Resource BW OU Viability Ranking, mk. 5

[Monai]

Welcome to the BW OU Viability Ranking thread. This thread contains a ranking of every viable Pokemon, separated in tiers to indicate power gaps. You may notice that they are not ranked alphabetically within their own subtiers; that is because every Pokemon is ranked within their subranks too. For example, if Latios and Ferrothorn are both S rank, but Latios is ranked higher than Ferrothorn, then Latios is the better one of the two.

Keep in mind that rankings are subjective and that your opinion is not a fact, but rather, you should use facts to support your opinions.

BW2 OU Ranking tier list V8

VR Explanation

S

S rank Pokemon are the best of the best and are usable in any team or structure. They define the metagame and no other Pokemon available can do what they do. They require no support to utilize and are capable of supporting teams extremely well. You are doing your opponent a favor by not using these Pokemon.

S-

S- rank Pokemon are similarly powerful compared to S Rank Pokemon, although they not have the same ability to be put onto any team or structure. Their effectiveness warrants their place on any team that appreciates their traits and they should be accounted for when building a team just as much as an S Rank Pokemon.

--------

A+

A+ ranked Pokemon are staples in the current metagame but their offensive/defensive presence is less notable than S rank Pokemon, yet one should consider them without hesitation when building. They are all capable in their own right, easy to use, and proficient in providing great support while requiring little to no support.

A

A Rank Pokemon are a less capable than A+ because they are either more limited in overall capabilities and roles or have exploitable flaws, but the team utility/function they provide can't be matched. They are all very capable offensively/defensively. A rank Pokemon may require support to work.

A-

A- rank Pokemon have glaring flaws but maintain unique capabilities that enable them to be large threats in the current meta, creating powerful offensive/defensive pairings. Pokemon in this rank will require support to be utilized properly.


--------

B+

B+ rank have a more specific function in the metagame that they are capable of fulfilling quite well. While they boast great capabilities, they require more support to work than A- rank Pokemon. These Pokemon are limited to specific roles/archetypes and/or require a lot of support to be utilized properly.

B

B rank Pokemon are far more limited in how they can be utilized, either fulfilling very specific roles, and requiring a lot of support to work well. Their success in their role is less of guarantee as well.

B-

B- rank Pokemon have obvious flaws with limited capabilities and are outclassed by higher ranked Pokemon. They fulfill very specific roles and are not easily put into a team. They are very hard to use and requires a LOT of team support.


--------

C

C rank Pokemon are viable, but you are probably better off trying another Pokémon than using these. They have unique niches and are usable on teams tailored to support them. C rank Pokemon can find success against certain match ups, but their success is not a guarantee.

S:
1. Latios
2. Tyranitar

S-:
3. Landorus-Therian
4. Ferrothorn
5. Excadrill

A+:
6. Alakazam
7. Keldeo
8. Starmie
9. Dragonite
10. Jirachi
11. Rotom-Wash
12. Politoed
13. Garchomp

A:
14. Thundurus-Therian
15. Skarmory
16. Reuniclus
17. Gliscor
18. Volcarona

A-:
19. Terrakion
20. Scizor
21. Latias
22. Mamoswine
23. Tentacruel
24. Heatran
25. Hippowdon

B+:
26. Celebi
27. Jellicent
28. Conkeldurr
29. Kyurem-Black
30. Magnezone
31. Clefable
32. Amoonguss
33. Abomasnow

B:
34. Breloom
35. Seismitoad
36. Slowbro
37. Blissey
38. Tornadus
39. Forretress
40. Xatu
41. Hydreigon
42. Slowking

B-:
43. Gastrodon
44. Gyarados
45. Bronzong
46. Salamence
47. Chansey
48. Cresselia

C:
49. Kyurem
50. Mew
51. Ninetales
52. Zapdos
53. Mienshao
54. Aerodactyl
55. Ditto
56. Victini
57. Tangrowth
58. Gengar
59. Alomomola

D:





Past VRs

Spoiler

May 2024

Spoiler

S:

1. Latios



S-:

2. Tyranitar

3. Landorus-Therian



A+:

4. Excadrill

5. Ferrothorn

6. Keldeo

7. Reuniclus



A:

8. Alakazam

9. Thundurus-Therian

10. Politoed

11. Skarmory

12. Gliscor

13. Jirachi

14. Garchomp

15. Dragonite

16. Starmie



A-:

17. Rotom-Wash

18. Tentacruel

19. Scizor

20. Mamoswine

21. Volcarona

22. Terrakion



B+:

23. Hippowdon

24. Breloom

25. Jellicent

26. Magnezone

27. Celebi

28. Latias

29. Clefable

30. Heatran

31. Kyurem-Black



B:

32. Abomasnow

33. Gastrodon

34. Tornadus

35. Slowbro

36. Blissey

37. Amoonguss

38. Gyarados

39. Forretress



B-:

40. Bronzong

41. Chansey

42. Conkeldurr

43. Mew

44. Slowking

45. Kyurem

46. Salamence

47. Seismitoad

48. Xatu

49. Aerodactyl

50. Hydreigon



C:

51. Ninetales

52. Cresselia

53. Zapdos

54. Ditto

55. Lucario

56. Victini

57. Tangrowth

58. Froslass

59. Rotom



D:















November 2022 Ranking

Spoiler

S:
1. Tyranitar
2. Latios

A+:
3. Gliscor
4. Ferrothorn
5. Landorus-T
6. Alakazam
7. Excadrill
8. Keldeo
9. Politoed

A:
10. Skarmory
11. Reuniclus
12. Thundurus-T
13. Tentacruel

A-:
14. Mamoswine
15. Rotom-W
16. Garchomp
17. Breloom
18. Dragonite
19. Volcarona
20. Heatran

B+:
21. Magnezone
22. Terrakion
23. Starmie
24. Gastrodon
25. Jirachi

B:
26. Scizor
27. Celebi
28. Jellicent
29. Cloyster
30. Latias

B-:
31. Seismitoad
32. Kyurem-B
33. Gyarados
34. Tornadus

C+:
35. Hippowdon
36. Mew
37. Xatu
38. Amoonguss
39. Salamence

C:
40. Slowbro
41. Abomasnow
42. Slowking
43 Kyurem
44. Ninetales
45. Forretress
46. Aerodactyl
47. Hydreigon

C-:
48. Chansey
49. Blissey
50. Cresselia
51. Milotic
52. Bronzong

D:

Hide

June 2022 Ranking

Spoiler

S:
1. Latios
2. Tyranitar
3. Ferrothorn

A+:
4. Alakazam
5. Landorus-T
6. Politoed
7. Thundurus-T
8. Gliscor
9. Excadrill
10. Tentacruel
11. Keldeo

A:
12. Skarmory
13. Reuniclus
14. Dragonite
15. Garchomp
16. Breloom
17. Volcarona
18. Mamoswine
19. Starmie

A-:
20. Jirachi
21. Rotom-W
22. Scizor
23. Cloyster
24. Heatran
25. Magnezone
26. Gastrodon
27. Jellicent
28. Terrakion


B+:
29. Kyurem-B
30. Gyarados
31 Tornadus
32. Latias
33. Celebi
34. Salamence
35. Seismitoad


B:
36. Abomasnow
37. Mew
38. Kyurem
39. Hippowdon
40. Xatu
41. Aerodactyl


B-:
42. Slowking
43. Weavile
44 Slowbro
45. Milotic
46. Amoonguss
47. Hydreigon
48. Chansey
49. Forretress
50. Ninetales
51. Blissey
52. Cresselia

C: (everything else)

Spoiler

Nov 2021 Ranking:

Spoiler

S:
1. Latios
2. Tyranitar
3. Ferrothorn

A+:
4. Landorus-T
5. Alakazam
6. Politoed
7. Gliscor
8. Excadrill
9. Thundurus-T
10. Keldeo
11. Tentacruel

A:
12. Garchomp
13. Reuniclus
14. Rotom-W
15. Breloom
16. Volcarona
17. Dragonite
18. Skarmory

A-:
19. Heatran
20. Magnezone
21. Mamoswine
22. Jirachi
23. Terrakion
24. Jellicent
25. Starmie
26. Scizor


B+:
27. Gastrodon
28. Tornadus
29. Kyurem-B
30. Latias
31. Celebi
32. Cloyster
33. Seismitoad
34. Kyurem

B:
35. Mew
36. Slowbro
37. Gyarados
38. Hippowdon
39. Xatu
40. Hydreigon
41. Slowking
42. Milotic
43. Salamence

B-:
44. Amoonguss
45. Ninetales
46. Chansey
47. Cresselia
48. Zapdos
49. Toxicroak
50. Gengar
51. Abomasnow

C: (everything else)

Spoiler

April 2021 Ranking:

Spoiler

S Rank:

Latios​

Ferrothorn​

Tyranitar​

Landorus-Therian​

A Rank:

A+

Excadrill​

Politoed​

Alakazam​

Keldeo​

Tentacruel​

Rotom-Wash​

Thundurus-Therian​

Garchomp​

​

A

Reuniclus​

Gliscor​

Breloom​

Magnezone​

Terrakion​

A-

Heatran​

Skarmory​

Jirachi​

Dragonite​

Jellicent​

Mamoswine​

Tornadus​

Kyurem-Black​

B Rank:

B+

Celebi​

Gastrodon​

Scizor​

Starmie​

Slowking​

Volcarona​

Latias​

​

B

Seismitoad​

Hydreigon​

Mew​

Milotic​

Slowbro​

Xatu​

Kyurem​

Gyarados​

B-

Amoonguss​

Mienshao​

Ninetales​

Cresselia​

Chansey​

Blissey​

Hippowdon​

Salamence​

Toxicroak​

Moltres​

Gengar​

Forretress​

Zapdos​

Abomasnow​

C Rank:

​

Cloyster​

Tangrowth​

Bronzong​

Aerodactyl​

Ditto​

Victini​

Alomomola​

Lucario​

Weavile​

Kingdra​

Metagross​

Azumarill​

Chandelure​

Sableye​

Liepard​

Riolu​

[/END SPOILER]​

Sand VR

S :

A+ :
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-:

Rain VR

S :

A+:
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-:

W-less VR

S :

A+ :
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-:

​

Thank you to Finchinator and ImZer0. Special thanks to Dybala jr for the VR banner.

 

[Typhlito]

Ctrl + F No Abomasnow



Otherwise, good list.

 

[Caetano93]

Show me replays with Abomasnow winning and i add it in the C rank.

 

[Eeveeto]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-485068

 

[Meridian]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ou-1162080035-3ezjq4vjyotpmc8dq0zs8l7mwvy1fb2pw

 

[toaster04]

No Garchomp S rank me sad.

But for real, he performs real well as a late game sweeper, literally cleans up the mess and gets the revenge your team needs to win the game. He definitely has potential for S rank due to his blistering Attack stat that gets even better when you use Swords Dance, but Chomp didn't need it. He can still become a potent threat, regardless of if it sets up or not.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ou-1120605437
Chomp being successful
If you skip to about Turn 16 then you'll see that he's a beast, but the beginning of the match is just me with my weird sets.

 

[apesh!t]

While garchomp is amazing and can fit on all of the “big 3” of team styles (sand balance/BO, rain offense, and weather less offense) it is not really a defining Pokémon or necessity on any of these. I’m no expert on how to determine what goes in which rank exactly but I think that warrants it an A+, especially since it at least has great competition for all of its sets. I do think it is the best offensive sr setter In the tier.

No Garchomp S rank me sad.

But for real, he performs real well as a late game sweeper, literally cleans up the mess and gets the revenge your team needs to win the game. He definitely has potential for S rank due to his blistering Attack stat that gets even better when you use Swords Dance, but Chomp didn't need it. He can still become a potent threat, regardless of if it sets up or not.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ou-1120605437
Chomp being successful
If you skip to about Turn 16 then you'll see that he's a beast, but the beginning of the match is just me with my weird sets.
[/QUOTE

 

[Caetano93]

S

S rank Pokemon are the best of the best and are usable in any team or structure. They define the metagame and no other Pokemon available can do what they do. They require no support to utilize and are capable of supporting teams extremely well. You are doing your opponent a favor by not using these Pokemon.


--------

A+

A+ ranked Pokemon are staples in the current metagame but their offensive/defensive presence is less notable than S rank Pokemon, yet one should consider them without hesitation when building. They are all capable in their own right, easy to use, and proficient in providing great support while requiring little to no support.

A

A Rank Pokemon are a less capable than A+ because they are either more limited in overall capabilities and roles or have exploitable flaws, but the team utility/function they provide can't be matched. They are all very capable offensively/defensively. A rank Pokemon may require support to work.

A-

A- rank Pokemon have glaring flaws but maintain unique capabilities that enable them to be large threats in the current meta, creating powerful offensive/defensive pairings. Pokemon in this rank will require support to be utilized properly.


--------

B+

B+ rank have a more specific function in the metagame that they are capable of fulfilling quite well. While they boast great capabilities, they require more support to work than A- rank Pokemon. These Pokemon are limited to specific roles/archetypes and/or require a lot of support to be utilized properly.

B

B rank Pokemon are far more limited in how they can be utilized, either fulfilling very specific roles, and requiring a lot of support to work well. Their success in their role is less of guarantee as well.

B-

B- rank Pokemon have obvious flaws with limited capabilities and are outclassed by higher ranked Pokemon. They fulfill very specific roles and are not easily put into a team. They are very hard to use and requires a LOT of team support.


--------

C

C rank Pokemon are viable, but you are probably better off trying another Pokémon than using these. They have unique niches and are usable on teams tailored to support them. C rank Pokemon can find success against certain match ups, but their success is not a guarantee,


Thank you FNH Arai DNNP for the help.

 

[galarian darmanitan]

S

S rank Pokemon are the best of the best and are usable in any team or structure. They define the metagame and no other Pokemon available can do what they do. They require no support to utilize and are capable of supporting teams extremely well. You are doing your opponent a favor by not using these Pokemon.

Why not exca in S? Sure its already top A+, but upon reading this S description I felt like exca kind of fits the bill.

Just look at this replay, exca susses out the scarftar, sits on a helmet skarm for days and denies it tons of hazards, comes in hazards multiple times without giving a f*ck, and haxed thru the skarm to seal the game

 

[Caetano93]

Why not exca in S? Sure its already top A+, but upon reading this S description I felt like exca kind of fits the bill.

Excadrill is in a raise in usage and utility in teams righ now and that is the reason he is the best A+ mon while in january (during SPL) he was behind Breloom. He is borderline S but i don't see him being broken like Latios or splashable in any team like ferro / lando to justify him in the S rank.

 

[galarian darmanitan]

Excadrill is in a raise in usage and utility in teams righ now and that is the reason he is the best A+ mon while in january (during SPL) he was behind Breloom. He is borderline S but i don't see him being broken like Latios or splashable in any team like ferro / lando to justify him in the S rank.

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Gamer1234556]

Yeah tbf Excadrill is kinda dependant on Sand to function at its best. I love using Excadrill and Sand is arguably the best weather, but the fact that it is reliant on it in order for it to be in its prime form kinda leaves it at the top of A+ rather than S.

 

[FNH]

Hmm, thinking about some suggested changes. This V/r is really good so I really only have one nitpick.

Sun teams are dead. Sun teams at the moment are MU fish's, memes, or someone who just wants to relieve stress by nuking something with CB Sun boosted Flare Blitz. Though I have seen some players attempt a Sun offense and even stall recently, its just not good and generally just gets punished by common archtypes. Sun teams are built around captilizing on the Sun but requiring such a bad mon to set it just hurts the whole styles's viability. I am going to argue that Ninetales needs to drop into the B- rank. What compels this arguement isn't as how bad I think the Sun is altogether but how bad Ninetales as an individual. The mon really can't do much in games and requires tremendous amounts of support to help it keep the Sun up. It stuggles to come in on a lot of stuff. Ground types are so good as well cause of Skarmory's massive suckitude at the moment (literally can't do anything vs the rain) which further hurts Ninetails (and Sun altogether). Ninetales isn't gonna make progress for the team or add defensive solidity to the team similar what, per say, a Defensive Politoed can do. I guess the most it can do is lead setting up the sun and grab a Wisp off the bat which is always nice. But once Stealth Rock is up, life is even harder for Ninetales. Well hazards in general really keep it from making any progress or coming in to set up the Sun. Its best MU seems to be vs the rain, given that it can easily come in on Ferrothorn who is basically a must for every Rain team (though once Sr is up its still gonna struggle to want to come in) and grab a Wisp, and Tentacruel's scald in the sun does like 19-24% if you are just max Hp so I guess that is an in for Ninetails. Vs Sand teams Ninetales is really not wanting to come in on much. Ferrothorn once again is obvious, same with Amoonguss though I dont think Ninetales wants to take a stun spore. I am just not seeing how Ninetales individually can do much in the current metagame. A drop to the B- seems appropriate given for the B- ranking you state "They are very hard to use and requires a LOT of team support." That sums up Ninetales predicament in the current meta.

 

[Caetano93]

September vr update.

Abomasnow: Unranked --> C

Although frail and weak to Stealth Rocks, it has decent offensive coverage with decent Stats to make for an ok anti-meta Pokémon versus DragMag and some Sand teams. Abomasnow has its flaws, such as being weak to all entry hazards coupled by mediocre stats. With this said it will be appropriate rank it as C because it is viable but requires a lot of support and isn’t guaranteed to work.

Ninetails and

Cresselia: B --> B-

Sun is my favorite Weather, but I must admit that the Sleep Ban hit it hard. Sure, one can MU fish a win or two, but Sand and Rain today have so many tools to break stall that Sun is not fun anymore to play. Ninetails was nominated for the drop as its only viable set is the defensive Ninetales. While defensive Nintales can work vs a no Magic Guard Sand, it’s useless vs the Rain and Magic Guard/Heatran Sand teams. Cresselia’s receiving a drop as well. It is only used in Sun builds (It’s the sole reason we try Sun Stall to be frank) and is a really poor fit into any other arche types/ styles. Given Ninetales and Sun are receiving a drop then it would follow that Cresselia would drop as well as Sun being less viable makes Cresselia less viable as well.


S/outs to FNH for the help with the GC.

 

[Caetano93]

Now that update is over i want to start some nominations:

First, i want to propose that

drop to A-. Jirachi fall from grace is something we are seeing since Excadrill usage rise sky rocket. It is mediocre at best in Sand and is very dificult to justify it in Rains nowadays as Thundurus-T have been using a lot of bulk for the Substitute set. It still have an awesome utility in DragMag / HO structures for a SR / Dragon check and for me is the sole reason it still isn't a B mon but the lack of tour usage or the sheer amount of team support it need made me think A- is a better slot for it now.


Secondly i think that we can swap

with

in the B+ rank. The reason for it is that Volcarona have the exact same team function and utility of Gyarados and Scizor (fearsome sweepers that can win the game alone with the correct MU) except that it have a better setup move. However, is really rare to find a game atm that gives this opportunity to the fire moth excluding a massive choke from the oponent. This makes me think the low B+ tier is where fits it best.
Hydreigon is a very fearsome Pokémon right now with it Specs Set (the only one that should be used tbf). It negates the low vitality of LO sets, maximizes it bulk for rain MUs and hits hard as a Specs Latios with no Pursuit drawback. It need more love as i have grabed a lot of tour wins this year because of him.


Thirdly i want to nominate

to drop to C rank. When was the last time we have see this Pokémon in a tour game doing something useful? I don't remember seeing it since 2018! It is awfull as an SR setter, have mediocre stats and is just a setup fodder for any mon of the game. Anything this dude can do, Forretres does better and the bagworm is not good per se...


Lastly i want so call that

go to the bottom of the B- rank. Nobody uses it. Nobody likes it. Amoonguss does everything this thing does but better. Having Knock Off and Leech Seed isn't a reason to use it over the gen mushroom becausethe tier have Toxic and protect everywere. Xatu, Hippo, Gengar and Moltres have been seeing tour usage (and tour wins) and they are bellow this bad mon...

 

[phosphor]

It seems like there's a big jump from A to A- where anything on A is very common but a lot of stuff in A- is well not uncommon but represent threats that you need to have answers for "just in case".

I second Jira's drop to A-, fuck Jira, but if it's dropping to the top of A- I propose Terrakion be right below it. Honestly, I don't have anything new to say about it, it just seems more destructive than the others in A-. Maaaaaaybe I can tweak a moveslot to cover a Mamoswine or something weakness but being weak to Terrakion is fatal.

No comment on Volc and Hydra, haven't been using them much recently. Zong's still a cut above shit like Zapdos and Mola to me so I think bottom of B- is fine.

I think Moltres being better than Tangrowth or Gengar or all the other stuff in B- constitutes a rise for it, and not dropping other stuff. Dare I say bottom of B? I see it significantly more than Ninetales now.

 

[FNH]

Just jumping on the Jirachi is a bad now train. It really has lost a lot of viability. The Spdef sets work best on some rain Breloom builds or on the bulky weatherless offense builds (with Breloom), but with Excadrill and Landorus being so good right now, its harder to chose Jirachi when selecting your six. Bulky Thundurus can set up on the uninvested sets max Spdef sets which is a huge blow to Jirachi, Ferrothorn doesnt fear much and can add a layer of spikes on Jirachi as well. The current meta isn't very nice to Jrachi at the moment, so a drop is quite true.

The Rock Gem sub set is really good, like really good. The beauty of it is how it punish's all these people (including myself) spamming protect. He is good in the current meta and helps shut down drag mag spams, rock gem Stone egde smacks Lando hard (with is more often then not, team's best swap into Terrakion, cause Latios doesn't want to take a Stone egde). Honestly Terrakion is and always has been a huge threat. His downside is his weakness to spikes and his poor resistances makes him harder to use but his offensive capabilities outweigh these weakness's. Moving him to the top of the A- rank I think is accurate as well.

<<-->> I agree that the Three Headed dragon (I swear tho, I first thought his other two heads were his hands) is a somewhat underrated at the moment. Hydreigon has some of the best coverage in the tier and poses a threat. Caetano is right with suggesting swapping Hydreigon for Volcarona, but I just want to emphasize what makes me support this is how much more consistent Hyrdreigon is. With Hydreigon's coverage, he can always pose a threat and is so hard to swap into (is he gonna Draco, is he gonna fire blast, is he gonna Focus Blast; you get what I mean). Volcarona on the other hand, well, you have two scenerio's: Volcarona gets the right MU and the Flaming Moth grabs the W, or you get a bad MU (the more common sceneriao) and you end up sacking the stupid thing.

I really think ground types are all just super good at the moment (Cause Skarmory low-key sucks vs the rain). I don't quite know what changes to the V/r I would recommend yet though. I just felt it necessary to quickly mention how good they all are at the moment. Mamo has flaws but the substitute set is really good (anything substitute is good lol). Ice STAB ruins Drag Mags, hits about everything hard. Draco Meteor Life Orb Chomper is so so good vs tradtional Ferrothorn/Rotom-W/Lando sand builds. He is just super threatening. Scarf Chomper + Magnezone is beast, but unfortunately is easily revenged by the ever so common Scarf Latios so thats a minus to him. I think Gliscor is terrific for these reasons: Bulky af, Poison heal broken, Skarm sucks, wide variety of sets (Knock off Sr, Taunt Toxic, SpDef SD roost). Talking about how good drill is would just be beating a dead horse, so he just super good (only real counter to sandforce drill is R Helmet Skarm).

 

[galarian darmanitan]

Draco Meteor Life Orb Chomper is so so good vs tradtional Ferrothorn/Rotom-W/Lando sand builds. He is just super threatening. Scarf Chomper + Magnezone is beast, but unfortunately is easily revenged by the ever so common Scarf Latios so thats a minus to him.

I feel like mixchomp is great rn. Not having to outrage lock and just getting to drop dracos and then switch out is a good feeling. Forces progress easily, not deadweight when burned, performs against lando and gliscor, doesn't need to lock itself in to use its nuke. I don't think highly about the other sets though.

-Scarf is only good on dragmag. Magnezone removes garchomp's defensive checks and makes it impossible for the other team to spike (which normally rip through chomp's bulk with % damage), and the insane damage other dragons do means that jolly scarf garchomp's damage issues are less apparent.

-Yache/lum SD is really threatening, but its easily revenge killed by lati twins, alakazam (if chomp got chipped by hazards or an attack coming, you can add the musketeers and rain attackers to the list too). Garchomp also can't dual dance to perform against faster teams/clean like terrakion/lando

-Mixchomp is easier to use and more reliable than physical dragon gem.

-I think terrakion or landorus can generally pull of chomp's non-mixed sets better. Terrakion has stab rock/fighting coverage, faster speed, and access to dual dance/priority/taunt. Lando has better defensive typing, intimidate, more attack stat, access to superpower/smackdown/dual dance/u turn/knock/gravity/explosion.

Edit:
Can someone explain toad's placing on the VR? I don't see it much on top500 ladder or in tourney replays and I was wondering what team kind of teams structures can benefit from it, and what kinds it gives trouble to.

 

[Icemann]

I don't have much to add to what has already been said, should for sure drop.

I do have things to say about the floating jirachi tho... I feel that zong is best on rain with loom, similar to jirachi on rain. The only real reason to use this over jirachi (again, a mon on the downturn rn) is levitate. Admittadly, levitate is huge because of how great landorus, exca, and gliscor etc are rn. However when you use a mon that has very little utility, less bulk, and less power, its just outclassed often times. Sure it has skill swap which can admittadly screw with stuff like reun/loom, but jirachi can easily just body slam/thunder para reun and iron head it to death. Jirachi can also wish, uturn, and also run literally any other type of set. When using bronzong, your most likely not going to run ferrothorn or another steel type because you are strapped for team slots, this ends up to your team often being latios weak. Lastly bronzong literally just sits their half the time, and is major set up bait. I feel zong should drop to C but at the top of it. I have tried zong+chans+spdef tenta, but not extensively, so maybe that could work?

Zong, zap, vic, ditto, weavile, cloyster should be the order IMO

I agree with phosphor that moltres should rise, rather than tangrowth falling

Edit:
Can someone explain toad's placing on the VR? I don't see it much on top500 ladder or in tourney replays and I was wondering what team kind of teams structures can benefit from it, and what kinds it gives trouble to.

Seismitoad is usually used on sand to help vs rain. Seismitoad is cool because it can run refresh and keep rocks in tentacruels face while threatening with EQ or burn. It also annoys opposing rotom w's. Basically it can rock, and annoy rain similar to gastro, it can also similarly pseudo annoy thundurus T. Has knock off too

 

[Ununhexium]

Yeah, I can't help but get on the drop Jirachi train. I can't really find myself using it outside of DragMag build and the occasional rain team, but Ferrothorn is almost always better there. This is especially true considering how good Ground-types are in the metagame right now. Its only really common / good sets are the SR + U-turn sets, no matter how good I want Sub + CM to be. It should probably drop to B+ / low A- rank

In a similar vein I think Heatran should drop to high A- rank. It just never feels like my go-to Steel-type for sand teams and it gets dunked on by most common Pokemon on rain, making it a tough choice to bring. It's also a Steel-type that doesn't resist Stealth Rock and is weak to Spikes, which isn't super great in this metagame. Its obviously still valuable as a Dragon resist, Ferrothorn counter, and bulky Steel-type that doesn't lose to Breloom, but it's just not as good as it once was.

This one is a little nitpicky, but I personally think that Ferrothorn should be just under Latios in S rank because it is on like every team, but that's just my personal opinion. I also still think Excadrill should be S rank for reasons I've mentioned before.

I'm also going to nominate Slowbro to not B+ rank. It's a Keldeo counter that loses to Keldeo and gets greased by every other common Pokemon on rain. It can't beat other Fighting-types like Breloom for obvious reasons and it gets smoked by SD + Rock Gem Terrakion. It also lets in Ferrothorn for free which is very not good. I feel like this is a Pokemon that was once good and was kind of just forgotten about in the viability rankings.

 

[Caetano93]

In a similar vein I think Heatran should drop to high A- rank. It just never feels like my go-to Steel-type for sand teams and it gets dunked on by most common Pokemon on rain, making it a tough choice to bring. It's also a Steel-type that doesn't resist Stealth Rock and is weak to Spikes, which isn't super great in this metagame. Its obviously still valuable as a Dragon resist, Ferrothorn counter, and bulky Steel-type that doesn't lose to Breloom, but it's just not as good as it once was.

I have used and tested Heatran builds recently and the molten mon is very decent atm. He is a very good solution to the SR in Sand problem since SR Ttar is so bad now and also free your Lando / Gliscor / ground mon to use other options. Also, Roar sets are so anoying to face now. Lowest A is a fine spot for me since it have a lot of flaws (being weak to spikes is nuts) but what makes it not an A- material is that no mon can Spikes up x him, making it not a momentum sucker.

This one is a little nitpicky, but I personally think that Ferrothorn should be just under Latios in S rank because it is on like every team, but that's just my personal opinion. I also still think Excadrill should be S rank for reasons I've mentioned before.

We use Ferrothorn on almost all builds because is the easiest solution to teams SR problems and also have a Spikes / Knock Off option. Latios is the top mon because he is nuts broken, Ttar because it is the best Lati answer and Lando because 99% of teams can use it. Ferro as the last S mon is ok for me since it is not a game breaker mon like the other 3 (although it is a very good mon).
I don't see Excadrill being S rank rn. It is good and all teams must have ways to deal with it but with Def Lando back in the meta and Thundy Rain being in rise I think top A+ is a nice spot for it now.

I'm also going to nominate Slowbro to not B+ rank. It's a Keldeo counter that loses to Keldeo and gets greased by every other common Pokemon on rain. It can't beat other Fighting-types like Breloom for obvious reasons and it gets smoked by SD + Rock Gem Terrakion. It also lets in Ferrothorn for free which is very not good. I feel like this is a Pokemon that was once good and was kind of just forgotten about in the viability rankings.

Slowbro never was a Keldeo check as it was always used with Amoonguss. It is a bulky mon option in regen cores to stop physical mons like Lando and Excadrill. A +0 / no Seed Bomb Breloom can't defeat it in the x1 because of Ice beam / Fire Blast / Psychic. With Fire Blast being it most common cover choice, Ferrothorn also can't defeat it or Spikes up. Even that it is not a good Pokémon atm, it is a lot better than the situational mons that we have at B.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

IMO, Slowking should rise to B rank. Unlike Slowbro, it is a true counter to Keldeo, and it has access to a pretty neat move, Dragon Tail. It can even invest in physical bulk to better check physical threats, such as Excadrill, and Landorus-Therian. Speaking of physical threats, they wouldn't like to deal with a scald burn. Slowking could even use an offensive set due to Nasty Plot, but I feel like it's already fine with Scald, Slack Off, Dragon Tail, and a 4th move depending on what your team, you could use Thunder Wave to cripple threats, Flamethrower for Pokemon such as Breloom, Ferrothorn, and Amoonguss, or Psyshock to mess with Pokemon with low physical defense such as Chansey, and even Tentacruel. Speaking of Tentacruel, Slowking has a decent matchup against rain, although it does have its issues against Thundurus-Therian and it tends to get Tricked/Draco Meteored by Latios. It also doesn't do the best against sand as it's pursuited by Tyranitar, volt switched by Rotom-Wash and u-turned by Pokemon such as Landorus-Therian and Scizor. I feel like it is one of, if not the best Pokemon on the VR that is ranked B- due to its special walling capabilities, and typing.

 

[galarian darmanitan]

Seeing a lot of drop rachi talk. Maybe not the thread for it, but thoughts on shuca sets on stuff like dragmag? Its pretty useful with high use of ground types.

-Spdf Shuca+Icy wind beats non-scarf lando 1v1 while still staying healthy enough to live double dracos from latios after the fact.

-Spdf Shuca+ Icy wind can also do well against roostless gliscor (you can live 2 eqs, after 1 icy wind ur always faster, you creep it if u really want, icy wind does like 50-60% uninvested)

-Shuca+U turn means that you can bring in balloon mag for free kills vs exca. With a sassy nature u can consistently trap slower excas. If he ever has exca out vs rachi and you still have your shuca+balloon you just kill him.

https://pokemonshowdown.com/users/bkcroadtotop
If any1 else has been laddering and played vs this account, he was farming wins with shuca rachi dragmag on high ladder. Its seen use on tourneys before too. I think rachi can adapt...

 

[FNH]

Seeing a lot of drop rachi talk. Maybe not the thread for it, but thoughts on shuca sets on stuff like dragmag? Its pretty useful with high use of ground types.

-Spdf Shuca+Icy wind beats non-scarf lando 1v1 while still staying healthy enough to live double dracos from latios after the fact.

-Spdf Shuca+ Icy wind can also do well against roostless gliscor (you can live 2 eqs, after 1 icy wind ur always faster, you creep it if u really want, icy wind does like 50-60% uninvested)

-Shuca+U turn means that you can bring in balloon mag for free kills vs exca. With a sassy nature u can consistently trap slower excas. If he ever has exca out vs rachi and you still have your shuca+balloon you just kill him.

https://pokemonshowdown.com/users/bkcroadtotop
If any1 else has been laddering and played vs this account, he was farming wins with shuca rachi dragmag on high ladder. Its seen use on tourneys before too. I think rachi can adapt...

Howdy! The talk about Jirachi isn't to do with that its completely unviable, its just that its current position in the metagame has been hurt because of good ground types are at the moment. Jirachi is still good and has seen roles on bulkier weatherless builds and rain (Finchinator vs Raiza SPL Semi Finals and Breloom Rain builds ), and lastly, like you mention, Drag Mag builds. Shuca Jirachi works quite well on Drag-mag style due to the sets ability to consistently get up rocks and grab early game momentum, which is what the Drag Mag style excells at: early pressure. The set though is a one trick wonder and it's rather flawed vs Excadrill. As far as Im aware Shuca Jirachi runs either SR/U-turn/Icy-Wind/Energy Ball or SR/U-turn/Icy-Wind/Thunder. Neither of these are really touching Excdrill who can spin and Earthquake it. Now, I did read your post and you do mention that Jirachi can U-turn on it on a Excadrill coming in on it so Balloon Magnezone can trap it. It's possible, and possibly the only redeeming factor to the set (escpecially it's slower burns its berry or eats - 1% from the spin, U-turns out so Magnezone gets in for free to KO, but this also can create space for a Latios to drop Draco's or scarf sets to sweep). Also if your opponent has a means to escape Magnezone (Worry Seed Ferrothorn, not entirely uncommon, or if Jirachi doesnt have t-bolt then an, albeit kinda rare, shedshell Skarmory just Spike stack it) then Shuca Jirachi becomes a momentum kill. Drag Mag as a whole though seems a bit hurt due to scarf Latios becoming more and more common as well. Well I don't think Jirachi is adapting to the current metagame with the shuca set, given that the set is old. Players have been using it on Drag Mag builds for a while now. Sets on Jirachi are viable and it has some good base stats and useful resistances, but given the prevelance of ground types Jirachi is just super limited in how well it can perform in the current meta.

 

[Caetano93]

October vr update.

A --> A-

Jirachi’s overall viability in the current metagame has diminished greatly. Given how good ground types are at the moment and that Thundurus’s substitute can tank a Body Slam from SpDef Jirachi, it is not hard to see why. While Jirachi has all but vanished from Sand builds, it maintains useful roles on bulky Weatherless builds and Drag Mags with its SpDef Jirachi and Lead Shuca set respectively. The more niche Substitute sets has been used to garner wins as well. So Jirachi is still useful, but given the previous reasons a drop is warranted.

B- --> C

When was the last time Bronzong won a tour game? 2 years ago? More niche mons, like Gengar and Forretress, have seen a better win rate in tour games then Bronzong. Brongzong is countered by common mons that are typically used to counter the ever so common, Excadrill, further hurting Bronzong’s viability. The lack of good recovery, mediocre stats don’t help it either. It also suffers from 4 move slot syndrome as well. To add to all its cons, Bronzong is also just free Spikes for Ferrothorn as well, making the floating bell worse than Zapdos. With all this against it, a drop to C is certainly warranted.

B- --> B

I was not entirely sure about how to place Slowking as discussions about it appeared in BW chats (BW OU Hub and the BW Discord server) over the past month. BKC really is responsible for the discussion, making valid points on Slowking’s overall utility and how to utilize it. Its typing, coverage, and regenerator make it far more viable than Milotic. While I personally see Seismitoad as a more viable option here, low B is a good ranking for Slowking as of now. Future rises are possible.

<< >>

With sleep banned, Tangrowth lost a lot of viability in the current meta and has yet to adapt as the metagame moves forward. Its obscene defensive bulk with the Rocky Helmet is still able to maintain some usefulness but Physically Defensive Amoonguss plays a very similar role and is a better option in the current metagame. Moltres on the other hand is actually quite viable. Though it still needs plenty of support, Moltres has been seeing moderate success on rain teams, and currently has more tour usage then Gengar and Hippowdown. With that said, it’s fair to swap their places on the ranking.

<< >>

Both Volcarona and Hydreigon are good, though their roles are far different. The consistency of Hydreigon alongside his versatility is what makes me think that their spots on the ranking should be swapped. Volcarona is always gambling on MU’s ("Should I use HP Ground? Should I use HP Ice? Should I use Giga Drain?” either way, you end up regretting not bringing one). The Flaming Moth either wins or loses at the preview. Hydreigon though, with his insane movepool, can always make an impact on the game. Given the discrepancy in the consistency between these two mons, I find it fit to swap their places on the ranking.

S/outs to FNH for the help with the GC.