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Lati@s in OU??

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I find it somewhat odd to suggest Safeguard as a standard for a potential Lati@s OU moveset, considering you absolutely never see it anywhere else. Safeguard is not bad at all, certainly not a lot different than Reflect/LS, it just seems a bit weird is all! In a smilar vein, both Latis can learn Psycho Shift.

da gold sun said:
this is assuming you're up against a Latias with weird EVs when it should have a lot in SAtk.
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Latias is more of a support pokémon and I would not be surprised if it ran highly defensive EVs. It may even Charm a switch-in and make everything but Metagross look stupid. I'm not saying it can't be used as a heavy special attacker, but typically that's when a person will just use Latios instead. Latias learns Wish/Charm and its base stats lean more defensively in the first place, making it a fantastic support pokémon that can switch in on a ton of stuff with its resists and huge stat total if it's used in this manner.

Drakhun said:
latis are still OHKO'd by STAB physical ice/dragon moves.
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So that's what, Weavile and Scarfchomp? Big selection there. Salamence is outsped and its physical sets are either CB or require setup (DD) so it's mostly irrelevant.

Gandalf the blue said:
scarfchomp with 196 Sdef EVs survives a 350 Satk Dragon pulse 100% of the time.
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It would've been easier if you had just said "Scarfchomp does not survive Lati@s Dragon Pulse" or been like everyone else and assumed it true in the first place. Scarfchomp never has that many Sdf EVs, let alone all other Garchomp sets which dump way more into Speed.
 
have you ever seen a DD, dragon claw, roost and safeguard dragonite?
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No, since Dragonite doesn't have 110 Special Defense and a total lack of 4x weaknesses or a lack of a Rock weakness. What an awful comparison.
 
CB-mamoswine ice shard does have a chance to OHKO Latios btw.
And my calcs were wrong, to survive Latias DP you need 84 Sdef EVs
And thats imo possible, it could survive some random ice beams aswell.
Maybe we would see an increase in CB-dusknoir^^

@Mekhak: great deal to compare the only two weaknesses against one other, if it has 5 -.-
And this set could switch out safely, while Latias can´t.
But you are right that they would easily be top tier.
Why is CB-Heracross no uber? Every team needs to pack Gliscor/Weezing just for him. All other Pokemon that could kill him are killed whyle they switch in.

mfg
 
Basic Bold Blissey set can wall specs Latios/Latias

I did some calculations at metal kid

Speced Draco Meteor on Bold blissey:

Defender HP: 714
Damage: 292-344
Damage %: 40.90%-48.18%
 
This is the poke and set I'd feel the giddiest using:

Latios@Life Orb ** did you forget
Ability: Levitate
EVs: (60 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe)
Nature: Adamant
~ Dragon Claw
~ Dragon Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Recover

The speed is to outpace scarfchomp guaranteed after a DD (even those that max speed instead of running the standard 296). because i can and i want to, i'm going to post some numbers without stating my position

For some numbers: (oh, the nostalgia...)

Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 342HP/256Def (4EVs/min) Tyranitar: 98-115%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 282HP/176Def (4EVs/min) Weavile: 103-121%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 688HP/130Def (fair/min) Blissey: 57-67%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 364HP/336Def (max/min) Registeel: 70-83%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 364HP/299Def (max/12EVs) CB Metagross: 78-93%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 327HP/186Def (fair/min) Scarfcross: 84-99%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 357HP/226Def (min/min) Scarfchomp: 127-151%

These are all standards, of course. The biggest issue is with Blissey, since it's the normal switch in to a pokemon with 130 Base SpA and will likely try to status it with either twave or sing. I'm not sure that makes Safeguard or Psycho Shift over Recover the best option, though, since Recover allows you to get your HP back against Skarmory. Latios can, with a non-hindering SpA Nature and shifting those 100 HP EVs to SpA for 324 SpA, do 53-67% with Draco Meteor, which would murder Hippowdon and Gliscor, but neither of those can really do anything about you using Recover unless you're worried about Roar Hippo. Maybe Thunderbolt for Skarmory, which would do 97-115%...blah blah this is funny since it's not like it's certain we'll allow Lati@s anyway.

I'm going to keep typing to say that I may run Psycho Shift for Blissey and Cresselia since in the case of the former, this is how it would go down: they switch to Latios and Latios DD, Latios DDs again as Blissey uses Thunderwave. But, for some more numbers: 304 × 2 / 4 = 152. Blissey's standard speed is 147. So after two DD, Latios is still faster than Blissey, and has a 25% of Shifting the paralysis to it as it tries to Toss or IB. And:

Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, twice-Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 688HP/130Def (fair/min) Blissey: 76-90%
Bold, 212 SpA Blissey using Ice Beam on a 326HP/256SpD (fair/min) Latios: 35-42%

And Latios will strike right after using Psycho Shift, which has as good of chance of FPing Latios before it can do that as it does to FP Blissey. All in all there's a pretty good shot at taking her out with a mere 50% HP of harm when you factor in the 10% recoil damage. Cresselia gets Psycho Shifted too though its IB is a 2HKO on Latios. So unless people would actually start using Jolly Scarfchomp, this Latios is a pokemon that trashes its normal revenge killers and usual counters alike, save Bronzong and Cresselia.

hey look at all those words
 
Jumpman16 said:
This is the poke and set I'd feel the giddiest using:

Latios@Life Orb ** did you forget
Ability: Levitate
EVs: (100 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe)
Nature: Adamant
~ Dragon Claw
~ Dragon Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Recover

The speed is to outpace scarfchomp guaranteed after a DD (even those that max speed instead of running the standard 296). because i can and i want to, i'm going to post some numbers without stating my position

For some numbers: (oh, the nostalgia...)

Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 342HP/256Def (4EVs/min) Tyranitar: 98-115%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 282HP/176Def (4EVs/min) Weavile: 103-121%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 688HP/130Def (fair/min) Blissey: 57-67%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 364HP/336Def (max/min) Registeel: 70-83%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 364HP/299Def (max/12EVs) CB Metagross: 78-93%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 327HP/186Def (fair/min) Scarfcross: 84-99%
Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 357HP/226Def (min/min) Scarfchomp: 127-151%

These are all standards, of course. The biggest issue is with Blissey, since it's the normal switch in to a pokemon with 130 Base SpA and will likely try to status it with either twave or sing. I'm not sure that makes Safeguard or Psycho Shift over Recover the best option, though, since Recover allows you to get your HP back against Skarmory. Latios can, with a non-hindering SpA Nature and shifting those 100 HP EVs to SpA for 324 SpA, do 53-67% with Draco Meteor, which would murder Hippowdon and Gliscor, but neither of those can really do anything about you using Recover unless you're worried about Roar Hippo. Maybe Thunderbolt for Skarmory, which would do 97-115%...blah blah this is funny since it's not like it's certain we'll allow Lati@s anyway.

I'm going to keep typing to say that I may run Psycho Shift for Blissey and Cresselia since in the case of the former, this is how it would go down: they switch to Latios and Latios DD, Latios DDs again as Blissey uses Thunderwave. But, for some more numbers: 304 × 2 / 4 = 152. Blissey's standard speed is 147. So after two DD, Latios is still faster than Blissey, and has a 25% of Shifting the paralysis to it as it tries to Toss or IB. And:

Adamant, 306 Atk Latios using a Life Orb, twice-Dragon Danced Dragon Claw on a 688HP/130Def (fair/min) Blissey: 76-90%
Bold, 212 SpA Blissey using Ice Beam on a 326HP/256SpD (fair/min) Latios: 35-42%

And Latios will strike right after using Psycho Shift, which has as good of chance of FPing Latios before it can do that as it does to FP Blissey. All in all there's a pretty good shot at taking her out with a mere 50% HP of harm when you factor in the 10% recoil damage. Cresselia gets Psycho Shifted too though its IB is a 2HKO on Latios. So unless people would actually start using Jolly Scarfchomp, this Latios is a pokemon that trashes its normal revenge killers and usual counters alike, save Bronzong and Cresselia.

hey look at all those words
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Forgot to put Skarmory there(ok,it isn't a Revenge Killer...but walls him like it walls many physical Dragons(save,maybe,Fire Punch Dragonite)).If i choose to make a physical Latios,my choice would be...

Latios@Life Orb
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Thunderbolt/Waterfall
Recover

Walled by Magnezone/Steelix with TB,Empoleon walls with Waterfall
Let's not forget that Dragonite has the better movepool of all the Dragons...give him a base 100 speed and he's almost Uber.:naughty:
 
Duh, that slipped my mind. This topic is like saying a Dexoys Speed with a Lagging Tail is okay in OU. If you start questioning the Lati's soon people will start questioning Manafi and all the other meh ubers. They are too good. Testing will not do any harm, but I still say it is a waste of time because in the end an uber is an uber no matter how much you mess with it.
 
So what you are saying is that if the twins are allowed in OU we need to start carrying Shuckle to counter them. Wow. Gengar has been a problem for them since the beggining.
 
blastoiselover100 said:
Duh, that slipped my mind. This topic is like saying a Dexoys Speed with a Lagging Tail is okay in OU. If you start questioning the Lati's soon people will start questioning Manafi and all the other meh ubers. They are too good. Testing will not do any harm, but I still say it is a waste of time because in the end an uber is an uber no matter how much you mess with it.
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That's pokemon:learn to counter everything.One or two Ubers isn't "lol gg"for everything.A skilled battler will overcome them.If you're not skilled,then why you're in Smogon?
 
The same as there is a clause like Doble Team, or OHKO moves, there could be other which doesn't allow to use Soul Dew or which desactivates it's effects, the same as in the Battle Tower.
 
BrazilianDragonite said:
That's pokemon:learn to counter everything.One or two Ubers isn't "lol gg"for everything.A skilled battler will overcome them.If you're not skilled,then why you're in Smogon?
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But they have stats that are too good for the OU tier. How do you counter something that is too good for something else. That is like saying if you try hard enough, SpecsVenomoth counters Dialga.
 
I'm agreeing with Latias, it did okay in the battles I've used him, and is no way uber without soul dew, Latios is a bit more dangerous, and would be a top tier Ou.
 
Latias is reasonable seeing how it has the same bas Satk as Mence. It would just be a faster version of Specsmence pretty much. Latios, on the other hand, is too good.
 
ahaha,

What if I run MixMence, and both of the Lati@s? Can your team handle 2 very proficient Mixed Dragon attackers and a very durable CMer with just one Blissey? You guys forget that allowing both of them allows for them all to be used on the same team. No standard team can handle that without multiples of Cresselia, Blissey, Bronzong, and Registeel.

Basically, allowing the Lati@s in Standard switches the metagame to consisting of ultraslow mixed Steel walls and Lati@s and things faster than them.
 
"Let's allow Deoxys-FR in NU!"
"No way he's way too good."
"I know! Let's make anyone using him require a defensive set!"
"Great idea!"

This is basically what you are doing. Also as previously stated you can't counter Mixmence, CMLatias, and SpecsLatios all on one team without overcentralization.
 
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