(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Celever]

Man I remember like, nothing of the Drake episode at all.
It's kind of funny that Dragonite was shown as a huge deal that late into the run considering how many Dragonites they'd run into by that point up to and including the goofy delivery dragonite

I always thought the goofy postman Dragonite was so cool as a kid because it’s the most human that a Pokémon ever got, which ties into the “ultra-powerful” thing. Metagross is basically only a pseudo-legendary because of its intelligence, so I’ve always thought that even pseudo-legendaries who have a low Special Attack stat are nearer to humans than other Pokémon.

Granted, as the roster of Pokémon has continued to increase so too has the anthropomorphism of them. Passimian plays rugby after all, while being a regular Pokémon species. And Oranguru trains other Pokémon just as a human does. Thinking about it, those two could have been mythicals or pseudo-legendaries and I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid for exactly this reason.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

Man I remember like, nothing of the Drake episode at all.

Drake’s Dragonite convinced me for years that there was no four-move rule in the anime, and had me wondering why Pikachu didn’t seem to ever use Agility/Thunder/whatever anymore. I know they’ve fudged that rule other times, but it was the most obvious about it.

(Yes, I know now that they did it intentionally to make Dragonite seem extra powerful.)

Come to think of it, the anime mostly sticking to the four-move rule is itself a little thing that annoys me. The anime isn’t strictly bound by game mechanics. Pokemon that have learned a lot of interesting moves over the years, like Ash’s Charizard, should be allowed to just let loose.

 

[Worldie]

Drake’s Dragonite convinced me for years that there was no four-move rule in the anime, and had me wondering why Pikachu didn’t seem to ever use Agility/Thunder/whatever anymore. I know they’ve fudged that rule other times, but it was the most obvious about it.

(Yes, I know now that they did it intentionally to make Dragonite seem extra powerful.)

Come to think of it, the anime mostly sticking to the four-move rule is itself a little thing that annoys me. The anime isn’t strictly bound by game mechanics. Pokemon that have learned a lot of interesting moves over the years, like Ash’s Charizard, should be allowed to just let loose.

The anime has only started to ""stick"" to the games rules relatively recently.

Expecially in the first couple series, it doing its own stuff was pretty standard.
I mean, to this day we still meme of Pikachu hitting Brock's pokemon with electric attacks...

While I do agree that sticking to "game rules" is somewhat weird, expecially as why would a pokemon with a million IQ like Alakazam only be able to remember only 4 moves?, but I believe they're doing it in order to make people more comfortable in passing to the actual games later on.
Which makes sense because in the end business is business.

 

[R_N]

Probably a constraint they stick to for writing (sometimes limits are good and, if nothing else, would encourage using other pokemon) and animation purposes. Easier to reuse animation frames by continually sticking with the same 4 attacks for [period of time here], especially early on in the series



Also realistically you'd probably go a long time between seeing moves anyway. Like if Pikachu had like 12 moves I guarantee you'd probably see maybe 5 of them frequently and everyone would be writing up screeds going "ugh how could they not use That Move for this" and "its been 50 episodes since This Move was used".

 

[Pikachu315111]

The anime has only started to ""stick"" to the games rules relatively recently.

Expecially in the first couple series, it doing its own stuff was pretty standard.
I mean, to this day we still meme of Pikachu hitting Brock's pokemon with electric attacks...

While I do agree that sticking to "game rules" is somewhat weird, expecially as why would a pokemon with a million IQ like Alakazam only be able to remember only 4 moves?, but I believe they're doing it in order to make people more comfortable in passing to the actual games later on.
Which makes sense because in the end business is business.

Actually they usually stuck to game rules, but they had the artistic license to "twist the rules" if the story called for it.

Pikachu only damaged Ground-types due to special ways: Against Brock's Geodude was because it got supercharged, Brock's Onyx was because it got wet, and against Blaine's Rhydon was because it aimed for the horn (which is now hilarious in hindsight because of Lightning Rod but Abilities didn't exist back then). I think another time Pikachu shocked a Rhydon by shocking it directly in its mouth. And shocking the Golem in the first movie was them just not really thinking and the remake swapped the Golem for another non-Ground-type.

As for why would a Pokemon only know 4 moves, it may not be the Pokemon can't remember more but rather it's just official battling rules. Pokemon League says a Pokemon can only use four moves, hence most trainers probably only focusing on their Pokemon using four moves even if their Pokemon knows others. "But in the Orange Island Drake's Dragonite used 10 moves"! Yes, but the Orange Island was all about the trainer either using their Pokemon's skills for challenges other than battling (shooting targets, water race, making & racing an ice sled) or having unique battling rules (double battle before it was officially introduced, mirror matches); Drake's Dragonite having 10 moves may have just been a unique battling rule.

 

[Zetalz]

The fact they never released the soundtrack for Pokemon Generations still hurts me to this day. How fucking dare they keep all those sick remixes to themselves! The choir in the weather trio theme and the violin in Deoxys' theme is so goddamn good it's criminal that it never got released.

 

[DreamPrince]

The fact they never released the soundtrack for Pokemon Generations still hurts me to this day. How fucking dare they keep all those sick remixes to themselves! The choir in the weather trio theme and the violin in Deoxys' theme is so goddamn good it's criminal that it never got released.

To be fair, a lot of Japanese companies don’t release their soundtracks digitally, preferring to release it via CDs, and in Japan only, despite being an ITunes/Apple Music/Spotify era. Kind of annoying since there a lot of soundtracks from video games that I love but I can’t really listen to on the go, which is unfortunate. Not sure why, but it might be because of tradition, which is huge in Japanese culture.

That’s where Pokémon does differently! It wasn’t until 2012 when they started to release their albums for their games, but as of now I believe every song that was in the core games prior to SwSh can be brought from ITunes. Keep in mind that enhanced versions tend to have songs in future albums, for example, songs from Platinum and Emerald are in BW2 album rather than the original paired versions.

Other than that, the only other game I can think of that did an ITunes release of their soundtrack was Kirby: Planet Robobot. Special mention goes to Super Mario Odyssey and Fire Emblem: Three Houses, as they did release their Themes songs on ITunes. Odyssey also has a Sound Selection on ITunes as well. With the Three Houses original soundtrack coming out soon, I’m hoping that they do a digital release of their soundtrack, since Three Houses has some great songs.

Anyway, back to point, if there’s anything Pokémon does right is that they release their games songs on digital albums, that’s something I hope rubs off on other companies.

 

[R_N]

Note that the Pokemon iTunes releases are just limited to the games*. There was an anime soundtrack released a while back, I think during the gen 5 era? Maybe 6? Definitely covered gens 1-4 of the anime, though. Anyway, I don't believe that ever hit iTunes/etc.

The anime soundtracks in particular are really slim, though. The collection I mentioned earlier is the only thorough release. Any other releases are just selections, usually just the early tracks for that season or a collection of character themes, or are just singles of the openings/endings. So Generations will probably rot for a long, long time.

 

[Codraroll]

Answering this here because it did not belong in the other thread.

Codraroll regarding your thoughts on "token representations" I'm interested about your opinion on the representations in Alola. It feels as if some of the reps are actually alolan forms. (Ice, Steel, and Dark come to mind here) and a few ones that seem unclear. So I was curious about what you thought here.

The Alola dex is an interesting example. As you point out, certain types seem to lack representation at all if the Alolan forms are disregarded. Conversely, the Alolan forms seem very concentrated around very few types. Two thirds of the 18 forms are Dark- Ice, and/or Steel-types, and two thirds of the rest are Electric. Apart from legendaries and Ultra Beasts, these types are all quite under-represented in the Alola Dex. Alola has two Dark-types (Incineroar and Guzzlord), once Ice-type (Crabominable), one non-legendary Steel-type (Togedemaru - plus seven legendaries/mythicals/Ultra Beasts, but those rarely count), and three-and-a-quarter Electric types (Charjabug, Vikavolt, Togedemaru, and Oricorio-Pom-Pom). It's probably no coincidence that the excesses among one group fits so neatly into the deficiencies of the other.

I suspect LGPE plays a key role here. The aforementioned types are also under-represented in Gen I. It seems like Game Freak had plans for the Alolan forms to fill in the typing gaps in both those regional dexes. The regional forms served as Dark-, Ice-, Steel-, and Electric-type representatives for both Alola and Kanto (and also Ghost and Dragon to a lesser degree). It was also a move that allowed them to keep the size of the Alola dex very small, to avoid that dreaded day when 1000 Pokémon fill the national dex.

Because the Alola dex is ridiculously small. If you exclude every Pokémon under the big "Legendary" umbrella term, it's just 61 Pokémon (64 if you count the Oricorio forms separately). I'm a little uncertain of the role of legendaries when it comes to type representation, but I personally suspect they don't count. The legendaries are presumably designed independently of the typing needs of the regional Pokédex, and they tend to arrive too late to be of much use in the main story anyway. I think the mentality is to make every type available before the legendaries arrive. Using Alolan forms to cover a few types to, reduce the number of new Pokémon with unique dex identifiers, gave them the opportunity to create a crapton of legendary-ish Pokémon, hence the whole UB debacle.

I'm not sure in which order this happened, however. Were the Alolan forms designed to fit Kanto's needs first, and then determined to give sufficient representations of their types for the Alola dex, or was an Alola dex created first and then their native Dark/Steel/Ice/Electric-types scrapped/retyped when the Alola forms entered the picture, to make room for more Pokémon of other types? Either way, it's probably no coincidence at all that so few new Pokémon in Gen VII exhibit the types that are so commonly found among the Alolan forms. I'm not sure if I'd consider any of the Alolan forms "token" representatives, since there are multiple families of each type after all, but they were certainly considered sufficient representation that the Alola dex didn't need any further families of those types.

 

[Kurona]

I suspect LGPE plays a key role here. The aforementioned types are also under-represented in Gen I. It seems like Game Freak had plans for the Alolan forms to fill in the typing gaps in both those regional dexes. The regional forms served as Dark-, Ice-, Steel-, and Electric-type representatives for both Alola and Kanto (and also Ghost and Dragon to a lesser degree).

I’m glad you brought this up because it’s something I believed for a long time about Mega Evolutions too. Charizard-X, Gyarados and Ampharos’ added types are ones that are very much underrepresented if not non-existant in their respective dexes. While it’s something people wanted for a long time and a no-brainer with a super form gimmick that can change types applied to popular Pokémon, I always found it interesting that Charizard now brought the Dragon-type count in Kanto up to 2. With how restrictive that region’s types were up to that point it felt like a huge deal!

 

[Pikachu315111]

Speaking of LGPE, here's a little annoyance I have with it concerning the Master Trainers: no Legendary battles. Like, I get why no Ditto battle, but there's no reason to exclude the Legendaries. Here, I'll make some quick movesets:

Legendary One-On-One

Articuno (Level 75):
Moves: Sky Attack, Ice Shard, Reflect, Mirror Coat
AI Strategy: First set up Reflect, than mostly use Sky Attack. When player's Articuno HP is low use Ice Shard. If player's Articuno keeps using Special Moves, switch to using Mirror Coat.

Zapdos (Level 75):
Moves: Thunderbolt, Thunder, Hyper Beam, Light Screen
AI Strategy: First set up Light Screen, than mostly use Thunderbolt. If player's Zapdos outdamages it will switch to using Thunder. When player's Zapdos's HP is low enough will try a Hyper Beam.

Moltres (Level 75):
Moves: Air Slash, Hyper Beam, Fire Spin, Light Screen
AI Strategy: First sets up Light Screen, then uses Fire Spin, and from there focuses on Air Slash. When player's Moltres's HP is low enough will try a Hyper Beam.

Mewtwo (Level 80):
Moves: Shadow Ball, Foul Play, Barrier, Disable
AI Strategy: First uses Barrier. If player's Mewtwo used a super effective Special Move, will use Disable. If player's Mewtwo doesn't increase its Special Defense, will use Shadow Ball. If player's Mewtwo does increase Special Defense, uses Foul Play.

Mew (Level 80):
Moves: Megahorn, Dark Pulse, Will-O-Wisp, Light Screen
AI Strategy: First uses Will-O-Wisp. If fails to Will-O-Wisp and player's Mew uses a Physical move will try to Will-O-Wisp again. If player's Mew uses a Special move uses Light Screen. If player's Mew doesn't increase its Defense will use Megahorn. If player's Mew does increase its Defense will use Dark Pulse.

Meltan (Level 75):
Moves: Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Acid Armor
AI Strategy: First uses Thunder Wave. If player's Meltan uses a Physical move will use Acid Armor. Otherwise will keep using Thunderbolt.

Melmetal (Level 80):
Moves: Earthquake, Superpower, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave
AI Strategy: First uses Thunder Wave, than mostly use Earthquake. If player's Melmetal outdamages it will switch to using Superpower. If it's Attack has been lowered to -4 stages will switch to using Thunderbolt.

 

[Codraroll]

I’m glad you brought this up because it’s something I believed for a long time about Mega Evolutions too. Charizard-X, Gyarados and Ampharos’ added types are ones that are very much underrepresented if not non-existant in their respective dexes. While it’s something people wanted for a long time and a no-brainer with a super form gimmick that can change types applied to popular Pokémon, I always found it interesting that Charizard now brought the Dragon-type count in Kanto up to 2. With how restrictive that region’s types were up to that point it felt like a huge deal!

It's an interesting observation, for sure, but it hasn't been very consequential yet. Megas were a thing in LGPE, of course, but it doesn't seem to be a mechanic Game Freak intends to keep around, so I'm not sure if it will get the potential to impact Johto. The only game with a Kanto-limited dex and Mega Charizard also features Alolan Exeggutor, bringing the total number of Dragon-type families in Kanto to 3.

 

[hjyboy1218]

1. Ice types are obtained so late in the game. I recently decided to play platinum, and wanted to get a snover for my team since I had taken a liking to it because of its unique typing and ability. So where do you get it? After the 6th gym. Not wanting to wait that long, I used a randomizer to switch turtwig with it and had a good time playing with it so early. Also, Spheal in emerald. A unique ice/water type with good bulk that is only available right before the 7th gym. Needless to say, I swapped it with Mudkip and again, had a good time. But seriously, make ice-type pokemon available earlier. Even a trade would be nice.

2. Hidden Abilities being, y'know, hidden. Want to use a skill link cloyster or(Apparently skill link is cloyster's secondary ability, not its hidden one.) a technician breloom on your team? Too bad! You'll have to use some pretty convoluted methods, depending on what game you play.

3. Trade evolutions. Seriously, this mechanic is so outdated and the reason I play emulators and ROM hacks so much.

 

[MegaFlareon]

1. Ice types are obtained so late in the game. I recently decided to play platinum, and wanted to get a snover for my team since I had taken a liking to it because of its unique typing and ability. So where do you get it? After the 6th gym. Not wanting to wait that long, I used a randomizer to switch turtwig with it and had a good time playing with it so early. Also, Spheal in emerald. A unique ice/water type with good bulk that is only available right before the 7th gym. Needless to say, I swapped it with Mudkip and again, had a good time. But seriously, make ice-type pokemon available earlier. Even a trade would be nice.

2. Hidden Abilities being, y'know, hidden. Want to use a skill link cloyster or a technician breloom on your team? Too bad! You'll have to use some pretty convoluted methods, depending on what game you play.

3. Trade evolutions. Seriously, this mechanic is so outdated and the reason I play emulators and ROM hacks so much.

Skill Link Cloyster is a regular ability. Another example would be obtaining something like Sheer Force Nidoqueen/king on your playthrough. I'd agree with trade evolutions though, it's annoying when you don't have nearby trusted friends who play the same Pokémon games that you have.

 

[hjyboy1218]

Skill Link Cloyster is a regular ability

Huh, really? None of the shellder i fished up had it, so I assumed it was a hidden one. Guess my luck just sucks.

it's annoying when you don't have nearby trusted friends who play the same Pokémon games that you have

Or in some cases, having friends who play Pokemon games at all. I swear none of my friends in a 5-kilometer radius of me play pokemon.

 

[hjyboy1218]

Some additions:
4. Every pseudo-legendary being Dragon-type. The only exceptions are Tyranitar and Metagross, but since Tyranitar looks like a dragon-type and learns Dragon Dance, Metagross is practically the only exception. We need more non-dragon type pseudo-legendaries. Volcarona could have been one, since it actively screams pseudo-legendary with its majestic, flaming wings and having a signature move in Fiery Dance, but we got Hydreigon instead.
5. Boss battle hax.
"Now, we need to make this boss battle challenging, but not have any actual strategy. Got any ideas?"
"How about Double Team/Attract/An OHKO move?"
"Perfect!"
Everyone likes boss battles to be challenging, but in the sense that the enemy uses actual strategy, not stupid hax. For example, Flannery having her Torkoal hold a white herb to use with Overheat, or Tate&Liza's Xatu setting up Sunny day to power up Solrock's flamethrower and have it use Solarbeam in one turn is good, challenging strategy. However, having Flannery's Torkoal use attract and Juan's Kingdra, Wallace's Ludicolo and countless others use Double Team is simply not fun, and is just unfair hax. I'd like to see some real strategy in boss battles, like a flame orb Conkeldurr or a toxic orb Gliscor.
6. The route 1 normal type being 'bad'. The early-game bug types have largely escaped this curse, (just look at leavanny, scolipede, vikavolt, and orbeetle!) but the route 1 normal types still suck. Raticate, Furret, Linoone, Bibarel, Patrat, Diggersby, Gumshoos, Greedent... you'll be hard-pressed to find them on anyone's hall of fame. True, gen 5 has Stoutland, the actually good Normal-type, Linonne and Bibarel have some utility as a pickup abuser and an HM slave, and Diggersby has huge power as a hidden ability, but we're not talking about Stoutland, pickup is nice but a gimmick at most, HM slaves exist just to use HMs, and you're not going to find a HA bunnelby on route 1. For once, I'd like to catch a route 1 normal type, deelop an affection to it, and take it to the elite 4.

 

[R_N]

Are you all ready for the absolute dumbest thing that always annoyed me as a child and then annoyed me years later as a teen and seeing pumpkinz' post about seismic toss came back to the surface





So there's this orange island episode where the gang is sealed in the sewers and Nurse Joy & her Chansey are in front of the block and I was just so sure that Chansey was going to pull a swerve and use Seismic Toss to get rid of it
I don't even remember WHY, specifically (i mean if anything strength would make more sense), just that i was so 100% sure of it and was so disappointed when it didnt happen.

[years pass]

So there's this battle frontier episode where Ash battles a Nurse Joy & her chansey who love to fight and I think gets owned and everything and its great. But I was so sure that Chansey was going to use Seismic Toss because hey that's like competitive chansey's signature offensive move and I was so disappointed when it didnt happen.


It's just a delightful move and seeing pokemon that wouldn't normally expect to use it fills me with theoretical glee.

 

[Pikachu315111]

1. Ice types are obtained so late in the game. I recently decided to play platinum, and wanted to get a snover for my team since I had taken a liking to it because of its unique typing and ability. So where do you get it? After the 6th gym. Not wanting to wait that long, I used a randomizer to switch turtwig with it and had a good time playing with it so early. Also, Spheal in emerald. A unique ice/water type with good bulk that is only available right before the 7th gym. Needless to say, I swapped it with Mudkip and again, had a good time. But seriously, make ice-type pokemon available earlier. Even a trade would be nice.

2. Hidden Abilities being, y'know, hidden. Want to use a skill link cloyster or(Apparently skill link is cloyster's secondary ability, not its hidden one.) a technician breloom on your team? Too bad! You'll have to use some pretty convoluted methods, depending on what game you play.

3. Trade evolutions. Seriously, this mechanic is so outdated and the reason I play emulators and ROM hacks so much.

1. Well the Wild Area provides a chance to catch Early Ice-types under the right conditions (snowy weather or through dens). Also special mention goes to BW for having Cold Storage between the 4th & 5th Gym (aka just in time for the Ground-type Gym Leader) and Gen VII having Ice-types in Tapu Village since it was at the base of Mount Lanakila. Though, if anything, they do still emphasize the problem of Ice-types as their natural environment has to be cold and GF likes to place these locations late game.
Maybe artificial places like Cold Storage would be the way to go. I like seeing Pokemon and people interaction and people using Ice-types as maintenance for cold locations is a neat concept. Maybe have an ice rink where wild Ice-types keep the ice smooth but also are a bit of a pest or a server room where Ice-types keep the room cold. Otherwise only normal place I can see putting them is caves which they've made unnatural icy.

2. Eh, this more sounds like a "planned, repeated" playthrough problem more than an initial playthrough. A casual, no-plans playthrough I don't see this being a big deal mainly cause you're just dealing with what's given to you. Maybe you'll know of a certain Pokemon in the area you want and so grind for it, but otherwise the HA not being available isn't a big deal.
Now, for a planned, repeated playthrough, well honestly for that you should just either have the Pokemon you want ready in another game (or coordinate with someone to give them to you when you're ready). Either have them from the start (so that you can properly level them up) or, after catching the same member of their species in the wild, swap them out so it's sorta like you caught them.
Though if there was one way I would make Hidden Abilities a bit more widely available, maybe have you able to Breed for a Hidden Ability without the mother having its Hidden Ability, like you breed the mother with a father that just so happens to have the Ability which is the HA of the mother's species.

3. I can agree with this. Wouldn't mind having NPCs around the time all your Pokemon would be reaching their final stages start appearing who would offer to do a back-and-forth trade to evolve trade evolution Pokemon. Probably would have one for each trade evolution in the game and can only be done once (though maybe made more available somehow in the post game), but would at least give players a chance to evolve these Pokemon if they're unable to trade for whatever reason.

4. Every pseudo-legendary being Dragon-type. The only exceptions are Tyranitar and Metagross, but since Tyranitar looks like a dragon-type and learns Dragon Dance, Metagross is practically the only exception. We need more non-dragon type pseudo-legendaries. Volcarona could have been one, since it actively screams pseudo-legendary with its majestic, flaming wings and having a signature move in Fiery Dance, but we got Hydreigon instead.

5. Boss battle hax.
"Now, we need to make this boss battle challenging, but not have any actual strategy. Got any ideas?"
"How about Double Team/Attract/An OHKO move?"
"Perfect!"
Everyone likes boss battles to be challenging, but in the sense that the enemy uses actual strategy, not stupid hax. For example, Flannery having her Torkoal hold a white herb to use with Overheat, or Tate&Liza's Xatu setting up Sunny day to power up Solrock's flamethrower and have it use Solarbeam in one turn is good, challenging strategy. However, having Flannery's Torkoal use attract and Juan's Kingdra, Wallace's Ludicolo and countless others use Double Team is simply not fun, and is just unfair hax. I'd like to see some real strategy in boss battles, like a flame orb Conkeldurr or a toxic orb Gliscor.

6. The route 1 normal type being 'bad'. The early-game bug types have largely escaped this curse, (just look at leavanny, scolipede, vikavolt, and orbeetle!) but the route 1 normal types still suck. Raticate, Furret, Linoone, Bibarel, Patrat, Diggersby, Gumshoos, Greedent... you'll be hard-pressed to find them on anyone's hall of fame. True, gen 5 has Stoutland, the actually good Normal-type, Linonne and Bibarel have some utility as a pickup abuser and an HM slave, and Diggersby has huge power as a hidden ability, but we're not talking about Stoutland, pickup is nice but a gimmick at most, HM slaves exist just to use HMs, and you're not going to find a HA bunnelby on route 1. For once, I'd like to catch a route 1 normal type, deelop an affection to it, and take it to the elite 4.

4. I know, right? Like, sure, for the European regions a dragon does make sense... but so do fairies. I'm kind of pseudo-Legendary dragon fatigue here. I'd like to see some more designs like Metagross, not really based on a legendary creature but this strange concept. Though, as I said, a fairy would be fine too (my personal vote would be ones based on Oberon & Titania, which the Galar ones should have been!). Or focus on Types that don't really get that many strong representation like Bug & Grass (before you start showing me examples I'm generalizing; I know each Type has their good Pokemon but I think we can agree there are certain Types who get left on the wayside). Just something, anything different than another dragon.
I'm actually wondering if maybe this isn't a mandated thing by the Pokemon Company. If there's one thing a merchandise pushing company loves is a proven pattern and if there's one thing it hates is experimentation with a tried-and-true formula. Though I can also easily see it just GF making a dragon Pokemon, not knowing where to place it, so defaults it being the pseudo legendary.

5. Pokemon Boss battles I feel are sometimes in a bit of a bind where they sometimes want to/have planned a strategy for the bosses to use but the player's Pokemon is just too fast/strong that they have no time to setup. It's why Battle Facilities and the Totem Battles are looked upon with interest as those battles allow for elements to happen outside of the normal battle mechanics. I think it wouldn't be too farfetched if a boss like a League Trainer (Gym Leader/Elite Four) or a villain team admin/boss did something outside of the normal battle parameters which gives them the advantage and allows for them to get a strategy going the player has to adept quickly to. Also having at least the notable trainers having all their Pokemon hold an item (even if its something as simple as a Berry) would also go a long way to make the NPC at least look like they're trying.

6. The "Gen Rodent" is indeed the last "in every gen" Pokemon which has yet to escape the role GF has put them in of early game fodder. Maybe just not making them Normal-type by default would be a good start, like Bidoof could have just started as a Water-type and Bunnelby as a Ground-type instead of awkwardly stapling those Types as a secondary Type onto their evolutions (and of course better stats and Abilities). Also making them a more interesting animal or adding on an additional concept. Heck, maybe it's just time to retire the concept altogether (which is seemingly what they may be doing with the Gen Bug and Gen Bird), just reuse the ones we already got and if they just so happen to make another Bug/Bird/Rodent allow them to be better and more intricate than their previous brethren.

So there's this orange island episode where the gang is sealed in the sewers and Nurse Joy & her Chansey are in front of the block and I was just so sure that Chansey was going to pull a swerve and use Seismic Toss to get rid of it
I don't even remember WHY, specifically (i mean if anything strength would make more sense), just that i was so 100% sure of it and was so disappointed when it didnt happen.

[years pass]

So there's this battle frontier episode where Ash battles a Nurse Joy & her chansey who love to fight and I think gets owned and everything and its great. But I was so sure that Chansey was going to use Seismic Toss because hey that's like competitive chansey's signature offensive move and I was so disappointed when it didnt happen.

It's just a delightful move and seeing pokemon that wouldn't normally expect to use it fills me with theoretical glee.

Honestly they might as well had Brock's Happiny/Chansey learn it, the little gal already exhibited super strength:

 

[Worldie]

Though, if anything, they do still emphasize the problem of Ice-types as their natural environment has to be cold and GF likes to place these locations late game.

I'd point that this is actually a "common" trope in (J)RPGs: the late game ice level.

Frozen areas being usually hostile don't really make for good initial environment, and easily offer creative options for "late game challenges" like lack of resources, heat management, powerful enemies, frost puzzles, etc, depending on the RPG.

The only RPG I can think that I played recently with a early ice zone was Octopath Traveler, one of the charachters (Ophilia <3 ) does start from a icy zone, and several of the chapters 2 and 3 also do take place in cold areas.
I can't really think of others on top of my head.

 

[Celever]

I'd point that this is actually a "common" trope in (J)RPGs: the late game ice level.

Frozen areas being usually hostile don't really make for good initial environment, and easily offer creative options for "late game challenges" like lack of resources, heat management, powerful enemies, frost puzzles, etc, depending on the RPG.

The only RPG I can think that I played recently with a early ice zone was Octopath Traveler, one of the charachters (Ophilia <3 ) does start from a icy zone, and several of the chapters 2 and 3 also do take place in cold areas.
I can't really think of others on top of my head.

This is valid but there’s no real reason why it has to also apply to Pokémon considering it doesn’t really share any of the mechanics that are made more difficult by icy areas with other JRPGs. The closest we have is the freeze status being the best one, but that’s already counterbalanced by it being only a secondary effect.

I guess the main counterpoint is the scarcity of 3-stage evolutionary Ice-Type families, but that’s the case because the Ice-Type always comes late. We only have what, Vanillite, Spheal and Swinub off the top of my head? But they can always pull an Alola and make us baby a Smoochum for a while or something.

 

[Worldie]

This is valid but there’s no real reason why it has to also apply to Pokémon considering it doesn’t really share any of the mechanics that are made more difficult by icy areas with other JRPGs. The closest we have is the freeze status being the best one, but that’s already counterbalanced by it being only a secondary effect.

I guess the main counterpoint is the scarcity of 3-stage evolutionary Ice-Type families, but that’s the case because the Ice-Type always comes late. We only have what, Vanillite, Spheal and Swinub off the top of my head? But they can always pull an Alola and make us baby a Smoochum for a while or something.

Well, my point was that it's not something just Pokemon does, but that's something extremely common to begin with.

If anything i'd say they've been trying their hardest in last 2 gens to actually give *some* ice types early, with the cave in gen 7 and wild area now in gen 8.
Beats 0

 

[Codraroll]

I'd point that this is actually a "common" trope in (J)RPGs: the late game ice level.

Frozen areas being usually hostile don't really make for good initial environment, and easily offer creative options for "late game challenges" like lack of resources, heat management, powerful enemies, frost puzzles, etc, depending on the RPG.

The only RPG I can think that I played recently with a early ice zone was Octopath Traveler, one of the charachters (Ophilia <3 ) does start from a icy zone, and several of the chapters 2 and 3 also do take place in cold areas.
I can't really think of others on top of my head.

It wouldn't be too difficult to design early-game areas for Ice-types, though. A little Christmassy town, a snowy early-game forest, the foothills of a large mountain you visit later on, a snowy plain the kids in town play in ... it's easy enough to create a home for Ice-types that isn't a late-game hostile environment.

Or, well, just sticking Ice-types in an early-game area regardless of its climate. I think I could excuse that, given how many other strange 'mons you tend to find in the average grassy area anyway. Kanto has its Fire-types roam grassy plains, while Alola has the decidedly industrial Magnemite and Grimer appear in a school yard. A Swinub running around Route 2 wouldn't be too far-fetched.

It's too bad that Ice-types seem to be designed for late-game introduction, however. Barring Snom, which evolves from friendship, and the Ice Stone evolutions, the earliest Ice-type to evolve is Smoochum, at level 30. Swinub has stats comparable to Pidgey and Rattata, yet evolves at level 33. It really doesn't fit the power curve of the games very well, and has no progress to speak of until you've passed the fifth Gym or so - which is quite a long while to wait for a Pokémon to step up its power level. An early Ice-type area would have to include newly designed Ice-types whose growth fits their early introduction, otherwise they're going to be dead weight for half your adventure.

 

[Worldie]

It's too bad that Ice-types seem to be designed for late-game introduction, however. Barring Snom, which evolves from friendship, and the Ice Stone evolutions, the earliest Ice-type to evolve is Smoochum, at level 30. Swinub has stats comparable to Pidgey and Rattata, yet evolves at level 33. It really doesn't fit the power curve of the games very well, and has no progress to speak of until you've passed the fifth Gym or so - which is quite a long while to wait for a Pokémon to step up its power level. An early Ice-type area would have to include newly designed Ice-types whose growth fits their early introduction, otherwise they're going to be dead weight for half your adventure.

Basically giving USUM noibat vibes. Very cool to find it very early, only to find out it's deadweight for basically 30 levels :\

I think outside Eevee > Glaceon, and A-ninetales/sandshrew (aka, the stone evos) their only option would be to design new ice types in next gen if they really wanted.

...but they don't want to so we'll likely just be stuck with ice and most dragon types being relegated to late/postgame areas.

 

[Kurona]

They could also change evolution levels. Swinub being encountered in Route 2, evolving at level 20 and learning ancient power at level 37 doesn’t sound too bad.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

This is valid but there’s no real reason why it has to also apply to Pokémon considering it doesn’t really share any of the mechanics that are made more difficult by icy areas with other JRPGs. The closest we have is the freeze status being the best one, but that’s already counterbalanced by it being only a secondary effect.

I guess the main counterpoint is the scarcity of 3-stage evolutionary Ice-Type families, but that’s the case because the Ice-Type always comes late. We only have what, Vanillite, Spheal and Swinub off the top of my head? But they can always pull an Alola and make us baby a Smoochum for a while or something.

There's also hail as a weather condition, which does passive damage to practically everything except Ice-types, plus some of them have Snow Cloak, Ice Body, Slush Rush, etc. to utilize Hail. Hail tends to be naturally occurring in several icy areas across the game and it's arguably the weirdest weather condition aside from Sandstorm.

Overworld-navigation wise they tend to make these areas tedious/annoying or more difficult to navigate. You have slippery-slide icy puzzles in places like the Cold Storage in BW or the Ice Path in GSC+HGSS or just being a slow snowy place to navigate through like Route 217 in Sinnoh or Route 17 in Kalos. Icy areas tend to be harder to navigate in Pokemon and that seems to be a common trope in JRPGS in terms of overworld: basic grassy or warm areas to start to ease in players into the world and the game mechanics, then navigate into harder mechanics and more interesting/complex ones as they progress into the game. Unfortunately, this comes at Ice-types' expense as many of them are designed on par with early-game Pokemon at best, but as said above I think they should take more liberties with changing evolutionary levels of these Pokemon and put them in the early game if they want to make an early-game Ice-type using an older Pokemon. Changing evolutionary levels frankly doesn't apply to just Ice-types either, but with Pokemon like Noibat, Pawniard, Mienfoo, Vullaby, etc. who have obscenely high evolutionary levels which really hurts them in terms of futureproofing.

For one thing I think Ice needs more three-stage Ice-types given their scarcity, but on the other hand the one case of an Ice-type being late I could probably justify is if we end up with an Ice-type pseudo-legendary line at some point. Those Pokemon are designed specifically to be late-game and for people to struggle with the first two stages up to the final stage at a high level, and an Ice-type pseudo would be both cool and a justifiable late-game Pokemon with a powerful offensive typing and high stats+wide movepool to make use of to warrant its late arrival. Otherwise I'd like to see cases of stuff like Vanillite and Swinub obtained earlier (thankfully the Wild Area does make this somewhat possible in Sword and Shield).

It does make me wonder when Crown Tundra will be first accessible on a fresh SwSh playthrough. From what we can see with CT it's easily filled to the brim with Ice-type Pokemon and leveling up Pokemon in Sword and Shield is easier than ever, but if it's available as early as Hammerlocke (which is what I'm hoping) it would make stuff like Spheal, Cryogonal, and other Ice-types available in CT more easily available and easy to put on a team than before, and having Ice-types mid-game would be a nice change of pace since like...BW Vanillite lmao.