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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

What Im saying is that we first should have some basic guidelines that every type can have access to. I quoted very basic "niches" (if you could even call them that) like "strong move" for a reason.
No, I don't think you need any foundation like that at all -- you should just make them as you need them.

I'm in general agreement with Kurona that, at this point, we should really only be making moves where they are needed... HOWEVER that's not saying there isn't places where we need moves that would fit what Lemingue has been saying. One good place to start, aside filling "gaps" certain moves have, is looking through Abilities that work with a certain group of Moves, what Pokemon has them, and maybe making a move that Pokemon would appreciate to have that works with their Ability. For example, the Strong Jaw Ability. The Tyrunt family & the Chewtle family has no STAB with it & a lot of Water-types have it even though there's no normal Water-type biting move. If they at least made a Water-type and Rock-type biting move that would solve those problems, maybe even make a Dragon-type biting move so Tyrunt has two STABs!

Going back to the Sceptile example, we didn't have any strong Grass-type moves before Leaf Blade - outside of Solarbeam which had caveats attached - because there was no need for one. Why should there exist a strong Grass-type move if Venusaur, Vileplume, Celebi etc. aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place? Just make it when you need it -- and sure enough when they made Sceptile, they made Leaf Blade.

So where is Weavile's Ice-type Leaf Blade?

While the cats getting it probably is meant to be a pun (though considering the name, the technique was probably named after the cats in real life), I don't think "Fake Out" is meant to be a force of strength?
Its meant to startle the opponent, you clap in front of them and it makes them fall back or stunned for a second. An, uh, literal flinch. I've had it happen to me before, it was this whole "thing" at my middle school of trying to get people to blink/flinch. You know kind of like throwing a fake punch or swiping at the air in front of someone.
Probably why it goes to all sorts of pokemon over the years and not just cats & strong/bulky dudes. You got a bunch of lizards, frogs, weird psychic types, monkeys, tengu, penguins...

Honestly surprised it doesnt go to like every dark type.

It's actually based on a sumo wrestling technique. As for why it isn't Dark-type, guess they consider the user getting a free Flinch off the opponent was a bit too strong of an effect to also add potential super effective damage.

It's wild to imagine a world where PvP in Pokémon doesn't exist. A more peaceful world.

Well... Pokemon wouldn't exist. Pokemon was built off the idea of trading and battling other players over the GB Cable.

It could have been Simipour's signiture move, as it seems to be based on a geyser, which fits scald perfectly. And then some other random Pokemon could have gotten it in later gens, like Volcanion or something.

With that thinking the only Water-types that should get Scald is Blastoise (I can see it heating the water in its cannon), Remoraid family (similar idea, they're based on artillery), Panpour family (has a geyser design), Clauncher family (partially based in a pistol shrimp), & Volcanion.
 
It's actually based on a sumo wrestling technique. As for why it isn't Dark-type, guess they consider the user getting a free Flinch off the opponent was a bit too strong of an effect to also add potential super effective damage.
I'm aware its a sumo wrestling techinque im saying considering the name's more literal translation that it was probably at least partially named after cats anyway because who doesnt love a good pun in their fighting techniques.

Also not saying Fake Out should be dark type, just more curious to why more dark types, in general don't learn it since its a pretty sneaky move.
 
So where is Weavile's Ice-type Leaf Blade?
I'm tempted to say that this is another example of how despite my preferences I'd hardly say they're done perfectly or even well in a lot of areas... but at the same time, Weavile has always struck me as a Pokémon with terrifyingly powerful attributes only held back by bad abilities and subpar move choices. It's obvious enough from just how much more viable it became once it got access to Icicle Crash and Knock Off -- it went from a fairly restrained Pokémon to very easily A, and that was only put into question by its competition with a fusion of two legendary dragons.
 
Weavile always read as an extended apology note to treating Sneasel so dirty for 2 generations. Here's just about every move you could want and it keeps getting them as newer moves come out. Here's a cool evolution that makes your attack stat & speed even better. It never felt very restrained.

Weavile had Ice Shard (oh ho!) and Ice Punch from day 1, and Night Slash was about as good as dark type moves got for the general population for gen 4. Likewise Brick Break & X-Scissor are decent. And hey it's got Fake Out, too.
I don't think it was intentionally held back in its overall design work outside of its abilities and even then its kind of a weird pokemon to "hold back" in that fashion. (Why did it loose Keen Eye too, Inner Focus I can maybe see as a balance tweak but KE wasn't gonna break the bank, you know what I mean?)
 
Weavile always read as an extended apology note to treating Sneasel so dirty for 2 generations. Here's just about every move you could want and it keeps getting them as newer moves come out. Here's a cool evolution that makes your attack stat & speed even better. It never felt very restrained.

Weavile had Ice Shard (oh ho!) and Ice Punch from day 1, and Night Slash was about as good as dark type moves got for the general population for gen 4. Likewise Brick Break & X-Scissor are decent. And hey it's got Fake Out, too.
I don't think it was intentionally held back in its overall design work outside of its abilities and even then its kind of a weird pokemon to "hold back" in that fashion. (Why did it loose Keen Eye too, Inner Focus I can maybe see as a balance tweak but KE wasn't gonna break the bank, you know what I mean?)
As in, its physical STAB moves never broke 75 BP. Again, as soon as it got Knock Off and Icicle Crash; it was suddenly a lot better.
 
As in, its physical STAB moves never broke 75 BP. Again, as soon as it got Knock Off and Icicle Crash; it was suddenly a lot better.
You can't be held back from what doesn't exist, though. Ice Punch was the strongest physical ice move unless you count Avalanche when you proc its effect. It didn't get Crunch, true, but it barely had bite. Night Slash wasn't too far off anyway (& it had Pursuit, I suppose). And gen 4 was very light on non-legendary signature moves (Chatot, Vespiquen (what an odd pokemon...) and Rhyperior were it and Rhyperior's kind of sucked anyway).

Meanwhile it only missed out on Icicle Crash for that initial generation & to be fair it had (&...still has, actually?) a very limited distribution (I thought it was a TR...). The fact it was the ONLY new pokemon to get it in gen 6 makes me think they went down the list and went oh hey, this is one of our few physical ice types, lets actually give it the one new physical ice move (kyurem rip).

To put it another way if uhhh....Throat Chop, I guess, had existed in gens 4 or 5 I think it would have got it without issue. Hell it got it by breeding in SM, as literally the only other pokemon in the game that could get the move other than Incineroar.
 
You can't be held back from what doesn't exist, though. Ice Punch was the strongest physical ice move unless you count Avalanche when you proc its effect. It didn't get Crunch, true, but it barely had bite. Night Slash wasn't too far off anyway (& it had Pursuit, I suppose). And gen 4 was very light on non-legendary signature moves (Chatot, Vespiquen (what an odd pokemon...) and Rhyperior were it and Rhyperior's kind of sucked anyway).

Meanwhile it only missed out on Icicle Crash for that initial generation & to be fair it had (&...still has, actually?) a very limited distribution (I thought it was a TR...). The fact it was the ONLY new pokemon to get it in gen 6 makes me think they went down the list and went oh hey, this is one of our few physical ice types, lets actually give it the one new physical ice move (kyurem rip).

To put it another way if uhhh....Throat Chop, I guess, had existed in gens 4 or 5 I think it would have got it without issue. Hell it got it by breeding in SM, as literally the only other pokemon in the game that could get the move other than Incineroar.
I know, my point is that they didn't give it the tools to truly be as threatening as it could be -- they held back on making anything more powerful than Ice Punch and Night Slash, that's all.
 
Weavile had Ice Shard (oh ho!) and Ice Punch from day 1, and Night Slash was about as good as dark type moves got for the general population for gen 4. Likewise Brick Break & X-Scissor are decent. And hey it's got Fake Out, too.
I don't think it was intentionally held back in its overall design work outside of its abilities and even then its kind of a weird pokemon to "hold back" in that fashion. (Why did it loose Keen Eye too, Inner Focus I can maybe see as a balance tweak but KE wasn't gonna break the bank, you know what I mean?)

So we just ignoring how of all these moves you mentioned X-Scissor is the only one with at least 80BP? :pikuh:

You do raise a good point tho. The moves just don't exist. Icicle Crash is low key trash.

Yet another reason all types should have "reliable" STAB. (90BP, 100% Acc, no drawbacks, maybe 10% effect to match the type's design.)
 
The previous talk about Sceptile has made me remember one of my more minor, but still existent gripes with Pokemon. Namely, you guessed it, Sceptile.

To be clear, it's one of my favourite Pokemon and overall evolutionary lines. The first Pokemon game I played was Sapphire, way back in the day, and Treecko was my starter, so the line has a ton of sentimental value to me. And after playing Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky, it should go without saying that it made me love the line so much more.

But I've got one big gripe with Sceptile. Many of its Pokedex entries emphasize how the leaves on its arms can slice down thick trees, or how it's unmatched in jungle combat, with Y's explicitly saying how it uses its sharp leaves to strike down prey. In other words, that it's very adept at physical combat. Furthermore, if we look at its movepool, it gets Swords Dance and a ton of Physical moves such as Leaf Blade, Earthquake, Thunder Punch, Brick Break, Acrobatics, and Throat Chop. So with that said...

Why in Arceus' name does it have base 85 Attack and 105 Special Attack? Nothing about its design or concept indicates that it should be a Special attacker. Furthermore, Special attacking Grass-types are a dime a dozen, but it took until Sun and Moon to get a fast, physical one (and for what it's worth, I have a strong dislike of Kartana both for its design and as a VGC player). I get that Gen III was before the Physical/Special split, but they could have at least made its two attacking stats equal so that it could be mixed. I think the worst part is that they had the chance to fix this when they gave it a Mega, but straight up decided not to.
 
It didn't even occur to me that, yeah, Mega Sceptile is still a special attacker at heart (though 110 base attack is still better than 85) even though itsp rimary design trait is a tail missile
Arguably, the focus on special attacks helped with the missile aspect. It took until gen 8 for Sceptile to get seed bomb and bullet seed is the opposite of the "one big hit" style we expect of rockets. Meanwhile it had the special ballistic moves Focus Blast and Energy ball for as long as those moves have existed.
 
Of course, the problem here is Game Freak not wanting to make drastic changes to stat distribution. They might patch up a single stat or two but they don't try to completely change the Pokémon's stats to make it look like it has a different role than it was originally envisioned. The only thing remotely close to that is them buffing Swellow's Special Attack to match its Attack in Gen VII.

It didn't even occur to me that, yeah, Mega Sceptile is still a special attacker at heart (though 110 base attack is still better than 85) even though itsp rimary design trait is a tail missile

I suddenly imagined Mega Sceptile getting a Gulp Missile clone as an ability.

Which would totally make sense, to be fair.
 
One of the most annoying things for me probably has to be how linear the maps have become. Like, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh were fine, but I really wish we got more in Galar except for two massive rectangles and a few straight lines.

And same in Unova. It's just one thing goes to the next goes to the next. It's been quite bad since Unova, tbh. I just wish the routes were a bit more memorable. Like, remember Route 47 in Johto? The one with the cliffs? That was an amazing route. Also it had access to the embedded tower in quite a creative way. Like, that's what I wish that routes were more of. Although that galar route with the ladders was nice, it still was really linear.
Memorable doesn't have to equate to non-linear, though.
I found Unova had plenty of memorable routes:
-BW2's Route 4 where they like unearthed some old desert housing
-Route 9, with the mall and the little cave area.
-Route...5, I think, the one to the west of Nimbasa. A nice social park aesthetic, got the sidewalk/road, a lot of street performers, the little grass bits to the side.
-The post game routes! I love that route to the east of opelucide, the one that's wide open hilly plains and you can find a bunch of bug types, or the route along the shore line that's got a really low path and a really high path to emphasize the 3D aspect of the route and there's the really foggy route that I rememebr going through in the morning and just thinking it was a lovely little place. And the mountainous route with poketransporter, that was fun to zigzag from the upper road to the lower mountains

I liked several of Kalos' as well, though mostly I rememebr the caves and cities. Absolutely do not remember their numbers or names but:
-the route with the battle chateu. Its long has a distinct camera angle to show the lake and a bunch of flower patches with artists drawing stuff.
-The route with the cliffs overlooking the shore with the jump puzzles was a nice aesthetic, i liked that you took a side path to the cave
-The route with the skiddo ranch
-The swamp route!

Galar's got some okay routes too:
-Route 9, probably my favorite route in the game and one of my top routes overall? Nice length, good aesthetic, by far the best water route for sure.
-The route before Milo's town. I like the kind of autumn aesthetic fields
-Route 8, the one with the ruins aesthetic and ladders. This one is just marred by teh absolutely dreadful SWSH ladders. Please for the love of god look into what's wrongw ith your engine and fix this before the next game
-The sunny mountain route also isnt too shabby, though I wish it leaned into the Diglett ruin aesthetic that's only hitned at the end of the route.

Route 2 WOULD have been pretty nice but the lake comes into view too late, personally.


Alola's proabbly got the weakest route aesthetics. I'll remember Ula Ula's 2 routes leading to the observatory pretty well, and the bamboo grove nearby, but Poni Plains doesnt really do much for me and the other routes are just...pleasant, I suppose, but nothing stands out to me.
 
Earlier I voiced an annoyance about the ordering of damaging moves on level-up movesets. I really feel the need to voice this again because it suggests that power is everything. (There's numerous cases where power is not the only thing to be concerned about.)

Basically move level-up movesets in SwSh can boil down to two factors on damage move ordering:
  • Power of the move
  • Power relative to other moves learned.
The second one gets importance because it makes some mons learn things like 80 BP moves very early, but also makes some mons learn 60 BP moves quite late.

-Tangela manages to learn Vine Whip at level 16, only for it to already have learned Mega Drain at level 12.
-Tauros learns every coverage move in level-up before it even gets Take Down. (Note that the strongest it gets is Zen Headbutt) It gets Take Down at level 35 and remains without coverage.
-Timburr learns Slam at 24, after learning Rock Slide at 20. Considering the two accuracies, Slam should probably come earlier.

And as I said earlier:
I'm sure I can find more if I spend a bit more time.
And I have delivered:
:Bulbasaur:
Thanks to power sorting, Bulbasaur manages to learn most of the Grass-Type moves early (Seriously level 20 Seed Bomb as Ivysaur) and then because Take Down happens to have higher BP, it goes after these, leaving the family stuck without Grass-Type moves until the last level-up move in Solar Beam
:Hitmonlee::Hitmonchan:
These two are together because they have the same scenario that entails the "sort relative" situation. When one tries to make a moveset for something that learns lots of high BP moves, but limits it to level 44, it's gonna look unbalanced. These two are learning one of their best moves in Close Combat at level 36, getting 75 BP moves on evo, and need a move reminder to get the weaker moves.
:Gyarados:
Because of how many strong moves Gyarados learns, It ends up learning some moves it should not be getting early. All it needs is one level from evolution to get one of its best STABS in Waterfall.
:Hoothoot:
All that Psychic coverage it learns happens to have higher BP than Air Slash. Because sorting, Hoothoot manages to get Air Slash before it even evolves into Noctowl! Only other STAB after this is Take Down...
:Exploud:
Boomburst is obviously a better move than Hyper Beam, yet Exploud uselesly learns it after Boomburst, most likely because of the simple BP difference.
:Metang:
While this won't bring much significance in-game, Metang had a moveset restructure were all of Bulet Punch, Metal Claw, and Confusion were placed at level 1, all of which are the weakest BP moves Metang learns. When the system also considers all the ~80 BP moves, it manages to place Zen Headbutt at level 16.
:gible:
While this wouldn't matter in practice, the first move Gible has listed is Sand Tomb, being listed right before Tackle. Both are learned at level 1, but you'd think Tackle would come first, even with a 5 power difference, no?
:Tympole:
This was one of the few mons that learned Bubble that didn't get Water Gun for replacement. Due to also having weak moves in Echoed Voice, Acid, Round, and Mud Shot, Tympole is actually STABless untill it hits level 20 and finally learns Bubble Beam.
:fletchling:
It learns Aerial Ace at a level that it would have evolved into Talonflame if evolutions were not skipped. It already learned Acrobatics by this point, and one has to ask why the move that can be 110 base power comes before the stuck-at-60-base-power move.
:zubat:
After being able to learn Bite early on for many generations, Zubat now gets it as level 30. This is after it learns Air Cutter and a number of other moves. Golbat gets it at level 34, and one would ask why to even bother this late in levels.
:lickitung:
Rollout at level 6. Considering this is the move that triggers Lickitung's evolution, need I say more? The system apparently ignores evolutions like this.
:sneasel:
Sneasel manages to learn Slash at level 60. That's quite late for that move, but it's the strongest BP move Sneasel learns, so it obvously should be the last move right?
Every starter manages to keep the standard up even with this, so it's nice that things like Bind don't change these standards.
:drilbur::bergmite:
These two learn Rapid Spin as their starting move, which is notable because Rapid Spin has a higher power than Scratch and Tackle. (Their previous starting moves, respectively) I believe the case here is that their movesets were created before Rapid Spin was buffed, during which it has 20 base power.
:Diglett:
This mon manages to start with Scratch, even though Mud-Slap would be weaker. It was a standout that was interesting to me.
I don't mention moves with variable power mostly because those get treated inconsistently on where the placement is.
 
Yeah Alola was the worst in this regard. Unova wasn't that bad (I love route 4) but the rest seemed kinda eh. The skiddo ranch route was the best route in Kalos, in my opinion. The Pokemon Village route was also quite nice!

But nothing really relates to that cliff route in Johto or even Route 214 in Sinnoh, which is the one with that Ruin Maniac's Tunnel/Cave.
So I'm not saying this to say they're bad but
310px-Johto_Route_47_HGSS.png

241px-Sinnoh_Route_214_Pt.png


These route are nice, yes! I like it. But I don't think anything about them is discernibly better (outside of different tastes, obviously) than
Kalos_Route_8_XY.png


or

724px-Unova_Route_13_Summer_B2W2.png



nice routes!
 
Regarding Sceptile, It's especially terrible that as a special dragon type attacker (when Mega Evolved) that it does not get access to Draco Meteor! Sceptile's special moveset is pretty ugly, but would be at least forgivable with access to both Draco Meteor and Leaf Storm. I'd prefer it to have like 1 other weird coverage move (Flash Cannon, maybe Charge Beam, just something else), but come on, at least give Sceptile something better than Dragon Pulse. With regular Sceptile, it functions as a Unburden sweeper similar to Hawlucha, with only a 7 BST difference between their attack stats. It's mainly held back in it's typing, as mono Grass stab hits a lot less than Fighting and Flying stab. Maybe if they gave Sceptile access to Nasty Plot it could potentially be a special or physical Unburden sweeper, giving it more options.

Memorable doesn't have to equate to non-linear, though.
I found Unova had plenty of memorable routes:
-BW2's Route 4 where they like unearthed some old desert housing
-Route 9, with the mall and the little cave area.
-Route...5, I think, the one to the west of Nimbasa. A nice social park aesthetic, got the sidewalk/road, a lot of street performers, the little grass bits to the side.
-The post game routes! I love that route to the east of opelucide, the one that's wide open hilly plains and you can find a bunch of bug types, or the route along the shore line that's got a really low path and a really high path to emphasize the 3D aspect of the route and there's the really foggy route that I rememebr going through in the morning and just thinking it was a lovely little place. And the mountainous route with poketransporter, that was fun to zigzag from the upper road to the lower mountains

I liked several of Kalos' as well, though mostly I rememebr the caves and cities. Absolutely do not remember their numbers or names but:
-the route with the battle chateu. Its long has a distinct camera angle to show the lake and a bunch of flower patches with artists drawing stuff.
-The route with the cliffs overlooking the shore with the jump puzzles was a nice aesthetic, i liked that you took a side path to the cave
-The route with the skiddo ranch
-The swamp route!

Galar's got some okay routes too:
-Route 9, probably my favorite route in the game and one of my top routes overall? Nice length, good aesthetic, by far the best water route for sure.
-The route before Milo's town. I like the kind of autumn aesthetic fields
-Route 8, the one with the ruins aesthetic and ladders. This one is just marred by teh absolutely dreadful SWSH ladders. Please for the love of god look into what's wrong with your engine and fix this before the next game
-The sunny mountain route also isnt too shabby, though I wish it leaned into the Diglett ruin aesthetic that's only hitned at the end of the route.

Route 2 WOULD have been pretty nice but the lake comes into view too late, personally.


Alola's proabbly got the weakest route aesthetics. I'll remember Ula Ula's 2 routes leading to the observatory pretty well, and the bamboo grove nearby, but Poni Plains doesnt really do much for me and the other routes are just...pleasant, I suppose, but nothing stands out to me.
Yeah Alola was the worst in this regard. Unova wasn't that bad (I love route 4) but the rest seemed kinda eh. The skiddo ranch route was the best route in Kalos, in my opinion. The Pokemon Village route was also quite nice!

Honestly, I think Alola's and Galar's base routes really fall victim to being too linear at times, a lot of the aesthetics I really like, but they overall feel like too much like a hallway to me. Galar Route 3 stands out to me because they point out "hey look there's a power plant right over there," but you can't visit it. Then why point it out? I'd contrast that route to Sinnoh's Route 205 / Fuego Ironworks, where you can actually visit and explore the Ironworks later. Sw/Sh's main routes / forests / dungeons really fall victim to the mentality that you are just passing through, not letting you explore it. Galar Mine 1 looks cool as hell, but after 15 minutes there's not much to do, you can find everything and beat all the trainers pretty quickly, there is nothing left for me to explore or come back to. I want to spend more time around the cool looking rocks, just give me a reason to!

Contrary to this, I think the Crown Tundra as a whole, brings back the more traditional route design. The Tundra really feels like a few routes and caves mashed together. I feel like that the Tundra is the best transfer of the 2d routes to a 3d form. While X & Y were in 3d, their route structure still followed the 2d top down style. The Tundra translated that style into a 3d space far better than their previous attempts. IoA works, but jumbles itself in bringing in too many biomes. The Crown Tundra restricts itself to Snow, Tundra, and Grass, with a few caves and 1 sea zone, and because of that can focus in on what fits into that space and explore the concepts more. If I was going to make a prediction, I'd think the next game will follow the design of the Crown Tundra. For example, I could see a everything between Sinnoh's Veilstone City, Pastoria City, and Sunnyshore City fitting into a cohesive area similar to the Crown Tundra, or alternatively Kanto Routes 11 - 15. The Crown Tundra feels like they locked down how to really use the verticality of a 3d space and how to make that space interesting to explore and it feels like something the next games will build on.

[edit: corrected spelling mistakes]
 
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My replay of SWSH I have some...well, I still wouldn't rank them very highly over all (Route 9 the best tho) but I think they do at least try to have some offshoots like most routes in teh series. There's parts where you can double back, choose a split in the path and do some loops, have little side chunks to climb to.

Like they could have definitely been more to them. The fact they keep positioning the camera to show things off in the distance that you obviously can never go to is frustrating at the best of times. But at the same time most of them I also wouldn't mark them noticably lower than a lot of the rest of the series.
 
Draco Meteor is the exclusive domain of "natural" Dragon-types. Charizard, Ampharos, and Necrozma don't get it either, despite Mega Evolving/Ultra Bursting into Dragons.
Necorzma Silvally & Arceus get to be the only exception to this I guess since they get to """permanently""" be dragons while those 4 only become dragon during battle through another mechanic.
 
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