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NOC 11p gen 1 closed setup (D4 End: Dec 25 at 5 PM PST)

Clarinet said:
S.B, I'm confused on gummy

I scumleaned him then Former comes with a peek which I believed later, then he takes it back, and gummy is??

I'm trying to follow Dusk's advice, forget cop's peek on gummybears happened

I might vote him later tho depending on wagons
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Sorry, you’re confused on him in general now, right? What changed it? I don’t remember you responding to any of his posts so I don’t understand where this shift is coming from.
 
Former said:
Low key though, I paid a lot of attention to Duskfall last game because I was trying to see if it was ever going to be possible to get them voted out.

Because of that last game, I feel like I have a pretty good indicator of his town game and I'm just not seeing it.
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What’s the difference here? What’s Tommy’s regular towngame and what’s different this time around?
 
Former said:
Sure

unvote, vote tommy

If anyone really wants a good read through, go read D1 of last game where town Tommy tried to solve Mafia Former's slot. Then compare it to this game and spot the differences.
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Found this post I guess, but I don’t really want to read back through a long old game this close to dl.
 
Eagle4 said:
i think there's maf in former/duskfall with the way they're going at each other's throats but former's defense feels a lot weaker -- and they've flipped from 'if celever's maf then duskfall's their partner' to wanting duskfall out first which seems inconsistent
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Let me push back a bit here and help you develop some of these thoughts. Why are you reading that inconsistency as mafia? Wouldn't mafia actually be more likely to stay consistent since they want to get people voted out, meanwhile town is more likely to be inconsistent since they need to have evolving reads as the game changes?



Eagle4 said:
i also think there's a reason why the gambit in particular seems like something maf would do over town (or rather, the logic that 'maf would instantly know it's fake if bgb is town so would refuse it outright' which is very flimsy and seems like it's a way to manufacture a 'gotcha' that's not there)
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The logic is pretty solid, forcing people to react to something that's hard to naturally fake is a pretty solid way to establish people who are town from mafia. It also forces a discussion that is really easy to Alignment read going back.
tl;dr, it's always better for town to force mafia to step to their beat rather than let mafia have the space to do what they want.
 
SB. said:
What’s the difference here? What’s Tommy’s regular towngame and what’s different this time around?
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It's hard to put into words but Tommy really likes to thoroughly think about things as town. If you see last game, he hedged back and forth with my alignment and several times asked if I had seen something to gauge me.

This game he's not trying to think things through, he enters the thread, says something, but leaves any actual plot threads untouched and unconsidered.
 
Eagle4 said:
i think there's maf in former/duskfall with the way they're going at each other's throats but former's defense feels a lot weaker -- and they've flipped from 'if celever's maf then duskfall's their partner' to wanting duskfall out first which seems inconsistent

i also think there's a reason why the gambit in particular seems like something maf would do over town (or rather, the logic that 'maf would instantly know it's fake if bgb is town so would refuse it outright' which is very flimsy and seems like it's a way to manufacture a 'gotcha' that's not there)
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I’m also feeling kinda icky about how this is going, but can you explain the second paragraph for me again?

Ngl I assumed phase end was tomorrow and was hoping I had more time to think this through and now I just kind of hate it here.
 
Oh and if it was unclear, I did the whole thing on BGB because I was actually scumreading them off of a few posts and wondered what would happen if I did that.

The fact they have effectively vanished from the thread after being accused like that is really interesting though.
 
Former said:
It's hard to put into words but Tommy really likes to thoroughly think about things as town. If you see last game, he hedged back and forth with my alignment and several times asked if I had seen something to gauge me.

This game he's not trying to think things through, he enters the thread, says something, but leaves any actual plot threads untouched and unconsidered.
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Okay. I’ll reread some Tommy posts quickly in a bit.

I wanted to ask Celever something but I forgot what it was.
 
Former said:
Oh and if it was unclear, I did the whole thing on BGB because I was actually scumreading them off of a few posts and wondered what would happen if I did that.

The fact they have effectively vanished from the thread after being accused like that is really interesting though.
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Ty for replying to one of the questions I asked you 20 posts after the ISO. How about you do the other one and provide a rainbow so we have information after we vote you out?
 
SB. said:
Wait, Former, am I remembering this wrong or were you scumreading Celever earlier on? When did they become a townread of yours?
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Recently.

My whole thing on them was based on their meta which I didn't have. I couldn't really actively read their slot and that reaction unless I had a solid grasp on what their playstyle is. So I just engaged and provoked them until I felt like I had a pretty solid understanding of how they play and I think their reaction to my gambit was pretty natural given how I've seen them play.
 
I will keep my vote on shubaka who I still think has the highest chance of flipping mafia, I don't think any of what has happened in the last couple of pages changes that (and also it's been kinda messy so I cba going through it again)
 
Eagle4 said:
ughhhhhhhh
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Ignore him, he’s trying to smoke and mirrors after receiving heat.

Realising my vote isn’t salient enough and so flipping to Tommy, the only stated scumread he hasn’t yet pushed and therefore the last option that doesn’t ruin his progression, is mafia strategy, not town.
 
I mean if former is town here playing this bad then this loss is not on me anyway, he doesn't have any actual valid reasoning for anything hes done all game he did some weird gambit that did nothing then pretended that celever slipped so was mafia but he doesn't even push the slip then votes me when I invite him onto me. If he is town here he really needs to take a good look at how he plays mafia. I gave you the benefit of the doubt last game because I respected you and you turned out mafia, I am not doing it again and you can get good or get out I give new players breathing room, you don't get that and your play has been god awful to be quite honest.
 
Former said:
Let me push back a bit here and help you develop some of these thoughts. Why are you reading that inconsistency as mafia? Wouldn't mafia actually be more likely to stay consistent since they want to get people voted out, meanwhile town is more likely to be inconsistent since they need to have evolving reads as the game changes?

The logic is pretty solid, forcing people to react to something that's hard to naturally fake is a pretty solid way to establish people who are town from mafia. It also forces a discussion that is really easy to Alignment read going back.
tl;dr, it's always better for town to force mafia to step to their beat rather than let mafia have the space to do what they want.
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1) it doesn't feel like natural progression, you go after celever and say duskfall's maf partner if celever's maf, your reasoning for why you think they could be teammates is very flimsy, and then you go to duskfall as if duskfall's been your vote target the whole time - that's how i read it

2) the logic in a vaccuum isn't terrible but it was employed terribly and your reasoning thereafter for who you sr/what you got out of the whole gambit was very unconvincing

SB. said:
I’m also feeling kinda icky about how this is going, but can you explain the second paragraph for me again?
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i will tomorrow but i don't want to elaborate yet for ~reasons~, i just think it's very flawed

Celever said:
Ignore him, he’s trying to smoke and mirrors after receiving heat.
Realising my vote isn’t salient enough and so flipping to Tommy, the only stated scumread he hasn’t yet pushed and therefore the last option that doesn’t ruin his progression, is mafia strategy, not town.
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I don't like your confidence tbh

but having said all that yeah i think i'm sticking w/ a former vote
 
So former has played everything he did all game off as a gambit except his scumread on me which he started because he thoguht I was celever's partner. But he never actually scumread celever my brain is also exploding now wtf are you even doing here is your mafia play this bad?
 
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