Unpopular opinions

ScraftyIsTheBest said:
Every Pokemon is liked by somebody.
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I'm a fan of Hoenn Zigzagoon.

It's an early-route derp that had enough positives to make it stand out from the horde. Fine early on when you just want a second teammate, then it hits 20 and you teach it Strength. Moveset can easily be any 4 out of Strength/Surf/Dig/Rock Smash/Cut, which just happens to be a base-80 STAB plus SE coverage on every single rock and steel in the game and also a perfect HM slave. Oh, and it passively adds items to your bag, bc why not. Not worth using in battle past about Norman, but it goes from being a solid early normal to a reliable source of items to a very good HM slave. That thing has been a boon to so many of my playthroughs it's scary.

One of the issues with Dexit is that there's literally no mon that GF can cut that won't piss off somebody.
 
Yes, absolutely spot on! Another fan of Hoenn Zigzagoon! A true masterstroke of a Pokemon both in terms of design and character creation. It's way cooler than Galarian Zigzagoon imo and such an overlooked mon because of its Galarian counterpart. It's probably just nostalgia speaking here but Zigzagoon has always been a very appealing mon to me for some reason and I've always had a soft spot for it. I loved the idea of having a little dude in my party who would pick up free stuff for me as kid and being able to learn so many HMs was extremely useful, especially considering this was at a time when I would only use 2-3 at most in a playthrough.
 
Lillie: heals your team throughout a long af dungeon with strong trainers
"omg pokemon stop babying me with this walking pokecenter"
Marnie: cheers you which....somehow sharply raises your stats against a weak ass grunt
"marnieeeee i love you best rival ever"
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pokemon4eva said:
Lillie: heals your team throughout a long af dungeon with strong trainers
"omg pokemon stop babying me with this walking pokecenter"
Marnie: cheers you which....somehow sharply raises your stats against a weak ass grunt
"marnieeeee i love you best rival ever"
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Well, I'd rather take a completely average character over a blatant Purity Sue that pretty much has a "LIKE ME OR YOU'RE EVIL!" sign on top of her. Being a walking Pokémon Center is not the problem with Lillie - on the contrary, it's her only redeeming trait.

But I have to agree in that Marnie is being overrated.
 
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Is it popular to hate on Lillie? I thought most people liked Lillie.

She's annoying on subsequent runs because she gets so much screentime, but that's really not an issue with Lillie as a character but more with the fact that we still can't skip cutscenes. I think she's a good character, though I do wish we would have seen more of her transformation. Like sure, she has a different outfit, but I would have liked to have her battle an NPC or something to show the player that she has changed.
 
pokemon4eva said:
Lillie: heals your team throughout a long af dungeon with strong trainers
"omg pokemon stop babying me with this walking pokecenter"
Marnie: cheers you which....somehow sharply raises your stats against a weak ass grunt
"marnieeeee i love you best rival ever"
View attachment 306139
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Almost forgot about Marnie.

Which makes sense, because she's pretty much a cardboard cutout. There are literally irrelevant NPCs that are more memorable than her. I don't get the hype with her besides the creepy scumbags. Kind of a wasted design tbh.

Lillie doesn't even get that and to make things worse, she's actively annoying with just how much screen time she gets. If you like her arc, you'll be fine. I'm slightly more concerned that you can't go down a corridor in aLOLa without running into a huge cutscene every time and most of them feature Lillie and Nebby playing Prison Break. She's at least miles ahead of Marnie. Which again, ain't even that hard.

Both of them can go straight to the trash can.
 
Siggu said:
Well, I'd rather take a completely average character over a blatant Purity Sue that pretty much has a "LIKE ME OR YOU'RE EVIL!" sign on top of her. Being a walking Pokémon Center is Lillie's only positive trait.

But I have to agree in that Marnie is being overrated.
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Agree on the "LIKE ME OR YOU'RE EVIL" aspect of her, ESPECIALLY on USUM, where she steals Nebby away from her mother, who was trying to help Alola on this timeline, and no one calls her out because "oooh you saved the cute critter you go girl".

Anyways, the point is that I've never seen anyone call out Marnie for this illogical, ridiculous, overkill stat boost, but Lillie gets flak for healing you a couple times.

Magnus0 said:
Is it popular to hate on Lillie? I thought most people liked Lillie.

She's annoying on subsequent runs because she gets so much screentime, but that's really not an issue with Lillie as a character but more with the fact that we still can't skip cutscenes. I think she's a good character, though I do wish we would have seen more of her transformation. Like sure, she has a different outfit, but I would have liked to have her battle an NPC or something to show the player that she has changed.
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Alola's campaign is pretty much Lillie's journey, except we control a silent protagonist and watch her grow instead of being from first person perspective. That's the biggest wasted opportunity with this game imo.

If she were the main protagonist that decides to try out the Island Challenge, defeats Team Skull who has been targetting her, defeats the Foundation and her mother in battle (the scene where she confronts her in Ultra space is still good to see though), proves Gladion she can defend herself and becomes Alola's first champion after battling the man who has taken care of her since she ran away...all of this sounds more satisfying since nearly everything in the main story revolves around Lillie, so if she were the heroine, that could've been amazing.

Also not sure if this is unpopular but I'm glad Lillie didn't turn out to be a Nihilego posing as a human, her dressing like that because of Lusamine abusive and controlling behavior was more interesting.
 
pokemon4eva said:
Agree on the "LIKE ME OR YOU'RE EVIL" aspect of her, ESPECIALLY on USUM, where she steals Nebby away from her mother, who was trying to help Alola on this timeline, and no one calls her out because "oooh you saved the cute critter you go girl".
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I don't think Lillie knew that, all Lillie knew was Lusamine was torturing Nebby to open wormholes after meeting with these strange people claiming to be from another world. Now Gladion seem to know a bit more, his objection was them essentially tossing away the "Beast Killers" (and maybe knew his mother would try to hijack the operation). Because remember, the Ultra Recon Squad's goal was capturing Necrozma to not only prevent it from eating more light but also siphoning the light from it. Lusamine decided she wanted to conserve Necrozma, not quite sure what she had in mind but at the very least she didn't want the URS to siphon light off of Necrozma.

There's also nothing implying that Lusamine still didn't torment Lillie for a while until the URS arrived. The only difference (sadly) of the USUM timeline is the recent appearance of the URS, everything else happened as it would have normally which would include the disappearance of Mohn and the slipping of Lusamine's insanity. And all the URS appearance did was make Lusamine's goal look like they had good intentions, focusing on Necrozma instead of Nihilego, and she didn't end up fusing & poisoned by the Nihilego thus could reconcile with Lillie.

pokemon4eva said:
Alola's campaign is pretty much Lillie's journey, except we control a silent protagonist and watch her grow instead of being from first person perspective. That's honestly the biggest wasted opportunity with this game imo.

If she were the main protagonist that decides to try out the Island Challenge, defeats Team Skull who has been targetting her, defeats the Foundation and her mother in battle (the scene where she confronts her in Ultra space is still good to see though), proves Gladion she can defend herself and becomes Alola's first champion after battling the man who has taken care of her since she ran away...nearly everything in the main story revolves around Lillie, so that could've been amazing.
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Eh, I think people would consider her even a bigger Mary Sue then. Much like with other games past V, there are ways the player could be written to be more proactive and involved with the story than just the "wrench in the works" hero but GF just don't want to push the narrative. The player does play a role still that really only the player could do, but its a role parallel to other characters (it's this character's story but they can't be the one to do the thing, so they have the player be the one to do the thing) rather then it being something which involves the player's personal story.

Don't know how to squeeze that into SM's story, I'd say maybe make the player more involved with the Team Skull stuff though I always felt that's something Hau should have since Guzma was a student of Hala so there's a semi-narrative between them: Guzma failed to live up to Hala's expectations and Hau wants to exceed them but Hala keeps him at arm length.

Volt-Ikazuchi said:
Hey, it's on par with cheering on raids putting up screens.

Not even stat boosts. Whole ass screens. :pikuh:
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Or full healing everyone's Pokemon.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
Never got that lucky.

At least that makes sense in a "second wind" kind of way. What about those physical screens that I can set by yelling that hard? :swole:
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You are in a pocket dimension filled with energy that, one effect is, able to make Pokemon grow REALLY big. Who's to say Dyanamax energy in such high levels and concentration maybe doesn't allow humans to tap into some kind of ability, maybe going off what the cheering person is thinking at the time.
  • "We need to get stronger" Raises stats.
  • "We need stronger defenses" Sets up screens.
  • "We have to shake off those ailments" Cures ailments.
  • "We need to hold on longer" Full heal.
  • "We have to break through that shield" Breaks shield.
  • "Let's hurry guys I'm getting hungry" Does nothing (someone's not being a team player).
 
Magnus0 said:
Is it popular to hate on Lillie? I thought most people liked Lillie.

She's annoying on subsequent runs because she gets so much screentime, but that's really not an issue with Lillie as a character but more with the fact that we still can't skip cutscenes. I think she's a good character, though I do wish we would have seen more of her transformation. Like sure, she has a different outfit, but I would have liked to have her battle an NPC or something to show the player that she has changed.
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Yeah I can understand that, it's mostly Cosmog evolving and going to you since that was her partner pokemon.
 
pokemon4eva said:
Agree on the "LIKE ME OR YOU'RE EVIL" aspect of her, ESPECIALLY on USUM, where she steals Nebby away from her mother, who was trying to help Alola on this timeline, and no one calls her out because "oooh you saved the cute critter you go girl".

Anyways, the point is that I've never seen anyone call out Marnie for this illogical, ridiculous, overkill stat boost, but Lillie gets flak for healing you a couple times.



Alola's campaign is pretty much Lillie's journey, except we control a silent protagonist and watch her grow instead of being from first person perspective. That's the biggest wasted opportunity with this game imo.

If she were the main protagonist that decides to try out the Island Challenge, defeats Team Skull who has been targetting her, defeats the Foundation and her mother in battle (the scene where she confronts her in Ultra space is still good to see though), proves Gladion she can defend herself and becomes Alola's first champion after battling the man who has taken care of her since she ran away...all of this sounds more satisfying since nearly everything in the main story revolves around Lillie, so if she were the heroine, that could've been amazing.

Also not sure if this is unpopular but I'm glad Lillie didn't turn out to be a Nihilego posing as a human, her dressing like that because of Lusamine abusive and controlling behavior was more interesting.
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And this is why all mainline games suffer story wise especially after BW
It's not YOUR story, it's "you are simply a witness to these events, while standing awkwardly to the side"
People act like silent protags in Nintendo are fine, but they really aren't used well at all nowadays
It's also why I vastly preferred Mystery Dungeon over every other Poke Spinoff's story. YOU emote! You can get hurt or do other actions in cutscenes! YOU are building the friendship with the partner! And in some cases YOU determine the action with events!
And heck, you're quiet 90% of the time. And you're still a character instead of progressing cardboard
 
Sonikku A said:
And this is why all mainline games suffer story wise especially after BW
It's not YOUR story, it's "you are simply a witness to these events, while standing awkwardly to the side"
People act like silent protags in Nintendo are fine, but they really aren't used well at all nowadays
It's also why I vastly preferred Mystery Dungeon over every other Poke Spinoff's story. YOU emote! You can get hurt or do other actions in cutscenes! YOU are building the friendship with the partner! And in some cases YOU determine the action with events!
And heck, you're quiet 90% of the time. And you're still a character instead of progressing cardboard
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Granted, the human character in all MD games is also a vanilla protagonist, not an interesting character itself but the stuff surrounding it is, and it's the partner who gets the more noticable growth, but it's nice to see its thoughts during the events of the story.
 
pokemon4eva said:
Granted, the human character in all MD games is also a vanilla protagonist, not an interesting character itself but the stuff surrounding it is, and it's the partner who gets the more noticable growth, but it's nice to see its thoughts during the events of the story.
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It's like how even though Link has always been a silent protag, WW-Skyward Sword he actually emotes or has relation directly to what's going on
Unlike BoTW where he really is flat as cardboard
 
I've only real experience with BotW and AoC when it comes to Zelda, so I don't see any Sidon slander. Best bro not insulted.

Anyways, I've a kind of relevant response to the Lillie thing. I don't hate her character. She's fine. Though I can see why people would dislike her. Especially in USUM. Which leads me into what I actually want to say: we helped Lillie's character out more in our UM hack. For starters, her tag team teams are better (both Battle Tree and in the Multi Battle with Faba. She's 4 Mons during the latter fight.). Also, she's more confident during the Rainbow Rocket arc and doesn't say that she's a bad Trainer, just not good enough yet. Sure, this is only postgame help for her, but it's something. And it's character development reinforced by gameplay. Do I wish I could've had her battle you (with a full, competent team)? Yes. But such are the limitations of my tools. I did what I could.

To be honest, the only reason I dropped these spoilers are becuase I'm taking a comically long time to update my hack's forum run and it'd be a decade+ at this rate for anyone to see these changes. Might as well drop it now and say my peace.
 
King Feraligatr said:
Anyways, I've a kind of relevant response to the Lillie thing. I don't hate her character. She's fine. Though I can see why people would dislike her. Especially in USUM. Which leads me into what I actually want to say: we helped Lillie's character out more in our UM hack. For starters, her tag team teams are better (both Battle Tree and in the Multi Battle with Faba. She's 4 Mons during the latter fight.). Also, she's more confident during the Rainbow Rocket arc and doesn't say that she's a bad Trainer, just not good enough yet. Sure, this is only postgame help for her, but it's something. And it's character development reinforced by gameplay. Do I wish I could've had her battle you (with a full, competent team)? Yes. But such are the limitations of my tools. I did what I could.
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You know, reading this, it makes me wonder whether they should have made Lillie a trainer. Yes, part of her character arc is understanding that good trainers like the player, Hau, and everyone part of the Island Challenge aren't hurting their Pokemon. Rather, battling is a way Pokemon express themselves because they aren't badly wounded from it and its a way to grow stronger for them. However, this understanding is what's used to justify her deciding to become a trainer... when I think it would have been fine if she understood this but still decided she doesn't want to force Pokemon to battle and instead help them live better lives through other recreational means. This would I think actually keep better with her character as well as add another subtle connection between her and her mother (wanting Pokemon to live happily and safely) but show how Lillie is thinking in a much more rational way (aka not freezing them in a block of ice forever). It could also maybe add more significance to her "Z-Powered Form", instead of it also representing Lillie becoming a trainer it would instead solely represent Lillie deciding to no longer follow in her mother's footprints. Yes, she's still going to be protecting and healing Pokemon, but she's also going to listen to the Pokemon's feelings instead of just believing she knows what's right.

"So we would never see Lillie battle?" OR "But Lusamine is a strong trainer"

Never said she wouldn't battle. Infact for the Rainbow Rocket episode I would say if they had done what I suggested above for Lillie than everything she did during the RR episode would make more sense. She's not a battler so of course she'd only have a Clefairy. Intead of Lillie saying "she's not a very good trainer" instead she'd lament not training her Pokemon to be stronger and having the player need to rescue the Aether Foundation and her mother. And after the RR episode this could be the reason she appears at the Battle Tree with a better team, not wanting to feel hopeless and unprepared again she's now training her team against other strong trainers. She's a battling trainer only our of necessity, much like her mother, though even then you could show her true self by her choice of Pokemon and battling (while Lusamine's theme was "beautiful but dangerous", Lillie's Pokemon could be high defense & useful supporters).
 
Pikachu315111 said:
You know, reading this, it makes me wonder whether they should have made Lillie a trainer. Yes, part of her character arc is understanding that good trainers like the player, Hau, and everyone part of the Island Challenge aren't hurting their Pokemon. Rather, battling is a way Pokemon express themselves because they aren't badly wounded from it and its a way to grow stronger for them. However, this understanding is what's used to justify her deciding to become a trainer... when I think it would have been fine if she understood this but still decided she doesn't want to force Pokemon to battle and instead help them live better lives through other recreational means. This would I think actually keep better with her character as well as add another subtle connection between her and her mother (wanting Pokemon to live happily and safely) but show how Lillie is thinking in a much more rational way (aka not freezing them in a block of ice forever). It could also maybe add more significance to her "Z-Powered Form", instead of it also representing Lillie becoming a trainer it would instead solely represent Lillie deciding to no longer follow in her mother's footprints. Yes, she's still going to be protecting and healing Pokemon, but she's also going to listen to the Pokemon's feelings instead of just believing she knows what's right.

"So we would never see Lillie battle?" OR "But Lusamine is a strong trainer"

Never said she wouldn't battle. Infact for the Rainbow Rocket episode I would say if they had done what I suggested above for Lillie than everything she did during the RR episode would make more sense. She's not a battler so of course she'd only have a Clefairy. Intead of Lillie saying "she's not a very good trainer" instead she'd lament not training her Pokemon to be stronger and having the player need to rescue the Aether Foundation and her mother. And after the RR episode this could be the reason she appears at the Battle Tree with a better team, not wanting to feel hopeless and unprepared again she's now training her team against other strong trainers. She's a battling trainer only our of necessity, much like her mother, though even then you could show her true self by her choice of Pokemon and battling (while Lusamine's theme was "beautiful but dangerous", Lillie's Pokemon could be high defense & useful supporters).
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I'm not saying you're wrong man. I'm just working with the game and more of its original intentions (while making it slightly better written and executed). And this is a hard mode hack (with TRR Grunts all having a degree of competency). If she wasn't an up and coming ass kicker, it'd be out of place for what the events are showing you. And it'd make the Faba fight even more hell. Maybe I could've taken your angle if I wasn't just doing polishing touches/bugfixes on the hack now, but that's too late now.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Does... not... compute...

TR Grunts being incompetent at battling is just like Star Wars Stormtroopers being unable to aim.
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We'll go over them when we get to that point, won't we >:) ? Let's just say I like making villainous team Grunts (barring Skull's) more competent at battling. Hell, I like making villainous teams more threatening in general. Helps make their encounters and music (which is generally some of the best in a given game) stand out more.

(If you're impatient and want to hear more, PM me. Clogging this thread up too much with my own stuff.)
 
New around here, though I have been looking at others posts, when I didn’t have an account. You all seem quite pleasant so I think I’ll post around Orange Islands for a while.

Anyway, three unpopular (at least judging from what I’ve seen) opinions:

First is that I actively don’t care for story in pokemon games, while it does make good filler in the games I’ve played so far (BW2, Platinum, UM, SwSh) I just want to get to the fights. I’m not opposed to it, but for this reason I’m not as big on the “story” entries, and thus, I haven’t played them (SM, BW).

Second is that I think the XY anime isn’t great, it feels like something they slapped together and called it a day (I’ll admit Team Flare, or I suppose Lysandre is pretty cool, but I haven’t played XY yet so I can’t compare but that seems to be a shining positive that people agree on). I’m not gonna say that it was lazy or anything, because it’s a pretty well drawn and surprisingly well acted series, but I much prefer Sun and Moon, even if there are a lot of flaws it has (Ash being the main character disrupting the Lusamine arc, Ultra Necrozma being anticlimactic as heck, and the pace being absolutely ridiculous).

Lastly, I’m not exactly pessimistic about the future of pokemon. I don’t have much hope either, but after the year GameFreak has had, with no one who is a representative of GameFreak being able to catch a break about the latest entries, something tells me that they may get down and try and have some effort next time. However, this is probably unlikely, because GameFreak’s quality has declined very steeply, from USUM to SwSh, and if they can rake in the amount of sales SwSh has had with it being a bad game, something tells me that unless a mad boycott happens to the next series games, they will keep continuing what they’re doing, and like I said, I’m not exactly pessimistic about it - Pokemon has a great formula, meaning if you just upped the graphic department and the gameplay department even the tiniest bit, many would still have fun with it, like me, which is sad and at the same time kind of relieving, though I suppose that’s mostly sad.

Anyway, feel free to critique these opinions of this post and I’m looking forward to posting here more :)
 
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