About to test the following bad girls:
Cyndaquil: Is there no redemption for Quilava? Is Cyndaquil really bad against Falkner as part of a two-mon ensemble? Can Fury Cutter turn Typhlosion into a boss slayer at least? Can Smokescreen be to her what Double Team is to Ralts in the RSE tier list? No one really uses it...
Phanpy: Does she really belong so low in C? I intend to find out. Early evolution into Donphan (L20), plus she should be an ideal user of Strength and Curlout with 120 Attack and 130 Defense (IIRC). She should be good against Whitney at least, want to find out for sure.
Snubbull: How good is she as a Normal-type? C-tier like Stantler deserves to be? Higher like Furret (B) or even Tauros (A)?
Horsea: Never used them in my life, interested in seeing how good they are. They do seem to have good stats, at least? C seems a little low.
How exactly? Will it hit with every Sleep Powder, survive all status effects and dodge every Iron Tail while simultaneously using Growth and sweeping with VINE WHIP? Yes, it is possible but be reasonable.
More often than your Stantler (named Aegon, curiously) did with Hypnosis. Not every Sleep Powder, just 75% of them. That's...decent IMO.
Who says he has to dodge every Iron Tail or survive all status effects? You set up before Steelix arrives and use healing items if needed.
Bellsprout does better than Stantler does, and far better against Chuck and Morty for sure.
I just ran through Crystal after being intrigued by a few Pokémon that were mentioned in the thread recently.
View attachment 312232
My Final Team
Vaporeon (SPRITZ) @ Mystic Water [L41]
- Surf
- Aurora Beam
- Bite
- Quick Attack
Victreebel (HEMLOCK) @ Miracle Seed [42]
- Sludge Bomb
- Vine Whip
- Growth
- Sleep Powder
Granbull (PEPPER) @ Quick Claw [41]
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- DynamicPunch
- Strength
Typhlosion (FEVER) @ Charcoal [43]
- Fire Punch
- ThunderPunch
- Fire Blast
- Sunny Day
My Final Opinions
- Vaporeon → C: This requires a detour to Goldenrod and then across Mt. Mortar, to your Mom to activate the DST phone call, and back, but Vaporeon was able to contribute afterward due to instant access to Surf. You can also pick up Mystic Water on your way to Mom. Bite and Aurora beam actually end up being useful coverage for Slowbro / Dragonite in the E4, especially if you get lucky with flinch. I never felt that Vaporeon was "bad," just that the detour required to get it was annoying. The detour combined with its performance makes it solidly C in my mind.
- Snubbull → C (stay) / B (maybe): I never had one bad moment with Snubbull. It was an easy encounter early in the game that picked up levels quickly. Yes, it's slow, but Quick Claw actually helped it out here very often. It actually gets Lick pretty much right before Morty, which helps by being physical and doing enough damage to the ghosts while also potentially paralyzing. I made the logical progression from Headbutt → Strength → Return and backed that up with Shadow Ball. Many times I felt like I was being held back from using Granbull because I had to let Quilava soak up EXP. I'd lean more toward B than C.
- Bellsprout (Crystal) → C (stay) / B (maybe): Bellsprout came early and got easy levels in Union Cave. It evolved into Weepinbell right before the Whitney fight and was able to set up with Growth and sweep with Vine Whip. It also swept Chuck / Pryce the same way and was able to contribute against Claire and a few other boss battles with Sleep Powder + Sludge Bomb spam. This is another Pokémon I never felt "held back" by other than when it stared down Magnemite / Zubat lines. I'd lean more toward B than C. You still have to backtrack for Leaf Stone, but it isn't as egregious as you pass the requisite Picnicker en route to Goldenrod and then have access to a shortcut back after deleting Sudowoodo.
- Typhlosion → B (stay): This is actually the mon that felt the worst out of the four to me surprisingly. The Quilava period was absolutely atrocious, as I couldn't even 2HKO things like Clefairy with Charcoal Ember and an 8 level advantage. I was able to purchase Fire Blast at the exact same time Sunny Day became available (upon completing Radio Tower), so it was able to contribute a little bit more near the end game. Typhlosion didn't really help at all against Claire, but it was the most consistent of these four in the Elite 4, which I think justifies its B placement. It definitely does not deserve to rise to A.
Mind telling me what your levels were like at these points in the game?
Violet City (before fighting Falkner)
Goldenrod Radio Tower (before fighting Team Rocket)
Blackthorn Gym (before fighting Clair)
Very quick question: is switch training allowed?
Also...
UPDATE: Caught Phanpy on my first try! Threw a Poke Ball while she was at full health and she got in.
A few interesting facts about Cyndaquil:
Headbutt > Ember (while taking into account Falkner's badge boost).
0 Atk Quilava Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 39-47 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
Possible damage amounts: (39, 40, 40, 41, 41, 42, 42, 43, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45, 46, 46, 47)
0 SpA Quilava Ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 36-43 (10.5 - 12.6%) -- possible 8HKO -
changed to pure Psychic-type for testing
Possible damage amounts: (36, 36, 37, 37, 37, 39, 39, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 42, 42, 42, 43)
With Whitney's boost...
0 Atk Quilava Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 44-52 (12.9 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO
Possible damage amounts: (44, 44, 45, 45, 46, 46, 47, 47, 48, 48, 49, 49, 50, 50, 51, 52)