Unpopular opinions

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Money I don't think is a scenario in this case. Emerald, Platinum, and HGSS made plenty of money, but GF still ultimately decided to cut the Battle Frontier as the post game location.

I was talking about all the people asking for the Frontier to come back.

Like I said in a previous post, there's almost no chance of it being in the Sinnoh Remakes' base game.

The Frontier requires a lot of effort and manpower to implement. This is why it's always in the 3rd game, where these resources are more plentiful, and this is why ORAS didn't get it.

But, it'd be very possible for the whole Battle Zone post-game to be converted into DLC.
We don't have 3rd versions anymore and thanks to SwSh's DLC success, we likely won't go back to that fleecing again.
This is good. It gives the Frontier time to be polished and done properly. Maybe even expanded.

But of course, there's the question of "will people pay for it?"

There are a lot of people who will cling to the whole "B-But the Frontier was in Platinum's base game! On the DS!" Like a bunch of whiny idiots that hardly understand how the world works and want everything free on a silver platter.

But if people really want the Frontier to be a staple and return, prepare for it to be DLC and put your money where your mouth is. Buy the Frontier DLC.

 

[Siggu]

At the very least they should not add any sort of tease like on ORAS, which is what really rubbed the Battle Frontier fans the wrong way.

 

[Worldie]

But if people really want the Frontier to be a staple and return, prepare for it to be DLC and put your money where your mouth is. Buy the Frontier DLC.

Fact is, there's also a precedent in SwSh itself.

Both DLCs added a facility of their own (Restricted Sparring and Dynamax Adventures), both of which are a significantly better challenge and experience than the Battle Tower can ever dream of being.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Fact is, there's also a precedent in SwSh itself.

Both DLCs added a facility of their own (Restricted Sparring and Dynamax Adventures), both of which are a significantly better challenge and experience than the Battle Tower can ever dream of being.

Both also work as facilities and require similar work to implementing a facility.

It just reinforces my theory on the subject.

 

[Diophantine]

I honestly don't know why people hate on ORAS. It's what got me back into Pokemon.

The lack of a Battle Frontier is disheartening, but completely understandable. They still give you a Tower-esque facility with the option to multi battle with characters you've befriended along your journey. The Delta episode was a great addition to an otherwise story-less post-game event and gave us a previously unobtainable Pokemon in Deoxys. I prefer lore and story to a billion different ways of battling, most of which I won't do more than a few times.

Hoenn was illustrated better, and the only aesthetic complaint I have is that I don't like the Brendan's new design, and Steven was made considerably less respectable (but more human, I guess?). The music went from great to incredible - it makes all the surfing you have to do enjoyable.

Sure the game is easier, but all these easier things are optional. You don't have to use the Lati you're given, the mega stones (which your opponents do use), and you can turn EXP Share off. Heck, they even improved on the rival that everyone complained about in gen 3.

 

[Worldie]

I honestly don't know why people hate on ORAS. It's what got me back into Pokemon.

To be fair I think most of the "hate" on ORAS isn't for the games themselves (which are decent in my opinion), but for the fact that everyone would rather have had "Z" instead.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Sure the game is easier, but all these easier things are optional. You don't have to use the Lati you're given, the mega stones (which your opponents do use), and you can turn EXP Share off. Heck, they even improved on the rival that everyone complained about in gen 3.

They also based the game on RS instead of Emerald, which means weaker leaders.

I was pleasantly surprised when I played it tho. I expected a dumpster fire but it was kinda nice up to the point I played. (iirc I stopped after Wattson.)

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Nintendo/Gamefreak made a smart decision in making Sword and Shield not have National Dex

 

[DreamPrince]

Nintendo/Gamefreak made a smart decision in making Sword and Shield not have National Dex

What's so smart about it?

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Nintendo/Gamefreak made a smart decision in making Sword and Shield not have National Dex

Before the end result was shown, I actually agreed with the reasoning provided.

Animation improvements for a faster PBR-style of battling was a very enticing proposition.

What's so smart about it?

Now Game Freak gets to use returning mons as marketing pieces for DLC.

(I'm aware that you can transfer them with Home on the free update. Look at the DLC trailers tho.)

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Now Game Freak gets to use returning mons as marketing pieces for DLC.

Exactly, and with the possibility of gen 4 remakes, they are also introducing even more pokemon there that don't exist at the moment.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

They also based the game on RS instead of Emerald, which means weaker leaders.

I was pleasantly surprised when I played it tho. I expected a dumpster fire but it was kinda nice up to the point I played. (iirc I stopped after Wattson.)

HGSS was also based on Gold and Silver mainly, and not Crystal. (They even replaced Kris (whose name and appearance are clearly based off of Crystal and its color scheme) with a new girl protagonist in HGSS).

Remakes in general base themselves primarily on the original paired release and not the third version. The main third version integration that they put in is incorporating story elements from the third version as side quests or post-game, for example, the Eusine and Suicune quest being integrated but going into the post-game in HGSS, and ORAS having the whole Delta Episode around Rayquaza post-game (plus getting to battle Wallace with his Emerald team).

The only time a third version ever got full on remade was Yellow being remade with Let's Go.

I expect when they do Sinnoh remakes that it'll be primarily based on DP with story elements from Platinum as a post-game quest. My main apprehension though is the Pokedex: Platinum was the first time they implemented an expanded regional dex so they better incorporate that at least (this wasn't an issue in HGSS and ORAS because Crystal and Emerald didn't expand the regional dexes at all).

 

[Sonikku A]

Animation improvements for a faster PBR-style of battling was a very enticing proposition.

I'm annoyed the text prompts hurts the chances of using longer and better anims regardless. Been like that since Gen 3

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

HGSS was also based on Gold and Silver mainly, and not Crystal. (They even replaced Kris (whose name and appearance are clearly based off of Crystal and its color scheme) with a new girl protagonist in HGSS).

They adapted all elements from Crystal tho.

I'm annoyed the text prompts hurts the chances of using longer and better anims regardless. Been like that since Gen 3

The current attack animations aren't bad, and using the structure that PBR uses (Run, generic attack animation + effect) we'd be good.

The problems are the Idle, Damaged and Sleep animations.

A lot of good animations are wasting away in Amie/Camp. Just implementing them + a proper camera and scaling would do wonders for the game.

 

[Diophantine]

They adapted all elements from Crystal tho.

Well Crystal didn't have many differences from Gold and Silver.

• Pokemon sprites were animated for the first time. (obviously this would be in remakes since it was a 4th gen staple at this point)
• The first ever gender selection and female player trainer. (again, same point)
• New plot elements using Suicune and the Legendary Beasts was integrated into the story. (very small change, not enough to call it an "element")
• Bonus content in the form of the Battle Tower and extra unlockable chambers in the Ruins of Alph. (Battle facilities have been a staple since Crystal so not including would be more abnormal than includding it. the RoA thing is a very small change)
• Certain tilesets being updated. (For example, Burned Tower looks like a small building in GS, while in Crystal it clearly looks like a burned building.) (obviously this doesn't apply)
• The very first in-game event item, the GS Ball which unlocked an encounter with Celebi. (And while this wouldn't apply to international cart copies of Crystal since the method to obtain it was scrapped, it was put back in for the Virtual Console release.) (Granted, HGSS had this, but it was still an event-only thing)

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Well Crystal didn't have many differences from Gold and Silver.

• Pokemon sprites were animated for the first time. (obviously this would be in remakes since it was a 4th gen staple at this point)
• The first ever gender selection and female player trainer. (again, same point)
• New plot elements using Suicune and the Legendary Beasts was integrated into the story. (very small change, not enough to call it an "element")
• Bonus content in the form of the Battle Tower and extra unlockable chambers in the Ruins of Alph. (Battle facilities have been a staple since Crystal so not including would be more abnormal than includding it. the RoA thing is a very small change)
• Certain tilesets being updated. (For example, Burned Tower looks like a small building in GS, while in Crystal it clearly looks like a burned building.) (obviously this doesn't apply)
• The very first in-game event item, the GS Ball which unlocked an encounter with Celebi. (And while this wouldn't apply to international cart copies of Crystal since the method to obtain it was scrapped, it was put back in for the Virtual Console release.) (Granted, HGSS had this, but it was still an event-only thing)

Yeah, but all of them got in.

It's also no coincidence that HGSS is the best received remake.

 

[Sonikku A]

Yeah, but all of them got in.

It's also no coincidence that HGSS is the best received remake.

HGSS didn't fix much though. Then you have Gen 4 slowness
Johto mons are still repped poorly, balancing is still horrid. The mom doesn't even buy rare TMs anymore
Sprites also seemed rushed compared to DPP. A lot are more flatly shaded. And compared to Crystal, 2 frames are still inferior to fully animated redrawn frames
Honestly it's only "the best" due to "muh 2 regions", and the follower mons, adding Frontier and the phys split

 

[Siggu]

While I think HGSS is overrated, I also think it's not getting praise in the areas it absolutely deserves to be praised.

For instance, the interface. It is easily one of the best in the entire series (possibly the best alongside the Gen VII games), and it makes really good use of the touch screen. The Pokédex interface in particular is my favourite in the series.

 

[Sonikku A]

While I think HGSS is overrated, I also think it's not getting praise in the areas it absolutely deserves to be praised.

For instance, the interface. It is easily one of the best in the entire series (possibly the best alongside the Gen VII games), and it makes really good use of the touch screen. The Pokédex interface in particular is my favourite in the series.

Do agree for how well the touchscreen was utilized. It was probably the biggest loss Gen 8 had to be honest
Kinda don't like how the Pokedex looks like the DS Lite menu though. Feels too sterile despite functionality

 

[sb879]

Yeah, but all of them got in.

It's also no coincidence that HGSS is the best received remake.

It is entirely coincidental. Crystal's changes don't matter (as mentioned, they were largely graphical upgrades that aren't relevant for a remake where that is a given), HGSS is well-received because it added a lot of new content and it looks really nice.

 

[mertyville]

I recently watched Tamashii's 'review?' of FireRed and LeafGreen which reminded me of the things that really bothered me about that remake.
The thing I like about Pokemon remakes, even if they were just copy paste of games we played, they use the, at the time, current generation engine giving the gameplay some new twists.
Not to mention, I like the addition of the islands which feel like a nice homage to the orange island arc which should totally get adapted into a future remake (pls no more Kanto, I was joking.)

But it's really horrifying that even if you beat the main game, you still have to play a boring fetch quest to get access to other gen Pokemon per trade.
Like I said once, I don't like the main story of Pokemon unless it's just to experiment with the new Pokemon. I want to use the tools given to start playing competitively and prepare my teams for it. And since the post-game stuff is optional, I feel from time to time more willing to explore areas when I am not forced by the game.
So gym battles, beating evil team and fighting a boring cover Pokemon, to wreak the elite 4 which I will forget the members off once I discover an easier methode to grind feels like paper work than actually an enjoyable experience, especially since it's so boring.

Now imagine how it feels to having to beat the stuff I would hope to be optional. Just glad they didn't do anything like that ever again... except in DDPt forcing you to see all the Pokedex Pokemon before you can transfer stuff from the old gen... like really?

Probably one of the reasons I can always enjoy Gen 1 and 2 despite their flaws. I don't need to beat the entire game to prepare myself to make a competitive team and can trade over Pokemon between the gens without being forced to beat the elite 4.

But B2W2 are still my favorite games.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

HGSS didn't fix much though. Then you have Gen 4 slowness
Johto mons are still repped poorly, balancing is still horrid. The mom doesn't even buy rare TMs anymore
Sprites also seemed rushed compared to DPP. A lot are more flatly shaded. And compared to Crystal, 2 frames are still inferior to fully animated redrawn frames
Honestly it's only "the best" due to "muh 2 regions", and the follower mons, adding Frontier and the phys split

The mom bought rare TMs? When?

Agree that HGSS is overrated though. I can go on for days about why it is, and I consider it a GOOD game.

1. It's way too fanservicey. It seems as if it was made just to pleasure fans, not to actually revolutionize the games and/or tell interesting stories. Have Pokemon follow you, fight all the Gym Leaders again, get all the legendaries, get all the starters, etc...

2. The price is definitely unjustified ($69 is a travesty). That alone makes it overrated - IIRC the high price is a response to the high demand for this game relative to other games - in a way few other games can claim to be.

3. It doesn't fix the messed up level curve that made GSC annoying at times. It made Kanto's trainers stronger than your team when they were weaker, instead of just putting them on the same level, and it did nothing to fix the low levels of wild Pokemon there. Even the added routes and Safari Zone in Johto only fix so much (they do admittedly fix the lack of access to Johto mons and promote versatility, which is definitely good).

4. The barebones story wasn't too bad for a GBC game, but for some reason it's just not really good enough for HGSS. They really should have done more with the story, such as giving Team Rocket the ability to drive Pokemon berserk and capture a legendary Pokemon with radio signals. It was already foreshadowed or implied to be possible in GBC and having TR be much more dangerous in these games would be a dope twist.

5. HGSS kinda lacks this aura of mystery and wonder that GSC had that made traveling Johto so fun.

B1W1 and HGSS are basically reverses of each other. The former was too ''radical'' with its changes (darker tone? actually serious issues in Pokemon? completely new Pokemon and nothing but until the end or maybe Dream World?) and the latter too ''safe'', so to speak (everything I said before). Granted, HGSS really is a lot better at least IMHO but there should be a proper balance between ambition and comfort. B2W2 likely handles this balance a lot better, bringing back many old favorites and having a story that's dark and complex in its own right from what I see and know but not overdoing it. SM and USUM also more or less maintained the balance well. Even the original GSC - arguably the best games ever in Pokemon - maintained this balance really well even in spite of flaws.

 

[pokemon4eva]

At the very least they should not add any sort of tease like on ORAS, which is what really rubbed the Battle Frontier fans the wrong way.

Inb4 in the inevitable gen 4 remake we have Palmer saying after you beat him: "y know I was thinking of searching for other 4 guys and build something great in the future lol". Or Charon just doing nothing (which would be th exact same as his role in Platinum).

I honestly don't know why people hate on ORAS. It's what got me back into Pokemon.

The lack of a Battle Frontier is disheartening, but completely understandable. They still give you a Tower-esque facility with the option to multi battle with characters you've befriended along your journey. The Delta episode was a great addition to an otherwise story-less post-game event and gave us a previously unobtainable Pokemon in Deoxys. I prefer lore and story to a billion different ways of battling, most of which I won't do more than a few times.

Hoenn was illustrated better, and the only aesthetic complaint I have is that I don't like the Brendan's new design, and Steven was made considerably less respectable (but more human, I guess?). The music went from great to incredible - it makes all the surfing you have to do enjoyable.

Sure the game is easier, but all these easier things are optional. You don't have to use the Lati you're given, the mega stones (which your opponents do use), and you can turn EXP Share off. Heck, they even improved on the rival that everyone complained about in gen 3.

I like ORAS as well, it's a 'give and take' case with Emerald. The extra lore, the dexnav, Sea Mauville, the more distinctive Aqua and Magma, etc. And I can believe that something so basic as having the option of turning off the exp share would be a plus someday but here we are I guess...

To be fair I think most of the "hate" on ORAS isn't for the games themselves (which are decent in my opinion), but for the fact that everyone would rather have had "Z" instead.

Nah, the hype for the gen 3 remake at the time really outshined the need of 'Z'. I would prefer the Hoenn remake too since there are flimsy areas in RSE that needed some refinement. Not the case anymore with Gen 4, Platinum aged pretty well imo.

Exactly, and with the possibility of gen 4 remakes, they are also introducing even more pokemon there that don't exist at the moment.

Now, the question would be: Would they update and program the missing mons in SwSh when the inevitable gen 4 remake drops, or would they leave SwSh with no update like they did with XY and the missing Megas?

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Now, the question would be: Would they update and program the missing mons in SwSh when the inevitable gen 4 remake drops, or would they leave SwSh with no update like they did with XY and the missing Megas?

I'd hope that they choose to update it, because if they don't I would have to call that a bad idea.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

really

That wasn't a hard task to do though, considering you're guaranteed to see almost every Pokemon in the regional dex at least once throughout the adventure in that game if you do every Trainer Battle out there. The only mons you had to go out of your way for were Unown and the non-mascot cover legendary, the former of which was a wild encounter in one very elusive area and the latter they give you a seen dex entry for.

They adapted all elements from Crystal tho.

What I was mainly thinking of is that aside from what everyone else has said, HGSS's Pokemon availability and encounter tables were GS's encounter tables and not Crystal's. Sneasel for example was available in the Ice Path in Crystal, but in HGSS it's back to only being available in Mt. Silver. Hoppip, Teddiursa, and Phanpy were also made available earlier in Crystal but not in HGSS.

Of course, it also went back to making Ho-oh/Lugia available before the E4, and in a way also pushed you to go to their dungeon and battle them by turning their encounter into a mini-quest with the Kimono Girls, instead of Crystal pushing you to go face Suicune at the Tin Tower with a group of Sages testing you. So it's primarily GS-based in that sense, with a loose integration of Crystal's story into it (aka Eusine being in the game).

Now, the question would be: Would they update and program the missing mons in SwSh when the inevitable gen 4 remake drops, or would they leave SwSh with no update like they did with XY and the missing Megas?

I would imagine they will be patched into Sword and Shield, but will not have Pokedex entries. They're clearly open to patching Pokemon into a game nowadays, and even without the DLC you can still use the DLC-added Pokemon if you update the game with the most recent patch. So I imagine they will at least try to ensure that you can legally use and have the Pokemon that are added in the Sinnoh remakes, but they will be treated as non-Galar native Pokemon without a dex entry like many of the Dynamax Adventure Pokemon are.