Unpopular opinions

Siggu said:
That's odd. I thought they were just reusing existing animations.
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If you pay a close attention, they probably do re-use pieces of the old animations, but the "retexturing" is going through during the animation, as well as the "taunt" animation or collapsing animations.
Dynamax - de/dynamax animations are definitely their own thing.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Seriously, where did this idea that kids have such a short attention span they'll drop the game if it presents them a little challenge come from? Is there some research that shows this is the case? This feels more like a stereotype thing than something which actually happens, I can only imagine the most inattentive kid just giving up something if it gives them even a small bit of challenge (and if that's the case I don't think they would have played the game long enough to get to Allister because they would probably not be able to sit through the story cutscenes). I've come to talk any excuse GF comes up with a grain of salt, because they either have lied or done things contradictory to excuses they've made it sounds like they made it up on the spot to get around the real reason which would put them in a negative light (aka they're lazy, interests are misplaced, and/or recently have been rushed to push out games when they need a few more years to make it more fully developed).
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Seriously cannot like this post enough. I agree COMPLETELY.
 
Worldie said:
Yes, quality wise they are, but from what I learned from back when people tried to "force" nonpresent pokemon in the game, they are separate data files, thus obviously extra work.
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Wait... are you implying that the growing animation and the explosion animation are actually two additional models!? :psynervous:

Volt-Ikazuchi said:
There really aren't any new animations for old mons outside of a couple tweaks and some Dynamax cry animations.
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Well a few old mons were probably given some additional animations for the reaction when judging the taste of the curry you made.

aegon the unlikely said:
Seriously cannot like this post enough. I agree COMPLETELY.
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Thanks! :bloblul:
 
aegon the unlikely said:
Tried to quote you in my sig but it got cut lol
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Hmm, here's a truncated (and better worded) version:

Seriously, where did this idea that kids have a short attention span with games come from? Is there any research the shows they'll drop a game if it presents them a little challenge? It's a stereotype with no basis. Only the most inattentive kid would give up that easily (I doubt they would have even reached Allister let alone sit through all the cutscenes). Take anything GF says with a grain of salt cause they've lied or been contradictory in the past (likely to hide laziness, misplaced interest, or rushed the game out early).
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Sonikku A said:
Growing models really shouldn't be a separate model, unless GF are stupid
....then again shinies are a separate model...
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The Dynamax models shouldn't even be separate models! There should instead just be a script that tells the game to increase a Pokemon's model up to a set limit (for both height and length) and have the red clouds just vaguely floating above where the Pokemon would be standing.

aegon the unlikely said:
They should nix this Dynamax/Gigantamax stuff in the next game and just bring the old 3DS models and Pokemon back in full.
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They likely will. GF heavily pushed the idea Dynamax is only a Galar thing, the super mechanic of next game will either be different or maybe we'll revisit Mega Evolution and/or Z-Moves but tweaked with what they learned from Dynamax.

Not sure what you mean by "the old 3DS models", the models they're using ARE the old 3DS models. In Gen VI they "future-proofed" each Pokemon model by making them all have way more tris then they'll need for a long time, which sort of backfired as I think that's one reason why the 3DS games lagged a bit, but upon coming to the Switch the system can handle them much easily. They probably won't even need to update the models for the next few generations.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
The Dynamax models shouldn't even be separate models! There should instead just be a script that tells the game to increase a Pokemon's model up to a set limit (for both height and length) and have the red clouds just vaguely floating above where the Pokemon would be standing.
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Well, I never implied it was the *correct* thing to do (as developer myself, it makes me cringe), I'm just stating what is the reality however.
I'm unsure if they're entire isolated models, but Dinamax definitely has its own dedicated animations, even though they're essentially reskinned versions of base ones, which is why "freshly imported" hacked pokemon made the game crash or had to use placeholder animations for Dynamaxing.

Something Something 7 Lilie models


Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.
 
Worldie said:
Well, I never implied it was the *correct* thing to do (as developer myself, it makes me cringe), I'm just stating what is the reality however.
I'm unsure if they're entire isolated models, but Dinamax definitely has its own dedicated animations, even though they're essentially reskinned versions of base ones, which is why "freshly imported" hacked pokemon made the game crash or had to use placeholder animations for Dynamaxing.

Something Something 7 Lilie models


Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.
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But a small part nonetheless, and arguably smaller than you'd think, given that walkthroughs are a thing and the Internet even more so.
 
aegon the unlikely said:
But a small part nonetheless, and arguably smaller than you'd think, given that walkthroughs are a thing and the Internet even more so.
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You're hitting a wrong wall there, I have no faith in the latest generations or their abilities to comprehend written text (even less so if in English), or even put the effort to look for a guide where I live :bloblul: but, this isn't related to Pokemon and nothing I'm willing to discuss here.
 
Worldie said:
You're hitting a wrong wall there, I have no faith in the latest generations or their abilities to comprehend written text (even less so if in English), or even put the effort to look for a guide where I live :bloblul: but, this isn't related to Pokemon and nothing I'm willing to discuss here.
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That sounds more like a you problem, quite frankly (And this ''latest generations bad'' is like one of the oldest tropes in the book), but oh well.
 
Honestly I don't know what yall talking about, but kids this generation are smart as fuck. Makes me feel like a dumbass sometimes. I'm sure they can piece out more complicated stuff easier than we expect. Unless japanese kids are dumb as hell for some reason lol

Of course very complex stuff isn't exactly kid friendly, but considering evs and ivs haven't been revamped to actually be intuitive, it's not like pokemon hasn't made complex stuff
 
Worldie said:
Something Something 7 Lilie models
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Was it only 7? I recall the "issue" there being they had a Lillie model stashed away someplace on maps where they had a cutscene with her. Infact wouldn't be surprised if they also did that with Hau, Team Skull, etc. but Lillie was just more notable cause you encountered her much more times than any other character.

And while I can see novice programmers facepalming doing this instead of just having the game load in & out the character models they need, from what I understand some professional programmers would actually agree that, if the game had enough memory for it, having the models just loaded up somewhere is quicker and less likely to glitch than loading them in & out. And that's the key word here: "had enough memory". How much data did just loading an extra character model take, no more than any other NPC on the map I imagine. It's not a big issue as it's such a small amount of data I can see the argument for it, less chance to glitch over small amount of memory saved that wouldn't have been used otherwise anyway.

But Dynamax is different as it's not just a single small model of a few characters loaded on maps where that character has a cutscene, rather it's every Pokemon (plus alternate forms and Shiny) which they made a huge model of that you know they didn't compress. Now, for all I know the big models didn't take up that much more space than the smaller models, but it definitely felt like they wasted a lot of time on the Dynamax models (I think the red lighting effect may also be unique to each model now thinking about it). Overall GF went for style over quality this gen and I feel it backfired as it meant they had to cause a controversy to do it and no one was that impressed with the normal Dynamax Pokemon (the only thing people liked was the mechanics behind it which could have been done without making them big).

Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.
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Well, I don't know what to say about those kids (hopefully they'll grow out of it). But simplifying the games just so for those kids sound like a shallow rabbit hole you shouldn't be heading head first into. Don't know what experience those kids are exactly looking for but it ain't a fulfilling one and sounds like they'll probably just go back to Fortnite (nothing against the game, though I can see it being the go-to games for those with that personality, only going to other games when they get frustrated but come back once they cooled off; aka no matter how good/simple those other games are it's just a break from their true game of interest).
 
Pikachu315111 said:
And while I can see novice programmers facepalming doing this instead of just having the game load in & out the character models they need, from what I understand some professional programmers would actually agree that, if the game had enough memory for it, having the models just loaded up somewhere is quicker and less likely to glitch than loading them in & out.
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For what matters i can confirm you this is done in plenty of modern games, though, we're talking of PS4/5 games that happen to have slightly higher processing power than a 3ds.
Pikachu315111 said:
Well, I don't know what to say about those kids (hopefully they'll grow out of it). But simplifying the games just so for those kids sound like a shallow rabbit hole you shouldn't be heading head first into. Don't know what experience those kids are exactly looking for but it ain't a fulfilling one and sounds like they'll probably just go back to Fortnite (nothing against the game, though I can see it being the go-to games for those with that personality, only going to other games when they get frustrated but come back once they cooled off; aka no matter how good/simple those other games are it's just a break from their true game of interest).
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Let's say you kind of struck one of the reasons for which Fortnite, Hearthstone and Mobas, and hell, even Pokemon Go are so popular nowadays, while other genres like RTS are slowly fading out of popularity: it's games you can pick up, play a match or two, and quit istantly when bored (as well as altf4 with very little penalty most of the time), with no preparation or commitment required.

As I said a few times, I don't think GameFreak's opinion on "modern kids liking games they can pick and drop on the fly" is wrong. Might not be due to low attention span or lazyness or dumbness, but they are spot on on the read.
 
With the whole matter of the copied models and memory, it's worth taking into account this: the 3DS has a processor with a frequency of only 268 MHz... and 128 MB of RAM, which is immense compared to the processor.

It makes sense that they'd just copy the model on to the map as they had way too much RAM for the processor the console has.
 
If the inevitable gen 4 remake debuts in gen 8, make for sure it will have dynamax mechanic and new gigantamaxes, probably will be part of the story and lore of Sinnoh (like it needs it, Sinnoh's lore is already well defined imo).

I keep saying inevitable because I know it will happen, but the public is so desperate to not realize we are following a already set formula. The question is when, and I would lose a substancial amount of hope if it drops this year...
 
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I think we're missing the point when we ask whether modern kids appreciate the difficult and complexity offered by features like the Frontier. Kids across all time periods tend to connect to games on some kind of deeper level. This "deeper level" has always had multiple paths beyond the challenge and depth of gameplay itself. It could be connecting to characters with fanart or fanfics, or finding a sense of community with friends or with a personality.

It is hard for modern Pokemon to deeply engage modern kids specifically on difficulty and complexity, harder than for Red/Blue to its kids, but this isn't necessarily the kids' or GameFreak's fault. I blame the Internet. No, really.

I see two main types of difficulty for kids to impress their friends with. First is single player accomplishment, like the Frontier, where you complete, discover, or otherwise do something on your own. Second is PvP victory, like link battles, where you beat your friends directly. Worldie has already said some reasons why PvP victory has risen in popularity among kids these days, but I'll take another angle.

Impressing your friends through single player accomplishment is a lot harder in the age of the Internet. If you want to do something difficult in a Pokemon game, chances are a thousand people have already done it, and a hundred have uploaded YouTube videos on it. Less impressive. Further, Pokemon accomplishments themselves are almost automatically less hard because you have so much more information access, even if the trainers and battles don't change at all, and exciting discovery can feel almost impossible. It's a lot easier to excel within your in person friend group than within the entire world.

"Why don't they make Pokemon games actually hard, so the accomplishments would be more impressive and worthwhile to kids?" Even if you ignore stuff like alienating casual audience, Pokemon doesn't have the monopoly over kids' minds it used to. No game does. The internet has made such an enormous number of games known, accessible, and hosting communities in case your friends don't appreciate Dark Souls like you do. So, not only will your friends care less about the game you did well in, but if you go to a community that cares about this sort of thing instead, there's a ton of specialists that are probably out your league. (Game personalities can exist because they distinguish themselves from the specialists either by gathering an audience better while still being comparably good, or just being better.)
 
This is also probably why most game devs now bluntly state a characters personality and then not expand on it. If they try to be secretive and develop the character more in other ways...it'll be spoiled on the web immediately
 
I don’t quite agree there. Not only do I associate flat characters more with past games (not specific to Pokemon, but for an example: remember when people though Silver was intricate and fleshed out?), but unlike with difficulty and bragging rights, players usually can choose to not spoil themselves. You can’t tell all your friends to not watch gameplay.
 
All I'm honestly seeing are assumptions about how kids today are different from kids in the past because fOrTnItE lOL. While Fortnite IS popular, I genuinely question its existence or that of similar games has really hurt Pokemon any. It's literally an ENTIRELY different kind of game. Saying it undermines demand for Pokemon is like saying fast food establishments hurt fine dining or the NFL somehow undermines soccer from being more popular in America or to dumb it down even a little more...the existence of candy undermines the demand for chicken. I don't buy that honestly and while I might be wrong, it doesn't really make sense from an economic perspective. Zelda, Mario, or Fire Emblem would be a far better ''substitute'' than Pokemon due to all three being fun, globally popular RPGs with memorable characters and appearing on similar consoles. But Fortnite? Lol no.

Not even sure how the Internet somehow makes kids less motivated to play Pokemon when, in fact, it should make kids MORE motivated to do so due to the fact they can hunt down tier lists and/or walkthroughs online - even ones on YouTube - that they might not have been able to do before as easily. The plethora of sources, the awareness said sources exist, and the level of access to them are simply unmatched today. The Internet is literally the REASON why shiny hunting and stuff like that has become a fad, as well as why people care to do stuff like Nuzlockes, Wedlockes, and other Pokemon challenges and then stream all of that on YouTube, talk about it on Reddit or here, etc...the fact it's actually being confused for a reason for people to turn AWAY from Pokemon in favor of Fortnite or other ''quick'' games is genuinely mindboggling. I literally do not get it.

I mean, just looking at one of the tier lists already present on this website or a YouTube video is all a kid needs to do to get through Pokemon if they've never played it before, and these happen to be pretty fun as well as informative. Pokemon isn't even difficult unless you Nuzlocke it or something (and even then it's easy to win if you take the time to heal Pokemon instead of risking them like I have a bad tendency to do and/or use X-Item spam to ensure you can power through major matchups as I did against even Red), it's not Sekiro or Dark Souls by any means.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
They likely will. GF heavily pushed the idea Dynamax is only a Galar thing, the super mechanic of next game will either be different or maybe we'll revisit Mega Evolution and/or Z-Moves but tweaked with what they learned from Dynamax.
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Not if they decided to shoehorn Dynamax (alongside Eternatus) in Sinnoh, a region with an already heavily established lore. If they do, this will greatly hurt what uniqueness both Galar and Sinnoh tried to have.

But we can be confident that the next generation will invent a new super mechanic, hopefully nowhere as absurd as Dynamax. I feel like that mechanic already overstayed its welcome quickly, even faster than Mega Evolution or Z-Moves ever did.
 
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