If a mon that abuses Boots is also broken, then just ban the mon. No need to ban boots and then make Moltres hit an even bigger low. Whether or not Torn-T is too much for the metagame is debatable but it does have some counters like Zapdos, Koko, and Zera along with a few good checks/soft checks like Specs Pult, Slowking, Blissey, Weavile, etc. However there is an argument that Torn p much forces you to run these mons, but this is something for another day. Also didn’t I just list a good number of checks and counters to Volc? More on that later.
I believe what Musique was referring to was Gren in Gen 6, not Gen 7. ORAS Gren was very similar to Ace. Both have great coverage, the same ability, and were fast asf.
Musique brought up Scyther as an argument on Boots being unhealthy. Boots are supposedly too much for the metagame yet shit like Ninjask and Noivern can hardly even scratch OU. For a move, ability, or item to be broken, it has to make a garbage mon into an uncompetitive mess. (Gothitelle, Glalie, Dugtrio, etc). You missed the point Muisque and everyone else was trying to bring up.
What point exactly? These two mons play differently. One is a breaker with Roost for longevity, the other is an offensive pivot with high powered moves and a great speed tier.
Also wtf are you talking about in regards to Volc? I straight up listed 14 good checks and counters to Volcarona. All of these mons are highly meta relevant with most of them being Top 20 or Top 10 material respectively.
Yes Boots made some mons better/way better in the metagame, but it didn’t break these mons. Ace prob would’ve still gotten banned even if Boots weren’t in the game. Remember Mence from DPPT? Remember Torn-T and Thundy from BW? Remember the monstrocity that was Mega-Mence? All these mons are rock weak but guess what, they all got banned. They had banworthy traits that pushed them to Uber material. Even if you take away Ace’s boots you still only have five fucking counters to it in the whole game. Lando and Chomp will still get worn down quickly especially since Ace would be able to run LO/Band now. Slowbro is U-Turn bait, and Hippo is 2HKOd after rocks in an alternate timeline where LO Ace is a thing. It means run Pex or die. To put it simply, Boots added to Ace’s brokenness, but even without it Ace is still broken cause a reminder that it has only five counters in the whole game. Torn and Slowbro being broken is up to debate, and if they are then simply ban them instead of Boots. I know for a fact Mandi and Koko aren’t breaking the game with boots equipped.
As I said earlier, boots made dangerous mons that much more difficult to deal with but that doesn't necessarily mean they're broken. Cinderace was the only exception since boots removed its one down side. How many times do I have to repeat this god damn sentence?
So what point am I when making these comparisons? Just give me a yes or no as this point is rather simple. In fact, just give a like if you're answer is yes or haha if no. Do you want dangerous mons like Zard Y to come in unscathed over the course of the entire battle?
Oh and that Scyther thing, go read that policy review that FInch posted a while back and there was a post that specifically said boots made Scyther near unbearable. Just because a certain mon can't break into ou doesn't necessarily mean that the point doesn't stand
Yes you listed all those checks but that's it, they're checks. You do realize that if pokemon x checks pokemon y, then y can still very feasibly beat x on its own? Do you think Garchomp or Lando will be able to check Volcarona if they're both taking minor chip damage every time they come in? You know the answer. They won't as sooner or later, they will be put in range of Volcarona's +1 stabs
This is the last post I'm gonna make about this topic so just answer the question I asked in the second paragraph as that was the main point of why I brought up boots in the first place
 
 
		 
 
		














 
 
		
 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		



 
 
		 
 
		










 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		 picked up in usage during the past couple of weeks in spl. its is pretty clear this pokemon is on a rise in tournament usage with a great offensive presence due to its great typing in bug/steel and its great offensive movepool in a stab bullet punch and packed up with swords dance this pokemon quickly will become a manace. the great typng makes it able to offensivly pressure rillaboom, which is really great at the moment and it can also pressure a lot of other current pokemon in the metagame including slowking, clefable, and kartana missing out on its neutral coverage in sacred sword. scizor really made an impact and paired with voltturn-cores it is not that difficult to pilot it on the field to get up a swords dance and i feel we will see more in the future on this pokemon.
 picked up in usage during the past couple of weeks in spl. its is pretty clear this pokemon is on a rise in tournament usage with a great offensive presence due to its great typing in bug/steel and its great offensive movepool in a stab bullet punch and packed up with swords dance this pokemon quickly will become a manace. the great typng makes it able to offensivly pressure rillaboom, which is really great at the moment and it can also pressure a lot of other current pokemon in the metagame including slowking, clefable, and kartana missing out on its neutral coverage in sacred sword. scizor really made an impact and paired with voltturn-cores it is not that difficult to pilot it on the field to get up a swords dance and i feel we will see more in the future on this pokemon. it is very reliable in what it is supposed to do, pressuring with future sight and teleporting out, futureport on this pokemon has really caught up over the weeks, and it quickly shows a special wall is very appreciated on a plethora of teams, a special wall which in conjunction can help pressuring the opponent. slowking doesnt like strong pokemon such as landorus-t and garchomp, and zeraora but paired with ferrothorn, which can also spike tack for it, and other great threats it is really a force to recognize in 2 aspects, getting progress and checking strong special threats.
 it is very reliable in what it is supposed to do, pressuring with future sight and teleporting out, futureport on this pokemon has really caught up over the weeks, and it quickly shows a special wall is very appreciated on a plethora of teams, a special wall which in conjunction can help pressuring the opponent. slowking doesnt like strong pokemon such as landorus-t and garchomp, and zeraora but paired with ferrothorn, which can also spike tack for it, and other great threats it is really a force to recognize in 2 aspects, getting progress and checking strong special threats. is also a strong pokemon, especially its nasty plot-set caught up over the weeks with great coverage in focus blast or heat wave it is enabled to dent holes in the opposing team pretty easily in the late-game which it is able to clean up. the inaccuracy of its stab hurricane and its strongest coverage in focus blast might hurt it a little bit, but this gets compensated with just u-turning out, gaining regenerator recovery, and helping other  teammates to gain or maintain momentum. tornadus-therian has the tools to make progress. furthermore its defensive defog-set is also capable of supporting its team altogether as with regenerator it has an ability to keep up the health to defog pretty reliably.
 is also a strong pokemon, especially its nasty plot-set caught up over the weeks with great coverage in focus blast or heat wave it is enabled to dent holes in the opposing team pretty easily in the late-game which it is able to clean up. the inaccuracy of its stab hurricane and its strongest coverage in focus blast might hurt it a little bit, but this gets compensated with just u-turning out, gaining regenerator recovery, and helping other  teammates to gain or maintain momentum. tornadus-therian has the tools to make progress. furthermore its defensive defog-set is also capable of supporting its team altogether as with regenerator it has an ability to keep up the health to defog pretty reliably. this pokemon is really great right now and should not be underestimated at all, its offensive prowess is really great and grassy glide is a damn good priority move, coupled with superpower, knock off, and u-turn or swords dance this pokemon can reliably put pressure on opposing teams, the rise of corviknights usage hurts it a little, but with pokemon like zeraora, magnezone, or tapu koko it has the teammates to help vs corviknight and the less used skarmory. they also help versus mandibuzz.
 this pokemon is really great right now and should not be underestimated at all, its offensive prowess is really great and grassy glide is a damn good priority move, coupled with superpower, knock off, and u-turn or swords dance this pokemon can reliably put pressure on opposing teams, the rise of corviknights usage hurts it a little, but with pokemon like zeraora, magnezone, or tapu koko it has the teammates to help vs corviknight and the less used skarmory. they also help versus mandibuzz. is such a great pokemon currently, its specs-set nukes when its best checks are weakened and i really think this pokemon will see a bright future in tournament games, as it has picked up alot - i also feel its other set in choice scarf is a great tool to have some sort of speed control combined with hard hitting psychic-type stabs under its terrain.
 is such a great pokemon currently, its specs-set nukes when its best checks are weakened and i really think this pokemon will see a bright future in tournament games, as it has picked up alot - i also feel its other set in choice scarf is a great tool to have some sort of speed control combined with hard hitting psychic-type stabs under its terrain. this pokemon recently sees a sort of a combeack again, sheer force life orb boosted stabs and coverage ain't no joke to switch into, and it has the offensive presence to put a lot of pressure on bulkier builds such as balance. sub and taunt versions alike are able to get things goings, sub makes revengekilling nidoking so much harder and is especially troublesome for balance to tackle, and i think we will see more of this pokemon in the future.
 this pokemon recently sees a sort of a combeack again, sheer force life orb boosted stabs and coverage ain't no joke to switch into, and it has the offensive presence to put a lot of pressure on bulkier builds such as balance. sub and taunt versions alike are able to get things goings, sub makes revengekilling nidoking so much harder and is especially troublesome for balance to tackle, and i think we will see more of this pokemon in the future. and our ghosty-dragon
 and our ghosty-dragon  .
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