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Vegetarianism
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However good somebody is at their best eating no meat, they will be slightly better with meat. Meat is THE best and truest source of testosterone, which is essential for building the most muscle you can. Oysters, beef, and chicken are the three biggest sources, and if one also eschews eggs, then the best one can get is from eggs, broccoli, garlic, and cauliflower, all much less than the meat though!
I am not feeling weak, and I have not eaten vegetables or fruit more than passingly the last six years (and went a full two years without eating any at one point, while getting in the best shape of my life!)
I am not feeling weak, and I have not eaten vegetables or fruit more than passingly the last six years (and went a full two years without eating any at one point, while getting in the best shape of my life!)
Capt kirby, meat protein isn't as healthy for you as soy protein, so vegetarians don't need to consume as much protein.
Meat products are the largest source of fat in the American diet.
Vegetarians have a longer life expectancy, a lower rate of cancer, heart disease, stroke, and osteoporosis.
So how are people better with meat?
My source for this information is William Castelli, MD and director of the Frammingham Heart Study at the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute.
&
Marion Nestle, Chairmen of the Nutrition Department at NYU.
Meat products are the largest source of fat in the American diet.
Vegetarians have a longer life expectancy, a lower rate of cancer, heart disease, stroke, and osteoporosis.
So how are people better with meat?
My source for this information is William Castelli, MD and director of the Frammingham Heart Study at the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute.
&
Marion Nestle, Chairmen of the Nutrition Department at NYU.
Titles don't mean shit, it's called conformation bias, and people who want something to be true will find ways to make it true. So, details on these studies please.
I eat meat, I've grown up in a rural area, I know people who hunt, I watch animals hunt. I have a better undestanding of nature through experience than vegetarian/vegan hippies do in their 'research' In order for things to live things need to die, and I'd rather live off the flesh of animals than take a bunch of weird chemical supplements for my dumb attempt at the moral high ground.
Life it not all pretty and flowery. It can be yes, there are plenty of wonderful things to experience in life, but it ain't all that. Death is around, death is necessary, Humans, like all omnivores, are built to eat meat. Sure we can live without it, but it ain't what we're built for.
On an unrelated note: Factory farming, despite how cruel it may be, is necessary,. Modern agriculture is how the Americas and Europe get fed, its how we can support this population. If it wasn't for this agriculture we'd be like Africa. Subsistence farming and 'organic' food is bad of us all. It is not sustainable.
kind of off topic here but id be pissed if some internet random told me my Phd didnt mean shit and that my studies were flawed because i wanted to prove something with the results. youre allowed to ask for details but lets not be assholes right off the bat.
if small scale/organic farming isnt sustainable, how is factory farming sustainable exactly?
I dont disagree that the way it is now, industrial scale meat farming is necessary to sustain our current habits, and its probably too late to change those habits on a large scale.
I'm not trying to call you out but most vegetarians and nearly all vegans only eat organic food, which has no chemicalls of any kind.
Most meat eaters dont eat organic food at all. One one large chain supermarket even sells organic meat.
Plus there is the whole chicken thing. Scientists have been pushing for years to change the name of chickens that humans eat to a different species name. We have altered the chickens so much on a genetic level that they arn't chickens anymore.....YUM!
And also, if we took all the land that we are using to produce meat, and grew vegies on it, we could feed the entire worlds population with ease. I know for a fact that you pulled this statement...
....out of your ass. If there is any one topic I know more than most people, its about how wistful factory faming is.
It really bugs the hell out of me when people say that vegetraians are healthier than people who eat meat. This is very untrue, you can still eat unhealthily as a vegetarian, being a vegetarian doesn't mean you will live longer and get less diseases. Out of my firends, two of them are vegetarians and they are the only two fat friends of mine. Being a vegetarian does not make you healthy, it is healthy to eat a balanced diet, which includes vegetables, but meat is also important.
Also, where did you get those figures, 1 lb of meat per 3 acres? I'm confused, so 1 herd of cows would have hundreds of acres of field?
OOPS I was wrong when I said 2495 gallons of water produce a lb of meat its 2464-2530
For one Lb of...it takes this many gallons of water to make a lb
Lettuce-23 gallons
Tomatoes-23 gallons
Potatoes-24 ''
Wheat-25 ''
Carrots-33''
So its easy to see how the meat industry uses up our worlds fresh water supply.
Now when it comes to land
Cattle alive today-1.2 billion
Area of earth total land mass used as pasture for cattle and live stalk-One Half
Grass lands need to support one lb of beef-2.5 acres (oops not 3)
Randome fun fact!!!!!! 77% of the worlds corn supply is fed to animals
Sources are ones mentioned before, Dr. Gerog Borgstrom, and The Water Education Foundation, and 49 Nobel Prise winning scientist.
Sorry for the double post.
For one Lb of...it takes this many gallons of water to make a lb
Lettuce-23 gallons
Tomatoes-23 gallons
Potatoes-24 ''
Wheat-25 ''
Carrots-33''
So its easy to see how the meat industry uses up our worlds fresh water supply.
Now when it comes to land
Cattle alive today-1.2 billion
Area of earth total land mass used as pasture for cattle and live stalk-One Half
Grass lands need to support one lb of beef-2.5 acres (oops not 3)
Randome fun fact!!!!!! 77% of the worlds corn supply is fed to animals
Sources are ones mentioned before, Dr. Gerog Borgstrom, and The Water Education Foundation, and 49 Nobel Prise winning scientist.
Sorry for the double post.
The argument that farming animals is less efficient than farming crops on the same land for me is the most compelling reason to switch to a mostly vegetarian diet, the emphasis being on the italic word. Moral arguments aside, there is an optimal amount of food that can be produced between vegetarianism and growing nothing but animals. Fish make up a significant portion of the global food intake, and some areas on Earth can only provide food through livestock.
Unless we all resort to vitamin B12 extracts from bacteria/faeces, veganism is ultimately fatal and will provide less food than a mixed diet.
Unless we all resort to vitamin B12 extracts from bacteria/faeces, veganism is ultimately fatal and will provide less food than a mixed diet.
Ambitions, I am not making the argument because of protein - I am making it because of testosterone, something essential to consume more of for ease and optimization of muscle building. Also, have you heard of lean meat?! No, okay, I assume that you are ignoring the existence of such to help bias in favor of your argument, which is fine, but I would love to point out that I can find plenty of meat with 2 to 4 grams of fat per 16 to 20 grams of protein. I for one eat almost all lean meat.
I will say that V for Vespa's 'are you crazy?' comment was errant and rude concerning the topic of resources needed to provide animals for consumption compared to the resources needed to provide vegetables for consumption. You have to provide more vegetables for a similar amount of meat consumption than would otherwise be eaten by a human in vegetables, so Ambitions and cookie are absolutely right, in my estimation, on that issue!
I will say that V for Vespa's 'are you crazy?' comment was errant and rude concerning the topic of resources needed to provide animals for consumption compared to the resources needed to provide vegetables for consumption. You have to provide more vegetables for a similar amount of meat consumption than would otherwise be eaten by a human in vegetables, so Ambitions and cookie are absolutely right, in my estimation, on that issue!
I would become a vegetarian, but after 15 years of eating meat, I realized that it was too good to give up.
I have a couple questions about the viability of veganism:
* How exactly does one produce organic B12? IIRC, supplemental B12 is mostly produced by using specific bacteria. I don't think that count as organic, but I might be wrong on that.
* Besides soy, what other plant-derived protein sources exist? Are any of them anywhere near as "effective" as soy (that is, are they sufficient as a main protein source in lieu of animal protein)?
Really, that's it. I lean towards cookie's perspective currently, which is (if I read him properly) that the energy pyramid makes animal cultivation hideously inefficient, and thus most of one's nutrition ought to come from plants; however, some areas of the planet can only produce livestock.
* How exactly does one produce organic B12? IIRC, supplemental B12 is mostly produced by using specific bacteria. I don't think that count as organic, but I might be wrong on that.
* Besides soy, what other plant-derived protein sources exist? Are any of them anywhere near as "effective" as soy (that is, are they sufficient as a main protein source in lieu of animal protein)?
Really, that's it. I lean towards cookie's perspective currently, which is (if I read him properly) that the energy pyramid makes animal cultivation hideously inefficient, and thus most of one's nutrition ought to come from plants; however, some areas of the planet can only produce livestock.
My apologies, I meant that the details of the study are what matters, not the titles of the source. I did not mean education does not matter period. You have my respect for your effort, all I was saying is that phd does not mean always right particularly on subjects so prone to bias. As of yet no one has even tried to give details, making this more suspect.
Meat protein its self digests differently in the human body that soy protein. Meat protein is fattier, which is why doctors say it causes so many problems.
Farm fish have to be fed fish oil in order to survive. The only place to get this is by killing fish, (DUH) because of this and many other issues 90% of the worlds fish population has been wiped out. Eating fish is going to die of fast in the near future. No matter how hard corporations try to down play it, its finally getting out into the public. TIME actually just wrote and article all about it.
I just took a quick gander at the soy milk I drink everyday which contains 50% ones needed B12 daily intake. (And its organic) Between that and some of the heath bars I eat through out the day, thats how I get my B12, I know there are other ways, I'm just not all knowing on the subject.
Tempeh and nuts.
I dont really know to much about this. I do know that there are an unhealthy amount of unnatural hormones in chicken and beef. Isn't testostarone supposed to fight arthritis and osteoporosis? Because I know that is dramatically more common in meat eaters.
I am aware of this, and yes it is counter-productive and inefficient, and is practiced because in the short term it is more profitable because of the market value of farmed species. However, if you catch fish sustainably there is no need to stop eating fish, just eat less of it or catch other species. It isn't a boundless resource, but it is manageable.
I'd check where most of that B12 comes from. Plant sources of the vitamin have it in low concentrations, such that other sources are required.
Cookie, I'm sure that would could manage our fish consumption to a good lvl (pokemon abriviations are drilled into my brain) but the fact is, the fish population isn't extramaly low because of the amount of fish humans eat.
I just read this in The Food Resources of The Ocean.
Amount of worlds fish catch fed to live stock: 50%
John Robbins also backs this up in The Food Revolution.
And there is all those sharks we catch in nets every year. I think any one that has done any moderate to deep research on the topic know that if we don't change now, our oceans are FUCKED.
Was every thing I just said kinda off topic from what you where talking about?
I just read this in The Food Resources of The Ocean.
Amount of worlds fish catch fed to live stock: 50%
John Robbins also backs this up in The Food Revolution.
And there is all those sharks we catch in nets every year. I think any one that has done any moderate to deep research on the topic know that if we don't change now, our oceans are FUCKED.
Was every thing I just said kinda off topic from what you where talking about?
Vegetarianism is simply a response to our human emotion. In nature, animals do not think,"I am not going to kill you, because that would be violent." Hitler was a vegetarian too.
Blastoise- I really don't what you mean by that. In nature animals live of others in order to survive.
While vegans boycot meat products to help achieve a sustainable society for our future, for survival.
I guess its opinionated.
And weather we all want to admit it or not, Hitler did wonders for the German economy. Before the whole world war two and Im gona stick all the jews in ovens thing, he was a ridiculously smart leader.
None the less, he is still a sick fuck.
While vegans boycot meat products to help achieve a sustainable society for our future, for survival.
I guess its opinionated.
And weather we all want to admit it or not, Hitler did wonders for the German economy. Before the whole world war two and Im gona stick all the jews in ovens thing, he was a ridiculously smart leader.
None the less, he is still a sick fuck.
How does hurting the meat producing economy, help a sustainable future? Hitler also killed 11 million people. He was constantly constipated, and was on several drugs including heroin.
Because the meat producing economy is all big business that terribly underpays there workers, and tries and successfully does run family farms and small businesses out of work. I mean, is that not common sense???
It all so face fucks the environment like no other. 18% of the carbon dioxide on out atmosphere is produced by the meat industry, and it uses 67% of our worlds fresh water supply.
This will greatly effect the biodiversity of our planet in years to come.
The Ogallala aquaifer will be dry with in 50 years undoubtedly, and because of the meat industry. And I really hope you all know what that means.
Source?
ambitiond said:
Yes, 90% of the world's fish population has been destroyed. 75% of the earth's surface is water. I'm sure that we humans are so omnipotently powerful that we, with our mere 6 billion in numbers (a few million perhaps, which are fisherman) have managed to depopulate 90% of aquatic edible creatures.
You're pulling this crap out of your rear end, I think.
The only reason vegetarianism has any viability is because of the meat-eaters before them. Only when they can live in safe homes and go to supermarkets and order what they need to feed themselves off the internet will they be able to survive for any length of time.
Now, I'm perfectly fine if you want to refrain from eating whatever foods you don't want, but don't engage in alarmism and global doom theory by villianizing meat-eaters. This "We've raped the oceans of all food supply, we're all doomed!" crap is promoted by PETA types who think n order to save animals they have to conduct raids on farms and "set them all free! Freedom from specist oppression!"