Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

Why don't recent generations including gen 8 allow dry passing? I understand that simplicity of ruleset is sometimes viewed as important, but seeing how complicated the BW and ADV rules are, allowing dry passing (which theoretically has no potential for abuse) seems a lot more clear-cut. I know there aren't really a ton of potential users, but there are some, and I guess I just don't understand why simplicity seems to not matter for those old gens but it's vital for this one.

Is it just that the implementation is complicated? I understand that there's a gray area with moves with percent chance stat raises, but you could literally just ban Baton Pass + any move that even gives a chance at a stat raise. Or whatever.
Just my opinion, but the banning of move+condition sets a horrible precedent that we should not subscribe to and we have not subscribed to for a couple of generations.

Old generation tiering done retroactively largely is intended to preserve as much of the metagame as possible, but even then I disagree with some of the combinations used to negatively impact baton pass styles.
 
Just my opinion, but the banning of move+condition sets a horrible precedent that we should not subscribe to and we have not subscribed to for a couple of generations.

Old generation tiering done retroactively largely is intended to preserve as much of the metagame as possible, but even then I disagree with some of the combinations used to negatively impact baton pass styles.
I see, so old gens do kind of have a different philosophy applied to bans. That makes sense. I guess I can see how allowing dry passing is sort of akin to allowing spout-less Kyogre or whatever.
 
I see, so old gens do kind of have a different philosophy applied to bans. That makes sense. I guess I can see how allowing dry passing is sort of akin to allowing spout-less Kyogre or whatever.
Fwiw, I do think that dry pass would have some (not many) applications, but at some point, we have to worry less about collateral and more about consistency. Appreciate the understanding
 
Will there be tier changes for other old gens? Regice and Raikou have recently dropped to UUBL in ADV OU, and Moltres rose around last year I believe. Will something like Electivire drop down from DPP OU, and Dugtrio from BW and XY OU?
Nothing is currently in the works, but it’s possible BL lists can be tinkered with. Nothing will drop into new full tiers though.
 
Why do some Pokemon (for example Ninjask, Silvally-Ghost, and Silvally-Ground) use Swords Dance in conjunction with U-turn? Pivoting out of bad matchups is cool, sure, but the set is discovered, so the opposition will probably not allow the Swords Dance user to set up as easily,
 
Why do some Pokemon (for example Ninjask, Silvally-Ghost, and Silvally-Ground) use Swords Dance in conjunction with U-turn? Pivoting out of bad matchups is cool, sure, but the set is discovered, so the opposition will probably not allow the Swords Dance user to set up as easily,
In the case of vally ground, is specially useful against grasses because it hits them, but also prevent the opposition from revenge kill it for example
 
Why do some Pokemon (for example Ninjask, Silvally-Ghost, and Silvally-Ground) use Swords Dance in conjunction with U-turn? Pivoting out of bad matchups is cool, sure, but the set is discovered, so the opposition will probably not allow the Swords Dance user to set up as easily,
big damage momentum boost is always nice
 
“do you think entry hazards should be ban because they force us to play things we don’t want like defog or the boots ?”

someone asked this question to a streamer i watched today and i was shocked when he said that if he had to choose he would ban the boots

and then he said that overall hazards are what make the game fun to play, that free switch are far worse than just having to restrain ourself with hazard setters and removal, he also said that he himself was thinking the boots are like a mass that no one seem to care but is actually a cancer destroying the solo.

do you agree with his statement that entry hazards are essential to the game ?
and the boots this bad ?
 
“do you think entry hazard should be ban because they force us to play things we don’t want like defog or the boot ?”

someone asked this question to a streamer i watched today and i was shocked when he said that if he had to choose he would ban the boots

and then he said that overall hazards are what makes the game fun to play, that free switch are far worse than just having to restrain ourself with hazard setters and removal, he also said that he himself was thinking the boots are like a mass that no one seem to care but is actually a cancer destroying the solo.

do you agree with his statement that entry hazards are essential to the game ?
and the boots this bad ?
I would say neither are really broken. Hazards are crucial for chipping down massive threats in the current meta such as Tapu Lele, Kuyrem, Weavile, Nidoking. Now while things things can run boots, they cut MASSIVE power in order to do it. Weavile no longer nukes things with CB triple axel. Kuyrem lacks the power to potentially 2KO blissey if it runs boots. Nidoking can’t use life orb for an extra jacked power boost. Lele can’t abuse it’s good speed tier and fantastic special attack. Some things are forced to run boots such as volcarona, who gets crippled without them. Even if you do run boots, you have to be wary of knock offs from things such as Lando or Rillaboom. Now I want to go back to hazards for a second. Hazards have been massive in the games for awhile. Now there definitely was some merit to banning them back in Gen 4, it is simply not the case. There are many pokemon in the tier that are fine with running defog. Zapdos, Tornadus, Corviknight, Moltres, Mandibuzz, and even maybe the rare HO defoggers like Koko or Kartana. Hazards have just become part of the game, and have been very much nerfed from the old days. Defog buff in Gen 6, Boots being introduced now, it’s just that hazards aren’t as warping as they were. Heck some teams are fine without even running a spinner or fogger. I mean they aren’t always easy to play with, but are certainly viable. Anyway I’m done with my TedTalk. I spent a whole 10 min writing this so if Finch doesn’t like it I will be big sad.
 
I would say neither are really broken. Hazards are crucial for chipping down massive threats in the current meta such as Tapu Lele, Kuyrem, Weavile, Nidoking. Now while things things can run boots, they cut MASSIVE power in order to do it. Weavile no longer nukes things with CB triple axel. Kuyrem lacks the power to potentially 2KO blissey if it runs boots. Nidoking can’t use life orb for an extra jacked power boost. Lele can’t abuse it’s good speed tier and fantastic special attack. Some things are forced to run boots such as volcarona, who gets crippled without them. Even if you do run boots, you have to be wary of knock offs from things such as Lando or Rillaboom. Now I want to go back to hazards for a second. Hazards have been massive in the games for awhile. Now there definitely was some merit to banning them back in Gen 4, it is simply not the case. There are many pokemon in the tier that are fine with running defog. Zapdos, Tornadus, Corviknight, Moltres, Mandibuzz, and even maybe the rare HO defoggers like Koko or Kartana. Hazards have just become part of the game, and have been very much nerfed from the old days. Defog buff in Gen 6, Boots being introduced now, it’s just that hazards aren’t as warping as they were. Heck some teams are fine without even running a spinner or fogger. I mean they aren’t always easy to play with, but are certainly viable. Anyway I’m done with my TedTalk. I spent a whole 10 min writing this so if Finch doesn’t like it I will be big sad.

ok thanks, that’s what i thought too, i don’t see them broken but i like the boots and he spoke of boots and hazards with so much hate and passion that it made me wonder how regular players feel, personally i learned with landorus back in the previous gen that just because things are spammed it doesn’t mean being banworthy or just bad for the game.

that being said there has always been something that bugged me, that was that while rocks are ok, i think it’s kind of unfair to pokémon weak to rock type, would be more diverse to have hazards from every type (of course one replace another, it’s pokémon not hazard battle ^^),
GF kind of introduced steel type hazard as side effect of a giga, so maybe it would be nice to generalize that for the next games
 
Last edited:
Has someone tried wiglytuff in OU, I know people will say that clef outclases it, but the hardest posible counter to draga and a check to lando sounds nice. I have a team with it, but wont share because I dont want my message to get eliminated
 
Has someone tried wiglytuff in OU, I know people will say that clef outclases it, but the hardest posible counter to draga and a check to lando sounds nice. I have a team with it, but wont share because I dont want my message to get eliminated
It doesn’t check LandoT and being vulnerable to hazards and status makes it a few predictions away from even being susceptible to Dragapult’s specs set. I would not advise using it. Clefable outclasses it and so do others
 
Has someone tried wiglytuff in OU, I know people will say that clef outclases it, but the hardest posible counter to draga and a check to lando sounds nice. I have a team with it, but wont share because I dont want my message to get eliminated
cant really check lando at all

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 48 HP / 208 Def Wigglytuff: 235-277 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and i mean i guess it beats dragapult but its really niche and not really worth it
but if you can make a good team around then good for you
 
It doesn’t check LandoT and being vulnerable to hazards and status makes it a few predictions away from even being susceptible to Dragapult’s specs set. I would not advise using it. Clefable outclasses it and so do others
I just tried it for fun, but if I am not wrong a check is a mon that can beat x mon given a free switch
 
I just tried it for fun, but if I am not wrong a check is a mon that can beat x mon given a free switch
Wiggly checks Dragapult, but does not check Landorus-T due to how strong Landorus-T is. Even if you’re using a defensive Landorus-T, Knock or Toxic + U-Turn can wear out Wigglytuff far quicker than ideal for a Pokemon dedicated to being a wall. Keep in mind Landorus-T is bulky enough and has enough immunities to enter the field numerous times without struggling, making this especially problematic.

As for Dragapult, it is naturally checked by a Normal + Fairy type for sure, but let’s look at things practically. Wigglytuff is weak to every hazard, meaning that it either needs Boots and to dance out of the way of Knock Off users while giving up on Leftovers or it needs very consistent hazard control, perhaps even multiple Defog users given how diverse the hazard setting metagame is. It is also plagued by a vulnerability to status, which makes it susceptible to being worn out by Toxic, crippled by burns, and potentially neutralized by Paralysis. All of a sudden you take hazards and/or status plus a U-turn or two and a Specs Fire move can easily 2HKO you and the pivot set can lead to a ton of negative net sequences for you.

Wigglytuff is a cute idea on paper that will never translate well; Magic Guard makes Clefable absolutely amazing and irreplaceable.
 
Wiggly checks Dragapult, but does not check Landorus-T due to how strong Landorus-T is. Even if you’re using a defensive Landorus-T, Knock or Toxic + U-Turn can wear out Wigglytuff far quicker than ideal for a Pokemon dedicated to being a wall. Keep in mind Landorus-T is bulky enough and has enough immunities to enter the field numerous times without struggling, making this especially problematic.

As for Dragapult, it is naturally checked by a Normal + Fairy type for sure, but let’s look at things practically. Wigglytuff is weak to every hazard, meaning that it either needs Boots and to dance out of the way of Knock Off users while giving up on Leftovers or it needs very consistent hazard control, perhaps even multiple Defog users given how diverse the hazard setting metagame is. It is also plagued by a vulnerability to status, which makes it susceptible to being worn out by Toxic, crippled by burns, and potentially neutralized by Paralysis. All of a sudden you take hazards and/or status plus a U-turn or two and a Specs Fire move can easily 2HKO you and the pivot set can lead to a ton of negative net sequences for you.

Wigglytuff is a cute idea on paper that will never translate well; Magic Guard makes Clefable absolutely amazing and irreplaceable.
It just a cute mon, to joke a round and maybe do something, but I would use clef in serious battle
 
To elaborate on Finch's point:



252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- approx. 3HKO

Obviously the calcs are way worse with the normal physically defensive spread....

252 SpA Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
do i rly have to say more
252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO


Also, if you do run the AV set....
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 170-200 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 167-197 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
Back
Top