Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[TailGlowVM]

Clearly some moves are avoided because of competitive (Hey T-tar, no Knock Off for you)

The most notable examples of this I can think of that I believe almost definitely are due to competitive balance are:

• The Tapus not getting their terrain moves
• Kommo-o's originally limited movepool (though they probably overdid it, so it got gradually fixed in later games). Similar to some people back in Gen 7, I wonder if it was originally conceived as a Shell Smash attacker, especially given the illegal Shell Smash Kommo-o in the Battle Tree.
• The aforementioned psuedo-legendary limitations.
• Xerneas not learning Earth Power
• Yveltal not learning Nasty Plot
• Most of the Ultra Beasts have quite limited movepools, somewhat counteracting their wild stats. (The only real exceptions seem to be the weakest two, Celesteela and Guzzlord)
• Not movepool, but I think the Galar fossils' signature moves are meant to be broken, but they are limited by their poor speed, low attack, and with the exception of Dracovish inconsistent abilities.

Maybe you could say they gave Spectrier that horrible movepool to balance its incredible stats, but I'd like to think they actually designed Spectrier to be a Pokemon that succeeds with only STAB moves for offense. Lilligant as it could have been. Likewise, I believe Regieleki isn't actually supposed to be an offensive Pokemon at all, it's a fast supporter.

And yet Game Freak gave Incineroar Parting Shot, made a new terrain-using Pokemon that has taken over the place of the Tapus as a premier VGC and Singles Pokemon, Zapdos Hurricane (though deserved for flavour IMO), and Pheromosa Triple Axel. They have a weird definition of "balance", don't they?

 

[R_N]

You've never played tug-a-war with my cousin's Zuchon then (specified my cousin's as I'm not sure if any other Zuchon growls when playing tug-a-war with them).

The...move, Growl. is usually not shown as "cute". Not real life growls

Several of the games show it as harsh sound lines and other stuff tends to show it like a harsh yell

Adventures shows Delcatty & Taillow using it "cutely" by having them sing (& the first gen does, for its credit, show it as music notes)

The mareep growl is so funny to me because it had this big dramatic zoom leading to it

 

[Noiptile]

Why the evolutionary line of Quagsire learns Eerie Impulse, and many electrical types do not learn, including Magnezone, that his pokedex in Sword says "Some say that Magnezone receives signals from space via the antenna on its head and that it's being controlled by some mysterious being" and the one in Moon says "As it zooms through the sky, this Pokémon seems to be receiving signals from unknown origin, while transmitting signals of unknown purpose."? It is not even a case similar to the sucker punch, because the Japanese name is "strange wave"

 

[Worldie]

Why the evolutionary line of Quagsire learns Eerie Impulse, and many electrical types do not learn, including Magnezone, that his pokedex in Sword says "Some say that Magnezone receives signals from space via the antenna on its head and that it's being controlled by some mysterious being" and the one in Moon says "As it zooms through the sky, this Pokémon seems to be receiving signals from unknown origin, while transmitting signals of unknown purpose."? It is not even a case similar to the sucker punch, because the Japanese name is "strange wave"

Well, Magnezone is said to *receive* the waves, not to actually be able to throw them at enemies....
I have no idea of why the Wooper/Quagsire line learns it though.
I assume it can have something to do with something the salamander species they are based on does, but I can't find anything on the internet about ultrawaves or electricity

 

[Celever]

Why the evolutionary line of Quagsire learns Eerie Impulse, and many electrical types do not learn, including Magnezone, that his pokedex in Sword says "Some say that Magnezone receives signals from space via the antenna on its head and that it's being controlled by some mysterious being" and the one in Moon says "As it zooms through the sky, this Pokémon seems to be receiving signals from unknown origin, while transmitting signals of unknown purpose."? It is not even a case similar to the sucker punch, because the Japanese name is "strange wave"

Well, Magnezone is said to *receive* the waves, not to actually be able to throw them at enemies....
I have no idea of why the Wooper/Quagsire line learns it though.
I assume it can have something to do with something the salamander species they are based on does, but I can't find anything on the internet about ultrawaves or electricity

Axolotls are very good at detecting electric fields. Albeit, the same is true for lots of other marine animals, and the other axolotl line (Mudkip) doesn't learn Eerie Impulse. But it likely is the explanation.

 

[michaeloche]

The Sobble line can get Fell Stinger by breeding. Weird.

 

[Siggu]

The Sobble line can get Fell Stinger by breeding. Weird.

From the Sword/Shield website:

"Inteleon also has special lenses in its eyes and a sharp knife hidden in its tail."

That's the likely reasoning behind it.

 

[MoonlightRose]

Grotle can't learn Rock Tomb. Why can Grotle not learn Rock Tomb. Piplup can learn Rock Tomb. Monferno can learn Rock Tomb. But Grotle, the one with the closest connection to the Rock typing, can't learn Rock Tomb. Why can Grotle not learn Rock Tomb. On a related note, each of the three starters has a different stage that they can first learn Rock Tomb : Piplup at stage 1, Chimchar at stage 2 and Turtwig, which evolves into the very closely related Ground type, at stage 3. For some reason.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Grotle can't learn Rock Tomb. Why can Grotle not learn Rock Tomb. Piplup can learn Rock Tomb. Monferno can learn Rock Tomb. But Grotle, the one with the closest connection to the Rock typing, can't learn Rock Tomb. Why can Grotle not learn Rock Tomb. On a related note, each of the three starters has a different stage that they can first learn Rock Tomb : Piplup at stage 1, Chimchar at stage 2 and Turtwig, which evolves into the very closely related Ground type, at stage 3. For some reason.

You don't need to post this in two threads. I'll respond to this one as it's the most fitting for this comment.

It is a very odd thing. While I can sort of see why, at the same time there's also other Pokemon which "break the rules". Honestly Chimchar and Grotle should be able to get Rock Tomb from the more consistent "pattern" I'm seeing of it being learned either by bipedal Pokemon with arms (guess the idea is that they throw the rocks) or bulky/hardy quadruped.

 

[Hugin]

So, fun fact I just discovered looking into something for the Mysteries and Conspiracies thread:
GF has been trying to eliminate OHKO moves since Gen VI and doesn't want to admit it. In entirety of Gen VI, the only family that learns an OHKO move that didn't before is Tyrunt/Tyrantrum learning Horn Drill(which honestly seems like a mistake given how bad a fit that move is on them). In VII, the only mons that gained an OHKO move were Guillotine for Vikavolt and Kartana, Horn Drill for LGPE Rapidash and Dewgong, and Sheer Cold for Suicune and A-Vulpix. In SwSh, Kyurem, Munchlax, Mudbray, and Cufant gained OHKO moves, but that's it. Compared to earlier distributions(Wormadam-Sand learns Fissure by level-up), it feels very much like someone decided to say "No OHKO moves unless absolutely necessary". I'm shocked they weren't Dexited.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

What do these two Pokemon have in common? Well, they're both Fighting-type. They both have high HP and low defenses. They both have sumo wrestler inspirations (more so with Hariyama).

And they both learn a Water move through TM that makes people go "wait what".

Scald Emboar and Brine Hariyama.

Now, Brine on Hariyama has had a somewhat satisfactory explanation for a while now. Salt is apparently a thing in sumo wrestling, and Hariyama's family has a signature move in Smelling Salts. However, Scald Emboar has never really had a good explanation.

I don't know nearly enough about sumo wrestling to explain what the reason is, but I suspect there is some water-related reason that explains both Brine on Hariyama and Scald on Emboar.

 

[TailGlowVM]

What do these two Pokemon have in common? Well, they're both Fighting-type. They both have high HP and low defenses. They both have sumo wrestler inspirations (more so with Hariyama).

And they both learn a Water move through TM that makes people go "wait what".

Scald Emboar and Brine Hariyama.

Now, Brine on Hariyama has had a somewhat satisfactory explanation for a while now. Salt is apparently a thing in sumo wrestling, and Hariyama's family has a signature move in Smelling Salts. However, Scald Emboar has never really had a good explanation.

I don't know nearly enough about sumo wrestling to explain what the reason is, but I suspect there is some water-related reason that explains both Brine on Hariyama and Scald on Emboar.

Scald's distribution is just weird. For the first three generations, it was limited almost exclusively to Water-types, but with Emboar getting it. Almost all Water-types get it, but none of the Water/Ice ones do (makes sense) and nor does Palkia (why?) In Generation 7, they gave Crabominable Scald, meaning no Water/Ice learns it but a non-aquatic icy crab does?

Then they started giving it out to other Pokemon in Generation 8. Coalossal, Pincurchin, Centiskorch and Dragapult learn it (along with the Galarian forms, but that fits with other moves) and most weirdly of all, they randomly gave it to Raikou.

So what do they have that other aquatic, Electric- or Fire-type Pokemon don't:



And Palkia doesn't:

 

[R_N]

I always figured Emboar superheated water, though there's nothing about it that really emphasizes it. Honestly may not be sumo, but instead something to do with its Chinese inspiration? the ol pig demon mean anything here? Its got markings lot a ding pot, does that do anything? Chinese tea? Scalding tea? Is this anything??

Centiskorch absolutely gets it because of boiling water, at least. The markings on its stomach are meant to act like an oven; you put water on the oven and it boils, making it scalding hot.
You could extend that to Coalossal, too. Coal powered stove, or something.
I've definitely mentioned Raikou before, it just seems like its whole thing is thunderstorms, it has a thundercloud cape on its back and lightning is super heated so...

Pincurchin wasnt really questioned, I suppose, but it probably gets it for the same reason Stunfisk did: aquatic creature just...not a water type.

Crabrawler (both brawler & bominable get it, btw) I'd say maybe a reference to boiling lobsters but its a coconut crab and I dont really hear about boiling crabs...

 

[Noiptile]

The distribution of Leech Life is strange, especially with Pokémon from gen7. Incineroar, Salazzle, Mimikyu and Naganadel are strange choices, in addition to Dracovish. It is also strange that Kabutops only received it on gen8. Lurantis is also a curious choice, but as it is inspired by an insect, I think it is a little more ok than the others, while the Sandslash Kantonian and Alolan, from what I saw on this thread, is probably the vampire shrews.

 

[Celever]

The distribution of Leech Life is strange, especially with Pokémon from gen7. Incineroar, Salazzle, Mimikyu and Naganadel are strange choices, in addition to Dracovish. It is also strange that Kabutops only received it on gen8. Lurantis is also a curious choice, but as it is inspired by an insect, I think it is a little more ok than the others, while the Sandslash Kantonian and Alolan, from what I saw on this thread, is probably the vampire shrews.

Incineroar fits to me. It's a wrestler who uses dirty tactics and, y'know, biting the opponent and drinking their life force is about the dirtiest tactic a wrestler could perform. Mimikyu similarly is very vengeful and so it makes a fair amount of sense, especially with it being a physical attacker, to drain the opponent's life force through whatever's hiding under the Pikachu facade. Naganadel probably gets it for the same reason something like Beedrill can; piercing with the needle instead of a jaw to drain it. Salazzle I guess does the same with its fire tongue, I presume that's why the ability Corrosion works -- it pierces Steel-Type Pokémon's armour with its sharp fire tongue to create an opening for the poison.

Leech Life's whole draining ability is fairly abstractly defined. Anything bad-natured with the ability to pierce should in theory be able to learn the move; something like Crawdaunt receiving this would honestly fit to me.

 

[Bakugames]

I think scald should be /the/ water move that fire types can learn. They would probably come super easy to it, since as long as they can conjure water its going to heat up because of their fire and body temperature.
Elemental moves like thunderbolt/flamethrower/scald etc are pretty much purely on what gamefreak wants to do, since they seem to be just pure magic created out of nowhere, and type doesnt correlate beyond "its more likely to get it if its stab"

 

[Worldie]

I think scald should be /the/ water move that fire types can learn. They would probably come super easy to it, since as long as they can conjure water its going to heat up because of their fire and body temperature.

You're right, but honestly this is definitely a case where this isn't done for balance purpose.

Giving fire type a easy access to a Water type move that also has burn chance might be thematically fitting, but it's a coverage against 3 of their biggest checks (rock, ground, opposer fires) they shouldn't realistically have easily.
(Remember that the other anti rock/ground and water move they usually get, Solar Beam, is heavily limited by being under Sun, and Energy Ball / Grass Knot are very rarely seen on Fire types, usually only on ghost/psychic dual types if even).

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Why do they not give Regice mirror coat? It's ice, shiny, and they could go for a whole theme where Regirock gets counter but not mirror coat, Regice gets mirror coat but not counter, and they could even have metal burst Registeel. Why has this not happened?

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned Psych Up yet so here goes.

Why is this a Psychic move at all? [EDIT: Duh, it isn't, it's Normal.] Psyching yourself up is generally (not exclusively, but often) a competitive sports thing, so it's something that would fit for Fighting-types. The move text describes it as a self-hypnosis action, so that explains why it's Psychic, but Meditate is (was - thanks, Dexit) a Psychic move, and that didn't stop several Fighting-types like Hitmonlee, Machop, and Mankey from learning it. The action of psyching oneself up is not conceptually that different from Focus Energy (which is described as "pumping the user up") or Bulk Up.

And yet the only Fighting-types which get it are Meditite and Medicham (who don't count because they're also part Psychic), the Swords of Justice, and Mankey/Primeape.

That throws up an even bigger oddity. Why on earth does Mankey get both Meditate and Psych Up? Its whole thing is that it's ill-tempered and has a hair-trigger temper, which hardly seems conducive to self-hypnosis and meditation. Contrast the Machop and Makuhita lines, which both are associated with discipline and focus.

 

[dodiabla]

Why do they not give Regice mirror coat? It's ice, shiny, and they could go for a whole theme where Regirock gets counter but not mirror coat, Regice gets mirror coat but not counter, and they could even have metal burst Registeel. Why has this not happened?

I would assume balance reasons. Looking at their stats, dealing with Counter/Mirror Coat/Metal Burst on any of the Regis would be a pain, especially in earlier gens. Regirock could run Sturdy with a custap berry, use counter when knocked down to 1 HP, and then use Explosion.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned Psych Up yet so here goes.

Why is this a Psychic move at all? Psyching yourself up is generally (not exclusively, but often) a competitive sports thing, so it's something that would fit for Fighting-types. The move text describes it as a self-hypnosis action, so that explains why it's Psychic, but Meditate is (was - thanks, Dexit) a Psychic move, and that didn't stop several Fighting-types like Hitmonlee, Machop, and Mankey from learning it. The action of psyching oneself up is not conceptually that different from Focus Energy (which is described as "pumping the user up") or Bulk Up.

And yet the only Fighting-types which get it are Meditite and Medicham (who don't count because they're also part Psychic), the Swords of Justice, and Mankey/Primeape.

That throws up an even bigger oddity. Why on earth does Mankey get both Meditate and Psych Up? Its whole thing is that it's ill-tempered and has a hair-trigger temper, which hardly seems conducive to self-hypnosis and meditation. Contrast the Machop and Makuhita lines, which both are associated with discipline and focus.

The Japanese name for Psych Up translates to "self-suggest" according to bulbapedia. I take that to mean that the Pokemon basically hypnotizes itself into thinking it is as strong as its opponent, which translates to matching stat modifications in-game. Hence why so many Psychic types get the move, and also why pokemon whose descriptions mention confusion, suggestion, or mind control also get the move (Watchog, Komala, Ninetails, etc). As for the Mankey family, it basically uses its anger to go berserk and fight its opponent, another form of self-suggestion.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned Psych Up yet so here goes.

Why is this a Psychic move at all? Psyching yourself up is generally (not exclusively, but often) a competitive sports thing, so it's something that would fit for Fighting-types. The move text describes it as a self-hypnosis action, so that explains why it's Psychic, but Meditate is (was - thanks, Dexit) a Psychic move, and that didn't stop several Fighting-types like Hitmonlee, Machop, and Mankey from learning it. The action of psyching oneself up is not conceptually that different from Focus Energy (which is described as "pumping the user up") or Bulk Up.

Just wanted to point out that Psych Up isn't actually a Psychic-type move: it's a Normal-type move.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Just wanted to point out that Psych Up isn't actually a Psychic-type move: it's a Normal-type move.

Ah, well that's what I get for only briefly scanning the Bulbapedia entry.

 

[TerrickTerran]

Well for a while it seems that the majority of non attack moves were made normal so probably why psych up is as well.

 

[CPU]

Crabrawler (both brawler & bominable get it, btw) I'd say maybe a reference to boiling lobsters but its a coconut crab and I dont really hear about boiling crabs...

Despite it being an Ice-type, Scald fits more for Crabominable, as it's based off of the yeti crab, a deep-sea species that lives near hydrothermal vents.

Also, fun fact I just learned, the yeti crab was only discovered in 2006. It's a species that couldn't have been used as a Pokémon inspiration in the first three gens because we didn't even know about it yet!

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

At least in Let's Go, Marowak can learn two of the elemental punches, missing only Ice Punch. Sounds reasonable, right? Well, yes but no, as Marowak can learn Ice Beam and Blizzard. What.