Here's what I have to say about this post. I hope that this time you read it, and really think about what I have to say here.
I go by what I see in the current metagame and the team you provided is not one of them.
Evidently, you didn't read my post because I repeatedly said that the team which I provided is not good, nor is it a meta team. In fact I said the exact opposite. I said it was bad, doesn't often work, and is a match-up fish. I merely provided it as an example of what a full baton pass team could look like. Also, don't call something "not-meta" because you don't see it on ladder. The development of the meta goes beyond the matches you play on ladder, and such experience shouldn't be used as the sole decider for you as to what is meta. What is in fact a good description of what is meta, is teams used by players >1700 elo, teams used in more competitive room tours, and teams used in tournament matches. Once you've seen a baton pass like the one you sent in such matches, then you can discuss what is meta.
I clearly hit a softspot here.
No you did not. I just love BH and I love to talk about it. I also love talking about niche strats such as baton pass teams, because they're fun. But, I also thinks it's important to be clear with regards to the expectation one should have when building with certain teams or styles and a conversation such as this is really important so that we can really iron out whether such a strat could be seen in
consistent and
competitive play. So, I'm really glad were having this conversation and you brough up this topic :))
It is not a baton pass team between every member as you can see.
If a team has 4 pokemon dedicated to a certain strategy I think it's fair to compare it to a team with 6 pokemon dedicated to that start. If anything, I think it's a better comparison to a full team of that stat, because it demonstrates the full potential of a baton pass when all the pokemon use it. The reason why this is also okay on a 4 pokemon team dedicated to one start is because, the next two pokemon on their own, usually aren't enough to influence the identity of the team, and give it a different way to win, that in itself isn't a matchup fish because it can't rely on the other members of the team to beat its checks. Now, if you built a team with 2 baton pass pokemon, maybe 3 (which is stretching it) then this would be a different conversation.
The main goal of this team is to punish and beat the regular prankster haze pokemons with magic bounce Yveltal which is immune to topsy turvy, encore and taunt nor need substitute to work. With Regigigas lead a team like this can setup in 2 turns where you are immune to haze and spectral thief after 1 turn.
Yes, you may beat regular prankster haze pokemon but you lose to literally anything else that prevents you from setting up clangerous soul. You also only get to choose from either topsy-turvy or haze, which further demonstrates the match-up fishing nature of this. You also can't baton pass imprison. You also lose 33% of your health when you click clangerous soul, and if your opponent goes first and clicks a strong move you might not be able to get a CS off. You have difficulty setting up on offensive pokemon, and lose to
some common defensive pokemon, with no clear strategy to beat some of the common defensive pokemon you lose to, hence reamphasizing my point that this is match up fishing.
Being "inherently pretty terrible" is a far stretch and overexaggerating as I wouldn't discuss such a team if they weren't successful on the ladder.
As I said earlier, in my first response, seeing a pokemon team style in ladder is not ample enough evidence to figure out whether it is in fact a strong team concept or not. In order to demonstrate this point you must demonstrate instances of success with such a strategy against teams which have been shown to be effective and strong meta teams. When you do that, then we have an even stronger base for discussion which I would love to have, because I enjoy playing and building baton pass teams, and would love to see them succeed.
The regular HO bellydrum + final gambit on the other hand is more "fish" oriented as you need to final gambit the right pokemon and usually prankster pokemons aren't brought out unless you really have to. Final gambit can also backfire and I usually see people being stuck in the 1400s with such teams meanwhile with a team I listed above I usually see them in the 1600s.
Even though these are still match-up fishing, they have been shown at times, to perform well in certain styled teams, and have seen some success at higher levels. Something which baton pass teams have seldom seen. Yet again, once you provide replays on instances where such baton pass teams have had success against
strong and meta teams the we can compare these strategies with each other, something I've love to do!
I'm happy to keep talking about baton pass, but lets try to be realistic with our expectations, and have a more conducive conversation. I'm excited to talk about this once you have replays and other instances proving the efficacy of such a strat!
