Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Pokeslice]

B+ --> A-

I've LOVED this mon recently. In general, Ghost-types are fantastic in NU atm with the lack of resists running around, and Decid is no different. Between Specs, the newly used CB, and SD variants, this mon will almost always put in work of some kind. It also has the added benefit of being able to U-Turn out on Guzz/Drap/Brav who all wall it. All in all, a fun and threatening Pokemon worth a small rise. It's definitely better than every other B+ mon.

Bronzong -> S | Copperajah -> S-

1000% agree with the Copper to S- nom. The meta has hard shifted against it with Guzz, Defensive Flygon, and Vileplume all seeing huge rises in usage among other things that hurt its viability. Like always, it's still really hard to switch into, but not S tier material. I could see it in A+/S-

On Zong, S makes no sense imo. Copper is still the better Steel-type with very similar utility but with the added benefit of a true offensive presence that Zong doesn't have. The rise of Xatu, Guzz, Drap, and Ghost-types also hurts it. ID BP sets are cool, but abusable by a lot of our special attackers and it often lacks the tools/situation to really sweep. Heatproof is another cool option of course as a Salazzle answer among other things, especially on teams with multiple Ground immunities, but neither of those two alterations we have seen recently on Zong can replace Copper, let alone place it in S.

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
The slate went up on May 28th, but due to personal issues within the VR council, the voting didn't resolve until a few days after. Therefore, all Pokemon that were nominated from UR after this date will be added on the next slate.

Rises and Drops

Rises:
A+ -> S
A -> A+
A -> A+
A- -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> A-
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C

Drops:
A- -> B
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

Note:
I am the sole author of all of these reasonings, and therefore, the opinions of every council member may not be fully reflected.

Rises:
A+ -> S: Flygon is the best utility Pokemon in the tier, with defensive Flygon sets being the sole ground able to deter Rotom-Mow, as well as checking many threats and being able to check and defog against Copperajah consistently. Choice Scarf sets are also very useful, proving to be one of the best cleaners in the tier.
A -> A+: Diancie has proven itself as one of the best Dark and Normal resists in the metagame, able to check threats such as Drapion, Exploud, and Braviary. It's able to pressure Xatu and borderline sweep unprepared teams, as well as beat Vaporeon with Skill Swap or assist its team with Heal Bell.
A -> A+: The usefulness of Vaporeon is debated often, but there is no denying its pressure in the teambuilder, often requiring a check to it to break past balance teams. However, the rise of Vaporeon is still limited by a lot of the council's belief that its passiveness holds it back, making it to where the checks to Vaporeon can use it as setup fodder and abuse common Vaporeon structures.
A- -> A+: Another vote where the council was split, but most agreed that Glastrier should rise. While the focus during the suspect has been on Substitute Iron Defense sets, which are still rather potent, Substitute + SD sets have been getting a big rise in popularity and have been showcasing the dangerous nature of Glastrier versus common bulky cores.
A- -> A: Drapion is a rather potent setup sweeper, often causing teams to fold after their single check is crippled or KO'd. Drapion has been causing defensive Flygon to run faster speeds in order to check it, as well as causing the rise of Mudsdale and Diancie to check it, which Toxic Spikes sets can still take advantage of.
B+ -> A-: Decidueye has seen a rising popularity due to the prevalence of Vaporeon, as well as the amount of teams that are lacking in Ghost resists. Choice Band sets are very potent, as they have a powerful priority move in Shadow Sneak and can take advantage of ghost resists such as Guzzlord with a powerful U-Turn.
B+ -> A-: People were quick to dismiss Vileplume as a bad Pokemon due to its difficulty as a Fighting-type check, but it has recently seen a surge in popularity as a general physical check as well as a Vaporeon abuser with Growth sets.
B+ -> A-: Although screens is significantly nerfed with the banning of Light Clay, Xatu has seen a return to form with its traditional role of keeping off rocks, being able to check Copperajah and Bronzong with relative ease. It's also able to check Fighting-types such as Sirfetch'd and Machamp by outspeeding them and using Psychic, as well as Teleport as a slow pivot.
B -> B+: Mantine is able to exploit common cores with a Grass-type Pokemon as a Water resist, as well as pressure Vaporeon due to its inability to hit it back. Its seen a steady rise in use during NUPL, and its special bulk means that Pokemon such as Salazzle or even Specs Decidueye are easier to deal with.
B- -> A-: Celebi is seeing a huge rise in this VR, as its ability to setup and sweep teams is nearly unrivaled, breaking through common Psychic checks with Aura Sphere and using Recover and Natural Cure to stick around to do it multiple times.
B- -> B: Ninjask is able to take advantage of the lack of scarfers in the tier, outspeeding and threatening scarfers such as Rotom-Mow and Passimian after a Protect. It also assists Pokemon that take advantage of its U-Turn switchins, often forcing the opponent to play linearly against the STAB U-Turn.
C+ -> B-: Araquanid has been a good Webs user, but has recently seen more success with SubToxic variants that aim to exploit Vaporeon and bulky Flygon, as well as hit neutral targets hard with Liquidation.
C -> C+: Qwilfish gives Garbodor solid competition as a faster Pokemon with a solid niche, having both Intimidate and Scald to scare out physical threats as it sets up Spikes.
UR -> C+: Jellicent offers a bulky Water Absorber with a relatively fast taunt, allowing it to pressure most Stealth Rock users and Vaporeon, as well as giving it the tools to hard check all Glastrier sets that don't carry Throat Chop.
UR -> C+: Druddigon has gotten its niche back with Mold Breaker + Stealth Rocks due to the recent rise in Xatu usage, as well as being a niche Sheer Force breaker with the ability to pressure Steel- and Fairy-types with Fire Punch and Gunk Shot.
UR -> C: Rhydon hasn't seen much use, but its a niche offensive Stealth Rocks user that can pressure Pokemon such as Talonflame or outspeed and threaten Copperajah.
UR -> C: Silvally-Fairy has seen use on Hyper Offense builds, relying on its resistance to Knock Off and good offensive typing, as well as its setup potential. This allows it to threaten sweeps on unsuspecting teams, especially after other threats break through first.
UR -> C: Due to the fickle nature of Electric resists, Magneton has found itself becoming a niche special breaker with Analytic + Choice Specs threatening big damage on unprepared teams.

Drops:
A- -> B: Machamp has a niche in Guts, which allows it to take Scalds without much trouble. However, it is mostly outclassed as a breaker by Sirfetch'd, due to its ability to hit Ghost-types and overall better coverage and speed tier.
A- -> B: Tyrantrum is a very threatening wallbreaker; however, the rise of Mudsdale, Bronzong, and defensive Flygon in use has seen its threatening nature decline, and although its able to pressure teams when it gets in, its typing and speed tier leaves very few opportunities for it to do so.
B+ -> B: Dhelmise has seen lack of favour compared to other hazard removal, likely because of its difficulty to fit, the higher amount of preparation for Grass-types offensively, and its very slow speed tier. Pairing this with the premier Fighting-type Sirfetch'd having Scrappy, and Dhelmise has seen less justification to be fit on teams.
B+ -> B: Escavalier is a good Pokemon, but it often takes the place of very valuable Steel-types that can offer Stealth Rocks, or over the meta-defining Assault Vest Copperajah, all while being hard-walled by Talonflame and Arcanine. This lack of compression has pigeonholed it into requiring niche builds in order to flourish, which is too constrictive for most.
B -> B-: Aerodactyl has not seen as much recent success, with Sub Pressure sets being difficult to justify and Choice Band or HDB sets struggling against defensive Ground types.
B -> B-: Passimian is a staple of speed control in NU, but the current state of the metagame often forces it to take large amounts of chip or get predictions correct to make any valuable progress.
B -> C+: Weezing becomes less justifyable when compared to the other poisons in the tier, as setting Toxic Spikes is much less valuable with the host of good options available to absorb them. Garbodor also does its job of checking Fighting-types while offering Spikes and a check to Toxicroak.
B- -> C+: Inteleon struggles to compete with Blastoise as a setup sweeper, and tends to lack enough breaking power as a Choiced Pokemon due to lack of a second STAB or valuable coverage compared to Starmie.
B- -> C+: Virizion struggles with being a Vaporeon check that hates being burned by Scald, while also struggling against the tier's Fire-type and Flying-type Pokemon, which give it very few opportunities to set up.
B- -> C+: Zoroark has mostly seen use as a Choice Scarfer, due to its lack of power and speed tier to take full advantage of its ability. Therefore, most people regard Zoroark as a "gimmick", and its reserved for relatively rigid builds that try to bait a specific response and rely on these 50/50s.
B- -> C: Comfey is not valuable as a setup sweeper due to lack of Hidden Power, which relegates it to mediocre Defog and support roles, even though most of the Stealth Rockers in the tier beat it.
C+ -> C: Absol was a Pokemon we put on the VR due to the ways it can force holes into common cores, but its speed tier holds it back from doing well outside of specific matchups, either giving up rolls with Jolly or being outsped and killed by certain Pokemon with Adamant.
C+ -> C: Exeggutor-Alola competes in the role of abusing Vaporeon, but does a bad job of this with Choice Specs sets as Vaporeon players can scout with Protect and respond accordingly. Therefore, using it to its fullest potential is nearly impossible.
C+ -> C: Gigalith simply struggles with too much competition, offering no Ground-type to block Volt Switches, as well as struggling to check tier staples such as Starmie effectively. However, it still has a niche in checking Salazzle, and can still serve as a special wall.
C+ -> C: Electric Terrain teams aren't that good right now.
C+ -> UR: We put Arctozolt on the VR with fears of its BoltBeam coverage with massive pressure under hail, and it has shown very little reason for us to still consider it as such.
C -> UR: With the banning of Light Clay, most of its niche is just done better by Xatu or Starmie as a defensive or offensive Pokemon.
C -> UR: Although its one of the only Future Sight Pokemon in the tier, it has a lack of pressure towards Copperajah and struggles to break through any team without a significant amount of help.
C -> UR: This Pokemon is just too weak to serve as much more than a Psychic Terrain or Healing Wish support Pokemon.
C -> UR: Electric Terrain teams aren't that good right now.
C -> UR: Silvally-Steel faces competition from much better Steel-types and Defog users, with a very weak Flamethrower not serving as a deterrance to Steel-type Stealth Rockers and being shut down by bulky Fire types.
C -> UR: Electric-types are good right now, but Vikavolt's reliance on Heavy-Duty Boots and very slow speed tier open it up for exploitation by offensive and defensive Pokemon alike.

 

[Segetarius]

Alright, with the VR updates come many changes long in coming. In particular, the long awaited (at least for me) rise of Flygon to S tier has finally come to pass. But there is one drop in particular that I feel is undeserved, and I feel the need to argue for the recipients viability.

(Steel) UR -> C
Frankly, I think this mon is still genuinely good and the amount of trashing it gets is largely unwarranted. Now, I will be the first to tell you that Steelvally is far from a metagame staple and has numerous flaws, thus the nomination to the lowest tier the VR currently has. The most basic assessment of these flaws can be found in the post above this one justifying its drop to UR. However, I feel that this simple analysis doesn't come anywhere near an understanding of Steelvally's place in the meta.

The Pros...
The idea that Steelvally is strictly worse than the other Steels and Defoggers in the tier isn't necessarily wrong. Indeed, on 9/10 teams, I'd agree with that premise. However, in that 1/10 scenario, especially on more balanced and bulky offense builds, Steelvally makes a strong case for itself. For reference, I'll be using a more standard bulky pivot spread of 252Hp/200SpDef/56+Spe (although you could definitely tinker with the SpDef and Spe EV's depending on what you want to creep; this creeps Decidueye) with a set of Multi-Attack/Flamethrower/U-Turn or Parting Shot/Defog. So what does Steelvally do that its competition can't? Well, that depends on what you're comparing it to:

While you are obviously giving up breaking power compared to Copperajah, there are actually a lot of things you gain. For starters, you actually have better overall bulk with the given spread than the standard Stealth Rock set on both sides of the spectrum, and compared to AV you only lose about 2% against any given SpAtk, while you're miles ahead in terms of Def. Additionally, you're way, way faster, and you have a switch move, so you can not only hit first against scary opponents like Golurk, but if you cant KO, then just click your switch move. Steelvally isn't even that weak, it still has a 120BP STAB move, except it doesnt have to deal with the drawback of weight limiting the power against some targets. At the end of the day, all it really costs you to run Steelvally is a different rocker, of which there are plenty of great options between Mudsdale, Diancie, Golurk, etc. As a matter of fact, the team I'm using right now originally had an AV Copperajah where Steelvally is now, and I have no regrets.

Obviously, in terms of Defog, the most prominent competition for Steelvally is Flygon. Well, as it turns out, running Steelvally as your dedicated hazard removal means that you can run a different Flygon set, and this general rule applies to pretty much every other Defogger. It helps that the teams Steelvally is more effective on appreciate teammates such as Scarf Flygon/Mowtom. Even if you're simply freeing up the one move slot on one teammate, in my case swapping Defog for U-Turn on Talonflame, it can be extraordinarily valuable to have the option to run that one different move.

...And the Cons
While Steelvally can fill the role of Steel-type, special tank, and Defogger in one slot, it is absolutely true that the Steel typing is a double-edged blade. In particular, being weak to all of Fighting, Fire, and Ground can really suck, but these issues are not insurmountable, its mostly a matter of good building. This brings us to the other main critique of Steelvally:


While Salazzle doesn't really count as a bulky Fire-type, Talonflame and Arcanine definitely do, but the thing is that Steelvally doesn't really lose effectiveness just because of their presence. The given spread outspeeds standard bulky Arcanine, and even if you have to eat a Flamethrower, you're overwhelmingly favored to live 2 from the bulky set, and if they are running Toxic, well that's one less tool they can use against you. Similarly, Talonflame really only has the options of burning you with Will-o-Wisp or hitting you with Flare Blitz, which isn't coming anywhere near killing you. Even against Salazzle pivoting in on a Sludge Wave can be huge, not to mention that they can still take a decent chunk from switching into Multi-Attack, let alone if you click your chosen switch move. Of course the other piece of this puzzle is that Steelvally's best partner is arguably Vaporeon, who can both pass huge Wishes to it as well as check all of the non-random Centiskorch Fire-types.

In conclusion to what accidentally became a college essay, Steelvally is still more than viable and worthy of being ranked among the likes of Scyther and Comfey. As for the evidence to these claims, I'm happy to report that Steelvally, in its whopping 5 appearances in NUPL, has a 100% winrate. Those matches are:
Week 2- Davon v. Thiago Nunes
Week 2- Punny v. Serene Grace
Week 3- Confide v. Sabella
Week 5- MrAldo v. xavgb
Week 6- Feliburn v. Sabella

And as for a match of my own, I encourage you to check out Rabia's vid on SS Omastar where I played horribly in the last game and didn't deserve to win but Steelvally clutched and took a *checks calc* 1/4 to live +2 Surf (Rabia, if you're reading this, sorry for putting you through that God forsaken game) (709) METEOR BEAM OMASTAR IS VIABLE...? (w/ pokeaimMD) - YouTube

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

I can't find the nom for the virizion nom to rise but they made some good points and didn't even mention the swords dance set that thing is very hard hitting and virizion having above average speed (especially for NU) definently warrants a rank

 

[Minimizing]

Just some quick thoughts on current meta

(Steel) UR -> C
Agreed with everything said above fills role of pivot, bulky steel, and defogger all in one slot. Also is nice that it is the only defogger than can not be punished by toxic.

B -> B+/A-
Incredible wallbreaker in NU nothing wants to take a hit from this mon and punishes defog with defiant. Favorite set is Choice band for instant power/wallbreaking ability blows through everything except bronzong which will get destroyed if defiant is activated. Because of its immense power Braviary is basically guaranteed at least one kill a game (CB). Has switch ins on common mons of the metagame such as golurk/decidueye. Also can run adamant unless you want to outrun tyrantrum/decidueye.

Braviary @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- U-turn

B- -> C+
In my opinion best set is dragon dance as on paper it can sweep/outspeed many teams quite easily but with how bulky the metagame aerodactyl struggles a lot. Does not help that new mons gaining popularity such as druddigon and guzzlord can easily take hits and punish in return. Also works as a good dedicated lead but the metagame is quite harsh towards aerodactyl.

UR -> C
Somehow I have no replays but good dedicated lead to set rocks for offensive teams. Having priority/ good speed tier gives lycanroc really useful utility while also having a great matchup vs talonflame.

lycanroc @ Focus Sash
Level: 100
Jolly Nature
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Accelerock
- Endeavor

A+ -> S-
Best wallbreaker in tier leek plus priority is super annoying should probably be suspect tested.

B -> B+/A-
Machamp is still an extremely effective wallbreaker that does have some things going for it over Sir fetch. Machamp does more consistent damage over time than the leek set. Machamp also does not have to be choice locked to guarantee more power letting it choose its moves freely without relying on a crit. Finally being able to absorb scald is a really nice bonus.

S -> S
Still hard to wall still really good fulfills multiple roles

A+ -> S-
One of the best walls in the tier possibly the best which has multiple sets/abilities which can make it hard to counter. Always is extremely important in every game that it is in.

A- -> A
Very consistent Stealth rock setter and wall. Stops some very important offensive threats. Toxic + Protect Mudsdale def best set.

B+ -> B/B-
Lot of mons wall Heliolisk and I have found even with chip it usually comes up just short on damage. Would rather use rotom-mow any day over this. Blastoise isnt used as much removing its main niche as a choice scarfer. Note: Choice specs could possibly be a good set never used it.

C+ -> C+
Metagame is extremely harsh to virizion. Gets hit hard by just about everything hates the poison/fire/flying/ghost types running around. This makes it almost impossible to use as a breaker even if you do setup with it.

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

View attachment 349998 C+ -> C+
Metagame is extremely harsh to virizion. Gets hit hard by just about everything hates the poison/fire/flying/ghost types running around. This makes it almost impossible to use as a breaker even if you do setup with it.

I heavily disagree with this post, viziron is pretty fast and the only thing that hits it hard and outspeeds it is ninjask, which can't even switch in because it gets OHKO'd by stone edge obviously.
Virizion WILL eat a hit from sallazle and can OHKO it in return with stone edge
Sceptile isn't that good because there aren't that many electric terrain teams.
virizion will also eat ice beam from inteleon even if inteleon has choice specs.
Yes intimidate arcanine exists but even if you use arcanine with indimidate a 1+ attack virizion has a very large chance to OHKO with stone edge while still 2HKOing vaporeon with leaf blade.

 

[Corthius]

I heavily disagree with this post, viziron is pretty fast and the only thing that hits it hard and outspeeds it is ninjask, which can't even switch in because it gets OHKO'd by stone edge obviously.
Virizion WILL eat a hit from sallazle and can OHKO it in return with stone edge
Sceptile isn't that good because there aren't that many electric terrain teams.
virizion will also eat ice beam from inteleon even if inteleon has choice specs.
Yes intimidate arcanine exists but even if you use arcanine with indimidate a 1+ attack virizion has a very large chance to OHKO with stone edge while still 2HKOing vaporeon with leaf blade.

I think you forgot some mons so let me help you remembering. There are actually more pokemon that are faster than Virizion that can hit it hard. The most notable viable pokemon would be Ninjask, Aerodactyl, Talonflame, Inteleon, Salazzle, Starmie & Tauros. While I have to agree with you that most can not switch in safely nor OHKO it, that doesn't mean they can't switch in at all or can't revengekill Virizion. You would need to get every prediction every game right in order to achive that and moreso the presense of Talonflame makes you click Stone Edge way more to catch it, making the pokemon you are in versus also more likely to stay in.
Now for a topic you forgot completely about bar the mentioned Arcanine, pokemon don't necessairly need to be faster than Virizion to beat it. In fact walls like Garbodor and Weezing who pick up in usage are really hard for Virizion to break and even some offensive pokemon naturally check it like Decidueye and Dhelmise. Other good walls like Bronzong, Dragalge, and Vileplume are also insanely hard to break through if only using Virizion.
Virizion is probably still a fun breaker to use but honestly, its best set would be mixed and even then latest meta trends aren't really kind to it.

While we are at it,
B+ --> A-/A
Ranking Exploud in B+ is criminal to me. If you ever faced Exploud without Heatproof Bronzong and/or Diancie on your team you know it is a pain to switch into. Abusing physical walls like Xatu, Flygon and Vileplume and forcing huge damage on Bronzong makes it really easy for teampartner like Choice Scarf Flygon to clean lategame. With how many really good pivots we have at the moment, aka Flygon, Xatu and Rotom-C, it's not hard to get Exploud in a favorable position. Having a ghost immunity is also very valuable in the current metagame and allows for either really aggresive but rewarding switchins or just abusing the good old Protect.

 

[Rabia]

View attachment 349997 B+ -> B/B-
Lot of mons wall Heliolisk and I have found even with chip it usually comes up just short on damage. Would rather use rotom-mow any day over this. Blastoise isnt used as much removing its main niche as a choice scarfer. Note: Choice specs could possibly be a good set never used it.

Choice Specs is definitely the best set and alleviates many of the damage shortcomings Choice Scarf sets have. Thunderbolt / Hyper Voice / Volt Switch / Dark Pulse has great coverage and really just requires for you to predict properly to go off against most teams. The only uncomfortable situations I really ever have with Heliolisk are when up against Flygon + Normal-resistant Pokemon cores because picking between Hyper Voice and Volt Switch sucks lol. Otherwise, though, I really like Heliolisk in this metagame; it's good to stay where it's at as of now I think.

 

[Realistic Waters]

Escavalier B ---> B+

Not gonna overhype this too much so I'm nominating it for B+. I think we all know as an overview what Escavalier does but what makes it good right now is the ability to blanket check a decent chunk of the metagame + pressuring bulkier teams which separates it enough over Zong and Copper. A desirable niche right now.


Escavalier @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 32 Def / 208 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Toxic

I've sometimes felt that some of my teams struggled with breaking bulky balance, even with wallbreakers /specs/band but Escavalier does all that without being locked and has bulk / passive recovery. IMO megahorn is better than protect which is the key element to pressuring teams. Ultimately, the knock + toxic combo annoys everything. What really wants to switch into that combo right now? Not too much since Vaporeon, Flygon, Talonflame, Guzzlord, Bronzong and Mudsdale etc seem to be the norm these days. Sooner or later, something will be dropping and you can takes hits from these well enough. All I can think of is Weezing in my head. It's pretty easy to fit on a balance/bulky balance teams in the same essence to its counterparts as a steel type, team members like Diancie and Vaporeon work well giving Heal Bell / Wish Support. The opportunity cost isn't much lower.

As for being a blanket check, from full HP it's a decent choice if you need an emergency check to neutral attackers like Glastrier, Diancie, non ID Bronzong, Rotom-Mow, Tauros and weakened Blastoise for example. +2 Close Combat fails to ohko from Glastrier, you while you can retaliate with Iron head. Some of the key bonuses are countering threats like Crit Inteleon, Celebi, Critdra, Comfey, Wish Sylveon and Dragalge which do pop up so I kinda think Escavalier takes both the offensive and defensive elements from Copper and Zong.

Here's a replay as an example in a NU room tour.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1362758977

The matchup was rather average at first but Escavalier really pulled through from the midgame onwards. Diancie + Escavalier make a great core together covering weakness but between knocking off Talonflame and getting up rocks, Vaporeon just couldn't handle it nor was Diancie/Flygon a problem thus ultimately winning me the game.

Other Pokemon (Drops)

Some of the lower ranks are a bit saturated.

Unrank. More a fun meme than viable. Not fast, strong or bulky enough, moveslot syndrome and needs a bunch of support. Not even knock off warrants using this over Ninjask.

Unrank. You can make anything work but it's still bad? Unless you can show me some replays or something I still stand by this notion of it being bad. I already made a post about how bad this is but how far is 45 speed and terrible defensive typing going to get you? I'll link my past post here.

Unrank. Really bad. Idk... it barely beats Glast with taunt and then loses to Sirfetch’d and every special attacker. Intimidate is detrimental and most other physical attackers have enough muscle power anyway. Don't even both taunting Vaporeon on its scald burn. Jellicent trades spikes support to walling almost everything the same and then some more and they're both at the same rank. Garb is better too. (hardly see that mon lol)

Unrank. Even if Flygon leaves this mon is still bad... :( Auto loses to balance. Cute special check tho but that doesn't warrant a ranking.

Unrank. I don't think I saw a single Rhydon in my last 500 NU matches. It's tiny niche is defeating those pesky birds (Xatu and Talonflame). You have to choose who you want to beat between Flygon and Levitate Bronzing (ice punch and smack down?) No recovery and always forced out by water/grass. Too many flaws even for C rank. Stick to Muds sorry unless you're ultra desperate. It's just bad sorry :/

 

[Sabella]

Rhydon should absolutely be moved from C ------> at least B+.

A ground plus rock type that can get stealth rock check both talonflame and Salazzle and pressure other ground types like flygon and grasses like Vileplume, Decidueye Dhelmise and Rotom-m with ice punch is extremely uncommon. It also has access to SD Rock Polish and fire coverage for bronzong if you choose. It also has the added bonus of coming in on Aero as well. I think for its overall use in the tier and ability to function with and without wish well is an added bonus.

 

[Danny]

Gonna make some noms of my own, as I haven’t posted in awhile and I think this new update warrants a lot of discussion. I’m going to start with my proposed rises and then move my way down to some drops.

Rises

A+———>S
Rotom mow is one of the premier pivots/offensive threats of the meta, and that is reflective through its use in NUPL, and it’s general lack of solid counters in the tier. There are no relevalt Volt Switch inmunes that can stop this mon from garnering momentum bar defensive Flygon, and that is overwhelmed by mowtom’s other sets. It’s set versatility and it’s ability to run anything from Scarf to NP, warrant it rising in my opinion. Although this is a bit of speculating, with Flygon leaving to RU, Rotom Mow is going to become even better. Not going to provide replays for this one because you could just visit the NUPL replays thread for countless examples of Mowtom volting through unprepared teams. Not to mention it’s defog pivot set which Will-o-Wisps it’s checks and then gives it the ability to bring in any threat it wants.

A———>A+
A smaller nom here, but starmie has established itself as a premier breaker, ruining unprepared teams with its LO Recover set. It’s coverage is perfect to break through teams, and with Analytic it hits extremely hard on forced switches. With recover it has longevity compared to other breakers, making it perfect for longer and drawn out games, Meta trends towards Bronzong or Diancie as the main SR setters on many teams help Starmie even more. Have some replays of Starmie being a threat and just ruining teams that otherwise should be fine vs it with a Vaporeon or some other supposed check.

Starmie Replays

Grand Slam Play Offs where Expulso’s Starmie paved the way for its teammates to win the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565677

Grand Slam Play Offs where Punny’s Starmie(albeit a bit lucky) manages to break through ninjadog’s team and win, even while taking passive damage from spikes and Vapo’s Scald.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-566983

Some NUPL replays of Starmie doing starmie things
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-567214
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-560346
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565560

As you can see it’s a strong and potent breaker that deserves its ability to disrupt teams be reflected on the VR.

B+———>A
Despite its low usage in NUPL and GS, Exploud deserves a rise soul on its ability to cleave through teams. One check isn’t enough, as it 3hkos the standard Physical Defensive Bronzong, and wears down Copperrajah and Diancie like nobody’s business. Many times I choose to run Heatproof Bronzong because I live in perpetual fear of getting yelled at by this major threat. It also has a great match up against common cores, and has the ability to weaken walls so that other potential wincons can clean up late game for it. Very threatening and should rise to reflect that.

Exploud Replays

BLT Week 1 Exploud claims almost every time it’s in.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1349585651

NUPL replay of me using it against Kink, showing how it removed one of Comfey’s checks to allow for the sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565813

BLT Week 4 Exploud messes me up(oppo got very lucky this game, but it was still a huge threat every time it got in.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1361206188-itr4hr6yp1rx2zz90ffb26ny4288i0npw

B———>A-
Goodra is another one of those extremely potent wall breakers with very few checks and counters due to its near perfect coverage. It gets in and if it hits it’s moves and predicts correctly, it is able to completely wreck standard balance and fat teams in this current meta. Deserves a rise because of this ability, and the defensive capabilities it has with its monstrous SpD, able to stay in and 1v1 many threats which would scare out other breakers.

Goodra Replays

3 NUPL Replays one of mine, and one of A Rabbit’s and Sensei Axew’s goodras putting in insane work vs teams which have supposed checks like Copper and Diancie. Iron Tail is an amazing tech which catches kids off guard by luring in Diancie, and it was used to perfection in both of these replays.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565679
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-567214
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-561304

B———>A-/B+
Jask is one of the few mons alongside Decidueye which has stood through the massive shifts of time and remained a relevant threat in SS NU. It’s ability to negate the concept of speed control control coupled with the addition of HDB make it a very splashable and easy to use mon in the tier. It also has a lot of good meta trends working in its favor, such as Defensive Flygon not being able to touch it, and the fact that many of our steel and rock types lack any form of recovery besides Leftovers. It lures in Copper/Diancie so that other slower wall breakers such as Sirfetch’d, Magneton, and your own copper can get in relatively free. It also singlehandedly beats most offensive teams through its ability and SD. Very potent threat and deserves to rise because of these reasons.

Ninjask Replays

TC using my team to success in NU Open Semis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-561469

NUPL Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-562704
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1337383769-7glb0i5ebvg62m7z9itmfhvgtyhpc8rpw

C———>B-
There are a lot of meta trends that have helped Comfey succeed as it has. The first one is the tend towards Bronzong as the preferred steel type for fat/balance teams. Yes Copper is still great and I’ll get into why people are using Bronzong more later in this post, but Bronzong is popping up more and more. Now why would this be a good thing for Comfey? Because for some reason many people are foregoing Steel STAB on Zong for Body Press+ID/Psychic. It makes sense as hitting copper and Salazzle is really nice for zong, but it also misses out on one of Zong’s main roles as a Fairy Resist. CM Comfey capitalized on that, as with a bit of chip it is able to beat Zong and other threats, potentially sweeping teams. Another trend, is how easy Talonflame is to Knock off. That makes it so that it’s two main checks get worn down really easily or are outright beaten. Priority STAB is also really nice to beat faster threats.

Comfey Replays

Probably the best replay of Comfey sweeping a team is my game vs Kink, where it’s Zong was unable to touch it, and it ended up being traded for a Garbodor. Talonflame was also let go, as Exploud, had no switch ins, so when the oppo locked it’s passimian into CC to revenge kill the Exploud, Comfey set up and won. All this not to mention the role compression it’s defensive set has. U-turn for momentum on steels and Talon, Defog to remove hazards, and still retaining the ability to revenge weakened threats with Dkiss, make it albeit situational but still solid defensive pivot and fight resist.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565813

Some more replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-565560
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-567197

C———C+/B-
Not gonna say much on this one, as it’s featured in one of the Ninjask replays, but it’s STAB combo is effective at disrupting common cores, and works really well in tandem with Jask/CM Comfey/Sylv etc in wearing down steel types for these win cons to sweep. Has a solid noche in the tier, and that should be reflective on the VR

Drops
oh u thought I was done, nah we’re just getting started. Not going to be as in detail with my drops as I am with my rises, but these are a few of the mons that I think are either overrated or their influence over represented in the VR.

S———>S-/A+
This is a big one. Many people swear by Copper as the best mon in the tier, but I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration from earlier on in the meta before other defensive steels were as explored. Personally, I think it’s not as good or splashable as Bronzong, and there are a few reasons for that. The first one is the fact that many times, it can’t fit all the move/items it really wants. It wants SR/Heat Crash/Heavy Slam/Iron Head(for glast and guzz)/Whip/Edge/Superpower/Protect(for more lefties). It judt can’t realistically hit everything it wants unless it uses AV, and in that case it loses a lot of the longevity that it has with Lefties. Another issue with Copper is the amount of mons that just roost stall you to oblivion. Xatu walls the SR set until it’s in range of Heatwave/FP, and it chips it down really easily with Rocky Helmet. Defensive Flygon is another mon which switches in and forces mind games between Heavy Slamming again or switching out, and it’s a weighted turn because the gon player just roosts and gains momentum with U turn. Don’t misunderstand, Copper is still extremely effective in its role as an overall special sponge and hard hitting attacker. But the fact that many Bronzongs are running Body Press, Diancies are generally faster and hit it with a strong BPress, and the prevalence of fighting types like Passimian and Sirfetch’d hurt it a lot. On the other hand Zong is able to live hits, and although it doesn’t like Sir, it can still generally eat a hit and Psychic back. Another trend which hurts it is the fact that many Bronzong users are opting for Heatproof over Levitate. This has many reasons but the main ones are to be a safer Specs Exploud and Sylveon switch in, while now being able to beat Copper not running EQ. Guzzlord usage still being stable, and many times Copper doesn’t pack as much of a punch as it did earlier on in this meta. Overall, these changes warrant a slight drop, just to reflect it not being as overwhelmingly threatening as it once was.

A+———>A
Don’t get me wrong Glast is still a major threat and near impossible to switch into, but I would have to say I was wrong in voting ban during the suspect, it’s uses and sweeps are very few and far between. It struggles with the rise of Arcanine as a defensive Copper check, doubling as a means to beat Glast. It also dislikes the fact that many teams are packing ID Zong as a potential win condition, making it extremely difficult for Glast to get a sweep with SD or ID itself. Overall, although a pain in the ass to deal with for some teams, many inadvertently pack multiple checks and counters to Glast, making it less effective than many of the A+ mons like Sir and Sylveon. It’s also a pain to build with because of its awful defensive typing, making it not worth the effort in using most of the time.

Some minor drops which warrant very little explanation:

B+———>B/B-
Not nearly as good as it once was, mantine struggles with the uptick in Heliolisk usage and the fact that it can’t wall as many threats as it once did. Another issue with Mantine is the spread issue. It wants Physical D because of Flygon/Sir/Copper, but also wants SpD for Celebi and Dragalge. I actually really like Mantine, but I don’t think it’s nearly as good as offensive water absorbers and Vaporeon itself. Kinda torn on this one myself but i still believe it isn’t that good at the current moment.

B+———>B
Dude this thing had its moment in the sun, but now it is near nowhere to be seen. Still a threat to unprepared teams, but the prevalence of mons which can stomach a hit and OHKO back, make it very sad. Also the rise in Sylveon usage over Vaporeon as the cleric of many teams don’t help it’s cause.

B———>C+
As many might remember I was abig proponent of Silvally ghost during the Cresselia meta, but it’s necessityis near gone in the current NU. Rise of Drapion, and Guzzlord usage make it so sweeps with Silvally Ghost are extremely difficult to pull off, and Talonflame being able to WoW it extremely easily also hurts it. I think it still has a niche but it’s extremely small and should be reserved on HO or spikestack teams exclusively, making it not as good as our other ghosts. Also it being in the same rank ascat breaking menaces such as Braviary, Goodra, and Ttrum is almost criminal.We should probably drop this.

Also agree w p much everything RW said in their post, regarding the drops. Hope you guys enjoyed and please feel free to disagree or agree here in the thread!

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

So pointless given there’s basically gonna be a drastic but ill react to some stuff that doesnt sit well with me.

Choice Specs is definitely the best set and alleviates many of the damage shortcomings Choice Scarf sets have. Thunderbolt / Hyper Voice / Volt Switch / Dark Pulse has great coverage and really just requires for you to predict properly to go off against most teams. The only uncomfortable situations I really ever have with Heliolisk are when up against Flygon + Normal-resistant Pokemon cores because picking between Hyper Voice and Volt Switch sucks lol. Otherwise, though, I really like Heliolisk in this metagame; it's good to stay where it's at as of now I think.

Choice Spec Helilisk isn’t as good as scarf. Specs is really hard to fit. While both sets have some of the same issues of not handling Protect walls while the scout n go to switch-ins, scarf still has incredible utility as a revenge killer and cleaner. It’s virtually the fastest scarfer and outspeeding +2 Toise is always a gr8 thing. Hvoice is also awesome for the other two scarfers so again cleaning with it is totally plausible. Specs instead is slower than Starmie and Talonflame and can outright lose to them depending on their coverage. Once its in, the Speed isn’t that worthwhile compared to much harder to switch into wallbreakers with spammable STABs like Exploud and Sylveon. What, specs does a chunk more to like Drapion and Croak? Like there’s nothing there in that Speed range where you’d want more power vs wanting more Speed for legit every other scarfer, setup sweeper, Tauros, Starmie, Talonflame, Inteleon even like that extra speed is mandatory to me. Like sure build a specs Helio team but you have my word that a scarf helio team + a better wallbreaker will do much more for you.

Helio is also extremely relevant in the current meta as its an anti-HO mon + fits on balance and volturn perfectly. I consider it an A rank.

Escavalier B ---> B+

Not gonna overhype this too much so I'm nominating it for B+. I think we all know as an overview what Escavalier does but what makes it good right now is the ability to blanket check a decent chunk of the metagame + pressuring bulkier teams which separates it enough over Zong and Copper. A desirable niche right now.


Escavalier @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 32 Def / 208 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Toxic

I've sometimes felt that some of my teams struggled with breaking bulky balance, even with wallbreakers /specs/band but Escavalier does all that without being locked and has bulk / passive recovery. IMO megahorn is better than protect which is the key element to pressuring teams. Ultimately, the knock + toxic combo annoys everything. What really wants to switch into that combo right now? Not too much since Vaporeon, Flygon, Talonflame, Guzzlord, Bronzong and Mudsdale etc seem to be the norm these days. Sooner or later, something will be dropping and you can takes hits from these well enough. All I can think of is Weezing in my head. It's pretty easy to fit on a balance/bulky balance teams in the same essence to its counterparts as a steel type, team members like Diancie and Vaporeon work well giving Heal Bell / Wish Support. The opportunity cost isn't much lower.

As for being a blanket check, from full HP it's a decent choice if you need an emergency check to neutral attackers like Glastrier, Diancie, non ID Bronzong, Rotom-Mow, Tauros and weakened Blastoise for example. +2 Close Combat fails to ohko from Glastrier, you while you can retaliate with Iron head. Some of the key bonuses are countering threats like Crit Inteleon, Celebi, Critdra, Comfey, Wish Sylveon and Dragalge which do pop up so I kinda think Escavalier takes both the offensive and defensive elements from Copper and Zong.

Here's a replay as an example in a NU room tour.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1362758977

The matchup was rather average at first but Escavalier really pulled through from the midgame onwards. Diancie + Escavalier make a great core together covering weakness but between knocking off Talonflame and getting up rocks, Vaporeon just couldn't handle it nor was Diancie/Flygon a problem thus ultimately winning me the game.

Other Pokemon (Drops)

Some of the lower ranks are a bit saturated.

Unrank. More a fun meme than viable. Not fast, strong or bulky enough, moveslot syndrome and needs a bunch of support. Not even knock off warrants using this over Ninjask.

Unrank. You can make anything work but it's still bad? Unless you can show me some replays or something I still stand by this notion of it being bad. I already made a post about how bad this is but how far is 45 speed and terrible defensive typing going to get you? I'll link my past post here.

Unrank. Really bad. Idk... it barely beats Glast with taunt and then loses to Sirfetch’d and every special attacker. Intimidate is detrimental and most other physical attackers have enough muscle power anyway. Don't even both taunting Vaporeon on its scald burn. Jellicent trades spikes support to walling almost everything the same and then some more and they're both at the same rank. Garb is better too. (hardly see that mon lol)

Unrank. Even if Flygon leaves this mon is still bad... :( Auto loses to balance. Cute special check tho but that doesn't warrant a ranking.

Unrank. I don't think I saw a single Rhydon in my last 500 NU matches. It's tiny niche is defeating those pesky birds (Xatu and Talonflame). You have to choose who you want to beat between Flygon and Levitate Bronzing (ice punch and smack down?) No recovery and always forced out by water/grass. Too many flaws even for C rank. Stick to Muds sorry unless you're ultra desperate. It's just bad sorry :/

Agree with Esca rising. I’d go as far as A- because Steel-types are mandatory and its a perfect sidegrade for a lot of teams that want its Knock Off support and passive recovery. Can’t beat it

Rhydon should absolutely be moved from C ------> at least B+.

A ground plus rock type that can get stealth rock check both talonflame and Salazzle and pressure other ground types like flygon and grasses like Vileplume, Decidueye Dhelmise and Rotom-m with ice punch is extremely uncommon. It also has access to SD Rock Polish and fire coverage for bronzong if you choose. It also has the added bonus of coming in on Aero as well. I think for its overall use in the tier and ability to function with and without wish well is an added bonus.

Rhydon is just super vulnerable to a lot, whereas Flygon and Mudsdale have better typings and utility. It takes a specific build to want Rhydon support, otherwise its way better to build around Flygon or Muds. I can see B- at best cause otherwise a higher ranking would imply it’s more comparable to Muds, but way more teams need Muds as a blanket physwall then they need the bulky offense of Rhydon.

Kingdra had a great perfomance in NU open. It only failed once because it missed a Draco and yes that’s an inherent prob with it compared to toise which has hax in its favor more often. Still B+ is pretty fitting for teams that want to use it because it’s one of our most threatening, hard to check wincons.

Another great performer in both NUPL and open has been ID Bronz. Bails people out of games oml the Rest set is so good atm. By far the best role compression as a wincon. I also believe its better than copper atm, with copper dropping to A+ and bronz rising to S-. Until the meta adapts to adequately dealing with ID sets then I see it as S- worthy; a set above the A+ ranks.
Also agree with dani with everything else!

 

[Rabia]

So pointless given there’s basically gonna be a drastic but ill react to some stuff that doesnt sit well with me.

Choice Spec Helilisk isn’t as good as scarf. Specs is really hard to fit. While both sets have some of the same issues of not handling Protect walls while the scout n go to switch-ins, scarf still has incredible utility as a revenge killer and cleaner. It’s virtually the fastest scarfer and outspeeding +2 Toise is always a gr8 thing. Hvoice is also awesome for the other two scarfers so again cleaning with it is totally plausible. Specs instead is slower than Starmie and Talonflame and can outright lose to them depending on their coverage. Once its in, the Speed isn’t that worthwhile compared to much harder to switch into wallbreakers with spammable STABs like Exploud and Sylveon. What, specs does a chunk more to like Drapion and Croak? Like there’s nothing there in that Speed range where you’d want more power vs wanting more Speed for legit every other scarfer, setup sweeper, Tauros, Starmie, Talonflame, Inteleon even like that extra speed is mandatory to me. Like sure build a specs Helio team but you have my word that a scarf helio team + a better wallbreaker will do much more for you.

Helio is also extremely relevant in the current meta as its an anti-HO mon + fits on balance and volturn perfectly. I consider it an A rank.

I disagree a huge amount and think you vastly undersell how potent Choice Specs Heliolisk is while overselling Choice Scarf. Heliolisk's coverage is absolutely fantastic and with proper prediction lets it ravage games really well. Combine this with nice defensive utility, albeit utility you must play aggressively around to make the most of, and the ability to pivot, and you've got its niche over the other wallbreakers you mention that are a bit above its Speed tier. With the decline in hyper offense since Light Clay's ban, I've found Choice Scarf Heliolisk to be much more situational than before; I almost always prefer an alternative means of supporting other potent wallbreakers unless I just REALLY need the insurance of Choice Scarf Heliolisk.

I agree with your conclusion about Heliolisk being underranked, though; I wouldn't go as high as you, but A- is definitely more fitting for it. (Of course, with Flygon's imminent departure, who knows where it will end up!)

 

[Sabella]

Rhydon is just super vulnerable to a lot, whereas Flygon and Mudsdale have better typings and utility. It takes a specific build to want Rhydon support, otherwise its way better to build around Flygon or Muds. I can see B- at best cause otherwise a higher ranking would imply it’s more comparable to Muds, but way more teams need Muds as a blanket physwall then they need the bulky offense of Rhydon.

The only thing muds has going for it is that it has leftovers. Muds compared rhydon is extremely passive and has the same vulnerability issues as rhydon has to water and grass moves but doesnt have the nice speed that rhydon has to outpace mons like copperajah. I will concede on flygon but like i said muds does not check salazzle along with talon which Rhydon does. That is fantastic roll compression. Fighting resists in NU are easy to come by compared to grounds that have good utility. I could easily see it at B or B+. It would sit below muds still but id argue its viability is similar to muds.

 

[Stories]

new VR noms from yours truly, now that the tier has settled for admittedly far too long (hopefully shifts make things more exciting)

A+ to S
honestly comical that this hasn't been done yet. This mon is one of the 3 of "Steel type + Ground type + Eeveelution" that makes up SO many of the best teams in the tier. We already have the best Steel and Ground type in S tier, it only makes sense the best Eeveelution joins it. Vaporeon is such a blanket check to so many Pokemon and quite frankly determines the viability of others simply by being in the tier. Some people say Vaporeon is too passive however that is simply not true at all. 110 Base special attack with Scald and having access to Toxic and Roar to disrupt Pokemon trying to set up on a "passive" Pokemon are more than enough to warrant running its defensive sets.

B+ to A
hot take here but this thing is more problematic than Sirfetch'd. The lowest amount of damage this guy will ever do with Boomburst is nearly 3HKO the bulkiest Normal-resist in the tier, which is AV Copperajah; this is ignoring the fact that Overheat cleanly 2HKO's and also puts Copperajah in range of a Boomburst later. Exploud is also not prone to chip like Burn like its physical breaker counterparts like Tauros, and with serviceable bulk and ghost-immunity, it can actually come in more often than other breakers. Outside of the 2 viable Steel types in the tier, Exploud cleanly OHKO's all offensive mons and cleanly 2HKO's all defensive mons with the exception of like max SDef Vaporeon.

B to A
I have never seen a mon that allows me to enter team preview and say "oh, I just win with Braviary" as often as I do with Braviary. This is on high ladder, test games, tournament games; not just a noob-killer mon, a legit threat. So many teams rely so much on Passive damage to wear down faster offensive threats just to get blocked by Brav Substitute. the fact that you can EV to outspeed breakers like Exploud and Fetch'd while at the same time Sub on Vaporeon's Scalds and still provide offensive damage output with or without boosts is insane. (I really need to save replays bc I have so many Brav sweeps) You can Sub on so much of the tier including Vape, Flygon, Bronzong, Xatu, Decidueye, and so many forced switches. You also get +2 ATTACK if your opponent ever clicks Defog, so you effectively force hazards to stay on the field.

ik shifts will make lots of this outdated but I wanted to get some opinions out on some of my most recent mons

 

[Finchinator]

I think we would make an nomination S- before nominating Vaporeon straight to S. To me, there is a clear distinction between it and the other S rank prospects. Vaporeon is something you can easily take advantage of, it is limited in terms of what it can do, and it also gives out lots of free turns due to Protect reliance for recovery.

Obviously Vaporeon is an amazing option that still provides a premium defensive presence coupled with unmatched utility, but I think it stands out a lot less than things you would normally see in S due to its downsides. I think this is enough cause for us to consider S- as a fringe tier for it in the interim or for it to even remain A+ (which I personally prefer given how soon shifts are — can always move afterwards) before heading straight to S.

 

[roxie]

C -> C+/B-

Set

Absol @ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Tail
- Close Combat

Looking at our other Dark-types, Zoroark and Guzzlord, I feel like Absol offers something totally different than the two. Its coverage in Close Combat and Iron Tail is what makes it different from Zoroark and its access to Sucker Punch and a faster Speed tier is what differentiates it from Guzzlord. With many specially defensive walls like Copperajah, Guzzlord, Dragalge, and Vaporeon running around, I find it hard for Zoroark to better than Absol along with easily being forced out by common Choice Scarf users like Flygon and Rotom-C. Its physical set also lacks the coverage to hit Fairy-types like Sylveon and Comfey and its best physical form of damage to Dark-types is sadly clicking U-turn. Absol is usually on Spike builds with something like Ferroseed or Garbodor and I've personally been liking Absol + Ferroseed + Weezing. Zoroark should not be higher than Absol, please exchange the rankings for them!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1356083448-e87b9rufpn56h9hjnxeqilrqsb0eaoppw


UR -> C / C+

Set

Cofagrigus @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Rest
- Shadow Ball

With insane Bronzong sets like Rest + Iron Defense rising, I only see it as a win for Ghost-types. Chesto Berry is an amazing status absorber for stuff like Bronzong's Toxic (that would affect other Ghost-types like Decidueye and Golurk) and Vaporeon's Scald. Thanks to Iron Defense and Mummy, Cofargrigus becomes an effective Sirfetch'd check by eliminating its Scrappy. Being able to take Knock Off's and recover from attacks gives this Pokemon viability in the metagame IMO. Please only use Iron Defense on this Pokemon.

Set

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off / Giga Drain
- Leech Seed / Giga Drain

UR -> C
Ferroseed is an underrated Steel-type and obviously, it's outclassed by Bronzong and Copperajah. However, its viability comes from its access to dual hazards in Stealth Rock and Spikes and its defensive Grass / Steel typing, similar to Ferrothorn in upper tiers. Its Grass / Steel typing is really useful for checking offensive Water-types like Starmie and Inteleon and even Blastoise if it's using Giga Drain. Knock Off provides amazing utility like removing Heavy-Duty Boots from threats like Talonflame or Arcanine that will try switching in. Ferroseed shouldn't be used as your Sylveon check and you should pair this with a Poison-type like Salazzle or Weezing to help with Sylveon and Comfey. View NUPL IX Usage Stats/Replays and Grand Slam Replays to see this Pokemon in action.


I support the Bronzong rise as I mentioned before.

 

[Catalisador]

Quick thoughts before the metagame shifts.

RIP RIP ​

Rises:
A+ -> S-

• Bronzong solidified itself as a top-tier defensive staple on the current SS NU metagame. Thanks to its ability to pick and chose its checks with its abilities Heatproof and Levitate and an extremely diverse support movepool allowing it to fulfill a plethora of different niches such as defensive SR, lure Skill Swap and Iron Defense win-con, I believe the bell pokémon should see a rise as it is a clear standout amongst our A+ list, in my opinion - usage and win percentage alike.

B+ -> A

• Exploud is an amazing breaker. Its Scrappy ability is one of the most powerful in the game, allowing it to spam Boomburst with no drawback, while its wide coverage makes it absolutely impossible to safely switch into without a Heatproof Bronzong on your team (which gets bopped by tech Shadow Ball, btw). It has also been seeing a deserved surge in popularity.

B- -> B

• Spikes is, arguably, on the top 5 most broken moves in pokémon history and one of the main reasons Garbodor stands out as an excellent pick on the current meta, which lacks in spiker diversity (I guess we could always use Maractus, am I right?). Furthermore, defensive Poison-typing and decent support movepool in moves such as Corrosive Gas and Pain Split make this pile of hot garbage a pile of hot garbage wrapped in golden plastic bags. Absolutely worth a rise.

A -> A+

• Guzzlord's defensive and offensive capabilities cannot be understated. Its ability to spam Knock Off and coverage Heavy Slam while tanking hits from common threats in Rotom-Mow, Decidueye and Dhelmise, Copperajah lacking Superpower and even LO Starmie makes it an extremely splashable unit in the current metagame, in my eyes.

C -> C+

• I'm proposing a small rise to Uxie mainly thanks to its capabilities as a setup sweeper with its Calm Mind set. Mimicking former NU behemoth Cresselia, it is able to come in and get easy setup opportunities against the majority of the NU metagame while moves like Rest and Draining Kiss keep in rest (the latter also hits pesky Dark-types for super-effective damage). Here are some replays showcasing Uxie's potential:
• High-level gameplay vs. NU superstar Young Lilo: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1367041480-sn3wcb1fmheiq0iwlbsyioroqfu8244pw
• High-ladder replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1362615814-lw70a0d20ojc4x2l9k6jyz9a9z0coqhpw

A- -> A

• Very consistent and versatile defensive glue that checks a plethora of powerful threats in the current metagame. Xatu is a fantastic pick and should definitely see a rise.

Drops:

B -> lower

• I'm not particularly sure where to place Goodra, I just think it is a very underwhelming pokémon currently. Maybe with the shifts it'll finally pick up some more usage but as of right now it fails to fulfill any specific niche in a significant way that isn't ouclassed by other better, stronger, more well-suited pokémon.

B- -> C+

• I don't think Passimian is living up to its reputation. Fierce Fighting-type competition from the likes of Sirfetch'd and Hitmonlee makes it hard to fit this monkey on a team. Furthermore, for a scarfer on the current metagame, 80 base speed is just extremely mediocre, leaving it outsped by the likes of Flygon, Rotom-Mow, Heliolisk and even tech Scarf Xatu. It is just extremely unimpressive in any way, in my opinion.

C+ -> C

• Qwilfish fulfills an extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, specific niche. I don't think it possesses the sheer splashability, utility or power to warrant a spot anywhere higher than C currently, personally.

A+ -> A

• I might be nitpicking, but I just think Sylveon faces too much competition from Vaporeon as the premier cleric in the current metagame. I often want to run this little critter but Vaporeon just seems like the optimal pick instead due to metagame trends. I think A is more appropriate for it, personally.

URs:
C -> UR

• Just to be consistent with Thwackey, to be fair. I believe Pincurchin should be unranked. Seriously, this pokémon provides NO utility other than setting up its terrain.

Troubling mons:

• In my opinion, these three are the most clearly "broken" pieces in the current metagame. We'll see how the meta reshapes after shifts, but, for now, these 3 are the clear standouts.

 

[roxie]

On Zong, S makes no sense imo. Copper is still the better Steel-type with very similar utility but with the added benefit of a true offensive presence that Zong doesn't have. The rise of Xatu, Guzz, Drap, and Ghost-types also hurts it. ID BP sets are cool, but abusable by a lot of our special attackers and it often lacks the tools/situation to really sweep. Heatproof is another cool option of course as a Salazzle answer among other things, especially on teams with multiple Ground immunities, but neither of those two alterations we have seen recently on Zong can replace Copper, let alone place it in S.

Week 2

Week 3

Week 4

Week 5

Week 6

Week 7

Semifinals

I'm not sure how I feel about this, Bronzong feels like a pretty customizable Pokemon in terms of what the team needs. Trick + Toxic Orb has become a set to beat defensive Pokemon like Xatu and Vaporeon, Iron Defense + Body Press does great vs Dark-types like Drapion and Guzzlord, and according to the NUPL Usage Stats, Ghost usage is extremely low besides Golurk. Bronzong is also capable of using Toxic to hit stuff like Golurk and Decidueye on its ID or utility set.

Copperajah's best set is Assault Vest and usually, its SR set can't fit Stone Edge, causing it to be straight-up walled by Talonflame and Arcanine. Copperajah is still good for its movepool like Superpower, Play Rough, and Stone Edge its pure Steel-typing is what holds it back. Bronzong is able to use a multitude of sets like Trick+Orb, ID+Press+Rest, ID+Press+Trick, Flash Cannon, and Utility Slam.

Bronzong is not instantly forced out by Ground-types like Mudsdale and Flygon, Fire-types like Salazzle and Arcanine, Diancie, and Fighting-types like Sirfetch'd and Machamp. Because Copperajah is forced out by so much, it really ruins the momentum for the overall team. If you observe the NUPL stats above, you will see Bronzong being used more over Copperajah as the tour progressed in later weeks. Bronzong is also the #1 used Tyrantrum and Glastrier check because of its defenses and access to ID + Press. Are we forgetting how Glastrier just subbed on our Stealth Rockers: Mudsdale and Copperajah? Rather than listing what could possibly wall it, let us look at how the current metagame and tournaments are following and focus on Copperajah vs Bronzong in S.

 

[Rabia]

Locking this because we're currently working on a slate to have up before the shifts just so we have a final lookback at the metagame with Flygon in it.

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
The VR council has had some updated. quziel has stepped down from the council, and brought on to replace him is turtledoggo1. Make sure to congratulate him when you get the chance! The slate went up on June 27th, and we were able to finish the vote with a 3 day turnaround, so thank you to the VR council for your votes. The shifts are less significant than last time, and I'll also go into the tiering process since many feel like it isn't transparent enough. By the way, we recognize these shifts leave Flygon as the only S rank, and will be working to update this for the new meta as the meta changes with the shifts.

Rises and Drops

Rises:
A+ -> S-
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
C -> C+
C -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C

Drops:
S -> S-
S- -> A+
A -> A-
B -> B-
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

Note:
I am the sole author of all of these reasonings, and therefore, the opinions of every council member may not be fully reflected.

Rises:
A+ -> S-: Bronzong has seen a huge surge in use, from a Copperajah check with Heatproof to a sweeper with Body Press + Iron Defense. It is both a Steel-type Stealth Rocker that competes with Copperajah, checking different things, and is also a worthwhile mon without Stealth Rocks, proving it needs more prep than previously thought.
A- -> A: Celebi keeps doing what it does best, which is abusing Vaporeon and forcing holes in common balance structures using Nasty Plot plus Recover to outlast its checks and break teams.
B+ -> A-: Exploud has gotten a lot better with the exploration of non-choiced sets, allowing it to threaten almost anything with a Boomburst, then threaten its checks with a super-effective move afterwards. The rise of Diancie doesn't help it, but it still proves to be very potent in the current meta.
B -> B+: Braviary has proven itself to be a great Ghost resist with the falling of Guzzlord in viability, serving well as both a Choice Scarf user and a Heavy-Duty Boots mon due to its powerful Brave Bird. It has both Close Combat to pressure Steels that would give its STAB some troubles, as well as Iron Head to lure and punish Diancie.
B -> B+: Tyrantrum is just a very good breaker, and the VR council decided that the drop last time was not justified even given the rise of checks due to its stranglehold against bulky cores, forcing them into bad 50/50s especially if Flygon is their check.
B- -> B: Spikes has gotten much better, pressuring many teams and facilitating the rise of Pokemon such as Xatu. Garbodor also serves as a great physical check, one of the best checks to Sirfetch'd as well as checking dangerous Pokemon like Toxicroak. Eyes will be on this to rise after Flygon leaves the tier.
C -> C+: Absol is able to provide a lot of pressure with many teams using Diancie as the Dark resist, Iron Tail breaking through them quite easily. Its powerful attack stat combined with SD is nothing to scoff at, giving many balances severe problems, but its frailty holds it back a lot.
C -> C+: Rhydon is often used as a Salazzle check, while also having the ability to put offensive pressure on against balances and pressure Xatu. However, it can be hard to justify over other Ground types, though its niche cannot be ignored.
UR -> C+: Charizard has seen a rise in usage, often providing a more offensive Fire type and being used in Slam as a Fire-type that can beat Vaporeon with Mystical Fire. The VR council isn't quite sure how good Charizard is, or if its just a fad, so we've opted to be a bit conservative with its ranking.
UR -> C: Silvally-Steel sees a return to the VR after its unranking last time, providing a lot of utility in the Steel-type slot with Defog, as well as a possible SD set. However, it often doesn't have the offensive pressure that the other Steel-types provide, allowing other Pokemon in against it more easily.
UR -> C: Reiterating Garbodor, Spikes is very good, and Ferroseed provides a lot of Defensive utility alongside the Spikes to make it worth running. However, again, it lacks offensive pressure of the other Steel types and loses to Xatu as a Spiker.

Drops:
S -> S-: Copperajah has fallen off a bit, with checks such as defensive Flygon and Heatproof Bronzong rising in popularity. However, it still serves as a potent wall and breaker with its Assault Vest set in particular.
S- -> A+: Rotom-Mow's tour win percentage has seen a large dip over the course of NUPL, and rise of checks such as Flygon, Vileplume, and Dragalge makes it much harder for it to fill its role.
A -> A-: Guzzlord is still a really good check to Ghost and Psychic types, but defensive sets are quite easy to abuse, and offensive sets are very susceptible to chip by opposing Pokemon. This isn't helped by the fact that it doesn't synergize well with Wish, often only recovering about a third of its health.
B -> B-: Dhelmise has seen very little use recently, unable to make use of Anchor Shot and often relegating itself as a situational removal option that struggles to compete with other Grass types due to its inability to switch into Scald.
C+ -> C: Inteleon just doesn't have the breaking power that you expect from an offensive Water type in this tier, suffering severe competition from Starmie and Kingdra.
C+ -> C: Jellicent is a good way to punish Water and Fire types, but is often too hard for most teams to fit over other Water Absorbers that offer more utility.
C+ -> C: Qwilfish is a great physical wall, but it suffers from the fact that most of the Fighting-types have abilities that either block or punish Intimidate, as well as its weak Special Defense making it susceptible to even defensive Pokemon.
C+ -> C: Weezing is a solid Poison type with Levitate or Neutralizing Gas giving it a niche, but its hard to justify over the utility that Spikes gives you from Garbodor.
C+ -> C: Zoroark relies solely on baiting its intended target, lacking a lot of breaking power. Without landing its gimmick, the Zoroark user is often at a big disadvantage.
C -> UR: Hitmonlee isn't that good on Electric-Terrain or Grassy-Terrain teams, as Fighting resists are too common and there's too many ways to pressure it for it to be potent as a sweeper.
C -> UR: Against certain teams with solid Flying resists, Scyther is often at a huge disadvantage, unable to do much other than U-Turn with little to no breaking power.
C -> UR: Uxie still has a niche as a CM setup sweeper, but it has no reliable recovery in order to make it potent as one. The ban of Light Clay has also reduced its viability, as Xatu is seen as the sole viable Screens user.

How Tiering is Done

There has been a bit of concern within the NU Discord about the way we're currently doing the NU Viability Rankings, so I'd like to address our methods. Near the beginning of the shift, Rabia suggested that, along with the Pokemon nominated from UR, we vote on the entire slate. The reasoning provided for this was that our lower tier Pokemon often sit stagnant on the bottom of the VR, regardless of whether they are still viable or not, due to people choosing not to comb through the whole VR to nominate them. This is also similar to how CAP does VR votes, which is where this inspiration comes from. This has seen positive reception from the VR council, and the last 3 votes (including this one) have been done this way. If there's any concerns with this, you can post in the NU Discord or in this thread to voice those concerns, but the VR council has agreed that this way is preferable to get a better snapshot of the meta every vote, and that opinion on surprising drops can easily be undone in the next vote.

 

[turtledoggo1]

Hello, just gonna write a post about my votes casted and reasonings. A lot of this is just rambling/ redundant but wanted to explain everything briefly for clarity sakes and to potentially spark more discussion. Keep in mind that these are just my thoughts, and aren't 100% reflective of VR council as a whole. My votes will be indicated with an arrow like this -->

UR

--> C
Hits hard and hurricane is really annoying sometimes, also has somewhat of a good defensive typing and speed. Reason I didn't vote higher is because I feel like it just doesn't have the oomph to get desired damage/ hard to make consistent progress vs a lot of balances. I'll try to keep watching replays/ try to ladder with it more, feel like it's pretty unexplored. But as of right now, I just don't see it.

--> C
Others have explained it pretty well but I think steelvally has a small niche in the metagame. I find it really shines more on more offensive oriented teams (such as those ninjask pivot teams) momentum/speed is also super nice. Obviously not the best thing in the world but I think it's honestly not that bad

--> UR
Despite using it on sand teams and such (and having good success) I don't feel like it's worthy of a rank. Sand is still not that good and as a stand-alone mon, I feel its roles are preformed much better by other Pokemon (like aero, or even archeops).

-->UR
Looks really cool on paper, but just haven't seen any replays of it in action. Could be potentially good but I just don't see it yet. Will try to use cofagrigus more to form a better understanding of the mon. The only times I've seen it was on ladder, where I don't recall any times it actually did anything.

--> C
Cool utility and defensive typing ugh i miss roserade. Though it's a little passive imo and has Escavalier steel type syndrome. I think it's fine in C.

S

--> S-
I think Copper is still a really splashable, great mon. Feel like it can always find itself slotted on teams and punish those that aren't preparing for it. With that being said, I feel as if (in my experience) Bronzong is easier to slot on teams and has more overall utility. A lot of metagame trends aren't doing Copper any favors either, and in general it feels like it's forced out way more than something like Bronzong is.

--> S
Not much to say here but it's Flygon... pretty self explanatory.

--> S
Can do so many roles/compression. Like flygon, doesn't need much explanation and is always something that causes you to play on your toes. I don't think much has changed for rotom to drop, and think it's still one of the best mons in the meta.

--> A+
Maybe it's just me but I think Salazzle isn't on-par with the other S- ranks or worthy of S- in general. It's incredibly scary and potent don't get me wrong, but I feel as if it's quite easy to slot on checks, with its bulk being quite bad as well. It's also not as splashable to me imo.

A+

--> S-
Already explained a bit above but essentially it's just so splashable and has so much roles/utility. The ability to be a wincon, pick and choosing who you want to defensively check, and just being such a versatile mon really makes me love Bronzong. Its role compression is awesome, and in general it's just super annoying.

--> A+
Not much to say here, Diancie will do Diancie things. A+ is a good rank for it.

--> A+
Not much to say about this thing but it should stay A+. A nuke but slow and has some small longevity/breaking issues.

--> A
It's very good don't get me wrong, but is kinda awkward to build with and doesn't appreciate everybody using ID Bronzong and or other checks. DaniYSB explained it well in his post. Hard to bring in and has longevity issues.

:sirfetch --> A+
Idt it's S- or S worthy, it's just not as splashable as the other S ranks and isn't that difficult to account for in building (debatable though). It still has the same flaws as other slow wallbreakers, slow, not bulky but extremely potent. A+ works.

--> A+
Good wish passer, good breaker as well. Not much to say but it's pretty splashable/ easy to use + effective in its roles. I disagree it should drop to A since I feel like it's still pretty effective and versatile in what it does. It faces some competition from Vaporeon as a wish passer, sure. But I don't think it should drop solely because of that. I don't think much as really changed for it to warrant a drop.

--> A+
not much to say here either, excellent mon in the current meta.

--> A+
Feel like recent meta trends aren't doing so hot for Vaporeon, even if it's super splashable/a good glue. imo it's not hard to take advantage of it, and it's just not on the same level as the other mons in S ranks. Each set will have its own list of issues. At the same time I disagree it should fall to A, as it's still a really valuable glue for a lot of teams and is always something to keep in mind when building.

A

--> A
Annoying af but at the end of the day it's still a one-time setup sweeper. It always needs to be kept in a Pokeball throughout the duration of a game and will always have to wait for its checks to be weakened first. I don't think rapid spin or block trapper sets are that good either besides the surprise factor I guess. I'm not sure, I just don't think it has the utility/splashability or consistency as the other A+ mons. Still super oppresive though

--> A
It has a lot of good utility and defensive utility, but is also just so weak. Flygon/muds everywhere is not doing it any favors, and it doesn't have the most amazing bulk to consistently check what it needs to check (especially on the special side). Still super annoying sometimes and will almost always force progress onto the opposing team. A is good imo

--> A
Super amazing defensive typing, good bulk and has the coverage for everything it needs. It can spam the same moves over and over again and still force progress. I disagree it should drop further than it is, as I feel like its defensive typing and bulk is super valuable in the meta. It has so many potential tech moves/moves that it can use to bypass its checks, and is pretty splashable imo.

--> A
I think in the current meta, Starmie struggles a little bit with longevity and just chip damage in general. Its always gotta predict right and is revenged by common scarfers. Starmie is still really good and has like 0 switch-ins but just isn't A+ worthy imo.

A-

--> A-
Super versatile and flexible mon, but 4mss and crippling bug weakness is super off-putting to me. A- is where I personally think it belongs, I don't think it's as good as the other A or A+ mons.

--> A-
Crazy threatening wallbreaking and sweeping potential. It still has problems with both sets, and is still somewhat slow and frail. But the offensive power it holds is crazy... definitely A- for me.

--> A-
I am hesitant to raise this higher - it's terrifying and will always claim lives when predicted right, but isn't on the same level as sirfetch'd or even exploud imo. It needs to be more careful when clicking its moves (there's always gonna be some sort of resist or immunity) and even if you do get a kill, you invite in exploud and sirfetch'd. Not bad by any means but isn't A rank worthy

--> A-
just not as splashable/good as the mons above it. A lot of times I'd just much rather use flygon, and being walled by xatu isn't fun either. A really good physical wall and overall mon, A- is probably a good fit for it.

--> A-
I don't consider it a more consistent/better/more splashable mon than the rest of A ranks. That being said, it's probably a crime to rank it lower than it is now. Super scary breaker, though every team having a bulky ground is a little bit of an issue. Solid A- imo

--> A-
I think Vileplume is a good mon in the current meta. A lot of team structures just don't have good Vileplume counterplay, it's not something that people prepare for that often, at least from what I've seen. It has a lot of tools at its disposal such as corrosive gas/sleep/growth etc... and also has good defensive presence. I don't think it should drop (for the points just listed) but I also think it shouldn't rise, as a lot of its sets are still easily exploitable and the Xatu usage everywhere isn't helping.

B+

--> B+
B+ is honestly a fine place for it tbh. Sitting on Copperajah is cool + teleport makes it somewhat unique. However, a lot of times I prefer Talonflame as my bulky fire of choice for its extra utility and extra speed. As a physical wall, it struggles to keep up with sirfetch'd, grounds, knock-off users etc... I think B+ is probably okay for it.

--> A
Boomburst is a crazy move and the few checks it has is easily dealt with by teammates and right prediction/chip. It's a very easy mon to use and is always something you need to have a plan for when entering battle. Ghost immunity is also a nice side perk

--> A-
Imo Heliolisk is a really great mon. It has three viable items, and a pretty colorful moveset and can be quite a threatening wallbreaker/ force a lot of 50/50's. The side ghost immunity is nice too, similar to Exploud. I didn't vote higher as I feel like its stabs are way less spammable than something like Exploud, and I feel as if its bulk is lacking as well.

--> B
I'm sorry I just don't get the hype around this mon. I find it really lacking whenever I use it, I always find myself wanting to use a different mon over it. It also just seems a little too vulnerable to status/ not able to check the things it's supposed to check.

--> B+
I think Kingdra is still a very potent wallbreaker/sweeper in the current metagame. Once it gets going it's extremely hard to stop, crtical hits are no joke.

--> B+
This one was a little bit of a harder one for me, but I think B+ is probably a good ranking for it. For me personally I find it somewhat lacking in the damage department, but other times I feel it's very potent/can just claim lives very easily. I wouldn't be opposed to a rise, would love to hear what others have to say about it.

B

--> B+
This is another normal type that's just... so good. It can snowball out of control so fast, or just win on the spot from team preview. The immunities are really nice, and disregarding the BU sets it's got huge damage output.

--> B-
Perhaps this might be a little harsh but after using and testing Dhelmise I just don't think it's a B+ mon. Being slower than vapes sucks (unless u run speed but then u're not nearly as bulky). Spin seems cool but if you get status'd it's really bad, and makes your longevity low. In general I feel as if you're either too slow, too prediction reliant or just not bulky enough.

--> B+
I think Escav is still a good pick in the metagame, especially when paired with something like a Diancie to alleviate the fire weakness. It can be really annoying for a lot of teams, and imo is a really underrated mon. I personally like running AV, but I know a lot of other people are having success with protect + 2/3 moves.

--> B+
On the topic of underrated mons, I feel as if Goodra deserves a rise. It's a really potent balance breaker from my experience and has decent special bulk to switch in one or two times on dangerous breakers. Idk if I'd support a rise to A- just because of its prediction reliant nature and how it always needs to hit (which can often be pretty difficult)

--> B-
I feel as if Machamp is just so outclassed by Sirfetch'd that I don't see many reasons to use it, besides being able to switch into scald. Not much to say beyond that but yea, I just don't see it personally.

--> B+
Invalidates speed control, super dangerous cleaner and annoying presence in general. Again, there's not much to say but I think it's proven itself to be pretty good and useful.

--> B
(ghost) I don't think it should drop, but I also don't think it should rise. Still has a lot of flaws, but is also very potent at the right times. B works imo

--> B+
Not sure why this ever dropped this much but Tyrantrum still hits like an absolute truck. You're always denting/ohko'ing something and it's just super potent. B+ for sure.

B-

--> B-
Still a fine mon on HO teams and does its role pretty effectively. Beyond that I think offensive could be pretty cool, but as of now I don't see it being good. Basically keep it in B- because of its role on HO is what I'm trying to say.

--> B-
The damage output is pretty nice and the ability to sit on vapes and check Blastoise is neat too. It has some neat defensive traits and ability but is a little too physically squishy/ slow/ not that good outside of checking waters to warrant a rise.

--> B+
I love this mon a lot. Spikes are a great utility move and rocky helmet + rough skin can punish so many physical attackers. Aside from that, I love its ability to run spdef too. Being able to check dangerous threats such as Sylveon, Salazzle and more are good perks. Its utility in its moveset is also great.

--> B-
Idk I just don't view it as any better than B-. Each team already has multiple (usually) built-in fighting answers. U-turn is cool, but not when there's plume, talonflame and more and more rocky helmet Pokemon appearing.

C+

--> C+
Great offensive power and can bypass Xatu with moldbreaker SR sets. Super good mon, wouldn't be opposed to a raise further.

--> C
Idk, I just haven't see much reasons to use it besides a Vaporeon U-turn lure. Offensively I found it lacking and outclassed, and as a scarfer, I felt it lacked damage output and revenge killing capabilities.

--> C
Not sure if I agree that C+ is a good rating for it. Taunt is super cool but isn't something that warrants C+ imo. It walls most Glastrier but is vulnerable to status and isn't the most tanky thing around. C is a better ranking imo

--> C
RW explained it well. Super squishy and just generally outclassed by other Pokemon. Idk if it should be UR but I don't think it's C+ worthy.

--> B-
Super solid wincon, no fairy type = Scrafty will almost always win. Perhaps that was a little exaggerated, but the point still stands about how Scrafty can be such a menace to so many different teams.

--> C
After using and testing it I just feel it isn't good. Checks and counterplay to Virizion is everywhere, and it's just really hard to make consistent progress using Virizion.

--> C+
Neutralizing gas + defensive utility is super nice. Don't think it should drop any further.

--> C
What does this thing even do lol...

C

--> C+
I LOVE absol so much it's so good imo. Perhaps that was exaggerated a little bit but its sheer power and decent coverage is just so good to me. It has strong priority, decent speed to outspeed all of the slow wallbreakers, and just in general is always gonna make some sort of progress.

--> UR
After using it and testing it out on ladder, I can safely say that it's bad lol. Prediction reliant and is really easy to wear down. Going for the wrong move can be super devastating sometimes. The fact that it's also just outsped by every slow wallbreaker is also just super sad.

--> C
Electric terrain...

--> C+
I used to be on the Comfey hate train but honestly like... it's not that bad. It can clean through a lot of unprepared teams, with Leech seed sets also being quite potent/annoying.

--> C
I think sand teams have a very small niche in the metagame, which is honestly why I voted for gigalith to be C. Idt defensively it's worth it on a non-sand team. Would much rather use Diancie

--> C
Imo it's a fine pick on some HO teams and balances. It's got a lot of issues but it's C rank afterall... Don't mind too much that it's UR but wouldn't mind seeing it in C either.

--> C
Forcing chip on steels is always nice... works really well with other pivots such as Ninjask and whatnot. Not really sure what to say about this mon but in the right scenarios it's super potent.

--> C
Electric terrain

--> C
I'm not super convinced it's worthy of a higher rank but I'm not super opposed to it either. It has some nice defensive and offensive qualities, I'll give it that. So far from seeing people use it on ladder/test battles I just haven't been that convinced. Its typing is sometimes a double edged sword, and oftentimes I'd just rather use a different Pokemon than it. No recovery too and you oftentimes have to choose what you want to beat. Perhaps maybe when Flygon leaves...

--> UR
I don't see much reason to use it tbh. You have stronger flying stab and Knock off to set it apart from Ninjask, but I've just not been convinced it's good or worthy of a rank.

--> C'
Imo it's still a decent mon on some balances/offense teams. Chipping steels and such for other teammates is huge and in general, it can be pretty deadly. Would not be opposed for it to be UR though, and would love to hear what others have to say.

--> C
already explained in my other posts but I think its role compression and useful typing is really nice. CM is also a neat set on it.

Discussion Points

--> S-: Rotom-C to many is one of the most meta-defining mons. While to others, it's simply overrated and is not as good as other potential S- ranks. VR council is a little split, with some ranking it at A while others at S-. Whether it still encompasses the versatility and threat level needed to rise is a discussion worth opening up to the community.

--> Anywhere: While it’s obviously an extremely potent threat in the metagame, there has been some talk that Glastrier's influence simply may not be big enough for its current spot in A. It yields slightly shaky matchups against many of the higher ranked Pokemon of the tier and also suffers a tad from its punishable Speed and typing. Checks to it like ID Bronzong have also seen some notable improvement in recent weeks. Glastrier's presence as one of the tier’s most threatening wallbreakers is hard to forget, however, which makes whether to drop/rise it a bit of a tricky question.

--> A+: Blastoise is an extremely accessible offensive threat, capable of snowballing really fast. However, the Light Clay ban has made it a slightly harder mon to adequately support. Its nature as a one-time sweeper prevents it from tapping into the perks of its bulk as much as it'd like to, often making it harder to optimize its sweeping potential. It's still quite potent, though. With many saying that the screens nerf didn't impact Blastoise in a large way. Whether it deserves a rise is an interesting question.

--> Anywhere: Mantine has developed a larger niche recently as a Pokemon that offers fairly valuable support. It matches up quite nicely against fighters, fires, setup sweepers and has a solid supportive movepool to boot. Particular hangups include its Electric-type weakness and general passiveness. VR was somewhat mixed on this, with votes ranging from B to A-.

--> Higher: Charizard is certainly an interesting mon currently. It's emerging as a solid and strong option to many balance and bulkier teams, with its bulk and decent speed tier being great perks as well. Does it deserve to be raised further? Or does it warrant a drop?

 

[Rabia]

(just so everyone is aware, we plan on reopening the VR on July 8th; we just wanted to give the metagame some time to settle so people could make more informed posts)

 

[Rabia]

A day late oops, but I'm unlocking this now so people can discuss potential changes in lieu of the tier shift

 

[Mariannabelle]

-> higher, actually
In particular, I think that unchoiced sets are actually cash money these days. Basically, just threaten stuff with your great STABs. The switch-ins, for the most part, are easy to whack with coverage, including Focus Blast for some newer stuff like Togedemaru. SpD sponges hold it back less than anticipated in my experience, because the partners you can volt to are pretty obvious goodmons. Fairly simple to Volt into something like Bronzong if the sylveon or diancie shows up, volting to Xatu on the enemy Bronzong is pretty trivial, and so on and so forth. There was basically one mon in the tier capable of blocking volt and threatening to outspeed and KO lisk, and that was Scarf Flygone. imo, Differentiates itself from Rotom-Mow by not being weak to Ice moves on Water attackers like Blastoise, which needs niche coverage instead of Sub or Ice Beam or Dark Pulse.

A or A+ or something
Specs Boomburst is, in practice, often landing 3HKOs on resistances like AV Copperjah and even Bronzong / Diancie depending on the spreads they run and the hazards placed in advance. Sometimes, the coverage moves in Overheat or Hydro Pump or Shadow Ball don’t even feel necessary. (Still nice to know you really put the hurt on the Boomburst switch-ins with a coverage move.) Can opt to run Soundproof to better protect your own Steels from stuff like opposing Exploud and specs sylveon, which is kinda huge imo.

S-
kinda the same logic as lisk, but this thing also does stuff with defog, wisp, and nasty plot.

maybe S?
I feel like Bronzong is capable of ultimately muscling through basically whatever it wants, just not at the same time. Two excellent abilities that let it nullify swathes of would-be checks. attacking moves that get the job done despite the low offensive stats, and strats like TrickOrb and Ironpress that turn it into a wincon in most matchups from what I can tell. a lot less passive than people give it credit for.
A
due to the nature of shell smash, it’s very obvious when you lose to blastoise, as opposed to losing to some other pokemon. still, limited opportunities to set up, and can be hard checked or situationally checked by plenty of mons. fine where it is, imo.