Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[turtledoggo1]

peak

So just peaked ladder so I guess that means VR noms lol.

--> B-

Ok, hot take but araquanid is actually like kinda good, let me explain. The meta is currently filled with vaporeon, blastoise, and generally water weak Pokemon such as muds, diancie and more. Araquanid can be very potent in these matchups as it can safely switch into Vaporeon, which is one of the most common Pokemon in the meta. As long as vaporeon doesn't have toxic, araquanid literally sits on Vaporeon, leaving the opposing side choosing who to sack to liquidation. (It usually deals very heavy damage to everything). Even without vapes on the opposing side, araquanid has a solid defensive typing allowing it to check glastrier, salazzle and blastoise. While also being naturally faster than sylveon, diancie and mantine. It spreads toxic, and can be really annoying for teams without a toxicroak or vileplume. Even something like helioisk gets killed in two hits by leech life.

Of course, araquanid is not without it's flaws. You don't have too reliable of recovery, meaning that you can get chipped down with repeated u-turns and toxic, among other chip damage. You are still slower than pretty much all of the 'good' wallbreakers, meaning once you claim a kill you'll have to sack a mon as well. Toxicroak usage rising also doesn't help.

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that yes, araquanid isn't the best mon around. However, it is better than people think it is as, and can really mess up unprepared teams. I think a small rise is appropriate for it. To further get across my point, I'll provide some replays from some "high" ladder replays.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1335508421

This replay vs Kink shows off how potent araquanid can be. As you can see, araquanid is able to get in on an unsuspecting Vaporeon and claim a life. They attempted to go sirfetch'd on the leech life but unfortunately they predicted wrong and almost got OHKO'd.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1335676889

The same scenario played out here, except instead of a sirfetch'd being destroyed it was a ninjask.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1335575471-cm4lfqm63bdcq8uubqapf0r1bipkgk8pw

Another replay of a sirfetch'd dying if anyone wants to see lol.

switch places

In my opinion flygon should swap places with salazzle. I get that salazzle has a lot of utility, between knock off, poison and being a really scary sweeper. However, I don't think its as splashable or as consistent as something like flygon. Flygon is just so good right now. Volt immune? Ground immune? A bulky defogger who can check ttrum, drapion and more? It's a great offensive pivot as well, like between band and scarf sets it really does it all. Imo flygon is so splashable and easy to fit on a team that it should rise to S-. While salazzle is so frail, not as splashable and has to deal with vape and flygon everywhere.

--> stay B+

Honesltly i think B+ is a good place for it to be. The main sets that have been popping up are scarf, which can still be protect scouted and beaten by Vaporeon (which is quite said honeslty. You beat blastoise but I don't think it justifies moving up a subrank. Sure, it threaten grounds with coverage and what not, but the issue is that oftentimes it can be so predictable/ easy to take advantage of that it's just not something that I'd consider A- worthy.

--> B

I'm still not completely sure if I believe virizion deserves to rise up, but I think it deserves a mention as a Pokemon that has a lot of potential. First off, Virizion is a Pokemon that has a very good spdef stat, allowing it to beat a +2 blastoise, and tank a surprising amount of special hits. Even most super effective special hits can sort of bounce off of it. It sits on Vaporeon (with lum berry) and can even customize its set to beat common 'checks such as sylveon and talonflame.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1335879764-3c92eq13krzul95yxdoqjjpsr6s2uwupw

This replay highlights virizons breaking ability, overwhelming the opponent very early on. They even had a sylveon, which albeit wasn't played very well, but the point still stands lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1335659916-vijq8ak8i5nmlscfx0qwb629cxi5c6rpw

This replay highlights how effectively virizion can take repeated volt switches and still stay healthy enough to sweep late-game.

--> ?

Focus energy + agility/substitute can snowball so fast, especially under screens. Not sure if this deserves a rise, but just wanted to spark some discussion about it because it can be so devastating sometimes. I'm not sure if it deserves to rise due to its problems regarding inconsistently and not really being splashable. So just wanted to throw this out there incase anyone wants to talk about it cause its been recieving more usage recently.



Pls don't ban me for this since I don't have any replays but its so disrespectful to unrank this. Same as it always was, good breaker that can be really potent between knock+coverage and broken fire lash.

 

[Catalisador]

This is, actually, not impressive at all!
​

Hi, everybody! Your favourite (and maybe only!) Torracat activist Catalisador is back with some hot takes! After making it to the top 500s of the NU ladder again, this time on my dududub alt, I decided to share some thoughts on the current SS NU metagame. Prepare for the spice !

A+ -> S tier​

I think it can't be understated how versatile and consistent Flygon has been throughout the various metagames we've had. Currently, I believe it is extremely potent, holding the number 1 usage spot and providing excellent role-compression and ability to fit practically any team with its wide-range of movesets: defensive, Choice Band, DD, Choice Scarf, Life Orb mixed, Choice Specs.

Here is a recent, high-level gameplay replay showcasing Choice Specs Flygon, the most unusual of our Flygon sets, putting in excellent work against NU extraordinaire Togkey, claiming half of their team with potent STAB and coverage moves.

A+ -> S- tier​

I, personally, absolutely disagree with the notion that Talonflame should drop a few ranks on the VR. If anything, it should see a rise. Talonflame's sheer splashability and utility thanks to its fantastic defensive typing, Speed tier and utility movepool makes it one of the tier's most useful glue pokémon. With sets ranging from Defog, Toxic + Taunt, dual status, SD and 3 Atks, Talonflame is absolutely a top-tier threat.

Here is another high-ladder replay showcasing the potential of Taunt + Toxic Talonflame, against Trick Room! #whydidwekeepthehorseagain?

UR -> C tier​

Lastly, here's a little nomination! Swoobat can be extremely potent on Terrain-type strategies when you position it right. Getting chip on Dark- and Steel-types and getting rid of potential Speed control pokémon (which this tier kinda lacks at the moment if we're being totally honest...) makes Swoobat a potent late-game sweeping machine. It is by no means a top-tier threat but is absolutely fun and can catch unprepared opponents off-guard! Check out this replay against Segetarius to see a fun little Swoobat sweep hihi !


Other little discussion points I'd like to briefly go over are:

S- -> S tier​

Absolutely a dominant force in the metagame, I believe Rotom-Mow is worthy of the S rank position due to sheer splashability, versatility and due to how amazing that Grass/Electric combo is.

Stay S tier​

I had been preaching about a Copperajah drop before, but now I've opened my mind to the Copperajah illumination and yeah, it is an absolutely well-rounded, fantastic, S-tier-worthy pokémon.

UR mons​

Don't be afraid to think outside the box and use less-popular pokémon/UR pokémon. NUPL has been showing us that those little critters can put in massive work (look at Druddigon's sky-high usage and win-rate!) !


That's all, folks! :D


Edit: added proof of peak and some details .

 

[Pokeslice]

A+ --> S

I think that Flygon has definitely earned a spot in S tier with Copper. It's splashable, has a slew of different sets, and puts in work game in, game out. It's even adaptable, with more defensive sets popping up recently instead of the mostly Scarf or DD variants we saw a month or two ago. Just a fantastic mon that I'll hate to see go in two months ;__;

A --> S-

Stop with the Vaporeon hate!! I don't understand it. Looking through the VR, only one thing stands out as totally out of place, that being Vaporeon in A. Vap has cemented itself as the most centralizing glue mon in the meta, holding together almost every balance or bulkier team while simultaneously walling more than half the metagame, even Pokemon that should beat it, such as Mowtom. Yes it can be abusable, but not necessarily by much, and even then, current meta trends show just how potent it is with Pokemon like Croak skyrocketing in usage. It's clearly better and more splashable than all of A, A+, and S- imo and I think the VR council hate on this mon has to stop. A? That's a little crazy ngl.

/ S- --> A+

I was a little bit surprised by these two moving up, especially when compared to other mons that didn't get the higher ranking instead (Flygon and Vaporeon primarily)

I'm a hugee fan of Salazzle and I think it's suspect worthy, but it isn't S-. Frankly, it just doesn't have the splashability that a lot of A+ has and even though it can threaten or break down so many basic balance cores, especially with SubTox, it doesn't separate itself from the subrank right below it. This ranking would be less about how good Lazzle is, and more about how good A+ is, if that makes sense.

Hot take: Mowtom is overrated. It isn't as splashable as S- makes it seem, Scarf sets are easily predictable or scoutable, and Defog/Utility sets don't KO what you need and are honestly not great overall. Mowtom is cool, but after losing with it to a Vaporeon one too many times or finding myself constantly Protect scouted, idk it doesn't feel like an S- mon. I'd argue as low as A, but I know that won't fly. It just doesn't do what everyone says it should do, and it definitely isn't better/as splashable as most of A+. It's just a lot better on paper than in practice.

B+ --> Higher

I find myself using Muds more and more as a rocker and nice physical blanket, and when paired with Vaporeon, it always puts in work. I feel like this can rise to A- or even A tbh, but I wouldn't be opposed to either.

UR --> B-

Watching NUPL games has made me so happy to see this. It's been used 2 or 3 times so far and has always put in work with offensive LO sets, although I still feel like defensive SR+Glare sets are fantastic and worth exploring, especially since they punish Xatu so handedly, or using Helmet+Rough Skin to 1v1 Copper among other things. Go watch those replays, they're fun and this guy deserves to be ranked again.

A+ -> lower
Talonflame's high Speed and support in Defog is great on paper but I feel like this suffers entirely too much from its Fire / Flying typing to be sitting at A+. Knock Off is such a spammable move on pretty much anything with access to it. This includes Fighting-types like Sirfetch'd, Machamp, and Passimian. I feel like on certain builds, this mons shines but it's just extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock. Fighting-types like Passimian and Virizion and other common Pokemon like Copperajah has access to Rock coverage and it's pretty much a 50 / 50 risking being OHKOed by a predict attempting to switch this bird in.

I agree with Roxiee here. I think Talon is another mon that, like Mowtom, has the tools to put in work, but doesn't a lot of the time. I don't think there's anything else to add here except I don't know if it should be lowered. Talon is still great and often puts in work, but it isn't an S- or S tier mon like some people are nomming it for, although I don't think it's an A tier mon with horrible Pokemon like Vaporeon ;)

 

[Pokeslice]

oops dirty double post, but I forgot another big nom

B --> A-

This mon has a fantastic typing for the meta, especially with the rise in Decid and Dhelm again, effectively perfect coverage in CC+BB that take care of majority of the meta, and a plethora of great sets, such as Sub BU, Defog 2 Attack, Roost 3 Attacks, and even Scarf, that are all effective. Oh, and it has a great speed tier that lets it outspeed things like Fetch'd, TTrum, or even Adamant Croak if you want.

That alone should move it up, but I want to focus more on SpDef Sub BU sets, which in the right conditions, absolutely destroys teams, often 6-0ing bulkier ones as it rips through a ton of defensive cores. I don't know why we seemed to forget this set existed, but it's still amazing and destructive. This mon is just as good as the A- mons atm and it should move up.

 

[turtledoggo1]

Thwackey is an underrated presence in the metagame and should be rated. Before you click away, here me out because I really do think Thwackey has some potential. I propose Thwackey should rise to C for a few reasons.



Thwackey stat-wise isn't the best when you first look at it. Mediocre stats and defensive stats mean you are pretty weak. However, the set I will be highlighting today is the Choice Band set. As I believe it to be its best and most consistent set.

set

Thwackey @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off

With a Choice Band, Thwackey is able to serve as a decent revenge killer against many faster Pokemon thanks to its priority in Grassy Glide. With Grassy Glide, it's able to revenge pretty much everything that is neutral against Grass-type, as long as they are slightly weakened. Notable examples being Flygon, Tyrantrum, Sirfetch'd, Aerodactyl and more. It's not hard to weaken Pokemon like these, as it's quite easy to chip them down through hazards and Rocky Helmet. Furthermore, there's many Pokemon who just drop to a banded Grassy Glide, notable instances being Helioisk, Espeon, and water types such as Blastoise, Inteleon and Starmie. A good instance being here, where Thwackey pressured his team heavily with its strong moves. Sometimes, you don't even need to use Grassy Glide as you are able to outspeed and OHKO targets with Wood Hammer. Notably Exploud, Machamp and in general, Grass-weak Pokemon.

calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Machamp in Grassy Terrain: 376-444 (117.1 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Exploud in Grassy Terrain: 457-538 (130.9 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heliolisk in Grassy Terrain: 309-364 (116.6 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon in Grassy Terrain: 277-327 (102.2 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon in Grassy Terrain: 220-261 (73 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl in Grassy Terrain: 261-307 (86.7 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum in Grassy Terrain: 159-187 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

(the calcs don't include water types because it's pretty obvious they drop)

Thwackey also recieves Knock-Off, meaning common grass resists such as Talonflame can get severely crippled for the rest of the match. This replay here showcases how Thwackey can utilize Knock-Off to pose a major threat to Bronzong and Talonflame. While I did not end up winning this match, I still felt like it showcased how Thwackey can utilize its other moves to weaken common 'counters'. Knock is also great for punishing Pokemon like Decidueye or Goodra who sometimes switch in, and usually take massive damage from it. Thwackey also recieves U-Turn in its arsenal, allowing it to gain momentum on common switch-ins such as Bronzong or Arcanine. This replay here shows how deadly U-turn was on his switch-in, which was Rotom-C. This replay also shows how important U-Turn is for momentum. (don't mind the misplays lol)

Thwackey also provides great team support by providing Grassy-Terrain, benefitting offensive monsters and tanks, such as Drapion and Steel-types. Many common ground types as a result cannot get their desired OHKO's, thanks to Grassy Terrain. In this replay, Drapion was able to survive an Earthquake from Golurk, allowing it to sweep lategame. Meanwhile in this game, you can see how little Flygon's EQ does to Qwilfish, almost 0. Grassy terrain provides a lot of passive healing as well, which can be a good bonus. Not only that, but there's also the fringe Grassy Terrain offence teams. They are bad, but still see some use. Basically I'm trying to say that Grassy Terrain can acomplish a lot.

I also reached 1590 with a banded Thwackey team if anyone wants to try out

https://pokepast.es/e68abd8c646fbac1

In all, Thwackey has a lot of potential and useful qualities in the metagame. It has strong moves, little, but useful coverage, and provides teams with great utility in Grassy Terrain. Thanks for reading!

btw this is just a nom to C it can't be that hard to rank :(

 

[Realistic Waters]

B- ---> C

So apparently defensive defog is a set. I can't think of a single reason why I would want this as my hazard control. I thought it would have more merits with offensive sets for flygon, blastoise and starmie after you can take out the obvious checks/counters. But the list is long and comfey is an average performer at best...

C+ ---> Unrank

Long neck meme. Not really sure why this was ranked for a mediocre niche of LO Synthesis. This tier is riddled with pivots, strong cores and faster wallbreakers so Eggy has no place to shine. A major drawback with the mentioned set earlier is that Eggy would be the only Dragon type not capable of pressuring Sylveon or heatproof Bronzong and these two mons are consistently used in the metagame. You'll 4/3hko them at best or be forced out. Guzzlord, Dragalge, Kingdra and heck even Goodra can at least pressure Sylveon.

Combined usage for NU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Flygon | 29.486% |
| 2 | Copperajah | 21.988% |
| 3 | Vaporeon | 21.179% |
| 4 | Sylveon | 20.843% |
| 5 | Bronzong | 20.397% |

Its utility is next to nothing outside of switching in on Mudsdale, Leaf Storm Rotom and Vaporeon but its counterparts can offer so much more with better defensive and offensive typing.. For example dragalge, Guzzlord and Goodra can all tank +2 Ice beam with minimal investment from Blastoise and pressure back while Eggy is forced out alongside all the other water types with coverage which can potentially be a huge deal breaker. This mon would be last choice as a dragon type even after Druddigon and Duraludon lol and would much prefer to use something like Celebi as a grass special attacker as it switches in on the same things, breaks balance with NP and has natural cure for toxic shenanigans.


C --> UR

This mon is low-key trash. It doesn't help that NU has a billion steel resists so SD sets are pretty darn shabby just like its coverage. Then there's defog...? The only rocker it can beats 1 v 1 is Diancie which it can't even switch into... so there's that.

C ---> UR

I don't know why anyone would want to use vikavolt. It's like Mantine + Rotom Mow combined but.... in a bad way lol. Not much going for it defensively and webs aren't very effective. I wish it could beat things like Sirfetch’d and Machamp... but it won't. Outclassed offensively by Heliolisk and Rotom-Mow. Agility is outspeed by any choice scarf too. Thunderbolt won't even 2hko Copperajah.

C+ ---> UR

Between hitting a decent speed benchmark and sucker punch Absol is ... workable. I could imagine that LO is better than CB tho but honestly, there's no saving this mon. It's a glass cannon forced out half the time if it can't OHKO its target. It unfortunately has no utility and iron tail isn't reliable enough for Sylveon/Diancie. Sneasel might even be better than this lol and that's unranked... flygon won't like ice shard :v

C ---> UR

They can leave collectively as a group. There aren't many times where I've seen SD Sceptile do anything significant even with super effective hits...
Raichu is a lil better but I'm quite happy to see Guzzlord/celebi have more usage which also halts any chance of raichu sweeping. Stalling out terrain is decent enough too.


A+ ---> S-/S

I don't know but playing on the ladder it seems most players have switched to more defensively teams which makes Sirfetch’d even more viable. This mon is lowkey problematic. Mantine is ok but falls after knock off and struggles with leek just like its other checks since there aren't really any counters.... Weezing/Garb take around 35% from CB CC so they only check once... First Impression is also super useful to pressure things like starmie/rotom/celebi and goes a little further than most slower wallbreakers vs offense in matchups. To be honest, I would like to see a suspect test please!!!

A --- S-/S

ngl I would like a susepct test on this too. It's fairly difficult to OHKO so you better hope torrent isn't activated otherwise Copper loses to Surf at +2. I did mention a few things above that can chew a +2 hits but I'm just giving examples of how mons can be beneficial in a tight situation but in reality it's not hard to chip some of its checks. Being forced to use Vaporeon shows how problematic this mon is D:

also yache berry Rotom-C is cursed because it always misses the leaf storm

 

[Punchshroom]

Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Pulse / Water Pulse

This thing is actually kinda underrated as a holepuncher; it's basically a wallbreaker with Dark + Fighting 'STAB' that can scare out things like Copperajah, Bronzong, Guzzlord, Dhelmise, Glastrier, etc., while having the coverage to put pressure on anything that wants to switch into its 'STABs'. Sludge Bomb covers Sylveon and its poison chance can pressure bulky Waters like Vaporeon & Mantine if paired alongside Dark Pulse flinches. I actually consider Dragon Pulse to be superior to Ice Beam since Ice Beam doesn't really cover much that Dragon Pulse & the other moves do not already, plus Dragon Pulse actually can score OHKOes on things like Goodra and especially Dragalge (as well as Toxicroak lol) while offering a solid middle ground option against pivoting due to its wide neutral coverage; it also helps to pressure the poisoned bulky Water-types even harder. Water Pulse on the other hand lets Clawitzer target mons like Diancie and Mudsdale for OHKOes.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 156 HP / 252 SpD Copperajah: 406-478 (95.7 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Glastrier: 374-442 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 358-422 (105.9 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Vaporeon: 182-215 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and poison damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 152-179 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 161-190 (43 - 50.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after poison damage

In short, Clawitzer shares a similar niche to Golurk and Machamp in that it's a wallbreaker where all of its attacks are devastatingly strong and annoying to switch into. While it doesn't have Golurk's list of useful resistances/immunities or Machamp's status immunity to switch better into battle, Clawitzer is usually less susceptible to heavy retaliation when wallbreaking since it doesn't have a ton of weaknesses like Golurk or chip itself like Machamp does. That said, if I were to nominate this I'd nom it to C/C+ as a preliminary ranking since it does still have speed issues, but I don't have the time to gather many high quality replays so I'd rather just put it on the map for now.

 

[Stories]

Thievul to C / C+ did some testing with this little guy and claimed some big names and some ladder points, so here we go.

Behold the only Pursuit-trapper in the game:

Thievul @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Burning Jealousy
- Hyper Beam
- U-turn

This thing is capable of 2HKO'ing Vaporeon on switchin after a Protect, in fact nothing takes less than half on switchin including Guzzlord and Diancie, the best dark resists in the tier. This is especially nice with the current upwards trend in Xatu and weak special attacking tanks like Vaporeon and Celebi who can struggle to OHKO Thievul despite its middling bulk.

Stakeout Calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Vaporeon: 306-361 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 92 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 262-310 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 394-465 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mudsdale: 375-442 (92.8 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sirfetch’d: 192-226 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
dude this damage is on par w TTrum vs resists

 

[Realistic Waters]

Thievul to C / C+ did some testing with this little guy and claimed some big names and some ladder points, so here we go.


View attachment 341598
Behold the only Pursuit-trapper in the game:

Thievul @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Burning Jealousy
- Hyper Beam
- U-turn

This thing is capable of 2HKO'ing Vaporeon on switchin after a Protect, in fact nothing takes less than half on switchin including Guzzlord and Diancie, the best dark resists in the tier. This is especially nice with the current upwards trend in Xatu and weak special attacking tanks like Vaporeon and Celebi who can struggle to OHKO Thievul despite its middling bulk.

Stakeout Calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Vaporeon: 306-361 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 92 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 262-310 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 394-465 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mudsdale: 375-442 (92.8 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Stakeout Thievul Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sirfetch’d: 192-226 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
dude this damage is on par w TTrum vs resists

Sorry, I just think Thievul's pretty outclassed and isn't worth in almost all situations. The only thing I can agree with is that it can force out Celebi since it's not strong enough to OHKO without a boost. Dark types with poor bulk and average speed were never that good but Zororark doesn't rely on mons being forced out as it pressures everything in those calcs bar diancie with the LO NP thanks to superior coverage, raw power and the useful speed jump. Sludge Bomb means that you're not dead weight on Sylveon and Celebi won't get the chance to attack since you're faster.
(tbh, I'm not a Zororark advocate, that mon is pretty awful itself and can probably drop down a few ranks)

Lets look at another dark type currently unranked.

Shiftry @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Extrasensory

It seems that Shiftry also does the same role as a special dark wallbreaker but considerably better, this too can stay unranked unfortunately. It beats all the targets you listed; most importantly ohko's Diancie, Mudsdale and Vaporeon. The icing on the cake is Focus Blast for Guzzlord without relying on a situational hyper beam. I think it's quite common for Guzzlord to have some form of sp def investment so Thievul won't do over 50% with Dark Pulse anyway.

 

[Rabia]

some loose 2am thoughts

should rise. Swords Dance and four attacks sets are ridiculously potent wallbreakers that capitalize quite well on Glastrier's great coverage. Its Speed is really depressing and, alongside the bad defensive typing, offsets Glastrier's great bulk somewhat, but it's still enough to outpace a good few defensive foes if you go full investment.

should 100% be in S- next update. Next to Copperajah, it is literally the best option in the tier. Defensive and Choice Scarf sets are just so easy to put on your standard balance squads and offer a lot of role compression.

and should rise. I think even with the Light Clay ban they've shown to be fine alternatives to Blastoise on offense teams. Yeah Omastar struggles some in Vaporeon matchups, but at the end of the day those sequences aren't the most unfavorable ever and can end up with you accruing a lot of progress if you outplay your opponent at every turn :)

and should switch places. The former is a lot more fringe viable in comparison. That's really all I have to say here :x

should drop. It's a good Pokemon still but sees very little meaningful usage and struggles with a plethora of the top-tier options at the moment.

should be unranked. I firmly believe dual screens is still a great archetype but that Xatu is the definitive best option now with the ban of Light Clay.

 

[roxie]

Flygon A+ -> S-/S

Flygon's ability to pull off a multitude of sets such as utility with Rocky Helmet, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Substitute + Dragon Dance is really amazing for NU. Its insanely splashable on most NU teams because of its Ground / Dragon typing allowing it to be an amazing pivot to Rotom-C. Its movesets in First Impression allows it to revenge kill setup sweepers like Blastoise and even opposing Flygons. If you check out the NUPL statistics thread, you will see Flygon being the most used Pokemon in SS NU for 3 weeks and the 2nd most used Pokemon for Week 1 right behind Copperajah. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nupl-ix-replays-statistics.3683071/. The S rank in my eyes resembles something that is really really good and it should be on most teams and Flygon makes the perfect candidate.

Salazzle S- -> A+/A

Salazzle is held back by many common bulky Pokemon in the tier like Vaporeon, Guzzlord, and Dragalge. The NU metagame has a lot of fat + clerics running around on most teams, causing Toxic spam is be a tad bit less effective. Dragalge not only forces Salazzle out but it can simply click Flip Turn to break its Substitute or if it intends on switching out. Things like specially defensive RestTalk Guzzlord and Natural Cure utility Starmie aren't bothered by toxic much. It does have Dragon Pulse but screens literally just got nerfed and even at +2 it still fails to pick up guaranteed KOes on the likes of Guzzlord and Dragalge.

Rotom-Mow S- -> A+

Rotom-Mow is great but using it tends to lead me in situations where it's like a 50 / 50 like Flygon switching into a Volt Switch or something fat like specially defensive Guzzlord | AV Copperajah coming in on the Copperajah. Non-Choice Scarf sets are obviously slower than other revenge killers and it just gets U-turned on by Band Flygon. Utility Flygon can switch into Rotom-Mow's attack, Roost and/or gain momentum on their side by using U-turn.

Bronzong A+ -> S-

Bronzong is just amazing. Iron Defense sets have sparked with Glastrier in the tier and its abilities in Levitate and Heatproof are just the [REDACTED]. The community has been exploring stuff like Shadow Ball to target Xatus and opposing Bronzong and Skill Swap to take advantage of Xatu's Magic Bounce and Vaporeon's Water Absorb. I compliment its Psychic-typing a lot to survive an attack from a Fighting-type like Sirfetch'd and Machamp to retaliate with Psychic. Its defenses allow it to be a CHECK to Tyrantrum and overall, its a nice glue to a lot of teams right now.

Dhelmise B+ -> B-

A niche with Colbur Berry sets? Access to Earthquake lets it hit Drapion but it really has a hard time with stuff like Arcanine, Guzzlord, and Itemless Vileplume.

Vileplume B+ -> A

Speaking of Vileplume,

Vileplume really struggles nowadays. Its usage is a lot lower than where it was in the last 3-month usage period, and it just doesn't have a lot going for it anymore in terms of what it offers within the metagame. Does A- attribute too much worth to Vileplume? Or do its positives still carry enough weight in April of 2021?

Evaluating the NUPL usage stats again, you can see Vileplume moving from #28 -> #14 -> #10. This Pokemon still does the same thing it did before by punishing Fighting-types and providing useful utility with Aromatherapy and Leech Seed. Itemless sets are really great checks to our Ghost-types in Decidueye and Golurk but I think Rocky Helmet + Effect Spore is a really deadly combination. Confide recently used a Growth Vileplume set with Strength Sap and it actually helps Vileplume beats Waters. Its bulk allows it to survive an attack from the likes of Talonflame and Arcanine and recover with SS. Xatu is probably the #1 Pokemon that stops this thing but even then, Xatu doesn't like its Sludge Bomb Poison. Xatu being killed means a Fighting-type teammate like Passimian and Sirfetch'd has a more fun time.

NUPL:
Garay Oak: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-558905 Aromatherapy
Confide: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-559574 Growth

Xatu B+ -> A+

Very high usage in NUPL. Its Psychic / Flying typing provides dual resistance against Fighting-types and it's a really nice entry-hazard bouncer. Rocky Helmet is really nice for residual damage, Teleport is great momentum, and Heat Wave targets Steel-types like Copperajah and Escavalier. Alternatively, Future Sight can be used with a Fighting-type to pressure Poison-types like Vileplume, Garbordor, and Weezing.

Sylveon.

Its pure Fairy-typing invites threats in like Copperajah and Salazzle. Yeah, its not meant to serve as a check/counter to these two specific Pokemon but Copperajah in particular can literally use its two-turn-Wish and not even use Heavy Slam on Sylveon to threaten it. It can use like Stone Edge to predict the Talonflame switching or even Power Whip for Mudsdale. Dragon-types like Guzzlord and Dragalge can predict the switch and hit it with Heavy Slam and Sludge Bomb, respectively. Heck, even Choice Band Flygon 2HKOes this mon. Leek Sirfetch'd can pull shenanigans with CC + Poison Jab and wear this mon down a lot. Vaporeon usage is also higher than Sylveon on usage stats, and you really don't pair two Wish passers on one team. I think if Flygon and Bronzong rises this can stay maybe but if not, I don't consider them on the same level..most def Blastoise level.

Weezing B (stay)

Unsure about Weezing dropping. Weezing's Levitate is really useful against Flygon, Glastrier's occasional High Horsepower, and Drapion's Earthquake whereas Garbodor just gets attacked by both. Corthius's RMT showcases a really good Weezing build https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/golden-fate-isolate.3684693/ and I feel like they belong on two different types of builds. Overall, its really nice role compression..please do not slap it down with Zoroark.

Garbodor B- -> B

Garbodor on the other hand trades its life with Sirfetch'd pretty much but it belongs on more hazard stack teams.

Alolan Exeggutor C+ -> UR

U-turn spammed on, faces competition with other dragons and very difficult to pilot.

Scrafty C+ -> B+

Scrafty does very good against non-Sylveon teams and it acts as a nice Scald absorber, Poltergeist check, and Knock Off switch in. Bulk Up is insane as it allows it to take on physical attackers like Sirfetch'd and Flygon

Rhydon UR -> C

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-nu-viability-ranking-thread.3676265/post-8840570

Druddigon UR -> C/C+

Puts in nice work with its coverage in Gunk Shot and Earthquake/Fire Punch + Life Orb. Pokeslice's post goes more into detail

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-559060
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-559298

Galarian Articuno C -> UR

Heavy competition with Xatu. Galarian Articuno is fast and on paper some people see it as like bait with U-turn, similar to a role Comfey plays. I feel like that's a huge negative actually since when it actually uses U-turn vs something like Copperajah, the Pokemon you switch in just takes damage. Assuming you are pairing this with something like Arcanine or Talonflame they get Stone Edge'd and something like Mudsdale or Bronzong can he Power Whipped or Heat Crashed. Teleport is just way better IMO, unrank.

Espeon C -> UR

agreed

 

[Catalisador]

No time to explain! Quick thoughts on the metagame, gogogogo! #Torracat #Roselia

edit: please S rank Flygon before RU crucifies it...​

-> S

I believe these three are the perfect NU trifecta. Each provides extreme value for teams and unique niches not fulfilled by any other pokémon. Copperajah is an absolute defensive staple with extreme offensive value as well, with unparalleled coverage, bulk and utility.
Flygon is a splashable, easy to use pokémon with potential to provide extreme role compression (defogger, speed control, Ground immunity, Electric immunity, etc.) in a single slot. Its wide range of sets also makes it extremely unpredictable, going from Scarf, CB, DD, Defensive to even Specs and Mixed LO.
Rotom-Mow is the perfect pivot thanks to its ability to punish Volt Switch deterrents with STAB Leaf Storm. Furthermore, utility in Defog and Trick and a boosting move in Nasty Plot makes it extremely versatile and hard to deal with.

Here's a replay showcasing Scarf Flygon's ability to quite literally sole teams with a marvelous comeback. It also showcases other special threats such as Bronzong and Quiver Dance Ribombee: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1347834958

-> S-

I agree with the sentiment that Bronzong should see a rise. Thanks to amazing defensive utility and movepool, two great abilities in Heatproof and Levitate to severely improve its matchup against its own weaknesses and the ability to check a vast portion of the metagame, Bronzong has definitely solidified itself as one of the best defensive pokémon in the SS NU metagame.

-> A/A+
Drapion is extremely solid right now. Toxic Spikes devour offenses and help get chip on bulkier teams. Moreover, its access to Knock Off punish common switch-ins such as Flygon and its premier Poison/Dark defensive typing makes it a fine check to numerous NU staples such as Starmie, Dhelmise and Decidueye, Bronzong and Celebi lacking Earth Power.

Tournament finals replay vs. Xerche showcasing Drapion's defensive value and sheer utility thanks to access to Knock Off and Toxic Spikes: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1343711760

C/C+

Druddigon provides extreme defensive and offensive utility and is one of our best Rotom-Mow checks. Furthermore, it has gotten quite a decent amount of usage in NUPL, so I think a placement on the C or C+ tier is justifiable enough.

-> stay S-

I think Salazzle is potent enough to justify an S- positioning. It isn't extremely easy to splash on teams but it can be very annoying and devastating on the right hands and builds so, for now, I think it should stay as is, personally.

-> unranked

No Light Clay means Espeon is now just a very mediocre Psychic-type (unless you're GW, then Reflect + CM 6 - 0es you). As for Articuno-Galar, I think it has potential to put in work but so do many other UR pokémon and being outclassed by the likes of Starmie and, frankly, even Indeedee-F isn't very good for the bird.

 

[Realistic Waters]

I agree with everything here other than Salazzle.

Salazzle S- -> A+/A

Salazzle is held back by many common bulky Pokemon in the tier like Vaporeon, Guzzlord, and Dragalge. The NU metagame has a lot of fat + clerics running around on most teams, causing Toxic spam is be a tad bit less effective. Dragalge not only forces Salazzle out but it can simply click Flip Turn to break its Substitute or if it intends on switching out. Things like specially defensive RestTalk Guzzlord and Natural Cure utility Starmie aren't bothered by toxic much. It does have Dragon Pulse but screens literally just got nerfed and even at +2 it still fails to pick up guaranteed KOes on the likes of Guzzlord and Dragalge.



agreed

Salazzle should stay in S- rank.

I think it's pretty common now to see Nasty Plot which goes further against bulkier teams over Knock Off / Toxic utility especially if you eventually want to get break past Vaporeon and Rest Guzzlord. Let's be honest too, it's pretty common to score the poison with sludge sealing that extra damage so I think its better in the long run.

+2 Dragon Pulse OHKO's max hp Dragalge after Stealth Rock 70% of the time and hits Guzzlord for the extra damage since these mons are so common now. Flygon has the most usage so hitting that is important too. That little bit of support shouldn't be too hard.
+2 252 SpA Salazzle Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 278-328 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

HDB are great but people really should give Focus Sash a go since sometimes getting a Nasty Plot can be difficult outside of forced switches because of its bulk, this way you actually beat Vaporeon on the switch at +2 with Sludge Bomb/Wave and Scarf Flygon, Talonflame Inteleon can't revenge.

Basically I'm just saying that Salazzle can adapt to the current metagame changes comfortably and this hasn't affected its viability. It just needs to switch things up and needs a little bit of support.

 

[Expulso]

flygon to S or S-, 100% agree. it can do a ton and does it very well, im not gonna elaborate too much because people above have said it well and anyone who has played NU knows how flexible and good flygod is.

i think A+ is definitely more appropriate for salazzle than S-, yes sash is good but u straight-up require support to keep it intact; np is strong too but, again, u are forced to rely on team support to weaken vaporeon [which is everywhere]. fitting good checks to it can be difficult, and it can be good with the proper support, but it doesn't have the same splashability as flygon or copper so a+ is where it belongs.

disagree with Raba / roxiee a bit; when you say 'struggles with a plethora of the top-tier options at the moment', you mean.... exclusively drapion and guzzlord? those mons (one of which never runs recovery) are the only two switch-ins to its dual STAB combo, which hits very hard off of a great attack stat. it's also walled by itemless plume but polter-proofing has gone down p hard over the past month or 2 in my experience. i'd keep it in b+, def wouldnt go lower than B if a drop were considered though. some teams are genuinely forced to just pick every time against it and I feel that is being understated in this discussion

Strongly disagree on bronzong -> s-; doesnt have that much offensive presence, idef sets are honestly quite easy to answer and almost never do better than trading one-for-one if that... I don't see any strong enough positives to raise it past a+ and im a bit surprised it is even in a+ to begin with.

agree with roxiee on , both p solid mons that I can see catching on more in the near future

also agree on xatu rising but A or A- is more appropriate than B+ to me, theres a number of games where the opponent doesn't have one of the mons it is needed to check (such as mudsdale) so it just kinda sits there without finding many chances to come in. when it roosts it's also p exploitable by the tier's excellent dark-types and rotom-mow. i'd probably favor putting it in A- but A is fine too.

also agree that sylv is a bit out of favor, a lot of teams can end up naturally walled by it or struggling to switch into fairy moves so it has a significant influence in the builder, but in practice i often feel like it's more of an A rank than an A+ rank.

agree with Catalisador on Drapion rising to A or A+, it's for sure a premier threat in this metagame -- great speed tier, knock makes so much progress, has a surprising amount of versatility between standard sd / knock / pjab / eq, techs like ice fang / shuca berry for flygon, utility moves like taunt / tspikes, i even got bopped by scarf once on ladder. versatility aside the standard drapion set alone is great due to the state of dark resists in this tier (poor). A or A+ for sure, indifferent on which one


finally, time to make my own nominations:

diancie: a -> a+. diamond storm + body press gives it a shocking amount of offensive presence, and it can become genuinely difficult for a lot of teams to handle. special sets (i used CM for a bit) and skill swap (Togkey this tech is insanely epic in vapo meta, gr8 stuff) are also cool. it provides a lot of useful defensive qualities as well; Rocks and potentially Heal Bell are nice, and it gives teams a switch-in to both Talonflame and Dark-types, each of which have a fairly shallow pool of answers right now.

mantine: b -> b+ or a-. Mantine is able to solo a lot of bulky offense teams that depend on Grass-types for their Vaporeon counterplay; I pulled up to r5/6 nu open with Toxicroak and Dhelmise as my Vaporeon exploiters and mantine basically 6-0d me. it's a Pokemon that requires a good amount of thought in builder; I now actively check my teams to make sure I have enough ways to handle Mantine, something I can't say about most other B and B+ ranks. It has useful defensive properties as well, providing a fighting resist (albeit a shaky one), removal, and a good check to Flygon / Talonflame. The set of Scald / Hurricane or Air Slash / Toxic / Roost forces Vapo to take a Tox, which can require teams to go to something else, and often their Scald counterplay behind Vapo won't be great (and may struggle to take its Flying STAB). I think Mantine's def an underrated mon right now and deserves a rise.

 

[Mariannabelle]

: S- or S
Stop pretending like this Pokemon is more abusable than it is. The bar to switch into and actually punish Vaporeon is incredibly high- Pokemon like Heliolisk cannot switch into Wish and make any consistent progress, and would be checks like SD Decidueye cannot risk Scald. Meanwhile, Vaporeon forces an incredible number of switches due to Scald and Wishtect letting it 1v1 more things than not and sponge a lot more. Water resists with super effective coverage, like LO Starmie, end up just losing because of raw bulk preventing 2HKOs.

The fourth moveslot further compounds the issue, as entire categories of counterplay can be neutered; Roar prevents Substitute abuse from the likes of Subtox Guzzlord or Araquanid, and prevents Pokemon like Toxicroak or Celebi from freely setting up; Ice Beam lets Vaporeon casually defeat Dragalge and prevents many others like Vileplume from switching in; etc.

It's the sole Pokemon keeping otherwise unsustainable balance teams together, and it deserves a ranking that reflects that.

---
: A- or something
Just denying typical Mudsdale, Bronzong, etc. sets the ability to do anything is pretty solid as a niche, and deterring moves like Toxic from Salazzle is also worth mentioning. It has a very versatile movepool with options like Foul Play and Heat Wave to poke stuff like Decidueye and Escavalier, as well as Thunder Wave to not be smashtoise bait. Also a decent Sirfetch'd switchin, especially with Colbur. That being said, it's kinda frail and exploitable by breakers like Exploud so I don't think it needs to go any higher.

---
NOT S or S-
It's a mon whose viability, imo, is driven down Flygon's recent popularity. Choice sets also don't punish common Water types between Smashtoise ending you with Ice Beam and Vaporeon structures not being threatened by its STABs. Nasty Plot is probably the best set, Defog is a good move too. Imo A rank.

 

[Pokeslice]

A --> S

What else do I even need to say at this point? Mari covers it pretty perfectly. Despite what the anti "Vaporeon is S tier" propaganda out there will try and convince you, Vap has the potential to literally beat or abuse majority of its checks, barring Toxicroak, turning many into full on liabilities. Between the combo of WishTect and an interchangeable 4th slot depending on the team, it is often extremely difficult to actually break through, and with Scald, it isn't even super passive either, potentially crippling common switch ins. On top of that, there is no mon as slottable as Vap, holding together entire teams with its fantastic team support and typing and some teams are even 6-0ed by it. Vap is the best Pokemon in the tier, and definitely not A rank.

A+ --> S-

I have to echo Roxiee and Rabia here, this mon is really really good. Between multiple sets, utility, compression, and a fantastic typing, Flygon just fits onto most teams in some way, shape, or form, similarly to Copper. Its high usage in both NUPL and on the ladder is a testament to just how slottable it is, and it deserves the rise.

S- --> A+/A

I always found this mon severely overrated. It has a great dual typing, but it often forces awkward 50/50's, especially bad scarf sets, and has weird 4mss with the utility you want. It honestly isn't great as a Defogger or Scarfer, can't reliably break Vaporeon without Nasty Plot, and a lot forces it out or revenge kills it. It just feels a lot better on paper than in practice.

A- --> A

I'll admit it daniYSB, you were right. Drapiass is Drapiok. I decided to actually give it a try and between its utility options in Knock+T Spikes, a really good dual typing, and the fire Shuca Ice Fang set to KO Flygon, there's a lot that Drap can do. Really a good and fun mon that teams will often struggle with, especially as the tier trends towards Xatu and Zong.

B+ --> A-/A

Honestly, I don't really know why we ever stopped using this demon. It's still just as potent and annoying as ever, and with Growth sets seeing a ton more usage now, it's also capable of breaking through and beating unsuspecting teams. Easily deserves a higher rank.

A+ --> A-

I think Roxiee's post covers all the reasons perfectly why it should drop. Outclassed by broken Vap as a Cleric and deceptively frail on the physical side, it always feels worse than it looks on paper. It also invites in tier titan Copper and doesn't even Wish into any proper switch ins since it has the coverage to pop everything that would like Talon or a weakened Muds (both which pair better with, you guessed it, Vaporeon). Specs is super cool and good though or else I would drop it lower.

A- --> A/A+

Like lowkey broken and we probably should have banned it. The only problem is that low speed stat, but it doesn't even feel like it holds it back at times. Like Rabia said, definitely worthy of a rise.

A- --> B

Talk about an overhyped mon. A wallbreaker that can't break common defensive cores seems really really lame, and TTrum is just that. Between any Vap+Muds/Flygon or Vap+Copper/Zong this mon will literally do nothing, and of course, this doesn't mention the plethora of other options that easily revenge kill Tyrantrum, Protect scout it, or just never let it in because every Pokemon in the tier has a move that scares it in some way, shape, or form. On top of that, you have that terrible Head Smash accuracy coupled with only 8 PP, making any possible progress with this mon a pain. It's even awkward to build with, not really meshing well with any pivots bar Xatu because of its weird, albeit solid offensive, typing. The more I write, the more I believe it should drop even more, but DD Scale Shot sets on Screens are actually really really really good, despite the horrible job done by CB and random Scarf variants. If only DD had opportunities to set up and sweep without Screens, but sadly it rarely has a position where it can pull this off. Just a sad, overrated mon.

B+ --> A-

I've been recently playing around with Decid a bit more, and I think it's super cool and underrated. Specs and CB sets consistently claim KO's and SD variants are reliable options on screens. It also can bait in Dark-types like Guzz and Drap and U-Turn out into something to threaten them. Just a solid Pokemon in all aspects.

Oh also UR the two weird Psychic-types, they're both kind of terrible. Have fun in PU Cuno!

 

[Catalisador]

So, I'm on the top percentage of Rattata ladder players for the week's NULT grind (for now, at least awa). I've achieved that with the aid of this little team showcasing two very special pokémon I want to give a shoutout to.

click the sprites for importable


B- -> A-/A​

I'm proposing a bold rise to this little critter. I believe Inteleon is an extremely menancing and potent force in the metagame thanks to its sky-high Speed and Special Attack stats as well as access to U-Turn momentum, making it a solid pivot choice for offensively-inclined teams. Furthermore, its set versatility can't be understated: Choice Scarf allows it to act as a surprise check to opposing scarfers and setup sweepers and an overall great speed control option while Choice Specs boosts its breaking power to overwhelming levels. Other options in Heavy-Duty Boots or Mystic Water allow the lizard to switch up its moves and be more unpredictable and harder to deal with while its Criteleon set is still a menancing secondary win-condition for teams looking to spice things up from the traditional SS Blastoise and SubCritdra. Definitely worth exploring and worth a little rise on the VR!

UR -> C​

Magneton's offensive capabilities are extremely useful in the current SS NU metagame. Its Magnet Pull ability forces easy chip damage on common Steel-types for teammates to clean mit to late game. Moreover, its powerful STAB combination makes it hard to pivot around without getting huge damage across the opponent's team. The union of both these traits makes for a powerful option that aids the likes of Ninjask, Inteleon and other late-game sweepers and cleaners. Definitely worth a little ranking!

Here are a few replays showcasing the aforementioned pokémon, hope you guys give them a try!

Replay vs. fellow LT player Crow Music showcasing Inteleon's offensive strengths and revenge-killing potential: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1349131860

Replay vs. NUPL star OnArceus showcasing Magneton's ability to open holes on common defensive structures such as Vaporeon + Steel-type: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1349128076

Replay vs. NU top-player S1nn0hC0nfirm3d showcasing Magneton's ability to punish teams with its dual STAB combination as well as how Inteleon's key speed tier makes it a great late-game cleaner: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1349077131

Replay vs. daniYSB's extreme counterteam in which Inteleon is still able to pivot break through 4 of his pokémon (this one was a loss, tho, sorry guys :c): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1348587667

Longer replay showcasing Inteleon's breaking capabilities vs. fatter balances: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1348580172-3zk89vrog1abc6x7a9bexdpas5mwl1cpw

Edit: new replay vs another LT player showcasing Magneton's dominance and Inteleon's job as a late game cleaner: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1350070635

 

[Pokeslice]

B- -> A-/A

I gotta hard disagree with this one, sorry Cata. I tried making it work for a while, but in a meta where Vaporeon is the best Pokemon, it doesn't do anything. Specs sets can't break cores, neither can Critleon, and Scarf is too weak and abusable imo, although definitely its best set. Tbh, there's almost no reason to use this mon over any other water, especially with how potent Stoise/Kingdra are for sweeping and Starmie for reliably breaking, even Vap at times. Can it rise to B? Maybe, but it definitely is not A/A- material.

 

[Mr.Bossaru]

I guess ill go over the ones I don't exactly agree with-

its a A+ to me, gurrdurr ruins its life must I say more

im putting it in S- I HATE this thing in nu currently SD plus HB, it just destroys almost anything

im putting it in S- too, put specs on this thing and your opp doesn't have copper or drap, they are not gonna have a fun, specs slyv, can even be pretty good in uu, I use it uu myself

ill move him up to A, SD drap is pretty damn good, plus 2EQ from a adamant OKS Cooper at full, but hell, I see why it is where it is, things like pilo and Flygon are easy checks to it, but if you know how to use drap, he can be scary

 

[Charmflash]

A+ -> S
I am baffled by how Flygon is anywhere but at the top of this tier's viability rankings. His status as the premier Ground-type of the tier is undisputed as Golurk as well as Mudsdale are lacking in various areas, and are far less independent Pokemon. Besides, looking at the current viability rankings, Flygon is perhaps the best answer to the sole S tier ranked Pokemon Copperjah (also able to keep his rocks off), is the best bet to stop S- ranked Rotom-Mow's Volt Switch the tier has to offer besides Togedemaru, and fully resists Salazzle's STABs. These are by no means the only Pokemon Flygon matches well into, but I wanted to highlight them in particular because of their S-rank status.

S -> S-
I don't think this thing needs a huge introduction, its simply incredibly powerful, has good coverage, stealth rock, bulk, steel typing. The very sad part is that it's flagship set (or any other set besides CB) is completely unable to do anything meaningful to defensive Flygon, only damaging itself in the process of trying to achieve progress. With the rise of Talonflame, it is also forced to incorporate Rock Slide at times, meaning it wants to fit the 5 moves Heavy Slam / Power Whip / Heat Crash / Rock Slide / Earthquake in 3 slots (4 is rocks), leaving it extremely walled by the mons it didn't include a move for. You also have other, rising, safe no matter the coverage chosen switch-ins to it like Guzzlord or Drud. All of these trends leave a very sour taste in my mouth ranking Copperjah in the highest tier possible because they are quite noticeable flaws.

S- -> A+
Salazzle is a very dangerous offensive Pokemon, with great tools of supporting itself against it's "counters". It's typing allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes for the team and gives Salazzle some very needed resists since it's bulk is bottom of the barrel, but it faces tough competition from Talonflame and unranked?? Charizard, two mons fulfilling a similar role with access to more bulk and recovery, letting them better take on things such as Fighting-types. Running Salazzle sets you back a solid fighting check despite running a Poison-type, and it's usage of Toxic/Knock Off drains valuable turns which Salazzle doen't get many of (due to it's bulk). I think those factors combined should put it into the still very respectable A+ rank, rather than having it chill with Rotom-Mow (and Copperjah).

UR -> A- / B+
I initially only meant to comment on the S tiers since I feel most strongly about those, but in doing so I noticed that Charizard is unranked, which honestly should be a crime. This unit is able to bypass most fire-resists in the tier (think Dragons, Waters) with a powerful Flying-STAB in Hurricane. Paired with it's above-average bulk and fantastic speed there is not much preventing Charizard from wrecking Havoc. Since I am nominating a mon from unranked I'll include some replays.

Luthier vs. Charmflash NU Cup Round 7
In this game Luthier's Charizard outspeeds most of my team, and is able to hit my Fire-resists with Hurricane, acting as the main Pokemon putting this game on a timer for me. I am forced to play around sacks and checks rather than attempting to counter it, and it is doing a great job overall.

Adaam vs. Charmflash NU Cup Round 6
During the early game the power of Toxic Charizard is demonstrated beautifully as I am able to hit Adaam's Mantine with it, which allows me to pressure it with Hurricane. After the main defensive threat is dealt with Charizard is able to use it's great speed to simply clean up house pretty convincingly.

 

[Pokeslice]

B- -> B: i could not tell you why this is getting a rise

well now we know :)

B- --> A-

Celebi has finally found its niche as a fantastic Vaporeon switch in and threat in its own right, able to abuse and set up on that demon and other defensive mons (Muds, Zong's, etc), easily eating through cores. It also has a great movepool, and although not as explored as NP variants, Scarf, SR, and even SD all have potential. I think it's safe to say Celebi can finally move up

 

[Lucario]

Hi, this time I won't be nomming a shitmon for C.

B- -> B+

I've been using Ninjask a lot these past few weeks and it has been working quite well, better than I expected. Its potential to chip Copper, Diancie, and Zong amongst other walls without recovery is an amazing trait. Acrobatics does fantastic versus the current meta with not many Flying resists. With the likes of Decidueye, Sirfetch'd, and Starmie all being really common, Ninjask loves being able to check them. Protect to scout for choiced Pokemon as well as being able to gain a Speed Boost on Rotom-C to force it out so it doesn't take a lot from U-turn is also really valuable. Overall, this mon has not changed much since IoA and definitely deserves some mention of being a great Pokemon.

 

[turtledoggo1]

Uxie. Essentially budget Cresselia, except Cresselia is gone so it's just... Uxie. Many people already know about the utility sets. It gets rid of items, set rocks, sets up Future Sight, pivots out. It can even be a decent pick on HO. However, the reason I am discussing Uxie today is because of the Calm Mind set. I feel because of the reasons above (versatility) and because of its potency as a win-con, it deserves a rise to C+

Before I continue, I would just like to say that all (i think) credits go to Young Lilo, AKA Test Techles for getting me hooked on CM Uxie.

EDIT: Credits go to daniYSB for being the true mastermind behind this set

Uxie
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss

This is the Uxie set I've been using on high ladder recently. It aims to be a bulky win-con, able to prey on teams without Drapion or Escavalier. This set is able to set up on the likes of many Pokemon, which also includes the wish passers, Bronzong and just passive Pokemon in general. The speed is to outspeed modest Exploud, with the rest invested in Defence to better tank physical attacks. It benefits from the fact that Escavalier isn't as prominent as it was before, and the fact that Drapion is quite easy to chip/wall with the right mons. It's definitely a little cheesy but can sweep a lot of unprepared teams, which is honestly a large chunk of teams.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351489781-noefrirb3kjzef2e1965qms710o7ybtpw

In this replay, Uxie was able to survive for a long period of the game. Allowing it to outlast a check in Copperajah, which would otherwise give it trouble. Uxie was able to sweep at the end, setting up on Sylveon and surviving a First Impression from Sirfecth'd, despite being below 50% health. I think this replay also shows how it can serve other utility while being a bulky win-con, such as being a fighting-type check/switch in.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351582864

This replay shows off how Uxie can set-up on so much common NU faces. Things like Bronzong are basically set-up fodder for Uxie, making it very difficult to actually take down. Additionally, Uxie is able to sponge hits from fighter (in this case, Hitmonlee) and is able to utilize the speed creep to outspeed Exploud.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351264773-rdzdyrwp5mtzgbp7o3ti96ndhoxpz24pw

This replay is a bit of a longer one but showcases how Uxie can survive longer, more drawn out games. Once again, it is able to capatlize on the fact that Bronzong is the opponent's steel type of choice.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351562424

Even though Uxie while asleep is pretty passive/easy to exploit, it's still able to bypass Ninjask. Tanking multiple U-Turns in the process.

Essentially, this post is just a nomination for Uxie to rise to C+ as I believe between its versatility and CM sets, it serves as a decently viable pick in the NU meta.

 

[Lilo]

Uxie. Essentially budget Cresselia, except Cresselia is gone so it's just... Uxie. Many people already know about the utility sets. It gets rid of items, set rocks, sets up Future Sight, pivots out. It can even be a decent pick on HO. However, the reason I am discussing Uxie today is because of the Calm Mind set. I feel because of the reasons above (versatility) and because of its potency as a win-con, it deserves a rise to C+

Before I continue, I would just like to say that all (i think) credits go to Young Lilo, AKA Test Techles for getting me hooked on CM Uxie.

Uxie
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss

This is the Uxie set I've been using on high ladder recently. It aims to be a bulky win-con, able to prey on teams without Drapion or Escavalier. This set is able to set up on the likes of many Pokemon, which also includes the wish passers, Bronzong and just passive Pokemon in general. The speed is to outspeed modest Exploud, with the rest invested in Defence to better tank physical attacks. It benefits from the fact that Escavalier isn't as prominent as it was before, and the fact that Drapion is quite easy to chip/wall with the right mons. It's definitely a little cheesy but can sweep a lot of unprepared teams, which is honestly a large chunk of teams.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351489781-noefrirb3kjzef2e1965qms710o7ybtpw

In this replay, Uxie was able to survive for a long period of the game. Allowing it to outlast a check in Copperajah, which would otherwise give it trouble. Uxie was able to sweep at the end, setting up on Sylveon and surviving a First Impression from Sirfecth'd, despite being below 50% health. I think this replay also shows how it can serve other utility while being a bulky win-con, such as being a fighting-type check/switch in.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351582864

This replay shows off how Uxie can set-up on so much common NU faces. Things like Bronzong are basically set-up fodder for Uxie, making it very difficult to actually take down. Additionally, Uxie is able to sponge hits from fighter (in this case, Hitmonlee) and is able to utilize the speed creep to outspeed Exploud.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351264773-rdzdyrwp5mtzgbp7o3ti96ndhoxpz24pw

This replay is a bit of a longer one but showcases how Uxie can survive longer, more drawn out games. Once again, it is able to capatlize on the fact that Bronzong is the opponent's steel type of choice.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1351562424

Even though Uxie while asleep is pretty passive/easy to exploit, it's still able to bypass Ninjask. Tanking multiple U-Turns in the process.

Essentially, this post is just a nomination for Uxie to rise to C+ as I believe between its versatility and CM sets, it serves as a decently viable pick in the NU meta.

What I really enjoy about this set is the fact that uxie brings defensive use being a good check to sir and a “counter” to golurk which allows uxie to have a midgame impact.

Btw thanks for the shout but i also have to give roses to daniYSB since he gave me the idea of running rest cm uxie

 

[roxie]

I've been discussing with Corthius a tad yesterday in regards to Copperajah vs Bronzong in the chat. Ever since Glastrier was unbanned, Bronzong sets have sparked immediately. Glastrier of course invests in a bit of defense stats for its Iron Defense + Body Press set to use Copperajah as Substitute fodder and on its SD set, it can straight up OHKO Copperajah with Close Combat. Bronzong's amazing abilities in Levitate and Heatproof is glue for many balanced teams. Bronzong isn't forced out as much and thanks to its Psychic-typing, it can actually survive an attack from likes of Sirfetch'd, Tyrantrum, and even Guzzlord after an Iron Defense. Copperajah can use let's say Arcanine to beat Glastrier, then something like Mudsdale to check Tyrantrum, but then you need another Dragon-resist so you have a better chance against something like Band Flygon/Guzzlord/etc. I just really feel like Bronzong's role compression and flexibility of sets fits amazingly in this really physically built metagame. Copperajah still has a sexy movepool though like Play Rough for Guzzlord and Scrafty, Stone Edge for Talonflame, and even Superpower for opposing Copperajahs. Rocky Helmet Flygon is also something that doesn't mind switching into Copperajah, dealing Stealth Rock chip, and then forcing it out with Earthquake. Bronzong -> S | Copperajah -> S- is what I have in mind.

I don't think this thing needs a huge introduction, its simply incredibly powerful, has good coverage, stealth rock, bulk, steel typing. The very sad part is that it's flagship set (or any other set besides CB) is completely unable to do anything meaningful to defensive Flygon, only damaging itself in the process of trying to achieve progress. With the rise of Talonflame, it is also forced to incorporate Rock Slide at times, meaning it wants to fit the 5 moves Heavy Slam / Power Whip / Heat Crash / Rock Slide / Earthquake in 3 slots (4 is rocks), leaving it extremely walled by the mons it didn't include a move for. You also have other, rising, safe no matter the coverage chosen switch-ins to it like Guzzlord or Drud. All of these trends leave a very sour taste in my mouth ranking Copperjah in the highest tier possible because they are quite noticeable flaws.