discussion points
to B
In theory, Celebi should work because of its movepool being able to check or overwhelm all of the A and above mons, bar Cress. However, as a wall-breaker, it suffers from a 4MSS and awkward speed tier and power. I tried to use a NP + LO set, but I ended up in a dilemma; you have to figure out if you want both STABs, Earth Power for steels, or Recover for longevity, since he wants all of those (honorable mentions to Aura Sphere and Dazzling Gleam). And even for its good bulk, its typing makes it vulnerable to U-Turn, a move that makes CS Mienshao and CS Flygon have a chance of KO'ing it. Copperajah's ubiquity and its AV sets also leave Celebi unable to effectively set up and KO. Fortunately, its SR set is still good and pressures almost all hazards setter, as well as its ability to absorb Bronzong's Toxic, which is why it shouldn't drop too much. But I think it does need to find a new niche in this metagame if it wants to continue finding usage (seeing it drop from UU is one of the worst timelines).
to A, though A- is fine
Being able to check all of the physical wall-breakers and having a naturally high speed tier and two great abilities are what makes Talonflame quintessential for NU right now. It's quite versatile with the physical set, but its defensive pivot role gives a comfortable place because it can handle pretty much all of Celebi's checks, although it has to watch out for Knock Out and rock coverage. It also fits on a number of bulky offense and balance, which are pretty much the trends. It still has a horrible weakness to Rock, but it’s relatively alright to circumvent that issue with a good team. It also makes a great offensive core with CS Rotom-M, pretty much my go-to on on any team.
my nomination:
to C or C+
Mesprit @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Trick
- U-turn
Because of its natural mixed bulk, needed Fighting resistance, and expansive movepool, Mesprit functions as a decent Utility Choice Scarfer. A naive nature can be used to preserve its physical power, while a timid nature is better for taking one or two special hits. Its nice speed tier means it can now spam Knock Off against the entire tier and most notably its Dark-type counters. Trick is also used to cripple defensive staples and one of most annoying mons to face right now, Cresselia. It can also serve as a revenge killer with enough chip damage against strong offensive presences like Star, Galar-Cuno, and Decidueye. I don't think it's exceptional since Knock Off spam also applies in every other physical attacker’s arsenal and Mesprit’s pretty outclassed as a Choice Scarfer by Rotom-M and Mienshao and as a Psychic by Cress and Star, but what it offers might be enough for some people to try. I also assume that a NP set might find a small niche now that Sigilyph is banished.
replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269756215-z7lqwgm4u12k3irj66upevnnkcwoyabpw
- Timid Mesprit spams Knock Off and scores two KO's
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1271021873-nzyr3mzpv8yodumxxueguj47wtb38fepw
- Mesprit weakens Piloswine and Gallade
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269760484
- I lost, but had I tricked Sylveon instead of knock off, I might've won.
to B
In theory, Celebi should work because of its movepool being able to check or overwhelm all of the A and above mons, bar Cress. However, as a wall-breaker, it suffers from a 4MSS and awkward speed tier and power. I tried to use a NP + LO set, but I ended up in a dilemma; you have to figure out if you want both STABs, Earth Power for steels, or Recover for longevity, since he wants all of those (honorable mentions to Aura Sphere and Dazzling Gleam). And even for its good bulk, its typing makes it vulnerable to U-Turn, a move that makes CS Mienshao and CS Flygon have a chance of KO'ing it. Copperajah's ubiquity and its AV sets also leave Celebi unable to effectively set up and KO. Fortunately, its SR set is still good and pressures almost all hazards setter, as well as its ability to absorb Bronzong's Toxic, which is why it shouldn't drop too much. But I think it does need to find a new niche in this metagame if it wants to continue finding usage (seeing it drop from UU is one of the worst timelines).
to A, though A- is fine
Being able to check all of the physical wall-breakers and having a naturally high speed tier and two great abilities are what makes Talonflame quintessential for NU right now. It's quite versatile with the physical set, but its defensive pivot role gives a comfortable place because it can handle pretty much all of Celebi's checks, although it has to watch out for Knock Out and rock coverage. It also fits on a number of bulky offense and balance, which are pretty much the trends. It still has a horrible weakness to Rock, but it’s relatively alright to circumvent that issue with a good team. It also makes a great offensive core with CS Rotom-M, pretty much my go-to on on any team.
my nomination:
to C or C+
Mesprit @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Trick
- U-turn
Because of its natural mixed bulk, needed Fighting resistance, and expansive movepool, Mesprit functions as a decent Utility Choice Scarfer. A naive nature can be used to preserve its physical power, while a timid nature is better for taking one or two special hits. Its nice speed tier means it can now spam Knock Off against the entire tier and most notably its Dark-type counters. Trick is also used to cripple defensive staples and one of most annoying mons to face right now, Cresselia. It can also serve as a revenge killer with enough chip damage against strong offensive presences like Star, Galar-Cuno, and Decidueye. I don't think it's exceptional since Knock Off spam also applies in every other physical attacker’s arsenal and Mesprit’s pretty outclassed as a Choice Scarfer by Rotom-M and Mienshao and as a Psychic by Cress and Star, but what it offers might be enough for some people to try. I also assume that a NP set might find a small niche now that Sigilyph is banished.
replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269756215-z7lqwgm4u12k3irj66upevnnkcwoyabpw
- Timid Mesprit spams Knock Off and scores two KO's
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1271021873-nzyr3mzpv8yodumxxueguj47wtb38fepw
- Mesprit weakens Piloswine and Gallade
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269760484
- I lost, but had I tricked Sylveon instead of knock off, I might've won.
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