Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

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:ss/celebi: to B

In theory, Celebi should work because of its movepool being able to check or overwhelm all of the A and above mons, bar Cress. However, as a wall-breaker, it suffers from a 4MSS and awkward speed tier and power. I tried to use a NP + LO set, but I ended up in a dilemma; you have to figure out if you want both STABs, Earth Power for steels, or Recover for longevity, since he wants all of those (honorable mentions to Aura Sphere and Dazzling Gleam). And even for its good bulk, its typing makes it vulnerable to U-Turn, a move that makes CS Mienshao and CS Flygon have a chance of KO'ing it. Copperajah's ubiquity and its AV sets also leave Celebi unable to effectively set up and KO. Fortunately, its SR set is still good and pressures almost all hazards setter, as well as its ability to absorb Bronzong's Toxic, which is why it shouldn't drop too much. But I think it does need to find a new niche in this metagame if it wants to continue finding usage (seeing it drop from UU is one of the worst timelines).

:ss/talonflame: to A, though A- is fine

Being able to check all of the physical wall-breakers and having a naturally high speed tier and two great abilities are what makes Talonflame quintessential for NU right now. It's quite versatile with the physical set, but its defensive pivot role gives a comfortable place because it can handle pretty much all of Celebi's checks, although it has to watch out for Knock Out and rock coverage. It also fits on a number of bulky offense and balance, which are pretty much the trends. It still has a horrible weakness to Rock, but it’s relatively alright to circumvent that issue with a good team. It also makes a great offensive core with CS Rotom-M, pretty much my go-to on on any team.

my nomination:

:ss/mesprit: to C or C+
Mesprit @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Trick
- U-turn

Because of its natural mixed bulk, needed Fighting resistance, and expansive movepool, Mesprit functions as a decent Utility Choice Scarfer. A naive nature can be used to preserve its physical power, while a timid nature is better for taking one or two special hits. Its nice speed tier means it can now spam Knock Off against the entire tier and most notably its Dark-type counters. Trick is also used to cripple defensive staples and one of most annoying mons to face right now, Cresselia. It can also serve as a revenge killer with enough chip damage against strong offensive presences like Star, Galar-Cuno, and Decidueye. I don't think it's exceptional since Knock Off spam also applies in every other physical attacker’s arsenal and Mesprit’s pretty outclassed as a Choice Scarfer by Rotom-M and Mienshao and as a Psychic by Cress and Star, but what it offers might be enough for some people to try. I also assume that a NP set might find a small niche now that Sigilyph is banished.

replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269756215-z7lqwgm4u12k3irj66upevnnkcwoyabpw
- Timid Mesprit spams Knock Off and scores two KO's
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1271021873-nzyr3mzpv8yodumxxueguj47wtb38fepw
- Mesprit weakens Piloswine and Gallade
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1269760484
- I lost, but had I tricked Sylveon instead of knock off, I might've won.
 
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Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
thread is a bit understandably inactive given the current test, but I have a few thoughts that shouldn't change too much regardless of the suspect test's outcome

:talonflame: -> higher
I think I voted for this to go to A last update, and I stand by that. Talonflame is one of the best pivots our tier has because of its insane Speed tier; you can pretty much always guarantee a safe pivot out against whatever switch-in your opponent has, and if your team truly needs it, Talonflame is a pretty effective move of Toxic and Will-O-Wisp, potentially useful against foes like Tyrantrum. It's not a Pokemon you can solely rely on for revenge killing---utility sets are far too weak and don't threaten foes like Salazzle at all---but it's a great glue option that warrants more attention.

:dragalge: -> higher
Keeping up the theme of pivots, Dragalge provides a really nice mixture of offensive and defensive traits. Adaptability means you really have to rely on Steel-types to take on its Draco Meteor, and because of that, play against Dragalge can often be very telegraphed, which makes Flip Turn super potent. You can easily get in wallbreakers like Life Orb Mienshao, Guzzlord, and Golurk against foes they easily beat. Toxic Spikes are also a gamechanger when you run into teams that lack a grounded-Poison-type.

:tauros: -> higher
Work Up Tauros is a surprisingly good wallbreaker; with Body Slam / Close Combat / Throat Chop, you don't really have too many defensive foes that cause you grief, and Work Up enables you to bypass Cresselia fairly effectively. It still struggles with being just a bit slower than it wants to be, but all things considered it's not as niche as its current rank suggests it to be.

:gigalith: -> lower
Gigalith is honestly not that bad, especially given it can disrupt hail teams somewhat effectively, but it's super hard to justify using right now over Copperajah and Bronzong. The Steel-types really define the Stealth Rock metagame at the moment because of all they do, and it makes using something like Gigalith, a Pokemon that does offer comparable defensive traits, really awkward.

Lastly, there are quite a few Pokemon in the C ranks that just... don't have a great niche right now. :gallade: offers very little over other Fighting-types and loathes Cresselia's high usage; :duraludon: struggles really badly with finding a set worth using because of competition with other Dragon-types and its Iron Defense set just not being the worldbeater it was in SSD meta; and :garbodor: just doesn't do anything. There are others that probably should be unranked too, but these three are the only ones I feel sort of strongly about getting rid of.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
Rises:
:tauros: in a metagame infested with ghost-types it seems that normal-types aren't that great but tauros proves us wrong. it is really good with its sheer force life orb-boosted attacks, body slam, earthquake, close combat and throat chop are great tools in its arsenal to break through most pokemon in the tier in 1 slot. its speed tier leaves it above a vast majority of pokemon as 110 is really fast and therefore having a great natural speed.
its tools help it to damage even great walls pretty well and is imo a great, fearsome wallbreaker in ther tier. it also has the potential to revengekill weakened foes. i think tauros deserves to be higher as it is also a great switchin to poltergeist spammers and it can threaten ghost-types back with a strong throat chop. I feel this BULL should be 1 subrank higher.

:talonflame: should definitely be higher, it has many tools, acts like a strong fire-type in the tier and as of late copperajah started to running rock-type coverage mostly for it to keep it out of the field. flame body is really useful punishing pokes such as mieanshao, bewear, pangorl copperajah, and flygon, which is really appreciated. its speed tier is incredible with 126 which sets it above pretty much all pokemon in the nu tier, and having it as a pivot with u-turn is really great. i think it should definitely rise a subrank.

Drops:
:gallade: oh poor boi, how you hate Mienshao right now, I feel this Pokemon doesnt offer much than other fighting-types currently.

:duraludon: didnt see that boi in ages, wether specs, scarf, suicide lead, there are other pokes which fullfill these roles better currently and faces stiff competition from otehr dragon-types such as dragalge, goodra, and flygon. i just feel it doesnt fullfill any niche aspect currently, would drop / unrank.

Other Noms I Agree with:
:dragalge: higher
:mesprit: to C

:celebi: down
:garbodor: down
 
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:tauros: C+ to B- or B

Agreeing with katy and rabia above me I'd also like to nom tauros. A very good speed tier of 110 outspeeding things like non scarf mienshao, heliolisk, zoroark and more. Sheer force is a great ability for it and it's coverage isn't too shabby with options like close combat, throat chop, earthquake, zen headbutt and even options like fire blast in addition to its stab body slam. Work up is also a nice tool for it to hit even harder and get that extra damage on those checks and counters.

:garbodor: what niche does this thing even have anymore? golisopod and roserade are better spikes in my opinion and it doesn't really hit so hard. Unrank this.

:braviary: No one has really talked about this one and i'd like to nom it 2 or even 3 subrank higher to B or B+ . Its bulk it pretty solid and can switch in on both of the dangerous golurks stabs (also dhelmise), it can come in on a vileplumes strength sap with defiant then punish it with a brave bird, punish defog, and can even use sets like bulk up scarf and defog and its not complete steel bait with close combat and u turn pivoting. So I personally think that its better than a c+ mon.

Thanks for reading and feel free to reply!

Btw some noms i agree with but i dont wanna go into that much detail:

:celebi: to B
:talonflame: To A
:gallade: lower
:mesprit: to C or C+
:dragalge: higher
 
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Pokeslice

Thanks for the Dance
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
After doing some playing around with this mon, I'd like to nom Braviary for even higher on the VR

:Braviary: C+ --> B

I was really really really surprised to see this mon all the way down here. It's a demon in the current NU with it's access to BB+CC for effectively perfect coverage, a great defensive and offensive typing that lets Braviary act as a good Golurk, Decidueye, or Dhelmise (the list goes on) answer while hitting hard, great bulk, and Defiant, letting it take advantage of tier staples Vileplume and Arcanine. It also has solid utility with defog and U-Turn, allowing it to fill whatever role the team needs. Bulk Up sets are potent too with Braviary's high HP and solid defenses, letting it set up on a ton of fatter teams all while keeping a great speed tier for Tyrantrum or Decidueye. All in all, a meta sleeper threat who I've started to seriously enjoy. Everyone needs to use it.
 

Mariannabelle

chill guy
top ladder valentine.png


I accidentally topped ladder so that means I have a moral obligation to shill the mons that got me there, so buckle up because I've been cycling through several teams:

:Ninjask: B -> Higher : Ninjask in B with the likes of Roserade, Rotom, and Sneasel is a travesty. Maybe you've forgotten the terror of Acrobatics Ninjask. Ninjask has a superb matchup against many offensively-oriented critters, like Mienshao, Inteleon, Flygon, Rotom-Mow, Salazzle, Starmie, and more. Ninjask requires plenty of support, sure, but it's also one of the easiest and most straightforward wincons to support. Just bring wallbreakers and Defog. Seriously. Results don't lie, this was all done with Acrojask. Sleep on the jask and you get the die

:Guzzlord: A- -> A : Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but with Bewear banned, we need Ghost checks, and with Pangoro banned, we need STAB Knock Off. Guzzlord, my man, was already good and now he's filling roles like it's nobody's business. Literally just click Sub on Vapes or whatever. Sub on friggin' Copperajah, you're fat enough to laugh at Heavy Slam. I'm tellin' ya, time to start running Play Rough Copper, because Guzzlord's the new fatty in town. Spam Knock Off, spam Toxic, click Heavy Slam when necessary. This guy soft checks so much it's not even funny. Beast Boost is neat.

:Sirfetch B -> Higher: I'll die on this hill, but Sirfetch'd was always better than Pangoro. Use Leek. Ignore Stamina at random? Heck yeah! Go through Screens at random? Heck Yeah! Odds are, you think that [insert something that doesn't check Sirfetch'd here] is a Fighting check until you realize that you're being Crit Brave Bird to death. Except Cress, fuck cress. For real, I've been a Sirfetch'd main my whole life and now I don't even need to argue that it's better than Pandaboi because it's gone. And Bewear too. First Impression backed up by some other priority is pretty nutty, if followed by the ability to just click some other stronk move. If Leek is too heat for you, use Band.

:Escavalier: B+ -> A- : A big winner of the Bewear ban, Escavalier is like, the best way to force damage on Cresselia teams. Band Megahorn go BRR, man. You haven't lived until you've watched Mienshao absolutely blow up because it thought it could take a Megahorn. You haven't lived until you've watched Gastrodon blow up because it thought it was a Escavalier answer. You haven't lived until you've 2HKO'd a Copperajah switch with Megahorn (or just blew it up with CC). You haven't lived until you've just torn Cresselia a new hole right through the damn Kee Berry. You haven't lived until you Knocked the Talonflame Boots and made it realize that it's no longer an Escavalier switch-in (er, you brought Heal Bell, right?)


:Comfey: B -> Higher : Yeah, yeah, I get it. There's certain things it can't scratch, but you know what? That's fine. I'm gonna shill it anyway, because Comfey has been so damn clutch for me for so long. Even after you finish disrespecting it, Comfey will still show up just to save your ass. Gotta finish off that Trex? Snipe a Mienshao that otherwise cleans house? Flygon? Draining Kiss. Gotta finish off that Inteleon, or Blastoise, or Omastar or whatever crappy shell smasher of the day? Giga Drain for days. It packs Defog and Heal Bell into one mon, and can even U-turn if you feel like that's your calling.

:Runerigus: C -> Higher : Honestly, the only thing holding this back is a lack of Pain Split, but if you got Heal Bell like me, you can run Rest. It's one of very few ways to maintain chip on Mienshao, since you can steal Regenerator with Wandering Spirit. You check the stupid T-rex. You click Wisp, you click whatever hazard of the day, you click a neat Poltergeist/EQ Combo. Stealing abilities is great. Shout out to Davon for this one.

:Braviary: C+ -> Way Higher: Dude, just Sub Bulk Up. You set up on like, half the meta. This thing cracks me up. Shout out to Quite Quiet for recommending it, because it's unironically good.
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
I plan on organizing a slate for us to vote on this weekend, so make sure to get any nominations you want posted soon! :)

Here are some that I've got so far:

(rises)
:salazzle: -> A+
Salazzle is :sogood: it's insane LMAO the two sets I've had the most success with are Focus Sash Nasty Plot and the standard utility set, and both are really great. The former is limited to hyper offense builds but is super nice because you just don't give a fuck about the common revenge killers (Choice Scarf Mienshao and Flygon), while the latter just supplies so much support. Even with Salazzle having some hard answers like Dragalge and Gastrodon, they typically despite Toxic, which makes them pretty easy to wear down throughout the game. Meri Berry said recently that she thinks Salazzle is a top-five option in the meta; I think this is a super fair take and should be reflected in the VR.

:rotom-mow: -> A+
I will die on the hill that Rotom-C is one of the most elite Pokemon we've got. Its Volt Switch is super cumbersome to play around because the Ground-types we have either get blasted by Leaf Storm or hate a burn from Will-O-Wisp; this makes preventing your opponent from gaining momentum really tasking and much of the time results in people using generic checks a la Dragalge and Vileplume to reduce the risk of a bad mispredict. The problem with this is that Trick + Choice Scarf Rotom-C sorta just... makes this not consistent either. This meta, much like the previous one, is very much defined by getting in your dumb wallbreaker before your opponent can; Rotom-C is one of the best methods of doing so.

:tyrantrum: -> A
I've seen some rumblings about Tyrantrum being banworthy; I don't want to ignore how dumb strong it is, but I think we need to consider that Tyrantrum 1) is sort of awkward to build with and 2) relies on REALLY shitty moves to wallbreak. Nevertheless, Choice Band (even Choice Scarf) Head Smash is a fucking threat, and even though I don't love how our pivots synergize with Tyrantrum, we have so many that eventually you'll get a good switch for it lol. I've also been trying some Dragon Dance + Scale Shot Tyrantrum lately, and although you need a good bit of support before it can go hard, it's pretty good all things considered.

:dragalge: -> A
This guy is still the best way to get Fighting-types in against Steel-types. It's like Rotom-C in being super inconvenient to play against because you either switch into a Steel-type and get pivoted on or stay in and get your shit rocked by Draco Meteor.

:escavalier: -> A
Is A-rank overselling Escavalier? Perhaps, but momma never told me to undershoot, so. Escavalier in my eyes has been pretty good for awhile now; it prevents Cresselia from ever winning game and is like Salazzle with how effortlessly it baits in and poisons certain foes with Toxic and cripples its best defensive answers in Talonflame and Arcanine with Knock Off, which severely hampers them from there on. Choice Band sets as mentioned by Mariannabelle sound fine too, although I personally value the longevity provided by Leftovers a lot more.

:blastoise: -> A-
I think dual screens builds are pretty good in spite of them losing Bewear and Pangoro, and Blastoise is a big reason as to why this is. Yeah, it sucks that Haze Mantine and even Haze Vaporeon prevent you from ever doing anything, but other than those matchups I've found it to be really consistent at boosting and winning on the spot.

:sirfetchd: -> A-
No, it was never better than Pangoro, sorry! However, I do think Sirfetch'd can slot in pretty well because it's strong as fuck and even has a bit more Speed, which is crucial for outspeeding Adamant Tyrantrum and anything running Speed for just that. Scrappy Close Combat combined with Sirfetch'd's coverage makes it pretty annoying to answer defensively, although the lack of STAB on Knock Off does make it a little less annoying than it otherwise would be.

:machamp: -> A-
Jolly Machamp 2HKOes pretty much any answer you'd throw at it with very minimal support needed---much of the time no support needed. I'm not sure on how to compare it to Sirfetch'd and Life Orb Mienshao, but not having to rely on an item or boosting to bash the fuck out of literally all of its checks is cool. I could see us ranking it a little lower (or ranking Sirfetch'd a bit higher).

:comfey: -> B+
Defog sets are epic, and honestly I think Calm Mind ones deserve more exploration. They definitely face an immense amount of competition from Cresselia, but Triage is pretty huge and gives Comfey a bit more use before it wants to set up and sweep.

:dhelmise: -> B+
We have very few spinners in the tier, and I've been high on Dhelmise ever since we got it. I've seen a lot of specially defensive sets, especially recently to help check Blastoise and friends, but I still just run offensive LMAO you cook so much random shit like Dragalge that otherwise would be running enough Speed to outpace and blast you, and Rapid Spin can turn it into a "sweeper" in some cases. B-rank is filled with a lot of random shit, and I think Dhelmise is a cut above much of what is found there.

:weezing: -> B-
Weezing is a lot better now with Mienshao, Sirfetch'd, and Machamp being the best Fighting-types; Neutralizing Gas sets in specific are great because you shut down Mienshao's Regenerator, which lets Rocky Helmet damage stick, and ignore Machamp's Guts. Toxic Spikes are also nutty as hell in some matchups, so yey

:silvally:(ghost) -> B-
A lot of the options in C and C+ are just not Pokemon, and I think Silvally-Ghost is definitely worth considering building around. It's a nice offensive answer to Cresselia, and with Bewear gone we've seen the stocks of Ghost-type Pokemon surge overall. Drapion sort of sucks to deal with, but you otherwise have a solid matchup against common Ghost-type checks like Guzzlord and Vileplume.

:arctovish: -> C+
Hail is awful, but Arctovish makes the playstyle usable all on its own.

(drops)
:arcanine: -> lower
I'm unsure where to put Arcanine frankly, but it's a fair bit worse without Bewear around to check. Right now it just feels outdone by other Fighting-type answers like Vileplume, Sylveon, and even Talonflame because their scope of usability isn't so limited in comparison and they offer a lot more in general.

:zoroark: -> lower
It's just... not impressed me ever. The singular core I've had success with is Zoroark + Mienshao, and while it's been good, I don't feel that it's shown A- levels of success to me.

:indeedee-f: -> B-
It's not a very convincing wallbreaker with the god raj and Bronzong on every other team, and I don't think Psychic Terrain-based teams are THAT good.

:charizard: -> C+
It's outdone by Talonflame to such an unreasonable extent... I can't imagine a context in which I'd ever consider Charizard outside of some wack Dragon Dance set or maybe on manual sun.

hope to see some more posts before the slate goes up :heart:
 

Pokeslice

Thanks for the Dance
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I plan on organizing a slate for us to vote on this weekend, so make sure to get any nominations you want posted soon! :)

Here are some that I've got so far:

(rises)
:salazzle: -> A+
Salazzle is :sogood: it's insane LMAO the two sets I've had the most success with are Focus Sash Nasty Plot and the standard utility set, and both are really great. The former is limited to hyper offense builds but is super nice because you just don't give a fuck about the common revenge killers (Choice Scarf Mienshao and Flygon), while the latter just supplies so much support. Even with Salazzle having some hard answers like Dragalge and Gastrodon, they typically despite Toxic, which makes them pretty easy to wear down throughout the game. Meri Berry said recently that she thinks Salazzle is a top-five option in the meta; I think this is a super fair take and should be reflected in the VR.

:rotom-mow: -> A+
I will die on the hill that Rotom-C is one of the most elite Pokemon we've got. Its Volt Switch is super cumbersome to play around because the Ground-types we have either get blasted by Leaf Storm or hate a burn from Will-O-Wisp; this makes preventing your opponent from gaining momentum really tasking and much of the time results in people using generic checks a la Dragalge and Vileplume to reduce the risk of a bad mispredict. The problem with this is that Trick + Choice Scarf Rotom-C sorta just... makes this not consistent either. This meta, much like the previous one, is very much defined by getting in your dumb wallbreaker before your opponent can; Rotom-C is one of the best methods of doing so.

:tyrantrum: -> A
I've seen some rumblings about Tyrantrum being banworthy; I don't want to ignore how dumb strong it is, but I think we need to consider that Tyrantrum 1) is sort of awkward to build with and 2) relies on REALLY shitty moves to wallbreak. Nevertheless, Choice Band (even Choice Scarf) Head Smash is a fucking threat, and even though I don't love how our pivots synergize with Tyrantrum, we have so many that eventually you'll get a good switch for it lol. I've also been trying some Dragon Dance + Scale Shot Tyrantrum lately, and although you need a good bit of support before it can go hard, it's pretty good all things considered.

:dragalge: -> A
This guy is still the best way to get Fighting-types in against Steel-types. It's like Rotom-C in being super inconvenient to play against because you either switch into a Steel-type and get pivoted on or stay in and get your shit rocked by Draco Meteor.

:escavalier: -> A
Is A-rank overselling Escavalier? Perhaps, but momma never told me to undershoot, so. Escavalier in my eyes has been pretty good for awhile now; it prevents Cresselia from ever winning game and is like Salazzle with how effortlessly it baits in and poisons certain foes with Toxic and cripples its best defensive answers in Talonflame and Arcanine with Knock Off, which severely hampers them from there on. Choice Band sets as mentioned by Mariannabelle sound fine too, although I personally value the longevity provided by Leftovers a lot more.

:blastoise: -> A-
I think dual screens builds are pretty good in spite of them losing Bewear and Pangoro, and Blastoise is a big reason as to why this is. Yeah, it sucks that Haze Mantine and even Haze Vaporeon prevent you from ever doing anything, but other than those matchups I've found it to be really consistent at boosting and winning on the spot.

:sirfetchd: -> A-
No, it was never better than Pangoro, sorry! However, I do think Sirfetch'd can slot in pretty well because it's strong as fuck and even has a bit more Speed, which is crucial for outspeeding Adamant Tyrantrum and anything running Speed for just that. Scrappy Close Combat combined with Sirfetch'd's coverage makes it pretty annoying to answer defensively, although the lack of STAB on Knock Off does make it a little less annoying than it otherwise would be.

:machamp: -> A-
Jolly Machamp 2HKOes pretty much any answer you'd throw at it with very minimal support needed---much of the time no support needed. I'm not sure on how to compare it to Sirfetch'd and Life Orb Mienshao, but not having to rely on an item or boosting to bash the fuck out of literally all of its checks is cool. I could see us ranking it a little lower (or ranking Sirfetch'd a bit higher).

:comfey: -> B+
Defog sets are epic, and honestly I think Calm Mind ones deserve more exploration. They definitely face an immense amount of competition from Cresselia, but Triage is pretty huge and gives Comfey a bit more use before it wants to set up and sweep.

:dhelmise: -> B+
We have very few spinners in the tier, and I've been high on Dhelmise ever since we got it. I've seen a lot of specially defensive sets, especially recently to help check Blastoise and friends, but I still just run offensive LMAO you cook so much random shit like Dragalge that otherwise would be running enough Speed to outpace and blast you, and Rapid Spin can turn it into a "sweeper" in some cases. B-rank is filled with a lot of random shit, and I think Dhelmise is a cut above much of what is found there.

:weezing: -> B-
Weezing is a lot better now with Mienshao, Sirfetch'd, and Machamp being the best Fighting-types; Neutralizing Gas sets in specific are great because you shut down Mienshao's Regenerator, which lets Rocky Helmet damage stick, and ignore Machamp's Guts. Toxic Spikes are also nutty as hell in some matchups, so yey

:silvally:(ghost) -> B-
A lot of the options in C and C+ are just not Pokemon, and I think Silvally-Ghost is definitely worth considering building around. It's a nice offensive answer to Cresselia, and with Bewear gone we've seen the stocks of Ghost-type Pokemon surge overall. Drapion sort of sucks to deal with, but you otherwise have a solid matchup against common Ghost-type checks like Guzzlord and Vileplume.

:arctovish: -> C+
Hail is awful, but Arctovish makes the playstyle usable all on its own.

(drops)
:arcanine: -> lower
I'm unsure where to put Arcanine frankly, but it's a fair bit worse without Bewear around to check. Right now it just feels outdone by other Fighting-type answers like Vileplume, Sylveon, and even Talonflame because their scope of usability isn't so limited in comparison and they offer a lot more in general.

:zoroark: -> lower
It's just... not impressed me ever. The singular core I've had success with is Zoroark + Mienshao, and while it's been good, I don't feel that it's shown A- levels of success to me.

:indeedee-f: -> B-
It's not a very convincing wallbreaker with the god raj and Bronzong on every other team, and I don't think Psychic Terrain-based teams are THAT good.

:charizard: -> C+
It's outdone by Talonflame to such an unreasonable extent... I can't imagine a context in which I'd ever consider Charizard outside of some wack Dragon Dance set or maybe on manual sun.

hope to see some more posts before the slate goes up :heart:
I actually really agree with a lot of this, but a few things I would add/nom and maybe change.

:Escavalier: --> A-
I really feel like this thing is still an A- mon (Sorry Rabia I know you love it) and isn't as splashable, threatening, or bulky enough in my eyes to warrant A with the other demons up there. It does have it's perks as probably our best Cress answer, and deserves recognition for it, but A- feels like the better spot to me. I think it's speed is the main problem with Escav to me. Always taking chip from everything faster isn't fun, even when you can beat a lot of them.

Hail --> B+/A-
I know that a lot of the times hail is MU fishy, especially with Shao existing, and because of that I'm not too sold on it and neither are a lot of people, but I personally think the archetype deserves a higher rank. A lot of teams still fold to the combo of Hail+Arcto, and although the argument is definitely that Arcto is what makes Hail good, it's definitely not Slash that's for sure, I believe Arcto and Hail go hand in hand, and since I believe Arcto is prob B+/A- in this meta as is, Hail in general should go there, too.

:vaporeon: --> A-
Believe it or not, Vap has been my go to wisher and Cleric atm, with some fantastic defensive stats and ability, making it a great answer to offensive waters, such as Stoise, Starmie or Goli, Cress if you go the Haze route, and demolishes Hail. Also has the ability to spread Toxic with ease and can even pivot. One of my favorite mons in the tier tbh and deserves a higher rank.

:sneasel: --> UR/C
I can't think of one I've seen in the past 2 months and I think our VR should represent that this isn't used. Even on paper half the tier has ways to beat it sadly. Probably usable now with Goro and Bear gone, but I feel like we should see it work first. This just looks weird on the VR, same with Rotom tbh.

:Silvally: (Ghost) --> B+
This thing KO's half the tier after a spike, and with a solid movepool, it's a terrifying sweeper. Goro and Bewear open it up a ton. Use it everyone. Oh, and it beats Cress. Do I even need to say more?

:Exploud: --> B
This thing sadly never took off the way it should have. It has mediocre bulk at best, a hard time getting in, and a prediction problem if you're Specs. Definitely a threat, but sadly not more than B imo.

:Articuno-Galar: --> B+
I love how this thing actually became good. FS+U-turn shenanigans are powerful and setup sets can straight up sweep if the Steel goes down. A solid speed tier, SpA stat, and ability make it a terrifying option on spike stack, too. I think it's come a long way and more than definitely C+

:Tauros: --> B/B+
Another fantastic spikes option that gets wayyy better with the Bewear ban. It's great speed, movepool, and Sheer Force make this a terrifying option to see on the opposing side, and I believe it's significantly better than 3/4th's of B and probably half of B+.

And last, but not least...

:Stunfisk-Galar: --> B
As almost anyone who has used any of my recent teams or talked to me in the past week and a half or so will know that I am in LOVE with Stunfisk-G right now. It's bulky af with that 109 HP and good defenses and has an amazing defensive typing in Ground/Steel. It's also one of the best ways to beat down and switch into Dragalge, taking around 25 from Utility Draco, all while packing a Cress and Articuno-G answer all in one spot. It's also a reliable rocker and one of the few, if not only, Ground willing to take a Mowtom Leaf Storm. I cannot express how amazing I find this mon. It fills up so many roles and holes in a team, many you didn't realize you needed, and is worthy of a spot on almost everyone's squad. Sure, the lack of Toxic the need to run a semi meh set right now in Curse+Crunch really hurt it, but it's upside even with that set is HUGE. I firmly believe that if more players start looking more at Stunfisk in the builder when needing a Cress/Dragalge answer or a Steel, their teams will get 1) cooler and 2) better. Everyone should give my boy a try. Definitely a B tier mon the way it puts in work with me. It goes really well with Vaporeon, Braviary, Plume, or Rose for those trying to build around it defensively. For those who don't think it can do much, I did get reqs with it and it put in work almost every game, but if you can't take my word for it, try it out *cough* Corthius stop hating *cough* and tell me how it goes. Have fun :D
IHOP (Stunfisk-Galar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Curse

Oops I didn't mean for this post to be this long, but I believe in every single one of these noms. Tell me what you all think.
 
Since the slate is going up time to make some more noms:

:escavalier: B+ to A- or even A
This mon is actually amazing 70/105/105 is some pretty decent bulk and it's typing only makes it weak to fire. It's arguably the best answer we have to the demon duck itself cresselia (ban that demon), ans it's coverage is also good with moves like knock off weakening talonflame and arcanine to switch into hazard damge, close combat and drill run to smack steels like copperajah and a very powerful stab megahorn. Yes it has flaws like not being able to last long without it lefties and can easily be chipped down with those hazards but I still think that this mon is very good in what it does.

:weezing: C+ to B- or B
Very underrated phys def wall. Like rabia said, it has the ability to check a top tier threat like mienshao and the uprising sirfetch'd, machamp and toxicroak. Item less makes it a good check to poltergeist golurk, physical decidueye and dhelmise. Toxic spikes could be helpful to wear down all sorts of teams so they can't come in as often, pain spilt is an okay recovery for it and will o wisp can halt threats like mienshao and flygon etc.

:exploud: B+ to B
Remember when we thought this would be the next massive threat when toxtricity and porygon-z were banned? Well no this thing is insanely mediocre. Sure boomburst can claim a few kills but its really slow and forced to run timid sometimes when it doesn't want and mienshao just dunks on it. It is also SOO prediction reliant and just doesn't get it right some of the time. Just very underwhelming.

:rotom: B to C+
How did this get to B??? What does it do exactly to get here to a place in B I'll never understand. it feels outclassed by rotom mow and other electrics and it seems rather weak. (Ok katy but i'm still gonna keep this in the C ranks)

:tyrantrum: A- to A
Haha this mon just clicks Head smash. Nothing can switch in on a banded head smash bar mudsdale or gastrodon and even that takes 40 with no recovery bar its leftovers. Also has other very good and viable sets like dragon dance, scarf, and rock polish and imo this needs a sus after mienshao and cresselia.

:sirfetch B to A-
This mon has shot up in popularity as soon as bewear and pangoro left the tier. First impression is a neat tech to come in on things like a starmie or rotom-mow and scare it out forcing it to switch. 135 ain't no joke coming from a stab cc and scrappy is a great ability to also hit those ghosts with a cc. Knock off is very nice to remove items from a dragalge, mudsdale, sylveon etc. And in the last slot poison jab is very nice to hit a comfey or sylveon on the switch also brave bird can catch out a vileplume and in my opinion leek is arguably the best item on it, although not consistent like a band or life orb it just feels nice to have a high chance to get a crit on a wannabe check and then just kill it to free up space for teammates aswell.

:machamp: C+ to B+
Like sirfetch'd this also has risen in popularity. It has 2 pretty good abilities in guts to wallbreak and staus absorb toxic and burns and no guard dynamic punch is a nice STAB and confusions could be very useful in clutch confusion moments. It's arguably not as good as sirfetch'd but I think its worth a B+ spot moving foward.

:espeon: B- to C+
Honestly this could be a contender for one of the worst mons in the tier. It's outdone by cresselia, who has better bulk which means it can set up easier. It's completely shut down by escavalier and copperajah and if it doesn't pack shadow ball on something like a sub cm set bronzong and cresselia also can check it easily. I think this mons only merit is that it can magic bounce hazards and is it fast enough to set up screens on a hyper offense team.

:arctovish: C to higher
Spearheads hail teams and clicks fishious rend pretty freely with no bulky water and even those are done by freeze dry bar vaporeon who can stall it out with wish protect although can be sometimes frozen in an attempt to stall it.


That's all from me and my noms and here are some other ones I agree with but don't want to but it into detail:

:silvally: (ghost) to higher
:dragalge: to A
:rotom-mow: to A+
:dhelmise: to B+
:indeedee:(female) to lower
:sneasel: to lower
:vaporeon: to higher
:zoroark: lower
:salazzle: to A+
 
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Katy

Banned deucer.
:rotom: B to C/ UR
How did this get to B??? What does it do exactly to get here to a place in B I'll never understand. it feels outclassed by rotom mow and other electrics and it seems rather weak. Unrank this.
I don't think that Rotom should be entirely unranked. It offers a great Ground-immunity alongside a decent Speed tier and spammable STAB in Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt. Being able to pressure Pokemon like Vaporeon, Dhelmise (with spinblocking it and firing off hard hitting STABs into its direction) and pressuring choice locked-Pokemon such as Golurk when its locked into Earthquake still gives it a great merit in the tier. Rotom also has very good Sets being Scarf, Specs, or even Nasty Plot-variants or Hex-sets, they all perform decently well and unlike the other Rotoms, it gets a STAB on its Hex' hence hitting harder in that sense. I think Rotom should not be entirely unranked, but I'd think it can drop a SubRank as I myself don't use it a lot and with Knock off spam and especially Bewear and Pangoro out of the way, good Fighting-types such as Sirfetch'd and Machamp find their way on more teams, which Rotom doesn't like that much as with the former it bypasses the Ghost-typing with Scrappy and the latter doesn't mind a burn at all. Rotom finds itself in an awkward spot currently, but that doesn't mean it should be unranked entirely, tho 1 SubRank lower I think is enough for now.
 

Corthius

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I'll only go over one mon for now (might edit the post later if I feel like it)
:salazzle: -> A+
Salazzle is :sogood: it's insane LMAO the two sets I've had the most success with are Focus Sash Nasty Plot and the standard utility set, and both are really great. The former is limited to hyper offense builds but is super nice because you just don't give a fuck about the common revenge killers (Choice Scarf Mienshao and Flygon), while the latter just supplies so much support. Even with Salazzle having some hard answers like Dragalge and Gastrodon, they typically despite Toxic, which makes them pretty easy to wear down throughout the game. Meri Berry said recently that she thinks Salazzle is a top-five option in the meta; I think this is a super fair take and should be reflected in the VR.
I 100% agree with this. Not beating a dead horse so just assume I said everything above + in my eyes one of the most sets pokemon in the tier no one/or at least just a small handful of people actually prepares for.
I am talking about the good old SubTox Salazzle (which btw was pretty bonkers like two or three months ago). Salazzle's ability to Toxic every relevant pokemon in the tier makes it actually pretty tough to switch into and if you aren't immediately switching into your Choice Scarf Flygon, well you get Toxic stalled. Pokemon like Diancie, Dragalge or Gastrodon all look like solid Salazzle checks but not only do they dislike Toxic (like Rabia said) they actually crumble to SubTox Salazzle as they will just stalled which is satisfying to watch btw. Please use this more so people become more aware of how potent and dangerous this pokemon is!
 

poh

<?>
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-> A

analaytic boosted hydros hit like a truck and you often see plume/dragons/mantine as water resist and starmie does fine vs them. spinning with it goes surprisingly well cause you force switches and the +1 boost is also really appreciated, outspeeding scarf shao. with recover you increase the longevity of a mon that does a good job at wallbreaking and supporting your team with hazard removal. flip turn/teleport on bulky sets is also rly cool to pivot out of mons like guzzlord and cress. definitely a good option to use as your generic fastmon and i dont see this mon getting worse in the future.

-> UR

i've never ever seen this mon do anything useful. meta is also extremely unkind to it. begone!

not gonna elaborate but i agree with:
-> higher
-> higher
-> higher
-> higher
1611317914462.png
Ghost -> higher
-> lower
-> lower
-> lower
 

S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

aka Ho3nConfirm3d
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I have no new noms cause everyone already covered everything oml Edit: Decidueye was a new nom my b, but I do have one new thing to bring up for discussion.

C Rank Purpose and Representation: There's two types of C ranks right now: 1) Pokemon that have a specific playstyle niche, and 2) Pokemon that are severely outclassed by higher viable picks. The former type makes a lot of sense for me, like Araquanid for webs, Galarian Articuno for Competitive, Archeops as a suicide lead, ect. It's the second kind that feels misrepresented to me, mostly out of usage and what I've been aware of. I get something like Rocky Helmet Runerigus as a way to chip shao; to me that's like the best example of a non-playstyle specific C rank. But then there's a handful of Pokemon like Cofagrigus, Gallade, Garbodor, Tsareena, Jellicent, Lycanroc, and even Scyther that see almost no use. It's hard to say if mons like Gallade and Scrafty have niches now as Fightin-types post bans, but most of the other Pokemon are below average for their worth. This part isn't exactly a call for these mons to be unranked, and I'm more just questioning the point of the C ranks in these cases. Like, should other outclassed Pokemon like Absol and Claydol be here too? I actually saw a defensive sweeping Claydol put in work in a room tour or two, and that's more i can say that I've seen Cofagrigus or Garbodor do in NU all year.

I'm totally open for people to defend these mons, as I haven't seen any discussion on them. It's hard to exactly understand the point of some of these really niche examples, or understand the basis of what's valid for C rank. Personally, I'm in favor of removing more rather than adding, but I understand the merit of either ideology.

Like I said earlier, this thread has been rockin and I mostly agree with what's been suggested. I'm not gonna "yup" every nom so far, so you can assume that I agree with your post if I don't address it below :)

:arctovish: :aurorus: C > B+
:sandslash-alola: UR > C+
:Vanilluxe: C > B (not as mandatory as Aurorus, but B+ could work too)
Hail is very easy to use and autowins against some teams. Even in the worst matchups, you may only need to win one or two 50/50s for your Arcto to sweep. Hail isn't even a one trick pony, as we saw a handful of variations last suspect, one by our tier leader no less. Even when Bewear was in the tier, I'd support a similar nom. With it gone, I think B+ is fitting for such a dangerous playstyle. I also topped ladder with hail for what it's worth, and honestly what other combination of 3 C ranks and one UR is that possible with. I don't mean to be confrontational, but I can't imagine a team this dependent on lowly / unranked mons to do the same, which makes me believe there's not an objective reason for it to be at the bottom of the viability rankings post update.

Replays for the UR sandslash nom:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1283091171
Here's hail vs the dreaded Escavlier + Vaporeon core, which on paper is able to destroy hail. Alolan Sandslash's niche on hail is to apply additional pressure as a sweeper, remove hazards with Rapid Spin, and bait checks in to chip them down. In this replay, I was able to secure my own entry hazards of SR + Toxic Spikes, which was essential for Sandslash to Knock Off Arcanine. This eventually forced Arcanine to be sacked, and led to a late-game clean with Arctovish and SD Decidueye. There was some hax in this game, but I'd argue that the Decidueye sweep was inevitable, especially after Alolan Sandslash support.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1282034849-n0phicouvxdq1s3ig5cgqs6m28qrflbpw
Here's another instance of Alolan Sandslash doing its job to clear hazards and pressure threats early on. It was also a vital secondary sweeper once my Arctovish get's paralyzed when KOing Effect Spore Vileplume. That way I can still have a reason for the opponent's Scarf Mienshao to lock into CC. I want that to happen so that, with Vileplume gone and shao locked, I can safely SD with Decidueye and sweep. That never needed to happen though as the the alternative was my opponent overpredicting and going for U-turn / Knock Off on Alolan Sandslash, which let it pick up more KOes in the actual game.

:decidueye: B+ > A-
SD sets are doing extremely well. They're able to break a ton of common cores and sweep at +2. I also think that with Spikes, dual screens, and yes again Hail all doing a bit better recently that there's more room for it to fit and function as a wallbreaker / priority cleaner. It's typing is super relevant for setup opportunities vs pretty much the three main scarfers of shao, flygon, and rotom-c, which is in part why it merges so well on offense. I think it's mainly held back by a handful of faster Dark- and Normal-types that prevent it from capitalizing too easily.

:espeon: Keep B-
:espeon: B- to C+
Honestly this could be a contender for one of the worst mons in the tier. It's outdone by cresselia, who has better bulk which means it can set up easier. It's completely shut down by escavalier and copperajah and if it doesn't pack shadow ball on something like a sub cm set bronzong and cresselia also can check it easily. I think this mons only merit is that it can magic bounce hazards and is it fast enough to set up screens on a hyper offense team.
There has been a ton of debate for what's the best dual screens user in NU currently, but Espeon is probably on par with Xatu and others. We see it work wonders on Davon's HO team, which saw numerous successful games and variations in LTPL and the passing suspect test. HO is a good enough playstyle and Espeon is far from outclassed when it's one of the fastest screens setters, and Magic Bounce has a ton of favorable matchups and uses. Lowering Espeon would need logic regarding how much worse it is than its competition. You could also say how the aforementioned team is outdated with Bewear banned, but still there's more evidence from the prior meta that Espeon is better than where it's currently at then worse. Could be wrong, but we probably need more time to see how Espeon fares.
 
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Pokeslice

Thanks for the Dance
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C Rank Purpose and Representation: There's two types of C ranks right now: 1) Pokemon that have a specific playstyle niche, and 2) Pokemon that are severely outclassed by higher viable picks. The former type makes a lot of sense for me, like Araquanid for webs, Galarian Articuno for Competitive, Archeops as a suicide lead, ect. It's the second kind that feels misrepresented to me, mostly out of usage and what I've been aware of. I get something like Rocky Helmet Runerigus as a way to chip shao; to me that's like the best example of a non-playstyle specific C rank. But then there's a handful of Pokemon like Cofagrigus, Gallade, Garbodor, Tsareena, Jellicent, Lycanroc, and even Scyther that see almost no use. It's hard to say if mons like Gallade and Scrafty have niches now as Fightin-types post bans, but most of the other Pokemon are below average for their worth. This part isn't exactly a call for these mons to be unranked, and I'm more just questioning the point of the C ranks in these cases. Like, should other outclassed Pokemon like Absol and Claydol be here too? I actually saw a defensive sweeping Claydol put in work in a room tour or two, and that's more i can say that I've seen Cofagrigus or Garbodor do in NU all year.

I'm totally open for people to defend these mons, as I haven't seen any discussion on them. It's hard to exactly understand the point of some of these really niche examples, or understand the basis of what's valid for C rank. Personally, I'm in favor of removing more rather than adding, but I understand the merit of either ideology.
This is only going to be a short post here, but I really think Ho3n here covers literally every problem I've seen on the VR. A lot of mons feel like they're just added or theorized to be good, but in practice see no use or don't really work, like a good solid portion of C rank. I think a true purge of those more niche, unused mons, such as the random Sneasel and Rotom in B or Scyther and Cofa down in C, would really help make the VR make more sense and reliable. For all the underrated mons in the meta that definitely put in work day in and day out, let them be nommed later if they are shown to be usable instead of crowding up the VR with what feels like filler picks.

I wouldn't just do a post without a nom so...

:zoroark: --> Way Lower
Besides Rabia in his most recent post, I haven't seen anyone mention this. Sorry Aawin, but it's kinda really sorta bad, definitely not the A- demon we thought it was at the start. It's speed tier is nice, but with the amount of First Impression now in the meta, Shao, the Psychic Cress that can beat it semi reliably, and it justtttt being too weak time and time again, it should drop a few sub ranks. There's a reason you barely see it anymore. It's a LOT better in theory than in practice.
 
There has been a ton of debate for what's the best dual screens user in NU currently, but Espeon is probably on par with Xatu and others. We see it work wonders on Davon's HO team, which saw numerous successful games and variations in LTPL and the passing suspect test. HO is a good enough playstyle and Espeon is far from outclassed when it's one of the fastest screens setters, and Magic Bounce has a ton of favorable matchups and uses. Lowering Espeon would need logic regarding how much worse it is than its competition. You could also say how the aforementioned team is outdated with Bewear banned, but still there's more evidence from the prior meta that Espeon is better than where it's currently at then worse. Could be wrong, but we probably need more time to see how Espeon fares.
Agreed. Also, I feel like we always underestimate Espeon as a wall-breaker. Its 130-base SpA and good speed tier allow it be a strong Choice Specs user on offensive builds once you get rid of Diancie and all the steel types bar Bronzong, which gets 2HKO after Stealth Rocks. Really, the only mon that rivals with Espeon as a Choice Specs user is Analytic Starmie on the switch, but I feel like you shouldn't run it over Life Orb in most cases.

252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 170-202 (50.2 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 210-248 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mantine: 178-211 (47.7 - 56.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO

my noms:
:vileplume: to A
Vileplume's still a great mon, but it's just not as sustainable as it was before (maybe because I keep running into HO and offense right now). Mons that Vileplume are supposed to counter are adapting, with mons like Sirfetch'd and even Mienshao using BB or Acrobatics to bulldoze through. Being utterly defenseless against behemoth Cresselia isn't doing it any favors, so a subrank drop might be considered.

:mudsdale: to A-
I'm surprised by how low on the VR list the mud horse is. With Stamina and Body Press, it's a soft check to pretty much every physical attacker in the game, and you can almost always reliably set rocks up. I always run +48 Spe just to outspeed SR Copperajah, which helps a lot when getting hazards up first and threatening it out. Smack Down+Earthquake can also invalidate a lot of Flying-type MUs, while Toxic + Protect can rack up damage against some of its checks on the switch.

other noms i agree with:
:dragalge: to A
Once you get rid of your opponents' Steels, Sludge Bomb spam is just absurd. Even SpD walls like Mantine don't want to risk getting poisoned and Draco Meteor'd. You can even go HBD and pivot out to let its team handle its checks easily.

:exploud: to B
Clicking Boomburst is fun, but its speed and mediocre typing hold it back from being a big threat. You can always pick up at least one KO once you safely bring it in, but there's not really a lot of safe switching in a pivot-galore meta.
 
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Cosmeom --> C rank

Yes this mon literally only does one thing but it is the best at what it does in the tier and the one thing that it does is super useful. Its the bulkiest teleport user in the tier which is super useful for balance in order to get momentum since it tanks multiple hits from most mons in the tier because eviolite 130 130 defenses is really bulky. Teleport is incredibly useful and makes cosmeom arguably one of the better walls for balance in the tier since teleport is an automatic "I have momentum" button and makes it one of the only walls in the tier which doesn't kill momentum for your team. Momentum is really important for balance so for that reason I think it deserves C rank at least.
 

Finchinator

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Cosmeom --> C rank

Yes this mon literally only does one thing but it is the best at what it does in the tier and the one thing that it does is super useful. Its the bulkiest teleport user in the tier which is super useful for balance in order to get momentum since it tanks multiple hits from most mons in the tier because eviolite 130 130 defenses is really bulky. Teleport is incredibly useful and makes cosmeom arguably one of the better walls for balance in the tier since teleport is an automatic "I have momentum" button and makes it one of the only walls in the tier which doesn't kill momentum for your team. Momentum is really important for balance so for that reason I think it deserves C rank at least.
You need replays before nominating a Pokemon as per the rules in the OP. Please edit them in or delete the nomination (which is highly unlikely to go through regardless, in all honesty), thank you
 
I have a whole host of redundant nominations, but I made an entire list of what I would rise/drop in the hopes to both share my opinions and spark a bit of discussion.

rises:
:salazzle: Salazzle: A -> A+
:rotom-mow: Rotom-C: A -> A+
:dragalge: Dragalge: A- -> A
:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum: A- -> A
:starmie: Starmie: A- -> A
:talonflame: Talonflame: A- -> A
:escavalier: Escavalier: B+ -> A-
:decidueye: Decidueye: B+ -> A-
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> A-
:drapion: Drapion: B+ -> A-
:sirfetch Sirfetch'd: B -> A
:machamp: Machamp: C+ -> A-
:comfey: Comfey: B -> B+
:blastoise: Blastoise: B -> B+
:dhelmise: Dhelmise: B -> B+
:inteleon: Inteleon: B- -> B
:braviary: Braviary: C+ -> B
:tauros: Tauros: C+ -> B/B-
:weezing: Weezing: C+ -> B-
:arctovish: Arctovish: C -> B/B-
:silvally-ghost: Silvally-Ghost: C -> B/B-

drops:
:vileplume: Vileplume: A+ -> A
:zoroark: Zoroark: A- -> B+
:golisopod: Golisopod: A- -> B+
:goodra: Goodra: B+ -> B
:exploud: Exploud: B+ -> B
:celebi: Celebi: B+ -> B/B-
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl: B -> B-
:charizard: Charizard: B -> B-/C+
:gigalith: Gigalith: B -> C+/C
:ninjask: Ninjask: B -> B-
:silvally-fairy: Silvally-Fairy: B-> B-/C+
:sneasel: Sneasel: B -> C+/C
:vikavolt: Vikavolt: B -> B-
:xatu: Xatu: B -> B-
:espeon: Espeon: B- -> C
:gallade: Gallade: C+ -> UR
:tsareena: Tsareena: C+ -> UR
:araquanid: Araquanid: C+ -> C
:jellicent: Jellicent: C+ -> C
:omastar: Omastar: C+ -> C
:archeops: Archeops: C -> UR
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe: C -> UR
:cofagrigus: Cofagrigus: C -> UR
:runerigus: Runerigus: C -> UR
:scyther: Scyther: C -> UR
:silvally-steel: Silvally-Steel: C -> UR
:lycanroc: Lycanroc: C -> UR

Notable Non-movement:
:stunfisk-galar: Stunfisk-Galar
:rotom: Rotom
:garbodor: Garbodor
:mudsdale: Mudsdale

rises:
:salazzle: Salazzle: A -> A+
Salazzle is the 4th best mon behind the S ranks, breaking through common cores with its powerful dual STAB and disruption moves like Knock and Toxic, as well as outspeeding most of the unboosted metagame. Most of its checks are either crippled by Toxic or NP Dragon Pulse, making it impossible to check over the course of an entire game.

:rotom-mow: Rotom-C: A -> A+
One of the best scarfers in the metagame, it gets free volt switches on everything because none of the good Electric immunes can actually take a Leaf Storm. Is able to be a solid Defogger or Nasty Plot breaker as well, insanely splashable and versatile pivot.

:dragalge: Dragalge: A- -> A
Checks Pokemon such as Mienshao and Salazzle in one slot while offering all of Toxic Spikes, a slow pivot, and good chip on Steel-types over the course of a game - great glue for a team.

:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum: A- -> A
Great breaker, and always forces the opponent to run a Ground or physically bulky Steel to check it. Dragon Dance can also be very potent, but is a lot more hit or miss. I don't think its as broken as other people make it out to be, but its very good at constricting your opponent's options while offering a solid speed tier and physical bulk to do so.

:starmie: Starmie: A- -> A
Fantastic breaker, Choice Specs sets are really hard to deal with for the average team, and it can also serve as a utility mon with Rapid Spin, Recover, and Flip Turn to take on a more supporting role with its great ability.

:talonflame: Talonflame: A- -> A
Solid blanket physical check, Flame Body fishing is very easy and its able to provide a ton of utility in the form of Taunt, U-Turn, Toxic, WoW, etc. while being the fastest non-boosted Pokemon used in the metagame.

:escavalier: Escavalier: B+ -> A-
Best Cresselia check in the meta, and is also able to beat opposing Steel types and pressure teams with SD + Megahorn and CC. ProTox is also a menace, allowing Escav to take on a support role with Knock Off to disrupt.

:decidueye: Decidueye: B+ -> A-
Ghost types are good. Everyone knows SD Decidueye is good with Poltergeist, but Choice Specs is solid too. The lack of ghost resists in the tier along with its ability to switch into and pressure Ground types is very good.

:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> A-
Gastrodon is the best defensive Ground type in the metagame, also serving as a Water-type check for Blastoise, Starmie, and more. Ice Beam can be run to disrupt Scarf Rotom-C as well.

:drapion: Drapion: B+ -> A-
A solid Cresselia check that doubles as both an offensive threat with Swords Dance + Knock Off and a defensive check to Ghost-types not named Golurk. Can also serve a utility role with Toxic Spikes that's very useful.

:sirfetch Sirfetch'd: B -> A
Better of the breakers, its Choice Band set is extremely hard to check with priority in First Impression and great coverage with Poison Jab, Knock Off, and/or Brave Bird. Leek + Swords Dance sets are also very dangerous.

:machamp: Machamp: C+ -> A-
Still a potent breaker, and is able to break through its usual checks, but has a lower speed tier and takes Burn chip every turn, as well as not offering Flying coverage. Guts is a good niche though.

:comfey: Comfey: B -> B+
Very solid Fighting resist pivot, allowing teams to stack many roles into one with the standard Gleam/DKiss Uturn Synth Defog/Aroma set. CM sets seem bad and unexplored, but the utility set makes for very good compression.

:blastoise: Blastoise: B -> B+
A cornerstone for HO, its also runnable on balance teams. Speed tier allows it to outspeed Scarf Mienshao at +2 with Modest, and its able to get through teams without Water Absorb without much hassle. Substitute even allows it to beat some of those given a couple more boosts.

:dhelmise: Dhelmise: B -> B+
Again, Ghost types are really good right now, and Dhelmise offers the best Rapid Spin in the tier and a decent offensive presence with recovery. Slow, but overall reliable.

:inteleon: Inteleon: B- -> B
Not saying that Focus Energy outclasses Starmie (though it has a niche in the tier), but Scarf Inteleon with U-turn outspeeds and has a very favoured roll to OHKO Scarf Mienshao as well as being able to bait in Pokemon to U-turn on for its partners.

:braviary: Braviary: C+ -> B
Could see this rising higher, but Braviary checks every Ghost type in the tier bar Stone Edge Golurk (which isn't too common I find), and can do some work using Bulk Up + Substitute given the right team support.

:tauros: Tauros: C+ -> B/B-
Very solid attacker with good coverage and a great speed tier. Its frail and relies on a bit of prediction to get 2HKOs, but it can easily chip down teams and beat most of its checks reliably with team support.

:weezing: Weezing: C+ -> B-
Completely shuts down Machamp and checks all Fighting types in the tier right now (other than Gallade I guess lol), offers Toxic Spike support for your team and is overall very annoying with Neutralizing Gas.

:arctovish: Arctovish: C -> B/B-
This Pokemon solo carries hail teams, and is the only reason you'd consider running hail. Can be unreliable as a breaker due to its reliance on weather and outright uselessness versus certain Pokemon, but very deadly in certain matchups.

:silvally-ghost: Silvally-Ghost: C -> B/B-
Again again, Ghost types are better, and now that this doesn't have to run unviable Psychic Fangs it has a chance to actually do anything versus teams with Ghost resists.

drops:
:vileplume: Vileplume: A+ -> A
With Pangoro gone from the tier, Fighting types have better ways to check the plant as a Fighting resist - namely, Brave Bird from Sirfetch'd. The rise of Salazzle and other special breakers also does not bode well. Good still, but not A+.

:zoroark: Zoroark: A- -> B+
Fragile breaker that is hard to get in and support. When its able to get in disguised, it becomes very potent, but getting it in with perfect conditions requires much outplaying and specific teambuilding. It needs too much support to be A rank in my eyes.

:golisopod: Golisopod: A- -> B+
Solid priority, but overall very slow and the prevalence of Knock Off holds it back a lot. It often only gets off a layer or two without dying, and can be quite easy to punish when clicking First Impression due to its ability and speed tier. Still the best Spikes user, but overall not sold on it.

:goodra: Goodra: B+ -> B
Good special bulk and decent speed tier carries this Pokemon, but it lacks strength with non-Choiced sets and Choice Specs/Choice Band overly rely on prediction and waste Goodra's coverage. It's also quite frail physically, making it easy enough to exploit once locked.

:exploud: Exploud: B+ -> B/B-
Amazing Boomburst, really bad everything else - very slow, no defensive utility, just overall a pain to fit on teams. Puts a lot of pressure on the opposing team at the cost of needing metric tons of support in turn.

:celebi: Celebi: B+ -> B/B-
Miracle that this hasn't been nommed down sooner, has a myriad of sets but the only one that anyone ever uses is Davon's HO lead. I've seen Scarf and other sets but none of them are good.

:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl: B -> B-
Got talked out of nomming this one down to C+, but a lack of strength without a boosting item and a weakness to rocks with one + no defensive utility makes this Pokemon very hard to use. Also, DWB is a pretty pitiful stab, and it gets effectively checked by any Ground type because of this.

:charizard: Charizard: B -> B-/C+
This Pokemon just seems bad to me, its not able to take physical hits like you'd expect a Flying type to and it doesn't do enough damage outside of sun or cheeky Belly Drum HOs, which are hard to set up.

:gigalith: Gigalith: B -> C+/C
Using a Rock type rocker normally means you can't fit a Steel type, which would be fine if Gigalith offered anything other than being a special sponge and sand.

:ninjask: Ninjask: B -> B-
I don't believe in this Pokemon anymore, its a decent pick vs. offense but otherwise it struggles to break anything and its checks often do more havoc to your team than Ninjask to theirs which means Swords Dance is risky.

:silvally-fairy: Silvally-Fairy: B-> B-/C+
This is probably decent, but I have no confidence that this will ever sweep a team with a Steel type, and the fact it has no recovery means that it cannot be a reliable Fighting type check.

:sneasel: Sneasel: B -> C+/C
This isn't DLC1, and Sneasel has a great speed tier but is overall very fragile and relies on Swords Dance to have any power. It can't pressure its checks without a SD boost, and even after that the checks live and return an OHKO. Needs a ton of team support.

:vikavolt: Vikavolt: B -> B-
Agility sets are very underwhelming and almost never clean like you'd want them to, and normal pivot sets are underexplored but just haven't been performing.

:xatu: Xatu: B -> B-
Xatu has shown no results outside of HO lead, though I think that it can use Magic Bounce against Pokemon such as Copperajah/Bronzong to keep Rocks off.

:espeon: Espeon: B- -> C
Same as above - I've been adamant about saying this is worse than Xatu as a HO lead, and I stand by that. Other sets are underexplored but show no results, so until then, C rank.

:gallade: Gallade: C+ -> UR
Has no niche in this metagame: weird speed tier, bad physical bulk, no proper ability, Psychic STAB not needed, tied strength with Shao but worse in every way.

:tsareena: Tsareena: C+ -> UR
I'm not sure if this thing was ever good, but it doesn't really do anything unique in the meta anymore as either Rotom-C or Dhelmise do its job better (depending on spinner or choiced).

:araquanid: Araquanid: C+ -> C
Underwheming Sticky Webs setter in a tier that doesn't really utilize them that well, SubTox is underexplored but I'm not confident in this Pokemon right now.

:jellicent: Jellicent: C+ -> C
Underutilized, but Jellicent just seems like a very large momentum drain to any team, and very easy to exploit especially given the plethora of Ghost and Dark types that are rising in viability.

:omastar: Omastar: C+ -> C
Mostly outclassed by Blastoise as it cannot outspeed Scarf Mienshao at +2, and is completely unable to break Gastrodon. Also cannot use White Herb due to reliance on Meteor Beam.

:archeops: Archeops: C -> UR
Outclassed by other pivots or even the not very good Aerodactyl, and Defeatist just makes it play on the back foot most of the time.

:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe: C -> UR
Used solely to provide Hail and Taunt to a team, I don't think its worth ranking as it doesn't really offer much even as a setter.

:cofagrigus: Cofagrigus: C -> UR
I legit don't know when or why this was ranked.

:runerigus: Runerigus: C -> UR
I saw a Runerigus get 1v1'd by LO Mienshao and I knew that this set was just not worth it. You're giving up a slot on your team to barely check 1 Pokemon, and you don't do it well.

:scyther: Scyther: C -> UR
Impossible to use due to an awkwardly not good enough speed tier and an overall underwhelming coverage that makes it unable to do much in most games. Use Ninjask instead.

:silvally-steel: Silvally-Steel: C -> UR
Every other Steel type offers more, if you need a defogger there's plenty of other options.

:lycanroc: Lycanroc: C -> UR
This Pokemon is okay with sand, but using 2 slots on it in this meta is pretty brutal and Lycanroc doesn't have the power to break Grounds and make it worthwhile.

Notable Non-movement:
:stunfisk-galar: Stunfisk-Galar
Don't think this Pokemon is that good, Curse sets have potential but they don't pressure the opposing team very well and this Pokemon is pitifully passive for the compression it provides.

:rotom: Rotom
Ghost types are good, and Rotom offers Wisp + Hex and Defog to serve as a decent breaker and a good utility bot for more offensively oriented teams.

:garbodor: Garbodor
This Pokemon seems okay to me? It's a Spiker that can check Fighting types without getting completely fucked by Knock Off, seems fine to me.

:mudsdale: Mudsdale
This Pokemon is not that good in its passive nature and inability to take non-physical hits, and I think that it would see a drastic drop off in viability if we had any good ground type in the metagame.
 

Pokeslice

Thanks for the Dance
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I saw a lot of posts commenting on Decidueye, and although I've made 10000000 VR posts recently, I thought I would add in one more quick one on Decid.

:Decidueye: --> Stay B+/Lower to B
I know that a lot of people have really been liking this mon, but I've hated it when I used it and found it lackluster when I play against it. Sure Ghost's are better now, but not for Decidueye. It always had the niche of being the Ghost that could kill Bewear and Goro, but now with those gone, the meta has quickly trended away from this mon. We're seeing a HUGE rise in Braviary, Guzz, FI from Fetch'd or Goli, Lazzle, T Flame, and faster Ghost's like Ghostvally or Rotom, which are now starting to get notablish usage. In its favor, I do believe Decid has a lot of cool utility and it can be an enigma when it hits the field because of its wide variety of sets, but the meta just isn't kind to it right now and it's pro's don't outway the cons. Sorry Decid lovers.
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
UPDATE TIME POGU

rises
:arctovish: C -> B-: most potent part of hail builds by far, can be very difficult to deal with defensively without a Water Absorb Pokemon or something like physically defensive Bronzong
:blastoise: B -> A-: one of the best setup sweepers in the tier currently, SubSmash sets are really potent and find opportunities to set up against passive Pokemon like Gastrodon and non-Haze Mantine
:braviary: C+ -> B: Flying + Fighting coverage is really good, and with the surge in Ghost-type usage Braviary is a lot more easily justified on teams as a way to shut down foes like Decidueye, Dhelmise, GhostVally, etc.
:decidueye: B+ -> A-: Ghost-types are flourishing, and Swords Dance Decidueye is a menace that avoids revenge killing from Mienshao really effectively and can beat up on Cresselia
:dhelmise: B -> B+: specially defensive Dhelmise is a bit more common now as a means to take on Shell Smash Blastoise somewhat well. it's also the tier's best spinner, which is a huge boon for Spikes build. also a Ghost-type :)
:dragalge: A- -> A: one of the best pivots and defensive answers to Salazzle + Choiced Fighters in the tier, also a fairly potent wallbreaker because Adaptability go burrrr
:escavalier: B+ -> A-: Cresselia becomes beyond depressed when it sees an Escavalier, and Knock Off Escavalier is really good at drawing in the Fire-types and crippling them for the rest of the game
:gastrodon: B+ -> A-: we have very few Ground-types in the tier, and Gastrodon is easily the best of them all in a defensive sense. it also prevents the broken Water-type wallbreakers from spamming their STAB moves
:machamp: C+ -> B+: with Bewear and Pangoro gone, people are turning to some of the other Fighting-type wallbreakers, and Guts Machamp can similarly muscle through all the common Fighting-type checks with Facade and Close Combat
:rotom-mow: A -> A+: it does a whole lot of stuff really well: Defogging, pivoting, Ground-type move switch-in, Choice Scarf user---excellent Pokemon
:salazzle: A -> A+: utility sets are absolutely obscene to deal with because of Corrosion Toxic + Knock Off, and even the Focus Sash sets with Nasty Plot are demonic
:silvally:(ghost) C -> B: it's a Ghost-type! :D Swords Dance sets don't have a whole lot of great defensive answers after a boost, it's a great spinblocker for Spikes teams, and the common revenge killers don't have the best time dealing with it
:sirfetchd: B -> A-: Bewear and Pangoro gone? time to turn to the duck
:starmie: A- -> A: wallbreaker sets do NOT have good defensive answers unless you predict the Hydro Pump every time. Starmie's coverage is absolutely bonkers and makes it a pain to play around, especially if it's Life Orb
:talonflame: A- -> A: pretty good revenge killer due to its Speed tier, fantastic pivot/Defogger, fishing for burns with Flame Body is very disrespectful but effective
:tauros: C+ -> B-: Ghost-types are better now? time to load up a Normal-type. really good on Spikes builds because of how effective it is at forcing switches, and Work Up 3 Attacks sets are fairly potent cleaners as well
:tyrantrum: A- -> A: very awkward to build with, absolutely nutty wallbreaker though because of Head Smash
:vaporeon: B -> B+: outside of making hail teams really sad, Flip Turn + Wish is goated for securing recovery on teammates like the raj, and even Haze gets use to bother Cresselia and Blastoise
:weezing: C+ -> B-: Neutralizing Gas + Rocky Helmet makes Mienshao very sad, Toxic Spikes occasionally useful

new
:sandslash-alola: -> C: hail.

drops
:aerodactyl: B -> B-: somewhat outclassed by Tyrantrum in spite of its Speed advantage because it lacks in raw power, still walled by every Ground-type in the tier, pretty easily revenge killed by Flygon/Mienshao
:arcanine: A- -> B+: much of its viability was from walling Bewear better than anything else, still a great slow pivot that can answer some physical attackers, but it lost a huge reason to use it
:araquanid: C+ -> C: Sticky Web teams just haven't taken off in usage
:celebi: B+ -> B-: IT JUST DOESNT FUCKING DO ANYTHING!!!! the only real niche it has is on hyper offense as a lead rocker with Healing Wish. setup sets never do anything, choice item sets never do anything except maybe get a good Trick off, sadge
:charizard: B -> C: Talonflame :)
:exploud: B+ -> B: it'd like for Sticky Web to be better in spite of it not being THAT slow; it doesn't get to spam BOOMBURST as much as it'd prefer to because of raj/zong/Diancie being everywhere, and it's really frail and easily revenge killed
:gigalith: B -> C+: the Steel-type rockers do the same thing basically but better, and sand teams aren't really a thing
:goodra: B+ -> B: most of the wallbreakers in the tier are physical attackers, and there's a fair bit of competition from Dragalge that it just can't beat
:guzzlord: A- -> B+: it's a Dark-type that loses to Cresselia; defensively it's still really good because only GhostVally out of the rising Ghost-types really threatens it all that much, but the somewhat disappointing damage output and poor Speed can leave it contending with other wallbreakers that just outclass it offensively
:heliolisk: B+ -> B: it's only niche atm is that of a very fast Choice Scarf user that can revenge kill Blastoise; it's otherwise just not very powerful, outdone by other fast wallbreakers, and too easily revenge killed
:indeedee-f: B -> B-: bad wallbreaker, psychic terrain teams not really that good
:rotom: B -> B-: it doesn't see much usage, and running it means you're not running Rotom-C. a fine mon overall that still offers a lot of utility, but it's sort of lacking
:silvally:(fairy) B -> C+: how am I supposed to ever win a game with this Pokemon that cannot meaningfully bypass the Steel-types of the tier. it's also outdone defensively by Sylveon/Comfey
:sneasel: B -> C+: what does this Pokemon do. it's just comparatively weaker than it was in previous metas due to increasing power levels
:vikavolt: B -> C+: Sticky Web never picked up, wallbreaker sets not seeing usage, not seeing usage overall really. physdef sets maybe ok?
:zoroark: A- -> B+: it really wishes to be stronger, faster, bulkier, really it just wants to suck less

unranks
:archeops: outdone as a lead rocker on HO by Celebi
:cofagrigus: setup sets don't take over games like they used to, defensive properties not needed/outdone by... Runerigus LMAO
:duraludon: this isnt SSD meta anymore sorry, outdone as a wallbreaker by the other Dragon-types and setup sets have really awkward moveset issues
:gallade: other Fighters are better + Cresselia is a Pokemon in the NU tier
:jellicent: other Water-immune options outclass it, it's probably usable but not really getting significant enough play to warrant the ranking anymore
:lycanroc: what does it do that something else doesn't do better
:scyther: somehow outclassed by ninjask L
:tsareena: dhelmise is a better spinner.
 

Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
here are some discussion points to get the next slate going:

:drapion: -> higher
This has been a bit of a contentious Pokemon, with its perceived viability among VR council members varying a bit between "really good" to "good, but not defining enough to move into the higher ranks." So, how do y'all feel about Drapion?

:braviary: -> higher
Braviary has picked up a lot of steam lately in response to the surge in Ghost-type usage. It's also a very potent wallbreaker or late-game sweeper depending on its set. Does B rank adequately reflect Braviary's rise in prevalence?

:roserade: -> lower
I just... barely ever see Roserade? It seems like Golisopod and even Garbodor have established themselves as the two best Spikers NU has, and the prominence of Copperajah, Bronzong, and Escavalier can cause Roserade to cede momentum a fair bit. Right now it sits in B rank; is that too high?

:virizion: -> lower
Similarly to Roserade, Virizion just doesn't see a lot of usage, in large part because the other Fighting-types---Mienshao, Sirfetch'd, and even Machamp---are so much stronger and don't need to set up to be a threat. Should Virizion drop into the C ranks?
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
:braviary: -> higher
I feel this Pokemon should rise yet another subrank as it is a great Pokemon in the current metagame, with many Ghost-types rising more and more in popularity, this Pokemon resist their STAB in Grass in the case of Dhelmise and Decidueye, and it has an entire immunity to both of Golurks STABs, which is really appreciated in the current metagame. Braviary also finds decent opportunities to set up with Bulk Up and has solid Bulk alongside Roost to maintain itself healthy over the course of the game.

I have tried Virizion lately and it doesn't do much what Machamp or better Sirfetch'd cannot do better - Virizion has a nice, solid Speed tier but I feel like its typing leaves it too vulnerable to the most prevelant Pokemon in the metagame. It has to run Air Slash to bypass Vileplume, Decidueye, and Dhelmise. It can for sure run Zen Headbutt vs Vileplume but it is still too vulnerable to naturally faster threats such as Talonflame, which it needs Stone Edge for and it cannot fit every move on its arsenal, therefore after figuring out the entire Set players can play accordingly and properly against it. Hence I agree to a drop.
 
blastoise a instead of a-, its the best setup sweeper, just get rid of the mantine and it brutually faints all the mons. its got good enough bulk to not just set up but also take another hit before getting a faint. I feel if you compare it to other A level mons its pretty much just as good as them. It can also function as a support mon with flip turn and rapid as another set on certain teams.
 
here are some discussion points to get the next slate going:

:braviary: -> higher
Braviary has picked up a lot of steam lately in response to the surge in Ghost-type usage. It's also a very potent wallbreaker or late-game sweeper depending on its set. Does B rank adequately reflect Braviary's rise in prevalence?
I think this bird definitely needs to rise, at least one subrank. This Pokemon provides exellent defensive utility, being able to switch into dangerous ghost attacks from all 3 (4 if u count silvally) of the tier's ghosts. An immunity crucial right now, given how prominent ghosts are. It also has a plethora of opportunities to set up with, able to set up on half the tier. Passive Pokemon like gastrodon, sylveon, mudsdale etc... all bceome set up fodder for braviary. Quite Quiet had a really good braviary spread for this, and is very effective in games. Able to sweep sometimes on the spot. Alternatively, you could opt for CC on braviary, allowing you to deal heavy damage to normal brave bird switch ins, most notably tyrantrum. You also have a better matchup vs Copper and diancie. However you can actually set up on non-curse copper, and can even 1v1 diancie given the right circumstances. your____bro can confirm???

replays showing off braviary being braviary:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1286046429 braviary almost 1v1 diancie at the end but diancie crit :(
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1284028170 braviary able to set up and win

ill try to provide more replays if I can over the course of today

Rabia said:
:roserade: -> lower
I just... barely ever see Roserade? It seems like Golisopod and even Garbodor have established themselves as the two best Spikers NU has, and the prominence of Copperajah, Bronzong, and Escavalier can cause Roserade to cede momentum a fair bit. Right now it sits in B rank; is that too high?
Sure, the presence of steels, and rising of escavalier make it difficult for roserade to do roserade things. However I do not think roserade should drop just because of this. It can still be annoying to deal with by putting pokemon to sleep (except escav) and setting spikes. Defensively, you're able to survive some unboosted super effective hits, given the right ev spread. You're able to switch into bulky water types and set spikes or threaten them out (allowing you to potentially put something to sleep). You also make for a decent rotom mow check, and can annoy most of the bulky pokemon we have. Whether that'd be sludge bomb poisons, strong damage in leaf storms, or being put to sleep. Obviously it's not the best pokemon around, however it definitely does not deserve to drop a subrank

Rose putting in work:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1287590034-93km2m9w76gy4lxjzkem5map92e2nxgpw
 
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