Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

Meri Berry

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Welcome to the official SS NU Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in NU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each NU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Vaporeon can be ranked in the A tier as a supportive presence, Glastrier can be ranked in the A as an offensive presence, and Bronzong can be ranked in the A tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council will consist of the following users:
SS NU Ranking Tier List

(in alphabetical order)

NEW:

Doublade
Snorlax

S Rank:

S Rank


Bronzong
Talonflame

S- Rank
Rotom-C

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Copperajah
Diancie
Dragalge
Drapion
Guzzlord
Xatu

A Rank

Golurk
Goodra
Mudsdale
Salazzle
Sirfetch'd
Starmie
Sylveon

A- Rank

Blastoise
Exploud
Heliolisk
Mantine
Silvally-Ground
Toxicroak
Vaporeon
Vileplume

B Rank:

B+ Rank


Braviary
Decidueye
Escavalier
Passimian
Tauros
Tyrantrum

B Rank

Arcanine
Garbodor
Glastrier
Ninjask

B- Rank

Araquanid
Comfey
Dhelmise
Kingdra
Palossand
Rhydon
Scrafty

C Rank:

C+ Rank


Aerodactyl
Duraludon
Quagsire
Silvally-Ghost
Weezing

C Rank

Druddigon
Gigalith
Inteleon
Indeedee-F
Lycanroc
Machamp
Magneton
Sandslash
Silvally-Steel
Sneasel
Togedemaru

---

Rules - Updated as of 4/5/2020
  • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted. Expand on your opinion with actual analysis showing understanding of the metagame and perhaps bringing a unique perspective to the conversation.
  • Absolutely no flaming, personal attacks, or general idiocy will be tolerated. Part of this is under moderator discretion and please know that posting in this thread is a privilege, not a right. You'll get warned initially if it is not something overly malicious, but harsher punishments can and will come with repeated behavior or severe offenses.
  • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. There needs to be more substance than just this. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
  • When nominating a Pokemon to move from one rank to another, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse. I can assure you that the VR Council already knows the obvious qualities and we are far more interested in understanding why you believe it has increased or decreased in viability.
  • Unrelated discussion such as talk of (potential) suspects and unproductive one liners that do not greatly contribute to discussion will be deleted. If this becomes a recurring issue for any particular user, then it could lead to an infraction. If you are unsure where to post something, feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord. Moreover, if you have a general question, then odds are it belongs in the SQSA, not here.
  • Being NU by usage alone does not guarantee a ranking. We touched on usage not being the sole reason behind viability of anything before, but this is very true here as a lot of things accumulate ladder usage despite not being the best option. Do not mistake the correlation between usage and viability as stronger than it actually is. If you have any further questions about this, please start a conversation with me on here or discord instead of posting it in this thread.
  • When new Pokemon, items, abilities, and/or anything else relevant to the NU metagame are released, please hold off on discussing the ranking of the new Pokemon or the rankings of Pokemon that are impacted by these developments until there is approval to discuss the matter by an NU Moderator in this thread.
  • Failure to follow these rules after warning(s) will result in an infraction or possibly a ban depending on the severity of the offenses.
  • If you are nominating a Pokemon to be ranked (meaning it was previously unranked), then you need to provide replays of it being used in the metagame and you also should go out of your way to be as thorough as possible in explaining why it has a niche in the metagame (Example of GOOD UR Nomination from the OU thread) -- a vast majority of nominations have been of poor quality historically and we reserve the right to revoke nomination privileges from thread posters at any point in time. If you are in doubt, then feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord prior to nominating a Pokemon and I will give you honest feedback on the post.
Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these Pokemon will be deleted (or nominations of these Pokemon will be removed)

None! Don't give us reason to add anything here :madge:

It should go without saying, but please be respectful when engaging with others' opinions here. Viability is, ultimately, subjective, and people will not always feel the same as you do about how good something is. Try to understand where people are coming from when they make a claim you disagree with, and seek thoughtful discourse when appropriate. If you're new, it's probably best to not post for a while until you understand proper posting etiquette and the metagame at large. Additionally, keep in mind that this thread cannot be moderated at all hours because there are a limited number of people to do so and we're not present 24/7. Happy posting!
 
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Rabia

Ganyu my beloved
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here's some discussion points

:toxicroak: :machamp: :sirfetchd: -> lower
The big three Fighting-types in current NU are Mienshao, Bewear, and Pangoro, and these three typically can fulfill the roles of Toxicroak, Machamp, and Sirfetch'd but to greater extents. These three have niches worth exploring and making use of, but it can be hard to justify them at times over their competition.

:talonflame: -> higher, or :charizard: -> lower
I've seen some discussion about which of these is better; I personally voted for them to both be in A-, but there's an argument for each over the other. Should their ranks be matched? Flipped? Or something else?

:cresselia: -> higher
The space duck has been generating a lot of discussion lately as a result of Calm Mind sets being extremely effective. It's bulky as hell and can snowball really easily with the right matchup. Does that warrant a rise? If so, to which subrank?
 
:arcanine: :dragalge: b+ -> a- (ESPECIALLY Arcanine)

Arcanine is the single best check to Bewear + Copperajah, which is incredibly valuable right now; it even gains momentum for ur team w Teleport and spreads status.

Dragalge’s very strong, great at taking advantage of mons like Plume, and checked p much only by Jah/Zong; with Flip Turn, it’s very easy to take advantage of those predictable switch-ins if you have the right teammates around it. It’s a poison that isn’t a great fighting check tho so beware of that. Tspikes can be game changing tho
 

zeefable

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hey i said in discord i was gonna make some noms, here they are. im still somewhat new here so if i say some whack shit dont be shy to call me out on it.

:cresselia: A -> A+

This should not be a surprise coming from me. It seems like Cress has really started taking off and the metagame is slowly starting to warp around it, but even then it's just so dominant. Stored Power sets have the option to go for game ending sweeps against any team without a Dark-type or get a couple kills with the CM + Sub two attacks set. Its speed tier allows it to outspeed things that would otherwise threaten it with status or SE hits (Mantine, Pangoro, Centiskorch just to name a few). It's not even that hard to build good teams to enable it, meaning that you can't get by with just a CT against whatever standard 6 there is, since one doesn't really exist.

:bronzong: A -> A+

Copperajah is understandably looked to as the dominant Steel and rocker of choice on a variety of teams, but there are a few things that I think are worth mentioning here, stuff that Copperajah is quite literally incapable of. The biggest thing I'm referring to here is actually its ability to spread Toxic. Toxic is so, so important right now. Even if the opponent packs a cleric on the team, that's 8 heal bells to your 16 toxics, and in long games its entirely possible to outlast. Of course, Toxic is not only good against fat things, but also makes a damn good job of punishing what would otherwise be fairly safe switches on things like Arcanine and Pangoro, the latter of which is especially important since its one of the most dominant breakers in the tier currently but lacks recovery outside of something like Drain Punch, so Toxic + something like a layer of Spikes is a great way to cripple its effectiveness. The second thing that I think is quite important is its Levitate ability. Immunity to Spikes and only half damage from Rocks means Zong is way less prone to getting crippled than other fat things in the tier while also having the freedom to run leftovers over boots which are forced on mantine and the fire/flyings. It also makes for a solid Flygon wall, where Copperajah obviously can't guarantee more than a switchin to Dragon Claw.

:drapion: B -> B+

Drapion has a nice toolkit that I think makes it at least worthy of a B+ slot. Just by virtue of its typing it does a whole lot, taking on Cress well (and not getting murked by Moonblast at that) and immunity to tspikes. I've played around with both SD sets that aim to use its high speed and coverage to act as a wincon and fat tspikes + whirlwind sets and I think both are quite effective. Poison typing is huge for it to not be blasted by things like U-turn or weak fairy coverage.

:sceptile: UR -> C+/C

Very sorry that I don't have any replays for this, if they're really truly needed I can try and go look for some. But I think that anyone who has ventured onto the NU ladder since the suspect has ran into this team or some sort of similar eterrain offense. It outspeeds the entire tier by a wide margin after the unburden boost, and its coverage is fairly scary (it also has other moves it can run like throat chop or thunder punch) especially when that 1/8 chance to crit a +2 Leaf Blade has to be in the back of your mind when playing it. I know I said in the NP thread that I'm not a fan of eterrain but I think it would be fairly inaccurate representation of the meta to omit Sceptile from this list completely.

:goodra: B+ -> B/B-

If you google image search for mediocrity Goodra is the fifth result. This thing is so painfully disappointing that it hurts. It's nothing more than a coverage bot that has a fringe niche in checking electric spatkers that the otherwise brilliant Mantine can't wall out. But it suffers tremendously from 4MSS as well as a huge struggle for item choice, as it wants hazard immunity to preserve its longevity but otherwise lacks recovery if it drops leftovers, and will still take a sizeable chunk from the tiers stronger spatkers (or stray sylv/diancie hits) w/o vest. Like I said its niche is clearly defined, but I don't think it's so in demand that it deserves to sit in B+ with the likes of things like Arca and Gastro.

:araquanid: B- -> C

Araquanid is a very poor Pokemon in my eyes. Magic Coat is SO predictable, Webs are by far the most ineffective hazard option in the tier, and it lacks recovery outside of Leech Life, coming off of its middling attack stat and absent of a Water Bubble boost. I don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that Golisopod is the much better choice of this typing when it comes to offensive purposes thanks to the insanely clutch First Impression.
 

Rabia

Ganyu my beloved
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I don't really understand the Goodra hate; yeah it has to predict to achieve maximum potency, but that's not a terrible task when Choice Specs Draco Meteor blows up anything that doesn't resist or isn't immune to it. Assault Vest sets are similarly solid because Goodra's bulk is honestly unreasonable when augmented further. The claim that Goodra typically runs Leftovers or Heavy-Duty Boots is weird because I think both of those are suboptimal item choices that don't capitalize on Goodra's strengths as effectively as other items do, and it really doesn't struggle with picking moveslots that much because you're going Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt nine out of ten times anyway. There are some other options yeah, but this configuration is just above and beyond the most effective in my experience.

If you're more just convinced that Arcanine and Gastrodon are better than Goodra, sure, but I'd rather support a rise to A- for them than a drop for Goodra.
 

S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

aka Ho3nConfirm3d
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:aurorus: :arctovish: :vanilluxe: :sandslash-alola: Hail - UR > C+: Hail teams still have a noteworthy niche in NU thanks to a limited amount of Ice switch-ins, making Ice-spam pretty worthwhile offensively, and complements Arctovish's Fishious Rend by nailing bulky Grass- and Dragon-types. Even without initial support, CB Adamant Fishious Rend still snags 2HKOs a ton of Water resists–especially after Hail chip–like Rotom-C, Starmie, Dragalge, and most Golisipod sets. This makes it hard for Copperjah and Bronzong to switch out against Arctofish, and once they're gone, then Tripple Axel from Sandslash-Alola can snag a ton of OHKOs. Gastrodon and Mantine may also go down to Sandslash-Alola, but Freeze-Dry from the Hail setters can also be pulled off to target these mons. Like I mention in my team dump post, Choice Scarf Mienshao is probably Hail's biggest concern, but there are still a lot of countermeasures for it to fill in the last 2-4 slots on the team. This playstyle is likely one of the best representations of HO right now, but C+ is likely a good starting place for it.

I was able to get reqs solely with Hail, as well as win r1 of the NU Winter Seasonal with it. Here are some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-535916
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1258456657-m5xn9c8i5feodhu8yhb049tordfl44upw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1258448305-r4pc7ug0kvv7ymovfwxmsraoh8pe68lpw

:cresselia: Cresselia - A+ > S: Cresslelia outright wins games when teams don't have ample prep for either its Moonblast or Substitute sets (sometimes Rest sets as well). Calm Mind + Kee Berry is enough boosting for it to be unbreakable, and it's already at a great enough Speed to be faster than breakers like Bewear, Pangoro, Exploud, and more if it wanted to for the small tradeoff of a little bulk. Given that teams need specific Cress counters or perfect positioning to not let it set up, Cresselia comes across as just as viable, threatening, and centralizing as the rest of the S ranks. Also as Davon mentioned in the NP thread, countering Sigilph while also using it as an opportunity to set up is another feather in its cap that shouldn't be left unsaid regarding its ranking.

Limited support with Sticky Web and a free switch to an unstoppable sweep:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1259881701
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1259886693
Cress wars, came down to fishing for crits / pp stalling:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1259900260

Those are the two aspects I felt confident and adamant about regarding noms. I agree with Expulso's post and most of zeefable's post; I agree with the rises. :pincurchin: being significantly lower than :raichu-alola: doesn't sit well with me given that they have to go hand in hand to make Raichu-Alola a viable sweeper, so would they not be the same rank? Out of the B rank Fighting-types, :sirfetch probably is the best out of them thanks to good priority + Flying coverage for Vileplume and should likely stay there. :machamp: could drop to B- as nicher Pangoro alternative, and :toxicroak: and :scrafty: haven't seen enough use for C+ imo, let alone B, and especially given there's no shortage of great Fighting-types to choose from anyways.

Thanks for reading, and the VR looks great irregardless of my suggestions :)
 

Pokeslice

Thanks for the Dance
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After looking through the VR, I think there's a few things that stand out to me, but otherwise good job once again :D

:sigilyph: S --> A+/A
I know a lot of people on council really feel like this mon is THE top tier threat, hence the suspect, but what the Suspect Test and Research Week have shown me is that Sigi isn't an S tier threat. Don't get me wrong, it's very good, but it's not as splashable nor as good as the other two mons in S tier. I've found that it can be heavily matchup based at times, sometimes straight up sweeping but hard to get in consistently to do work, especially against more offensive teams. To me, it just isn't in the same tier as Copper, Bewear, or even Shao and should drop slightly. I even think it might be A, but I know that people won't agree with that.

:mienshao: A+ --> S
To be honest, I was really surprised Shao wasn't guaranteed an S tier slot. You can almost never go wrong with throwing this mon on a team. It's phenomenal coverage, speed tier, and busted ability in Regenerator make it the best scarfer by a long shot, but that isn't it's only set. People are really starting to branch out, experimenting with LO, Protective Pads, SD, Reckless, and I've even seen CB P Jab OHKO my fairy on the switch. Just like Copper, you can literally never go wrong with Shao. It really should be S, and I'd even go as far as to argue it can be the best mon in the tier.

:cresselia: A --> A+/S
I really really hate cress (ban it plz thanks). This mon has the potential to literally win from turn 1 or 5 or 10 consistently, really whenever you decide to send it out. Sub CM sets demolish fatter teams and there's even the rarer utility Cress that's really really powerful and everyone should try if they haven't. People are even branching out to use Kee Berry or the terrain seeds on Cress now, boosting its already unbreakable bulk to new heights. 120/120/130 bulk lets it eat even super effective hits for days. Besides the fact that this needs to go soon, it should move up a tier. It's arguably better than every mon in A+ right now, and definitely too good for A tier. It's ability to warp/snowball/just win entire games makes it an unmovable demon that should be A+ min imo.

:charizard:/:talonflame: Flip them at least
I was reallyyyy surprised Zard was higher than Flame. The only thing it has over Talon is the higher offensive presence and Scorching Sands for Dragalge, but in practice, it's a lot worse. Talon's higher speed, stupid good ability in Flame Body, and the power to pivot put it way above Zard in my experience. Talon also has the ability to severely punish things like Shao, rockless Copper, and other pivots like Jask. Compare that to Zard, who's Blaze is nowhere near Flame Body in effectiveness, especially for what you want it to wall, doesn't get to pivot out of it's checks to keep momentum, and has a lot harder of a time getting in in my experience because of its lower speed letting you get beat down/not letting you roost as easily. Maybe I'm sleeping on Zard? But from my experience it's really a worse Talonflame and a B+/B mon at best, while Talonflame is clearly an A- mon in the tier atm.

:Arcanine:/:Dragalge: B+ --> A-
Expulso outlines why they should rise so go read his post, but both of these are great picks rn. Arcanine is a fantastic Copper+Bewear answer all in one, while Dragalge abuses the slower mons in the tier, and with newfound access to Flip Turn, can keep up momentum. Specs sets can also demolish teams, and with a high spdef stat, it can come in consistently and and break holes, retain momentum, or set up t spikes on a large portion of the tier. Both are good mons and deserve to be A- and clearly above the other B+ mons, minus maybe Talon in my eyes.

:silvally:-steel C --> B
How the mighty have fallen. I'm really surprised to see Steelvally this low on the vr as, imo, it's the best Silvally form out there right now, on par for sure with Fairyvally. I've found it to have a legitimate niche above all the other Steels, and although Copper exists, Steelvally has a bunch of powerful traits that separate it from everything else. Access to 1) defog 2) a good speed tier and 3) an actual pivoting option in either U-Turn or Parting Shot let it really shine. It also has access to moves like T-wave/Toxic and other support moves on top of a no drawback Steel Brave Bird. It's significantly better than either mon in C, C+, or B-, and even more than half of B in my opinion and should be moved higher. It's a sleeper pick, but by no means is it a C tier mon here.
Replay: Shows that it can really pressure and cripple/punish common cores https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1252691242-1gqvakrmf9kipnfll3o014x3w1jdun1pw ps: if you want me to remove the replay dm me and I will : )

:runerigus: UR --> C/C+
I thought I would throw in a fun rocker I've used for everyone that's been looking for a rocker not named Copper or Zong. Rune has a legit niche in this meta rn with it's ability to actually PUNISH SHAO. I know, crazy to think of, but it can. With the ability to take Regen, Helmet sets on top of Spikes/Rocks easily whittle down Shao while also patching the one main problem it has in recovery. Rune also gets access to SR, Wisp, Memento, and good attacking stats+coverage, letting it solidly support the team while punishing common threats like Zong/Copper. Wandering Spirit also beats stuff like Bewear or punishes Scrappy CC Goro. It's a fire mon everyone should try it out.

Thanks for reading this super long post and tell me what you all think!
 

Elias PSY

Cursola enthusiat
is a Tiering Contributor
:machamp: / :sirfetchd: -> C+

There is little reason to use them other pangoro other than facade/brave bird negating vileplume.Either slower or relying on choice item mean they need more prediction to break through teams (especially locking into first impression sucks).Bewear being top 3 fight doesn't help in they favor,eating at least 1 close combat and force them out when pangoro just throws close combat without drawbacks+psychic immune is always nice to punish mono stored power cresselia.

1610397318861.png
:Stay B

Nasty plot distinguished croak from others fighters.Thanks to pangoro being one of best breakers in the tier,fightings resists often run 0 spdef investissment and for some ones,no item mean they get chipped easily to insure a nasty plot sweep.Dry skin gives croak good setup opportunities notably sit on mantine since they run haze for cm cress/sigilyph,choice locked starmie or vaporeon.His 4mss is probably his worse issue having to choose between fighting priority or nuke focus blast.Overall decent pokemon and should be better again with less fighting competition in future.


1610397593447.png
: ->C

Offensive sets are fullfilled better by starmie who get better coverage and utility in rapid spin(the only relevant mon intelon outspeed is salazzle and starmie lives one sludge wave so bonus speed isn't as useful).Dual Screens(+safeguard) isn't as good as during barbaracle+tea meta.Scarf sets has some merit punishing leading mienshao but outside of that,can't use speed advantage against electric terrain teams and often does nothing during match.One dimensional mon who need too much support to shine with offensive sets or doesn't fit well on actual metagame (screens set).

1610400448899.png
: ->A+

Infinite coverage (he only need 3 moves to hit the entire metagame but well),great speed for both wallbreak and revenge kills.Broken analytic 2hkoing with rocks no counters,even cresselia can't switch on hpump unless if spdef invested.
.A bunch of threatening sets in specs,lo 3 attacks,boots pivot,dual screens,defensive rapid spin even scarf+trick is viable thanks to flip turn preventing being a momemtum sink.
Do you need something else?
U-turn/First impression weakness can't make it S rank at all but it's surely better than the entire A rank (considering cresselia should rise).
 
:ss/arcanine: :ss/dragalge: to A-
As said earlier by others, these two DEFINITELY need to rise. Arcanine is an incredible check to many of the tier's threats, such as bewear, copperajah, mienshao, etc... It has semi-reliable recovery in morning sun, and can slow pivot out to teammates via teleport.

Dragalge is similar, being able to deal massive damage to everything, and flip turning on mons that can resist or tank a few hits. It also serves as an excellent sal*zzle check, which is pretty dangerous as well. In general, being able to generate momentum for it's team and being able to dish out nukes is why it should be A-. It even has some good bulk, allowing it to live many hits.

:ss/talonflame: switch with charizard

Talonflame is really good right now due to it's many roles it takes on in the metagame. Being able to pivot out to teammates, having a chance to burn Pokemon with u-turn, and also having reliable recovery, just like zard. Zard can dish out more damage, however with more guzzlord, dragons, and rocks mons, along with the already existing bulky waters. Zard has a tough time effectively dishing out large damage.

:ss/sigilyph: to a+ and :ss/cresselia: to s

As it stands sigilyph is incredibly good, versatile and is also having a suspect test for it. However I don't feel like sigilyph is nearly as splashable or as good as people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, it is good, but not as good as copperajah or bewear. Sigi always wants more power, speed and bulk, struggles with coverage and is easily revenge killed.

Cresselia on the other hand is far more splashable on a team, able to fit on most team archetypes. Many pokemon are now running toxic for cresselia, as it's one of the few counterplay measures to cresselia. Unlike sigilyph, cresselia does not struggle as much against offensive teams, and can still tear apart defensive teams with team support and damage on steels. There are also many cresselia sets, with the kee berry set becoming more popular now. Additonally, many of its checks are threatened by moonblast, the most notable ones being zoroark and pangoro. Kee berry sets nulify poltergeist users, removing checks in that department as well. Overall, I feel like Cresselia is a pokemon that should always be considered for when teambuilding, and fits on many styles of teams.

:ss/scrafty: lower

i really haven't seen much scrafty on ladder, but it seems generally outclassed by every other fighter. Destroyed by sylveon which is on like every team, and if it's not sylveon it's gonna be diancie, comfey or another fighting check. It also literally doesn't do anything different than other fighters? It gets killed many times overboard with cc from opposing fighters, set up sets are ruined by fairies. Not to mention plume and talonflame gaining popularity. I don't see how this is ranked higher than something like alolan-raichu or comfey, or most of c for that matter.

thanks for reading, this is like my 3rd post ever in the entirety of smogon posting so if my post is bad, lmk what i can do better.
 

Katy

You should know I'm never gonna change!
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:scrafty: with the influx of strong wallbreakers such as Goodra (which i'll take later in this post) and also fairy-types such as sylveon, fairyvally, and comfey i just dont see scrafty in a great place in the current metagame right now. scrafty has trouble breaking past a lot of defensive cores and with cresselia running moonblast more often than not, they have strong coverage options versus it. furthermore sigilyphs power in its calm mind sets just goes through scrafty with its stab in air slash. other strong wallbreakers such as goodra, dragalge, talonflame, and more importanly bewear, pangoro, and mienshao just dont give this pokemon breathing room to shine in the current meta. i would drop scrafty.

:goodra: is an excellent pokemon with its typing and bulk and its insane coverage options, which allows it to bypass most its checks in mantine, copperajah, and with a strong draco meteor it it just doesnt have trouble to break past cores. the choice specs set in itself is really threatening already and tbh it doesnt have a bad speed tier for a scarfset either. goodra is bulky enough to tank most hits and is a great offensive check to most common pokemon, most noteably mantine, rotom-mow, bronzong, and celebi thanks to ity great offensive movepool. it can even hit the dangerous fairy-types such as sylveon and comfey for a super effective sludge bomb / sludge wave and no fairy likes to take a strong coverage option. i feel like goodra should rise 1 subrank and should be explored more.

:talonflame: & :charizard: case, this is a tricky one but i feel like they both should be put on the same ranking if not talonflame should move up over charizard. both are excellent at what they do, but i feel talonflames initial speed is much more appreciated with outpacing most common pokemon already naturally, flame body gives it a niche over zard, which can threaten offensive threats instantly. its bulk is also decent enough and with having u-turn in its arsenal it clearly shines over zard. talonflame furthermore has access to a reliable way of setting up with swords dance (bulk up even) and with flare blitz and brave bird it doesnt need much to break past most mons. also it has a decent defensive set with wisp + flamethrower which can help versus a lot of pokemon in the tier. zard on the other hand has a tough time with breaking past a lot of common cores and without u-turn it offers not much more on the table compared to talonflame. i feel talon should be over zard due to better speed tier, access to u-turn and less trouble breaking past defensive cores due to access to swords dance and flame body threatening most common cores, especially mienshao which tries to pivot out on it.

:cresselia: should move up 1 subrank, that poke is just crazy in what it does, be it sub+cm, with stored power and moonlight, or even cm+2 attacks + moonlight, it has no real trouble in the current metagame with having an apprecited ground immunity due to levitate, its bulk speaks for itself and after a couple of calm mind-boosts it is hard to get rid of the pokemon which leads to most teams conserving their dark- or strong bug-types such as pangoro, and escavalier for it. after a couple rounds of chip-damage, bronzong falls to it as well. this pokemon has - for what it does - a great speed tier as well. so i feel like cresselia should move up 1 subrank.

:inteleon: ya, where that boi been? when it dropped it had a great impact on the tier, being deemed even too strong by some people of the nu playerbase, but it slowly but surely falls in its viability and effectiveness. its choice specs set has trouble to break past defensive cores with mantine, goodra, and dragalge being so common. its bulk is abysmal and only its speed tier is reliable but most inteleons are used for dual screens nowadays which leaves it to that 1 niche only, i feel like with only that 1 niche left in its arsenal it should not be in the same rank as pokemon which prove to be more effective in the meta. drop it 1 subrank.

:dragalge: 1 subrank higher. slow flip-turn is great and the dual-typing in dragon and poison gives it alot of merits nowadays with threatening fairy-types, it can even spread out toxic spikes if you will and can handle therefore bulky threats such as mudsdale, arcanine, and gastrodon, which is really appreciated to wear them down. i feel this poke can rise up 1 subrank, as slow flip turning + access to toxic spikes goes a very good way in the metagame.

:arcanine: i feel could also go 1 subrank higher, teleport is good, wisp is nice to lure in tyrantrum and flygon, and having access to recovery in form of morning sun is great for a otherwise vulnerable fire-type in conjunction with heavy-duty boots it has the longevity to act like a great defensive pivot option. it also threatens copperajah, bronzong, and rotom-mow which is very appreciated right now.

that's it for now as i have no other opinions so far besides agreeing to :starmie: which i feel could also move up 1 subrank.

thank you for reading and have a great day everyone! :)
 
Sup, guys! Here are my main thoughts on the VR as of right now:

:mienshao: A+ -> S

Sheer versatility and splashability makes Mienshao a clear S tier in my opinion. Choice Scarf is the most consistent form of speed control we have right now, while Life Orb provides excelent wallbreaking potential.

:vileplume: A+ -> S

Effect Spore RNG is infuriating, but it is so good. Furthermore, excellent bulk coupled with amazing Grass/Poison defensive typing and access to amazing utility moves in Leech Seed, Corrosive Gas, Sleep Powder and Stun Spore makes this pokémon a perfect bag of tricks.

:guzzlord: B+ -> A- / A

Great defensive typing (and weight) allows it to check top-tier threats such as Sigilyph, Starmie and Copperajah while good offensive stats and coverage makes it a fantastic glue pokémon right now.

:druddigon: C -> C+

Rough Skin punishes U-Turns, Flip Turns and the mighty Copperajah while utility moves such as Glare, Stealth Rock and Taunt allows it to fulfill a great defensive niche. Furthermore, decent 77/90/90 bulk coupled with great defensive Dragon-type lets it sponge hits from common attackers, warranting a spot as an amazing anti-meta pick.

:silvally-ghost: UR -> C / C+

Offensive Ghost-types are amazing right now and Silvally-Ghost wouldn't be different. Access to Swords Dance, ability to sponge Knock Offs and great neutral bulk makes it a fantastic breaker right now, destroying the likes of Copperajah/Vileplume/Mantine cores with ease.

:swirlix: UR -> C
Amazing utility movepool in Magic Coat, Misty Explosion and Endeavor coupled with Sticky Webs makes this pokémon the best webs setter in the metagame, in my opinion, and definitely worthy of a mention on the VR.

I also feel the VR is a bit... clustered? A few pokémon such as Gallade, Cofagrigus and even Stunfisk-Galar just seem out of place, while others like Scrafty and Araquanid are one or two subranks too high for my personal taste.
 
:swirlix: UR -> C
Amazing utility movepool in Magic Coat, Misty Explosion and Endeavor coupled with Sticky Webs makes this pokémon the best webs setter in the metagame, in my opinion, and definitely worthy of a mention on the VR.
While I appreciate the inventiveness of this nom, I really don't see a great reason to use Swirlix when Araquanid exists, which, in addition to having Magic Coat, has an actual offensive presence, bulk, can function outside the lead slot, and is overall far more consistent and useful than Swirlix. On top of all that, webs aren't really a great playstyle to begin with, which sinks the rest of Swirlix's usefulness.

:drapion: B--> B+ To avoid this being an empty post, I'd like to offer up a nom of my own. Drapion really profits from building trends in this meta, particularly Cresselia, Sylveon, and Bronzong being so good right now. Bulky SD sets are great at breaking open common defensive cores, and offer some solid defensive utility by checking prominent threats like CM Cress/Sigi and Zoroark. Though I've yet to experiment with some of Drapion's other possible sets like T-spikes, I think the offensive and defensive possibilities Drapion opens up should put it on the same level as something like Dragalge.
 
I really don't see a great reason to use Swirlix when Araquanid exists, which, in addition to having Magic Coat, has an actual offensive presence, bulk, can function outside the lead slot, and is overall far more consistent and useful than Swirlix.
I do agree Araquanid provides a more durable setupper option for webs, but Swirlix's access to Misty Explosion is an amazing little niche to prevent Defog and Rapid Spin from the likes of Mantine and Blastoise, while Endeavor chips down opposing leads such as Copperajah (which can be hard to do). And the little critter is just cute, how could you NOT love it! :P

:ss/swirlix: edit: I'm currently 16 - 0 with a Swirlix webs team on my NUBS GWDownBad alt, might post replays later.
edit2: replay showcasing Swirlix's utility and power: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1260769833-uveyqvh755rcysdor5q0y58e63l2eo8pw
 
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Ren-chon

as the morning dawns we close our eyes
is a Tiering Contributor
Havent posted here in a while but considering the tier is the most stable (while not being overly repetitive like pre-CT persian meta) its been in pretty much a year, thought Id give it a go and share my opinion about some noms that were thrown here already.

:toxicroak: :machamp: B -> B- / C+
Honestly... Theres just no reason whatsoever to run any of them. Machamp sits at a quite awkward speed tier leaving it outsped by Bewear and Pangoro (if it chooses to go Ada. Jolly seems just bad). The ability to get through Vileplume is nice and all but really not enough imo, considering the two bears can do the same thing with some chip. On the other hand, Toxicroak is the faster out of all 3 fighters nommed to drop, but it does so by sacrificing a LOT of power and not having a good fight STAB. This means more often than not youll need to either rely on your coverage or hope your Gunk Shot is hitting neutral, and to make matters worse it suffers from quite the 4MSS since having to pick between Sucker Punch and Knock Off completely changes the dynamics on what you can or not beat. This isnt really the worst thing as some mons suffer from the same thing (Cress and Copp being the main ones), but Croak just doesnt have the same qualities those other 2 do. All in all, Machamp = hits hard but slower than other mons that hit just as hard. Toxicroak = faster but doesnt hit nearly as hard, and easier to handle in general. Both should drop.

:sirfetchd: Stay B
However, the bird should probably stay B because it actually has some qualities not shared by the other Fight-types. First of all, being able to outspeed Adamant Tyrantrum and Bewear (and Pangoro, obviously) while actually having a higher base attack than those 3 is huge. On top of that, its coverage is actually not bad at all: BB means it can easily get through Vileplume, while First Impression is a great way to handle faster threats that have been chipped, or even Poison Jab if you want to beat Sylveon. Not to mention access to Knock Off and one hella powerful CC. While Scrappy kinda sucks in NU rn considering our Ghost-types arent that hot other than Golurk, being immune to Intimidate also gives it another cool niche with how common Arcanine is getting.

:talonflame: B+ -> A-
Id argue that Talonflame is actually better than Zard, but I havent used nor seen Charizard enough to draw a proper conclusion. The bird, however, is really really good rn. Ill be honest and say that Defog Talon kinda sucks, however pivot sets or even SD are actually so, so good. Pivot Talon can single handely make a mess on non-cleric squads while being insanely fast (seriously, outspeeding Starmie and Salazzle is AMAZING rn) and checking the broken Fight-types, whereas SD can kinda easily clean teams late considering Rock-types arent THAT common and some of our walls, like Sylveon, Mantine, WoW Arcanine and Cress cant really handle it that well. The bird is incredibly versatile and can do pretty much anything you want it to, so definitely should rise.

:cresselia: A -> A+ (or even S, although I think it would be pushing it a bit)
Yes. Like, what else can I say? Playing vs Cresselia is a constant guessing game starting from team preview and going on until you know all 4 of its moves. CM Cress has drastically different counters based on its sets, and the common checks like Zong, Copp, Leech Life Pod and Esca are basically forced to stay healthy (aka no status ailment or chipped) and keep their items, which is a hard task at times considering 3 of those also want to be switching into and checking other stuff. Cress has the potential to sweep any given team, and often just one missplay is enough to make it impossible for your opp to recover in the game even if theyve played the whole match perfectly.

:sigilyph: Stay S
I can see why some people want it to drop, but honestly I feel like Sigi is one of the most polarizing mon rn along with Cress. In fact, I feel like Cress' popularity made people forget just how insanely hard it is to switch into this mon if you dont pack one of the moon dog or Guzz given that even other checks like Starmie and Gastro still take a chunk from Psy(shock/chic). Magic Guard is insane broken on it, allowing for a lot of switching opportunities that other setup threats (like Cresselia or Bewear) could only wish of. Not only that, but I feel the need to point out CM is far from being its only set. Psycho Shift can mess BO teams in the same veins of Pivot Talon, 3 atk is even more of a pain in the ass to switch into, and then some other more niche sets like Trick or Specs. Its a meta defining mon and theres a reason why its being suspected.

:guzzlord: B+ -> A-
Guzz is SO GOOD right now, like really. Checking it is actually a huge pain if you dont have a Sylveon (and even Sylveon gets 2HKOd by Heavy Slam if youre a physical set), and the fact its a Dark-type thats surprisingly durable means it can stick around for a good portion of the game checking shit like mono-Stored Cress or CM Sigi. Not only that, but its about one of the best checks we have for Specs Starmie (another really good mon, although unsure if it should rise), and its movepool is ridiculous: DM, Knock Off, Dark Pulse, Heavy Slam, Outrage, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Heat Crash, Earthquake, Toxic and Dragon Tail are all moves it can run, choosing to go special, physical or mixed. Also, Boots makes this thing impossible to kill js.

:dragalge: :arcanine: B+ -> A-
Dont have much to add that hasnt been yet. Both take advantage of meta trends, are really effective pivots and can cause mayhem in different ways (through poisons or burns for the dog, or Intimidate/WoW (Tox)/TP for arcanine). I feel like theyre actually better than some of the A- mons honestly lol

:mienshao: A+ -> S
I left it as my last one because, honestly, I feel like this could be a bit of a controversial nom (gotta admit even I dont feel it 100%), but Shao is imo on par with Plume in terms of mons that you can stick on any team and just automatically make it better. Its WAY too splashable and does its job better than any other mon in the tier. Nothing can compare to Mienshao in terms of how effective it is as a pivot, and having Regen + UT gives it a Sigi-esche durability and lets you do a lot of safe midgrounds with it because, well, as long as it has at least 1% HP left it can easily get back to full through the match. The popularity of Vileplume kinda hurts its ability to just mindlessly UT, but nevertheless Shao is about the easiest, most splashable Pokémon we have in the tier. Also, as mentioned before, outspeeding Starmie / Lazzle (and even Talon lol) if running Choice Scarf is so so so so good, with the addendum that it can actually effectively handle and kill those (as well as Sigi). So, splashable + does its job better than anyone else + deals with some of the new trends that are gaining popularity should be enough of a combo to at least start a discussion on if it deserves S or not.
 

Mariannabelle

chill guy
is a Tiering Contributor
:Sirfetch - Higher: I think that it's notable for having a higher speed and power tier than comparable fighting wallbreakers like Machamp, Pangoro, and Bewear. With Vileplumes sometimes going itemless for Pangoro and Golurk, being able to use Brave Bird on them is valuable. First Impression provides it a valuable means to check fast attackers like terrain Raichu, weakened Sigilyph, what have you. Don't use Band First Impression; use Leek. That isn't a joke. Random 50% to crit is obviously nice, you get to switch moves, you get to bluff Choice, you get kills you have no business getting, you go through Mudsdale Stamina. At the very least, I consider this mon a step above the likes of Machamp and Scrafty and whatnot.

:Cresselia: - S. Maybe even S+. Cresselia has adapted to basically every generic counterplay option you would expect. Sub and Rest sets get around Toxic, itemless Cresselia nullifies Poltergeist and neuters Knock Off for the most part, CM/Stored Power lets it beat opposing CM attackers, Moonblast + speed blasts Pangoro, Kee Berry means that trying to break it down with Band Arcanine or Copperajah or U-turn spam or whatever doesn't work. Dealing with Cresselia reliably requires extremely specific options from the builder. After adding Cresselia with whatever adaptation to your team, filling the holes in its defense and offense is laughably easy because they're so specific, and Cresselia deserves a ranking that reflects that.

:Goodra: - Higher: Goodra is valuable as a pinch hitter for basically any team, if you ask me. It doesn't need Specs; you can go AV, or Boots, or even Expert Belt or Sitrus (I'm a fan of Expert Belt, myself). Just slap on the coverage for whatever you need to break down. If you need to threaten waters, use Thunderbolt or Power Whip. Diancie? Run Iron Tail. Arcanine? Use Surf. Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Sludge Wave/Bomb. Not much is safe from this mon, and I think people should start getting creative with the coverage this thing has to offer, on top of the raw special bulk it has and a typing that lets it come in on fires, waters, and the like. It even denies Vileplume Strength Sap thanks to Sap Sipper. Sure, one could perceive it as having 4MSS, but that's because the few times you lack the right coverage stay in your mind more clearly than the times they just drop because you hit their entire team super effectively with one mon.

:Sigilyph: - A/A+ I don't think this mon is S-rank worthy, I've already written posts on why I don't think Sigilyph is worth all the hullabaloo.

:Mienshao: S: It's not a coincidence that setup offense consists mostly of slow setup sweepers that rely on their bulk (CM/Psycho Shift Sigilyph, CM Cress, SD Bewear) or priority (CM Comfey) to perform sweeps. After all, why bother running a Dragon Dancer like Flygon or Charizard, or Hone Claws Aerodactyl, or whatever, considering that all of them are just going to be cut short by Scarf Mienshao? Regenerator means that Shao cannot be slowly worn down and taken out for these guys, and Shao's mere presence deters them from setting up for the entire game, nay, adding them to your team in the first place. Close Combat/Knock/U-turn/Stone Edge lets Mienshao protect teams single-handedly from all sorts of offense. The rise of terrain teams that outspeed scarfshao, vileplume to fish for effect spore, and the like are all monuments to Mienshao's effect on the tier and it deserves a rating that reflects that.
 

Rabia

Ganyu my beloved
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GP Co-Leader
:rotom-mow:-> A, maybe A+
Rotom-C is the best pivot in the tier outside of Choice Scarf Mienshao. Because of its STAB Leaf Storm and Will-O-Wisp, none of the Volt Switch deterrents actually deal with it well at all; unless you're playing into Choice Scarf Rotom-C and can predict properly every turn, you're hard pressed to not constantly give up momentum every turn to Rotom-C. This is augmented by the slew of incredibly potent wallbreakers at NU's disposal such as Pangoro, Bewear, and Sigilyph that feast on the common options like Bronzong, Guzzlord, and Dragalge that may try to defensively answer Rotom-C via their bulk and resistances. A- criminally underrates Rotom-C; it should rise next update.

:centiskorch: -> B
Centiskorch has a nice place right now because Talonflame and Charizard frequently forgo a Flying-type attack in favor of utility, coverage, pivoting, or whatever else, which enables it to check them a bit more effectively. It's also a nice answer to several others common Pokemon, including Copperajah, Cresselia, and Sylveon, because of its typing and special bulk. That said, it still struggles a good bit because there are more Pokemon out there now that heavily pressure it, and it can be harder to justify over other wallbreakers that provide comparable defensive utility but take less brainpower to wallbreak with, hence me only suggesting a slight rise.
 
S Rank

S Rank
Copperajah
Bewear
Mienshao

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Cresselia
Pangoro
Sylveon
Vileplume


A Rank

Bronzong
Dragalge
Escavalier
Flygon
Guzzlord
Tyrantrum


A- Rank

Arcanine
Diancie
Golisopod
Golurk
Rotom-Mow
Salazzle
Zoroark

B Rank:

B+ Rank


Charizard
Blastoise
Decidueye
Exploud
West SeaEast Sea Gastrodon
Goodra
Heliolisk
Mantine
Mudsdale
Starmie
Talonflame

B Rank

Aerodactyl
Dhelmise
Comfey
Gigalith
Indeedee-F
Ninjask
Sirfetch'd
Vaporeon
Weezing

B- Rank

Celebi
Centiskorch
Drapion
Espeon
Inteleon
Machamp
Xatu

C Rank:

C+ Rank


Araquanid
:arctovish: Arctovish
:aurorus: Aurorus
Druddigon
Garbodor
Kingdra
Omastar
Raichu-Alola
Roserade
Silvally-Fairy
Silvally-Ghost
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe

C Rank

Archeops
:articuno-galar: Articuno-Galar
:ribombee: Ribombee
:runerigus: Runerigus
:sceptile: Sceptile
Scrafty
Silvally-Steel

C- Rank
:pincurchin: Pincurchin
:sandslash-alola: Sandslash-Alola
:swirlix: Swirlix

Sup, y'all, Swirlix activist Catalisador here to propose a few quick VR changes. As I've stated before, I feel like the current VR seems a bit clustered, a thought a few other players have also agreed on, so here's my proposed tier list. I'll leave some thoughts on my main changes bellow:

:vileplume: In my eyes a clear S tier pokémon thanks to sheer defensive utility and its overwhelmingly powerful presence in the current metagame. I've personally made it "S+" because its RNG-reliant Effect Spore ability is, in my opinion, uncompetitive a times (for example, when I lost the NU League game after a series of right predictions because my +2 Ninjask fell asleep...).

:mienshao: Sheer versatility, utility and power. I think most players would agree this ferret is a real contender for the S tier position.

:cresselia: The lunar duck is extremely versatile and provides incredible defensive value while also providing a secondary win-condition to teams. While I don't particularly think it is quite S tier-worthy as many posts have been claiming, I do agree it deserves a little rise on the VR!

:pangoro: To finish off the Fighting-type trifecta (Mienshao/Bewear/Pangoro), this little panda is deserving of a rise to the A+ tier thanks to its raw power and ability to claim kills with little support and prediction needed.

:dragalge: Extremely consistent pokémon with amazing defensive AND offensive prowess. Definitely worthy of a rise.

:escavalier: I think this pokémon is very underrated right now. It can check a multitude of metagame threats right now such as Vileplume and Cresselia in a single slot while providing utilty in Knock Off, Toxic and, of course, premier defensive typing and stats.

:guzzlord: Another amazing defensive glue with offensive prowess, Guzzlord quickly solidified itself as a top metagame pick and is worthy of the A tier position.

:tyrantrum: I personally think this pokémon is veeery much busted. It simply has no true checks outside Mudsdale and praying Head Smash misses. It is a very consistent breaker and should definitely see a rise.

:arcanine: Top-tier defensive glue, Arcanine checks the mighty Copperajah with ease as well as potent Fighting-type breakers such as Bewear and Mienshao while providing a momentum-grabbing option with Teleport and even a "pseudo-breaker" with its decent coverage, including Extreme Speed.

:comfey: Defensive typing to check the mighty Fighting- and Dragon-types that overrun the NU tier right now while providing momentum in U-Turn and Defog plus priority recovery in Synthesis and Draining Kiss gives this fairy a solid position in the B tier, in my eyes.

:weezing: I think this pokémon is seriously underrated. Being capable of walling Golurk, checking the likes of Vileplume, Mienshao and Pangoro and providing utility options in Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp and more makes Weezing absolutely B tier.

:kingdra: Fairly underrated settuper, can be very good under screens and is definitely better than the C tier options.

:druddigon: Amazing defensive niche to chip down pokémon such as Copperajah and Mienshao while providing utility in Stealth Rock, Glare, Taunt, etc.

:Silvally-Ghost: This pokémon should absolutely be ranked thanks to its ability to setup on common threats such as Vileplume, ability to prevent Rapid Spin and break common fat teams of Sylveon/Vileplume/Copperajah/Mantine, etc.

:Articuno-Galar: Although mostly outclassed by Sigilyph, Competitive and better bulk gives it a niche on some hyper-offensive teams.

:Sceptile: An abuser of terrains, requires a lot of team support but can be good if used correctly.

:Swirlix: Niche webs setter that can prevent removal thanks to Misty Explosion while chipping down the likes of Copperajah with Endeavor. It is also very cute :3.

:sigilyph: Absolutely fantastic pokémon, but it just usually lacks in some department? Either bulk, speed or power. I personally don't think Sigilyph has the same splashability or usefulness of the current S tier pokémon to justify its position.

:charizard: I think it serves a similar niche to Talonflame and its flaws are enough that both are justifiable enough on a team. They should be on the same rank, in my opinion.

:mantine: It loses too much mometum in my opinion and, out of all the A- options, it felt the most out of place.

:starmie: Starmie is an amazing pokémon, but I just think the metagame doesn't quite favour it enough currently to warrant an A- position, With Psychic-type competition from the likes of Sigilyph and Cresselia and a multitude of checks running wild such as Sylveon, Scarf Mienshao, Guzzlord and more, it is just a great pokémon. Not an amazing one, imo.

:espeon: :inteleon: :xatu: I clumped up those three in the same category: screens setters. They all have niches that justify them as setters and should be ranked together. I dropped them a tier, although, as they didn't quite provide as much value as other options in the B tier.

:machamp: Stiff Fighting-type competition means Machamp is harder to justify on teams, but is still solid enough to be B- tier.

:araquanid: It is mainly used for webs and, even then, faces competition from other niche setters. It also didn't provide as much value as other higher-tier options, hence why I it dropped a bit.

:raichu-alola: Electric Terrain, I think, relies a little bit too much on its unpredictability to work as a solid playstyle and, outside terrain, Raichu seems like a subpar option, hence its position as a C+ pokémon.

:roserade: It pains me to place her this low but her inability to deal with our common Steel-types makes Roserade harder to justify on teams.

:silvally-fairy: Facing competition from the likes of Sylveon and Comfey, Silvally-Fairy is still solid but struggles to solidify itself as a top tier threat.

:scrafty: The ?nichest? of fighting-types, Scrafty has very fringe viability and by no means should've been ranked as high as it was before.

Other pokémon were removed from VR because I honestly found no way to justify the classification of the likes of Gallade and Hitmonlee when much better, more consistent options simply outclass them right now. What do y'all think of this little personal tier list? Please give me your thoughts! :)

Edit 01/21/21:
Drops

:vileplume: S+ -> A+ Aight, the hype dropped down a bit and Vileplume is just a great, consistent defensive glue. Its Effect Spore ability's RNG-based scenarios can be quite annoying, but nothing too overwhelming now that the metagame has adapted to it.

:celebi: B+ -> B- Celebi isn't quite as consistent as it was early-meta. It hardly finds any opportunity to setup and, even if it does, if often struggles to break past sturdy defensive cores thanks, partially, to 4MSS.

Rises

:blastoise: SubSS breaks past most of the tier's bulky waters under screens and defensive FlipSpin still provides momentum-grabbing utility and hazard control. A solid option in the current metagame.

:decidueye. A solid attacker with its SD set, Decidueye is quickly rising the ranks and becoming one SS NU's premier wallbreakers.

:garbodor: A solid Spiker with great defensive typing and utility moves in Corrosive Gas, Pain Split, etc. and ways to chip down attackers thanks to Aftermath. Overall an underexplored defensive glue.

UR to Ranked:

:runerigus: Solid defensive typing and the ability to steal Regenerator and Fluffy from Mienshao and Bewear, respectively, thanks to its Wandering Spirit ability makes Runerigus a solid niche Stealth Rocker.

:Ribombee: Solid speed tier and spammable Fairy-type STAB coupled with U-Turn and Trick gives Ribombee a small, underexplored niche.

:arctovish: :vanilluxe: :aurorus: :sandslash-alola: Hail as a whole has proven to be a solid (maybe cheesy) hyper-offensive playstyle, getting solid results from multiple players.

:pincurchin: Terrain setter.
 
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:Silvally-Steel: -> B

I cannot overstate how underrated this thing is. It's not overly complicated, you run Flamethrower/Parting Shot/Multi-Attack/Defog, you run speed for whatever, slap 252HP on and the rest in SpDef, and you have crafted a beautiful specimen. Personally, I run the standard spread from last gen, which actually makes it a better special tank than standard rocks Copperajah and outruns base 60s. But why run it over other steels? Quite a lot actually. For starters, the speed is crucial, getting the jump on many of the slower offensive threats in the meta such as Bewear with minimal investment, as well as being able to 2HKO monsters like Golurk without any investment. Parting Shot is also an excellent tool to safely get out and make said slower breakers much more manageable, as well as making it easier to get your own frailer breakers in. Defog is also nice for bulkier teams that don't want to spam boots. The number of mons that Steelvally rips to shreds are really nice to. Besides the fairies, Steelvally is a nigh perfect counter to Vileplume, as it doesn't care about the common Corrosive Gas, and it gets a free hit against Pangoro and gets out while weakening it. These are qualities that Bronzong and Copperajah wish they had, and that's only naming a few. Does it suck that you can't run a real item or rocks? Sure, but the fact that you aren't deathly afraid of getting your leftovers knocked and you can reliably get the rocks off helps to make up for that. And it's not like its that difficult to find another rocker, such as the aforementioned Golurk or Mudsdale. If you want to be truly pragmatic, Steelvally is simply a reliable, proactive, versatile pivot. It's done what it's always done, and that is valuable in the current meta. It's far from perfect, and you really have to watch out for Cresselia if you choose to run Steelvally, but hey, that's Pokemon for ya. I feel that Steelvally has quite the niche for anyone that wants to pursue it, and its niche is definitely notable enough to warrant it being ranked higher than the likes of Galarian Stunfisk.
 
Hi, I wanted to do some justice to my boi Sceptile here. I wanna argue about the fact that Sceptile should be at the very least a C rank pokemon in terms of a sweeper. I have been testing which pokemon or hazard can support our boi the best, and I can (at the very least) come to a conclusion that Sticky webs are crutial with the specs set. Imma list here some example of the oneshot potential that this mon can have against some pretty important mons regarding the rankings, like Archeops, Machamp, Tyrantrum, Diance, Flygon, etc.

* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Archeops: 390-459 (134 - 157.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Machamp: 210-247 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 313-370 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes (no assault vest)
* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flygon: 328-387 (108.9 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 296-350 (97.3 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
* 252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyrantrum: 417-492 (136.7 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (and d. pulse is also a guaranteed OHKO)

But for all of that to happen, I need some hazard support and of course, you cant have all of that in your team without some sacrifices.

The Dragon Dance set is interesting because you kinda need support as well, but no sticky web needed, since after one single DD you can outspeed even adamant Ninjask and, of course, every single other scarfer in the tier. The only bad thing about this, its that you have to pray to God that you wont get oneshotted by something like Talonflame or some other stuff which grass type is weak to (a lot of stuff). Overall, the DD set has more of a suprise factor than everything else, but still REALLY good if you manage to set up once or even twice. And to boost the power up for a bit you need Life orb, and this will end up dealing actual high damage to a lot of stuff, even neutral hits. Shame sceptile only has 85 base attack.

If you dont like those sets, you have of course the Swords Dance - Unburden set which needs only one or two things depending the type of support you want. If you dont want to waste a slot in your party, go for the Sitrus Berry set with some bulk to resist the incoming attack. If you are willing to have a slot of your party taken away to ensure a bit more this set, you will need a terrain setter which could be Pincurchin (e.terrain), Thwackey (g.terrain) or Indeedee-F (psy.terrain). Out of those 3, I like Indeedee-F the most beacuse the terrain she provides can stop priority moves and she has the biggest power outta them (praise Expanding Force!). This set is pretty much the best or the most consistent of the ones I listead (unless of course you like to spam Leaf Storm or miss Focus Blast with the specs set).

Another set that I really really like is an odd one, but here it is: Work up - Sub - Giga drain - Focus blast
Hear me out, after one single work up sceptile gets its power up to a specs set, which is not bad at all (damn you gamefreak, give it nasty plot already). Anyways, after one of those you get to a good SPA, which of course can oneshot dangerous mons in the tier, like Bewear and Copperajah (which are S tier), Pangoro, Duraludon, Scrafty and more with only its Focus blast (if it lands it). The other move has to be giga drain, for sustain.

Overall, I think this pokemon deserves to be at the very least in the bottom of the viability ranks in the NU list. He has great physical coverage and set up oportunities and it has great Spa to spam one of the strongest grass type attacks in the game. This one deserves to be recognized :)
 
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EonX

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Gonna cover a few things I have experience with as I've been using a couple different teams the past week or so:

: I don't see how Arcanine can't be in an A tier right now. Being able to handle Copper + Bear, which is one of the most common BO cores in the tier, on its own is incredible. Wisp is annoying for sure, but I actually like Toxic so it can kind of just sit on Wisp Talon and cripple Waters, namely Analytic Starmie, Mantine, and ruin non-Rest Cress. Definitely should rise to A-

: I can't speak to SD that much, but I absolutely love the Pivot set to death. Incredible Speed tier, high-powered STABs for when it wants to attack an offensive threat weak to it, and reliable recovery. It's easily one of the most underrated support Pokemon in the tier right now. Flame Body isn't quite as annoying as Effect Spore, but it annoys most physical attackers all the same. Toxic v Wisp can be a tough choice sometimes, but please don't use this for Defog. It just loses hard to Diancie, Gigalith, etc. and a lot of times, it needs to Roost to make sure it stays healthy (the reason I can't put it higher than A- as its bulk is only just good enough) Idk how Zard fares as I haven't really seen or used it for myself, so I won't advocate a swap. But I do feel Talon is A- material.

: Drag in copper meta seems laughable. Drag in a tier where hazard removal is sometimes an afterthought? Monster. It's a bit MU dependent, but Drag is really good against any team that neglects to use Copper. And even teams that do have Copper tend to have to switch to it. Drag is basically the mon to use if you've got a sweeper that doesn't like Copper / Zong as those are really the only 2 mons that always can take a hit. Easy A- material imo.

: While I'm not sold on this for A+, I fully agree with Rabia that A- is too low for this mon. I'd be fully onboard with A+ if Mienshao didn't exist, but Mowtom is still a fantastic pivot mon that a lot of teams struggle at dealing with because of its blend of moves. Preventing this from gaining momentum is a chore and a half. It may not clean teams all that often, but it really capitalizes on how easy it is for NU's breakers to pressure its switch ins. While I wouldn't be opposed to A+, it definitely should rise to A.

: Man, this is tough. Pretty much anyone that knows me knows that I've been one of the leading advocates for Vileplume for over a month now. While it's good that it's getting the love it deserves, it's hard for me to put it in S rank. While, yes, Vileplume is one of the most annoying Pokemon for physical attackers to deal with, the tier is not short on powerful special attackers. The slow rise in Fire-types to handle Bewear and Copperajah doesn't help it much as it's just more threats it has to play carefully against. No item variants can handle stuff like Pangoro, Dhelmise, and Golurk, but that also means Vileplume can't benefit from passive recovery or passive damage via Helmet. Ultimately, it's a top 5 or top 10 Pokemon, but I feel that S rank should be definitive top 5 Pokemon and while Vileplume is incredibly good, I don't think it's definitive top 5 good. So, for now, I feel it should stay in A+ rank (albeit it probably at the top of A+ if it was ordered)
 
:articuno-galar: UR -> C

I've been running the following set during my reqs run:

Articuno-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freezing Glare
- Hurricane
- Ancient Power
- Shadow Ball

When it comes to punishing moves like Mantine's Defog or Vileplume's Strength Sap, there's no better choice than Specs Articuno-Galar. After a boost from Competitive, Articuno reaches over 1000 spa and has no answers without the need to predict. Viz:

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 169-200 (50 - 59.1%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 212 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 182-214 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 246-289 (72.5 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery <- I guess you can run a modest nature if you really care about this

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 391-462 (104.5 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Articuno-Galar is also decently bulky, being able to check threats to offense such as NP salazzle and Inteleon in a pinch. Viz:

+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Articuno-Galar: 277-327 (86.2 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Articuno-Galar: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Articuno-Galar: 261-307 (81.3 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Freezing Glare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Inteleon: 303-357 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Overall, Articuno-Galar is a fine choice for hazard-based offenses.
 

Rabia

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there will be an update shortly after the Sigilyph suspect test's results are announced, so I want to get a few more nominations out there

:drapion: I agree that Drapion should move up; it can consistently deal with Cresselia and in general offers a decent amount of utility between Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, and its defensive properties.

:inteleon: I think offensive Water-types are pretty nice at the moment; running into Mantine or specially defensive Gastrodon can be depressing, but Focus Energy Inteleon only needs to get a single flinch to break past them.

:raichu-alola: This shouldn't be as high as it is given where Pincurchin is ranked; the viability of the two is essentially tied to how good Electric Terrain teams are, and I think moving Alolan Raichu down makes more sense than moving Pincurchin up at this time.

:blastoise: Hyper offense teams are starting to use Shell Smash Blastoise a bit more now, and with Substitute it becomes fairly reasonable to get two Shell Smashes off. Blastoise could do with a rise out of the depths of beyond-niche territory.
 

Meri Berry

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Going to avoid redundant nominations (for the most part), but I'd like to say really quick that I agree with basically everything in Ren-chon's post, and that Talonflame and Charizard should probably swap spots.

:vileplume: Controversially, I'd rather drop this thing to A rank before bumping it up to S. It isn't a reliable check to any of the S rank mons, losing to Copperajah with enough investment or just a little chip and having a very exploitable recovery move in Strength Sap. Additionally, Pokemon such as Golurk that its supposed to check can brute force past it using a simple item change such as Soft Sand, guaranteeing a 2HKO with Earthquake. It's a reliable fighting check to specifically LO and Scarf Mienshao and Pangoro, and that gives it a major niche in the meta warranting a high rank, but it is way too exploitable and lets in too many things (such as Dragalge, Salazzle, Goodra, etc.) without that much of an offensive presence. Even with Corrosive Gas, its supporting role can be exploited, and I've never found Effect Spore to be super overwhelming. I believe this thing should Stay A+, if not drop to A (though I'm not really pushing hard for that).

:articuno-galar: UR -> C/C+: Although I disagree that the best set is Choice Specs, I think that Articuno-Galar has a valid niche on hazard stacking offenses that can't be offered with any other Pokemon in Competitive, pairing it with a decent speed stat and 125 Special Attack. I think that 3 attacks + Recover and 2 attacks + Sub NP are good sets, and that Articuno-Galar is able to capitalize on Competitive boosts to punish an opposing player for trying to remove on it. This niche is not very pronounced in the metagame, but I believe it is at least on the same level as the C tier mons that are currently listed.

:espeon: B -> C/C+: This pokemon is not very good at being an offensive presence, often completely walled by Pokemon such as Copperajah and outclassed by other Psychic types like Sigilyph with no real niche. Its niche comes in the form of Dual Screens, being able to set with Magic Bounce to prevent a Defog while also using Yawn to annoy the opponent. However, Xatu gets this plus the ability to recover and Teleport into a breaker of choice, making it an overall better option. I see very little use for Espeon in this meta, but I'd be satisfied seeing it anywhere below Xatu.

:salazzle: A- -> A: I think this Pokemon is a massive threat in the current metagame, being able to cripple entire teams with Toxic and Knock by putting pressure on massive threats such as Bronzong, Copperajah, and Vileplume and forcing them out. Salazzle's amazing speed tier and sheer ability to spread status makes it an unrivaled threat in fat matchups, and the Nasty Plot set makes it useful even versus Bulky Offense, holding very few defensive answers. The set versatility and the sheer command all of these sets have on most matchups makes this an A rank mon for me.

:blastoise: C+ -> B-/B: After experimenting with screens, I think that Blastoise is one of the best abusers. As Rabia already said, Substitute allows for multiple Shell Smashes with a very low opportunity cost, and its important to note that Modest max speed blastoise outspeeds Scarf Mienshao by 1 point at +2 speed. Even outside of screens, I've seen Blastoise used to Shell Smash, but to also serve as a bulky Flip Turn water type in the absence of Milotic. It doesn't quite fill the role that Milotic had, but it's an adequate substitute with utility of its own.

:kingdra: C -> B-: Focus Energy sets are absolutely ridiculous, being able to kill Pokemon such as Copperajah and Sylveon with just a little chip, and also having the option of Agility to completely sweep through teams. Kingdra isn't that reliable of a breaker by itself, often relying on a setup turn to do reasonable damage, but its able to kill almost any mon slower than it given just a little chip, and with Kingdra's solid speed tier and the lack of Dragon resists that exist outside of Sylveon, I think it deserves the rise.

:decidueye: :drapion: B -> B+: I group these together, not because they are necessarily similar in function but because I think that they're alright mons that look unreasonably good compared to the tier that they're in. Decidueye has Choice Specs sets that pressure most Pokemon outside of Guzzlord, and also Swords Dance sets with strong priority, Long Reach to hit Pokemon like Vileplume and Bewear risk free, and a very useful Ghost typing that isn't very present in the meta. Decidueye also has bulky defog sets, but I don't find these as relevant. Drapion, on the other hand, has two potent offensive sets, one a normal SD set, normally with a resist berry, focused on Knock and Poison Jab as the main moves, and a crit-based Sniper set with Night Slash and Cross Poison along with Focus Lens to try and fish for a 50% crit. These bring a unique Dark type to the table, beating things such as Sylveon and also avoiding being revenged by Pokemon such as Cresselia. Drapion can also provide Toxic Spikes with Knock Off support, overall giivng a positive presence to any hazards team. Both of these Pokemon aren't the best, but they have solidified niches that go above and beyond every other Pokemon in B tier.
 

Rabia

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update time woohoo

rises
:arcanine: B+ -> A- great Bewear check, generally good at spreading status with Toxic and Will-O-Wisp, and a nice pivot with Teleport
:blastoise: C+ -> B Substitute + Shell Smash sets have been rising in popularity on dual screens builds because of Blastoise's natural bulk and ability to set up on status-reliant bulky Water-types like Mantine and Gastrodon
:comfey: B- -> B good defensive Fairy-type that can provide a good amount of utility between absorbing status, pivoting, and removing hazards
:cresselia: A -> S premier wincon with Calm Mind, great at soft checking a lot of wallbreakers in the tier. there are some issues with fitting all the moves you want into its set and has some very defined answers that hold a solid place in the tier, but the positives far outweigh the negatives to using it
:decidueye: B -> B+ great answer to the rising usage of Cresselia in addition to Bewear; Swords Dance Long Reach with Spirit Shackle sets let it beat down these foes despite them being otherwise good answers through moveset techs like Kee Berry Cresselia and well, standard Bewear with Fluffy
:dragalge: B+ -> A- premier pivot that supports the Fighting-type wallbreakers really well with Flip Turn, generally great wallbreaker with Choice Specs as well
:drapion: B -> B+ great answer to Cresselia, can provide an immense amount of support with the utility set (Taunt/WW/Knock/TSpikes) and also has potent Swords Dance sets
:guzzlord: B+ -> A- even in lieu of Sigilyph leaving, it still offers a lot defensively between checking non-Moonblast Cresselia and Ghost-types like Dhelmise and Decidueye. STAB Choice Band Knock Off is also unfair
:kingdra: C -> C+ CritDra
:mienshao: A+ -> S Life Orb Mienshao has surged in usage lately; it's incredibly hard to wear down because of Regenerator, still maintains a lot of Choice Scarf sets' utility with Knock Off and U-turn. Swords Dance sets also very dangerous
:pincurchin: C -> C+ rising to better reflect Electric Terrain's viability
:rotom-mow: A- -> A premier pivot because its Volt Switch is super duper hard to block because of the threat of Will-O-Wisp and STAB Leaf Storm; both Defog and Choice Scarf are great sets, and Nasty Plot can still be threatening too
:salazzle: A- -> A Knock Off + Toxic sets are really great at supporting their team, and Focus Sash sets with Nasty Plot can give common revenge killers like Mienshao and Flygon headaches
:talonflame: B+ -> A- amazing pivot, super fast and provides a lot of utility between U-turn, Defog, and status, also can burn fish with Flame Body and soft check foes like Copperajah, Bewear, and Mienshao lol
:weezing: C -> C+ Neutralizing Gas + Rocky Helmet = Mienshao now take damage when pivot :)

drops
:araquanid: B- -> C+ question marks about if it's even the best Sticky Web setter (Vikavolt), still a fine overall option but not really seen enough to warrant its ranking anymore
:charizard: A- -> B Talonflame is just better; the only real niche Charizard has is more immediately forcing damage onto foes like Dragalge with Scorching Sands, but otherwise Talonflame offers more to teams between U-turn and its Speed tier
:espeon: B -> B- Xatu is the superior dual screens setter as a result of Teleport; we didn't drop Espeon too far because it's still a fine setter for all intents and purposes, and there might be something to offensive sets/Trick with a Choice item sets
:machamp: B -> C+ why would I use it? it's outdone as a wallbreaker much of the time by the big three Fighting-types, and even defensively Bewear just offers more at this point in time
:scrafty: B -> C+ Dragon Dance sets are a lot slower relative to previous metas, and Comfey + Sylveon usage in addition to the prominence of Fighting-types like Bewear that can set up alongside it gives Bulk Up sets a bit more hassle
:toxicroak: B -> B- still a fine defensive core breaker but has less relevant defensive utility compared to previous eras

new
:arctovish: UR -> C hail teams are not completely horrid, and this is the best wallbreaker on them
:articuno-galar: UR -> C better than it was in Sigilyph meta, also a good pick on hazard-centric builds
:aurorus: UR -> C hail setter, Stealth Rock + Encore good utility
:runerigus: UR -> C Wandering Spirit lets it steal Regenerator from Mienshao and force Rocky Helmet chip
:sceptile: UR -> C it's a good sweeper on (Psychic) Terrain teams
:silvally:(ghost) UR -> C Ghost-resistant Pokemon are largely limited right now to Bewear and Guzzlord (and other generally easy to beat ones), so Silvally-Ghost has a rather high ceiling in most games because you very well might queue into a team that can't resist Multi-Attack
:vanilluxe: UR -> C hail setter, good enough breaker

unranked
:druddigon: not really used, probably has some niche with Glare but meh
 

Rabia

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discussion points
:celebi: -> lower
sort of limited by the commonness of Bronzong and Copperajah and faces immense competition from Cresselia as a setup Psychic-type. it definitely has a lot of possible sets and variants within such sets that should be explored further, but it hasn't had a lot of great success so far

:talonflame: -> higher
we just rose it to A-, but Talonflame has really risen because of all it brings to the table as one of the best general utility Pokemon in the tier.

:heliolisk: -> lower
on paper its coverage lets it be an absolute menace, but the large amount of generally bulky special walls can relegate it to being just a Volt Switch spammer. that isn't necessarily bad given it synergizes super well with the popular Fighting-types, but it's something to note when considering Heliolisk's overall potency
 

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