GSC In-Game Tier List Mark V

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
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as I said, running on an emulator is incredibly easy, so didn't take me long to finish this run.

My team was originally Graveler / Gengar / Espeon / Red Gyarados. I was swimming in Exp. after Morty, though, so I decided to add Lapras to my team too. Had to grind for Clair for a bit (though it was mostly Espeon / Gyarados) and used a few candies on Gyarados after Clair so I could give more Exp. to my other teammates.

Espeon was used with the assumption that you don't restart the clock in any way to abuse the haircut brothers (is it even possible? I'd imagine yes, but I don't really know how the mechancis work, so...). This is probably better anyways, as you want to get Bite before evolving and the damage output of Return vs STAB Headbutt is very minimal, so you don't change a lot of matchups anyways.

Logs:

Graveler

Falkner(11): Rock Throw OHKOs everything, only watch out for Mud-slap

Bugsy(17): Rock Throw spam wins, has to be obvious

Silver(18): beats Gastly and Zubat. Avoid Bayleef

Whitney(21): DCurl, then use Rollout, which will end the fight in like three turns if you don't miss whatsoever

Silver(23): beats everything but Bayleef

Morty(25): Magnitude should be able to OHKO everything, though Gengar probably requires a higher number. You are outsped by everything, so it comes down to Hypnosis missing

Chuck(31): Magnitude 6 2HKOs Primeape, with 9 OHKOing. Poliwrath is lol

Jasmine(31): beats Magnemite

Pryce(31): Icy Wind prevents you from doing much, beyond beating Seel

Silver(33): Rock Throw 2HKOs Sneasel and Golbat. Magnitude covers Haunter and Magnemite. Avoid Meganium

Clair(38): Water / Ice coverage everywhere !!!

Silver(40): EQ OHKOs Magneton, Kadabra, and Haunter. Rock Throw 2HKOs Sneasel and Golbat, though the latter is annoying with hax

Will(41): yeah no, you are outsped often and everything hits with special attacks. Don't bother

Koga(41): EQ OHKOs Muk. Rock Throw 2HKOs Ariados, watch out for Giga Drain. Against Forry, you can try to set up a Curlout, which will be able to kill everything if it never misses.

Bruno(41): even with DCurl to the max, you are beating only Hitmontop and Hitmonlee without resorting to healing, probably Onix too, if you keep Graveler out against Machamp and Hitmonchan

Karen(41): EQ OHKOs Houndoom and Gengar


Falkner(13): nope

Bugsy(17): Curse on Scyther and let it die. Fury Cutter deals exactly one HP on the first try, so you can even put it to sleep just to be on the safe side or just spam Lick and hope for lucky palaysis.

Silver(19): Curse on Bayleef and spam Lick on it and Gastly as well to win. You can put Bayleef to sleep for safety measures

Whitney(21): Curse + Hypnosis helps greatly against Miltank

Silver(22): Night Shade gets past Magnemite and Curse cna be useful for Bayleef. Zubat has Bite, Haunter can be beaten with Hypnosis to prevent Curse

Morty(25): Magnet Thunder Punch 3HKOs Gengar, OHKOs Gastly, and 2HKOs Haunter. However, you outspeed all of them, so you may be able to pull off some of Morty's tricks on him and put them to sleep with Hypnosis. Even if you don't, you can get by most of his team as long as you aren't put to sleep yourself

Chuck(30): Magnet Thunder Punch 2HKOs both, easy sweep

Jasmine(30/31): Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Steelix. Steelix goes for Screech turn one, giving you an easy win

Pryce(31): Thunder Punch covers Seel line, Fire Punch 2HKOs Piloswine, easy sweep

Silver(33): Shadow Ball OHKOs Haunter and appropriate elemental punch OHKOs or 2HKOs the rest, easy sweep

Clair(38): NMI Ice Punch OHKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra. You outspeed everything, but Kingdra 2HKOs with Surf. Great matchup, nevertheless

Silver(40): super effective Shadow Ball or elemental punch OHKOs everything bar Meganium, which doesn't do anything in return. Amazing matchup

Will(40): NMI Ice Punch OHKOs Xatu and 2HKOs Exeggutor. Shadow Ball OHKOs Jynx. Thunder Punch + Shadow Ball 2HKO Slowbro. You outspeed all. Exeggutor OHKOs with Psychic, while Slowbro fails to OHKO (leaves you at red, may be a roll?), so you can take out 4/5 of his team with little issue.

Koga(41): Charcoal Fire Punch 2HKOs Moth and OHKOs the other Bugs. Avoid Muk, unless you are fine with muscling through Minimize. Crobat is 2HKOed by Ice Punch and 3HKOs with Wing Attack, only watch out for evasion

Bruno(41): beats Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, and Onix. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Lee and 3HKOs Chan, while Ice Punch kills Onix

Karen(41): beats Murkrow, Gengar, and Vileplume

Lance(42/43): Thunder Punch OHKOs Gyarados on rolls, which goes for Rain Dance turn one (per constant tests on Gengar). Outspeeds and OHKO Lv. 47 Dragonite with NMI Ice Punch. It seems like it's a rolls if you are not holding NMI, but if you are, it seems guaranteed, as I tried NMI Ice Punch at least 20 times and never failed to OHKO. Aero 3HKOs with Rock Slide, but might be a roll, while Ice Punch 2HKOs. Zard is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch and it 2HKOs with Flamethrower. Lv. 50 is OHKOed on rolls by NMI Ice Punch. However, it is outsped and it goes for Safeguard turn one. Furthermore, Outrage leaves Gengar in lower yellow, so you can live one if you are healthy enough.

As a whole, you can kill the Dragonites safely. Gyarados can be beaten with no damage taken if you are willing to depend on Rain Dance turn one. If you beat Lv. 50 Dragonite and are still at full health, you get the luxury of beating Zard too. All in all, amazing matchup


Silver(22): PB Headbutt 2HKOs Zubat. At most, you can Mud-slap Magnemte and Haunter. Bayleef is 4HKOed, but Reflect screws you up

Morty(25): nah. Maybe Mud-slap could help it be not totally useless, but I wouldn't classify that as a good matchup anyways, so...

Chuck(31): PB Headbutt 2HKOs Primeape and 4HKOs Poliwrath. Funnily, sweeping is actually possible if you get lucky enough

Jasmine(31): Mud-slap, anyone? That's about the only thing you can do here. Btw, still an Eevee

Pryce(32): PB Headbutt 2HKOs Seel and 4HKOs Dewgong. If Dewgong goes for Rest on the turn you put it at red, you can put it in red and KO with Quick Attack before it heals again. Piloswine beats you

Silver(32): its only 2HKO here is Haunter with Shadow Ball. The rest tends to avoid a 3HKO, so take a guess as to how great the matchup is

Clair(38): Psybeam 2HKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra, outspeeding all. However, you get paralyzed by Dragonair and you are 2HKOed by Hyper Beam, so a sweep here is impossible, though you can take out around two Dragonairs at worst if you aren't unlucky as hell.

Silver(40): PB Return 2HKOs Sneasel. Psybeam OHKOs Golbat and Haunter and 3HKOs Meganium. Shadow Ball OHKOs Kadabra.

Will(40): Bite 2HKOs everything, with Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKOing Jynx. You outspeed everything. Hax is about the only issue you have here and Bite flinches make this more manageable.

Koga(40): Psybeam OHKOs Ariados and 2HKOs the other Poisons, though Moth might be a roll for an OHKO. Muk 2HKOs on rolls with Sludge Bomb, so gl there. As a whole, not a bad matchup, but it could be better for a Psychic type.

Bruno(41): Psybeam 2HKOs everything while outspeeding. You won't be able to sweep, but you can decide what you beat. Machamp 3HKOs with Rock Slide, for reference.

Karen(41): beats Gengar and Vileplume


Chuck(31): MW Surf 2HKOs Primeape. Strength 3HKOs Poliwrath, which is annoying at best due to confusion or sleep

Jasmine(31): beats Steelix. Magnemite lives a Surf and Thunderbolts you

Pryce(32): Strength 2HKOs and 3HKOs Seel and Dewgong and Surf 2HKOs Piloswine. You have no problems here

Silver(32/33): can get through most of his team with no problems, only avoid Meganium. Magnemite is OHKOed by MW Surf.

Clair(38): outspeeds everything. PB Strength 2HKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra. Watch out for the Thunderbolt Dragonair. Kingdra 5HKOs with Dragonbreath (you can use Leer to avoid the healing spam). Kingdra's only an issue if it goes for Smokescreen or you are too damaged. Otherwise, you can beat it. You will need to heal off paralysis if you are planning on using Gyara for anything that is not 1v1ing Kingdra

Silver(40): PB Strength 2HKOs Sneasel and Golbat and OHKOs Kadabra. Surf 2HKOs Magneton and Haunter, avoid the former. Meganium can be muscled through, but Reflect + Poisonpowder takes a toll on Gyara's health.

Will(41): PB Strength OHKOs Jynx and 2HKOs Xatu, outspeeding all. Can also muscle through Slowbro. If you didn't take on Slowbro, you won't need to heal to beat Jynx and Xatu

Koga(41): PB Strength 2HKOs Ariados and Venomoth and Surf 3HKOs Forry. Crobat is 3HKOed by Strength, but goes for evasion, seems to be the same for Muk.

Bruno(41): outspeeds all. PB Strength 2HKOs the Hitmons and Surf OHKOs Onix. Avoid Machamp.

Karen(41): PB Strength can be used to get past Vileplume and Murkrow. Gengar is 3HKOed by Surf and Houndoom is 2HKOed, but beats you if you've taken some damage from previous mons.

Lance(41): it gets barraged by Hyper Beams constantly and it fails to 2HKO with Strength (though Surf helps against Zard/Aero, though the latter will simply Rock you to death)


Chuck(31): MW Surf 2HKOs Primeape. Body Slam 4HKOs Poliwrath. You need Sing luck to win here or Thunderdance (I didn't try it because I am dumb)

Jasmine(31): MW Surf OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Steelix, easy sweep

Pryce(31): Body Slam 2HKOs and 3HKOs Seel and Dewgong and Surf covers Piloswine, easy sweep

Silver(33): MW Surf OHKOs Haunter and Magnemite and 2HKOs Golbat and Sneasel. Beyond some hax, nothing threatens you heavily

Clair(38): outspeeds all the Dragonair and OHKOs them with NMI Ice Beam. Kingdra is 3HKOed and seems to 5HKO with Dragonbreath. Smokescreen is by far the biggest issue. Great matchup

Silver(40): set up rain against Sneasel and OHKO it, Magneton, and Haunter with Surf. Kadabra dies to Body Slam. The rest are OHKOed by NMI Ice Beam

Will(41): NMI Ice Beam OHKOs Xatu and Eggy, though Xatu is faster. Body Slam 2HKOs Jynx, but you are dealing with hax here, so avoid it.

Koga(41): MW Surf in rain OHKOs Ariados and 2HKOs Moth. Surf 2HKOs Forry. Ice Beam puts Crobat in red.

Bruno(41); beats only Onix and Hitmontop

Karen(41): NMI Ice Beam OHKOs Murkrow and Vileplume. Surf 2HKOs Houndoom, which 3HKOs even if you took an attack from Murkrow

Lance(41/42/43): Thunder OHKOs Gyarados, Surf 2HKOs Charizard, and NMI Ice Beam OHKOs the rest. Lv. 47 DNites 3HKO with Hyper Beam, Thunder one 2HKOs with... Thunder. Aero 2HKOs with Ancient Power, Zard seems to 3HKO with Flamethrower, and Lv. 50 Dragonite 2HKOs with Hyper Beam. Matchup requires some healing, but given this is Lance, I rate this a good matchup


thoughts:

Graveler
Honestly, just merge it with Golem. Having used both, I fail to point at any significant difference between both. In fact, I read my logs for both and I pretty much felt like I am reading the same thing twice. Both are great early-game (including against Morty if you don't get hit by Hypnosis) but take a toll later on. E4 performance is slightly shaky, though it can be useful for Koga and Karen's Houndoom. Both are fine in A imo, given the massive early-game performance + Med. Slow growth rate making it a low-investment Pokemon, though Curlout reliance + shaky end-game are certainly worrying.

Gastly (Trade)
So let's start debunking some myths here, shall we? The Gastly period isn't *too bad*. So, don't get me wrong, I am not saying it's good or something. I just feel like it's slightly exaggarated. First, Gastly is only truly bad against Normal-types (and maybe the Union Cave Onix trainer too?) since it cannot damage them with Lick. Everything else struggles to hit Gastly hard, so it can muscle through them, albeit it will rarely 2HKO (or even 3HKO). Second, Med Slow growth rate means that Gastly is getting through that stage particularly quickly. Finally, Curse + Hypnosis make it useful for Scyther and Miltank, not to mention that Gastly can be incredibly useful for Silver if you picked Totodile, since it can just Curse on Bayleef. I think the Burned Tower rival fight and Falkner are the only times I felt the matchup wasn't great and for the Burned Tower fight, you can theoritically overlevel there and have a Gengar there anyways. Let's move on to the Gengar phase, now that I explained why I don't think the Gastly period is too bad.

Gengar can be equipped with all elemental punches rather easily. I recommend giving it Shadow Ball as well, as it's very useful for hitting Kadabra / Haunter when facing Silver, along with anything else you perceive as specially bulky. Once you get to Gengar, it pretty much has no bad matchups whatsoever. It won't sweep everything, as seen against Morty, Clair, and most of the E4, but it sweeps Gyms 5-7 (which, tbh, isn't that hard, from experience, though 2HKOing or OHKOing everything there is nice), along with Silver fights afterwards, and it tends to kill at least three mons from all the teams of the opponents I mentioned anyways.

My amazement with Gengar came up while facing Clair and Lance. Clair had her Dragonairs demolished completely by Gengar and her Kingdra was weakened by my Gengar, even if Gengar lost the 1v1. Lance was an amazing matchup; I tested him multiple times and my results were positive. You can take on the Lv. 47 DNites with no problems, Lv. 50 is also not hard, but potentially risky, and you can even beat Gyarados and Zard in one go in some more optimal scenarios. Against Lance, it is possible to beat 5/6 of his team in one go if some things go according to your plan.

Personally, I really want to say A-tier on Gengar. Gastly period is certainly not a great thing, but I felt like it wasn't enough to hold back Gengar and its all-around strong performance. I could live with B, though, if people decide that the Gastly period is too bad for Gengar as a whole. So A / B, heavily leaning towards A myself, though.

Eevee (Espeon)
Easy D-tier for me. Eevee / Espeon won't be doing anything against Gyms 4-7 that I'd classify as relevant enough. Espeon gains some usability in the end-game, 2HKOing Clair's Dragonair and getting some kills at the E4, but... it won't really sweep anything either. Psybeam cannot OHKO anything on Bruno's team, so you are bound to be weakened till Espeon faints. Koga, likewise, can live at least one Psybeam with most of his Pokemon. Will was a pleasant matchup with Bite, though, 2HKOing everything. All in all, Espeon isn't that amazing at the E4 and it's certainly not great before that either, so leaning towards D-tier. I might be harsh on it, though.

Speaking of Eeveelutions, can I just nominate Umbreon to E? Dark typing is only useful for Will and, knowing its offensive stats, it's unlikely to perform well there either (it's not like it performs well against him in HGSS). And gl using that thing on the other fights when you hit like a wet noodle. Obviously, someone may have to test it, but I have used Umbreon in other games and no matter how often you could say to yourself "oh come on, it can't be that bad", you always find out that, yes, it is that bad.

Gyarados
Strongest points of Gyarados are:

1) high join level, which can help mitigate the Slow growth rate
2) role compression

as for role compression, it's simple; you can TM it Strength and the three Water HMs and Gyarados's performance won't be heavily impacted. In terms of performance, Gyarados is mostly okay. It won't really sweep any fight beyond Chuck and Pryce, but I don't think I've ever found it useless in any. PB Strength deals respectable damage, often 2HKOing even at the Elite Four. I am gonna be honest, I didn't feel too impressed by Gyarados. As a whole, the main reason you'd want to use Gyara is cause you can just stick up four HMs on it and still perform well. B-tier at worst, maybe A-tier (but not S whatsoever). Honestly, I'd be supporting A-tier a lot more if it wasn't for the fact that Gyarados's Special Attack is pretty low.

Lapras
Lapras's biggest issue, other than coming after four badges, is the backtrack you have to do to get it. Granted, you can use your Bicycle and repels to get to that part of the Union Cave relatively quickly, but still not ideal. Lapras felt all-around great; I didn't try Thunderdance on Poliwrath, but it could probably win with that. It had no problems against Jasmine and Pryce and the ability to outspeed and OHKO all of Clair's Dragonair was certainly appreciated. Its E4 performance was relatively good, only performing badly against Bruno. Lance is a matchup that requires a bit of an investment, but Lapras can take on Dragonite quite easily. I want to say B-tier, but A might be possible, it felt like a better Gyarados, for most parts. Slow growth rate has to be mentioned, before I close this off.

I am planning on doing another run before I stop for some time. Reason for stopping is mostly so I don't flood the thread with exclusively my logs and runs, though I may chime in more often if this thread is more active so the flooding doesn't happen. Planning on using Wooper, Snubbull, Vaporeon, and Chinchou.
 

I felt like doing a Crystal playthrough to unwind and decided to contribute while I'm at it. I'm trying out Caterpie, Magnemite and Sudowoodo with Totodile to carry if needed. I'm skipping logging Totodile because it's already going to be covered well.

Only reached Ecruteak City so far, so Magnemite and Sudowoodo only have a Morty log (beat Rival 3 with Butterfree and saved before I thought to test the other two). So far, Sudowoodo has been alright, Magnemite has been disappointing but I haven't finished its set (need Rest), Caterpie (G/C) however has been surprisingly good even with subpar DVs outside of Defense. It's early yet so it could easily drop off in performance, but the moveset it gets early on might be enough to carry it all the way to Lance.

Falkner:
Butterfree (10-Berry): Hardened to 4x Defense on Pidgey to be able to tank Pidgeotto's Gust, took down Pidgey with 2 Confusions, ate Berry, then took out Pidgeotto with 4 Confusions.

Rival 2:
Butterfree (16): Confusion OHKOs Gastly, 2HKOs Zubat, 7HKOs Bayleef. Bayleef can barely damage Butterfree. Sleep Powder not needed. Easy sweep.

Bugsy:
Butterfree (16): Confusion 3HKOs Metapod, nearly OHKOs Kakuna, 6HKOs Scyther. Scyther can KO Butterfree if left to power up Fury Cutter, but Sleep Powder shuts it down. Easy sweep.

Whitney:
Butterfree (19): Confusion 5HKOs Clefairy, 7HKOs Miltank. Putting Clefairy to sleep then Hardening to 4x Defense makes Butterfree able to stomach low power Rollouts while trying to put it to sleep, then can layer Supersonic + Sleep to make it difficult for Miltank to wake up and Milk Drink/build up Roll Outs before getting put back to sleep or KO'd. Butterfree should eventually break through Miltank barring bad RNG.

Rival 3:
Butterfree (21): Easily dispatches Haunter with Sleep + Confusion after Haunter takes out half its HP with Curse (quick switch back and forth removed Curse), Magnemite is eliminated by using Sleep Powder when Magnemite is awake, Nightmare once it is asleep, and Confusion when Nightmare is set up, Zubat is easily 2HKO'd, Bayleef is easily dispatched with the same Sleep Powder > Nightmare > Confusion combo used against Magnemite, though it probably didn't even need to do that. I had to use a couple potions after messing up against Magnemite and taking a couple unnecessary Thunder Shocks, but otherwise a comfortable sweep.

Morty:
Butterfree (22): 2HKOs Gastly & L21 Haunter, 4HKOs Gengar, 2-3HKOs L23 Haunter. Fairly easy win as long as Gengar doesn't get to use Dream Eater (Hypnosis misses / Awakenings) before Butterfree lands Sleep Powder and Butterfree switches out after being Cursed.
Basically, broken Sleep strategies are carrying Butterfree so much that it's holding its own at Goldenrod and beyond, despite atsync's analysis in Colonel M's old In Game Tier List thread. He was right about it being a good early game partner to Totodile, though. Rival 2 especially was a cakewalk.

I think Caterpie (G/C) and Caterpie (S) might make sense to rate separately. Although Butterfree can be obtained in Silver, it has numerous major issues. Caterpie (G/C) is obtainable early on near Sprout Tower which makes it easier to grind, stomps Well Rockets/Rival 2/Bugsy, and with Harden obtained as part of the process, has the tools to beat Whitney. With Sleep Powder being critical to Butterfree's usability, you can't just grab the L18 Contest Caterpie to catch up, since Butterfree only learns Sleep Powder at L15. This means Caterpie/Metapod/Butterfree (S) needs several levels of grinding to be usable, and has already missed out on EVs and its early game value against Rival 2/Bugsy, making it a clear step down from Caterpie (G/C).

The biggest problem it has had is the initial grind, though I forgot that Sprout Tower was full of Bellsprout Sages until after I had already evolved it into Metapod and it would've been easier to level up Caterpie there to start with. I was pretty shocked at Butterfree managing to deal with Falkner's Pidgey & Gust Pidgeotto solo just after evolving, and even moreso seeing it actually managing to solo Whitney while underleveled. After that, a slight detour after Sudowoodo lets you deliver the mail to the guy on Route 31 and obtain Nightmare, which helps Butterfree bust Psychic resists like Rival's Magnemite, and will be very important against Will, Karen and Rival's Sneasel & Kadabra.

Right now it has Sleep Powder / Confusion / Nightmare / Harden. So far, the only resources it has required are TM50 (Nightmare) and a Berry for Falkner, barely costing the player anything. Dropping Supersonic instead of Harden might've been a mistake, but I think Harden might be necessary for Butterfree to have a chance to survive Lance's Aerodactyl. From where I stopped, Chuck should be an easy win for Butterfree. Pryce should be manageable, but I'm dreading Jasmine. 3 Steels, 2 with Thunderbolt and one with Rock Throw is going to be one of Butterfree's toughest fights. Clair, Rival and the first 3 Elite 4 members shouldn't be much trouble but Karen's Houndoom and Lance's Aerodactyl are going to be extremely tough for Butterfree to try to solo at near equal levels.

Still got a ways to go, though after this is done I might go back and do a Flail Farfetch'd (Crystal) run. The investment it requires is kind of ridiculous-- level up a male Phanpy to L17, get past Sudowoodo and go all the way to Route 43 to get access to a female Farfetch'd, go back to Goldenrod, breed a Flailfetch'd, hatch it, power level it to teach it Swords Dance and Agility, and give it Endure. But once you do get it, all you need is a turn or maybe two to setup, Endure, and...

+2 Lvl 30 Pink Bow Farfetch’d Flail (200 BP) vs. Lvl 30 Magnemite: 90-90 (109.7 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 Lvl 47 Pink Bow Farfetch’d Flail (200 BP) vs. Lvl 50 Dragonite: 198-198 (100.5 - 100.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Might be worth trying.
 
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I'll try to use a team with Totodile, Spearow, Mareep, Sudowoodo, Exeggcute and Gyarados

I expect Totodile to be close to S-tier but still in A-tier (especially after reading the thread), Spearow in A-tier too, Mareep will be interesting and possibly A-tier after reading Ryota post, Sudowoodo probably in B or C, Exegcutte in C/D and Gyarados possibly in B.
 
I'll try to use a team with Totodile, Spearow, Mareep, Sudowoodo, Exeggcute and Gyarados

I expect Totodile to be close to S-tier but still in A-tier (especially after reading the thread), Spearow in A-tier too, Mareep will be interesting and possibly A-tier after reading Ryota post, Sudowoodo probably in B or C, Exegcutte in C/D and Gyarados possibly in B.
Note that the OP states that 4 is optimal. You are free to do what you wish.
 
Falkner (12) : Rage 3HKOes Pidgey and 2HKO Pidgeotto. Easy win with half HP remaining
Bugsy (18) : Rage 5Hkoes Metapod, which uses Harden twice, 2hkoes Kakuna and then 2hkoes Scyther (or is a range if it misses fury cutter. Solid win
Silver 2 (18) : Water Gun 2HKOes Gastly that can't do much back but Macronium is 4HKOed by Fury Cutter, almost always uses Reflect or Poison Powder, speed ties and 2HKO with Razor Leaf. Unless unluck with confusion, Zuba is free as you 2HKO with Water Gun.
Whitney (21) : Fury Cutter 4HKOes Clefairy and 2HKOes Miltank but you have to hit every attack otherwise Miltank is going to ko. Winnable but not reliable
Silver 3(22) : Bite 2HKOes Haunter, Surf 2HKOes Magnemite, which uses Supersonic, 4HKO Bayleef with Fairy Cutter and 2HKO Zubat with Surf. Between the possible Curse, PoisonPowder and Bayleef it's hard to win.
Mortimer (25) : Outspeed and OHKO first Gastly with Bite, 2HKO Haunters, 3HKO Gengar. Depends of moves but winnable, albeit requires luck.
Chuck (30) : Outspeed and 2HKO Primeape. Poliwrath is a 4HKO. Winnable but really luck reliant.
Jasmine (32) : Magnemite are a range with Mystic Water and Surf. Steelix is 2HKOed (but 3HKOed after Sunny Day but it only has Iron Tail). Quite good matchup.
Pryce (32) : 2HKO Seel, 3HKO Dewgong and outspeed Piloswine despite Icy Wind drop and OHKO. Perfect match.
Clair (38) :Dragonair are 2HKOed but para and the second one has Thunderbolt. Kingdra is 3HKOed so it can be beaten 1v1 but Ferraligatr won't beat more than Kingdra and potentially a Dragonair.
Silver 4 (40) : 2HKO Sneasel, 2HKO Magneton which paralyses, 2HKO Meganium, outspeed and OHKO Haunter and Kadabra and 2HKO Golbat. Quite good as long as Magneton is avoided.
Will (41) : Xatu one outspeeds and Psyhic does a third and Ice Punch 2HKOes it. Exeggutor is a 2HKO with Ice Punch and does a lot with Psychic. Jynx outspeeds and does a third with Psychic, like Xatu 2. Slowbro does the same amount with Psychic and is only 3HKOed. It might be my IVs but it's not a great performance.
Koga (41) : Ariados, Venomoth and Foretress are outsped and 2HKOed. Muk is 3HKOed by Surf and Crobat too. Can be rough due to Double Team and Toxic but good overall.
Bruno (41) : Hitmon are 3HKOed. You can take down the three hitmon and Onix, outspeeding them but Machamp is too much.
Karen (42) : 4HKO Umbreon, 2HKO Vileplume while it 2HKOes with Petal Dance, 2HKO Gengar when Lick does nothing, 2HKO Murkrow. Houndoom does a lot with Crunch but you win 1vs1. You can take down up to 3 mons or Houndoom. Should sweep with a Full Restore.
Lance (43) : Gyara is 4HKOed by Strength (I guess Return would 3HKO tho), Dragonite 1 is too troublesome with Thunder, Dragonite 2 is beatable even tho you need health to take Hyper Beam. Dragonite 3 is going to overwhelm although you win 1v1. You can take down both Aeroadactyl and Charizard without trouble. Does massive damages with a Full Restore.


Bugsy (17) :Thundershock 2hkoes everything, you easily take 2 Fury Cutter from Scyther and Metapod/Kakuna barely damages you. Easy win
Silver 2 (18) : Thundershock 2Hkoes Gastly that barely does damages but Bayleef is only 8HKOed by Tackle and unless extreme luck with Thunder Wave will be really hard to kill. Zubat outspeeds but is 2HKOed by Thundershock.
Whitney (20) : Thunderpunch 2HKOes Clefairy and it 3HKOes Miltank that 3HKOes with Rollout. Not good as you rely on misses.
Silver 3 (22) : 2HKOes Haunter with Thunderpunch, OHKO Magnemite with FirePunch, 2HKO Bayleef with Fire Punch which outspeeds. Solid win and the best member of the team for this fight.
Mortimer (25) : Gastly outspeeds and always Curse. Gengar is 3HKOed by ThunderPunch and 2HKOes with DreamEater. Haunter are 2HKOed by ThunderPunch
Chuck (30) : 2HKO both mons, luck reliant but winnable.
Jasmine (32) : perfect matchup, outspeed and OHKO Magnemite, 2HKO Steelix that doesn't do anything else.
Pryce (33) : outspeed everything, OHKO Seel and 2HKO Dewgong and Piloswine that won't do much back so it's an easy win.
Silver 4 (34) : 2HKO Golbat, OHKO Magnemite, 3HKO Meganium, which 3HKOes back, outspeed and range to OHKO Haunter, 2HKO Sneasel which outspeeds. Winnable with few HP but needs the right moves
Claire (38) : Dragonair are a pain to deal ith but Kingdra is 3HKOed and even Hyper Beam doesn't do half. It can 3HKO but it won't always attack and you can always paralyse it.
Silver 5 (40) : OHKO Sneasel, outspeed and ko Magneton, ko Haunter, 2HKO Kadabra, 2HKO Meganium and OHKO Golbat. Clear win without healing.
Will (41) : OHKO Xatu 1 with Thunderpunch. Avoid Jynx that is 2HKOed and does a lot. Slowbro is 2HKOed and uses Curse. Exeggutor is outsped and 2HKOed by Fire Punch. Xatu 2 is OHKOed by ThunderPunch. Quite good and can sweep with a Potion.
Koga (42) : outspeed and Ariados is a range with Charcoal with FirePunch. Foretress is outsped and OHKOed. Venomoth is 2HKOed by Fire Punch. Muk is 3HKOed by ThunderPunch and Crobat is 2HKOed. It can be hard to win without healing due to Toxic, confusion and Double team but it's an easy win with a full restore.
Bruno (42) : Hitmontop is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch and outspeeds and 3HKO with Dig. Onix is a no. Hitmonchan will put 60% before dying and more for Hitmonlee. Machamp is a no because you 3HKO while Cross CHop 2HKOes.
Karen (42) : Umbreon is 4HKOed by ThunderPunch, Vileplume is 2HKOed by FirePunch and Gengar by ThunderPunch. You can take down these 3 mons barring important unluck. Houndoom is 3HKOed and win 1v1 as it 2HKoes. Murkrow is OHKOed and does 25% with Faint Attack. Quite solid outside of Houndoom.
Lance (42) : ThunderPunch ohkoes Gyara that goes for Rain Dance. Dragonite 1 is 3HKOed by ThunderPunch, same for second although HyperBeam does a lot. Dragonite 3 is only 4HKOed. Aerodactyl and Charizard are OHKOed by ThunderPunch so you can take down both. Seeing as how it takes hits well, with 1 or 2 Full Restore, it can take down Lance from itself which is great.


Whitney (20) : Fury Attack needs 5 hits to ko Clefairy and you barely do damages to Miltank that 3HKOes with Rollout, despite being outsped
Silver 3 (22) : you 2HKO Haunter but Curse is a death sentence, Mud Slap 2HKOes Magnemite, 2HKO on Bayleef is a range (3HKOes if it uses Growl but it's not doing much back), Return barely misses the OHKO on Zubat. Fearow helps a lot but due to Curse, sweeping will be incredibly hard.
Mortimer (25) : OHKO Gastly with Peck, 2HKO Haunter with Peck, outspeed and 3HKO Gengar with Peck. Quite good matchup but it will probably need to switch out due to Curse from Haunter.
Chuck (30) : Outspeed and 2HKO Primeape. Poliwrath is a range for the 3HKO with Return.
Jasmine (32) : nop, Mud Slap only 2HKOes Magnemite.
Pryce (32) : 2HKOes Seel and Dewgong, 3HKOes Piloswine. You get 2HKOed by Dewgong and OHKOed by Piloswine so it's hard to win.
Silver 3 (34) : 2HKO Golbat, avoid Magnemite, OHKO Haunter, 2HKO Sneasel, 3HKO Meganium due to Reflect.
Claire (38) : Dragonair are 2HKOed but paralyse and the one with Thunderbolt 2HKOes. Kingdra is 3HKoed so if it uses Smokescreen and you hit you can actually win.
Silver 4 (40) : outspeed and OHKO Sneasel, avoid Magneton, OHKO Haunter, 2HKO Golbat, OHKO Kadabra 2HKO Meganium. Like Ferraligatr, outside of Magneton it's a great matchup
Will (41) : 2HKO first Xatu but Confuse Ray is annoying, OHKO Jynx, Drill Peck is close to OHKOing Exeggutor[. Slowbro is a 4HKO after Curse. It can beat 3 to 4 mons but can't sweep Will because 2 Psychic will ko.
Koga (41) : OHKO Ariados with Drill Peck, 3/4HKO Foretress with Drill Peck, 3HKO Muk, 2HKO Crobat, OHKO Venomoth. Pretty solid outside Explosion from Foretress and Acid Armor from Muk.
Karen (43) : 3HKO Umbreon, Gengar outspeeds and uses Curse, Murkrow is OHKOed, Vileplume is OHKOed and you can barely take a Flamethrower from Houndoom to win. Really great matchup.
Lance (43) : Return 2HKOes Gyara. You can't defeat Dragonite because they OHKO with Blizzard and Thunder and Dragonite 3 is 3HKOed by Return. Win vs Charizard and lose to Aero. Can take down gyarados and Charizard and put a dent on a mon.


Silver 3 (22) : OHKO Haunter which uses Curse with Rock Throw, avoid Bayleef, Low Kick 2HKOes Magnemite and Rock Throw OHKOes Zubat. Quite good outside of Bayleef.
Mortimer (25) : OHKO Gastly with Rock Throw, 2HKO both Haunter with Rock Throw, 3HKO Gengar that 3HKOes with Dream Eater. Between everything outspeeding, Curse and Rock Throw miss it's not a good matchup especially seeing that Gengar nearly 2HKOes.
Chuck (30) : Primeape is 3HKOed by Low Kick but then Poliwrath comes and koes.
Jasmine (32) : Magnemite outspeeds and does nearly half with Thunderbolt when you 2HKO. Steelix takes really low damages.
Pryce (32) : Seel is 2HKOed and doesn't do much back, Piloswine nearly 2HKOes with Blizzard and Dewgong is OHKOed by Rock Slide. First good matchup.
Silver 3 (33) : OHKO Golbat, avoid Meganium, Magnemite does 40 with Sonic Boom and outspeed as you 2HKO, OHKO Haunter and Sneasel.
Claire (38) : you 2HKO first Dragonair when it 3HKOes and then Kingdra comes and kill.
Silver 4 (40) : OHKO Sneasel, flee Meganium, OHKO Haunter and Kadabra, OHKO Golbat. Magneton outspeeds is only 2HKOed and paralyse.
Will (41) : first Xatu does 40% with Psychic before getting koed, Exeggutor will kill with Pyshic. Slowbro does 40% with Psyhic and due to Curse won't take lots of damages. Jynx used Doubleslap but if it used Lovely Kiss it would have been a death sentence. Second Xatu does 45% with Psychic. You can beat the two Xatus but won't do much else.
Koga (41) : Ariados is OHKOed by Rock Slide, Foretress is 4HKOed and can explose. Muk is going to win by using Acid Armor and Toxic/Evasion. OHKO Venomoth and 2HKO Crobat. Bad matchup considering the type advantage and between Explosion from Foretress, Toxic and evasion, it will be nearly impossible to win.
Bruno (41) : It loses to everything, including Onix lol
Karen (41) : Umbreon is hard between confusion and accuracy drop. Gengar is 2HKOed y Rock Slide. Murkrow is easily OHKOed. Vileplume is obviously bad. You can beat Houndoom 1v1 if it uses Roar because otherwise you don't OHKO it and Crunch 2HKOes.
Lance (41) : Gyarados is 2HKOed and uses Rain Dance and then Surf to ko. Dragonite are 2HKOed by Rock Slide but 2HKO with Thunder/Blizzard/Outrage. Charizard is free but you can't take Flamethrower + 2 Rock Slide from Aero which is only 2HKOed.


My IVs were probably not optimized and I lacked items like Sharp Beak which could have made things easier but here are my thoughts :

Totodile is A-tier. It's really consistent throughout the game and never a deadweight. It has amazing gym performance (Falkner, Bugsy, Pryce) but the fact it requires some luck in some matchup as well as having an only above-average Elite 4 performance makes me feel it would be out of place in S-rank. Some gym leaders like Whitney and Mortimer are winnable but not reliably because it requires luck. The Rival especially in the early to mid game is also not great due to Macronium/Meganium. Claire was really not good. The Elite 4 was good but not dominant enough. Will requires Full Restore and even then it will be really hard to get past Slowbro, Koga is great but Double Team and Toxic can make things tricky, Karen is good but you need a Full Restore to win and you can't use it on Houndoom. Lance is alright even though it will be hard to win against the three Dagonite. A really consistent mon throughout the game (even though Claire was troublesome) but not dominant enough requiring either luck or healing item to win in some important battles.

Mareep is A-tier. Just like Totodile, Mareep was incredibly consistent. Bugsy was a clear win without any problem. Whitney was hard although it can take down Clefairy and paralyse Miltank. Rival once getting FirePunch was incredibly consistent. Mortimer and Chuck required luck but were betable especially the latter. Jasmine and Pryce were easy wins. Claire was hard but at least you could take down the Kingdra. Will was great outside of Jynx, Koga was great and Karen as pretty good. Sadly Bruno was a bad matchup even though you can take down a Hitmon but being strong against Lance makes up for that. Honestly, Mareep was really helpful in the whole game just like Totodile, having only good matchup, except for Claire (but the same can be said for Totodile and Spearow) and Bruno and was easy to train. It was just as useful as Totodile and Spearow and A-tier feels adequate for it.

Spearow is A-tier. It was really good throughout the game just like Totodile and Mareep (even though I should have got Sharp Beak and Pink Bow). It had fine performances, even though it couldn't do anything to Jasmine outside of killing a Magnemite with Mud Slap and Claire was kinda hard. The Elite 4 was quite good with a win against Bruno (outside of Onix which isn't hard to take down anyway), highly probable win against Koga (just watch out for Explosion and Double Team/Toxic) and a massive help against Karen (even though winning depends if Umbreon attacks and from accuracy drop, it's clearly possible). It puts a massive dent on Will so it's always cool. Lance was a bit harder but it could still take down both Gyarados and Charizard. A great mon to use but due to how it loses to Jasmine, Claire and the fact that some gym leaders like Chuck requires luck and that it doesn't win vs Pryce prevent it from being S-tier.

By the way, using regular Spearow might have been better. It wasn't hard to train Kenya to level 20 for Whitney but being able to use it for Falkner, Bugsy and Rival 2 would have been great.

Sudowoodo is D-tier. It was quite frankly not good. Not only was it hard to train because it is outsped by nearly everything (and with Zubat using Confuse Ray it can be very annoying) but adding to that, it didn't even help in battle. Pryce was really its only win. Mortimer is like impossible to win due to Curse and Hypnosis. Jasmine was a hard lose (you even struggle to take down both Magnemite lol), like Chuck, Claire and Bruno. You can only ko the 2 Xatu against WIll (and that requires not hitting yourself with confusion) and up to 4 mons if you're lucky against Koga. Karen isn't good because it requires luck for Umbreon, Vileplume does a lot and Houndoom 2HKOes. Being only able to win against Charizard despite te Rock type against Lance is terrible. Honestly, Sudowoodo can take kill 1 or 2 mons in most match (3 against Karen and 4 against Koga if lucky) but it doesn't make up for how hard it is too train and how it loses in some important fights.

I'll be trying Graveler, Tauros, Exeggcute and Gyarados now.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
finished my run as well. Nothing unusual to report (e.g. new members, grinding), Ryota planned well this time

Bugsy(18): Scyther overwhelms it with Fury Cutter while Water Gun deals nothing

Silver(18): loses to Bayleef

Whitney(20): Dig 2HKOs Clefairy and 4-5HKOs Miltank. Miltank, for whatever reason, insists on using Rollout. What you can do is hit it with Dig twice, then spam Ice Punch while it's locked in Rollout to prevent Milk Drink from prolonging the fight. It is possible for it to go for Stomp or Attract, though.

Silver(22): beats everything but Bayleef

Morty(25): Dig 2HKOs Gengar (puts it in red) and OHKOs the rest. You are slower than everything, though, so prepare for some hax.

Chuck(31): Strength 2HKOs Primeape and 4HKOs Poliwrath. Wrath is likely to beat you

Jasmine(31): Dig OHKOs Magnemite and Surf 2HKOs Steelix, easy sweep

Pryce(31): Surf 2HKOs Piloswine, Strength 2HKOs Seel and 3HKOs Dewgong

Silver(33): Strength 2HKOs Sneasel. Ice Punch 2HKOs Golbat. Dig OHKOs Haunter and Magnemite

Clair(38): EQ 2HKOs Dragonair. You will likely have to heal after beating two to beat the third one

Silver(40): EQ OHKOs Haunter, Kadabra, Sneasel, and Magneton. Ice Punch 2HKOs Golbat

Will(41): NMI Ice Punch 2HKOs Xatu and Exeggutor and Earthquake OHKOs Jynx and 3HKOs Slowbro. lowbro is the only thing you outspeed, so you will be haxed or worn down very easily

Koga(41): beats Muk with EQ. Ariados and Venomoth are 2HKOed by EQ, but the former can damage you hard with Giga Drain. Forry is 3HKOed by Surf and Crobat is 3HKOed by Ice Punch. Won't sweep for sure, but it's a good option for Muk

Bruno(42): EQ OHKOs Hitmontop while it's Digging and 2HKOs the other Hitmons. It is possible to beat all three of them without healing whatsoever

Karen(43): EQ OHKOs Houndoom and Gengar. Avoid the rest

Lance(43): NMI Ice Punch 2HKOs Dragonite. Lv. 47 Hyper Beam 2HKOs on rolls, so you may be able to take out only one.


Whitney(20): PB Headbutt 2HKOs Clefairy. Miltank outspeeds and 3HKOs with Rollout, your only way of winning here is if it misses Rollout, though Charm can assist a teammate.

Silver(22): beats Haunter with Bite and its Curse and Zubat if it doesn't confuse you to death. Magnemite is 2HKOed by Fire Punch as well

Morty(25): Bite OHKOs Gastly, 2HKOs Haunter, and 3HKOs Gengar. Most of them cannot touch you, save for Cursing, so you may be able to take out a few of his Pokemon

Chuck(30): PB Return OHKOs Primeape and 2HKOs Poliwrath. However, both are faster, so you need to pray for RNG in your favor

Jasmine(30): Charcoal Fire Punch puts Magnemite in red. You get paralyzed and 3HKOed by Thunderbolt

Pryce(32): PB Return OHKOs Seel and 2HKOs the rest. Dewgong is faster. Hope for no Blizzard, as that may be able to KO

Silver(33): Fire Punch 2HKOs Magnemite, Bite 2HKOs Haunter, and PB Return 2HKOs Golbat and OHKOs Sneasel on rolls.

Clair(38): PB Return 2HKOs Dragonair with a small chance of OHKOing. You may need to heal due to paralysis. Kingdra destroys you, so cannot sweep

Silver(40): PB Return OHKOs Sneasel, Golbat, and Kadabra. Magneton is 2HKOed by Fire Punch, Haunter by Shadow Ball and Meganium is 3HKOed by Return under Reflect.

Will(41): Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKOs Xatu and Jynx and 2HKOs the rest. However, Xatu and Jynx are faster and either 2HKO or come close to 2HKOing with Psychic, so you will have to heal often to beat more than two Pokemon

Koga(41): PB Return 2HKOs everything but Forry, which is almost OHKOed by Fire Punch. Toxic may force you to heal, though, along with you being outsped by Venomoth and Crobat..

Bruno(41): very bad here. At best you beat Hitmontop. Hitmonlee and Machamp can nuke you with STAB moves, while Hitmonchan will 2HKO you with Mach Punch if you took on Hitmontop. You can 2HKO Onix with Ice Punch, I guess.

Karen(41): PB Return 2HKOs Houndoom and Vileplume and OHKOs Murkrow. Shadow Ball OHKOs Gengar. Umbreon is 3HKOed by Return. You are likely to beat Murkrow, Gengar, and potentially Vileplume.


Silver(22): beats everything but Bayleef

Morty(25): Surf 2HKOs Gengar and OHKOs the rest. Haunter #2 and Gengar are faster and you outspeed the rest

Chuck(30): beats Primeape

Jasmine(30): outspeeds and OHKOs everything with Surf, easy sweep

Pryce(31): Surf kills Piloswine and Shadow Ball muscles through Seel and Dewgong

Silver(33): Surf OHKOs Haunter and Magnemite and 2HKOs Sneasel and Golbat. Rain can help secure OHKOs

Clair(38): NMI Aurora Beam 2HKOs Dragonair, putting them in red. You outspeed them, but prepare for paralysis

Silver(40): Surf 2HKOs Sneasel and OHKOs Haunter and Magneton. NMI Aurora Beam 2HKOs Goblat and Meganium and Shadow Ball OHKOs Kadabra

Will(41): NMI Aurora Beam 2HKOs Xatu and Exeggutor, only the former causes issues with hax. Jynx is 2HKOed by Shadow Ball (watch out for Lovely Kiss) with Reflect up and Bite + Shadow Ball 3HKO Slowbro. Sweep can be performed, but you need to hea lonce and you need some luck against the hax.

Koga(42): Surf in rain OHKOs all the bugs. NMI Aurora Beam 2HKOs Crobat.

Bruno(42): you get barraged by attacks constantly and Surf is at best a 2HKO on everything bar Onix. You will not be able to take out a lot of his Pokemon without significant healing

Karen(42): Surf 2HKOs Houndoom and NMI Aurora Beam OHKOs Murkrow. Best to just take on Houndoom and nothing else, as you will be weakened enough to lose otherwise

Lance(42): NMI Aurora Beam puts Dragonite in red. Hyper Beam 2HKOs you. You need to heal a lot to take them out all, though I guess it's better than nothing


Silver(22): beats everything but Bayleef

Morty(25): Surf OHKOs Gastly, 3HKOs Gengar, and 2HKOs Haunter. You can perform well here if not too haxed

Chuck(30): Surf 2HKOs Primeape and Magnet Spark 2HKOs Poliwrath. Great matchup

Jasmine(30): Surf 2HKOs everything, you sweep if you don't get unlucky with paralyzes

Pryce(31): Spark covers Seel line and Surf covers Piloswine

Silver(32): Magnet Spark 2HKOs Golbat. Surf OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Sneasel and Haunter, both of which outspeed you

Clair(38): at best it can try to 1v1 Kingdra by 2HKOing with ThunderDance, though that looks to be a roll. Hyper Beam seems to be a 3HKO. Smokescreen can help you as it wastes turns on her side

Silver(40): Surf 2HKOs Sneasel. Set up rain against anything but Haunter and OHKO Golbat with Thunder and the rest with Surf.

Will(41): Magnet Thunder OHKOs Xatu and Slowbro, while Surf 2HKOs Jynx under rain. Xatu and Jynx are faster, so they can hax you, though

Koga(41): Surf in rain 2HKOs the Bugs. Thunder in rain OHKOs Crobat and 3HKOs Muk. You won't sweep, but you can take out Ariados, Forry, and Crobat safely, most of the time.

Bruno(41): You get barraged by attacks contantly, so setting up rain is hard. It will be difficult to get past more than two of his Pokemon

Karen(41): Magnet Thunder in rain 4HKOs Umbreon. Can also 1v1 Houndoom and beat Murkrow with Magnet Spark.


thoughts:

Wooper
ehh, it was workable. It was kind of useless as Wooper for Bugsy, but it became better once it evolved into Quagsire. In general, Quagsire wasn't a stronghold and it's definitely outclassed by a lot of things when it comes to power. With that said, though, Quagsire was never really useless in any fight and managed to win through some. Its biggest issue is that it's not particularly fast, so it's open to all sorts of hax. Its E4 performance was slightly better than what I expected, though it not OHKOing Lance's Dragonite kind of sucked. As for ranking, this is no higher than B, but I think C-tier is reasonable too. I think C could become a stronger case once we settle the higher tiers and see if B and above will be filled with harder-hitting Pokemon, but I could live with either tier.

Snubbull
Can't say I can see it any higher than B, I'd argue it could maybe be C-tier even. Like Wooper, Granbull's Speed was a major downfall to its performance, meaning that it often got haxed and worn out quickly. Return was relatively powerful, though not 2HKOing Umbreon (unlike, per experience, Ursaring) was kind of lame. As I said, I could see C-tier for this, though I guess B works. It's very easy to train due to good growth rate and you can accumuluate a powerful Return regardless of the game. The biggest issue is just that it getting outsped constantly didn't help it at all, especially at the E4, where it kind of flopped in terms of performance.

By the way, I did use punches on Snubbull and they seem to be legit. They won't help much for major fights, but are useful for route cleaning, especially early on when you can hit things like Magnemite and Hoppip for super effective damage.

Vaporeon
Gonna go with B-tier on this one. It starts out greatly with high join level and immediate Surf, but the end-game was worse than I expected. It's not too bad there, but it's hard to set rain there and as a result you won't be able to hit as hard as you want to. Aurora Beam not being STAB didn't help, as it meant I couldn't OHKO Dragonair and Dragonite, meaning it's harder to take on them. Couple this with the fact that you already get this after three badges, I think B is appropriate, though another test on this wouldn't hurt (I wouldn't label it as high priority, though)

Chinchou
B-tier at best, maybe C-tier. Slow growth rate on this thing sucks, though immediate Surf is good, I guess. Early on, it tends to perform better, as Surf + Spark is more than enough to cover the earlier fights (bar Morty, which you want to avoid). ThunderDance wasn't needed until Clair, where it can be used to 1v1 Kingdra. At the E4, Lanturn tends to flop, because it's way too reliant on rain to actually deal damage consistently and it has a hard time setting up rain. So B-tier at best, but I can see C-tier on this thing due to Slow growth rate, post-three badges availability, and falling out at the League

In general, I have noticed that it's not too hard to be okay in this game. It seems like as long as you don't outright suck, you can perform well in most of the fights. I have tried to be a bit more conservative, though this also explains why I am very doubled on tiers and often give two instead of one. I think it would be easier to tier once we settle the higher tiers and see if anything looks odd in the tier it is.

I will stop testing for now, till this thread gets a bit more activity, just so I don't dominate it entirely. However, if someone wants me to test anything, feel free to ask and I will post logs anyways. Next runs will focus mostly on tiering stuff that look like will end in higher tiers to solve the issue that I think exists (which is that it may be slightly hard to rank stuff in the high tiers due to how easy the games tend to be, at least post-Morty fights are very easy tbh).
 
Sudowoodo is D-tier. It was quite frankly not good. Not only was it hard to train because it is outsped by nearly everything (and with Zubat using Confuse Ray it can be very annoying) but adding to that, it didn't even help in battle. Pryce was really its only win. Mortimer is like impossible to win due to Curse and Hypnosis. Jasmine was a hard lose (you even struggle to take down both Magnemite lol), like Chuck, Claire and Bruno. You can only ko the 2 Xatu against WIll (and that requires not hitting yourself with confusion) and up to 4 mons if you're lucky against Koga. Karen isn't good because it requires luck for Umbreon, Vileplume does a lot and Houndoom 2HKOes. Being only able to win against Charizard despite te Rock type against Lance is terrible. Honestly, Sudowoodo can take kill 1 or 2 mons in most match (3 against Karen and 4 against Koga if lucky) but it doesn't make up for how hard it is too train and how it loses in some important fights.
Interesting, I suspect it'll be a similar experience for me, but one major difference I had is giving Dig to Sudo. This made KOing Morty's ghosts easier, and switching out after getting Cursed usually worked out as Morty's first Gastly and Haunter more often then not kamikaze'd themselves constantly trying to Curse my mons. Hypnosis is a problem for a lot of mons, but if you don't want to rely on luck, Awakenings and/or having it hold the Route 39 Mint Berry can give any mon an easier time against Gengar, since Morty likes to spam Hypnosis > Dream Eater and waking up your Pokemon messes with that strategy. And though it only has a 1/5 chance to occur per move, having it hold Quick Claw is handy. Getting to use Dig before Gengar can use Hypnosis in particular can really help. Jasmine's Magnemites should also be easy to deal with using Dig especially if Quick Claw triggers, but Steelix's Iron Tail and mammoth Defense likely won't let Sudo solo that fight. Quick Claw should also improve the Will, Koga and Lance matchups a bit, every time it gets priority on a KO or a clutch flinch that's one less attack it has to take before it goes down. Dig + Quick Claw Geodude would basically be superior to Sudo in nearly every way though, outside of Sudo being a guaranteed encounter on the main path, and I'm not sure that the performance improvement from Dig + Quick Claw would be enough for it to rise.

Edit:
The player is allowed to use any legitimate means within the cartridge for completing the game efficiently.
Oh, and how does this relate to RNG manipulation? In Pokemon Red speedruns, speedrunners manipulate the RNG to get a Nidoran-Male with a specific stat spread. In GSC, RNG manipulation could be used to reliably encounter Entei, Raikou or GS Suicune, or generate IVs that give a specific Hidden Power to fill in gaps in a Pokemon's coverage. I'm assuming intentional RNG manipulation wouldn't be allowed?
 
Last edited:

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I'm assuming intentional RNG manipulation wouldn't be allowed?
Not the OP, but yes, RNGing is generally not considered in most lists. I can't say I am an expert in RNGing, but most readers (which tend to be casual) wouldn't be able to pull it off or would need to spend a lot of time following guides to pull it off, which by itself wouldn't be efficient.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Not accidental. It means it doesn't contribute anything or that I didn't bother testing it because I couldn't come up with a way to make the Pokemon noteworthy there.
 
Do you remember if Chinchou could beat more than one of Lances Pokemon? Or did Hyper Beams 2HKO? I've never used it because of the exp group but always though it's bulk would let it be a little helpful to Lance.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Gyarados's Hyper Beam is a 2HKO and you need to set up rain in order to have a guaranteed hit with Thunder (Spark is a 2HKO). I loaded my game to reconfirm this. Needless to say, you are unlikely to beat more than one Pokemon without significant support (note: Lanturn doesn't learn Ice moves at all).

e: nvm, Spark can also be comfortably used, forgot Hyper Beam had a recharge turn lol. Still, cannot beat more than one
e2: fixed a major typo
 
Interesting, I suspect it'll be a similar experience for me, but one major difference I had is giving Dig to Sudo. This made KOing Morty's ghosts easier, and switching out after getting Cursed usually worked out as Morty's first Gastly and Haunter more often then not kamikaze'd themselves constantly trying to Curse my mons. Hypnosis is a problem for a lot of mons, but if you don't want to rely on luck, Awakenings and/or having it hold the Route 39 Mint Berry can give any mon an easier time against Gengar, since Morty likes to spam Hypnosis > Dream Eater and waking up your Pokemon messes with that strategy. And though it only has a 1/5 chance to occur per move, having it hold Quick Claw is handy. Getting to use Dig before Gengar can use Hypnosis in particular can really help. Jasmine's Magnemites should also be easy to deal with using Dig especially if Quick Claw triggers, but Steelix's Iron Tail and mammoth Defense likely won't let Sudo solo that fight. Quick Claw should also improve the Will, Koga and Lance matchups a bit, every time it gets priority on a KO or a clutch flinch that's one less attack it has to take before it goes down. Dig + Quick Claw Geodude would basically be superior to Sudo in nearly every way though, outside of Sudo being a guaranteed encounter on the main path, and I'm not sure that the performance improvement from Dig + Quick Claw would be enough for it to rise.

Edit:
The player is allowed to use any legitimate means within the cartridge for completing the game efficiently.
Oh, and how does this relate to RNG manipulation? In Pokemon Red speedruns, speedrunners manipulate the RNG to get a Nidoran-Male with a specific stat spread. In GSC, RNG manipulation could be used to reliably encounter Entei, Raikou or GS Suicune, or generate IVs that give a specific Hidden Power to fill in gaps in a Pokemon's coverage. I'm assuming intentional RNG manipulation wouldn't be allowed?
Really interesting post. I reloaded to teach Sudowoodo Dig and while it was better, it still wasn't perfect. You can only beat Gastly or first Haunter without any trouble. The problem is that seeing as Gengar is only 2HKOed by Dig, you're going to lose lots of health to Curse, especially with Dig being a 2-turn move. Mint Berry is a great idea (and I'll use it on my runs going on) and hitting Hypnosis twice isn't an easy task so Gengar should be taken down and last Haunter is easy to beat. It's way better under theses circumstances because killing 3 mons(Gastly, Gengar and Haunter 2) most of the time is better.

I'm kinda doubtful about Quick Claw tho because it's really luck reliant. I didn't test it but it just seems really unreliable despite helping at times. Against Jasmine, it won't help all that much because Magnemite is most likely to use Thunder Wave and you have a 1/25 chance to activate Quick Claw twice (seeing as how using Dig while paralysed is bad).

Your run will provide information but as you said it will probably not rise because it's really bad, being too slow and frail on the special side.
 
Really interesting post. I reloaded to teach Sudowoodo Dig and while it was better, it still wasn't perfect. You can only beat Gastly or first Haunter without any trouble. The problem is that seeing as Gengar is only 2HKOed by Dig, you're going to lose lots of health to Curse, especially with Dig being a 2-turn move. Mint Berry is a great idea (and I'll use it on my runs going on) and hitting Hypnosis twice isn't an easy task so Gengar should be taken down and last Haunter is easy to beat. It's way better under theses circumstances because killing 3 mons(Gastly, Gengar and Haunter 2) most of the time is better.

I'm kinda doubtful about Quick Claw tho because it's really luck reliant. I didn't test it but it just seems really unreliable despite helping at times. Against Jasmine, it won't help all that much because Magnemite is most likely to use Thunder Wave and you have a 1/25 chance to activate Quick Claw twice (seeing as how using Dig while paralysed is bad).

Your run will provide information but as you said it will probably not rise because it's really bad, being too slow and frail on the special side.
While relying on Quick Claw for one particular moment is bad, it will overall make grinding 20% less awful for slow Pokemon like Sudowoodo (every time it activates is one less exposure to damage or confusion) while also gaining value in major battles for every time it gives a priority flinch, KO, status etc.

Think "or" when using Quick Claw rather than "and". For example, vs. Jasmine, it's a 1/25 chance for Quick Claw activating for Magnemite #1 and Magnemite #2, but it's a roughly 1/3 chance for Quick Claw activating for Magnemite #1 or Magnemite #2. Though I think PRZ Cure Berry actually might be the way to go for Jasmine specifically, since it guarantees Dig Sudo will take out a Magnemite for no damage if one of them uses Thunder Wave. Actually, PRZ Cure Berry might be great for anything that doesn't like eating a Thunder Wave from Jasmine's Magnemites. Also, I think I'd still rather use Dig against Jasmine even without the PRZ Cure Berry so Sudo is only exposed to 1 attack per Magnemite compared to 2 from using Low Kicks, even if Dig has a somewhat higher chance to FP than 2 Low Kicks have to miss.

Lance is another minor example, you stated it didn't quite have enough HP to take on both Charizard and Aerodactyl, but a priority KO on either Charizard or Aerodactyl (1/3ish chance) would let Sudo take out 2 Pokemon before it goes instead of 1, plus have a (very) slim chance of priority flinching/KOing its way to a sweep.


How should egg move Pokemon be categorized? For example, in Silver there's the Route 36/37 Vulpix, which is conveniently right along the main path to obtain, but then there's Hypnosis Vulpix. It requires a little more time obtaining a female Vulpix, male level 15 Stantler, back tracking to Goldenrod, getting the egg, hatching it and training it from Level 5, but then it has Hypnosis which could make it capable of taking fights the Route 36/37 Vulpix couldn't. Seems like the experience of grabbing a wild Pokemon and raising an egg move Pokemon would turn out differently, due to the worse availability but better movepool.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
(Not OP again)

The issue with breeding is that it is incredibly inefficient. In general, something is efficient when it beats the game quickly, with little hassle, through simple strategies, and (in some cases) without a lot of resources (definition can vary between people and other games). Breeding fails the first two by a huge margin; it's both very slow and a huge hassle. By the time you hatch the Pokemon with desired moves and grind it up to match your levels, you'd have made a significant progress if you just played the game a bit more "casually". Any benefit the egg move yields would be significantly outweighted by the amount of effort and time spent on trying to get it on first place.
 
(Not OP again)

The issue with breeding is that it is incredibly inefficient. In general, something is efficient when it beats the game quickly, with little hassle, through simple strategies, and (in some cases) without a lot of resources (definition can vary between people and other games). Breeding fails the first two by a huge margin; it's both very slow and a huge hassle. By the time you hatch the Pokemon with desired moves and grind it up to match your levels, you'd have made a significant progress if you just played the game a bit more "casually". Any benefit the egg move yields would be significantly outweighted by the amount of effort and time spent on trying to get it on first place.
Makes sense. Looking through possible early game options, I think Exeggcute might be a viable breeding option though. Everything you need is right along the path to Goldenrod: Exeggcute in the trees, Sunkern in the Park with Mega Drain already learned, Hoppip along the way with Synthesis already learned. Exeggcute's attack movepool is rather barren, so getting Mega Drain or Synthesis would go a long way towards Exeggcute's effectiveness. Synthesis Exeggcute in particular is as early of an egg move Pokemon you can obtain, you just need to grab a male Hoppip and female Exeggcute before you reach Goldenrod and stick them in the Daycare. Depending on Exeggcute's egg spawning and hatch times (especially if the egg is ready by time Goldenrod is done), it might not be any more impractical than the Odd Eggs, and you end up with a much stronger late game Exeggutor.

Edit: Actually, where would you rank Tyrogue? It starts off at level 10 and can only be obtained with Surf and Waterfall, any egg move Pokemon you could obtain immediately after Sudowoodo surely would be hatched by time you could reach it, would require only a little more experience, and most would have way better moves to start with.
 
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Seems this has been popping off. I’m a bit busy at the moment during the weekdays so my responses will be very infrequent.

To hit a couple things here after a quick skim, breeding is inefficient and shouldn’t really ever be done for testing, especially Gen 2 which has “infertile” Pokemon (these are pokemon whose IVs make it unable to breed) A concept that was gotten rid of in Gen 3. So breeding isn’t allowed.

Tyrouge is probably gonna be in the lower echelons of this list. D/E most likely. As stated, you get it at 10 after Clair. Requires careful planning if you want to get a specific Evolution (usually using Protein or Irons to ensure the one you want), and the remaining MUs for it are 6. It would need to clear every single one of those to even break D and it would be hard to do so.
 
While relying on Quick Claw for one particular moment is bad, it will overall make grinding 20% less awful for slow Pokemon like Sudowoodo (every time it activates is one less exposure to damage or confusion) while also gaining value in major battles for every time it gives a priority flinch, KO, status etc.

Think "or" when using Quick Claw rather than "and". For example, vs. Jasmine, it's a 1/25 chance for Quick Claw activating for Magnemite #1 and Magnemite #2, but it's a roughly 1/3 chance for Quick Claw activating for Magnemite #1 or Magnemite #2. Though I think PRZ Cure Berry actually might be the way to go for Jasmine specifically, since it guarantees Dig Sudo will take out a Magnemite for no damage if one of them uses Thunder Wave. Actually, PRZ Cure Berry might be great for anything that doesn't like eating a Thunder Wave from Jasmine's Magnemites. Also, I think I'd still rather use Dig against Jasmine even without the PRZ Cure Berry so Sudo is only exposed to 1 attack per Magnemite compared to 2 from using Low Kicks, even if Dig has a somewhat higher chance to FP than 2 Low Kicks have to miss.

Lance is another minor example, you stated it didn't quite have enough HP to take on both Charizard and Aerodactyl, but a priority KO on either Charizard or Aerodactyl (1/3ish chance) would let Sudo take out 2 Pokemon before it goes instead of 1, plus have a (very) slim chance of priority flinching/KOing its way to a sweep.


How should egg move Pokemon be categorized? For example, in Silver there's the Route 36/37 Vulpix, which is conveniently right along the main path to obtain, but then there's Hypnosis Vulpix. It requires a little more time obtaining a female Vulpix, male level 15 Stantler, back tracking to Goldenrod, getting the egg, hatching it and training it from Level 5, but then it has Hypnosis which could make it capable of taking fights the Route 36/37 Vulpix couldn't. Seems like the experience of grabbing a wild Pokemon and raising an egg move Pokemon would turn out differently, due to the worse availability but better movepool.
Yeah I view more Quick Claw as a "bonus" rather than a solid strategy. It can definitely help for Will or Lance. PRZ Cure Berry makes Jasmine more consistent although you still hardly lose to Steelix anyway. I guess it's a bit better with that but still it's not reliable. Your logs will help but Sudowoodo will probably lose to the same things (Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix, Clair, Bruno) while being only sometimes marginally better in some match (Will, Karen, Lance). I don't think the difference will be important tbh.

As Ryota and Turdterra stated, I don't think breeding is worth it. I haven't finished but Exeggcute depiste having Hypnosis + Leech Seed (and Reflect) isn't going to be in a good rank, probably D. Chuck and Koga look promising but outside of that Confusion is weak and it will only have SunnyBeam for the league. Not to mention it's quite horrid to train.
 
Alright, thanks for clearing that up. I might do egg move breeding runs anyway, but won't bother posting them here unless they show such improvement that they could be argued for being ranked above the non-bred Pokemon, which shouldn't happen unless Flail Farfetch'd sweeps the whole game or something like that.

Yeah I view more Quick Claw as a "bonus" rather than a solid strategy. It can definitely help for Will or Lance. PRZ Cure Berry makes Jasmine more consistent although you still hardly lose to Steelix anyway. I guess it's a bit better with that but still it's not reliable. Your logs will help but Sudowoodo will probably lose to the same things (Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix, Clair, Bruno) while being only sometimes marginally better in some match (Will, Karen, Lance). I don't think the difference will be important tbh.

As Ryota and Turdterra stated, I don't think breeding is worth it. I haven't finished but Exeggcute depiste having Hypnosis + Leech Seed (and Reflect) isn't going to be in a good rank, probably D. Chuck and Koga look promising but outside of that Confusion is weak and it will only have SunnyBeam for the league. Not to mention it's quite horrid to train.
Yeah, Quick Claw is a minor improvement, but still one that should be factored since it does boost slow Pokemon like Sudowoodo a little. Could be the slight edge that pushes a Pokemon from being borderline between two tiers to just being in the higher tier.
 
All damage is shown without Reflect or Light Screen

15 Chikorita 3HKO's Pidgey, taking 3/41 from Tackle and 4HKO's Pidgeotto, taking 7/41 from Gust after Reflect. I tried 3 times losing once, winning with 4 HP after Berry and 7HP after Berry because of Tackle misses and Crits. You can get to 15 without fighting wild Pokemon and can clear Sprout tower with only 1 Potion. Chikorita did outspeed everything.
19 Bayleef 1HKO's Gastly with a Crit, 3HKO's Zubat, taking 5/58 from Leech Life and 5HKO's Quilava, taking 17/58 from Ember. You're faster than everything. Mud Slap should also be a 5HKO so you can win if you're lucky or just use a Super Potion.
18 Bayleef can't beat Scyther. Even when it missed the third Fury Cutter and I used a Super Potion I still couldn't beat it. I tried 3 times, with one time I needed a Potion, Antidote and PSNCureBerry just to get pass Kakuna. 20 Bayleef tried 3 times and still couldn't win, although with a miss and 2 Super Potions I got it to red. 22 Bayleef (the highest level you can get without fighting wilds) wasn't able to win in 5 tries even with Super Potions so I gave up and used X items. After 3 tries with 2 X Defends and 1 X Attack I still didn't win so I went back to Violet City to buy more so I wouldn't have to be too overleveled for Whitney.
23 Bayleef 4HKO's Clefairy with Fury Cutter, taking 3/66 per Doubleslap hit. It 2HKO's Miltank with Fury Miracle Seed Razor Leaf, who 4HKO's with Rollout and is faster than you. I won with 48/66 HP and the first Fury Cutter got Miltank into the red so I really don't think overleveling made a difference.
23 Bayleef 3HKO's Haunter after Curse with Miracle Seed Razor Leaf, taking 5/66 from Lick and losing 33/66 from Curse, 2HKO'd Zubat who does 7/66 with Leech Life, 4HKO'd Quilava with Headbutt, taking 18/66 from Ember and 4HKO'd Magnemite who does 20/66 with Sonic Boom. Haunter is faster
25 Bayleef 1HKO's Gastly after Curse. 3HKO's Haunter who just misses Hypnosis and then gets finished off by Gengar's Shadow Ball. 1v1 Mud Slap will 5HKO Gengar who does 30/71 with Dream Eater.
30 Bayleef 3HKO's Primeape taking 20/84 from Karate Chop and 3HKO's Poliwrath taking 41/84 from Dynamic Punch. Primeape is faster. 32 Meganium 2HKO's Primeape taking 15/101 from Karate Chop and 2HKO's Poliwrath taking 33/101 from Dynamic Punch
32 Meganium 1HKo's Seel with Razor Leaf, 2HKO's Dewgong with Razor Leaf taking 28/102 from Aurora Beam and 2HKO's Piloswine with Razor Leaf taking 55/102 from Aurora Beam
32 Meganium 3HKO's Magnemite with Razor Leaf taking 20/105 from Sonic Boom and 3HKO's (5HKO's after Hyper Potion) Steelix taking 42/102 from Iron Tail. You can't really avoid the Hyper Potion but have a 68% chance to get the crit you need and 87% chance to win 1v1 including Iron Tail miss.
33 Meganium 3HKO's Golbat with Body Slam taking 32/105 from Wing Attack, 2HKO's Quilava with Body Slam taking 47/105 from Flame Wheel, 2HKO's Magnemite with Razor Leaf taking 20/105 from Sonic Boom, 2HKO's Haunter taking 15/108 from Shadow Ball and 3HKO's Sneasel takign 10/108 from Feint Attack. Sneasel is faster.
37 Meganium 3HKO's Dragonair taking 43/117 from Ice Beam and 4HKO's (7HKO's after Hyper Potion) Kingdra taking 45/117 from Hyper Beam and 30/117 from Dragon Breath
40 Meganium 2HKO's Sneasel with Body Slam taking 6/126 from Fury Cutter, 3HKO's Golbat with Body Slam taking 41/126 from Wing Attack, 2HKO's Typhlosion with Earthquake taking 57/126 from Flame Wheel and 1HKO's Haunter, Magneton and Kadabra with Earthquake.
41 Meganium 3HKO's 40 Xatu with Body Slam taking 38/129 from Psychic, 2HKO's Jynx with Body Slam taking 76/129 from Ice Punch, 4HKO's Exeggutor taking 46/129 from Psychic, 2HKO's Slowbro with Razor Leaf taking 39/129 from Psychic and 3HKO's 42 Xatu taking 44/129 from Psychic
41 Meganium 3HKO's Ariados with Soft Sand Earthquake who refuses to attack, 2HKO's Venomoth who Toxics, 2HKO's Muk taking 79/129 from Sludge Bomb and 7HKO's Crobat after Full Restore taking 57/129 from Wing Attack and 4HKO's Forretress who 1HKO's with Explosion. Crobat is faster.
41 Meganium 3HKO's Hitmontop with Earthquake taking 12/129 from Quick Attack, 3HKO's Hitmonchan taking 25/129 form Fire Punch, 2HKO's Hitmonlee taking 44/129 from Hi Jump Kick, 4HKO's (7HKO's because you can't avoid the Full Restore) Machamp who does 72/129 with Cross Chop and 2HKO's Onix with Earthquake who does 20/129 with Rock Slide. I could not get Hitmonlee to Swagger even though I stalled a lot
41 Meganium 4HKO's Umbreon with Soft Sand Earthquake taking 19/129 from Feint Attack, 4HKO's Vileplume taking 27/129 from Acid, 1HKO's Gengar after Curse with Earthquake, 3HKO's Murkrow taking 29/129 from Feint Attack, and 2HKO's Houndoom taking 115/129 from Flamethrower. Gengar and Houndoom are faster.
41 Meganium 4HKO's Gyarados with Body Slam taking 62/129 from Hyper Beam, 5HKO's 47 Dragonite taking 76/129 from Hyper Beam, 6-7HKO's Aerodactyl taking 68/129 from Wing Attack, 3-4HKO's Charizard taking 123/132 from Flamethrower and 6HKO's (9HKO's after Full Restore) 50 Dragonite taking 56/132 from Outrage. I spammed potions until Dragonite died from Confusion but it refused to Hyper Beam. Aerodactyl is faster.
Good Matchups: Whitney, Chuck, Pryce, Rival 5, Bruno, Karen,
Ok Matchups: Rival 3, Jasmine, Rival 4, Clair, Will, Koga, Lance.
Bad Matchups: Falkner, Bugsy, Rival 2, Morty,

Just looking at the important matchups makes Chikorita look a lot better than it is. You face a lot of Poison, Bug and Flying types at the start of the game and you don't get a better normal move than Tackle until Headbutt, which is also the first 100% accurate move you get. I was literally 3HKOing level 9 Zubats at a level 17 and that's if they don't confuse me. All the work of training it through the first two gyms does reward you Bayleef who solos Whitney. Fury Cutter being 95% accurate compared to Rollouts 90% is very nice, and you can Sweet Scent the Clefairy if you want. Routes are fine after you get Headbutt but major battles tend to be you needing to set your screen, heal off damage, get an attack or 2 and repeat. With how long it ends up taking to beat something while staying healthy you eventually get status'd or crit which leads to more Synthesis PP. You often need a Mystery Berry to not run out which means you don't get to use the status berries. It feels like you have to try so much harder with Chikorita just to get average results.

As much as I hate Chikorita it does sweep Whitney and nothing 1HKO's it letting you support with a screen against anything so it definitely deserves C. I was really impressed with living Houndoom's Flamethrower.
21 Aipom is a speed tie with Miltank, 4HKOing with Headbutt and being 4HKO'd back. You need 1 flinch or to win the final speed tie. Fury Cutter 4HKO's Clefairy and 2HKO's Miltank. This seems less reliable because if Clefairy does enough damage Miltank will Stomp instead of Rollout.
23 Aipom 4HKO's Rival's Haunter with Mud Slap (idk why it didn't curse, it just used spites), 2HKO's Magnemite who does 20/65 with Sonic Boom, 1HKO's Zubat and 2HKO's Quilava, taking 15/68 from Ember. Aipom is faster than everything.
25 Aipom 2HKO's Gastly with Mud Slap who just spites, 2HKO's Haunter after curse and 5HKO'd Gengar with 4 Mudslap and a Tail Whip. At this point I was at 2 HP and 0 Mud Slaps so I lost to Haunter from Curse.
30 Aipom 2HKO's Primeape with Headbutt taking 44/83 from Karate Chop. Headbutt 4HKO's Poliwrath, who 1HKO's with Dynamic Punch
30 Aipom 2HKO's Seel taking 11/83 from , 3HKO's Dewgong taking 27/83 from Aurora Beam and 4HKO's Piloswine with Heabbutt taking 47/83 from Blizzard
30 Aipom 2HKO's Magnemite with Fire Punch taking 55/83 from Thunderbolt and 4HKO's (7HKO after Hyper Potion) taking 64/83 from Iron Tail.
33 Aipom 2HKO's Golbat with Return taking 25/91 from Wing Attack, 2HKO's Magnemite with Fire Punch taking 19/91 from Thundershock, 1HKO's Haunter with Shadow Ball, 2HKO's Sneasel who does 18/91 with Feint Attack and 2HKO's Quilava with Return taking 29/91 from Flame Wheel. Sneasel is faster.
37 Aipom 2HKO's Dragonair with PRZCureberry Return, taking 32/101 from Thunderbolt and 3HKO's Kingdra with Return and Screech taking 58/101 from Hyper Beam.
40 Aipom 2HKO's Sneasel taking 15/109 from Feint Attack, 2HKO's Golbat with Return taking 27/109 from Wing Attack, 2HKO's Magneton with Fire Punch taking 27/109 from Thundershock, 1HKO's Haunter and Kadabra with Shadow Ball and 2HKO's Typhlosion with Return taking 48/112. Pink Bow doesn't make a difference and I think Magneton will always Thunderwave so you won't take damage from it so with a PRZcureberry you solo him.
40 Aipom 2HKO's Xatus with Shadow Ball taking 62/109 and 70/109 from Psychic, 1HKO's Jynx with Shadow Ball, 2HKO's Exeggutor taking 89/109 from Psychic and 3HKO's Slowbro with Screech and Shadow Ball while it only Curses.
40 Aipom 2HKO's Ariados, Venomoth and Forretress taking a Supersonic from Venomoth, 3HKO's Muk taking 60/112 from Sludge Bomb and 3HKO's Crobat not activating the Full Restore with Screech and Return taking 42/112 from Wing Attack. Crobat is faster.
42 Aipom 3HKO's Hitmontop with Pink Bow Return negating Dig with Detect, 2HKO's Hitmonlee who 1HKO's back, 2HKO's Hitmonchan taking 51/115 and 3-4HKO's Machamp who 1HKO's with Cross Chop and 2HKO's Onix with Ice Punch taking 47/115 from Earthquake.
42 Aipom 3HKO's Umbreon with Screech and Return taking 32/115 from Feint Attack, 3HKO's Vileplume with Return taking /115 from Petal Dance, Shadowball 1HKO's Gengar but sometimes it can use Destiny Bond or Curse, Return 2HKO's Murkrow taking 47/117 from Feint Attack and Screech+Return 2HKO Houndoom taking 101/117 from Flame Thrower
42 Aipom 3HKO's Gyarados with Return or Thunder Punch taking 91/115 from Hyper Beam, 3HKO's Dragonites with NMI Ice Punch who do 98/115 and 109/115 with Hyper Beam, 3HKO's Aerodactyl with Ice Punch taking 72/117 from Hyper Beam, 3HKO's Charizard with Return taking 88/117 from Flame Thrower. Aerodactyl is faster.
Good Matchups: Rival 3, Rival 4, Clair, Rival 5
Ok Matchups: Whitney, Morty, Will, Koga, Karen
Bad Matchups: Chuck, Pryce, Jasmine, Bruno, Lance

I feel like most Normal types are good when you get them but by the end of the game they're too weak to contribute much but they have their own niche. In Aipom case it's in the Fast level up group so it steals the least amount of exp from your team when it's past it's prime as well as Screech. It's single stage so it has Persian's attack at level 10 but it comes after Bugsy, which is when Normals are at their best. It surprisingly did well against some of the toughest Pokemon, being pretty favored against Miltank and beating Kingdra and Houndoom 1v1. It's mostly because of these 3 matchups that I think it deserves C.
25 Koffing 2HKO's Gastly who cursed and did 3/58 with Lick, 1HKO'd Haunter with a crit who missed Hypnosis, 1HKO'd Gengar who used Mean Look then 1HKO'd Haunter who used Spite. Without the crit the last Haunter should have won. Koffing is slower than all.
30 Koffing 2HKO's Primeape taking 9/69 from Karate Chop and 1HKO's Poliwrath with Self-Destruct taking 49/68 from Surf. Koffing is slower than all.
31 Koffing 3HKO's Seel with Rollout taking 12/71 from Aurora Beam, 1HKO's Dewgone taking 30/71 from Aurora Beam and 1HKO's Piloswine with Self-Destruct or the 5th Rollout taking 50/71 from Blizzard.
31 Koffing 1HKO's Magnemite with Fire Blast and 2HKO's Steelix with Fire Blast taking 47/71 from Iron Tail
31 Koffing 3HKO's Golbat with Rollout taking 20/71 from Wing Attack, 1HKO's Magnemite with Fireblast, 2HKO's Haunter with Rollout who just curses, 2HKO Sneasel taking 21/71 from Feint Attack and 2HKO's Quilava taking 36/71 from Flame Wheel. Golbat, Haunter, Sneasel and Quilava are faster.
37 Weezing 2HKO's Dragonair with Przcureberry Sludge Bomb taking 27/102 from Surf and 1HKO's Kingdra with Self-Destruct taking 65/102 from Surf. Sludge Bomb is a 3HKO. Kingdra is faster
39 Weezing 1HKO's Sneasel with Sludge Bomb taking 1/108 from Fury Cutter, 1HKO's Kadabra taking 34/108 from Future Sight, 2HKO's Golbat with Charcoal Fire Blast taking 17/110 from Wing Attack, 1HKO's Magneton with Charcoal Fire Blast, 1HKO's Haunter with Charcoal Fire Blast and 2HKO's Typhlosion with Sludge Bomb taking 38/110 from Flame Wheel. Sneasel, Kadabra, Haunter and Typhlosion are faster. I let Sneasel attack me 6 times and it would only use Screech and Fury Cutter.
40 Weezing is 1HKO'd and slower than Xatu and Jynx. Sludge Bomb 2HKO's Exeggutor and 4HKO's Slowbro who 1HKO's with Psychic but Self-Destruct 1HKO's
40 Weezing 1HKO's Ariados, Forretress and Venomoth with Charcoal Fire Blast while Venomoth does 76/110 with Psychic, Muk will PP stall your Sludge Bomb so you have to explode to 1HKO and Sludge Bomb 9HKO's Crobat after Hyper Potion taking 25/110 with Wing Attack. Crobat is faster
40 Weezing 2HKO's Hitmontop taking 30/110 from Dig, 3HKO's Onix with Fireblast taking 52/110 from Earthquake, 2HKO's Hitmonlee taking 19/110 from Hi Jump Kick 2HKO's Hitmonchan taking 15/110 from Fire Punch, and 3HKO's Machamp with 1 Fire Blast and 2 Sludge Bomb taking 32/110 from Rock Slide. With a Bitter Berry it's easy to get +2 attack from Hitmonlee's Swagger.
41 Weezing 4HKO's Umbreon taking 26/114 from Sand Attack, Charcoal Fire Blast 1HKO's Gengar after Curse, Sludge Bomb 2HKO's Murkrow taking 38/113 from Feint Attack, Fire Blast+Sludge Bomb 2HKO's (Sludge Bomb 3HKO's) Vileplume taking 48/113 from Petal Dance and Self-Destruct 1HKO's Houndoom taking 85/113 from Flame Thrower. Gengar, Murkrow and Houndoom are faster.
41 Weezing 3HKO's Gyarados taking 69/113 from Rain Surf, 4HKO's 47 Dragonite taking 69/113 from Hyper Beam 3HKO's Aerodactyl with Rollout (2HKO's with Sludge Bomb+Pink Bow SelfDestruct) taking 52/113 from Hyper Beam, Self-Destruct 1HKO's (Rollout 2HKO's) Charizard taking 85/113 from Flame Thrower and Pink Bow Self-Destruct 1HKO's Dragonite taking 78/113 from Outrage. Everything is faster than Weezing.
Good Matchups: Chuck, Jasmine, Rival 5, Koga,
Ok Matchups: Morty, Pryce, Clair, Karen
Bad Matchups: Rival 4, Will, Lance

Koffing really wishes it had Strength or even Headbutt to deal with the many poison types you run into. Evolving at 37 is too late and wild Weezing is a 1% encounter. Your best moves are 30 BP Smog and Rollout until 21. One of the more important Pokemon you'd like to explode on is Miltank but you don't have it yet. The only really important thing Fire Blast hits is Steelix but there are plenty of times where it comes into use. Even with Fire Blast you still don't match Pineco's usefulness from Steel typing but explosion is still good enough to justify D rank.
30 Primeape 3HKO's Primeape with Karate Chop taking 25/88 from Karate Chop and 4HKO's Poliwrath with Karate Chop taking 51/88 from Dynamic Punch
30 Primeape 2HKO's Seel with Karate Chop taking 11/88 from , 2HKO's Dewgong with Karate Chop taking 22/88 from Aurora Beam and 2HKO's Piloswine with Karate Chop taking 40/88 from Blizzard
32 Primeape 1HKO's Magnemite with Karate Chop and 3HKO's Steelix with Charcoal Fire Punch taking 65/93 from Iron Tail. 33 Primeape 2HKO's Steelix taking 61/96 from Iron Tail.
32 Primeape 3HKO's Golbat with Strength taking 55/94 from Wing Attack, 1HKO's Magnemite with Karate Chop, 1HKO's Haunter with Dig, 2HKO's Qilava with Dig taking 25/96 from Flame Wheel and 1HKO's Sneasel with Karate Chop taking 15/96 from Quick Attack.
37 Primeape 3HKO's Dragonairs with Karate Chop taking 26/108 from Slam and 4HKO's Kingdra with 2 Leer and 2 Strength taking 62/108 from Hyper Beam
39 Primeape 1HKO's Sneasel with Karate Chop, 2HKO's Golbat with Pink Bow Strength taking 54/114 from Wing Attack, 1HKO's Kadabra with Strength, 1HKO's Haunter with Dig, 2HKO's Typhlosion with Dig taking 35/114 from Flame Wheel and 1HKO's Magneton with Dig.
40 Primeape needs Pink Bow to 2HKO with Strength 40 Xatu taking 104/116 from Psychic, Strength 4HKO's Slowbro who does 104/116 with Psychic, Strength 2HKO's Jynx who 1HKO's with Psychic, 4HKO's Exeggutor who 1HKO's with Psychic and 3HKO's 42 Xatu who 1HKO's with Psychic.
40 Primeape 2HKO's Ariados with Pink Bow Strength, 2HKO's Venomoth who Super Sonics, 4HKO's Crobat taking 95/116 from Wing Attack, 5HKO's Forretress with Leer and Karate Chop taking 18/116 from Swift and 3HKO's Muk with Dig taking 64/116 from Sludge Bomb. Crobat is faster
40 Primeape 3HKO's Hitmontop with Karate Chop negating his dig with my dig, 2HKO's Hitmonlee taking 71/116 from Hi Jump Kick, 3HKO's Hitmonchan taking 31/116 from Mach Punch, 4HKO's Machamp taking 108/116 from Cross Chop and Karate Chop 3HKO's Onix taking 41/116 from Earthquake.
40 Primeape 3HKO's Umbreon with Karate Chop taking 14/116 from Feint Attack, 1HKO's Gengar after Curse with Dig, 4HKO's Vileplume with Strength taking 47/116 from Petal Dance, 2HKO's Murkrow taking 17/119 from Feint Attack and 2HKO's Houndoom taking 75/116 from Flame Thrower. Gengar for some reason didn't Destiny Bond.
42 Primeape 2HKO's Gyarados with Thunder Punch who Rain Dances, 3HKO's Aerodactyl with NMI Ice Punch taking 109/122 from Wing Attack, Strength 3HKO's Charizard taking 89/122 from Wing Attack, Ice Punch 2HKO's Dragonites taking 111/122 and 120/122 from Hyper Beam. Aerodactyl is faster.
Good Matchups: Pryce, Jasmine, Rival 4, Rival 5, Karen
Ok Matchups: Lance
Bad Matchups: Chuck, Clair, Will, Koga, Bruno,

Mankey somehow has a hard time starting off despite how weak the trainers are at that point due to poor type matchups and 40/35/45 bulk but once it evolves it's good at routes. It has enough speed and attack but you're stuck with Karate Chop, Dig and Strength as 45 is just too late for Cross Chop without favoritism and for some reason it doesn't learn Earth Quake. It doesn't excel at many fights but it contributes enough to warrant C.

TLDR:
Chikorita->C
Aipom->C
Koffing->D
Mankey->C

Nothing surprising this time.
 
Speeded all my way to Clair after restart, most of the performance are still the same as the previous one.
Furret L38
Return 2HKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra. Kingdra 2HKOs back with Surf

Raticate L38
Return 2HKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra. Kingdra 2HKOs back with Surf

Heracross L38
Return 2HKOs Dragonair and 3HKOs Kingdra

Cloyster L38
Nevermeltice Aurora Beam has a roll to 1HKO Dragonair(though it has much bigger chance at 1HKOing) and 4HKOs Kingdra(so close to 3HKOing).Kingdra 2HKOs back with Dragonbreath.
Furret L39-40
Pink Bow Return 1HKOs Sneasel and Kadabra and 2HKOs Golbat and Meganium (3HKOs after it uses Reflect turn 1)
Dig 1HKOs Magneton and 2HKOs Haunter.

Raticate L39-40
Pink Bow Return 1HKOs Sneasel and Kadabra and 2HKOs Golbat and Meganium (3HKOs after it uses Reflect turn 1)
Dig 1HKOs Magneton and 2HKOs Haunter

Heracross L39
Rock Smash 1HKOs Sneasel
Earthquake 1HKOs Magneton and Haunter
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Golbat, 1HKOs Kadabra, and 3HKOs Meganium(total of 4HKO if it uses Reflect turn 1)

Cloyster L39
MysticWater Surf 2HKOs Sneasel, Magneton and Kadabra(close to 1HKOing), and has a roll to 1HKO Haunter
Aurora Beam 2HKOs Golbat and Meganium
Furret L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Xatus, 1HKOs Jynx, and 3HKOs Exeggutor and Slowbro.

Raticate L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Xatus, 3HKOs Exeggutor and Slowbro, and has a roll to 1HKO Jynx.

Heracross L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Xatu, 1HKOs Jynx, 3HKOs Exeggutor and Slowbro.

Cloyster L40
Nevermeltice Aurora Beam 1HKOs L40 Xatu, 2HKOs Exeggutor, and has a roll to 1HKO L42 Xatu. Xatu outspeeds, Exeggutor 1HKOs back
Surf 3HKOs Jynx(close to 2HKOing)
Return appears to be a 6HKO on Slowbro
Furret L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Ariados and Venomoth, and 3HKOs Muk and Crobat
Surf 5HKOs Forretress

Raticate L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Ariados and Venomoth, 3HKOs Muk and Crobat

Forretress always uses Protect on the 2nd turn of Dig. Raticate can attempt to Super Fang it in range of using Explosion then Dig to avoid the damage. Forretress 4HKOs back with Swift

Heracross L40
Pink Bow Return 2HKOs Ariados and Venomoth
Earthquake 4HKOs Forretress and 2HKOs Muk
Crobat 1HKOs with Wing Attack

Cloyster L40
MysticWater Surf 2HKOs Ariados, Venomoth, and Forretress, and 3HKOs Muk
Aurora Beam 2HKOs Crobat. Venomoth 2HKOs back with Psychic.
Furret L41
Return 2HKOs the Hitmons(close to 1HKOing Hitmonlee) and 3HKOs Machamp
Surf 1HKOs Onix. Machamp 1HKOs back.

Raticate L41
Return 2HKOs the Hitmons(close to 1HKOing Hitmonlee) and 3HKOs Machamp.
Hitmonlee and Machamp 1HKOs back.
Dig appears to be a 3HKO or 4HKO on Onix. Onix 2HKOs back with Earthquake.

Heracross L41
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Hitmontop(close to 2HKOing) and Machamp, 2HKOs Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan. Machamp almost 3HKOs back.
Earthquake 2HKOs Onix.

Cloyster L41
MysticWater Surf 1HKOs Onix, 3HKOs Machamp, and has a roll to 2HKO Hitmons. Hitmonlee 2HKOs back, Hitmonchan 3HKOs back
Furret L41
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Umbreon, 2HKOs Murkrow and Houndoom. Houndoom outspeeds and 2HKOs back.
Dig is so close at 1HKO Gengar after a Curse.

Raticate L41
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Umbreon, 2HKOs Murkrow and Houndoom. Raticate outspeeds Houndoom.
Dig failed to 1HKO Gengar after a Curse.

Heracross L41
Its Fight STAB against Umbreon is still a 20 BP Rock Smash.
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Umbreon and Vileplume, and 2HKOs Murkrow
Earthquake KOs Gengar after a Curse and 1HKOs Houndoom. Heracross has a chance to survived a Flamethrower at full health.

Cloyster L41
MysticWater Surf 4HKOs Umbreon and 2HKOs Gengar. Umbreon 3HKOs back.
Aurora Beam 2HKOs Vileplume and 1HKOs Murkrow. Murkrow outspeeds and Faint Attack puts Cloyster in yellow while Vileplume 1HKOs back.
Houndoom outspeeds and 1HKOs with Flamethrower.
Furret L42
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados, and Dragonites and 2HKOs Charizard. Dragonite 2HKOs back with Thunder/Blizzard/Outrage, Charizard 2HKOs back
Surf 3HKOs Aerodactyl

Raticate L42
Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados, and Dragonites, and 2HKOs Charizard. Raticate outspeeds Charizard. All Dragonites 1HKOs back with Hyper Beam, Charizard 2HKOs back.
Aerodactyl is a no

Heracross L42
Return 3HKOs Gyarados and L47 Dragonites, and 4HKOs L50 Dragonite. L47 Dragonites 2HKOs back with Hyper Beam while L50 Dragonite 2HKOs back with Fire Blast, Aerodactyl and Charizard 1HKOs back with Wing Attack.

Heracross can attempt to tank Hyper Beams with Endure.

Cloyster L42
Nevermeltice Aurora Beam 4HKOs Gyarados, and has a roll to 1HKO L47 Dragonites. Cloyster gets outsped by Dragonites(Level 43 Cloyster speedtie with L47 Dragonite); Blizzard one 3HKOs back with Twister while Thunder one 1HKOs back. Level 50 Dragonite outspeeds and 1HKOs with Outrage.
Surf is so close to 1HKOing Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl 2HKOs back.
Charizard outspeeds and 1HKOs with Flamethrower
Sentret and Rattata
First Sentret, its early game is a little bit awkward because of its low speed until Level 11 (Level 10 Sentret can sometimes failed to escape a wild Level 4 Pidgey). But i appreciate its somewhat better bulk than Rattata sometimes. As for Rattata, early strong STAB is great despite occasionally missing. Its slightly better speed than Furret can help it sometimes. Both have incredible availability, can perform fine, but would fall off in the endgame. Going for B Tier for both, but C is fine i guess

Heracross
Heracross is just a Normal-type with no STAB (Rock Smash is more of a coverage because its weak), but its fine with that considering its high Attack stat. Aside from that awful Morty matchup, I found it fine on its own. Its typing does help it against Chuck and Bruno, but its just average overall. Slow leveling rate can hurt, but i see leveling rate as minor in general. Going for C Tier on this one.

Shellder(Crystal)
Cloyster is a decent Water-type but man, Shellder is weak unevolve and heavily needs that Water Stone. While it gets STAB Aurora Beam by default, that's pretty much its Ice STAB for the entire game as Ice Beam is so late(L49 as Shellder) compared to Seel(delayed evolution) and Lapras; they can get it around Clair, and Cloyster uses Surf most likely until around Clair. Low Special Defense hurts a lot against Kingdra, Will, and getting instantly KOed by Houndoom, Outrage Dragonite and Charizard, even Chuck's Poliwrath can 3HKO with Surf despite resisting it. Its speed is only decent at best, and i didn't like it getting outsped by Dragonite while them exploiting its aforementioned low special bulk. Slow leveling rate can hurt too if you want to count that. I actually wanted to nominate this as C Tier and focused a lot on Cloyster's potential during this entire test(reasoning for i didn't have fully gathered my thoughts on the others, mbad), but D is fine if these flaws are enough to put there, i actually feel like it belongs there a bit.

Sentret - B/C
Rattata - B/C
Heracross - C
Shellder(Crystal) - C/D
I am attempting on doing another Crystal run using Growlithe, Krabby(Old Rod), Sunkern, and Slowbro(Post-Morty)
 
Alright, thanks for clearing that up. I might do egg move breeding runs anyway, but won't bother posting them here unless they show such improvement that they could be argued for being ranked above the non-bred Pokemon, which shouldn't happen unless Flail Farfetch'd sweeps the whole game or something like that.

Yeah, Quick Claw is a minor improvement, but still one that should be factored since it does boost slow Pokemon like Sudowoodo a little. Could be the slight edge that pushes a Pokemon from being borderline between two tiers to just being in the higher tier.
Yeah, Quick Claw could be clutch enough to push it to C-tier, even tho I don't think that will be enough.

Anyway, onto the mons I used :

Falkner (11) : Pidgey is OHKOed by Rock Throw and it takes 2 to ko Pidgeotto. Barring extreme Mud Slap unluck (and the move barely does damages), it's an easy win.
Bugsy (18) : Metapod and Kakuna are outsped and OHKO. Scyther does nothing with Fury Cutter and gets OHKOed. Perfect.
Rival 2 (20) : Obvious win against Zubat and Gastly. Flee Macronium
Whitney (22) : Defense Curl and Rollout 2HKOes and OHKOes Miltank. Easy win.
Rival 3 (23) : OHKO Haunter with Magnitude. Flee Macronium and OHKO Zubat and Magnemite.
Morty (25) : Just spam Magnitude and that's an easy win as long as you avoid Hypnosis and you hit Gengar with Magnitude 7 or more. I guess Graveler would make this more consitent but it's still a highly probable win.
Chuck (31) : Beats Primeape and that's it.
Jasmine (31) : only beats Magnemite that are outsped. Steelix takes even 2 Magnitude 9 and Iron Tail is an OHKO sadly.
Pryce (31) : only beats Seel, Dewgong outspeeds, takes a hit and 2HKOes with Aurora Beam. Piloswine isn't 2HKOed and OHKOes back with Blizzard.
Silver (32) : 2HKO Golbat with Rock Throw, flee Meganium, outspeed and OHKO Magnemite with magnitude, OHKO Haunter and Sneasel.
Clair (38) : only wins against the Dragonair with Thunderbolt.
Rival 4 (40) : OHKO Sneasel, flee Meganium, OHKO the rest. You beat the whole team except for Meganium as Kadabra goes for Future Sight.
Will (40) : Psychic from first Xatu 2HKOes, it can beat it if lucky with Confusion but that's it. Poor matchup as it only wins against one Xatu.
Koga (40) : outspeed and 2HKO Ariados (it's good as long as it doesn't use Giga Drain), muscle through Foretress that doesn't do much back, 2HKO Muk, Crobat and Venomoth. Pretty good even though between confusion, Toxic and evasion, it can get annoying.
Bruno (41) : OHKO Hitmontop with Earthquake as it goes for Dig. Hitmonlee 2HKOes so you can't beat it. Hitmonchan 3HKoes with Ice Punch while getting koed. Machamp is too be avoided.
Karen (41) : 3HKO Umbreon but Sand Attack and Confuse Ray suck. 2HKO Murkrow that sometimes go for Whirlwind. Gengar is OHKOed and goes for Curse. Vileplume obviously needs to be avoided. Houndoom nearly OHKoes with Crunch but gets koed back by Earthquake, meaning you shouldn't take damages before it.
Lance (41) : Gyarados obviously koes. You can take down Charizard or Aero (Rock Slide + Hyper Beam + Flamethrower koes) and that's it because Dragonite just does too much damages and isn't even 2HKOed by Rock Throw.


Whitney (19) : Weirdly enough, Exeggcute is really strong here. SleepSeed is broken and you can always set up Reflect. Beating Clefairy is easy with Hypnosis and Leech Seed and you can setup Reflect. Defeating it, you can fight Miltank with full health and then it uses Rollout that does paltry damages and then you can put it too sleep, use Leech Seed and win between residual damages and Confusion. It's surprising but Exeggcute wins without any troubles here barring extreme unluck. Clefairy just doesn't do much you have Leech Seed to stay healthy and with Reflect and Hypnosis can't start Rollout.
Rival 3 (23) : If haunter uses Curse it can't win against Macronium, you still ko it without any damages tho. Macronium is beaten 1v1 and gets 5HKOed when Razor Leaf 7HKOes. Then you can heal on Magnemite and outspeed and OHKO Zubat. Pretty nice battle.
Morty (25) : Confusion OHKOes Gastly as it uses Lick or Curse, Haunter are 2HKOed so if first uses Curse, it will get koed. Gengar is 3HKOed and Shadow Ball does way too much to consider koing it. Depends if Haunter uses Night Shade but you can ko Gastly and possibly both Haunter.
Chuck (30) : Confusion nearly OHKOes Primeape and 2HKOes Poliwrath which is outsped. Solid win as both can't do much.
Jasmine (30) : Magnemite are easily beatable by 2 Confusion + 3 Leech Seed but then you're paralysed and Steelix wins. Otherwise, you can beat Steelix with sleepSeed and Reflect and the second Magnemite.
Pryce (31) : Confusion is just too weak, it can take down Seel and that's it.
Rival 4 (32) : 2HKO Golbat that outspeeds, avoid Sneasel, 3HKO Magnemite with Confusion + Leech Seed, Meganium is 4HKOed and beatable. Haunter uses Curse so Confusion kills it. Kinda hard due to paralysis but it can at still put work.
Clair (38) : 3HKO Dragonair and is 5HKOed (except by the one with Ice Beam) so it can take down 2 Dragonair. Beat Kingdra 1v1 thanks to Leech Seed and not even being 2HKOed by Hyper Beam.
Rival 5(40) : Really strange battle. Sneasel is OHKOed by SunnyBeam. Between PoisonPowder and Body Slam and possible paralysis, it's hard to get past Meganium. Avoid Magneton because 2 Sonic Boom will ko. SolarBeam against Kadabra that goes for Future Sight. Avoid Haunter that has Shadow Ball. You can ko 2 mons so it's alright.
Will (40) : First Xatu isn't 2HKOed by Solar Beam and between confusion and Psychic won't be easy to get past. Only beats Slowbro.
Koga (40) : Confusion 2HKOes Ariados (pretty close to OHKOing it) and Venomoth that don't do much back. Foretress is only 6HKOed and will use Explosion. Confusion 2HKOes Crobat that goes for Toxic and Wing Attack and Muk doesn't seem to attack and is 3HKOed.
Bruno (41) : 2HKOes Hitmontop as it goes for Pursuit, 2HKO Hitmonchan that goes for Fire Punch and then Hitmonkee can ko with High Jump Kick. Otherwise you can beat Machamp easily 1v1, getting 2HKOed by Confusion and doing average damages with Rock Slide and take down Onix in the process. Hitmonlee is 2HKOed and won't be hard to take down. You can ko 3 mons (Onix+Hitmonlee+Machamp) at most so that's alright.
Karen (41) : Umbreon is 3HKOed by Solar Beam and can be put to sleep. Murkrow 2HKOes with Faint Attack so avoid it. VIleplume and Gengar doe low damages and are 2HKOed by Confusion (even though getting para'd is annoying). Houndoom is obviously too much for it.
Lance (42) : Gyarados can't take 2 SolarBeam and gets put to sleep. Dragonite aren't beatable because Confusion is too weak. You're not getting past Charizard and Aero (unless good Sleep luck).


Silver (23) : 2HKO Haunter as it uses Curse with Surf. 2HKO Magnemite and Macronium with Strength. OHKO Zubat. As long as Macronium doesn't use Reflect and Magnemite hits SonicBoom, it's a win.
Morty (25) : OHKO Gastly thanks to Curse, flee Haunter 1. Haunter 2 is 3/4HKOed by Surf and can't do anything back. Haunter 1 is 2HKOed if it uses Curse. Gengar is only 6HKOed so it's nearly impossible to beat. Alright matchup considering the type disadvantage.
Chuck (31) : Pink Bow Strength OHKOes Primeape and 2HKOes Poliwrath. Wins most of the time as it can take Dynamic Punch. Better than expected.
Jasmine (31) : Steelix is 3HKOed by Surf and even a Screech iron Tail is taken. Otherwise you can beat a Magnemite with 2 Strength and weaken another.
Pryce (32) : OHKO Seel and 2HKO Dewgong and Piloswine with Strength. No issue here as you easily take Aurora Beam + Blizzard.
Rival 4 (33) : 2HKO Golbat with Strength. Magnemite is 2HKOed but para sucks. 4HKO Meganium that uses Reflect first turn while only being 5HKOed by Razor Leaf or 3HKO if it doesn't use it and it uses Poison Powder and Razor Leaf. Haunter and Sneasel are both OHKOed by Iron Tail (you can use Strength that 2HKOes for the latter if healthy enough seeing you outspeed it). Can defeat rival under most circumstances.
Clair (38) : 2HKO Dragonair and Kingdra. Seeing as Dragonair paralyses and gets 5HKOed, it can take down 2 Dragonair if lucky and weaken another one. Beating Kingdra 1v1 is amazing.
Rival 5 (40) : outspeed and OHKO Sneasel. OHKO Magneton, Haunter and Kadabra (Earthquake and Strength/Return). Golbat and Meganium are 2HKOed by Return. Really solid win.
Will (41) : 2HKO first Xatu, taking 40% in the process, OHKO Jynx, flee Exeggutor as it gets the ko. Slowbro is 3HKOed so it depends what moves it uses. You can take down both Xatus as 2 Psychic doesn't ko as well as Jynx and potentially Slowbro according to IA
Koga (41) : 2HKO Ariados and Venomoth. Avoid Foretress and 2HKO Muk and Crobat (which outspeeds).
Bruno (42) : Return + Earthquake 2HKOes Hitmontop as it goes for Dig. Return OHKOes Hitmonlee and 2HKOes Hitmonchan that goes for Mach Punch, doing 60%. Machamp OHKOes with Cross Chop and is only 2HKOed. Onix barely does damages so you can take it down with 2 Earthquake. Pretty good matchup considering the type disadvantage as you take down 4 mons
Karen (42) : Umbreon is 3HKOed by Return. Murkrow is OHKoed and Vileplume 2HKOed. Gengar is outsped and OHKO by Earthquake. Houndom doesn't ko with Flamethrower and is otusped and 2HKOed. Quite nice match, taking down 4 mons if you avoid Vileplume.
Lance (42) : 2HKO Gyara with Return as it goes for Rain Dance. Dragonite are sadly only 3HKOed so you can only beat Dragonite 1/2 (Outrage sadly 2HKOes) as they paralyse. You can also 1v1 Charizard or Aero. Pretty bad as you can only ko 2 mons (Gyara + a level 47 Dragonite/Aero/Charizard).


Chuck (30) : Strength 2HKOes Primeape which is outsped and 3HKOes Poliwrath. The latter can be annoying with Hypnosis and Dynamic Punch but it barely does damages so it's alright.
Jasmine (30) : Magnemite takes a Surf and Thunderbolt kills Gyara. Steelix sets up Sunny Day so it's either Surf into Sunny Day into ko or Hyper Potion into the 3HKO and you confortably take 2 Rock Throw.
Pryce (31) : 2HKO Seel and Dewgong with Strength, 2HKO Piloswine with Surf, they do almost nothing so it's very easy to win.
Rival 4 (33): 2HKO Golbat with Strength, OHKO Magnemite with Surf. Meganium uses Poison Powder but you 3HKO it. Haunter is 2HKOed by Surf and uses Curse, killing itself. Sneasel is 2HKOed by Strength. Puts it work but between poison, Curse and damages it won't beat the whole team. Clair (38) : Wins against Kingdra 1v1 as it 3HKOes and takes paltry damages. Dragonair are 2HKOed but Thunder Wave is really annoying to deal with and one of them has Thunderbolt.
Rival 5 (40) : outspeed and 2HKO Sneasel with Surf. Avoid Magneton as Surf doesn't ko and you get paralysed and hit hard by Thundershock. 2HKO Golbat with Strength. 2HKO Haunter with Surf and OHKO Kadabra with Strength. Problem is that Haunter uses Curse and between it, PoisonPowder and Reflect, it can't defeat Meganium.
Will (41) : Gyarados outspeeds everything. Strength 2HKOes Xatus and Jynx (it might be my IVs seeing it koed for Ryota) and you can muscle through Slowbro with repeated Strength according to what it uses. Exeggutor is too much though, even if it's beatable 1v1 (so you can take it down it and Jynx). Kinda luck reliant due to Confuse Ray but not bad.
Koga (41): 2HKO Ariados and Venomoth and 3HKO Foretress, 3HKO Muk and Crobat. Really uncertain between Explosion from Foretress evasion, poison and confusion. Still pretty good but it's unlikely to win by itself.
Bruno (41) : 2HKO Hitmontop that goes for Quick Attack and Hitmonchan that does low damages with Thunder Punch then OHKOes Onix with Surf. Machamp is only 3HKOed and 2HKOes with Rock Slide. Hitmonlee is 2HKOed outsped and does nothing back. You can take down 4 mons but lose to the signature Pokemon.
Karen (42) : Umbreon is 4HKOed by Strength but confusion and Sand Attack are annoying. Outspeed and 2HKO Murkrow with Strength. Gengar is 3HKOed by Surf (needs 2 hits if it uses Curse). Vileplume is 3HKOed by Strength but para is annoying. Houndoom is 2HKOed by Surf but Crunch 3HKOes. Pretty good overall but it can't take too much damages for Houndoom and risks getting paralysed.
Lance (42) : Gyarados is outsped, 3HKOed and uses Hyper Beam, doing half. Charizard doesn't do much and gets 2HKOed by Surf. Aero takes a Surf and 2HKOes with Rock Slide. Dragonite 3 is only 4HKOed and 3HKOes with Outrage.




I actually used DST Trick to get LeafStone and I used it just before Chuck. I played on Crystal version because it's the only way to get the Leaf Stone I think. I also reset the clock to get the Pink Bow for Tauros (I used the one given in radio tower for Gyara).

Geodude feels B-tier to me. It's without a doubt the best mon for the early game, winning with ease against the first 4 gym leaders. It's way less good afterwards tho. Poliwrath from Chuck is too much, Steelix is nearly impossile to get past, you only beat Seel against Pryce and it's hard to get past only a mon against Clair. The Elite 4 was also pretty bad with the exception of Koga. It wasn't even guaranted to kill a Xatu against Will, beating Hitmontop and Hitmonchan against Bruno was nice but it wasn't that important and against Karen, it could only barely take down 2 mons at best. Koga was surprisingly nice but even then between evasion, accuracy drop and confusion the match was far from guaranteed. Lance was incredibly painfull as even taking down Charizard + Aerodactyl wasn't possible.... Adding to that, after the 4th gym the grinding wasn't particularly easy because Graveler is slow and there were lots of water-types. Also, relying on unaccurate moves like Rollout and Rock Throw and on Magnitude isn't good. To be fair, I found Tauros a bit better and still don't think it's A-tier worthy.

By the way, I think Golem and Graveler should be merged. I haven't used Golem in ages but it seems really similar to Graveler anyway. The first 4 gyms are exactly the same and it should have the same losing matchs (Chuck, Jasmine, Pryce, Clair, Will, Koga and Lance) with the only advantage of probably taking down both Charizard and Aerodactyl against Lance and being somewhat better vs Steelix from Jasmine. But even with this A-tier feels too high for it.

Tauros is also B-tier. It's the best mon in this run imo. It swept with ease in several matchs (Chuck, Pryce and Rival most notably) and always contributed heavily in others, except for Morty. Tauros was incredibly consistent through the run and had some decisive battles in which it was far better than expected like Chuck and Bruno (taking down 4 mons in an important battle with a type disadvantage is amazing).Sadly, it can't be higher than B-tier because it's found in mid-game, at a low encounter rate, hardly loses to Morty, requires several important tms (Return and Earthquake) and Lance wasn't good enough. Still, it was really fun to use, always helping in battle and the Pokemon I used here. I'm looking forwards to using other Normal-types because Tauros was really great.

Exeggutor is probably the weirdest mon I've ever used but C-tier feels adequate for it. Grinding Exeggcute to level 19 was painfull because it only has Barrage. Getting Leaf Stone though DST trick was also annoying because it required to New Bark Town. That being said it was actually pretty helpful, defeating Whitney and Chuck with ease. Pryce was pretty bad (even though value Whitney matchup way more). Now, other gym leaders/Elite 4, Exeggutor was weird in the fact that it was mostly good against the signature mon, beating Steelix, Kingdra and Machamp most notably. It's hard to rank but C-tier seems the best for it, it has a strong matchup against WHitney and Chuck, can beat either the 2 Magnemite or Steelix from Jasmine, Kingdra from Clair and Slowbro from Will. The Elite 4 is rather good because it does well against Koga and Bruno and can defeat Lance's Gyarados. This will probably needs more tests because it's not easy to choose a rank but that was fun to use.

Gyarados is B-tier. It comes late but at a nice level. Its matchup are quite good even though not being able to take down Magnemite from Jasmine sucks. Being a HM Slave that is still useful in game is great (especially seeing as how except for Poliwag, Waterfall is learnt by very few easily available water-types). Gyara has strong performance against Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix and Pryce as well as Will, Koga and Bruno. Lance and Clair were pretty bad tho and the fact it comes rather late make me feel B-tier is perfect for it.


I'll be using Rattata, Magmar, Caterpie and Jynx in the next run.
 
I'll be using Rattata, Magmar, Caterpie and Jynx in the next run.
I'm assuming you're grabbing the Route 31 Caterpie? Looking forward to what you think of it. A few tips from my run:
-Don't make my mistake, remember Sprout Tower's sages are perfect for training your Route 30-31 Caterpie.

-Harden is Butterfree's friend against Falkner and Whitney. Giving Butterfree a Berry to hold and fully setting up on Pidgey lets it take on Falkner's Pidgeotto, and similarly fully setting up on Whitney's Clefairy lets it take early Rollouts well enough that it should be able to handle Miltank just fine. Supersonic is also good to use while Miltank is asleep to prevent it from reliably using Milk Drink on wake up.

-Don't be afraid to teach Butterfree Flash, if you don't want to use Supersonic or Harden spamming Flash on Miltank after putting it to sleep can make it easy for its teammates to avoid being swept by it, and can also play support against Pryce's Piloswine or Jasmine's Steelix if you don't feel comfortable trying to have Butterfree solo those fights.

-Make sure to deliver KENYA's mail to Route 31. Nightmare is Butterfree's best source of damage past Morty, and probably the only way it can beat Dark-types, Pryce and especially Jasmine.

-Chuck uses Full Heal once on his Poliwrath, don't bother setting up Nightmare on Turn 2. Just hit it with Confusion then put it back to sleep after the Full Heal is used up.

-Bryce and Jasmine WILL get to use Hyper Potion on their Piloswine/Steelix, so the Nightmare strategy is a bit shakier than usual since I think they are guaranteed to wake up before Butterfree can finish them off and land massive damage with Blizzard/Rock Throw. I didn't think of Flash until after I fought them so maybe spamming Flash after Sleep + Nightmare is set up could make the matchup more consistent by making it very hard to hit Butterfree on wakeup in the first place.

Basically, Butterfree can take any fight where it A) outspeeds the opponent and B) isn't OHKO'd if the opponent wakes up and lands a hit-- so far this has only happened while Butterfree was a few levels below the Gym's ace, and even then they were rolls and Butterfree could still survive them.
 
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I'm assuming you're grabbing the Route 31 Caterpie? Looking forward to what you think of it. A few tips from my run:
-Don't make my mistake, remember Sprout Tower's sages are perfect for training your Route 30-31 Caterpie.

-Harden is Butterfree's friend against Falkner and Whitney. Giving Butterfree a Berry to hold and fully setting up on Pidgey lets it take on Falkner's Pidgeotto, and similarly fully setting up on Whitney's Clefairy lets it take early Rollouts well enough that it should be able to handle Miltank just fine. Supersonic is also good to use while Miltank is asleep to prevent it from reliably using Milk Drink on wake up.

-Don't be afraid to teach Butterfree Flash, if you don't want to use Supersonic or Harden spamming Flash on Miltank after putting it to sleep can make it easy for its teammates to avoid being swept by it, and can also play support against Pryce's Piloswine or Jasmine's Steelix if you don't feel comfortable trying to have Butterfree solo those fights.

-Make sure to deliver KENYA's mail to Route 31. Nightmare is Butterfree's best source of damage past Morty, and probably the only way it can beat Dark-types, Pryce and especially Jasmine.

-Chuck uses Full Heal once on his Poliwrath, don't bother setting up Nightmare on Turn 2. Just hit it with Confusion then put it back to sleep after the Full Heal is used up.

-Bryce and Jasmine WILL get to use Hyper Potion on their Piloswine/Steelix, so the Nightmare strategy is a bit shakier than usual since I think they are guaranteed to wake up before Butterfree can finish them off and land massive damage with Blizzard/Rock Throw. I didn't think of Flash until after I fought them so maybe spamming Flash after Sleep + Nightmare is set up could make the matchup more consistent by making it very hard to hit Butterfree on wakeup in the first place.

Basically, Butterfree can take any fight where it A) outspeeds the opponent and B) isn't OHKO'd if the opponent wakes up and lands a hit-- so far this has only happened while Butterfree was a few levels below the Gym's ace, and even then they were rolls and Butterfree could still survive them.
Thanks for the advices, I'm going to do all of this. I'm planning to use the route 31 Caterpie. While I expected to train in the Sprout Towern I wouldn't have thought of the rest. Didn't think of Harden but Whitney is going to be interesting to see with your strats. Nightmare looks very promising and I'll definitely use it thanks. Wth your experience, I feel Butterfree will be way better than expected and could potentially end up in a higher tier. It seems solid as long as it outspeeds and doesn't get OHKOed by the opponent as you said.

I expect that C-tier will be adequate for Butterfree, B/C-tier for Ratticate, Magmar in A-tier and B-tier for Jynx (expect a great Clair and Elite 4 performance on it except for Karen and as it should outspeed Dragonite, Lance will be fun).
 

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