Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Clone]

I'd like to share some fun sets that I've been using lately. I've been enjoying OU a fair bit more lately than I used to. It's been an absolute blast to play OU lately actually -

The Best Pokemon and Best Set in OU

Nincada @ Eviolite
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Mud-Slap
- Skitter Smack
- Protect​

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Nincada: 46-54 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Nincada: 62-73 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 64.8% chance to 4HKO

Don't you judge me, you wish you could yeet Landorus-T this good. On god, I was absolutely fried earlier and ended up using this bad boy and he actually ruled. Never underestimate just how much you can piss people off with a hyper-physically bulky Toxic LC wall in OU that also slaps Mud-Slap.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon​

I have been having an absolute blast with this spooky boi. You'd be surprised how many people will just leave their Dragapult in on this guy expecting to outspeed and OHKO. Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse are fantastic in the current meta, Flamethrower and Flash Cannon are superb coverage for him as well. In addition, having an Earthquake immunity is always a plus.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Spirit Break
- Sucker Punch
- Power Whip​

Want something that will almost assure that you cripple at least two of your opponent's Pokemon if you play the prediction game right? Grimmsnarl is ya boi. Prankster Trick is incredible, Spirit Break is a fantastic STAB move that assures lowered Special Attack, Sucker Punch is fantastic STAB Priority, and Power Whip is to obliterate Swampert, Tapu Fini, the Slowtwins, and Tyranitar.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Protect​

I know forgoing Toxic can be blah sometimes (never fear, Nincada will pick up the slack), but I've found that replacing it with Earth Power has actually been really helpful in some additional surprise utility against opposing Heatran and specific switch-ins. The rest is pretty typical bulky rocks magma tran.

Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Darkest Lariat​

This thing never dies. Seriously, look at them thighs, puttin' TikTok to shame with those moon glutes. Just throw this thing in front of whatever thing you need bonked, and it'll get the damn bonk. Physical BoltBeam coverage, Darkest Lariat, and STAB Double Iron Bash, nothing escapes this thing other than Heatran.

I'd recommend trying U-turn over Flash Cannon on Hydreigon. Momentum is better than 40% on clef when it just soft boils on you as you're forced out or doing jack all to Fini. Hydreigon has some pretty telegraphed switchins so getting in a teammate to handle puts you in a better position.

On Heatran I'd consider Taunt > Protect to be able to trap pex that have had their shed shells knocked off, and because one of heatrans more common switchins is Urshifu-R, which bypasses Protect anyways. You also shut down passive mons giving you free turns

And for melmetal, put the HP EVs into SpDef. You'll start taking 0 damage from special attacks, and melmetals HP stat is insanely high to begin with

 

[Morkal]

I'd recommend trying U-turn over Flash Cannon on Hydreigon. Momentum is better than 40% on clef when it just soft boils on you as you're forced out or doing jack all to Fini. Hydreigon has some pretty telegraphed switchins so getting in a teammate to handle puts you in a better position.

On Heatran I'd consider Taunt > Protect to be able to trap pex that have had their shed shells knocked off, and because one of heatrans more common switchins is Urshifu-R, which bypasses Protect anyways. You also shut down passive mons giving you free turns

And for melmetal, put the HP EVs into SpDef. You'll start taking 0 damage from special attacks, and melmetals HP stat is insanely high to begin with

Oh man, with Melmetal specifically I noticed an immediate difference, and U-Turn on Hydreigon has been working great too, thanks dude! Honestly I've had notoriously bad luck with Taunt on Heatran so I think I'm gonna go back to Protect though, as usually Toxapex doesn't pose much of an issue for my team.

 

[Clone]

Can you not

 

[pulsar512b]

Can you not

honestly was a pretty decent post, i agree with them that cinderace is the only real option, although darm-g and urshi-ss arent the stupidest ever ig
The only real thing I disagree with is their assessment of dugtrio, there's a reason arena trap is consistently banned gen after gen- imagine something like volcarona+dugtrio to trap heatran

 

[YeetYolk07]

Hello! Maybe it’s just me, but Recently I have heard a lot of talk about suspecting some of the weaker Ubers in the tier. I think this would be a great time to suspect an Uber, because the metagame has been reasonably stable for the past four to five months. So now, because I’m bored, I will go through all the mons that were banned in OU this gen and see if they could posssibly be healthy for the tier.

View attachment 364712 : Before writing this I was ready to write this thing off as stupidly broken, but honestly it’s not that bad. Obviously it’s still broken, but the tier does have some OK checks to it such as Tapu Fini who is already fairly common, and it’s fairly prediction reliant due to its ability. Definitely would not want this back though.

View attachment 364714 The definition of unhealthy. Honestly, a lot of Gen 8 Pokémon are poorly balanced. There’s mons like Dracovish and Garm,who clearly were never play tested, and then there’s garbage like Grapploct in the lower tiers that have nothing going for them. Anyways, we all know what this does, and we all don’t really want to deal with it, so it’s gonna be a no from me.

View attachment 364716 Personally, I actually like Duggy and what it adds to a metagame, but i can absolutely see why people don’t. Since it’s hayday, OU has gained a few more Pokémon it feasts on, like Heatran and Tapu Koko. Honestly, just looking at the VR, I don’t think Duggy would be too bad for the current metagame, as most mons just don’t care/have ways around it, but it’s the suffocation that Duggy provides that makes it unhealthy. Unfortunate no from me.

View attachment 364717 Honestly, I think it’s about time to stop suspecting Genesect. Its been allowed in OU four times now and it’s always one of the first to go. I just don’t see a metagame where Genesect could ever be healthy. It’s crazy coverage and customizability means that no team could ever be prepared for all of Genesects nonsense.

View attachment 364718 With the addition of spikes to its move pool, Naganadel now has a reliable way of chipping down checks such as Heatran and ttar before coming in and cleaning up. This is probably the best snowball Pokémon in the entire game. It has almost perfect coverage, and can change around its stats to effect its Beast Boost. It’s speed tier is honestly amazing too. Another mon I just don’t ever see being healthy.

View attachment 364719 If this didn’t get Gravity I think it would be fine, but for now it’s just too strong for the tier. Not much to say.

View attachment 364721 Dragon Dance was too much for it. With just one D Dance, it could blow away the majority of the current tier. Icicle spear is nice, but unreliable. If current teams have trouble checking regular kyurem, I don’t think this should ever be considered.

:Pretend I Put a Zygarde here: IMO, this mon is one of the hardest Pokémon to take down in the game. Glare is so obnoxious, and can make it so Zygarde can just cheese it’s way through its standard checks. Sub is such a good option cause of all the switches Zygarde forces. I’ve heard some people say that Zygarde should be suspected, but personally I think that would be a bad idea.

View attachment 364722 Too constricting IMO. Not only is the classic standard physical set great, but the QD shock Wave one too. Not much to say on this mon either.

View attachment 364723 Id like to see SS back tbh. I feel like it was a victim of the metagame at the time. Between Specterier and Magearna, the tier had to also fit in checks for this monster. Idk why they banned this before Specterier though. The current metagame has plenty of common checks to Urshifu, with two of its best checks being Tapu Fini and Buzzwole. Future sight is also falling off, so their is less of a chance for SS to blow through its checks, although it would probably pick back up if SS came back. Jury’s out on this one.

View attachment 364724 Please, never again. I’m honestly surprised how long it took for this to be banned. The fact that sp def Hydreigon was #13 in usage when this was at its peak should speak for itself.

View attachment 364725Nah. This gen gave it some really excellent tools in trick and draining kiss that pushed an already overbearing Pokémon over the top. Don’t really want to see this back.

View attachment 364726Probably the only Pokémon in this list I could see coming back to OU. This was quickbanned at the same time as Magearna which I think is unfair cause Magearna kind of had a stranglehold on the meta at the time. This mon has plenty of checks in the current meta, such as Lando, Chomp, Fini and Pex depending on the coverage, Hippo, Dragonite, etc. all of these mons are common and you’re not being forced to run an unviable mon just to check it, which is one of the main arguments I heard about Cinder when it was in the tier. I could go more in depth with this, such as why Cinder could actually be a good addition to the tier, but maybe that’s a post for another time.

TLDR; maybe Cinderace?????????????? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about anything, or give me some constructive criticism. I’m all for improving when it comes to writing posts like these. Thanks for reading!

You were doing fine until you got to urshifu. Like you said FS is just gonna rise back up. I don't understand how one can even consider something like this. "Counters" like buzzwole have dropped a lot (although its still a solid mon not saying its bad but its sitting in UU rn). Fini is a good mon until you realize it doesn't have reliable recovery and poison jab exists. This mon has easily one of the most broken moves in the game with wicked blow. Honestly something like this should never be thought of ever inside our current meta. Cinderace I do agree with this mon is manageable and I would personally love to play with it again. I would agree for a suspect but tbh if i get bullied enough I would probably vote ban for it. This is a mon who is really on the edge for me.

 

[ausma]

Please read the two quoted posts below:

Hello everyone, let me make a disclaimer regarding the concept of suspecting more existing Ubers Pokemon:

As an optimist, I tend to try and keep an open mind about the ideas that others have about the metagame and what they see as being ban-worthy, suspect-worthy, or even worth bringing into the tier from Ubers. This is why I entertained the Zamazenta suspect and this philosophy was a big reason why I ultimately joined the pro-unban side of the suspect, and it also led me to evaluate quite a few components of the metagame in greater depth.

In general, though, I would try to avoid this kind of discussion going forward as it generally does not provide anything constructive toward discussion other than creating great polarity between the poster and the overwhelming majority of people who would otherwise disagree with the suggestion. When it comes down to it, these kinds of suggestions are impossible to quantify the balance of because they do not exist in the metagame; in other words, they are baseless theorymon. The issue with theorymonning is that discussion becomes purely speculative and a lot of concrete data becomes meaningless. In turn, the metagame discussion becomes less a discussion about the metagame and more about "what-if" questions and people ganging up on the person who made the initial suggestion.

Zamazenta-C was an exception because it was met with overwhelming support to where metagame discussion was heavily trumped in favor of the suspect, and it was difficult to really temper given the hype around the idea; though, more notably, there were legitimate arguments and reasons to suspect Zamazenta-C. However, no matter how we approach the situation and whether we agree on its merits or not, it undeniably derailed and refocused metagame development/discussion toward the ramifications of it being a part of the tier as opposed to the existing metagame. It took a lot of work and coordination from the OU council and forced them to divvy their resources to make the suspect possible, and moreover, even with months' worth of support, they could only feasibly do it when the metagame was in a stable position.

I highly encourage and support the discussion of ideas and observations such as these, but I want to make clear that discussion of Ubers suspects should remain at a minimum given their effect on the thread, how it's generally impossible to truly make concrete arguments due to the lack of qualitative data, and how it's not realistic to divvy our resources toward constantly suspecting them. Thank you for your understanding!

Ubers and OU are vastly different metagames. Performance in one has no effect on performance in the other. Very very rarely will a council look into unbanning an Ubers, but if they do, then it's for the sake of improving their metagame and not because of lackluster performance in another.

I'll kindly ask everyone to avoid discussing Pokemon in the Ubers tier here, especially discussion on unbanning them. Have a good rest of the day.

We have asked numerous times to keep the discussion of suspecting Ubers Pokemon away from this thread for the reasons stated above. This has come up on several instances even when we have made it clear to avoid discussing it. Because of this, for the future, infractions will be handed out to those who instigate it. Please avoid it going forward so we do not have to take any further action.

If you have any questions about this, feel free to message me and I'll be more than happy to answer. Thank you!

 

[Walletinspector62]

Yeah my bad. I had no idea there were rules about that, I just assumed I could talk about them since I had seen others talk about them. You kind of have to dig to find those too. I’ll try to be more careful from now on.

 

[airfare]

What pokemon do you guys think is underrated that should be used a lot more than it is?

might be a bit late but still worth sharing imo..


Cresselia (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight / Thunder Wave
- Lunar Dance
- Trick

Cresselia is a fantastic mixed wall, capable of eating extremely powerful hits from premier wallbreakers like Garchomp, Swords Dance/Bulk Up Landorus-T Choice Specs Kyurem, and Tapu Lele with ease. Using a Choice Scarf, it can disrupt opposing teams' specially defensive walls while serving as a temporary revenge killer to Kartana, Garchomp, and Landorus-T and stopping sweeps with Trick from Volcarona and Tapu Fini. Most interesting, though, is the support it can provide to offensive win conditions (mostly commonly seen with Kyurem). Lunar Dance lets Kyurem come back from a risky situation at any time, and its ability to restore PP lets Kyurem Pressure stall defensive Pokemon twice (Toxapex's Haze for Dragon Dance variants is the best example), especially when supported by a Choice lock from Trick. The high defensive value coupled with the unique support to offensive threats makes Cresselia a pretty interesting, and underrated, Pokemon on fatter builds.

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Cresselia: 165-195 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Cresselia: 157-186 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 350-420 (78.8 - 94.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Cresselia: 212-252 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 230-272 (51.8 - 61.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia on a critical hit: 237-282 (53.3 - 63.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 267-315 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1382891844 olt ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1382897214 olt ladder
thanks Maki for testing my team + letting me steal these replays :joy:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-568153 wcop
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-562082 wcop
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360142875-q1s65owby7s6d5v4xqae0a4wrrr37jzpw friendly where i beat double steel

Comfey @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Triage
EVs: 232 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Synthesis
- Taunt
(idk about this spread but john w used it last august probs still works thanks bro)

Comfey is Calm Mind Tapu Fini, but better at ending games and capable of revenge killing at the expense of pretty much all of its defensive utility. Pairing it alongside Iron Defense Magnezone lets it break past most of the tougher matchups against scary specially defensive Steel-types that would otherwise wall it. Spikes support, especially from Mew to help vs Heatran and Slowking-G with Knock Off, also aids it towards this goal. After the resists have been eliminated, Comfey turns into an insane lategame cleaner, using its priority Draining Kiss and Synthesis to set up on or just take out faster threats while utilizing Taunt to take care of almost every slower Pokemon. It's been a very fun-to-use lategame win condition capable of robbing games in a Magearna-esque way. Fuck tapu lele tho

 

[MrHands]

Comfey @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Triage
EVs: 232 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Synthesis
- Taunt
(idk about this spread but john w used it last august probs still works thanks bro)

Comfey is Calm Mind Tapu Fini, but better at ending games and capable of revenge killing at the expense of pretty much all of its defensive utility. Pairing it alongside Iron Defense Magnezone lets it break past most of the tougher matchups against scary specially defensive Steel-types that would otherwise wall it. Spikes support, especially from Mew to help vs Heatran and Slowking-G with Knock Off, also aids it towards this goal. After the resists have been eliminated, Comfey turns into an insane lategame cleaner, using its priority Draining Kiss and Synthesis to set up on or just take out faster threats while utilizing Taunt to take care of almost every slower Pokemon. It's been a very fun-to-use lategame win condition capable of robbing games in a Magearna-esque way. Fuck tapu lele tho

Every once in a while someone brings up the idea of Comfey in OU. In damage calcs it seems promising but I legitimately don't think I've ever seen it actually function well in high level play. Blunder, Pokeaim, and lol even Emvee have tried it and it appears to be useless every single game except when used in a "win more" situation. I legitimately don't think I would ever want to run this over CM Fini as despite Comfey having the priority niche Fini has loads more defensive value and isn't immediately broken by Tapu Lele existing.

I'm not saying it's bad, just that maybe I don't quite get what people seem to see in it. Do you have any logs of it pulling weight in tournament or high ladder conditions where it's not a functionally usually worse Tapu Fini?

 

[FL2802]

Every once in a while someone brings up the idea of Comfey in OU. In damage calcs it seems promising but I legitimately don't think I've ever seen it actually function well in high level play. Blunder, Pokeaim, and lol even Emvee have tried it and it appears to be useless every single game except when used in a "win more" situation. I legitimately don't think I would ever want to run this over CM Fini as despite Comfey having the priority niche Fini has loads more defensive value and isn't immediately broken by Tapu Lele existing.

I'm not saying it's bad, just that maybe I don't quite get what people seem to see in it. Do you have any logs of it pulling weight in tournament or high ladder conditions where it's not a functionally usually worse Tapu Fini?

From personal experience,people find that it is “better“ as it has priority with its main attack as well as with healing moves like synthesis,but people fail to understand that that doesn’t make comfey better
Fini just has a better typing which allows it to setup easier,combined with misty terrain letting it come in on toxic/t wave
It also has scald for a secondary stab to hit steels,something comfey can’t do
so yeah overall like you said,I rlly don’t see why people find it better

 

[Sagdiyev]

What pokemon do you guys think is underrated that should be used a lot more than it is?

This thing is the hardest counter to Urshifu-R in the game. Immunity to both STABs and W-o-W (with stab scald) also makes it a decent physical check as it can force easily predictable switches.

Advert (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Scald

This set has enough speed to outrun 0 Tran, and the rest is dumped into HP and Defense.

 

[Therealkc24]

This thing is the hardest counter to Urshifu-R in the game. Immunity to both STABs and W-o-W (with stab scald) also makes it a decent physical check as it can force easily predictable switches.

Advert (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Scald

This set has enough speed to outrun 0 Tran, and the rest is dumped into HP and Defense.

Can we please stop this idea if bring Jellicent into OU, we did this when Pheromosa was around but then realized it’s just not a good pokemon. Sure it can hard check Urshifu, but Urshifu isn’t the only great threat in the mega rn. Niches are great because they make mons like Magnezone viable, however it won’t apply to Jellicent. Sure it has some bulk on the special side, but it’s not taking some of the most powerful attacks this meta has to offer. Dragapult, Weavile, zeraora, Bisharp, and Specs lele since u have to invest in def for Urshifu, are wrecking havoc on the meta rn, especially the ghost types. And we are now in a metagame where defensive mons need to have some type of damage output, unless ur an extremely bulky wall like Pex, or Ferro. They can switch in to take a hit, but can’t dish it back, so now ur stuck spam-healing hoping ur opponent attacks won’t k-o, which will ether force them to switch or u will have to switch out yourself. Basically Jellicent niche against Urshifu won’t be enough for it to be viable when there’s other mons that can fulfill the same role Better and be utilized to fit ur team the way u see fit.

 

[5camp]

Since a lot of people have been shitting on poor Swampert, I want to bring up the chonky boi and tell you about my experience with it.

I've been mucking about with an electric terrain team in OU and had Swampert in the team as it fulfilled the role of rocker, electric immunity, pivot, and general chip damage. However numerous folks said if you want a rocker, pivot, electric immunity and chip machine, why not use literally the best mon in the tier in Lando-T? So I did make the switch and suddenly found my team far worse off, especially against Heatran and opposing Lando-T. Considering these two are like #1 and #3 on usage stats, having something reliable to pivot into them and be able to beat them one on one is huge. I also started struggling more with Melmetal and Weavile (actually it doesn't help much with Weavile, but at least at full health it does better than Lando). Yeah Lando can check itself, but Swampert can do this:

16 SpA Swampert Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 280-332 (87.7 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Ice beam is kinda great on Swampert. Lando will often stay in to get rocks up if it has you intimidated so ice beam can catch it off guard. It also catches Rillaboom on the switch for a whole heap of damage, which is nice when you're like me and running e-terrain means the boomer is an annoying roadblock (can also be really ballsy and stay in to ice beam the boomer as it clicks knock off on the assumed Corv switchin). Also TankChomp, thinking its switching in to get big rocky helmet damage, gets flattened. The rocky helmet part is a big part of this, because even if your prediction goes wrong and the Lando u-turns out into Corv or whatever, at least you aren't taking helmet damage. Plus running Ice Beam and Flip Turn doesn't dig into the power of either move since Swampy runs negative speed natures anyway. This is why it's better than ice punch btw. You may have lower SpA but the increased power of the move and the fact most your switch ins have better Def than SpDf makes it do more damage on top of avoided helmet chip.

So after playing with Lando for a bit, I went right back to Swampert again and my team dramatically improved. Maybe it's niche, but in its role it does a lot of things noticeably better than Lando that made it succeed on my team.

 

[Morkal]

Can we please stop this idea if bring Jellicent into OU, we did this when Pheromosa was around but then realized it’s just not a good pokemon. Sure it can hard check Urshifu, but Urshifu isn’t the only great threat in the mega rn. Niches are great because they make mons like Magnezone viable, however it won’t apply to Jellicent. Sure it has some bulk on the special side, but it’s not taking some of the most powerful attacks this meta has to offer. Dragapult, Weavile, zeraora, Bisharp, and Specs lele since u have to invest in def for Urshifu, are wrecking havoc on the meta rn, especially the ghost types. And we are now in a metagame where defensive mons need to have some type of damage output, unless ur an extremely bulky wall like Pex, or Ferro. They can switch in to take a hit, but can’t dish it back, so now ur stuck spam-healing hoping ur opponent attacks won’t k-o, which will ether force them to switch or u will have to switch out yourself. Basically Jellicent niche against Urshifu won’t be enough for it to be viable when there’s other mons that can fulfill the same role Better and be utilized to fit ur team the way u see fit.

I really don't understand why there's such unwarranted hostility within the player base as a whole regarding experimenting with lower tier Pokemon in OU. This outdated mentality has been bothering me for a while. Jellicent definitely is not just meant for that tiny niche, and actually has fantastic tools to succeed in OU.

Jellicent doesn't only stop Urshifu-RS, Water/ Ghost is an incredible defensive typing that gives Jellicent key resistances to Water (immune if using Water Absorb), Ice, Steel, Bug, Poison, and Fire type attacks along with a crucial Fighting immunity (also a Normal immunity). It also has usable defensive stats, great abilities in Water Absorb and Cursed Body, access to multiple types of reliable recovery, and a wide array of support moves.

Toxic variants can wear down Volcarona, if Heatran doesn't have Toxic it can't touch Jellicent, and physical attackers as a whole have to be extremely wary of switching in because of either Will O Wisp or Strength Sap (yes, Jellicent has arguably one of the best moves in the game). Even Pokemon who would give Jellicent worry like Zeraora have to be careful, otherwise they could turn into deadweight with the right prediction.

Please stop this limiting mentality about lower tier Pokemon in OU. As for the user I quoted, I don't mean to put you on the spot specifically, but I feel as though your post is completely ignoring Jellicent's fantastic qualities so that you can talk down to other players willing to experiment in the tier. Obviously it's not an OU staple and has some issues thanks to bad meta match-ups but to say that it doesn't have a valid niche is objectively wrong. Jellicent has fantastic role compression and albeit while requiring careful play, it can shut down notable key team figures if you play it right and partner with some great Pokemon, it can do wonders.

 

[Abhi]

Hello there
Id like to talk about Arctozolt cuz its a cutie.


Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SpA / 188 Spe
Naive / Naughty Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Low Kick
- Substitute

80 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 196-232 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

Look at it, so adorable. Adorable and hard to handle that is since even with measly attack stats Arctozolt has proved itself to be a powerhouse in OU. Unwallable and High Base Power STAB moves are what allows it to do this, along with Substitute which ruins any Scarfers chance to try and revenge kill this cutie (unless its Scarf Dragapult but like come on this isnt early DLC2 meta anymore). Bolt Beak is the best STAB it could have asked for, being 170 Base Power when it goes first in a turn, and with Slush Rush it almost always does. Ice Dino really has limited checks too, BoltBeam coverage with High base powers is very hard to switch into, not to mention its coverage in Low Kick. Its very hard to check, and if it gets a Substitute up, you bet its gonna claim a couple kills.

This post isnt just about Arctozolt its about Hail too now, so buckle up.
Now Hail seems definitely worthy of A tier in the VR, both Pokemon I mean, its got a very solid winrate in OLT Playoffs, having won almost every match its been used in bar a few, and its pretty popular as well, being spammed on ladder ( i would know i recently breached 1800s only to have tilted back into the 1500s ) and on the Tour scene and Hail is still so relatively new to the metagame. Theres SO many possibilities and mons that could be used and abused on hail, I cant wait to see what people do with Hail in the near future.

I'd very much also like to hear what you guys think of Hail at the moment and what you guys have tried out.
See ya

​

P.S. Jellicent is an interesting mon for sure, since walling Urshifu R and being able to check Heatran pretty well is nice, but I feel its awkward to try and fit on teams, but it could definitely work on some teams that need what it has to offer.

​

 

[pulsar512b]

Hello there
Id like to talk about Arctozolt cuz its a cutie.


Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive / Naughty Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Low Kick
- Substitute

80 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 196-232 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

Look at it, so adorable. Adorable and hard to handle that is since even with measly attack stats Arctozolt has proved itself to be a powerhouse in OU. Unwallable and High Base Power STAB moves are what allows it to do this, along with Substitute which ruins any Scarfers chance to try and revenge kill this cutie (unless its Scarf Dragapult but like come on this isnt early DLC2 meta anymore). Bolt Beak is the best STAB it could have asked for, being 170 Base Power when it goes first in a turn, and with Slush Rush it almost always does. Ice Dino really has limited checks too, BoltBeam coverage with High base powers is very hard to switch into, not to mention its coverage in Low Kick. Its very hard to check, and if it gets a Substitute up, you bet its gonna claim a couple kills.

This post isnt just about Arctozolt its about Hail too now, so buckle up.
Now Hail seems definitely worthy of A tier in the VR, both Pokemon I mean, its got a very solid winrate in OLT Playoffs, having won almost every match its been used in bar a few, and its pretty popular as well, being spammed on ladder ( i would know i recently breached 1800s only to have tilted back into the 1500s ) and on the Tour scene and Hail is still so relatively new to the metagame. Theres SO many possibilities and mons that could be used and abused on hail, I cant wait to see what people do with Hail in the near future.

I'd very much also like to hear what you guys think of Hail at the moment and what you guys have tried out.
See ya

​

P.S. Jellicent is an interesting mon for sure, since walling Urshifu R and being able to check Heatran pretty well is nice, but I feel its awkward to try and fit on teams, but it could definitely work on some teams that need what it has to offer.

​

I basically just agree with this entire post, but the PS is a good summary of Jellicent's ability. Being able to simultaneously handle heatran and urshifu-rs is a hugely valuable niche imo and as such it's a nice tool to have in your back pocket if for whatever reason you end up needing that.

 

[BoomFantastic]

Hello there
Id like to talk about Arctozolt cuz its a cutie.


Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive / Naughty Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Low Kick
- Substitute

80 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 196-232 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

Look at it, so adorable. Adorable and hard to handle that is since even with measly attack stats Arctozolt has proved itself to be a powerhouse in OU. Unwallable and High Base Power STAB moves are what allows it to do this, along with Substitute which ruins any Scarfers chance to try and revenge kill this cutie (unless its Scarf Dragapult but like come on this isnt early DLC2 meta anymore). Bolt Beak is the best STAB it could have asked for, being 170 Base Power when it goes first in a turn, and with Slush Rush it almost always does. Ice Dino really has limited checks too, BoltBeam coverage with High base powers is very hard to switch into, not to mention its coverage in Low Kick. Its very hard to check, and if it gets a Substitute up, you bet its gonna claim a couple kills.

This post isnt just about Arctozolt its about Hail too now, so buckle up.
Now Hail seems definitely worthy of A tier in the VR, both Pokemon I mean, its got a very solid winrate in OLT Playoffs, having won almost every match its been used in bar a few, and its pretty popular as well, being spammed on ladder ( i would know i recently breached 1800s only to have tilted back into the 1500s ) and on the Tour scene and Hail is still so relatively new to the metagame. Theres SO many possibilities and mons that could be used and abused on hail, I cant wait to see what people do with Hail in the near future.

I'd very much also like to hear what you guys think of Hail at the moment and what you guys have tried out.
See ya

​

P.S. Jellicent is an interesting mon for sure, since walling Urshifu R and being able to check Heatran pretty well is nice, but I feel its awkward to try and fit on teams, but it could definitely work on some teams that need what it has to offer.

​

What I'm most curious about regarding Hail right now is how people plan on adapting to it. So far all I've seen are posts lauding Hail's recent success (and rightfully so), but the only forms of Hail counterplay I've seen being discussed are:

1) the Victim of the Week thread featuring Arctozolt, where 90% of the submissions are merely short-term checks, and

2) A post showing how Sandslash-Alola, of all things, can be used outside of Hail to easily sweep common Hail teams, à la BW Excadrill.

I'm not going to be that guy and start calling for a Snow Warning suspect, it's nowhere near broken, but I am curious and excited to see what forms of Hail countermeasures we'll see in the coming weeks. I'm pretty sure people won't continue to use their teambuilders without any edits if 80% of their teams are Arctozolt food.

 

[toaster04]

writing this on mobile, been vouching hail on discord and in practice a lot.

kinda short but extremely interested to see where hail will go from here, especially because of the high OLT wr and hail is easily the best weather in the tier right now for sure: some cool applications like volcanion as a breaker on the ox hail and scarf tapu lele. you sort of just position yourself for a late-game clean with arctozolt / other cleaner if weather time allows room. i hope to see more innovative approaches and new usage stats in the future

 

[Deleted User 464209]

Absolute Unit
Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Double Iron Bash
- Acid Armor
- Toxic / Protect

You can use this thick lugnut to stop arcozolt quite handily. Defensive melmetal sets are under-explored, if you ask me. I've been using this one since the cloyster days, but it's good into hail too. Most opponents will find themselves in awe at the size of this lad. Disgusting with Grassy Terrain. This 6-0s that team btw

Artozolt Damage

The set above. 252+ Atk, 80 SpA.

Zeraora underestimated the GIRTH

Random replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1399104078
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1399098142-p0eexfyqhv1jd4i18q6ojqrsfd47p33pw

Also, I don't want to divulge someone else's trade secrets, but there may be a certain volt absorb fish on possibly existent stalls that curbs hail sweepers.

====
I don't know why there is suddenly discussion on hail being "broken". I wouldn't consider freeze dry to be a core option on arctozolt, since hippo will always beat it without blizzard. Substitute, boots, and bolt beak are required. I think sun will rise as a anti hail measure if hail ever gets the representation to warrant actual building for it. and pulsar512b this physical set is far better than it appears.

 

[pulsar512b]

What I'm most curious about regarding Hail right now is how people plan on adapting to it. So far all I've seen are posts lauding Hail's recent success (and rightfully so), but the only forms of Hail counterplay I've seen being discussed are:

1) the Victim of the Week thread featuring Arctozolt, where 90% of the submissions are merely short-term checks, and

2) A post showing how Sandslash-Alola, of all things, can be used outside of Hail to easily sweep common Hail teams, à la BW Excadrill.

I'm not going to be that guy and start calling for a Snow Warning suspect, it's nowhere near broken, but I am curious and excited to see what forms of Hail countermeasures we'll see in the coming weeks. I'm pretty sure people won't continue to use their teambuilders without any edits if 80% of their teams are Arctozolt food.

First let's establish the set:

Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 4 SpD / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Freeze-Dry
- Low Kick
- Substitute

We'll also mention stomping tantrum occasionally.

Melmetal and gastrodon, in my (admittedly, limited), experience, are pretty effective at checking it, albeit both.. honestly kinda suck at it haha.
Melmetal is super easy to wear down, with even a full physdef set (which doesn't exist) taking a good chunk:

252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 129-153 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Note this is before we factor in hail, possible rocky helmet damage if they predict the (forced) bash and go corv, and whatever else. As such, while it can serve as a somewhat ok stopgap, it cannot be consistently relied on.
plus lol who runs physdef melm
252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 169-201 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
While the set posted above by Veez is more effective, it's lack of recovery and weakness to special attacks makes it somewhat dubious in my opinion.

Gastrodon works *great* if they are running blizzard, but freeze dry completely fucks it. Same deal with swampert. Veez also hinted at lanturn, which first of all, why are you running lanturn in OU, secondly freeze dry is annoying to it -

4 SpA Arctozolt Freeze-Dry vs. 36 HP / 220+ SpD Lanturn: 122-146 (30.5 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
and it can't do much in return. but again why are you running lanturn
also stomping tantrum go stonks
252 Atk Arctozolt Stomping Tantrum vs. 36 HP / 196 Def Lanturn: 160-190 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
overall this just feels like you're trying to make an argument for seismitoad being a reason to not ban dracovish, except worse in every conceivable way


Now for mons I'm not personally experienced with but on paper might do the trick:

Tyranitar can deal with non-low kick variants.... sorta well?

252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not my first choice, but ok maybe it's fine, still has the same issues as melm

252 Atk Arctozolt Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 136-160 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ferrothorn doesn't completely fall over, but in any case it somewhat struggles to fight back, and is again rather easy to chip down

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 135-159 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(You can try leech seed mind games, but a sub would cause issues probably- under aurora veil it can't break the sub!)

ferro is probably the best way to beat it tbh

still kinda shit
252 Atk Arctozolt Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

take what i said about melmetal and put it here
252 Atk Arctozolt Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

heatran is same deal
heatran also takes more but isn't kod by stomping tantrum, and zone gets kod sometimes if it has no bulk.



In summary: ferro. maybe. not really. (and can be trapped by zone, naturally). other things can i guess take a hit but struggle to swap into it. and some cant even offensively threaten it. yay. balanced. the best way to deal with it is to awkwardly swap around it for a half dozen turns until hail runs out and hope you can hold shit together for long enough

As for what to do- you don't ban snow warning imo. You ban arctozolt, as that's the broken element.

 

[Endrism]

Hail and specifically Arctozolt seems to be the target of discussion lately, and I wanted to throw my hat into the ring with a different perspective. What kind of counterplay could come up against the mighty Arctozolt? As we all know Arctozolt is unwallable with only a few checks, but whenever a threat arrives like this, we always tend to find a way to stop their rise, unless they are overbearing in the case of Dracovish requiring a Water Absorb user, or Spectrier... dear god Spectrier. I don't think Arctozolt even comes close to the ones we've banned in the SS OU Meta, so what counterplay could we see?

Choice Scarf Users

Scarf Lando looked to be a thing of the past with the way this meta shaped out, but with the rise of Arctozolt we may see that change. The biggest problem with Arctozolt is even with Slush Rush it still can only manage 458 Speed, but Scarf Lando can manage 463 being able to outspeed and KO with a STAB EQ. Kartana and Victini could also blast through Arctozolt with Sacred Sword and V-Create respectively. Scarfers could see a HUGE rise in usage as it will be the best way to dispose or at least pressure this menace.

SCARF CALCS

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 390-458 (121.4 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 276-326 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 494-584 (153.8 - 181.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Full PhysDef Walls

The trend we've had for the longest time was that a lot of walls didn't need the physical investment, and opted to go full Sp.D to tank moves from mons like Lele and Dragapult, but with Arctozolt ready to kill your entire team, changing that Ferrothorn to full physdef could save your life. Full PhysDef Ferrothorn can live two Low Kicks and has a chance to OHKO after rocks. This was the only wall off the top of my head, but more mons may be able to convert that we haven't thought of.

HAHA FERROTHORN GO BRRRR

252 Atk Life Orb Arctozolt Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 143-169 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Ferrothorn Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 212-250 (66 - 77.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

HEAT BERRIES

It has been a hot minute since we've seen damage reduction berries be useful, but they could actually be HUGE for taking on not only hail, but pokemon like Garchomp and Dragonite can use the ice reduction anyways. TankChomp can eat an Icicle Crash with a Yache Berry and OHKO back with EQ. This is a niche and creative option, but I think these berries are underrated and could be utilized to really change the game.

WHAT THE BERRY DOIN?

252 Atk Life Orb Arctozolt Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 260-307 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 296-350 (92.2 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

These are just a few ideas, and maybe there are more I'm not thinking of, but I've always loved theorycrafting counterplay stuff like this, and Hail has given me the opportunity to do so. Can't wait to see how the rise of hail impacts and changes the meta.

 

[Red Raven]

Does Arctozolt even run life orb? I thought that it uses boots over anything else. If it uses a damage boosting item over boots then I think priority from something like Scizor or even Moistshifu can pressure it with the help of rocks

For me though, I just put Hippo on my team to disrupt Ninetales' snow or just use yache berry Garchomp. I really think yache berry is underrated. It completely turns the tables against would be checks and even Ninetales, who would think it has a free veil or free kill, would wind up just getting destroyed, which is where my Hippo comes in to reset the weather

Things aren't gonna be easy for even scarfers against Arctozolt. If the thing gets up a sub, it becomes a real pain. Physically defensive steel types that aren't birds are probably the best options against Zolt or you just have to contest the weather and pressure Ninetales with stealth rock

 

[Contrary Servine]

In summary: ferro. maybe. not really. (and can be trapped by zone, naturally). other things can i guess take a hit but struggle to swap into it. and some cant even offensively threaten it. yay. balanced. the best way to deal with it is to awkwardly swap around it for a half dozen turns until hail runs out and hope you can hold shit together for long enough

As for what to do- you don't ban snow warning imo. You ban arctozolt, as that's the broken element.

I think it’s a little early to talk about banning Arctozolt. It’s only recently started gaining popularity, and you can see a bit of a trend in the past few months of SS OU. First Slowking gained usage, and people started calling for it or FuturePort to be banned, then Dragapult did the same and people started calling for it to be banned, but no-one thinks Slowking is broken rn and it’s been a while since I’ve seen anyone say Pult should be suspected. It’s important to give the meta time to settle after a new discovery like Arctozolt-as it becomes a more common threat, people will start building teams with it in mind, and I predict we’ll find it much easier to deal with in a couple of weeks time. Sure, BoltBeam STAB is really hard to wall, especially with Freeze-Dry and Low Kick, but Arctozolt’s speed is a massive drawback, as even in hail you can outspeed it with most Scarfers, and it’s very reliant on hail to break due to needing the double power on Bolt Beak. Like you said, you don’t necessarily need to hard wall it, you just need to play around it until hail wears off or you can get something in to kill it. It’s not nearly on the same level as Dracovish, which needed no support and just had to click Fishious Rend over and over. Arctozolt needs hail, it needs boots, it needs Aurora Veil in order to do its job. Remove any one of those elements and it’s easy to deal with.

 

[pulsar512b]

I think it’s a little early to talk about banning Arctozolt. It’s only recently started gaining popularity, and you can see a bit of a trend in the past few months of SS OU. First Slowking gained usage, and people started calling for it or FuturePort to be banned, then Dragapult did the same and people started calling for it to be banned, but no-one thinks Slowking is broken rn and it’s been a while since I’ve seen anyone say Pult should be suspected. It’s important to give the meta time to settle after a new discovery like Arctozolt-as it becomes a more common threat, people will start building teams with it in mind, and I predict we’ll find it much easier to deal with in a couple of weeks time. Sure, BoltBeam STAB is really hard to wall, especially with Freeze-Dry and Low Kick, but Arctozolt’s speed is a massive drawback, as even in hail you can outspeed it with most Scarfers, and it’s very reliant on hail to break due to needing the double power on Bolt Beak. Like you said, you don’t necessarily need to hard wall it, you just need to play around it until hail wears off or you can get something in to kill it. It’s not nearly on the same level as Dracovish, which needed no support and just had to click Fishious Rend over and over. Arctozolt needs hail, it needs boots, it needs Aurora Veil in order to do its job. Remove any one of those elements and it’s easy to deal with.

Yes, but that's a textbook example of complex ban imo. We can compare it to the BW1 excadrill ban- that required sand, and (correctly) the broken element itself (excadrill) was banned.

Of course, we shouldn't be like suspecting it rn, just putting it out there if you wanna talk about bans now or later it's arctozolt, nothing else.

 

[Morkal]

This may seem a little odd, but I've been using this guy in OU lately as a late-game physically solid hard-hitting cleaner and it's been working wonders.

DURANT

Durant @ Leftovers
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- First Impression
- Stomping Tantrum​

Hustle really is a fantastic ability, as it skyrockets Durant's already serviceable Attack stat of base 109 to titanic levels. Hone Claws boosts Durant's attack even further and offsets the accuracy drop of Hustle. While this is already common knowledge, we need to specifically look into what makes Durant feasible in modern OU (and why it can in some cases be better than Pokemon such as Scizor or Kartana, who occupy similar niches).

Durant Strengths:​

- Durant's base 109 speed is actually a crucial tier (shared only with Kartana), and it naturally outspeeds all non-scarfed Pokemon except Dragapult, Hawlucha, Tapu Koko, Tornadus-T, Weavile, and Zeraora.
- Durant's ability Hustle makes up for the gap between its own Attack stat and Kartana's, while Durant has a superior typing for what it needs to do (Durant resists Ice and is neutral to Fighting, while Kartana is neutral to Ice and has a Fighting-type weakness for example). Durant has a far better Steel-type STAB move and gets access to STAB Priority in First Impression, which Kartana does not.

252 Atk Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 422-500 (123.7 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Lol Grassy Glide can Glide Off somewhere else)

- Durant has access to Ground coverage which Kartana and Scizor would both absolutely kill for to deal with threats like non-scarfed Heatran, G-Slowking, Toxapex, and Zeraora.

252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 412-488 (106.7 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 390-460 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

- Durant has access to additional moves that you could use depending on your team's specific needs such as Crunch, Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Superpower, X-Scissor, Skitter Smack, and Endeavor. In addition to this, Durant gets access to some surprising support moves such as Thunder Wave.
- Durant's Physical bulk is actually on par with Scizor's (Scizor has 70 / 100 while Durant has 58 / 112, which basically means all they did was add 12 to Durant's defense and subtracted 12 from its HP) meaning that it can stomach Physical hits in a pinch and then clap back with its own fantastic speed stat.

The reason I've been using Leftovers is that I've found that in OU, the damage boost from Life Orb does not reach benchmarks that would be relevant over the additional longevity, and in the rare cases where LO would matter at +1 (G-Slowking), you really can get it worn down enough to where Regenerator wouldn't save it, unboosted still grants it an easy clean 2HKO, so it can't switch in freely. Just as a heads up, Durant EXTREMELY appreciates Cleric support, or even terrain support from something such as Tapu Fini (who is actually a great partner for Durant).

Give the ant a try! I promise you won't be disappointed.