Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

[Zowayix]

https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/gameslist/manuals/DS_Pokemon_Pearl.pdf
The original Union Room forces a level 30 limit while the Colosseum has more freedom and a bunch of extra rules you can set.
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THANK YOU, I've been looking for exactly this information for several hours. (Didn't think to check the instruction manual + that Nintendo would have backed them up...)

Does BDSP's Union Room have any such restriction? (Since the Colosseum has no release date yet.)

 

[KaenSoul]

small thing but hidden power coming back but only for unown is the best outcome IMO. Idk who thought giving every pokemon the ability to beat down checks was a good idea

Is in the game anyway, thats mean in a few months it will be allowed again in every mon that comes from previous gens.
Useless they add a clause similar do Dark Void and fail if the user isnt Unown.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Making one side of the physical/special divide objectively shittier than the other for no reason isn't a fun or interesting way to differentiate the two. You're just making certain Pokémon worse.

Physical and special have a ton of differences besides "one of them has Hidden Power and the other doesn't". To think one is objectively shittier is simply incorrect.

 

[R_N]

Is in the game anyway, thats mean in a few months it will be allowed again in every mon that comes from previous gens.
Useless they add a clause similar do Dark Void and fail if the user isnt Unown.

If they don't put in that clause then the world's most hilariosu gulf occur where you can legitimately have a bunch of pokemon running around with the move provided you transfered up except literally none of them will be usable in official formats

 

[The Mind Electric]

Physical and special have a ton of differences besides "one of them has Hidden Power and the other doesn't". To think one is objectively shittier is simply incorrect.

This is the second time I've seen you defend a difference between physical and special Pokémon by saying that it makes the game more interesting and both times it's just been physical Pokémon getting screwed out of something that would make them better, so.

 

[KaenSoul]

If they don't put in that clause then the world's most hilariosu gulf occur where you can legitimately have a bunch of pokemon running around with the move provided you transfered up except literally none of them will be usable in official formats

There will be no official format in these games anyway, is only relevant for showdown.

 

[R_N]

There will be no official format in these games anyway, is only relevant for showdown.

See I assumed you were talking about the "real" meta with SWSH and not the BDSP-specific meta.

Still not sure there will be two-way transfers, personally, but fair enough.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

This is the second time I've seen you defend a difference between physical and special Pokémon by saying that it makes the game more interesting and both times it's just been physical Pokémon getting screwed out of something that would make them better, so.

Special Pokemon have much less widespread access to boosting moves and abilities as well as a lesser variety of boosting moves abilities, and their non-Hidden-Power coverage options are usually more limited as well. Their strongest moves are also generally less spammable either due to shaky accuracy making them inconsistent, or harsh special attack drops quickly draining their power. They also have to contend with the existence of Blissey, a Pokemon who will de facto resist all of their moves no matter what the type chart says.

 

[doipy hooves]

THANK YOU, I've been looking for exactly this information for several hours. (Didn't think to check the instruction manual + that Nintendo would have backed them up...)

Does BDSP's Union Room have any such restriction? (Since the Colosseum has no release date yet.)

It seems like the limit is level 50 and unchangeable. This post is probably post-patch but I doubt it would have changed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458665287453188098

(Also the thread tweet is outdated, there's a mostly invisible 20 minute timer.)

 

[MrHands]

I mean at that point, what even IS the point of keeping it around? Too weak for competitive play, too rng-based for even the earliest stages of the most casual of playthroughs

My point was that Gamefreak has nerfed moves in the past. If they wanted Hidden Power out of competitive play they could have done it. There are a lot of moves that are useless even for casual playthroughs. Astonish and Constrict are ass even at level 5.

Dexit / Movesit was not done for balance purposes. Gamefreak simply didn't have time to finish their game.

 

[Zowayix]

It seems like the limit is level 50 and unchangeable. This post is probably post-patch but I doubt it would have changed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458665287453188098

(Also the thread tweet is outdated, there's a mostly invisible 20 minute timer.)

Interesting, I would've thought the Union Room would casually allow anything with no restrictions, while the Colosseum would have enforced rules like level scaling.

 

[R_N]

My point was that Gamefreak has nefted moves in the past. If they wanted Hidden Power out of competitive play they could have done it. There are a lot of moves that are useless even for casual playthroughs. Astonish and Constrict are ass even at level 5.

Dexit / Movesit was not done for balance purposes. Gamefreak simply didn't have time to finish their game.

While I don't think it was fully done for balance, I do think by the time it came a-knocking that they realized they had to do a movexit they took a look and decided to axe things Hidden Power & Pursuit. As, like, an active decision. Otherwise I think they probably would've been a priority to implement to begin with.

hell it might've been that specific moment that made them go "this is Unown's signature only now"

Extremely late in the series balance changes like that wouldn't be too outlandish coming from the same game that decide to completely overhaul Toxic's availability.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I doubt Hidden Power was cut for balance reasons, but rather convenience reasons. Same with Return and Frustration and their rental weirdness. Those three moves were some of the only ones that by their very nature raise the barrier of entry for competitive Pokemon. (This was also likely the reason for standardizing Hidden Power's base power in Gen 6)

 

[craymond727]

I doubt Hidden Power was cut for balance reasons, but rather convenience reasons. Same with Return and Frustration and their rental weirdness. Those three moves were some of the only ones that by their very nature raise the barrier of entry for competitive Pokemon. (This was also likely the reason for standardizing Hidden Power's base power in Gen 6)

What do you mean by "raising the barrier of entry for competitive Pokemon" - I agree that GF has made certain elements easier/more accessible, but happiness is a lot easier to raise than Lvl 100 (for hyper training)

 

[Pikachu315111]

Unown honestly need a better Signature Move then Hidden Power (and maybe just give it all the Moves that has "Power" in its name just to give it something interesting). Since I already suggested a whole batch of Rock-type Moves I won't post my ideas of what cold be down with Unown (though I'm sure I've probably posted it somewhere).

As for Hidden Power itself, after having thought of several ways to change it so it's not TOO centralizing is to do at least the following: (1.) You can change its Type from the Move Menu screen, (2.) Can also change its Category, and (3.) Hidden Power only works ONCE against the active opponent and in order to have it work on the same target again if said target has switched out & then back in to battle.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

What do you mean by "raising the barrier of entry for competitive Pokemon" - I agree that GF has made certain elements easier/more accessible, but happiness is a lot easier to raise than Lvl 100 (for hyper training)

No moves rely on hyper training, so that detail's not relevant here.

Return and Frustration both break when used in rental teams, as they use the Pokemon's friendship with the player renting the team as opposed to the person renting out the team. No Pokemon's base friendship level allows it to use full-power Return, and only a select few Pokemon (most major legendaries and Buneary) have a base friendship level that lets them use full-power Frustration. In effect, any team that uses a Pokemon with Return or Frustration can't be rented out, and as a result anyone who wants to use that team would need to obtain every part of it themselves.

 

[MrHands]

Unown honestly need a better Signature Move then Hidden Power (and maybe just give it all the Moves that has "Power" in its name just to give it something interesting)

Hidden Power, Ancient Power, Nature Power, Superpower, Secret Power, Cosmic Power, Power Trick, Power Swap, Power Gem, Earth Power, Power Whip, Power Split, Stored Power, Power-Up Punch, High Horsepower, and Power Trip.

That's a lot more than I expected. Still Unown would need something else to make it usable. Perhaps a swarm ability similar to Wishiwashi where it has a huge stat boost as long as it stays above 25% HP?

Come on Gamefreak these things are canonically linked closely to the horse-god, throw Unown a bone.

 

[craymond727]

No moves rely on hyper training, so that detail's not relevant here.

Return and Frustration both break when used in rental teams, as they use the Pokemon's friendship with the player renting the team as opposed to the person renting out the team. No Pokemon's base friendship level allows it to use full-power Return, and only a select few Pokemon (most major legendaries and Buneary) have a base friendship level that lets them use full-power Frustration. In effect, any team that uses a Pokemon with Return or Frustration can't be rented out, and as a result anyone who wants to use that team would need to obtain every part of it themselves.

Gotcha, didn't realize you were referring to rentals

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hidden Power, Ancient Power, Nature Power, Superpower, Secret Power, Cosmic Power, Power Trick, Power Swap, Power Gem, Earth Power, Power Whip, Power Split, Stored Power, Power-Up Punch, High Horsepower, and Power Trip.

That's a lot more than I expected. Still Unown would need something else to make it usable. Perhaps a swarm ability similar to Wishiwashi where it has a huge stat boost as long as it stays above 25% HP?

Come on Gamefreak these things are canonically linked closely to the horse-god, throw Unown a bone.

I found one post where I posted my ideas to improve Unown.

 

[Count Bleck]

My point was that Gamefreak has nerfed moves in the past. If they wanted Hidden Power out of competitive play they could have done it. There are a lot of moves that are useless even for casual playthroughs. Astonish and Constrict are ass even at level 5.

Dexit / Movesit was not done for balance purposes. Gamefreak simply didn't have time to finish their game.

If that were the case, then in this completely seperate game that has Hidden Power already in it, everyone should have it. Same with Everyone learning Toxic; its in the game, but not everyone can learn it like before.

This was a caculated decision to exclude it from the game, as it definitely promotes "genning" and obsessive breeding/soft resets, and the world is universally better off without its presence.

Return/Frusteration I had assumed were slashed due to Sharing Team, so I wonder if team sharing will be a thing in BDSP as well. And as for Pursuit, I recall this move being the culprit for a few bugs in the past, and it was highly theorized that Dynamax mechanics + Pursuit = weird bad times. Alternatively, it has no use in game and vitrually none in VGC, so it was probably seen as not necessary to carry over.

 

[Nokocchi]

Here are all of the moves that fully function in Sword and Shield, but not in Brialliant Diamond and Shining Pearl, that at least one Gen I-IV Pokemon could learn in some way, no matter how obscure that method is:

Big List

-Water Pledge (Blastoise, Feraligatr, Swampert, Empoleon)
-Fire Pledge (Charizard, Typhlosion, Blaziken, Infernape)
-Grass Pledge (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
-Electroweb (Butterfree, Beedrill, Raichu, Mew, Ariados, Ampharos, Beautifly, Dustox, Plusle, Minun, Wornadam, Mothim, Pachirisu, Magnezone, Electavire, Porygon-Z, Rotom)
-Heat Crash (Charizard, Snorlax, Mew, Blazkien, Torkoal, Groudon, Rhyperior, Heatran, Regigigas)
-Tail Slap (Ninetales, Mew, Linoone, Floatzel, Ambipom, Skuntank)
-V-create (Rayquaza)
-Happy Hour (Raichu, Persian, Gyarados, Delibird, Jirachi)
-Celebrate (Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Raichu, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Espeon, Umbreon, Blissey, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Leafeon, Glaceon, Shaymin)
-Hold Hands (Charizard, Raichu)
-Hold Back (Snorlax, Ampharos, Celebi, Metagross)
-First Impression (Farfetch'd, Flygon)
-Darkest Lariat (Poliwrath, Machamp, Snorlax, Mew, Swampert, Electivire, Dusknoir, Regigigas)
-Sparkling Aria (Lapras)
-Solar Blade (Rapidash, Farfetch'd, Mew, Sceptile, Shiftry, Cherrim, Tangrowth, Leafeon, Gallade)
-Pollen Puff (Butterfree, Vileplume, Mew, Celebi, Cherrim)
-Psychic Terrain (Alakazam, Slowbro, Hypno, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Mewtwo, Mew, Slowking, Girafarig, Celebi, Gardevoir, Lunatone, Solrock, Claydol, Bronzong)
-Power Trip (Primeape, Empoleon)
-Speed Swap (Raichu, Alakazam, Mewtwo, Mew, Bronzong, Porygon-Z)
-Brutal Swing (Charizard, Beedrill, Arbok, Raichu, Tentacruel, Farfetch'd, Kingler, Marowak, Pinsir, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Dragonite, Mewtwo, Mew, Furret, Ampharos, Azumarill, Steelix, Scizor, Heracross, Delibird, Donphan, Hitmontop, Tyranitar, Sceptile, Shiftry, Mawile, Aggron, Flygon, Seviper, Armaldo, Milotic, Tropius, Absol, Salamence, Groudon, Deoxys, Drifblim, Lopunny, Garchomp, Drapion, Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Gliscor, Giratina)
-Psychic Fangs (Arcanine, Aerodactyl, Mew, Espeon, Girafarig, Steelix, Mawile, Manetric, Sharpedo, Luxray)
-Breaking Swipe (Charizard, Dragonite, Mew, Steelix, Kingdra, Tyranitar, Sceptile, Flygon, Altaria, Milotic, Salamence, Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Rhyperior, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina)
-Steel Beam (Steelix, Scizor, Skarmory, Mawile, Aggron, Metagross, Registeel, Jirachi, Bronzong, Lucario, Magnezone, Dialga, Heatran)
-Expanding Force (Wigglytuff, Alakazam, Slowbro, Exeggutor, Starmie, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Mewtwo, Mew, Xatu, Espeon, Slowking, Celebi, Gardevoir, Claydol, Metagross, Jirachi, Bronzong, Gallade, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Cresselia)
-Steel Roller (Sandslash, Wigglytuff, Cloyster, Snorlax, Mew, Azumarill, Steelix, Qwilfish, Shuckle, Miltank, Aggron, Wailord, Glalie, Walrein, Metagross, Registeel, Bronzong, Magnezone, Lickilicky, Heatran)
-Scale Shot (Charizard, Seaking, Gyarados, Dragonite, Mew, Dunsparce, Qwilfish, Kingdra, Lugia, Sceptile, Sharpedo, Flygon, Milotic, Relicanth, Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Garchomp. Dialga, Palkia)
-Meteor Beam (Clefable, Starmie, Omastar, Kabutops, Aerodactyl, Mew, Sudowoodo, Steelix, Shuckle, Corsola, Aggron, Lunatone, Solrock, Cradily, Armaldo, Relicanth, Metagross, Regirock, Registeel, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Bronzong, Rhyperior)
-Misty Explosion (Clefable, Wigglytuff, Mew, Azumarill, Gardevoir)
-Grassy Glide (Venusaur, Vileplume, Exeggutor, Mew, Bellossom, Celebi, Sceptile, Ludicolo, Shiftry, Roserade, Cherrim, Abomasnow, Tangrowth, Leafeon)
-Rising Voltage (Raichu, Jolteon, Zapdos, Mew, Lanturn, Raikou, Manetric, Luxray, Magnezone, Electivire, Rotom)
-Terrain Pulse (Venusaur, Blastoise, Exeggutor, Kangaskhan, Snorlax, Mew, Dunsparce, Exploud, Lucario, Lickilicky, Regigigas)
-Skitter Smack (Persian, Gengar, Mew, Dunsparce, Shuckle, Octillery, Ninjask, Shedinja, Milotic, Gastrodon, Drapion, Dusknoir)
-Burning Jealousy (Ninetales, Flareon, Moltres, Mew, Torkoal, Skuntank, Spiritomb, Magmortar, Heatran)
-Lash Out(Persian, Tauros, Gyarados, Mew, Umbreon, Tyranitar, Shiftry, Sableye, Crawdaunt, Skuntank, Drapion, Toxicroak, Weavile)
-Poltergeist(Gengar, Mew, Shedinja, Sableye,Spiritomb, Dusknoir, Froslass, Rotom, Giratina)
-Corrosive Gas(Vileplume, Tentacruel, Gengar, Weezing, Mew, Skuntank, Toxicroak)
-Coaching (Poliwrath, Machamp, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Mew, Heracross, Hitmontop, Blaziken, Lucario, Toxicroak, Gallade)
-Flip Turn (Blastoise, Golduck, Seaking, Starmie, Vaporeon, Kabutops, Mew, Kingdra, Swampert, Sharpedo, Milotic)
-Triple Axel (Jynx, Articuno, Mew, Delibird, Hitmontop, Gardevoir, Milotic, Lopunny, Weavile, Glaceon, Gallade, Froslass)
-Dual Wingbeat (Charizard, Butterfree, Clefable, Farfetch'd, Aerodactyl, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite, Mew, Noctowl, Crobat, Xatu, Dunsparce, Scizor, Delibird, Mantine, Skarmory, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, Pelipper, Ninjask, Flygon, Altaria, Salamence, Latias, Latios, Vespiquen, Togekiss, Palkia, Giratina)
-Scorching Sands (Charizard, Sandslash, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Ninetales, Dugtrio, Arcanine, Rapidash, Marowak, Flareon, Moltres, Mew, Steelix, Entei, Ho-oh, Torkoal, Flygon, Claydol, Groudon, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Rhyperior, Magmortar, Heatran)

As you can see, some Pokemon lost a lot of nice coverage even if they will eventually allow two-way transfers with home, unless they patch the moves back in.

 

[doipy hooves]

The English version of that 5 minute Japanese overview trailer is out.
There's nothing really new but if you haven't been keeping up with the leaks/datamines then it's noticeable that HP drain is relatively slower in 1.1.0.

 

[Red Raven]

"You win once your opponent's hp drops to zero"

Oh gee, really? I didn't know that like at all. I thought I had to press the run button to win

 

[Siggu]

"You win once your opponent's hp drops to zero"

Oh gee, really? I didn't know that like at all. I thought I had to press the run button to win

Thanks for reminding me of the "To defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies" meme:

 

[Pikachu315111]

Thanks for reminding me of the "To defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies" meme:

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Jeez, it would be less insulting if they put in "PROTIP: The lower a Wild Pokemon's HP, the easier it is to catch! If you knock it out, the battle ends and it runs away, losing your chance and you'll have to find another Wild Pokemon to try again". At the very least that would be helpful information for a new player, cause I think "knocking out defeats the opponent" is something even a preschooler can put together.