Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

Moyashi said:
Sorry what is your issue here? Arceus being essentially a bonus reward for completing those requirements is pretty nice. Calling it a paywall feels odd when Arceus in BDSP is bonus content and not required for anything. It's just a shiny trophy.

(Besides it isn't like you're paying for arceus only. You get a full length game with it. Which further makes it more of a bonus than anything else. Much better than having to go to some super specific irl event or miss it)
Click to expand...

My issue is in the past you didn't have to shell out 60 dollars for an entirely different game to have access to events. They were released via mystery gift or at worst through physical locations like Gamestop or Toys R Us.

BDSP isn't even a good game. The least they could do is just give you the Arceus ticket like most other mystery gifts did. Pokemon games used to be pretty self contained but now we have DLC, paid subscriptions, paid online, and now even events are hidden behind another pay wall.
 
MrHands said:
My issue is in the past you didn't have to shell out 60 dollars for an entirely different game to have access to events. They were released via mystery gift or at worst through physical locations like Gamestop or Toys R Us.

BDSP isn't even a good game. The least they could do is just give you the Arceus ticket like most other mystery gifts did. Pokemon games used to be pretty self contained but now we have DLC, paid subscriptions, paid online, and now even events are hidden behind another pay wall.
Click to expand...

I mean Jirachi was very similar in needing colosseum's bonus disc. Which was another game.

"BDSP isn't even a good game" this is subjective as heck and not really relevant even if it was true. It's also not like people didn't need to potentially have two versions of a game back in the day to complete the pokedex due to version exclusive encounters. So how is this different?
 
Moyashi said:
So how is this different?
Click to expand...
There's two ways in which it's different.

First, while both the save file bonuses and the version exclusives can be obtained either by buying multiple games or enlisting the help of friends, they differ in which way you're "intended" to get them. Version exclusives exist to encourage trading. You're not supposed to buy two games. You're supposed to seek out people who bought the other version and trade with them. Save file bonuses exist to reward you for having already bought a previous game, as well as encourage you to buy a newer game if the bonus is patched into an older game.

Second, version exclusives are framed as mandatory for completing the game. You can't get the certificate for finishing the Pokedex without trading with another version of the game. Meanwhile, save file bonuses are, well, bonuses. They're not framed as mandatory. The holes they leave in the national dex are mildly annoying, but the game isn't going to tell you that you need to go buy another game if you want to be a Pokemon Master™.
 
The update is live

The Azure Flute is literally just in an item ball in your house. It's really funny how Masuda said they didn't go through with the event because it wasn't very obvious what to do with it and then it's just there with no context. I feel like the real reason this requires beating Legends Arceus to get is just because it's the only way to get context of where to use the flute without looking it up
 
R_N said:
The update is live

The Azure Flute is literally just in an item ball in your house. It's really funny how Masuda said they didn't go through with the event because it wasn't very obvious what to do with it and then it's just there with no context. I feel like the real reason this requires beating Legends Arceus to get is just because it's the only way to get context of where to use the flute without looking it up
Click to expand...
Been thinking along those lines myself- like, Masuda didn't want it distributed because he didn't want players to get confused, so now it's only available to players who have already proven beyond all reasonable doubt that this would be a comparative walk in the park for them, that the context isn't lost on them.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Walk me through the thought process of someone who buys Legends Arceus specifically to get the Azure Flute in BDSP, because I'm not convinced such a person exists.
Click to expand...
From memory Siggu really hates the open-world Pokemon game concept and they're upset that the series looks to be trending more in that direction with SV, so I think they're in what I thought was quite a small group of people who bought BDSP with no desire to buy PLA
 
Cobalt Empoleon said:
From memory Siggu really hates the open-world Pokemon game concept and they're upset that the series looks to be trending more in that direction with SV, so I think they're in what I thought was quite a small group of people who bought BDSP with no desire to buy PLA
Click to expand...
That doesn't affect my question. I don't understand why anyone would consider a digital llama so desirable as to even consider it being an entire standalone product being sold for $60.
 
Cobalt Empoleon said:
so I think they're in what I thought was quite a small group of people who bought BDSP with no desire to buy PLA
Click to expand...

My understanding is that such group is very much a small group and is, for the most part, a very small minority. I don't have hard data on this, of course, but I am fairly confident that 99% of the people who bought BDSP, if they did at all, probably bought PLA as well. Both games also happened to appeal to Sinnoh nostalgics (myself included in that regard) and I am fairly positive anyone who falls into the latter group bought both anyway, assuming they bought BDSP in the first place, that is. And I'm also confident the new kids who started Pokémon with Sword and Shield also bought both BDSP and PLA as well, or at least had their parents buy them both. There's a reason both games were marketed together from the start, after all.

If anything, it is much more likely based on my experience and what I've seen from people is that there are many more people out there who bought PLA but not BDSP. PLA on its own had a larger amount of appeal as a game to a bigger audience than BDSP because it's very different from past mainline Pokémon games in many ways and that in itself instantly made it significantly more appealing to both newcomers to Sinnoh and older players alike as a new and fresh experience. There are many people I've seen who didn't even consider buying BDSP because it was so faithful to the originals that there is significantly less incentive to buy it if you already played the original DPP unless you're looking for a simple nostalgia trip. Which is of course a totally understandable sentiment. The reverse case (people who bought BDSP but not PLA) is a much smaller minority, while the case of people who bought PLA but not BDSP is much larger because BDSP's target audience is smaller and more casual compared to PLA's target audience, making it a more likely scenario to know a person who only bought PLA and didn't touch BDSP at all.
 
MrHands said:
Lmao they hid Arceus behind a whole ass completed video game pay wall. I used to think it was bullshit when I had to go to Toys R Us to get Arceus, but somehow this is even worse.

Wonder if this means Home support is coming soon. /s
Click to expand...
Siggu said:
A completed game that already gives you a chance to get Arceus without any external help.

So the "reward" here is... a chance of getting one that is shiny. That's all.
Click to expand...
...you guys are aware that Arceus is tradable...right? You know a paywall typically means there arent other reasonable alternatives, right? You guys know that, in order for this to be a paywall, the entire game of PLA would need to have no value, but also you would need to have such a high standard and a reason to even use arceus in bdsp that you just HAVE to get it yourself....

Im sorry my brain short circuited halfway through because these are some HUGE brain gymnastics.
 
Count Bleck said:
You guys know that, in order for this to be a paywall, the entire game of PLA would need to have no value
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Ahem... putting that behind, what's the deal with the points in GWS? I've seen that you get objects (I got 3 Rare Candies after marking five), but apart from that I don't get their purpose. Mostly because it doesn't remember your last selection.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
That doesn't affect my question. I don't understand why anyone would consider a digital llama so desirable as to even consider it being an entire standalone product being sold for $60.
Click to expand...
I obviously don't agree with the "ugh they're selling Arceus for $60" take and I really don't understand the small but vocal minority who hates the very idea of open-world Pokemon, but I think my reply did answer the question, more or less?

If you bought BDSP (with no intention of getting PLA) and hoped that they'd finally give players legitimate access to the Hall of Origin through a BDSP event, you'd obviously feel aggrieved if said event were locked behind full story completion of a game you will never buy and in fact actively despise lol. Just because virtually no one will buy PLA just to get Arceus doesn't change the fact that for someone who owns BDSP it's either buy PLA and get two Arceus or don't buy PLA and get zero Arceus.

Pokemon fans have terrible and bizarre opinions of every possible variation and combination. It's not a reasonable course of action, but I'm 100% sure that someone out there loves Arceus so much (while hating PLA) that they will buy the game just to get it, even though you can just trade for one.
 
MrHands said:
Lmao they hid Arceus behind a whole ass completed video game pay wall. I used to think it was bullshit when I had to go to Toys R Us to get Arceus, but somehow this is even worse.

Wonder if this means Home support is coming soon. /s
Click to expand...
I much prefer Arceus's setup compared to Darkrai's or Shaymin's, because the event will be available indefinitely while Darkrai and Shaymin will soon be gone forever. A secondhand paywall is way, way better than a timewall. You can buy a used copy of Legends and maybe even sell it back without giving a cent to TPC.
 
Last edited:
DrPumpkinz said:
That doesn't affect my question. I don't understand why anyone would consider a digital llama so desirable as to even consider it being an entire standalone product being sold for $60.
Click to expand...
Clearly, you have never met a gotcha game player.

That being said, yeah, save final bonus' are pretty scummy.

Now that being said, HOLY FUCK am I giggy that this event is final official available.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Oh yeah, I forgot those weirdos exist. Don't they somehow get enjoyment out of wasting money? I feel like they'd be drooling at the chance to pay sixty smackers for a goat stuck in a fence.
Click to expand...

I mean people have different things they enjoy and so long as they are being responsible about it, it's not really a big deal how they spend their money.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Oh yeah, I forgot those weirdos exist. Don't they somehow get enjoyment out of wasting money? I feel like they'd be drooling at the chance to pay sixty smackers for a goat stuck in a fence.
Click to expand...
I sincerely hope you're memeing, because in fact gachas (and lootboxes) work because they abuse a grave flaw in human psyche, and basically "live" off creating addiction.

The system of Whaling itself is made to abuse psychically vulnerable people who will not manage to control their spending in order to keep obtaining more and more of that satisfactory moment of "pulling the high rarity X".

If you think people who spam gachas do it cause they love "wasting money" you're gravely mistaken. In fact, they're literally on drugs and comparable to drug addicts.
 
pharaohcalvin said:
Goat not sexy enough for a gotcha game :P
Click to expand...
If you want a fan service goat, you’re one nintendo game over from what you’re after. (oh hey local former smogon contributor man AccidentalGreed even wrote the analysis on this; small world)

Also Mythics have mostly been a draw with something financial attached to them for a very long time. Jirachi was a preorder disc, Victini and Gensect were early adopter bonuses, hell, Manaphy had you buy another game for a one use transfer to DP. It's maybe a little grimey, but I feel it's fairly well compensated by the fact they're never required for Pokedex completion (aside from HOME maybe? I don't remember) and that most all official formats ban the Pokemon outright (and fan made formats can require FAR more obscure and unavailable events a la Wish Chansey to play on cart). If I'm totally honest, if they must happen for sales and renewed interest, I would prefer these sort of permanent static save data events than something like a limited time event distribution. Borrowing is also a very sound option if you have friends or show up to your local Pokemon league (post covid). I never bought LGPE but I have the eevee and mew from a save file I played for on a borrowed cartridge.

And hey! There's still all the old event Pokemon anyway from things like the 2016 distrobutions. You'll be able to play around with your old friends in BDSP once they add Pokemon Bank support in 2024.
 
My opinions on legendaries are a bit like a pyramid of needs but instead of needs its how they're treated, which goes like
Uncatchable and untransferable, part of plots and side stories > catchable in every game without needing transfer > this > time limited events

So for me there's an improvement, even if small (though my top want is completely out of question unless they do a series reboot which ???? Why would they do that lol so really it's better than I made it look)
 
Lemingue said:
My opinions on legendaries are a bit like a pyramid of needs but instead of needs its how they're treated, which goes like
Uncatchable and untransferable, part of plots and side stories > catchable in every game without needing transfer > this > time limited events

So for me there's an improvement, even if small (though my top want is completely out of question unless they do a series reboot which ???? Why would they do that lol so really it's better than I made it look)
Click to expand...
Why the heck would you want legendaries to be uncatchable? That's literally antithetical to the point of the series.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top