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Unpopular opinions

The issue I think with designing hard Boss Battles in Pokemon is that the NPC's play by the exact same battle system you do, which means the player is always at an innate advantage of being able to think on their feet or change strategies. In a typical RPG, the battle system is kind of Asymmetrical when you look over it: Bosses have several magnitudes more health than the player, they usually take larger hits (5k on a boss vs 1k on the player is a fairly standard ratio), players have free access to healing because the bosses will beat them otherwise if the fight is a straight slugfest, buffs and debuffs may be more effective on one than the other, etc.

The Totem Pokemon or stuff like Necrozma for the mainline achieve this a bit better, since they fight you 6 v 1 (plus support adds), but have much higher stats/buffs/strong-for-that-point Movepool to make them much stronger than the average team could 1v1, and then spin-offs like Mystery Dungeon go much closer to traditional RPG structure thanks to the positioning mechanics, items, and revamped abilities making room for a lot more mechanics to mess with. Heck even the Orre games can achieve this thanks to limited easy-grinding, the more rigid selection, and the Double Battle Structure having a lot more factors on the field compared to the main game's single battles.

The greatest obstacle to hard bosses in Pokemon is the rigid focus on essentially keeping the battles to the simple structure of NPC's being "players that don't think or change teams"
 
pika pal said:
The Totem Pokemon or stuff like Necrozma for the mainline achieve this a bit better, since they fight you 6 v 1 (plus support adds), but have much higher stats/buffs/strong-for-that-point Movepool to make them much stronger than the average team could 1v1, and then spin-offs like Mystery Dungeon go much closer to traditional RPG structure thanks to the positioning mechanics, items, and revamped abilities making room for a lot more mechanics to mess with. Heck even the Orre games can achieve this thanks to limited easy-grinding, the more rigid selection, and the Double Battle Structure having a lot more factors on the field compared to the main game's single battles.
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fun fact... once more, they "almost" did this in SwSh: Eternamax fight is basically you fighting at huge disadvantage, dynamaxed insane BST enemy while you're stuck with your regular pokes that get oneshot by almost every attack he has...
.....
...except sadly it's a mainly scripted fight where the 2 legendaries end up doing 90% of the work anyway.

A huge shame cause imo the Eternamax battle is one of if not the better executed climax battle in the franchise, only ruined by the fact that it's basically unlosable due to being innately a 14v1 battle.
 
pika pal said:
The greatest obstacle to hard bosses in Pokemon is the rigid focus on essentially keeping the battles to the simple structure of NPC's being "players that don't think or change teams"
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Which is basically the reason I'd rather have boss battles be, not harder, but informative. Rather than "pick some Pokémon that fit the trainer's theme", they should have teams that the player could look at them and say "hey, I could try using that myself".
 
Worldie said:
A huge shame cause imo the Eternamax battle is one of if not the better executed climax battle in the franchise, only ruined by the fact that it's basically unlosable due to being innately a 14v1 battle.
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Pokemon edging closer to figuring out MMO raid parties, except for the part where you wipe 20 times if you don't know what the fight does
 
stuart littled. said:
there need to be a shoppe in city where you pay coins to make Pokkemon into shinny.
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Why? Doing that would destroy the excitement of finding a shiny, and in return you get... what? This isn't a move reminder or a hyper trainer; shininess is mechanically completely useless. Letting you just pay to make a Pokemon shiny turns it from being a fun surprise to just a simple color pallet. You might as well just raise the shiny rate to 50%, since there wouldn't be anything inherently special about being shiny anymore.
 
Maybe as an item that only works once per save file or is exceedingly difficult to obtain (e.g. costing around a thousand Battle Points or 20 Gold Bottle Caps). Definitely not if it would be handed out the same way Max Raid battles hand out TRs.

Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of recent videos of people talking about things they want in Scarlet/Violet, and two common things I see are a regional variant of Tauros and a new Eeveelution. As for me? To hell with that, I want the opposite: a new bull mon and regional Eeveelutions.

Why? Well, nothing against Tauros per se, but it has been around for awhile now, had a pretty significant role in a previous generation, and I feel like it'd just be more interesting to see a completely new bull instead (such as, say, a mascot Legendary). As for the Eeveelutions? One can only keep milking their existences for so long before they start to get stale, and I feel that's where the current ensemble is right now. All of the Eeveelutions at this point are just generic monotype mons with next to nothing substantial to help them stand out from others of their respective types. Not to mention Arceus and Silvally do the whole different types gimmick better. All I can see happening with a new Eeveelution is a brief spike in popularity for about six months tops before everyone realizes that it's ultimately just another of that same description. On the other hand, if gen 9 does the same for the current Eeveelutions that the Crown Tundra did for the Legendary Birds (e.g. giving each of them new/dual typings, a signature attack with some awesome battle effects, new base stats and Abilities, and a fresh new theme to their designs)? That would be infinitely more awesome IMO. Imagine something like a Grass/Ghost Leafeon based on fall colors and Halloween, a Fire/Fairy Espeon based on a sun deity, or an Ice/Poison Umbreon based on the Northern Lights. Personally, I'd take those over a new monotype Eeveelution any day of the week. Why add more generic Eeveelutions when you could instead rejuvenate the ones that already exist?

I'm not holding my breath expecting the latter to happen, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that I should want something like a Drageon or Ghosteon instead.
 
PokePoindexter said:
...you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that I should want something like a Drageon or Ghosteon instead.
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Here's a reason I'd like a hypothetical Dragon Eeveelution to be the very final one: it would complete the set. All the Eeveelutions are of types that were formerly Special*, with Dragon as the only remaining exception. I'm not someone who thinks that there should be an Eeveelution for all 18 types but Dragon does strike me as a notable absence, moreso than a Poison or Ghost Eeveelution does.

Moreover, while all of them have the same stat spread rearranged (130/110/95/65/65/60), none of them has Special Defence as their lowest stat, which I've always felt was odd. I would envisage a Dragon Eeveelution having a spread of 65/130/65/110/60/95 (HP/Attack/Defence/Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Speed), which works conceptually as a counterpart to Sylveon and plays to the traditional strengths of the Dragon-type much as the other Eeveelutions tend to.



*Yes I know Fairy wasn't introduced until Gen VI, but I think we can all agree that if it had been around earlier than Gen IV, it would have in all likelihood have been a Special type rather than Physical.
 
PokePoindexter said:
Maybe as an item that only works once per save file or is exceedingly difficult to obtain (e.g. costing around a thousand Battle Points or 20 Gold Bottle Caps). Definitely not if it would be handed out the same way Max Raid battles hand out TRs.

Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of recent videos of people talking about things they want in Scarlet/Violet, and two common things I see are a regional variant of Tauros and a new Eeveelution. As for me? To hell with that, I want the opposite: a new bull mon and regional Eeveelutions.

Why? Well, nothing against Tauros per se, but it has been around for awhile now, had a pretty significant role in a previous generation, and I feel like it'd just be more interesting to see a completely new bull instead (such as, say, a mascot Legendary). As for the Eeveelutions? One can only keep milking their existences for so long before they start to get stale, and I feel that's where the current ensemble is right now. All of the Eeveelutions at this point are just generic monotype mons with next to nothing substantial to help them stand out from others of their respective types. Not to mention Arceus and Silvally do the whole different types gimmick better. All I can see happening with a new Eeveelution is a brief spike in popularity for about six months tops before everyone realizes that it's ultimately just another of that same description. On the other hand, if gen 9 does the same for the current Eeveelutions that the Crown Tundra did for the Legendary Birds (e.g. giving each of them new/dual typings, a signature attack with some awesome battle effects, new base stats and Abilities, and a fresh new theme to their designs)? That would be infinitely more awesome IMO. Imagine something like a Grass/Ghost Leafeon based on fall colors and Halloween, a Fire/Fairy Espeon based on a sun deity, or an Ice/Poison Umbreon based on the Northern Lights. Personally, I'd take those over a new monotype Eeveelution any day of the week. Why add more generic Eeveelutions when you could instead rejuvenate the ones that already exist?

I'm not holding my breath expecting the latter to happen, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that I should want something like a Drageon or Ghosteon instead.
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I'd be cool with monotype regional eeveelutions that recontextualize traits of the original forms into unused types (ex: a Ghost-type Vaporeon that melts into shadows) but I think making them all dual-type would ruin the gimmick (retroactively making the original eight eeveelutions worse) and assigning those dual types without any consideration for the original eeveelutions (Ice/Poison Umbreon overlaps with Glaceon, Fire/Fairy Espeon overlaps with Flareon and Sylveon, while Grass/Ghost Leafeon stays with its base form's type; there's no consistency at all) would be extremely sloppy and ugly.

They already ruined the Johto starters by giving Typhlosion a dual type that doesn't at all follow from its prevos. I'd rather they not also ruin the family whose entire shtick is their typing
 
DrPumpkinz said:
They already ruined the Johto starters by giving Typhlosion a dual type that doesn't at all follow from its prevos. I'd rather they not also ruin the family whose entire shtick is their typing
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Except neither Feraligatr or Meganium have a regional form yet, so the latter two are very likely to gain a dual type once their get their own regional form. There’s the fact that Hisuian Typhlosion is meant to be counterpart of Hisuian Samurott and Hisuain Decidueye.

I agree with the rest though, I rather give a monotype twist to Eeveelutions than forcing dual typing into them.
 
Samtendo09 said:
Except neither Feraligatr or Meganium have a regional form yet, so the latter two are very likely to gain a dual type once their get their own regional form. There’s the fact that Hisuian Typhlosion is meant to be counterpart of Hisuian Samurott and Hisuain Decidueye.
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In addition, most starter trios aren't consistent with when and if they gain a secondary type anyway (e.g. in gen 1 Bulbasaur being double typed all the way, Squirtle fully mono typed and Charmander gaining a secondary type upon reaching stage 3). Only gen 2, 6 and 8 are consistent which is a minority.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
(Ice/Poison Umbreon overlaps with Glaceon, Fire/Fairy Espeon overlaps with Flareon and Sylveon, while Grass/Ghost Leafeon stays with its base form's type; there's no consistency at all)
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Obviously you'd give Flareon, Sylveon, and Glaceon (as well as Vaporeon and Jolteon) new types as well; the idea would be that each variant would have two types that none of the other variants have.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
They already ruined the Johto starters by giving Typhlosion a dual type that doesn't at all follow from its prevos. I'd rather they not also ruin the family whose entire shtick is their typing
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Samtendo09 said:
Except neither Feraligatr or Meganium have a regional form yet, so the latter two are very likely to gain a dual type once their get their own regional form. There’s the fact that Hisuian Typhlosion is meant to be counterpart of Hisuian Samurott and Hisuain Decidueye.

I agree with the rest though, I rather give a monotype twist to Eeveelutions than forcing dual typing into them.
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I think the thing here with regional form starters is that regional forms are, functionally speaking, in their own way practically new and different Pokemon in their own right.

Even though Typhlosion is the only one of the Johto starter trio who has a regional form, the regional form in question is practically an entirely separate entity from Johtonian Typhlosion. Hisuian Typhlosion is not part of a trio with the other two Johto starters. Johtonian Typhlosion and only the original Johtonian Typhlosion is a Fire starter who is in a trio with Meganium and Feraligatr, and functionally all three are congruent with each other than the fact that they are all single typed, the fact of the matter is that Johtonian Typhlosion will always exist and be in this trio, so nothing about this trio has changed from the addition of regional forms.

Hisuian Typhlosion is not the same as Johtonian Typhlosion, and is not in any way designed to be related to Meganium or Feraligatr. Rather, it is part of a starter trio with Hisuian Decidueye and Hisuian Samurott, as Samtendo already pointed out. To put it in another way, in this context, H-Typhlosion is a Hisui starter, not a Johto starter, and H-Decidueye, H-Typhlosion, and H-Samurott effectively form their own proper trio of starters with each other, unrelated to their original forms. The same applies to the other two with respect to their original forms' trio. Unovan Samurott is still in a trio with Serperior and Emboar to form the Unova trio of starters. Hisuian Samurott is a Hisui starter, and is in a trio with H-Decidueye and H-Typhlosion. Likewise, Alolan Decidueye is still an Alola starter who is in a starter trio with Incineroar and Primarina, but H-Decidueye is a Hisuian starter and thus is in a trio with H-Typhlosion and H-Samurott.

Putting it in another way, the regional forms of the starters we got from Legends: Arceus are effectively speaking, their own separate proper trio of starters, entirely separated from their original forms. H-Decidueye, H-Typhlosion, and H-Samurott form a proper trio of starters with each other, and their dual typings and whatnot are designed with respect to each other specifically, and as a trio they form a dual-typed threesome of starters and are formally the starter trio of the Hisui region. Not Johto, Unova, or Alola. They are Hisui starters.

PokePoindexter said:
Obviously you'd give Flareon, Sylveon, and Glaceon (as well as Vaporeon and Jolteon) new types as well; the idea would be that each variant would have two types that none of the other variants have.
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Also this. If you were to give every single Eeveelution a regional forms, they would be typed differently with respect to each other, independent of the original forms' typings. The hypothetical regional form Eeveelution groups would be their own distinct group with each other, separate from the original Eeveelutions who are in their own distinct group themselves.
 
We can also see this with other regional-form pairings, especially version exclusive ones. Alolan Sandslash/Ninetales are a new pairing, branching off their old pairs of Arbok/Arcanine. Galarian Farfetch'd/Corsola weren't connected before, but are now previously single-stage Pokemon that gained a new evolution. The only haphazard pairing in my opinion are Galarian Rapidash/Darmanitan, due to not really having any notable parallels besides branching from being a Fire-type and the absolute power difference between them.
 
PokePoindexter said:
Obviously you'd give Flareon, Sylveon, and Glaceon (as well as Vaporeon and Jolteon) new types as well; the idea would be that each variant would have two types that none of the other variants have.
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I meant in relation to their base forms. Fire/Fairy Regional Espeon overlaps with both Regular Flareon and Regular Sylveon, while Grass/Ghost Regional Leafeon maintains the Grass typing of Regular Leafeon. If they were to make dual type regional eeveelutions, I would hope they actually take into account how their types overlap with the regular forms and make sure they all overlap in the same way.

ScraftyIsTheBest said:
I think the thing here with regional form starters is that regional forms are, functionally speaking, in their own way practically new and different Pokemon in their own right.

Even though Typhlosion is the only one of the Johto starter trio who has a regional form, the regional form in question is practically an entirely separate entity from Johtonian Typhlosion. Hisuian Typhlosion is not part of a trio with the other two Johto starters. Johtonian Typhlosion and only the original Johtonian Typhlosion is a Fire starter who is in a trio with Meganium and Feraligatr, and functionally all three are congruent with each other than the fact that they are all single typed, the fact of the matter is that Johtonian Typhlosion will always exist and be in this trio, so nothing about this trio has changed from the addition of regional forms.

Hisuian Typhlosion is not the same as Johtonian Typhlosion, and is not in any way designed to be related to Meganium or Feraligatr. Rather, it is part of a starter trio with Hisuian Decidueye and Hisuian Samurott, as Samtendo already pointed out. To put it in another way, in this context, H-Typhlosion is a Hisui starter, not a Johto starter, and H-Decidueye, H-Typhlosion, and H-Samurott effectively form their own proper trio of starters with each other, unrelated to their original forms. The same applies to the other two with respect to their original forms' trio. Unovan Samurott is still in a trio with Serperior and Emboar to form the Unova trio of starters. Hisuian Samurott is a Hisui starter, and is in a trio with H-Decidueye and H-Typhlosion. Likewise, Alolan Decidueye is still an Alola starter who is in a starter trio with Incineroar and Primarina, but H-Decidueye is a Hisuian starter and thus is in a trio with H-Typhlosion and H-Samurott.

Putting it in another way, the regional forms of the starters we got from Legends: Arceus are effectively speaking, their own separate proper trio of starters, entirely separated from their original forms. H-Decidueye, H-Typhlosion, and H-Samurott form a proper trio of starters with each other, and their dual typings and whatnot are designed with respect to each other specifically, and as a trio they form a dual-typed threesome of starters and are formally the starter trio of the Hisui region. Not Johto, Unova, or Alola. They are Hisui starters.
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That would be true... if Hisuian Typhlosion evolved from Hisuian Quilava and Hisuian Cyndaquil. But it doesn't. It's still linked to Regular Quilava and Regular Cyndaquil, and by proxy it's linked to the rest of the Regular Johto Starters.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
I meant in relation to their base forms. Fire/Fairy Regional Espeon overlaps with both Regular Flareon and Regular Sylveon, while Grass/Ghost Regional Leafeon maintains the Grass typing of Regular Leafeon. If they were to make dual type regional eeveelutions, I would hope they actually take into account how their types overlap with the regular forms and make sure they all overlap in the same way.
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I don't see how it would be a problem if they didn't. They would still be Eeveelutions, yes, but they would also be their own separate group of Eeveelutions independent from the original group. The only consistency they would need would be with their own group, regardless of how they overlap with the original ones.
 
Here's one: I dislike regional forms in general. Some are fine(Raticate-A, Growlithe-H, etc) because the type change isn't severe and there's a lore justification, but something like Marowak-A feels like they didn't want to make a new mon, while Farfetch'd-G is just an excuse to avoid explaining why Farfetch'd-K can evolve now. I mean, what do the two Corsolas have in common?
 
PokePoindexter said:
I don't see how it would be a problem if they didn't. They would still be Eeveelutions, yes, but they would also be their own separate group of Eeveelutions independent from the original group. The only consistency they would need would be with their own group, regardless of how they overlap with the original ones.
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...No? What... the hell are you talking about?

Regional variants do not exist in a vacuum. They are very specifically variants, and thus will always exist to be compared to their originals. And in this case, the originals are the Eeveelutions. The group whose entire gimmick is that they're all different types. Because of this, a hypothetical set of dual type regional variants would need to pay special attention to which types they use. They're all like Autumn Leafeon where they all take the original's type and add an unused type to take it in a new direction? Cool. They're all like Aurora Umbreon where they take a different Eeveelution's type and add an unused type? Cool. But haphazardly throwing together types without any consideration to how they would fit into the greater decasextet is a terrible idea.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
...No? What... the hell are you talking about?

Regional variants do not exist in a vacuum. They are very specifically variants, and thus will always exist to be compared to their originals. And in this case, the originals are the Eeveelutions. The group whose entire gimmick is that they're all different types. Because of this, a hypothetical set of dual type regional variants would need to pay special attention to which types they use. They're all like Autumn Leafeon where they all take the original's type and add an unused type to take it in a new direction? Cool. They're all like Aurora Umbreon where they take a different Eeveelution's type and add an unused type? Cool. But haphazardly throwing together types without any consideration to how they would fit into the greater decasextet is a terrible idea.
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I get what you're saying here, but the thing is, that's all based on unwritten rules and still doesn't prove that such attention is needed. Speaking for myself, what I have always loved about the Eeveelutions isn't so much the existence of their gimmick as their designs and utility in battle (in past gens, anyway). At the end of the day, the Eeveelutions are still just Pokemon, and I use the same criteria to judge how much I like them that I do any other Pokemon, and any subcategories it may be part of or what gimmicks it may have are always an afterthought. Wormadam has basically that same gimmick, and yet I don't care for it. Hell, you could give that gimmick to Diggersby, and it still wouldn't make me hate that thing any less. Conversely, Morpeko happens to have a gimmick of its own, but said gimmick isn't the main thing that makes me love it - that would be its bonkers signature attack that makes the mon deceptively strong when combined with its huge movepool.

If, as you put it, "haphazardly throwing together types without any consideration to how they would fit into the greater decasextet" means better designs, more realized concepts, increased utility in battle, and an overall higher-quality octet, I'd say that's a reasonable price to pay.
 
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Sorry I'm late to the whole battle discussion, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents.
I felt that the PLA battle system kind of cheated you by giving certain bosses a free turn and letting their faster Pokemon troll you, and Volo having 8 Mons is just mean. And using three Pokemon at once, even when they're underleveled, makes the fights really hard, and I've thoroughly enjoyed all of them so far.
 
Nitro Indigo said:
It bothers me how they got rid of multi-target moves in a game where it's common for you to be outnumbered. Other games with Combatant Cooldown Systems like Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth do have multi-target attacks, so why not Legends? Also, I was disappointed when I discovered that the action elements weren't taken further; your Pokémon's elevation has no effect on battle, for example.
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Except when they repeatedly fall of a cliff.
 
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