Hello everyone! Following the results of the last survey, the council has decided to suspect test Latios (again!).
As you probably already know by now, Latios has been a dominant and centralizing piece of the metagame right from the start due to its fantastic all-round qualities. Its Special Attack and Speed are both fantastic, and they're backed up by a powerful STAB move in Draco Meteor, a reliable STAB Psychic, and various coverage options that help it out against would-be answers. This makes Latios a great wallbreaker and revenge killer in one, but it doesn't end there- Latios has deceptively good bulk in combination with its solid set of resistances and Levitate, which makes it quite easy to switch in even without the support of some of this tier's fantastic pivots and gives it unprecedented staying power for something so strong and fast. Much of what was said in the first suspect thread remains true in the current metagame- we'd recommend anyone less familiar with the metagame to read the opening post over there.
Latios's Choice Specs set has been its most popular set since the very start, and never let go of it for obvious reasons: very few Pokemon can handle Choice Specs Draco Meteor, and those who can either don't stand up to repeated assaults at all, are vulnerable to one of Latios's coverage options blasting them on switchin, are passive and exploitable, or are called Scizor. Even Scizor isn't entirely safe, though, as not only is it obviously vulnerable to Magnezone on DragMag but also 2HKOed by the niche Thunder (or the even more niche manual Rain-boosted Surf). A more recent trend, however, is the constantly increasing popularity of the Soul Dew set that runs Calm Mind, Draco Meteor, Psychic, and Recover in order to ease prediction and act as a win condition versus more balanced styles. Players are now often faced with a guessing game- if the opposing Latios is CM Soul Dew then giving it a free setup opportunity could be fatal, but staying in to try and punish that in some way may result in massive damage or a KO from Choice Specs Latios. In any case, the guessing game is more of a bonus as both of these sets consistently put in work in any matchup. Having two equally powerful sets under its belt, alongside other more niche but threatening options such as Life Orb and Choice Scarf, can make being confident about what Latios will do to you quite difficult.
As always, Latios isn't perfect. Scizor is a sturdy answer in most scenarios if not played recklessly, which is bad news for Latios when Scizor is as popular as ever- though of course, as said earlier, it's far from impenetrable. Stall has adapted to a powerful presence by once again picking up Calm Mind Blissey, which makes the style quite resilient to Latios alongside Clefable forcing precise prediction from the Latios player to make progress with it. It's possible to cover Latios's most likely attacking options on balance with solid prediction- for example, Specially Defensive Heatran paired with a Water resist can keep Latios in check if you predict it well enough. The metagame also has various offensive Pokemon that can exploit Latios- the most prominent is Weavile, who easily outspeeds and threatens to OHKO with either STAB move. Weavile is, however, also a great partner for Latios that naturally covers many of its bad matchups and helps soften the likes of Scizor and Heatran, so this balances out somewhat. Latios weakening itself with Draco Meteor can also leave it open to becoming setup fodder against massive threats like Azumarill or Feraligatr, but this is far from an unmanageable flaw and can usually be played around. As it stands, none of these flaws are enough to prevent Latios from being absolutely dominant.
While things have changed around it since the last suspect test, Latios has remained as good, if not better, than it was, and it continues to shape the tier around itself. Very few of the playerbase's speculative ideas for keeping it in check have really panned out, and this is reflected in the playerbase voting more than ever to take action on it again.
- ***THIS IS NEW TO GEN 8 SUSPECTS*** Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 78 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 78 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 82. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 78 GXE will suffice.
GXE | Minimum games |
78 | 50 |
78.2 | 49 |
78.4 | 48 |
78.6 | 47 |
78.8 | 46 |
79 | 45 |
79.2 | 44 |
79.4 | 43 |
79.6 | 42 |
79.8 | 41 |
80 | 40 |
80.2 | 39 |
80.4 | 38 |
80.6 | 37 |
80.8 | 36 |
81 | 35 |
81.2 | 34 |
81.4 | 33 |
81.6 | 32 |
81.8 | 31 |
82 | 30 |
- You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be BD4S. For example, I might sign up with the ladder account BD4S Lalaya.
- Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted. Moderator discretion will be applied here. If there is any doubt or hesitance when making the alt, just pick another name. There are infinite possibilities and we have had trouble for this repeatedly. If you wish to participate in the suspect, you should be able to exhibit decent enough judgement here. We will not be lenient.
- We will be using the regular BDSP OU ladder for this suspect test. We will not be creating a new Suspect Ladder. At the beginning of every battle, there will be an announcement denoting the ongoing suspect with a link to this thread.
- The aspect being tested, Latios, will be allowed on the ladder.
- Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.
- Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.
- Unlike previous tests, we will be posting the voting identification thread immediately after this thread. Your voting requisites will be confirmed by a Council member or BDSP Metagames moderator, to which we will edit in confirmation. Please avoid getting more games before getting confirmed.
- The suspect test will go on for two weeks, lasting until May 4th at 11:59 pm (GMT+2), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.
- No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts;
- No discussion on other potential suspects;
- No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes retesting Latios vs other potential suspects;
- You are required to make respectful posts;
- You are required to read this thread before posting.
- Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
- Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
- Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
- You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
- Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderater.
- Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
- This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message a BDSP OU Council Member or BDSP Metagames forum moderator, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.
Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you. Happy posting and laddering!