Wait, Low Kick Weavile drops Ice Shard? What kind of world have I been living in? To my knowledge you replace trip Triple-Axel in most cases or teams using it typically auto-fold to Scale Shot SD Garchomp or DD Dnite.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
blooclipse
formerly Bluecliqse
it runs low kick sometimes to really run through stall, but that's it. its really niche
Clef can do a lot, and it's one of those mons that most dangerous at team preview.
I only ever slot Low Kick if my team gets bodied by Heatran.
blooclipse
formerly Bluecliqse
yeah, thats kind of what I said
it's a very niche pick and usually only fits when your team is super weak to a certain thing or needs it to break through certain mons on stall
Basically every move on SD has a pretty big opportunity cost in not running, but I find ice shard possibly the most non negotiable, it feels like the main reason you run Weavile over other SD users because strong STAB ice priority combined with everything else that's been talked to death about Weavile is really hard to argue against because of how much utility it provides against non-stall matchups (aka the large majority of what you'll be facing anyway lol). That being said, if you're just counter teaming or trying to MU fish (just like stall) obviously that won't matter
When it comes to ExcaTtar sand cores, another thing that makes them nice to run is that Ttar is pretty nice at stopgapping a lot of cheese variants, like some veil HO and rain. That feels pretty valuable right now especially on ladder, where offense is running rampant right now lol
When it comes to ExcaTtar sand cores, another thing that makes them nice to run is that Ttar is pretty nice at stopgapping a lot of cheese variants, like some veil HO and rain. That feels pretty valuable right now especially on ladder, where offense is running rampant right now lol
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blooclipse
formerly Bluecliqse
Ttar is like the no-nonsense mon
it gets in, sponges hits, and nukes something back
it should be used more tbh
Veil has a hard time breaking through and can barely stop Excadrill from destroying them
sand is like the perfect counter to rain
weak to rain? slap a ttar on that baby
people have mentioned drill better than I could but I have an entire post up as to why ttar's strength carries it to the spot of 2nd best band mon in the tier, a small concession to it though is that it isn't the strongest band mon - gapdos is - but it's still a better mon imo because of how much bulkier it is between the free av and lack of constant recoil and contact damage.
I agree with some of the others when they say that Iron Barbs would be better. I feel like Anticipation only signals to the opponent that they can get chip damage on Ferro with U-turn without taking damage back, which is kind of wild. I'd also say the EVs could use some work. Like, defensive Ferro runs Gyro Ball and Power Whip with 0 attack EVs and does good damage with it, so if you're running Swords Dance or Curse (better imo) those 252 attack EVs feels like it could be better spent elsewhere.
At a glance I'd probably do something like:
Code:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Body Press
Stall (Tangrowth) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
Will (Blissey) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
Kill (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze
Been playing this set in the 1200s along with 3 breakers and sweepers and its been going well
All 3 mons have their coverage
Not to mention it makes opponents rage because 2 regenerators/blissey yknow?
I'd like some improvements (if possible) and members to add to it
Im using landorous (ground typing thats why), Bisharp (really op in some sweep cases) and Urshifu R (with scarf since I'm an idiot)
So, if you can improve this, I'd like ur comments!
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
Will (Blissey) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
Kill (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze
Been playing this set in the 1200s along with 3 breakers and sweepers and its been going well
All 3 mons have their coverage
Not to mention it makes opponents rage because 2 regenerators/blissey yknow?
I'd like some improvements (if possible) and members to add to it
Im using landorous (ground typing thats why), Bisharp (really op in some sweep cases) and Urshifu R (with scarf since I'm an idiot)
So, if you can improve this, I'd like ur comments!
Thread is a bit quiet lately sooo let's get some discussion going.
Kartana is in my opinion, one of the best offensive options in the tier right now. There's obvious choice scarf, and of course life orb sets with SD, but one set that has popped up and is truly intriguing as of late, is the protective pads set. With Kartana's naturally huge attack, it's not necessarily needing a boosting item and by running PPads, it can bypass the often irritating issue of contact effects for physical attackers. Namely the many rocky helmets being spammed on defensive Pokemon, as well as bypassing garchomp's rough skin, Ferrothorn's iron barbs, and Heatran/Volcarona's flame body and Zapdos' static.
Not only is this nice for preventing its sweeps from being cut short, but it also lets it contribute to progress via knock off without fear of being crippled or worn down, and generally spreading damage with attacks. For this reason I personally find that protective pads kartana is an amazing progress making tool that doubles as a sweeper. PPads Kartana I think is also an amazing Weavile partner.
This is all just what I think. I'm curious what other players think of protective pads Kartana, or just Kartana in general. What do you think of the PPads set? What do you think of Kartana in the current Metagames as a whole? And if you use it, what are your favorite partners for it?
Kartana is in my opinion, one of the best offensive options in the tier right now. There's obvious choice scarf, and of course life orb sets with SD, but one set that has popped up and is truly intriguing as of late, is the protective pads set. With Kartana's naturally huge attack, it's not necessarily needing a boosting item and by running PPads, it can bypass the often irritating issue of contact effects for physical attackers. Namely the many rocky helmets being spammed on defensive Pokemon, as well as bypassing garchomp's rough skin, Ferrothorn's iron barbs, and Heatran/Volcarona's flame body and Zapdos' static.
Not only is this nice for preventing its sweeps from being cut short, but it also lets it contribute to progress via knock off without fear of being crippled or worn down, and generally spreading damage with attacks. For this reason I personally find that protective pads kartana is an amazing progress making tool that doubles as a sweeper. PPads Kartana I think is also an amazing Weavile partner.
This is all just what I think. I'm curious what other players think of protective pads Kartana, or just Kartana in general. What do you think of the PPads set? What do you think of Kartana in the current Metagames as a whole? And if you use it, what are your favorite partners for it?
I had posted a set I've been dabbling with a bit lately a page back with Pro Pads on Kart.
Kartana @ Protective Pads
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut
I had paired it with Lele+Slowbro for Fsight and Psy Terrain Support. Psycho Cut let it contend better with both Zapdos and Buzzwole. A lot of other things can slot Knock Off, so not having it here didn't feel detrimental, and also with Protective Pads you mitigate the effects of the items you'd be knocking anyways.
Overall I think SD and Scarf are it's two best sets, Band feels a bit more restrictive to play and build with.
Sample Team, not optimized
Edit: Mandibuzz should have Knock Off, not Foul Play. That's an oops moment
Kartana @ Protective Pads
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut
I had paired it with Lele+Slowbro for Fsight and Psy Terrain Support. Psycho Cut let it contend better with both Zapdos and Buzzwole. A lot of other things can slot Knock Off, so not having it here didn't feel detrimental, and also with Protective Pads you mitigate the effects of the items you'd be knocking anyways.
Overall I think SD and Scarf are it's two best sets, Band feels a bit more restrictive to play and build with.
Sample Team, not optimized
Edit: Mandibuzz should have Knock Off, not Foul Play. That's an oops moment
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I just prefer using Leftovers + Grassy Terrain. Main thing PP helps u against is Static + Flame body, which is fair thing to be concerned about, but Leftovers + Grassy Terrain puts Kartana in a much better spot vs the rest of the metagame, regardless of whether its pivoting in on resisted attacks, healing off residual damage from entry hazards + Spikes, etc. Rocky Helmet becomes a non-issue once you use knock off anyway (or if you are using Swords Dance) and Leftovers + Grassy Terrain lets Kartana heal off the chip damage over time.
Kartana is pretty rad. I do like the SpDef set Ctann posted a while back because it gives Kartana a lot more defensive utility and makes it harder to revenge kill. Its espicially strong when in Grassy Terrain, though that applies to many other mons too tbf.
EDIT: Actually if you are worried about Flame Body / Static, Kartana could also be ran on a Misty Terrain Team.
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CM Fini+Grounded Phys Mons has always felt pretty nice. I could see it slotting alongside TTar+Exca cores that have been popping up on semi-sand.
Yeah, Grassy terrain is a huge boon for Kart. It helps it stave off the revenge kill threshold from Weavile's Ice Shard, among other things, not to mention how powerful it makes its Leaf Blades. That also offsets the lack of a Life Orb on a SD set.
On another note,
I was using the WishPort set, and was at first dismayed to see it has to use Unaware as its ability for compatibility reasons. However, I now find Unaware to be an extremely useful and consistent ability, even if at first I thought it was a complete waste of an ability slot or dedicated to stall teams only.
On another note,
I was using the WishPort set, and was at first dismayed to see it has to use Unaware as its ability for compatibility reasons. However, I now find Unaware to be an extremely useful and consistent ability, even if at first I thought it was a complete waste of an ability slot or dedicated to stall teams only.
I tried a speed boosting version under sun and grassy terran to make up for the loss of power and it was pretty ridiculous how easily it could set up and sweep entire teams.
Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Solar Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
Solar Blade doesn't give a shit about 2x resists under grassy terrain and sacred sword/knock are at least neutral on the quad resists. Even when sun runs out you'll have fantastic coverage if you've nuked the fairy beforehand. It hits so hard you could hardly imagine it's got a negative nature and imperfect attack IVs so the speed boost really catches people off-guard.
I ran this on the same team to abuse the grassy sun combo further:
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 32 HP / 28 Def / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance / Morning Sun
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
Just outrageous power if you've got a good gameplan for heatran on the rest of your team.
Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Solar Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
Solar Blade doesn't give a shit about 2x resists under grassy terrain and sacred sword/knock are at least neutral on the quad resists. Even when sun runs out you'll have fantastic coverage if you've nuked the fairy beforehand. It hits so hard you could hardly imagine it's got a negative nature and imperfect attack IVs so the speed boost really catches people off-guard.
I ran this on the same team to abuse the grassy sun combo further:
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 32 HP / 28 Def / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance / Morning Sun
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
Just outrageous power if you've got a good gameplan for heatran on the rest of your team.
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oh and the problem with that set is that you don't ohko zapdos at +2 with knock with minimum chip
+2 252 Atk Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 245-289 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but with life orb
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 318-376 (83 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
not much of a diffrence but still
+2 252 Atk Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 245-289 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but with life orb
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 318-376 (83 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
not much of a diffrence but still
Well... Like I mentioned it also bypasses flame body Heatran and Volcarona. And dodges all the contact damage from helmet and barbs/skin chip, which can help it avoid being worn down.
Removing defensive Zapdos' boots is still immensely useful for putting pressure on later and being able to do so without risk of being static'd is very nice.
As far as grassy terrain lefties Kartana goes, it's a perfectly good and valid set though personally I find it a little tough to build around since you need either boom or bulu and both are hard to build with (I personally especially don't like Boom because of its defensive shortcomings that stacks with Kartana). Still though, a good set up when built right. I do love grassy boosted leaf blades busting through things.
fair point
I've dabbled around with this:
Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Taunt
Mostly standard Vic but with Taunt over a coverage move. Helps keep hazards and status to a minimum. Then there's this which I haven't used as much but has a fun surprise factor:
Victini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-
- Psyshock
- Thunder/Trick
- U-turn
Mostly standard Vic but with Taunt over a coverage move. Helps keep hazards and status to a minimum. Then there's this which I haven't used as much but has a fun surprise factor:
Victini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Thunder/Trick
- U-turn
[/QUOTE]
why not blue flare?
Victini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Thunder/Trick
- U-turn
[/QUOTE]
why not blue flare?
Yes it should. Not sure why it wasn't in the first place.