Guys wanna know a secret?
Metagross was considered for uber before RS came out/started!!!!!!!
Metagross was considered for uber before RS came out/started!!!!!!!
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The De-Uberization.
- Thread starter Lyfsaho
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Yes, I have been playing Pokemon for a long time. I know what a counter is. Raikou is not a counter, as it can only come in once, which I CLEARLY showed - are you stubborn, dumb, or a troll? I'm seriously wondering this.
Just asked Seph about it and he said that Raikou is a definite Manaphy counter.
One layer of spikes is 12.5% damage. Maybe it was 6.25% in Adv?
Anyway, I do think we all can agree that by the stricted definition of "Counter" Raikou is a counter for Manaphy. And I think the case has been made that if Manaphy switches out to a generic Sp. Wall, Raikou loses in the long term.
I could almost be sure that some "respected" battlers said in the beginning that Garchomp was extremely powerful, almost broken, but that wasn't even the main point I'm trying to discuss Manaphy.
I see, I thought the arguments in this thread regarding Manaphy would be more than enough to give it a test.
Anyway this Raikou stuff is giving me a headache. I don't know what's so hard to find a common ground and just stop.
I'd go with dumb. I thought he was a troll on marriland for a good deal of time too.
I'm not joking
I was never a fan of spikes, so I can never remember how much each layer does. Since it's 12.5% rather than 6.25% like I thought, which was 50% likely to 2HKO, it's now:
Switch in on surf (46% min) + 1 layer of spikes (12.5%) = 41.5% maximum remaining health
Manaphy switches out, Raikou heals = 47.5% maximum remaining health.
Raikou leaves play due to counter.
Manaphy comes in again. Raikou comes in to counter, takes 12.5% from spikes, then the minimum 46% from surf. Drops to -11% MAXIMUM health remaining. That's dead as a nail.
2HKO guaranteed with 1 layer of spikes. Replace previous calculations with Sandstorm or Hail, which would give a coin flip 2HKO.
I gave my opinion on that test and why I felt another would benefit. It could indeed be a nightmare if he's allowed in OU again if the player uses it right (See: Tyranitar, Garchomp,Salamence,etc).
Anyway, I don't feel like I need to post more unless something else comes up. If Smogon say's its uber; it's uber even if their are doubts to warrant it's testing.
hmm yeah the almighty seph has declared raikou a definite manaphy counter, it must be true!
It sure as hell holds more weight than you saying it's not a counter.
hahahaha
I never said anywhere that you were. I just find it funny how you took the liberty of post that instead of SePh himself. Nobody is going to validate it as SePh's opinion unless SePh himself posts it.
That and just because SePh says something doesn't make it true. He's a really good guy and a great player, but you posting that he said Raikou is a counter is one of the worst arguements I've seen made so far.
footballfanatic said:
Lmfao. No, it doesn't. Not in any way, shape or form.
I asked SePh, he says he doesn't like posting in topics like these, so I asked if I could post a summary of what he said and he said it was fine.
Never did, just throwing an opinion out there. He used the same reasoning that I have when I asked him about, so I thought someone with a little name recognition would be able to back me up seeing as I'm pretty new hear.
And don't act like you don't put more faith in Seph's opinion than someone like mine, because I know you do(I know I do as well).
because Loki's trophy means nothing
Anyway, I don't think Wobbuffet deserves testing, mainly because it just isn't fun playing with Wobbuffet. There are a few cases when Wobbuffet comes in.
The game boils down into the most primitive of games. The opponent only has 4 choices. There is no point "playing" against a wobbuffet. The best choice is to flip a coin, really, something that neither you nor your opponent can predict.
The game boils down into the most primitive of games. The opponent only has 4 choices. There is no point "playing" against a wobbuffet. The best choice is to flip a coin, really, something that neither you nor your opponent can predict.
But I thought the general consensus was to minimize luck. You know, hax clause and all that nonsense?
That's fine. Whether he said it to me or not is besides the point, name-dropping was stupid, and then I fucked the situation up more.
Someone should sig it.
I agree. You may as well close your eyes and randomly click a attack, that way neither you nor your opponent know what's going to happen. It's pretty much the best you can do against it.
On a side note, this discussion is getting extremely out of hand. I suggest that everyone get back to the main topic, or I have a feeling that a moderator will close this topic without blinking an eye. Tier debates are frowned upon to begin with, and this is why.
I guess the general opinion about Wobbuffet could be disagreed by Shed Shell... but having all 6 Pokemon use it is a bit of a stretch. I guess for something say Skarmory could stop Wobbuffet if he Whirlwinds, as that would force a switch. I guess if we want to play a "counter" to Wobbuffet it would be PHazing, and that's not even saying much. Do abilities cancel out, like Arena Trap versus Shadow Tag, etc? If not... eh. >_>;
He could be tested I guess, but I think the results might be the same, sadly. Still, it would increase the popularity of Bellyzard and such is what I'm thinking of if he hits OU.
He could be tested I guess, but I think the results might be the same, sadly. Still, it would increase the popularity of Bellyzard and such is what I'm thinking of if he hits OU.
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