Unpopular opinions

Here's a wildly unpopular opinion - I actually like the slowness of Gen 4...to an extent. I will say DP took it way too far but HGSS and Platinum's engines hit it just right as far as game speed for me. Particularly with move animations, I found the HGSS and Platinum attacks to be much more dramatic in execution rather than Gen 5's which honestly seemed a bit cartoonish to me. Close Combat strikes me as move that was executed much more dramatically and impactfully in Gen 4 as compared to the Gen 5 rendition which seemed almost kind of slapstick.

I never had an issue with the game speed of HGSS and Platinum; as a matter fact I preferred it over the game speed of Gen 5 in many ways, particularly with respect to battle animations.
 
Wukong said:
Here's a wildly unpopular opinion - I actually like the slowness of Gen 4...to an extent. I will say DP took it way too far but HGSS and Platinum's engines hit it just right as far as game speed for me. Particularly with move animations, I found the HGSS and Platinum attacks to be much more dramatic in execution rather than Gen 5's which honestly seemed a bit cartoonish to me. Close Combat strikes me as move that was executed much more dramatically and impactfully in Gen 4 as compared to the Gen 5 rendition which seemed almost kind of slapstick.

I never had an issue with the game speed of HGSS and Platinum; as a matter fact I preferred it over the game speed of Gen 5 in many ways, particularly with respect to battle animations.
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I too appreciated the ability to Close Combat a Blissey, go grab a drink and make myself something to eat, and come back in time to watch the last quarter of its health creep down.
 
I grew up with gen 4 but I genuinely dislike Dialga and Palkia. I just think they look stupid and that their gimmick of representing time and space isn't incorporated well into their designs or their lore (which is basically just that they were made by Arceus and represent time and space)

Giratina's cool though
 
Local Dog said:
I grew up with gen 4 but I genuinely dislike Dialga and Palkia. I just think they look stupid and that their gimmick of representing time and space isn't incorporated well into their designs or their lore (which is basically just that they were made by Arceus and represent time and space)

Giratina's cool though
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I mean would Dialga really look better if it was based on a clock? Or Palkia if it was covered in stars? I definitely don’t think they’re the greatest Pokemon designs but I don’t think they’re that bad.
 
Coronis said:
Or Palkia if it was covered in stars?
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Strictly speaking, if the analogy for Dialga is a clock, then the more apt suggestion for Palkia would be like… a yardstick, or something, because it represents spatial dimensions, rather than the cosmos.

Which I think really sort of illustrates what’s so tricky about these two from a design perspective. Time and space are far more abstract than dualities like “land and sea” or “sun and moon,” or even “yin and yang” which, despite being a philosophical duality, has a ready-made starting point for any aesthetic choices. Temporal and spatial dimensions, on the other hand, aren’t really things that we even *see* — they’re the gridlines of the universe; they establish the parameters of how we see *everything else*.

Now, take that prospect and consider how to go about depicting it in the form of a pocket-sized creature that’s planned to go right on the box art of the new flagship games, and thus also has to be cool and relatable to people ranging from 6-years-old to adulthood… Dialga and Palkia aren’t my favorite mascots either, but in any case, that’s a pretty tall order, and I don’t envy the designers having to find their way to meeting it. In a way, I can totally see why they ended up leaning more into the “diamond and pearl” theme with a sort of angular/curved duality to help anchor and guide the designs, even though precious gemstones are not really what one might think of as obvious signifiers of four-dimensional spacetime. But hey, they at least still managed to work subtle clock hand marks into Dialga’s design.
 
Sweet Yamato said:
Kalos has the easiest league in the games
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I'd like to say it's a popular opinion.
Divine Retribution said:
I too appreciated the ability to Close Combat a Blissey, go grab a drink and make myself something to eat, and come back in time to watch the last quarter of its health creep down.
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Ah yes, the Pokémon equivalent of Supernova.
It's also really suspenseful. Survive? Won't survive? Like it or not, we all have something to say on high-damage moves dealt on Pokémon with lots of HP.
Arkm said:
Levitate as an ability should be scrapped.

Instead there should be an inbuilt mechanic like airborne/grounded which replaces it and works in conjunction with the ability of the mon.
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Unpopular? Probably not. But I'm backing up this idea.
That said, this also means we are going to keep the flying battle models... :smogduck:

Speaking of flying models, as much as I and everyone else dislike most of them, Xatu's model embodies the "So Bad, It's Good" saying:
xatu.gif
<- Look at this bird. It's staring at your soul as always, but now it's also flying! It's so uncanny, it's funny, mainly because we Pokémon fans were so used to see Xatu landed and not flying.
 
Power creep yes, it'd-be-broken-if-it-had-it yes, but I genuinely think it's farcical that Garchomp still doesn't get Dragon Dance when pretty much every other dragon does. Fairies exist, Ice-types exist, Zacian-C exists, multiple counters to Garchomp exist.

I'm not disputing that it'd be fearsomely powerful but... lots of Pokemon are fearsomely powerful and OP, especially in today's metagame. Garchomp with DD in Gen IV or V would have been super busted, but now... I'm not convinced. It already gets Swords Dance and Scale Shot which is the next best thing, and yes DD is a single turn of setup vs two but...

Eh. There are all manner of OP Pokemon running around atm, what's one more.
 
green_typhlosion said:
it's farcical that Garchomp still doesn't get Dragon Dance when pretty much every other dragon does.
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This reminds me of how Flygon didn't get Dragon Dance until Generation VII. (Vibrava still doesn't.)
But funnily enough, before Generation VIII I always thought the Gible line has access to this move, it just uses Swords Dance instead because 102 base Speed doesn't need to be boosted. I was dumb.
 
Maybe an unpopular opinion in and of itself, but DD Gar would 100% be Ubers. I don't think it can be stopped once it starts dancing. Kinda like Volcarona but worse
 
Arkm said:
Levitate as an ability should be scrapped.

Instead there should be an inbuilt mechanic like airborne/grounded which replaces it and works in conjunction with the ability of the mon.
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the creator of Showdown, in 2014 at least, agreed!

New mechanic: Intrinsics:

  • Pokémon that previously get Levitate are now immune to Ground intrinsically, although Mold Breaker still bypasses this immunity. Instead, many of them get new abilities in addition to their Ground immunity:
    • Azelf: Steadfast
    • Bronzong: Heatproof
    • Claydol: Filter
    • Cryogonal: Ice Body
    • Eelektross: Poison Heal
    • Flygon: Compoundeyes, Sand Rush
    • Hydreigon: Sheer Force
    • Mesprit: Serene Grace
    • Mismagius: Cursed Body
    • Rotom (all formes): Trace
    • Unown: Shadow Tag
    • Uxie: Synchronize
    • Weezing: Aftermath
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Hmm I think this mechanic would throw off balancing in a way

Flying types being immune to ground is part of the type effectiveness chart which should be balanced in and off itself (I mean it isn't but it's supposed to be). Levitate by being an ability foregoes the chart, but balances itself out by being an ability. The Mon isn't effected by ground types, but doesn't have any pros beyond that, other abilities could be better and by that, Levitate would have also have some opportunity cost

If a Mon is just in effected by ground type moves without being a flying type or having this trait as an ability, I don't think that would be balanced, even if the results from it weren't overpowered Mons.

I also think that it would overcomplicate some aspects of the game. Now you don't just have to remember the type chart, abilities, certain items and moves, but also some mechanic
 
I wouldn't replace Levitate with something else, but I would create some explicit status called "Airborne", which gives all the traits Levitate already has, but making it shared with things like the Flying-type and Magnet Rise.

Like, instead of describing Levitate with "By floating in the air, the Pokémon receives full immunity to all Ground-type moves.", instead make it "The Pokémon floats in the air and becomes Airborne".

And then, in the status section, add an "Airborne" tag that says "The Pokémon is immune to Ground-type moves, Arena Trap, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web" (and I may be forgetting some other effect). Then you can simplify things like Smack Down by saying "removes Airborne trait from the target".

It could be done for some other effects as well, such as something like "Untrappable" for Ghost-types and Pokémon holding a Shed Shell.

PS: Someone beat me to it :P

But basically that, "condensing" similar effects into a shared trait.
 
Realistically speaking there is no practical solution to the "Levitate" problem.

You can't make it an intrinsic property like ghost untrappability, because "levitating" isnt linked to a type, nor even to a body feature, as there are plenty of winged pokemon that aren't flying type, and plenty of levitating pokemon that don't levitate.

One very important feature Pokemon has tried to maintain over the years is readability. Outside of numeric shenenigans like IV and EVs (which they've been slowly trying to make more easy to understand at a glance, too), every mechanic is generally pretty easy to tell by just looking at a pokemon.
They've even added graphic indication of effectiveness/supereffectiveness in order to help people quickly know if their attacks will connect without having to check the pokemon type on the other side.

While you will know by default that a flying type is immune to ground, or (after reading about it in the tutorials or experiencing it), you'll likely figure that ghost types are immune to trapping or say, rock types take no damage from sandstorm and gain increased special defense.
However, you will never have a quick direct way to know "this pokemon is immune to ground type" if it was to become a intrinsic aspect that isnt linked to the type or ability.

(I would also add that, while rare, certain pokemon having Levitate + another ability actually allow for mind games where you won't know if they are immune to ground or not, similarly to how you would have to sometimes guess about a water absorb / storm drain or a lightning rod, and by making it innate you'd be taking away this mechanic).
 
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I think the other issue with this hypothetical intrinsic approach is that, visually, it locks the design and animation of the Pokemon to appear a certain way if there is not a consistent mechanical label like an Ability suggests.

For example: We have all the infamous Flying-Animations some Pokemon got in Gen 6 because of Sky Battles, because on top of Flying or Levitate for an ability, they had to be presented visually off the ground. If Levitate stopped being a sign-post for Ground Immunity on non-Flying types, then you end up exacerbating things like the Gengar disconnect (which I'm almost convinced is why they downgraded base Gengar from Levitate to Cursed Body in Gen 7). Pokemon that they want to make immune to Ground then MUST be airborne and/or be Flying-Type, the former raising questions like Magnezone floating without Magnet Rise, while the latter is very restrictive on type-design. Also tangentially related, remember how Ferroseed's quick spinning sprite-animation led people to ask about it learning Rapid Spin before they literally planted its 3D model to be stationary?

And we can't act like Levitate is a strictly inferior way to implement this interaction from a design stand-point either. It brings the ground based immunities (which besides EQ also includes Spiked Entry Hazards), does NOT add Flying's weaknesses (Electric and Ice not being weaknesses are a major boon defensively, as is Rock/Stealth Rock), and indirectly allows other typing benefits (having both Types for a defensive profile or STAB options on offense). If Levitate literally made the Pokemon behave as a Flying-Type does then I could see the case, but it is clearly designed to have a give-and-take in which the "take" is your ability slot. If anything, Levitate is one of the strongest abilities in the game, which might have more a hand in its scarcity overall than any flavor reason.
 
I've never understood why this idea comes up so frequently.

If you want to be truly consistent, and give intrinsic Levitate to every Pokemon who's model never touches the ground, you get the following issues:
1) Having a type interaction tied to a Pokemon's design is a huge design constraint.
2) It's a balance problem because a significant percentage of Steel-types have floating models
3) It leads to outright confusing conclusions, since basically every fish Pokemon has a floating model

If you're just arbitrarily picking and choosing, I don't see why it's any better than the status quo.

If you're able to accept that a Zekrom bearing down with full force on Wooper does no damage just because it's muddy, I don't see why you can't accept that Earthquake can hit a Pokemon that appears to be levitating.

Worldie said:
(I would also add that, while rare, certain pokemon having Levitate + another ability actually allow for mind games where you won't know if they are immune to ground or not, similarly to how you would have to sometimes guess about a water absorb / storm drain or a lightning rod, and by making it innate you'd be taking away this mechanic).
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TBF, the only canonical examples are Weezing(-G) and Bronzong, and any non-Levitate abilities worth using on the Weezings automatically announce themselves. Also, immunity abilities are strong enough that they're usually the best choice on a given Pokemon, so it's difficult to make alternates workable (and may be a bit unhealthy as well, as shown by CAP's Equilibra, because you're forced to always act as if it has the immunity ability until it's revealed otherwise).
 
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Duskull has Levitate and another ability as well... which also announces itself upon switch-in.

Also, now I'm wondering if the reason why the Magnets don't have Levitate is for balance, because every Pokémon with a bajillion resistances needs a double weakness to balance it out.
 
Nitro Indigo said:
Also, now I'm wondering if the reason why the Magnets don't have Levitate is for balance, because every Pokémon with a bajillion resistances needs a double weakness to balance it out.
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I think the main reason is just because it already has Magnet Pull, combined with the fact that all Pokemon that were given Levitate in the generation that abilities were introduced had Levitate as their only ability. Bronzong comes along a generation later, and it's the only one that breaks this rule until Duskull gets Frisk as an HA in Gen 6 and Weezing gets Neutralizing Gas in Gen 8.
 
I feel like The Levitate Debate is easier to resolve if you just think of Abilities as magic powers rather than natural expressions of a Pokemon's physical traits (which I think I've talked about before?). Sure there are plenty of Pokemon that levitate, but that doesn't mean they all capital-L Levitate. I'm sure that every Heliolisk has dry skin, but they don't all have Dry Skin. Slaking clearly has huge power, but it doesn't have Huge Power (thank god).

Obviously most Abilities are connected to the natural anatomy or behaviour of a Pokemon species in some way, but imo the way they function requires a handwave-y supernatural explanation. Otherwise, you're stuck trying to logically explain why Wooper can be wet and slimy enough to stop explosions or wet and slimy enough to be healed whenever it gets hit by water, but not both.
 
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Cobalt Empoleon said:
I feel like The Levitate Debate is easier to resolve if you just think of Abilities as magic powers rather than natural expressions of a Pokemon's physical traits (which I think I've talked about before?). Sure there are plenty of Pokemon that levitate, but that doesn't mean they all capital-L Levitate. I'm sure that every Heliolisk has dry skin, but they don't all have Dry Skin. Slaking clearly has huge power, but it doesn't have Huge Power (thank god).

Obviously most Abilities are connected to the natural anatomy or behaviour of a Pokemon species in some way, but imo the way they function requires an arbitrarily supernatural explanation. Otherwise you're stuck trying to logically explain why Wooper can be wet and slimy enough to stop explosions or wet and slimy enough to be healed whenever it gets hit by water, but not both.
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Would also explain stuff like Trace and Skill Swap.
 
Levitate is kind of a relic of how abilities used to be designed - with a handful of exceptions, such as Drizzle and Drought, abilities used to be widely distributed over a great number of Pokemon, a trend which generally continued up until Generation 5 (even with the introduction of hidden abilities). While Abilities were certainly a notable aspect of Pokemon design, the reasoning of giving a Pokemon their abilities was different.

As of about Generation 6, new abilities tend to be much more unique, with almost every single line from 6 onwards having a unique ability. Far from being simply a part of a Pokemon's design, abilities tend to be much more integrated with their overall aesthetic and personality - just take a look at 'mons such as Aegislash Mimikyu, or Cramorant for the most visually obvious examples of this. Essentially, the philosophy shifted from abilities being designed, and then applied to Pokemon that suit the ability, to abilities being designed in tandem with a Pokemon (with other suiting abilities being applied too, of course). This is especially true when you look at Levitate - over the past 3 generations, only 'mon has Levitate, Vikavolt (and G-Weezing, but regional variants are somewhat different in this respect).

I'm not saying one approach is necessarily better than the other, as I think both ways of tackling abilities have merit, but this discussion of Levitate and making it a property or characteristic of sorts kinda reminds me of how abilities... well, used to be kinda like that. If such a property system were to be implemented, it could be an interesting way to bring back this old ability design philosophy in a new way, but they'd have to be careful about both balance and clarity to the player - something that abilities alone can often struggle with.
 
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