flailage.... how do you unlock wolf?
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Super Smash Bros. Brawl Discussion #2 (spoilers)
- Thread starter Sonuis
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There are 6 clones in melee to 25 characters, and 7 new characters with new movesets(not including clones)
There are 5 clones in Brawl to 35 characters,and 11 new characters with new movesets(not including ZSS)
That doesn't include Luigi in either.
so less clones and more new characters and a larger roster. This game is going to be amazing.
I still have to say WTF to Wolf though one clone is fine but two is just a waste.
There are 5 clones in Brawl to 35 characters,and 11 new characters with new movesets(not including ZSS)
That doesn't include Luigi in either.
so less clones and more new characters and a larger roster. This game is going to be amazing.
I still have to say WTF to Wolf though one clone is fine but two is just a waste.
Supposedly, he was unlocked in a Subspace Emissary, from a path that was missed the first time.
All the smash sites are down............and YES WOLF! Stupid FS though. Has it been confirmed if we can play as Zamus without smashball? If we can't........that sucks.
luigis final smash:
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08053/luigifs621.jpg
and a better pic of jigglypuff's o_o:
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08053/jiggyfs958.jpg
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08053/luigifs621.jpg
and a better pic of jigglypuff's o_o:
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08053/jiggyfs958.jpg
I completely agree with you Aquirri. Who needs the Dojo?! Now that my boy "Wolf" has been 100% confirmed, I can rest easy. Don't know if he'll be better than Fox though, but I can't complain. All I know is that serebii.net has shown the official final roster and I couldn't be happier. (With the exception of a few clone characters that is -_-.) 35 characters in total! Sweetness, oh the sweetness!
Oh come on. TWO Fox clones? If they're to have clones, why not have Wolf be a heavy clone of, say, ZSS? At least we could get that set without final smashes. Better yet, make Wolf the heavy Falcon clone and give Ganondorf some love. Or they could have had Ridley as a Charizard clone with an unique down+b. Heck, I'd be ok with cloning any of Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard/Sheik/Zelda as a standalone version of them. Or, why not, Ludwig von Koopa (fuck Bowser Jr.) as a clone of Bowser. Dark Samus as a clone of Samus. K Rool as a clone of DK. But three Fox? Come on :( They should have eliminated Falco.
The full roster isn't bad by any means, despite three Fox (I know I'm going to be using Wolf - he's ten times cooler than Fox and Falco combined). It's just that when you look at all the characters revealed on the Dojo and the ones we knew from Melee, and when you consider that Lucario is mostly a Mewtwo remake, the unrevealed characters feature _ONE_ fully original character. And that character, of all characters, is ROB. In Melee, we only had Marth, Mewtwo and G&W and that's still three times Brawl's original material. I concede (assume) that they have retooled the clones enough that they have at least one distinctive thing (and Lucario looks pretty cool so far despite being a terrible pokemon), but the unlockable roster is still a letdown when you compare it to the stellar starting roster. Serves me right for having such high expectations.
Edit: taking on the final roster, here are my complaints (which I think are legitimate):
- Three Fox are too many.
- Ganondorf still being a Falcon clone is an _insult_ to the king of evil. An insult, I say.
- You can't select ZSS separately? (I hope I'm wrong about that one)
- Personally, I think that if there are clones then all characters should have a clone, just to be fair and not overrepresent a moveset. Maybe that's just me, though.
The full roster isn't bad by any means, despite three Fox (I know I'm going to be using Wolf - he's ten times cooler than Fox and Falco combined). It's just that when you look at all the characters revealed on the Dojo and the ones we knew from Melee, and when you consider that Lucario is mostly a Mewtwo remake, the unrevealed characters feature _ONE_ fully original character. And that character, of all characters, is ROB. In Melee, we only had Marth, Mewtwo and G&W and that's still three times Brawl's original material. I concede (assume) that they have retooled the clones enough that they have at least one distinctive thing (and Lucario looks pretty cool so far despite being a terrible pokemon), but the unlockable roster is still a letdown when you compare it to the stellar starting roster. Serves me right for having such high expectations.
Edit: taking on the final roster, here are my complaints (which I think are legitimate):
- Three Fox are too many.
- Ganondorf still being a Falcon clone is an _insult_ to the king of evil. An insult, I say.
- You can't select ZSS separately? (I hope I'm wrong about that one)
- Personally, I think that if there are clones then all characters should have a clone, just to be fair and not overrepresent a moveset. Maybe that's just me, though.
Hmmm, I completely agree with you, Brain. Three fox clones is a bit extreme. So, Wolf's final smash is really the landmaster? I was looking forward to wolf being a fresh character with distinct differences. I am officially thoroughly pissed off! WTF, Wolf....why...why..did you have to be born from Fox's shadow. Jeez, I would have replaced Falco with Krystal or something. Her staff has an abundance of variety, when it comes to a possible move set. (Up B) staff booster/ (B) flame shot/ (left/right B) some kind of ice blade/ (Down B) i guess a reflector shield like they had for Fox in Adventures. Just a thought. But yeah, I'm still gonna be playing with Wolf. Besides, I love wolves in general, so I can't possibly avoid him! ^^
falcon and ganon cant be considered clones since they played totally different. ganon was slow so it was absolutley necesary to l-cancel. falcon is fast as hell but weaker, and l-canceling, though better if used, wasnt as necesary. they had major differences and IMO, differed more than some non "clone" characters.
having simmilar moves doesnt make a character a clone, is what im saying.
everyone stop whining about clones. "SAKURAI I HATEZ UZ! UZ GAVE MEZ LES CLOANS." gets annoying
having simmilar moves doesnt make a character a clone, is what im saying.
everyone stop whining about clones. "SAKURAI I HATEZ UZ! UZ GAVE MEZ LES CLOANS." gets annoying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6uRcUADi8
Wolf gameplay...kinda...sorta. It's a bit difficult to make out what's going on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/foolio327/MetalGearSpoiler.jpg
Rope Snake for Brawl or bust.
Wolf gameplay...kinda...sorta. It's a bit difficult to make out what's going on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/foolio327/MetalGearSpoiler.jpg
Rope Snake for Brawl or bust.
Once again people are being disappointed because their too-high expectations are not being met. This looks like it'll be a better game than Melee was.
Plus, I think most of the clones this time around are clones in the style of Mario/Luigi: similar specials but with different regular attacks. I know Ness and Lucas have slightly differing final smashes, with Ness' having a homing ability. Hopefully the Furry Space Cadets will also differ in what their Landmasters do.
Landmasters do suck though, especially with Falco saying in 64 that he'd never be in one of them.
Plus, I think most of the clones this time around are clones in the style of Mario/Luigi: similar specials but with different regular attacks. I know Ness and Lucas have slightly differing final smashes, with Ness' having a homing ability. Hopefully the Furry Space Cadets will also differ in what their Landmasters do.
Landmasters do suck though, especially with Falco saying in 64 that he'd never be in one of them.
I completely agree that Falcon and Ganondorf play very differently. But as you said yourself, their moves (especially the character-defining B moves) are similar in aesthetics. And that is where my beef with this lies. When I play a character, I want to feel like I'm actually playing that character. In order for that to happen, the character needs to have original moves from their games. Ganondorf doesn't have that. Sure he looks like Ganondorf, but he doesn't play like Ganondorf. He plays like a modifed Captain Falcon.... which is exactly what he is. I'm just saying that such an important character deserves to have his own original moves that originate from his games..... not be a cheap copy-paste of another character.
eh, same here. It made sense to expect alot though. I mean, with Sakurai saying that he wouldn't reveal unlockables on the dojo and with Melee having so many new unlockables I thought it was a given that Brawl would follow suit. Also seeing how diversified and amazing the stage and music selection is, I figured the character roster would follow suit.
agreed, revealing so many newcomers got people's hopes up and only lead to disappointment. Personally I love the idea of ROB though. I mean, without R.O.B., video gaming would be completely different than it is today. I think he's a great way to represent that part of Nintendo's history :D
Realllllly now?? Good find! That's very interesting..... and assuming that this is true I think I understand the roster a bit now. It really looks like the roster was based off this list and this list alone (with the exception of WTF characters like R.O.B.). Basing a roster off a popularity poll would seem to make sense .... but in reality doing so is a bit of a mistake, because it really limits the representative franchises to the most popular ones. SSB should be a diversified representation of Nintendo as a whole, and not just limited to the most popular franchises. (example: Starfox having 3 reps and the long running Advance Wars and Custom Robo series having none.)
And D: @ Geno. How did he not make it in??? Eh, probably legal trouble as you said.... oh well. But I'd think that if they could work stuff out with Sega/Konami they could have worked out a deal with Square Enix...
Anyways, on a lighter note, check out these videos:http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=fairuzons
Final Destination is beautiful. And CF's entrance is awesome.
And what the heck at Wolf using a Starfox team Landmaster as his Final Smash. That doesn't make sense!!!
EDIT: LUIGI FINAL SMASH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LckvnqXmujc
lol what the crap??
Sakurai pulled a Melee. :\
3 Starfox reps was ok, but why couldn't Wolf be original? Come on, Sakurai could have used any of the weapons from Assault (Rocket Launcher, Machine / Gatling Gun, etc). But nuuuu, we get another aesthetically different Fox. Wolf is awesome, but honestly. Sakurai could have done better here (again).
I hate people trying to justify clones. You're in denial people, clones are crap. Ganondorf had other possibilities for movesets, Toon Link had Wind Waker / Minish Cap weapons at his disposable, Falco had that dual-wielding thing going for him in that one screenshot, and Wolf had the option of a plethora of other weapons. 4 characters could have had completely new, fresh movesets. Why opt for recycling other characters' movesets?
Well actually, 5... Ness and Lucas have the exact same smashes and FS.
On that note of FS, Wolf could have just... Jumped into his Wolfen and laser'd up the whole place. But no, we get more tank FS. :|
It's not like Sakurai didn't have time.
EDIT: Well, Brawl will still be awesome! I'm fine with 35 characters, I guess! Maybe in another 7 years, SSB4 will have 49. 8D
3 Starfox reps was ok, but why couldn't Wolf be original? Come on, Sakurai could have used any of the weapons from Assault (Rocket Launcher, Machine / Gatling Gun, etc). But nuuuu, we get another aesthetically different Fox. Wolf is awesome, but honestly. Sakurai could have done better here (again).
I hate people trying to justify clones. You're in denial people, clones are crap. Ganondorf had other possibilities for movesets, Toon Link had Wind Waker / Minish Cap weapons at his disposable, Falco had that dual-wielding thing going for him in that one screenshot, and Wolf had the option of a plethora of other weapons. 4 characters could have had completely new, fresh movesets. Why opt for recycling other characters' movesets?
Well actually, 5... Ness and Lucas have the exact same smashes and FS.
On that note of FS, Wolf could have just... Jumped into his Wolfen and laser'd up the whole place. But no, we get more tank FS. :|
It's not like Sakurai didn't have time.
EDIT: Well, Brawl will still be awesome! I'm fine with 35 characters, I guess! Maybe in another 7 years, SSB4 will have 49. 8D
I kinda think with the Geno thing it would have been trickier since it's been pretty public knowledge since Melee came out that Hideo Kojima wanted Snake in Smash and honestly how picky can Sega be where Sonic appears nowdays(not to mention both Snake and Sonic actually appear in new games and thus have marketing value), they sure can't get him in a "Player's Choice" game(or whatever the fuck they call that level of sales nowdays) on their own...
Anyway while I would agree the secret characters are pretty underwhelming(awesome! a clone of a character we already have two of!), honestly I don't think there's any justified way to complain about the roster changes from Melee to Brawl. There are always going to be more characters we'd like to see make it in that don't, it is completely unrealistic to believe that every character you like will somehow magically end up in the game. I think in general people greatly underestimate the difficulty in adding a character, between creating all of their attacks, making them at least somewhat balanced, adding the music and stages and that sort of thing and adding in the complications of copyright and royalty issues(which, by the way, is probably why we don't have an SMRPG character), it's not like they just hit copy/paste from the game the character previously appeared in. Since the last installment of the game we added Pokemon Trainer, MetaKnight, Dedede, ROB, Diddy Kong, Pit, Solid Snake, Sonic, Wario, and Olimar that are completely new movesets and characters and several old characters were retooled or recloned. I think those additions alone are a huge step up from the roster we had in the last game, and the increased amount of other new shit in the game(music, stages, a one player mode that is greatly improved, among others) certainly doesn't hurt either.
As people we always want more than we got but I think I think if you step back and look at what we got it's pretty easy to be satisfied., it's a huge step up from the last installment as far as what they added in
Firestorm said:
id take mallow over geno any day ok >:(
even if he isn't a tadpole
Mmm... why don't we just skip February this year? Who needs it, right?!
EDIT: Smash Attacks of characters gogogo
Marth
- He preforms a critical hit ala Fire Emblem games, and KOs the target (I think). Even the FE Life Bar appears.
Jigglypuff
- Gigapuff anyone? No idea what it does though, but I read around that it might be called Hyper Voice.
Falco
- Landmaster. Any changes : Unknown. :O
Ness
- PK Starstorm. It's probably the exact same as Lucas'.
Game and Watch
- Turns into an uhh... Octopus. O_O
Ganondorf
- Transforms into Ganon!
Luigi
- I don't know how to describe it... Some psychedelic slow-down makes everything inverted thing.
Toon Link
- Unknown. Speculated that he floods the stage.
ROB
- Unknown.
Lucario
- Kinda like Deoxys' Hyper Beam, but it targets, I think... Or just shoots at an angle.
Cpt. Falcon
- He jumps into his F-Zero, and through his perspective (Basically nobody can see) he runs everyone over. <_<
I'll edit in as I find more info / pics / videos.
EDIT: Smash Attacks of characters gogogo
Marth
- He preforms a critical hit ala Fire Emblem games, and KOs the target (I think). Even the FE Life Bar appears.
Jigglypuff
- Gigapuff anyone? No idea what it does though, but I read around that it might be called Hyper Voice.
Falco
- Landmaster. Any changes : Unknown. :O
Ness
- PK Starstorm. It's probably the exact same as Lucas'.
Game and Watch
- Turns into an uhh... Octopus. O_O
Ganondorf
- Transforms into Ganon!
Luigi
- I don't know how to describe it... Some psychedelic slow-down makes everything inverted thing.
Toon Link
- Unknown. Speculated that he floods the stage.
ROB
- Unknown.
Lucario
- Kinda like Deoxys' Hyper Beam, but it targets, I think... Or just shoots at an angle.
Cpt. Falcon
- He jumps into his F-Zero, and through his perspective (Basically nobody can see) he runs everyone over. <_<
I'll edit in as I find more info / pics / videos.
Do you want me to do a full debate with you on this issue? Because I can =)
XFD @ Wolf's final smash
Oh shit guys red landmaster!!! I agree Ridley clone of Charizard would have pleased more fans (then again, the kids would bitch that Ridley was a clone).
I recalled a Sakurai Interview about how Snake's moveset would be/work out.
"Snake uses a lot of realistic guns, but we don't want to theme him around that. Instead, he will be using a lot of explosives."
Ha, what do you know? Snake does use a ton of explosives! I hope that helps in anyway with the Fox/Falco/Wolf fiasco.
"Snake uses a lot of realistic guns, but we don't want to theme him around that. Instead, he will be using a lot of explosives."
Ha, what do you know? Snake does use a ton of explosives! I hope that helps in anyway with the Fox/Falco/Wolf fiasco.
That's funny. In all seriousness, I wouldn't be happy with him as a Charizard clone, but at least it would be better than having two Fox clones. Why they didn't Luigify the clones is beyond me....
Like many other people, my expectations got too high. There are still a lot of new characters I'm looking forward to trying (Dedede, Metaknight, Lucario, Ike, Wolf, Snake, Lucas, Pokemon Trainer), but I kept on hoping for more unrealistic things like Geno, a female rep from Fire Emblem (probably Lyn or Mikaya), Hector, Crono, and non-crap Mewtwo. In retrospect, there are a whole lot of interesting new stages being added (New Pork City looks awesome, stage builder is something I've always wanted to try too), and of course there are a lot of other new features as well.
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