(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Sonikku A said:
:psysly:
Obviously in lore wise it's "I need help. That's it"

Outside inspiration wise though, nothing says they can or can't be about Nuclear war though
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Seeing all the theories and Divine Retribution's comment just put that funny little scene in my head of what would Regigigas think if presented with these theories.

One question about the theory: does it explain why exactly the Pokemon they used to represent the atomic bombing being based on golems. You know, the golem, as in the Jewish Mythical creature. If I'm understanding the theory correct, is suggest GF used a Jewish Mythical creature to reference an atrocity done to the Japanese people during WWII. :smogduck:

Well, it's a good thing during WWII Japan wasn't allies with a dictator who was committing genocide against the Jewish people which they knew about (though, to be fair, the Japanese did treat the Jews who had escaped to Japan better than in Europe even pushing back against most Nazi Germany's requests (still forced the Jews into a cramped ghetto)). :psysad:

Also, many of the scientists who developed the atomic bomb were Jewish. So that adds a new layer where the Pokemon representing the atomic bombings are based on the mythical creature of people whom had a hand in developing the atomic bomb. :psynervous:

So, to get to the point, I'm kind of against the Regi Trio are related to the atomic bomb theory because, due to them using the golem, it's kind of super insensitive on multiple levels. :psycry:
 
R_N said:
Shedinja has been in basically every frontier and tower and such, sometimes only in the "bad pokemon" set.

Also all of their sets are just maximally annoying. The gall to expect good pokemon going into a facility and then throw Sand Attack Lax Incense Shedinja at you
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It gets worse.

Did you know the Gen 3 Frontier had a fully HP-invested Shedinja?

Pikachu315111 said:
Also I actually used Empoleon as my "Ice" example when I made my joke "Favorite Pokemon of Each Type" cause I couldn't really think what other Pokemon I could see being Ice/part Ice.
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BEST. POST. EVER.
 
All valid points re Shedinja being a potential impassable wall if it's in a mandatory fight (actually, as someone into his challenge runs that could indeed be a major issue).

However, I wish it had been on at least one NPC's team, like a random Bug Catcher off the beaten path. Pokemon does, somewhat occasionally, do the Boss in Mook's Clothing trope (the example that comes to mind immediately is that duo outside Veilstone City on Route 215 - they're actually worse in DP than Platinum due to that rough Gyarados); RSE has a couple of beefy trainers like that girl with a Milotic on one route - though I've never personally found her a fearsome boss, I can see why people would. So I really don't think it would have been too much to include one.

At least Greta makes incredibly nasty use of one; the inability to switch in the Arena means that if you don't account for Shedinja you're absolutely guaranteed to lose. But bring a Tyranitar with Protect as your last mon and you're laughing. (Shedinja's also beautifully good fun to use against Tucker Gold, too - and Anabel's Gold team to a lesser extent.)
 
Pikachu315111 said:
I always thought the Misdreavus family should have become part Fairy, they're partially based on the Banshee which is some tellings is a fey.

Also I actually used Empoleon as my "Ice" example when I made my joke "Favorite Pokemon of Each Type" cause I couldn't really think what other Pokemon I could see being Ice/part Ice.
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That's a good, really good list.
But it's interesting you put Clefairy as your favorite Normal-type Pokémon, because I can't remember anyone saying, "why does this Pokémon not have the Normal-type?" except for Gogoat. Even covered in leaves, a domestic goat looks pretty normal to me.
Pikachu315111 said:
Now that letting your Pokemon walk aside with you is a thing, maybe they should consider letting you able to have a "Team Mascot", a Pokemon you don't use in battle but stands beside you while battling to help cheer on the team. That way you can have your favorite Pokemon with you, it's just not battling.
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A "cheers in the background" Pokémon? That's a potentially awesome customization feature! Pick your mascot Pokémon, dress them, give them a haircut, tell them how to cheer during battles?
I can see that in a new Let's Go-type game. Partially because both Plusle and Minun are known as the Cheering Pokémon.
 
Something funny I noticed: even though several of the Champions in the series officially* have no type specialty, every single one of them actually does favour one or more types. Discounting Lance (Dragon), Steven (Steel), Wallace (Water), and Iris (Dragon), there are five other Champions who use mixed rosters and yet still manage to double up. So which types do the others favour? (Note that I'm basing their teams off of the initial games they appeared in, since subsequent games like BW and USUM always throw in new additions to existing characters' rosters)

Blue - favours Flying or Psychic depending on his team composition in RB; in Yellow always favours Psychic
Cynthia - interestingly, favours Water and Ground equally in DP, but in Platinum genuinely has no type specialty at all - none of her six team members share a type
Alder - no stated specialty, but favours Bug-types in BW
Diantha - no stated specialty, but favours Rock and Dragon equally
Leon - no stated specialty, but favours Dragon or Fire equally depending on his team composition

It's not surprising that Blue favours Psychic given its dominance in Gen I (even if Exeggutor makes no use of it) but Flying was a surprise.

I find this interesting specifically because I've always considered Alder "a Bug-type Champion" even though nothing in the games suggests that he specifically has a preference for Bug-types over any other, but Bug suits him so well it's hard for me not to think of him in that way. So it's funny to see that going by my own logic Diantha is "a Rock and Dragon Champion" when she's always associated more with Fairy and Psychic.

Anyway all this proves is that Cynthia is canonically the best Champion, I rest my case.

Edit: not sure why I posted this in this thread since it doesn't annoy me. Oh, well.




*in the sense that the ones who do have a type specialty tend to blatantly announce it
 
R_N said:
I feel like "favor" is doing some heavy lifting here on some of these
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We can quibble semantics, I'm just making the observation that some of them double up on types.

R_N said:
Like, Blue. He has Pidgeot &/or Gyarados and he has Alakazam &/or Exeggutor. 2/6 is more than 1/6 but it's still so low you'd never think twice about it. If someone called him the Flying or Psychic champion I would escort them off the premises
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Blue can have Pidgeot, Gyarados, and Charizard.

Which is why I'm not attempting to argue that this makes Blue "a Flying-type champion". I'm saying that the criteria by which I consider Alder a Bug trainer doesn't really work when applied to everyone else.

My broader point is that in a game with 17 or 18 types to choose from it's wacky that not one variety Champion has a team in which none of their Pokemon types overlap. Whenever I've thought about what an effective in-game team might be for each game it's usually incredibly easy to come up with multiple squads that have 6-12 distinct types.
 
Hey you know I realized we skipped out on Trace this whole conversation... To his credit (because lord knows he just doesn't get it otherwise), he also avoids any overlap whatsoever. Considering both his predecessor and Kanto's limited resources, that's pretty impressive. I think he's helped by only swapping out the "starter" based on the game.

USUM Hau also avoids across all 3 of his team if we want to extend it to "lore-wise they're challenging YOU, but mechanically..."
 
green_typhlosion said:
Something funny I noticed: even though several of the Champions in the series officially* have no type specialty, every single one of them actually does favour one or more types. Discounting Lance (Dragon), Steven (Steel), Wallace (Water), and Iris (Dragon), there are five other Champions who use mixed rosters and yet still manage to double up. So which types do the others favour? (Note that I'm basing their teams off of the initial games they appeared in, since subsequent games like BW and USUM always throw in new additions to existing characters' rosters)

Blue - favours Flying or Psychic depending on his team composition in RB; in Yellow always favours Psychic
Cynthia - interestingly, favours Water and Ground equally in DP, but in Platinum genuinely has no type specialty at all - none of her six team members share a type
Alder - no stated specialty, but favours Bug-types in BW
Diantha - no stated specialty, but favours Rock and Dragon equally
Leon - no stated specialty, but favours Dragon or Fire equally depending on his team composition

It's not surprising that Blue favours Psychic given its dominance in Gen I (even if Exeggutor makes no use of it) but Flying was a surprise.

I find this interesting specifically because I've always considered Alder "a Bug-type Champion" even though nothing in the games suggests that he specifically has a preference for Bug-types over any other, but Bug suits him so well it's hard for me not to think of him in that way. So it's funny to see that going by my own logic Diantha is "a Rock and Dragon Champion" when she's always associated more with Fairy and Psychic.

Anyway all this proves is that Cynthia is canonically the best Champion, I rest my case.

Edit: not sure why I posted this in this thread since it doesn't annoy me. Oh, well.




*in the sense that the ones who do have a type specialty tend to blatantly announce it
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How did I completely forget Gen VII existed when I wrote this

So yeah, Kukui doesn't but Hau does, and oh yeah Trace exists too.
 
Red probably got Lapras in the remakes because it hails on Mt Silver for his battle and having an ice type to take advantage of not taking damage is probably a good thing to have

It also kind of makes the actual reference of his team (Box Starters + Snorlax who you're forced to fight at least one of + 1 gift) a little more intuitive imo

e: A shame they didn't try to keep that up a little with his appearence in Let's Go, where Arcanine ( i mean I GUESS it's version exclusive to Red but that feels coincidental) and Machamp replace the 2 starters. But I suppose they didn't want to pick a specific eevee or give the other 2 out & I doubt they'd give both fossils to him...could have used a Game Corner prize reference maybe?
 
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Coronis said:
Nah Lapras was definitely just anime pandering imo. I always preferred Espeon due to it being a gen 2 mon and Red having it in the manga.
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I really doubt they decided to "pander" with a Pokemon Ash last had a notable role in 1999, and last seen in general in 2002....


Though now that you mention it I bet putting in Lapras was also so his whole team was firmly Gen 1. Blue works the same way, in that regard.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
BEST. POST. EVER.
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My favorite post in that thread is CTNC's response to my post on the next page. :bloblul:

green_typhlosion said:
RSE has a couple of beefy trainers like that girl with a Milotic on one route
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Jennifer... :blobglare:

KalosianPorygon said:
But it's interesting you put Clefairy as your favorite Normal-type Pokémon, because I can't remember anyone saying, "why does this Pokémon not have the Normal-type?
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I knew I wanted to make the Clefable joke (though thinking about it, it would have been more funny with Clefairy since that's what Whitney has and modelled her Gym after) so never really gave it thought what Pokemon I'd joke should have the Normal-type. Guess the joke would more be a play on words: ""What if your favorite normal Pokemon"? Hmm, that's quite hard (without picking an actual Normal-type).

green_typhlosion said:
My broader point is that in a game with 17 or 18 types to choose from it's wacky that not one variety Champion has a team in which none of their Pokemon types overlap. Whenever I've thought about what an effective in-game team might be for each game it's usually incredibly easy to come up with multiple squads that have 6-12 distinct types.
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Is it though? Sure, you can make a team with Types don't overlap easily, but do that without also repeating a Pokemon previously used by another notable trainer (especially the Pokemon that's considered a trainer's ace). Now there have been exceptions obviously, but generally the Champion's team tries to be unique and doing this easily could end up with the Champion having at least some Type overlap. However, as long as no Pokemon share the same exact Typing, I can still see their team not leaning on a Type.

Ironmage said:
An interesting note on champion type specializations: In every battle against Steven, he has at least as many Rock types as Steel types. He even has 4 rock and 3 steel (aggron is both) in B2W2.
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Well his full name is Steven Stone so...

R_N said:
Hey you know I realized we skipped out on Trace this whole conversation... To his credit (because lord knows he just doesn't get it otherwise), he also avoids any overlap whatsoever. Considering both his predecessor and Kanto's limited resources, that's pretty impressive.
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Trace's team is an interesting case as it does have echoes of Blue's. While the only Pokemon he "copies" is Pidgeot which he made into his Mega, after that he has a Grass, Fire, Water, Ground, and extra Type which is always Electric (whereas Blue would either use a Psychic or Fighting). Of course Blue's team in Let's Go is a combination of his 3 members of his normal team, Charizard, Tauros (which could be a reference to the dummied out Professor Oak battle), and Aerodactyl (which he started using in BW2 as both an upgrade to his Pidgeot & Rhyhorn/Rhyperior which also lets him use both his Alakazam and Machamp on the same team).

Red's Team:
Red's Team in both GSC & HGSS, particularly in the "extra" Pokemon, are references to both an in-game gift Pokemon and extended media. You could take his Espeon being the Gift Eevee as well as a reference to the manga; you can take his Lapras being the Gift Lapras as well as a reference to the anime. As for why they did the switch, well R_N does make a good point Lapras is better in Hail so that's three points in its favor.

It's a shame though his Gen VII's Battle Tree team candidates don't include Espeon.

As for his Let's Go team, it's a hodgepodge of him not having all the Starters and leftovers from Blue (Machamp and Arcanine). But hey, since he uses Venusaur that means Lapras is now the only Water-type on his team!
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Is it though? Sure, you can make a team with Types don't overlap easily, but do that without also repeating a Pokemon previously used by another notable trainer (especially the Pokemon that's considered a trainer's ace).
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In the bit you're responding to I'm talking about making a team for in-game use, so using NPC's aces is less of a concern. But challenge accepted! I won't even use starters.

Gen I
Flareon, Victreebel, Poliwrath, Golem, Jynx, Electrode
Cloyster, Ninetales, Parasect, Muk, Dodrio, Hypno
Vileplume, Mr Mime, Scyther, Omastar, Jolteon, Primeape

Gen II
Quagsire, Magcargo, Jumpluff, Ariados, Hitmontop, Sneasel
Lanturn, Tyranitar, Noctowl, Donphan, Scizor, Misdreavus
Heracross, Bellossom, Skarmory, Qwilfish, Girafarig, Ampharos

Gen III
Swellow, Glalie, Banette, Aggron, Breloom, Claydol
Flygon, Medicham, Armaldo, Roselia, Mightyena, Pelipper
Ninjask, Exploud, Whiscash, Sableye, Cradily, Swalot

None of these teams use a Gym Leader or Elite Four's signature Pokemon (save for Vileplume, which is inconsistently swapped with Tangela as Erika's ace) and all have 9-12 distinct types.


Pikachu315111 said:
Now there have been exceptions obviously, but generally the Champion's team tries to be unique
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Do they? Let's examine that...
  • Blue uses Sabrina and Giovanni's aces, and Blaine's if he has Arcanine
  • Lance shares Charizard with Red
  • Cynthia uses Maylene and Gardenia's aces
  • Alder has Vanilluxe in common with N
  • Iris uses Ghetsis's ace, and obviously shares Haxorus with Drayden
  • Diantha uses Grant and Korrina's aces

Relatedly, there's also a longstanding precedent for Elite Four members reusing Gym Leader's aces too:
  • Bruno uses Brock's ace
  • Karen uses Morty's ace
  • Drake uses Juan's ace
  • Flint uses Fantina's ace

Pikachu315111 said:
Well his full name is Steven Stone so...
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In Emerald, he also refers to himself as a rock maniac.
 
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green_typhlosion said:
Do they? Let's examine that...
  • Blue uses Sabrina and Giovanni's aces, and Blaine's if he has Arcanine
  • Lance shares Charizard with Red
  • Cynthia uses Maylene and Gardenia's aces
  • Alder has Vanilluxe in common with N
  • Iris uses Ghetsis's ace, and obviously shares Haxorus with Drayden
  • Diantha uses Grant and Korrina's aces

Relatedly, there's also a longstanding precedent for Elite Four members reusing Gym Leader's aces too:
  • Bruno uses Brock's ace
  • Karen uses Morty's ace
  • Drake uses Juan's ace
  • Flint uses Fantina's ace
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To be fair, as long as they aren’t striclty the same Pokémon as an ace with another important trainer, that’s a non-issue for the most part.

What should be noted are examples of two or more importants non-player trainers (Gym Leaders, Rivals, Elite Four, Evil-Team Admins and Leader, Champion, etc.) sharing the same species of Pokémon as ace, with Agheta, Morty and Alister using a Gengar as their ace, RSE Wally and Diantha using Gardevoir as their ace (ORAS Wally have a Gallade instead, to avoid Mega Evolution redundancy), and Bruno and Bea using Machamp as their ace.

One example due to unfortunate circumstance that is the atrocious Pokédex that is DP (not Platinum) is, if you picked Turtwig, Barry and Flint shares Infernape - Chimchar and Monferno beforehand as the game progress in Barry’s case - as their ace.

Do not under any circumstance get me started with how the admins in the Johto games + remake and Hoenn games + remake makes it so their ace are either just fully evolved form of what the Grunts majorly used anyways, or even shared with their leader’s Ace in case of Courtney, Tabitha and Maxie (Camerupt) and Matt, Shelly and Archie (Sharpedo). At least ORAS make a post-game plot point of Courtney (OR) or Matt (AS) stealing the respective Mega Stone from their leader for their own Camerupt / Sharpedo, making it a bit seamless.
 
Samtendo09 said:
To be fair, as long as they aren’t striclty the same Pokémon as an ace with another important trainer, that’s a non-issue for the most part.

What should be noted are examples of two or more importants non-player trainers (Gym Leaders, Rivals, Elite Four, Evil-Team Admins and Leader, Champion, etc.) sharing the same species of Pokémon as ace, with Agheta, Morty and Alister using a Gengar as their ace, RSE Wally and Diantha using Gardevoir as their ace (ORAS Wally have a Gallade instead, to avoid Mega Evolution redundancy), and Bruno and Bea using Machamp as their ace.
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Different games is less of an issue. In a game where Steven Stone does not appear there's little to no creative redundancy in another boss using Metagross. And for the Galar games specifically it's less important since Bea's ace is Gigantamax Machamp, not Machamp.

For instance, in FRLG several of the Elite Four use Johto Gym Leader's aces in rematches - Lorelai uses Piloswine, Bruno uses Steelix, and Lance uses Kingdra. But the Johto Gym Leaders aren't in FRLG so it stands out less (plus, my headcanon has always been that a top-level type specialist like Lorelai or Lance would own every Pokemon of their chosen type in their native region, even if we don't see them use them all).

Some species do get annoyingly overplayed, though. Gengar as you say is a tediously popular choice though that's mostly down to the lack of good Ghosts. It's especially egregious in Gen IV because Platinum makes Mismagius Fantina's ace in her initial match. Initially I thought that this may have been part of the rationale for HGSS not putting Misdreavus on Morty's team or making it his eventual ace - except that Platinum makes Gengar Fantina's ace in rematches!


Samtendo09 said:
One example due to unfortunate circumstance that is the atrocious Pokédex that is DP (not Platinum) is, if you picked Turtwig, Barry and Flint shares Infernape - Chimchar and Monferno beforehand as the game progress in Barry’s case - as their ace.

Do not under any circumstance get me started with how the admins in the Johto games + remake and Hoenn games + remake makes it so their ace are either just fully evolved form of what the Grunts majorly used anyways, or even shared with their leader’s Ace in case of Courtney, Tabitha and Maxie (Camerupt) and Matt, Shelly and Archie (Sharpedo). At least ORAS make a post-game plot point of Courtney (OR) or Matt (AS) stealing the respective Mega Stone from their leader for their own Camerupt / Sharpedo, making it a bit seamless.
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Yeah, this sucks. Barry also shares Roserade with Gardenia and Cynthia as well as Floatzel with Crasher Wake in that respect, though the latter is justified in Platinum (and the Adventures manga, hey look at that old chestnut cropping up again) due to him appointing himself Wake's apprentice.

I don't mind so much when, say, Gym Trainers and team grunts use unevolved versions of what their leader has. It makes sense that they'd want to emulate the person they're following, and that only the leader or admin would be skilled enough to evolve their Seadra into a Kingdra or their Golbat into a Crobat - it also creates a nice sense of anticipation to battle a few Seadra and then find yourself up against the real deal. (God, but Clair's Kingdra was an insurmountable wall back in the day.) But you're dead right that most of the evil teams would benefit from more diversity.

Team Magma is pretty stark; none of the grunts use Torkoal or Graveler IIRC (even though both species can literally be found in their hideout in Emerald) or use the array of Ground-types you might expect outside of Numel - I think there's literally one Magma Grunt who uses a Baltoy in Emerald, but that's it. Even Team Aqua could benefit from using Water-types not named Carvanha - Hoenn is literally full of them. Horsea, Staryu, Chinchou, Goldeen, Marill, Spheal, Magikarp, Clamperl.

Thankfully we've largely moved away from type-focused evil teams in recent generations; Team Plasma, Team Flare, and the Aether Foundation all use reasonably varied picks.
 
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You can definitely have both strong theming and roster diversity, but we usually only get one or the other. I generally like it when there's a strong and coherent theme beyond the obvious, even if it compromises the overall difficulty of a Gym or hideout raid or whatever, because it gives NPCs an identity. There's a kind of verisimilitude at play, where even if it doesn't make rational sense for members of an evil team or Gym to choose all their mons from a limited list of options, it feels right somehow. It's also a good game design choice because (in theory) it lets the devs up the power level of a boss battle based on the assumption that the player has a decent idea of what to expect and can plan accordingly.

Of course, you have to get a little creative with your theming to avoid having it get stale, especially for trainers or trainer classes that you encounter throughout the game. For me the worst offenders are the RSE Teams and the BW Gyms, which have such absurdly bland and predictable team rosters that they undermine what I think are otherwise great Pokemon games. On the other end of the spectrum, while I remember enjoying the roster diversity of the Aether Foundation when I played SMUSUM, I would not be able to tell you anything about the Pokemon used by any of them besides Faba and Lusamine.
 
Cobalt Empoleon said:
You can definitely have both strong theming and roster diversity, but we usually only get one or the other. I generally like it when there's a strong and coherent theme beyond the obvious, even if it compromises the overall difficulty of a Gym or hideout raid or whatever, because it gives NPCs an identity. There's a kind of verisimilitude at play, where even if it doesn't make rational sense for members of an evil team or Gym to choose all their mons from a limited list of options, it feels right somehow. It's also a good game design choice because (in theory) it lets the devs up the power level of a boss battle based on the assumption that the player has a decent idea of what to expect and can plan accordingly.

Of course, you have to get a little creative with your theming to avoid having it get stale, especially for trainers or trainer classes that you encounter throughout the game. For me the worst offenders are the RSE Teams and the BW Gyms, which have such absurdly bland and predictable team rosters that they undermine what I think are otherwise great Pokemon games. On the other end of the spectrum, while I remember enjoying the roster diversity of the Aether Foundation when I played SMUSUM, I would not be able to tell you anything about the Pokemon used by any of them besides Faba and Lusamine.
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That is certainly fair, and help the player to prepare for what is the “boss” of the Gym / Evil-Team, aka the Leader’s Ace. As long as it’s not way too repetitive to the point the player can end up unprepared against the leader’s other Pokémon, it will give them an antepiece on what would be coming up.

I certainly won’t excuse what was going on in RSE and BW in terms of minions’ teams. Now you told me about what is with Aether Foundation, though, I do think having a specific theme is definitely important. I can tell it may as well be time for any “evil” team or antagonistic figures to move on with type theming, because in the end, it just feels like another kind of type themed specialist but extended throughout the game.
 
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