SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

Rarycaris said:
I'd be surprised if they didn't go totally overboard in ensuring there's absolutely no possible way to cheat past the one time revival limit. I'll bet it can't be called by any other move, it'll have the "only Pawmi3 can use this move" clause, and it'll probably ignore Leppa Berries. The only plausible corner case I can see getting missed is using a Transforming ally to copy the move before using it, and that is too risky to be practical anyway (since it means using either Mew or a non-Imposter Ditto).

Or they could straight up hard code it to only work once per battle. Think No Retreat for partial precedent, or the various special once-per-battle mechanics.

At any rate, I'm mostly interested in its potential applications in Ubers, where there are likely to be one or two mons that are just obviously a cut above everything else going by recent precedent and the likelihood that there'll only be two 680BST mons on release.
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While I do expect them to put some sorta limit on reviving with the move, I think it'd be hilarious to have a random NPC show up with 6 of the pawmi evo whom all know the revive move



pecanbegone said:
It's been said that none of the starter hidden abilities are new, and I'm assuming by that that they aren't even "different name but same effect" abilities. It honestly just might be Prankster, period.
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I think my only issue with that is that Prankster isn't really all that broken imo. Granted we're going by Khu's standards and there's not much of a way to know what he deems broken, but when I hear "Godtier ability" i think of stuff like Magic Guard, Protean or Shadow Tag instead of Prankster

Fuecoco final evo having a berry related abil kinda sucks bc I cannot see a world where the rocks-weak knock-weak mon would want to run berries

Personally, for Quaxly final evo, I'm hoping Dancer. Copying Swords and Dragon Dances would both be pretty neat, and depending on how its adapted, Victory Dance with Lilligant would be pretty cool as well.
 
The competitive that people engage with most is VGC. In VGC, Incineroar is such an insanely overcentralizing and toxic mon that it's number 2 in usage after Zacian, the most fucked up thing to ever brace the format. Incineroar is nothing special in singles but in VGC it leverages its above average bulk, excellent support movepool, potent typing and Intimidate to dominate the meta. Whimsicott is another example where it's not much good in singles but in VGC it has an excellent support movepool with Prankster to make it an incredibly enabling mon for more potent offensive threats like Zacian. Sprigatito could end up being enabling like Whimsicott with Prankster while also being able to threaten decent damage with its flexible Grass/Dark STAB and (presumably) decent attacking stats so it isn't helpless on its own. Dark types also tend to have a wide support movepool with moves like Taunt and Parting Shot, and the Grass typing means it might get Powder moves. It'd be kind of like Incineroar too in that sense, if you think about it.


I apologize if I'm a bit rambly, it's been a long day
 
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Something that's surprisingly not gotten talked about that much is that it would appear as if sleep has been replaced by drowsy. The clip shown in the video shows an "asleep" Drifblim using Shadow Ball. Drowsy, introduced in Legends: Arceus, functions similarly to paralysis, but instead of reducing speed it reduces both defenses. Needless to say this has huge implications for the metagame as a whole, as there is no longer any need for sleep clause and Pokemon such as Breloom will be played significantly differently (if it gets played at all). Furthermore, if drowsy is in the game then it wouldn't be much of a leap to assume frostbite (burn but for special attack) replaced freeze.

What Pokemon do you all think benefit from/are hurt by these changes the most? I personally think we'll see moves like Hypnosis used on offensive Pokemon such as Gengar to handicap their checks and counters on the switch.


edit: disregard, I should read more of the other threads before I post lol
 
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I feel like Protean is the only ability of the ones mentioned that's strong *enough* to make a Grass type feel like an autoinclude. Intimidate has better options, Magic Guard and Prankster have users with better typing and stats, and something like Regenerator

If we're talking an existing ability ability so strong that it catapults Sprigatito to the top tier despite mediocre stats and typing, the only options IMO are Protean, Grassy terrain (again), Intrepid Sword, Drought, Huge Power and Wonder Guard.
 
vin sneasel said:
Something that's surprisingly not gotten talked about that much is that it would appear as if sleep has been replaced by drowsy. The clip shown in the video shows an "asleep" Drifblim using Shadow Ball. Drowsy, introduced in Legends: Arceus, functions similarly to paralysis, but instead of reducing speed it reduces both defenses. Needless to say this has huge implications for the metagame as a whole, as there is no longer any need for sleep clause and Pokemon such as Breloom will be played significantly differently (if it gets played at all). Furthermore, if drowsy is in the game then it wouldn't be much of a leap to assume frostbite (burn but for special attack) replaced freeze.

What Pokemon do you all think benefit from/are hurt by these changes the most? I personally think we'll see moves like Hypnosis used on offensive Pokemon such as Gengar to handicap their checks and counters on the switch.
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It depends how this affects the accuracy of moves that inflict drowsy, and if it wears off or not. (If they've borrowed some changes from PLA, an impactful possibility is that they've kept the part where all statuses wear off after a few turns.) If Hypnosis becomes a lot more accurate, I can definitely see it getting used to nuke defence by almost any offensive mon that learns it; this would likely be huge for Lunala, Xurkitree and Blacephalon aswell. If it's still massively inaccurate like in PLA, it'll be too gimmicky IMO.
 
vin sneasel said:
Something that's surprisingly not gotten talked about that much is that it would appear as if sleep has been replaced by drowsy. The clip shown in the video shows an "asleep" Drifblim using Shadow Ball. Drowsy, introduced in Legends: Arceus, functions similarly to paralysis, but instead of reducing speed it reduces both defenses. Needless to say this has huge implications for the metagame as a whole, as there is no longer any need for sleep clause and Pokemon such as Breloom will be played significantly differently (if it gets played at all). Furthermore, if drowsy is in the game then it wouldn't be much of a leap to assume frostbite (burn but for special attack) replaced freeze.

What Pokemon do you all think benefit from/are hurt by these changes the most? I personally think we'll see moves like Hypnosis used on offensive Pokemon such as Gengar to handicap their checks and counters on the switch.
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It got discussed in the other thread. It seems more likely that the 'mons in question got put to sleep after getting their moves off (and in the case of Farigiraf woke up and used Psybeam) since the statuses of your team mates doesn't seem to update immediately. (Drifblim, for instance, appeared to be put to sleep mid-animation)

Edit: also it shows Farigiraf as "Asleep" rather than "Drowsy" in its PoV when showing off the different cheers
 
vin sneasel said:
Something that's surprisingly not gotten talked about that much is that it would appear as if sleep has been replaced by drowsy. The clip shown in the video shows an "asleep" Drifblim using Shadow Ball. Drowsy, introduced in Legends: Arceus, functions similarly to paralysis, but instead of reducing speed it reduces both defenses. Needless to say this has huge implications for the metagame as a whole, as there is no longer any need for sleep clause and Pokemon such as Breloom will be played significantly differently (if it gets played at all). Furthermore, if drowsy is in the game then it wouldn't be much of a leap to assume frostbite (burn but for special attack) replaced freeze.

What Pokemon do you all think benefit from/are hurt by these changes the most? I personally think we'll see moves like Hypnosis used on offensive Pokemon such as Gengar to handicap their checks and counters on the switch.
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I think doipy hooves had a full post in the other thread that shows that no its probably not drowsy at all
 
vin sneasel said:
Something that's surprisingly not gotten talked about that much is that it would appear as if sleep has been replaced by drowsy. The clip shown in the video shows an "asleep" Drifblim using Shadow Ball. Drowsy, introduced in Legends: Arceus, functions similarly to paralysis, but instead of reducing speed it reduces both defenses. Needless to say this has huge implications for the metagame as a whole, as there is no longer any need for sleep clause and Pokemon such as Breloom will be played significantly differently (if it gets played at all). Furthermore, if drowsy is in the game then it wouldn't be much of a leap to assume frostbite (burn but for special attack) replaced freeze.

What Pokemon do you all think benefit from/are hurt by these changes the most? I personally think we'll see moves like Hypnosis used on offensive Pokemon such as Gengar to handicap their checks and counters on the switch.
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Personally I think sleep is still traditional sleep in most ways explained in the main thread here and here.

Most notably is that the sleep status is still named asleep and it wouldn't make much sense for you to be able to attack while unconscious, unlike drowsy where you're still awake. The point of Arceus calling the new status drowsy is clearly to distance itself from sleep in flavour, so I don't see them just porting its mechanics back into old sleep to confuse people. As mentioned above as well, Rest maintains the old description rather than the Arceus description.
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The falling asleep message is still the same as well, and we've seen sleep turns being burned.
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The interaction in the video can be explained by the ally HP/status simply being slower to update than the move animations. This is because the raid battles have to show the allies using moves against the raid boss immediately to reflect damage, but they don't show the raid boss attacking allies outside their POV. It's reasonable to not update the ally status only after a move is used because the HP wouldn't change before the turn goes off. I mainly say this because the status on Farigiraf disappears immediately after the move which leads me to believe it woke up to use the move.
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Also the Drifblim wasn't asleep before it used the move, the sleep icon shows up afterwards. Nowhere does a mon use a move with the sleep icon remaining before and after.
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Also kaka apparently mentioned that freeze is back anyway. THun is a user that he often replied to in Japanese.
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Shame frostbite is gone; while Drowsy is something clearly made more with PLA in mind, Frostbite while an obvious replacement for Freeze in PLA's battling ethos, also just like....works, lol. Like you could port that as is and not lose much of anything, and i think generally people would be fine with losing the "Freeze" status entirely for it.
Maybe next gen
 
fratelli bc said:
By the way... Does the "magnemite pompoms" seen on Iono's hair have something to do with paradox magneton?
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We've already seen Magnemites in trailers and I can't imagine that Paradox 'mons are commonplace in Paldea before the 3rd legend starts fucking around and finding out, so I'm inclined to think that no, Iono's accessory doesn't relate unfortunately

A bit of a tangent, but if we get Gym Leader rematches (never a guarantee on anything with this series...), I'd love if they got access to Paradox 'mons of their own.
 
Just A Seaking said:
We've already seen Magnemites in trailers and I can't imagine that Paradox 'mons are commonplace in Paldea before the 3rd legend starts fucking around and finding out, so I'm inclined to think that no, Iono's accessory doesn't relate unfortunately

A bit of a tangent, but if we get Gym Leader rematches (never a guarantee on anything with this series...), I'd love if they got access to Paradox 'mons of their own.
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One of khu or kaka says we do fight them all again, at least.
 
Whilst it is possible that Sprigatito gets Protean, remember that Khu said 'it's really powerful although the type resistances are garbage.' Protean would be an ability that circuments a bad typing, not one that makes a Pokemon good but leaves it limited by a poor typing. This sounds to me like it's some kind of bulky attacker with an ability that gives it some kind of extra defensive value. Something like Magic Guard (since it's a magician in the final evolution apparently?) or an ability with a defensive property like Multiscale or Marvel Scale is what I imagined it might have. Or maybe they are going further on the 'nerf Intimidate' train and it's getting Competitive with great stats? There's also rumours of a Protean nerf, and if that's the case I doubt a Pokemon with Protean would be regarded 'the Gen 9 OP Pokemon.'
 
fratelli bc said:
By the way... Does the "magnemite pompoms" seen on Iono's hair have something to do with paradox magneton?
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We don't know. Leakers haven't said much about it. It hasn't even been directly confirmed by the leakers to be in the Magnemite line. Khu's hint was just 'mag', and the strongest hint towards it being Magneton is some previous texts saying "what if magneton got a form." So, likely Magneton but could be room for a curveball. Otherwise the only thing we know about it is that Khu thinks it's the dumbest paradox.
 
Upon seeing further discussion, I'm convinced that Sprigatito's HA is Prankster. It's a Grass/Dark magician (likely of the more realistic variety that uses sleight of hand tricks and not supernatural powers) and the actual Magician ability is kinda doggy doodoo. I've said this before but it bears repeating, Prankster is an extremely good ability in VGC when you combine it with the right support movepool, which a Grass/Dark type magician-themed mon should have. It should have access to Taunt, Switcheroo, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Helping Hand and maybe even Fake Out and Parting Shot (Prankster PS would be powerful even in singles on a frail offensive mon, letting it keep up offensive pressure after a KO against revenge killers, though it would still get faded by Weavile), and there's a chance that it has a strong signature move that either boosts its offensive or support prowess. None of the other proposed abilities really make sense compared to Prankster, IMO.

It's also important to consider how good an ability would be on a specific Pokemon. For instance, it's true that Magic Guard is an excellent ability as we see with Clefable, but Clefable is a fairly bulky mon with an excellent type that synergizes very well MG to be really difficult to take down. Grass/Dark is a pretty poor defensive typing and I simply don't see how a feline magician would have the defensive stats to make MG work.
 
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PLA getting rid of Sleep and Freeze, yet having a reliable way of not letting your opponent do anything in Ice Shard Weavile, will never not amuse me. God what an annoying battle system, of course they built the gameplay loop into not battling being the better choice.

Freeze is quite redundant with sleep being all around superior, and frostbite was a nice replacement. Drowsy being defense-reducing paralysis is something I don't have much of an opinion about.

I just hope I don't have to rely on PLA to evolve Stantlers or Ursarings...
 
As much as Freeze isn't great, I can't help but feel that if you're going to completely redo the status for the Ice type, you could do something better than Frostbite. Reducing SpA feels like it's both uninspired (the Ice-associated status is just the mirror of the Fire-associated one) and another thing to add to the pile of "trying to make Ice be defensive."

I'd feel better if the stat drops from Frostbite and Drowsy were swapped. The cold makes the target more brittle so they take higher damage (while maintaining an offensive bent to fit with Ice's matchups), while being drowsy reduces the output of mental attacks.
 
Ironmage said:
another thing to add to the pile of "trying to make Ice be defensive."
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I would actually say it makes Ice types offensively better, at least Special Attacking ones. But I do agree that it would be less unique (even though Freeze is already basically Sleep but worse).
I also, as much as I want it, think that it would be more harmful to the Meta to have a special version of Burn with its own Will o Wisp. That would make it way to easy for a team to be shutdown and Special Attackers already have to deal with having their common attacks be weaker than Physical ones.
 
So what are the chances Paradox Jigglypuff evolves into Paradox Wigglytuff? I'm assuming this is essentially like Gigantamax Pikachu or Eevee in that they cannot evolve.

Will Paradox types be breedable or just catchable? Sounds like catchable only. Which makes me wonder if regular versions will be available that can be bred so we can breed a regular Foongus to get a regular Amoonguss. Or will the regular versions of these Paradox Pokemon be unavailable?
 
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