Resource Crown Tundra SS Ubers Viability Rankings

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Ubers Leader
Another VR slate happened, one of the last for SS as a current generation, thanks everyone for your nominations. Sheet is here, as always if you have questions about the changes they can go here or the SQSA thread and if you see any mistakes on the sheet / here lmk.

Rises:
:zekrom: A- (1) --> A (2)

:weavile: B+ --> A- (2)

:urshifu: B --> B+

:aerodactyl: B- --> B
:zamazenta-crowned: B- --> B
:zarude: B- --> B

:palkia: C --> C+

:kyurem-black: D --> C-
:obstagoon: UR --> C-
:rotom-wash: UR --> C-
:zamazenta: D --> C-

Drops:
:calyrex-shadow: S (4) --> S- (1)
:Kyogre: S- (1) --> S- (2)
:groudon: S- (2) --> S- (3)

:darmanitan-galar: A (2) --> A- (1)
:lunala: A (4) --> A- (3)

:rayquaza: A- (2) --> B+

:blissey: B+ --> B

:ditto: B --> B-
:slurpuff: B --> B-

:calyrex-ice: B- --> C+
:cloyster: B- --> C+
:giratina: B- --> C+

:dialga: C+ --> C
:excadrill: C+ --> C
:grimmsnarl: C+ --> C
:pheromosa: C+ --> C

:regieleki: C --> C-
:tapu-fini: C --> C-

:reshiram: C- --> D

:chansey: C --> UR
:froslass: C --> UR
:gastrodon: C --> UR
:hydreigon: C --> UR

:galvantula: C- --> UR
:mew: C- --> UR
 
Another VR slate happened, one of the last for SS as a current generation, thanks everyone for your nominations. Sheet is here, as always if you have questions about the changes they can go here or the SQSA thread and if you see any mistakes on the sheet / here lmk.

Rises:
:zekrom: A- (1) --> A (2)

:weavile: B+ --> A- (2)

:urshifu: B --> B+

:aerodactyl: B- --> B
:zamazenta-crowned: B- --> B
:zarude: B- --> B

:palkia: C --> C+

:kyurem-black: D --> C-
:obstagoon: UR --> C-
:rotom-wash: UR --> C-
:zamazenta: D --> C-

Drops:
:calyrex-shadow: S (4) --> S- (1)
:Kyogre: S- (1) --> S- (2)
:groudon: S- (2) --> S- (3)

:darmanitan-galar: A (2) --> A- (1)
:lunala: A (4) --> A- (3)

:rayquaza: A- (2) --> B+

:blissey: B+ --> B

:ditto: B --> B-
:slurpuff: B --> B-

:calyrex-ice: B- --> C+
:cloyster: B- --> C+
:giratina: B- --> C+

:dialga: C+ --> C
:excadrill: C+ --> C
:grimmsnarl: C+ --> C
:pheromosa: C+ --> C

:regieleki: C --> C-
:tapu-fini: C --> C-

:reshiram: C- --> D

:chansey: C --> UR
:froslass: C --> UR
:gastrodon: C --> UR
:hydreigon: C --> UR

:galvantula: C- --> UR
:mew: C- --> UR
I'm curious why is rotom wash ranked now and why are all the commons lead minus Aerodactyl unranked or dropped
 
I'm curious why is rotom wash ranked now
Not exactly an Ubers expert (though I did play the Tier seriously during like 1 month and a half this year), but pretty sure these calcs have something to do:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 237-279 (77.9 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 114-134 (37.5 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery < U-Turn doesn,t 2HKO without Rocks, every other move is well resisted.
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 205-243 (67.4 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Other things is should switch into: Non Knock Off, Non Dark Pulse Yveltal, Ho-oh, Non Power Whip Ferro, Lando-T, non Band Dracovish outside of Rain, Band Rayquaza, Heatran and Calyrex Ice.

Hopefully this helps, Ubers is a nice Tier with lots of cool options for Teambuilding. Could be better without Ghost Rider, but rest of the community doesn,t look to think the same.
 
Why did this rise? I thought it was considered a shitmon


Also what caused this slight drop?

for calyrex shadow rider I think it's because people are starting to realize that calyrex shadow-rider isn't as good as once thought due to the fact it struggles to break through specially bulky pokemon like blissey and yveltal due to the fact that sub sets are rising in usage thus causing calyrex s to find it harder to hit these threats, for the wolf I don't really know a new yveltal counter?
 
for calyrex shadow rider I think it's because people are starting to realize that calyrex shadow-rider isn't as good as once thought due to the fact it struggles to break through specially bulky pokemon like blissey and yveltal due to the fact that sub sets are rising in usage thus causing calyrex s to find it harder to hit these threats, for the wolf I don't really know a new yveltal counter?
Ah that makes sense, also zama c is the yveltal counter so idk about the yveltal counter
 

Fusion Flare

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Zama-C has a lot of things going for it. It sits on yveltal all day, can knock down unboosted xerneas in a pinch, and it also walks all over rising star weavile, which is another benefit it has. not instantly folding to calyrex-s as a trick absorber is also worth mentioning.
 
Very Curious as to what caused Zama-H to rise.
I understand Zama-C and Kyu-B. But would Zama-H not just be totally outclassed by Zama-C? (outside of the incredibly specific interaction of outspeeding Zama-C.)
 

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Very Curious as to what caused Zama-H to rise.
Zama-H, at least to the best of my (limited) knowledge, is either a Banded wallbreaker or a Howl setup sweeper. Dauntless Shield makes it quite bulky on the physically defensive side, allowing it to break past a few things. Howl sets also utilize Dauntless Shield to ease Zama's setup and give it more opportunities. Unfortunately, Zamazenta-Hero is stopped if it doesn't have the correct coverage move with Howl and can be a sitting duck against Calyrex with its Band set.
 
Zama-H, at least to the best of my (limited) knowledge, is either a Banded wallbreaker or a Howl setup sweeper. Dauntless Shield makes it quite bulky on the physically defensive side, allowing it to break past a few things. Howl sets also utilize Dauntless Shield to ease Zama's setup and give it more opportunities. Unfortunately, Zamazenta-Hero is stopped if it doesn't have the correct coverage move with Howl and can be a sitting duck against Calyrex with its Band set.
Zama-H: neutral

Zama-H isn’t strong and it’s easily can be knocked by yvel because you cant just hard into it. It requires u-turn pokemon and the competition its faces with marshadow a pokemon with better breaking capability with ghost+fighting stab w/technician+priority that makes Zama-H not useful in higher play. Zama-H ranks is fine

Zama-C: Drop

zama-c tho is another thing. I have been spamming it on the ladder with a stall build. It has great mach up against aero hyper offense that’s been being spammed. Being able to check yvel+weavile is great. Some down sides Zama-c faces that it can be overwhelmed and not doing much back against Balance (anything with eternatus) it needs to be paired with a wall breaker like clay-rex or band marshadow to over come eternatus and other walls that’ll wall Zama-c. Zama-c faces competition as the steel type on the team with dusk-mane. Having low pp on both stabs is also bad for a defensive pokemon. Zama-c current rank is maybe over rated but that’s my hot take.

Aero: rise

A pokemon I think that deserves another rank up is Aero. It seems at the moment it’s the best lead being able to taunt pokemon from using hazards/status moves,and having an out when hazards are up with defog is useful. lowering offensive pokemon speed with rock tomb helps a lot for members on your team to revenge or use a boost move on the switch is great. B+ Imo
 
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forgive my ignorant QwQ..BUT, why is Mewtwo so high in B? I say, as a special attacker it is better to use calyrex shadow, as well as a screen user, even the latter has aromatherapy and better speed, as someone who has good coverage this Lunala incidentally has almost the same coverage, with flip flops (thick boots) it can ignore trap rocks and stuff and control various attackers like zekrom, something mewtwo can't, what is THE reason(s) why it is in B?
 
forgive my ignorant QwQ..BUT, why is Mewtwo so high in B? I say, as a special attacker it is better to use calyrex shadow, as well as a screen user, even the latter has aromatherapy and better speed, as someone who has good coverage this Lunala incidentally has almost the same coverage, with flip flops (thick boots) it can ignore trap rocks and stuff and control various attackers like zekrom, something mewtwo can't, what is THE reason(s) why it is in B?

The Main Reason Mewtwo is so high is because even if it's facing actual competition this gen
It's still a Mewtwo in all its uncounterable glory (now with the smooth taste of nasty plot!)
There's also the fact it can function as a very powerful Partner for Calyrex, and Xerneas, luring and Blasting Yveltal wide open with Ice Beam, and Dusk Mane Open with Fire Blast respectively. Not to mention Mewtwo has and always will be a formidible wallbreaker all on its own, as it has extremely limited answers due to its absolutely stellar coverage, so while it's not as powerful as it once was, Mewtwo is still very much a dangerous Pokemon teams need to have a general plan against.
 
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I have many reasons to believe that Genesect's and Reshiram's viability in the Gen 8 SS Ubers tier are falsely represented in the viability rankings. I have decided to write them down so here they are:

Genesect

Firstly the scarf set. Choice scarf Genesect is incredible for it's 99 speed tier outspeeding most other scarfers a lot of sweepers at +1 speed and basically everything else. It can also easily be slapped onto any team given its incredible traits and incredible utility. In a pinch it can take at least 1 attack from most pokemon in the tier, Dynamax Cannon from Eternatus, Astral Barrage from Calyrex-Shadow etc. Most commonly you are going to be switching in on defensive Xerneas' Moonblast, NDM or just being lead off.
One of its best traits is being a perfect lead, because whatever your opponent leads off with you are guaranteed initiative and good damage using U-turn (unless their lead is Calyrex). You are going to want to pair it with a strong wallbreaker such as Groudon or Zekrom and other strong attackers like Weavile (who is an especially good partner) to take full advantage. The amount of pokemon it checks and how well it performs in the endgame are its best qualities. It can check so many pokemon that it will be shorter if I just list the pokemon it doesn't have a good match up against and those would be: Eternatus with over 60% Hp, Calyrex-Shadow (only the scarf variant), Ho-oh and Dialga. Those are the only factors stopping Genesect from U-turning over everything forever.
It should be partnered with a pokemon that can switch in decently into Eternatus like NDM and Ho-oh like Kyogre, of course it should also be partnered with a pokemon that can abuse them switching in like a Groudon. Since every team should have a switch in to those two Genesect is easy to fit on and giving something as dangerous as a Groudon free turn can allow for an easy advantage since the only other way you're getting something like Groudon in on Ho-oh is on a double switch or Yveltal's U-turn which is often hard to slot in given how many other incredible utility moves it has access to like Sucker Punch, Taunt or Defog which are all important for it's function. And giving yourself an easy way to lure those pokemon in for an ever greater advantage or simply forcing damage on something like Yveltal or NDM is a very efficient way to quickly make progress.
I have been saying how easy it is to slap on a team and that is because it has incredible utility beside its incredible U-turns.
Firstly, it has a stab Iron Head that can help with whittling down Xerneas and for a strong STAB that can hit a lot of pokemon for neutral damage.
Secondly, how easy it is to pick up the right boost with download. Everything that you're U-turning on is giving you an attack raise and everything you're hitting with Ice Beam is giving you a sp.atk raise. The only exceptions are Xerneas who is being hit with Iron Head anyways, offensive Eternatus with 4 sp.def and Garm with 4 sp.def. Thirdly, priority in Extreme Speed.
The third point is pretty self explanatory, for revenge killing purposes when your speed isn't enough such as when facing a boosted Xerneas or Black Glasses Yveltal on low health or when facing Trick Room teams. Against those you can get in when Hatterene's sash is broken or is simply on low health to get an attack boost, and then hit the pokemon coming in with a boosted Extreme Speed. For these reasons it's a good idea to pair scarf Genesect with other priority such as Sucker Punch Yveltal and especially Shadow Sneak Marshadow to be able to revenge kill even with just priority attacks when Extreme Speed isn't enough or more commonly when the other priority isn't enough.
Lastly, its dominance in the endgame. When it's checks are weakened or already knocked out Genesect really thrives becuase it's great in insuring wins, there won't be a specs or sash Calyrex-Shadow aiming to snowball trough your weakened team (U-turn twice), there won't be a Marshadow about to clean up (Iron Head), there won't be Zekrom or Rayquaza about to Dragon Dance and sweep you (Ice Beam), Xerneas about to boost and sweep (Iron Head if unboosted/Extreme Speed if boosted) etc. All of these late game threats are dominated by Genesect and it has a tool to deal with ALL of them. That's why it's scarf set is so incredible.

Now the choice band set. Choice band plays a lot differently then choice scarf since it trades away it's late game usefulness for and insane power boost. Its U-turns are now jacked up to insane levels of power which are 2hkoing almost everything that would give it an attack boost except of course Eternatus and Ho-oh. Speaking of those two, its Extreme Speed is now its new best attack since it is 2hkoing both of them as well as everything that hasn't got a heavy physical defense investment or resists the attack. Now everything that falls to around half health is in danger of being picked off by Espeed and that is most likely the result of its previous attacks. Adamant nature with Blaze Kick over Ice Beam is an incredible new option since it easily 2hkos NDM which could normally try to heal off its U-turns which were already quite threatening and of course ohkoing Ferrothorn. As such it is more demanding and harder to fit on teams but it's an incredible offensive partner for almost anything that can capitalize on weakening NDM and luring Ho-oh and Eternatus like scarf mix Zekrom with Volt Switch who is especially good because they can create a deadly Volt-Turn combo.

Simply, what really makes Genesect so amazing and consistent is because every team can heavily capitalize from what it brings to a team which would be a back up Xerneas check, strong revenge killer, great neutral lead, momentum and initiative. All it takes for a team to make the most use of it is a bit more offensive play.

I have no idea what you guys are doing by placing Genesect in the D tier.


Reshiram

Reshiram is an incredible wallbreaker because of the ease with which it claims kills once the sun is set up. Ohkoing all of Yveltal, Eternatus, NDM, Xerneas, Marshadow, Calyrex-Shadow, Groudon etc. (I'm not gonna list out the entier tier just take a look yourself). The only pokemon it can't ohko would be a much shorter list to compose. Those would be Kyogre (2hkod by Draco), Blissey (Body Press 2hkos), Tyranitar (Body Press almost ohkos) and Ho-oh (rock coverage with comes close to ohkoing). As you can see the only pokemon that don't die in a single hit are 2hkod anyways. A lot of people love saying "Rampardos Theorem" or other such bs, but that doesn't at all translate to real battles. They obviously didn't give Reshiram a proper try because once it hit's the field the opponent is at the least taking a Draco with Kyogre (And only the defenisve variants check it) and most likely it is taking at least one ko, so the trouble of getting onto the field is well worth it.
As for its teammates, a Groudon is necessary (preferably a bulkier support variant with Thunder Wave) but not with Stealth Rock. DON'T USE ROCKS WITH RESHIRAM!!! Don't waste time on hazards when you should be clicking twave or claiming your ko with Reshiram. What is the point of trading rocks if your Reshiram is taking 25% when coming in and everything on the opponent's team has boots or resists rocks anyway? Effort in preventing your opponent's hazards goes a whole lot longer way than trying to set yours up. The only scenario where hazards are acceptable on a team that Reshiram is on is if you're using a HDB variant. As for different sets, the best would be life orb to not only strengthen its Blue Flares and Dracos but also Body Presses and Rock Slides (I use it over SE because I don't want to miss), although all of HDB, specs and scarf are also viable. It's just that the life orb set does the role of wallbreaking most effectively and consistently. A water resistant pokemon that can help pivot around Kyogre is also of great use like scarf Palkia or scarf Zekrom.

I spent less effort in explaining how Reshiram works because it is more simple, get up sun, get in Reshiram, claim your kill. I think Reshiram should be partnered up with specially defensive Groudon variants to lure opposing grounds that Reshiram demolishes, spread paralysis to transform something like Yveltal or Eternatus from a tool to threaten Reshiram out into a free ko for it as well as being able to switch into Eternatus, take a hit from Kyogre as well as most other pokemon and Thunder Wave them back. If you want to use offensive Groudon and a strong special attacking partner that can threaten opposing grounds I would suggest AV Kyurem-W for it's ability to switch into Kyogre enough times and allow Groudon to claim kills easily. In that scenario I am again suggesting not to use Stealth Rock on the team.


Because of these reasons I think that Genesect and Reshiram posses a place in the metagame. As you can presume if it were up to me Genesect would be S- and Reshiram would be A-, but I will be realistic so I am suggesting A- for Genesect and C+ for Reshiram.
 
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Reshiram has no solid counter for all this possible sets. I agree that D tier is great mistake for it even accounting the fact that pokémon like Ho-oh and Zekrom are more solids as a breakers. Life orb is best item but is difficult to fit all the moves that want to run (Blue Flare, Draco, Roost, Stone edge, something 100% accurate...etc.)
Even Dragon dance sets with LO + roost (or HDB + Stone Edge) can do things if the oponent has a Blissey or Ho-oh as a Reshiram switch in. Dragon dance sets can be mixed specially based with Draco, Blue Flare and flare blitz/stone edge although this variant just dies to Life orb recoil or isn't strong if runing boots.

No real thoughs about Genesect, I found pretty mediocre when I tried this thing but isn't D tier in my opinion. But I don't think that is a splashable mon in this metagame.
 
I have many reasons to believe that Genesect's and Reshiram's viability in the Gen 8 SS Ubers tier are falsely represented in the viability rankings. I have decided to write them down so here they are:

Genesect

Firstly the scarf set. Choice scarf Genesect is incredible for it's 99 speed tier outspeeding most other scarfers a lot of sweepers at +1 speed and basically everything else. It can also easily be slapped onto any team given its incredible traits and incredible utility. In a pinch it can take at least 1 attack from most pokemon in the tier, Dynamax Cannon from Eternatus, Astral Barrage from Calyrex-Shadow etc. Most commonly you are going to be switching in on defensive Xerneas' Moonblast, NDM or just being lead off.
One of its best traits is being a perfect lead, because whatever your opponent leads off with you are guaranteed initiative and good damage using U-turn (unless their lead is Calyrex). You are going to want to pair it with a strong wallbreaker such as Groudon or Zekrom and other strong attackers like Weavile (who is an especially good partner) to take full advantage. The amount of pokemon it checks and how well it performs in the endgame are its best qualities. It can check so many pokemon that it will be shorter if I just list the pokemon it doesn't have a good match up against and those would be: Eternatus with over 60% Hp, Calyrex-Shadow (only the scarf variant), Ho-oh and Dialga. Those are the only factors stopping Genesect from U-turning over everything forever.
It should be partnered with a pokemon that can switch in decently into Eternatus like NDM and Ho-oh like Kyogre, of course it should also be partnered with a pokemon that can abuse them switching in like a Groudon. Since every team should have a switch in to those two Genesect is easy to fit on and giving something as dangerous as a Groudon free turn can allow for an easy advantage since the only other way you're getting something like Groudon in on Ho-oh is on a double switch or Yveltal's U-turn which is often hard to slot in given how many other incredible utility moves it has access to like Sucker Punch, Taunt or Defog which are all important for it's function. And giving yourself an easy way to lure those pokemon in for an ever greater advantage or simply forcing damage on something like Yveltal or NDM is a very efficient way to quickly make progress.
I have been saying how easy it is to slap on a team and that is because it has incredible utility beside its incredible U-turns.
Firstly, it has a stab Iron Head that can help with whittling down Xerneas and for a strong STAB that can hit a lot of pokemon for neutral damage.
Secondly, how easy it is to pick up the right boost with download. Everything that you're U-turning on is giving you an attack raise and everything you're hitting with Ice Beam is giving you a sp.atk raise. The only exceptions are Xerneas who is being hit with Iron Head anyways, offensive Eternatus with 4 sp.def and Garm with 4 sp.def. Thirdly, priority in Extreme Speed.
The third point is pretty self explanatory, for revenge killing purposes when your speed isn't enough such as when facing a boosted Xerneas or Black Glasses Yveltal on low health or when facing Trick Room teams. Against those you can get in when Hatterene's sash is broken or is simply on low health to get an attack boost, and then hit the pokemon coming in with a boosted Extreme Speed. For these reasons it's a good idea to pair scarf Genesect with other priority such as Sucker Punch Yveltal and especially Shadow Sneak Marshadow to be able to revenge kill even with just priority attacks when Extreme Speed isn't enough or more commonly when the other priority isn't enough.
Lastly, its dominance in the endgame. When it's checks are weakened or already knocked out Genesect really thrives becuase it's great in insuring wins, there won't be a specs or sash Calyrex-Shadow aiming to snowball trough your weakened team (U-turn twice), there won't be a Marshadow about to clean up (Iron Head), there won't be Zekrom or Rayquaza about to Dragon Dance and sweep you (Ice Beam), Xerneas about to boost and sweep (Iron Head if unboosted/Extreme Speed if boosted) etc. All of these late game threats are dominated by Genesect and it has a tool to deal with ALL of them. That's why it's scarf set is so incredible.

Now the choice band set. Choice band plays a lot differently then choice scarf since it trades away it's late game usefulness for and insane power boost. Its U-turns are now jacked up to insane levels of power which are 2hkoing almost everything that would give it an attack boost except of course Eternatus and Ho-oh. Speaking of those two, its Extreme Speed is now its new best attack since it is 2hkoing both of them as well as everything that hasn't got a heavy physical defense investment or resists the attack. Now everything that falls to around half health is in danger of being picked off by Espeed and that is most likely the result of its previous attacks. Adamant nature with Blaze Kick over Ice Beam is an incredible new option since it easily 2hkos NDM which could normally try to heal off its U-turns which were already quite threatening and of course ohkoing Ferrothorn. As such it is more demanding and harder to fit on teams but it's an incredible offensive partner for almost anything that can capitalize on weakening NDM and luring Ho-oh and Eternatus like scarf mix Zekrom with Volt Switch who is especially good because they can create a deadly Volt-Turn combo.

Simply, what really makes Genesect so amazing and consistent is because every team can heavily capitalize from what it brings to a team which would be a back up Xerneas check, strong revenge killer, great neutral lead, momentum and initiative. All it takes for a team to make the most use of it is a bit more offensive play.

I have no idea what you guys are doing by placing Genesect in the D tier.


Reshiram

Reshiram is an incredible wallbreaker because of the ease with which it claims kills once the sun is set up. Ohkoing all of Yveltal, Eternatus, NDM, Xerneas, Marshadow, Calyrex-Shadow, Groudon etc. (I'm not gonna list out the entier tier just take a look yourself). The only pokemon it can't ohko would be a much shorter list to compose. Those would be Kyogre (2hkod by Draco), Blissey (Body Press 2hkos), Tyranitar (Body Press almost ohkos) and Ho-oh (rock coverage with comes close to ohkoing). As you can see the only pokemon that don't die in a single hit are 2hkod anyways. A lot of people love saying "Rampardos Theorem" or other such bs, but that doesn't at all translate to real battles. They obviously didn't give Reshiram a proper try because once it hit's the field the opponent is at the least taking a Draco with Kyogre (And only the defenisve variants check it) and most likely it is taking at least one ko, so the trouble of getting onto the field is well worth it.
As for its teammates, a Groudon is necessary (preferably a bulkier support variant with Thunder Wave) but not with Stealth Rock. DON'T USE ROCKS WITH RESHIRAM!!! Don't waste time on hazards when you should be clicking twave or claiming your ko with Reshiram. What is the point of trading rocks if your Reshiram is taking 25% when coming in and everything on the opponent's team has boots or resists rocks anyway? Effort in preventing your opponent's hazards goes a whole lot longer way than trying to set yours up. The only scenario where hazards are acceptable on a team that Reshiram is on is if you're using a HDB variant. As for different sets, the best would be life orb to not only strengthen its Blue Flares and Dracos but also Body Presses and Rock Slides (I use it over SE because I don't want to miss), although all of HDB, specs and scarf are also viable. It's just that the life orb set does the role of wallbreaking most effectively and consistently. A water resistant pokemon that can help pivot around Kyogre is also of great use like scarf Palkia or scarf Zekrom.

I spent less effort in explaining how Reshiram works because it is more simple, get up sun, get in Reshiram, claim your kill. I think Reshiram should be partnered up with specially defensive Groudon variants to lure opposing grounds that Reshiram demolishes, spread paralysis to transform something like Yveltal or Eternatus from a tool to threaten Reshiram out into a free ko for it as well as being able to switch into Eternatus, take a hit from Kyogre as well as most other pokemon and Thunder Wave them back. If you want to use offensive Groudon and a strong special attacking partner that can threaten opposing grounds I would suggest AV Kyurem-W for it's ability to switch into Kyogre enough times and allow Groudon to claim kills easily. In that scenario I am again suggesting not to use Stealth Rock on the team.


Because of these reasons I think that Genesect and Reshiram posses a place in the metagame. As you can presume if it were up to me Genesect would be S- and Reshiram would be A-, but I will be realistic so I am suggesting A- for Genesect and C+ for Reshiram.
The worlds most confusing post, sure reshiram shouldn't be D but genesect does nothing
 
Because of these reasons I think that Genesect and Reshiram posses a place in the metagame. As you can presume if it were up to me Genesect would be S- and Reshiram would be A-, but I will be realistic so I am suggesting A- for Genesect and C+ for Reshiram
Before all else lemme say thanks because everything made my sides leave orbit on a vacation across the galaxy and they haven't notified me of when they will be back.

Now being serious, thinking a mon is underrated is totally fine and sometimes lead to unexpected experimentation which leads to discoveries that see it rise up. In this case however neither mon is underrated and only Reshiram has any worthwile potential and it is still generally not worth it.

Firstly the scarf set. Choice scarf Genesect is incredible for it's 99 speed tier outspeeding most other scarfers a lot of sweepers at +1 speed and basically everything else. It can also easily be slapped onto any team given its incredible traits and incredible utility. In a pinch it can take at least 1 attack from most pokemon in the tier, Dynamax Cannon from Eternatus, Astral Barrage from Calyrex-Shadow etc. Most commonly you are going to be switching in on defensive Xerneas' Moonblast, NDM or just being lead off.
Starting here. Scarf Genesect cannot be slapped on any team. A total lack of relevant defensive utility and its immense frailness make it need a lot of help getting in as it is not switching in directly without risk as Genesect is 3HKOd by defensive Xerneas' moonblast with rocks up. It also can only switch into dmax cannon from spdef Eternatus reliable and fears mystical fire.

0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 89-105 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (the xern calc)

Btw it cannot take Astral Barrage. At all.

252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 246-289 (86.9 - 102.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The amount of pokemon it checks and how well it performs in the endgame are its best qualities. It can check so many pokemon that it will be shorter if I just list the pokemon it doesn't have a good match up against and those would be: Eternatus with over 60% Hp, Calyrex-Shadow (only the scarf variant), Ho-oh and Dialga. Those are the only factors stopping Genesect from U-turning over everything forever.
Doesn't check anything well enough to justify a slot seriously. It's not really reliable offensively since it depends on download to give the right boost and it has the egregious flaw of failing to reliably check GeoXern which alone almost makes it worthless as a choice. With how centralized this tier is, you often don't have many slots and running genesect leaves you with even fewer slots while also not checking things well itself. Ferrothorn and NDM are far better steels (Duskmane being among the best pokemon in the tier) and if you want a uturn spamming pivor, Galar Darm is highly threatening to many teams with a far more lethal stab.

Lastly, its dominance in the endgame. When it's checks are weakened or already knocked out Genesect really thrives becuase it's great in insuring wins, there won't be a specs or sash Calyrex-Shadow aiming to snowball trough your weakened team (U-turn twice), there won't be a Marshadow about to clean up (Iron Head), there won't be Zekrom or Rayquaza about to Dragon Dance and sweep you (Ice Beam), Xerneas about to boost and sweep (Iron Head if unboosted/Extreme Speed if boosted) etc. All of these late game threats are dominated by Genesect and it has a tool to deal with ALL of them. That's why it's scarf set is so incredible.
This bit is great to illustrate its other greatest sin: overt prediction reliance. Early/mid game it is forced to predict around things and one wrong prediction kills any offensive momentum you have and leaves you open to a ton of extremely dangerous pokemon. This extends to CB sets.

Simply, what really makes Genesect so amazing and consistent is because every team can heavily capitalize from what it brings to a team which would be a back up Xerneas check, strong revenge killer, great neutral lead, momentum and initiative. All it takes for a team to make the most use of it is a bit more offensive play.
Not a Xern check, not a good revenge killer, doesn't really do anything except leave you with the arduous task of assigning the duty of checking behemoths elsewhere.

I have no idea what you guys are doing by placing Genesect in the D
It's complete junk that's why. And not worth a teamslot more often than not.

Fit into spoilers so as to not clog the thread with long comments btw.

Reshiram is an incredible wallbreaker because of the ease with which it claims kills once the sun is set up. Ohkoing all of Yveltal, Eternatus, NDM, Xerneas, Marshadow, Calyrex-Shadow, Groudon etc. (I'm not gonna list out the entier tier just take a look yourself). The only pokemon it can't ohko would be a much shorter list to compose. Those would be Kyogre (2hkod by Draco), Blissey (Body Press 2hkos), Tyranitar (Body Press almost ohkos) and Ho-oh (rock coverage with comes close to ohkoing). As you can see the only pokemon that don't die in a single hit are 2hkod anyways. A lot of people love saying "Rampardos Theorem" or other such bs, but that doesn't at all translate to real battles.
Speaking of no defensive utility, here is Reshiram. The sad uber who has seen less competitive success than Kyurem. You say Rampardos Theorem is BS, but the experience of many players, especially high level players, say otherwise. Reshiram can hit as hard as it wants on paper, but when you have to deal with a stealth rock weakness, awkward speed tier and minimal at best defensive utility. A fire type neutral to fairy and a dragon type neutral to water/ice? If you really want a wallbreaker that is nigh unwallable specs Kyogre is right there. Or you can run Specs Calyrex-Shadow which is better than Reshiram in basically every way. You get far better results from both of these sets and far more reliably.

The Rampardos Theorem states tgat power isn't everything, and power is all Reshiram has. And it has to predict. And it gets hard stopped by bulky Lunala when shadow shield is up.

They obviously didn't give Reshiram a proper try
One couldn't come to the harsh conclusions about Reshiram without first giving it a go. It was super hyped back in BW before players used it and realized how terribly flawed it was. Frankly it's incredibly disingenous to assume people just haven't properly tried it despite it existing for multiple generations now.

As for its teammates, a Groudon is necessary (preferably a bulkier support variant with Thunder Wave) but not with Stealth Rock. DON'T USE ROCKS WITH RESHIRAM!!! Don't waste time on hazards when you should be clicking twave or claiming your ko with Reshiram. What is the point of trading rocks if your Reshiram is taking 25% when coming in and everything on the opponent's team has boots or resists rocks anyway?
You're opponent will still have rocks and you won't. Your Reshiram is taking 25%. Meanwhile if you put up rocks, you help pressure/chip mons including but not limited to: offensive Yveltal, many CalyS varients, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Galar Darmanitan and even the rare but dangerous CB Ho oh. Even mons with HDB becone pressured by rocks if they get knocked off which is immensely key.

A water resistant pokemon that can help pivot around Kyogre is also of great use like scarf Palkia or scarf Zekrom.
Scarf Zekrom is not a serious set last i checked. And Palkia as a whole is uh... RIP. The rest of your post is just not helping your argument. AV KyuremW?

I really don't want to sound like a dick since that's not helpful or going to encourage any kind of discussion, but much of this is extreme on paper writing rather than something applicable to actual games with any kind of consistency.
 
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 316-374 (79.3 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 72 Def Yveltal: 251-296 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Libero Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 164 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 361-429 (78.1 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Libero Cinderace High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Groudon in Sun: 222-263 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Wait.... if Cinderace is adamant some defensive Eternatus outspeed it. To be honest, some balanced teams have trouble with Cinderace if no runing defensive Zygarde or Lunala (with status move + roost to avoid sucker punch). But you need to predict correctly and one decently strong move + life orb recoil generally finishes the bunny. Marshadow exists. Very hard to justify using this thing but is not totally useless.


252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-White Fusion Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 204-240 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Fusion Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 290-342 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 280-330 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 178-211 (42.8 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 127-150 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyogre: 314-372 (77.7 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Need Modest nature for wallbreak some of this walls. To be honest Rayquaza is better with Choice Band, needs less predictions. Is sad to say that this thing is fine at D rank....but in my opinion could be C-. Life orb + Roost can be used as a secondary check to some kyogre sets.

About Tapu koko, screens set is the only worth set and maybe.... a Roost + Defog set with boots to act as a Defogger that checks Yveltal and even avoid the 2HKO against Iron head defensive Necro-DM ignoring the broken Thunder wave with defensive evs and enough speed for outspeed timid palkia (and yveltal max +speed).

Audino....I don't use this mon, so I have no comments.
 
-(To be honest... I love Cinderace, and it still hurts me to know that yes, she definitely deserves to be in D) and seeing all this more objectively, Cinder I only see her viable with thick boots *hide your legs lmao* and Court Change, but other than that...he definitely deserves to be on D, offensive? , you have marshadow and any uber or DD faster, or with more power, it really doesn't do much beyond those 2 things, and still doesn't threaten anything unless I use lifeorb or choiceband, being fragile and sucker punch as the only way to hit calyrex shadow (not to mention Ho-oH blocks it on all his sets, no matter what buff item he's running)
-The topic of reshiram has already been said above but I will just say that it could be interesting to use it with DD, maybe solve its bad mashups and gain more speed, roost, etc; but the fact that zekrom and Ray surpass him as DD only leaves him *for me* as a very niche option, but at least *I think* he's not a Tier D mon, at least I think he would enter C or -C as maximum, since if Necrozma DuskMane *in a special variant* doesn't carry much bulk, modest, or just lifeorb, they take it down easily.

-regarding TapuKoko and Audino *I know it's a joke* ... (Koko what the user above said, and Audino...eeehh....)
 
to B- or C+

While it retains its good matchup against Weavile HO and can basically always switch into Yveltal, it just performs so poorly against team structures other than that for a B mon and was completely irrelevant in SCL. It just feels like a waste of a team slot way too often and felt like a fad mon. It's hard enough to justify using anything outside of the top 16-19 mons but I think ZamC is really pushing it and is a bit too egregious of a MU fish
 
About Calyrex-Shadow, I need to say why I vote NO BAN in the suspect. The more important reason is that...learns aromatherapy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695270512-lcxag0gq8hv0hw625ihbebjv4t0lhmopw

Not exactly a ubers battle but shows how broken is paralysis even with the nerfs that game freak made during generations 6 and 7.
1 turn is needed to spam paralysis with Glare (the most broken move to achieve the broken status called paralysis because is 100% accurate and only electrics are inmune to it) and you have... more than 12 turns with fun (acounting the turns 19-48 only and not the 2 turns para with kyurem-B).

You think is pure luck? Not, today I see the same problem in other battles:v4::
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695380341-og6p5c9c4fjpyhwdfxrfp5tcexziijjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695353648-5b8dcyx6jmz4b4s22k6dtmcig9g65lupw (probably not enough relevant in this one)


When I used teams around thunder wave subCM ogre, paraflinch necrozma-DM and coil glare + sub zygarde in 8 gen ubers....was the same, a hax party with 0 little ...skill?? Well, not a skill move to be honest.
Paralysis is just 0 risk. very little risk and HIGH reward.

Specially the sample team with the 3 mons:

https://pokepast.es/6d1f321ef452b7f8

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/submissions-closed-ss-sample-teams-dlc2.3675564/ (second BEST team).

I can provide more replays with similar teams but I don't think is necessary. If you play the tier enough you notice that.

Having a Cleric that fits in the majority of teams helps with this superbroken status is good for the tier. So...don't suspect calyrex-shadow in the future when other unhealthy and uncompetitive things exist with little counterplay viable.

I'm calm when writing this lines because is not worth being angry when playing a game just for fun and people need to see the truth....paralysisis is broken and if sleep clause exist....paralysis clause should exist too.
To be honest...I need more than 8 years playing pokémon to realize that paralysis is busted.:psycry:
Just like baton pass across the generations maybe.
 
About Calyrex-Shadow, I need to say why I vote NO BAN in the suspect. The more important reason is that...learns aromatherapy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695270512-lcxag0gq8hv0hw625ihbebjv4t0lhmopw

Not exactly a ubers battle but shows how broken is paralysis even with the nerfs that game freak made during generations 6 and 7.
1 turn is needed to spam paralysis with Glare (the most broken move to achieve the broken status called paralysis because is 100% accurate and only electrics are inmune to it) and you have... more than 12 turns with fun (acounting the turns 19-48 only and not the 2 turns para with kyurem-B).

You think is pure luck? Not, today I see the same problem in other battles:v4::
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695380341-og6p5c9c4fjpyhwdfxrfp5tcexziijjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1695353648-5b8dcyx6jmz4b4s22k6dtmcig9g65lupw (probably not enough relevant in this one)


When I used teams around thunder wave subCM ogre, paraflinch necrozma-DM and coil glare + sub zygarde in 8 gen ubers....was the same, a hax party with 0 little ...skill?? Well, not a skill move to be honest.
Paralysis is just 0 risk. very little risk and HIGH reward.

Specially the sample team with the 3 mons:

https://pokepast.es/6d1f321ef452b7f8

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/submissions-closed-ss-sample-teams-dlc2.3675564/ (second BEST team).

I can provide more replays with similar teams but I don't think is necessary. If you play the tier enough you notice that.

Having a Cleric that fits in the majority of teams helps with this superbroken status is good for the tier. So...don't suspect calyrex-shadow in the future when other unhealthy and uncompetitive things exist with little counterplay viable.

I'm calm when writing this lines because is not worth being angry when playing a game just for fun and people need to see the truth....paralysisis is broken and if sleep clause exist....paralysis clause should exist too.
To be honest...I need more than 8 years playing pokémon to realize that paralysis is busted.:psycry:
Just like baton pass across the generations maybe.
honestly, aromatherapy is like, the 20th biggest reason not to ban caly-s

also, if you're complaining about paralysis now, just play rby
 

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