Oh God, not another Wobbuffet discussion!

So I guess Colin is taking a page out of Obi's playbook and decided to test multiple things at once. ;)

I wonder how many people are going to "avoid" Shoddy until the testing periods are over. And has there been any word how long the testing period will last and who makes the final decision on what stays and goes?
 
@Colonel M: I would highly recommend AGAINST sending in Tyranitar with Pursuit from a U-Turn, because if Wobbuffet used counter while U-Turn was happening, the Tyranitar coming in is going to have to suck up the damage from Counter, just U-Turn to a Ghost. Baton Pass works much better, and that's been something that's existed since ADV.
Good point. I was just stating that if it was a weaker U-Turn, it's possible to still send Tyranitar in, or if you predict Safegaurd / Encore. Actually, Baton Pass would be better in the case of sending Tyranitar in.

I seriously wouldn't dodge Shoddy. Actually I was thinking of using a TauntGyarados again (not Bulkydos) and try to threaten sweeps again. Aye, them were the days...
 
How many times have you actually faced Wobbuffet? How many times have you used Wobbuffet? I can bet it's none, because very few people have actually used Wobbuffet, since it hasn't been allowed, yet people are saying these things as if they've faced it all their life.

I'd say that Blissey isn't fun to use, and it's not very fun to face either, and also boring, cheap and extremely lame, and it has counters too. Doesn't mean it isn't allowed in standards though...

Every time I played against a Wobbuffet, I know that the game of Pokemon is reduced to Rock-Paper-Scissors. Wobbuffet is the absolute pinnacle of boring. Its movepool consists of 7 attacks, one of which is Splash. Blissey at least has variation, CM Bliss, Stealth Rocks, Cleric Bliss, T-wave...

Every Wobbuffet does the same exact damn thing. I'd ban it based on how dumb and boring it is alone. There is no strategy to learn when using Wobbuffet. I'm not playing pokemon to have it reduced to "Guess the Number".

Hell, friggen "Guess the Number" at least has typically 10 different choices. With Wobbuffet, there are only 3 choices: Encore, Counter, and Mirror Coat. Wobbuffet does nothing for Pokemon.
 
Lol, for kicks:

- Splash
- Charm
- Destiny Bond
- Safegaurd
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore

Wow, really boring. Actually the more un-boring thing about him is is if you carry something like BulkyGyara. Then it's free set-up. Lol. >_>;
 
Heh, well maybe it's just me, but I don't think that using a Wobbuffet would be boring, but I'm a player that uses the most evil tactics to beat my opponent.

Seriously, whenever I Encore an Electric move on one of my teams, and I switch to Dugtrio, I become very giddy inside, and that giddiness would be increased from 2x to 20x with Wobbuffet! :P

Heh, but I could say the same thing about Dugtrio. It pretty much always runs a physical choice set, with the same 4 moves over and over. Don't you think for a minute that it's boring to face?
 
Lol, for kicks:

- Splash
- Charm
- Destiny Bond
- Safegaurd
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore

Wow, really boring. Actually the more un-boring thing about him is is if you carry something like BulkyGyara. Then it's free set-up. Lol. >_>;

Consideing the fact that Gyarados isn't hard to counter in the slightest, and not to mention the relative obscurity of the move Taunt, I'd say that it isn't exactly set-up fodder.
 
After reading some of the walls-o-text here (especially Ampharos'), Wobbuffet might be an interesting thing to at least allow in OU for the time being.

As for Blissey being boring, I don't think so. I like seeing Blissey, especially since it's free setup fodder for my Boah and Blissey without Toxic, Sing, or Calm Mind can be severely outstalled by my Cradily.

In fact, my best memory of Blissey rapage was switching Boah in on a Softboiled and subbing against a T-Wave. That was priceless.
 
Heh, well maybe it's just me, but I don't think that using a Wobbuffet would be boring, but I'm a player that uses the most evil tactics to beat my opponent.

Seriously, whenever I Encore an Electric move on one of my teams, and I switch to Dugtrio, I become very giddy inside, and that giddiness would be increased from 2x to 20x with Wobbuffet! :P

Heh, but I could say the same thing about Dugtrio. It pretty much always runs a physical choice set, with the same 4 moves over and over. Don't you think for a minute that it's boring to face?

I can't see Wobbuffet enhancing the metagame though. Why bring a pokemon a tier down that doesn't balance out anything? Is it worth half the players being unhappy to have one more useless pokemon?
 
Heh, well maybe it's just me, but I don't think that using a Wobbuffet would be boring, but I'm a player that uses the most evil tactics to beat my opponent.

Seriously, whenever I Encore an Electric move on one of my teams, and I switch to Dugtrio, I become very giddy inside, and that giddiness would be increased from 2x to 20x with Wobbuffet! :P

Heh, but I could say the same thing about Dugtrio. It pretty much always runs a physical choice set, with the same 4 moves over and over. Don't you think for a minute that it's boring to face?
Those boring zero-prediction revenge-kills are quite boring, I'd agree.
 
Lol, for kicks:

- Splash
- Charm
- Destiny Bond
- Safegaurd
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore

Wow, really boring. Actually the more un-boring thing about him is is if you carry something like BulkyGyara. Then it's free set-up. Lol. >_>;

How do you set up considering you can't switch in? People don't understand the term counter if they think Wobbuffet has counters.

The person using Wobbuffet just has to send him in when he sees you using something that A) doesn't have taunt or B) doesn't have a move which can 2hko him. If one member of your team doesn't fulfill these requirements, it's dead weight as soon as Wobbuffet is sent out. So instead of having 1 teamslot to counter him, you need to use all 6.

For an example of what it takes to 2hko him, Scarfchomp's Outrage is barely a 3hko. The small list of choice sweepers which do have the power to 2hko him, like Heracross, better not accidentally pick Close Combat or they're done.

Wobbuffet's strengths aren't even that he's a better revenge killer than Dugtrio; he lets anything in the game set up guaranteed. The difficulty of using Bellyzard is not that Bellyzard sucks, it's that setting him up is very difficult. Add Wobbuffet to your team and a Bellyzard sweep is inevitable if they don't have priority moves. And this goes for any powerful setup sweeper, not just Bellyzard, SD Extremespeed Lucario also says hi.

It's the most mind numbingly boring way to play the game and there's nothing you can do about it, thanks shadow tag.
 
Seriously? Pull your head out of your ass, no one would run a dugtrio with a set like that JUST to beat a wobuffett. Resulting to gimmicks isn't worth posting
I agree that Wobb is broken and deserves OU, and thats the whole point. If people started using a Dugtrio set like that, it would scream overcentralization of the metagame.
Plus, Lyf here was just using that set from when I told him about the set people used in ADV when Wobb was still allowed in OU play which was Rock Slide/ EQ/ Toxic/ Protect.
 
It's the most mind numbingly boring way to play the game and there's nothing you can do about it, thanks shadow tag.

Using Blissey is actually about the most boring way to play, and everyone does it.

Wobbuffet might look boring by itself, but its actually fascinating to annull him with things which are unheard of and people will come up with (everything from Worry Seed to Mean Look). Surely, speculating, the metagame will be broadened by this.

Anyhow, great news, lets wait and see.
 
Using Blissey is actually about the most boring way to play, and everyone does it.

Wobbuffet might look boring by itself, but its actually fascinating to annull him with things which are unheard of and people will come up with (everything from Worry Seed to Mean Look). Surely, speculating, the metagame will be broadened by this.

Anyhow, great news, lets wait and see.

1. Erm... what? How do you plan to force the opponent to bring Wobbuffet onto a Worry Seed pokemon? The opponent has to make the mistake of switching Wobbuffet in. You never have control when the opponent brings in a Wobbuffet unless you have Shed Shell.

2. Mean Look == 8 PP. Encore + Mean Look == struggle in 8 turns or less. Wobbuffet ain't running low on PP any time soon.

Heh, well maybe it's just me, but I don't think that using a Wobbuffet would be boring, but I'm a player that uses the most evil tactics to beat my opponent.

Seriously, whenever I Encore an Electric move on one of my teams, and I switch to Dugtrio, I become very giddy inside, and that giddiness would be increased from 2x to 20x with Wobbuffet! :P

Heh, but I could say the same thing about Dugtrio. It pretty much always runs a physical choice set, with the same 4 moves over and over. Don't you think for a minute that it's boring to face?

It is not only the set that makes Wobbuffet boring. The set is a aggravating circumstance indeed, but it isn't the "main course".

What makes Wobbuffet boring is that again, you are no longer playing Pokemon as soon as he switches in. You are playing Rock-Paper-Scissors (actually, "Matching Pennies", which is even simpler and dumber), and that game got boring by the time I got in 2nd Grade. Further, you are forced to stop playing Pokemon and instead play RPS.
 
Using Blissey is actually about the most boring way to play, and everyone does it.

Wobbuffet might look boring by itself, but its actually fascinating to annull him with things which are unheard of and people will come up with (everything from Worry Seed to Mean Look). Surely, speculating, the metagame will be broadened by this.

Anyhow, great news, lets wait and see.

Blissey has more than 1 set with the same 4 moves, and as much as I hate Blissey and as much as she overcentralizes the game- she is on none of my teams from advance or D/P- she is far less game breaking than Wobbuffet. You can switch out of Blissey to a counter. You can't switch a counter into Wobbuffet at all, he just counters most of OU at his leisure in a way that no other Pokemon does.

And wtf, Worry Seed? I think Dragontamer explained that one for you well enough. Unless you want to put Worry Seed and/or Taunt on every member of your team, don't bother with it.
 
I agree 100% with testing Wobbuffet on shoddy. Considering how incredibly easy it is to deal huge amounts of damage in D/P, Wobby will have trouble netting more than one kill without becoming completely useless. The only gamebreaking functions it serves are encore trapping pokes for a free set-up; and encore trapping for free switches into dugtrio. Once dugtrio kills you get a free set up anyway; and BellyZard and SD Lucario, arguably the two best set-ups in the game, are easily dealt with by a number of commonly used pokes. Even if you must sacrifice two of your own team members to kill the Charizard or Lucario, Wobbuffet will almost certainly have become too weak to be useful at that point, so it's essentially an even trade.

Not to mention the fact that taunting Heatrans and Gyaras get free attacks off of Wobbuffet.

I can see how people could easily freak out when they see a Wobbuffet, but all you have to do is calm down and predict. Wobbuffet can easily make the user lose the game if played wrong; all that needs to be done to beat it (or any other pokemon for that matter) is to make smart choices.

I do have experience using Wobbuffet, and at the most competitive level I doubt it's going to be any better than dugtrio, who can score kills and remain alive with his speed (keep in mind Wobby's encore is horribly slow).

However, I disagree with AA in his assertion that a team based around Wobbuffet is impractical. His ability is still the best in the game in my opinion, and I plan on abusing it as soon as I find time to make a team. That 5/6 of your team could be filled with many different powerful combinations of powerful pokes.

And if it turns out I'm wrong, and Wobbuffet is ZOMG AMAZING in OU, then it still won't matter, because this is a test. I'm sure the good members of smogon can find better things to do for two weeks than play an online simulation of a children's handheld video game.

Good Luck, Wobbuffet --TAY
 
Wouldn't it be easier to test Wobbuffet privately than drop him into ladder play and assume things won't crash? Or had they done preliminary testing? With Deoxys S, there was at least a tournament done that didn't have to interfere with regular gameplay.
 
How do you do "private testing"?

2. Mean Look == 8 PP. Encore + Mean Look == struggle in 8 turns or less. Wobbuffet ain't running low on PP any time soon.

To my knowledge, that isn't how Encore works. If you run out of PP before the Encore ends, then the Encore automatically ends (so it can never force you to Struggle because of PP issues).
 
Oh my god what is happening...
I hope he gets rebanned timely rather than like "uhh we testing... still.." a month later... well i'm okay with the whole testing him, but in all honesty, do you see what your saying? His "counters" are VERY situational and gimmicky. He is very game breaking to be honest. Its just so obvious gah ..
Im making a team tomorow packing a gimik poke i guess to stop me from going crazy
 
I mean, between individuals who are interested in whether or not Wobbuffet should change tier, and not ladder players who may not care at all about Wobbuffet.
 
I agree 100% with testing Wobbuffet on shoddy. Considering how incredibly easy it is to deal huge amounts of damage in D/P, Wobby will have trouble netting more than one kill without becoming completely useless. The only gamebreaking functions it serves are encore trapping pokes for a free set-up; and encore trapping for free switches into dugtrio. Once dugtrio kills you get a free set up anyway; and BellyZard and SD Lucario, arguably the two best set-ups in the game, are easily dealt with by a number of commonly used pokes. Even if you must sacrifice two of your own team members to kill the Charizard or Lucario, Wobbuffet will almost certainly have become too weak to be useful at that point, so it's essentially an even trade.

Not to mention the fact that taunting Heatrans and Gyaras get free attacks off of Wobbuffet.

Again, I ask, how do you get Wobbuffet in on a Gyarados? Heatran doesn't normally run Taunt, so I'll give you that one. The opponent switches Wobbuffet in when he wants to. Unless Wobbuffet just killed something... Wobbuffet will never face Gyarados. And if Gyarados ever _does_ come in on Wobbuffet, all you gotta do is switch to a generic Gyarados Counter, and Wobbuffet will be fine.

I can see how people could easily freak out when they see a Wobbuffet, but all you have to do is calm down and predict. Wobbuffet can easily make the user lose the game if played wrong; all that needs to be done to beat it (or any other pokemon for that matter) is to make smart choices.
There is no prediction against a Wobbuffet. Optimal play of Wobbuffet requires the Wobbuffet user to base his decisions off a random number generator so that he isn't out-predicted.

Maybe in face-to-face play it would work as you can see the opponent's face and actually start a bluffing game. But this does not apply to online play at all.

Finally, this isn't a test. The Deoxys-S test was a test tournament. That was a test, and now Deoxys is pending in the OU ladder environment as a result of that test. However, right now, by changing the ladder pokemon all of a sudden, you're essentially forcing the players to play with Wobbuffet without a test. The Ladder is the game, tests should not be conducted in the game. Hell, you're risking people's ratings on tests. This goes against every good virtue of a game.

People don't want to be testers, they want to play the game. I am not against a Wobbuffet test, but putting it on the ladder is just plain stupid. If you want a test, make a tournament. At least the tournament players get to decide whether or not they want to play with a Wobbuffet. Forcing players to do testing is never a good idea.
 
Many people will Straight DC when they both sent out a Wobba ... LOl
Didn't DP fix that? (wobbas can switch out of each other)

Anyways, I've read what everyone's had to say, and I'd be willing to test out wobba in OU (although it's not like we have any choice in the matter anyway). The main thing that concerns me is one question. What does it add to the game? It basically has one set and one strategy, and a very boring one at that. Also, People are saying that it will shift the metagame, which is supposed to be a good thing. If we all have to start running toxic dugtrios and U-turn on random pokemon that fear wobba (why would wobba switch into a u-turn user/taunter anyway?), I don't think that's a good thing. The metagame should not have to shift like that to accommodate one new pokemon, it limits the possibilities of the game itself.

Eh, my two cents.
 
there still last pokemon wubby vs last pokemon wubby...which is still back to square one...even with struggles new recoil its still gonna be A LONG time before both wubs start struggling
 
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