Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[DarkFE]

Does Ground immunity still apply? I ask because apparently Fire/Flying -> Burn Up -> Roost makes you ???/Flying but with no Ground immunity (I don't know much about this interaction personally).

Yes. The immunity to Ground is maintained.

 

[The Contrast]

Is this ditto mechanic intended?

 

[drampa's grandpa]

If an Arceus is hacked in as a Normal type with Multitype and a Plate what type will an Imposter of that Arceus be, Normal or the plates typing?

 

[Fragmented]

more Cud Chew + Fling interactions

test against Naive (-SpDef) Farigiraf with Cud Chew

test 1

Turn 1: Grafaiai flings Aguav Berry, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused. Farigiraf knocks out Grafaiai.
Turn 2: Tinkaton flings Persim Berry and cures Farigiraf's confusion. Cud Chew DOES NOT activate for Aguav Berry.
Turn 3: Cud Chew activates (probably for Persim Berry).

test 2

Turn 1: Grafaiai flings Aguav Berry, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused.
Turn 2: Grafaiai uses Slash, Poison Touch poisons Farigiraf. Poison damage occurs before Cud Chew activates.

test 3

Turn 1: Grafaiai flings Aguav Berry, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused. Farigiraf knocks out Grafaiai
Turn 2: Tinkaton flings Rawst Berry, does nothing. Cud Chew activates for Aguav Berry.
Turn 3: Cud Chew does not activate for Rawst Berry.

test 4: null

test 5

Turn 1: Grafaiai flings Aguav Berry, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused. Farigiraf knocks out Grafaiai.
Turn 2: Tinkaton flings Liechi Berry, raised Farigiraf's attack. Cud Chew DOES NOT activate for Aguav Berry.
Turn 3: Cud Chew activates for Liechi Berry.

test 6: null
test 7: null
test 8: null

test 9

Turn 1: Grafaiai flings Aguav Berry, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused.
Turn 2: Farigiraf snaps out of confusion and KOs Grafaiai. Cud Chew activates, Farigiraf heals and becomes confused.

tl;dr, Cud Chew only activates for the most recent berry eaten. If the berry confuses the user, and the user snaps out of confusion, consuming the berry again by Cud Chew causes confusion again.

edit: finally managed to get Gale Wings and tested the interaction with Tera Blast. Gale Wings does not give priority to Tera Blast when the user changes type to Flying.

 

[DragonMasterX34]

So during a raid when there was Electric Terrain up, my Iron Treads got a speed boost initially, got KO'd, then when it came back in it got a defense boost from Quark Drive. Don't know what was going on there, but if it hasn't been mentioned it could possibly be worth looking into since it's technically possible for paradox mons to revive via Revival Blessing.

 

[Worldie]

So during a raid when there was Electric Terrain up, my Iron Treads got a speed boost initially, got KO'd, then when it came back in it got a defense boost from Quark Drive. Don't know what was going on there, but if it hasn't been mentioned it could possibly be worth looking into since it's technically possible for paradox mons to revive via Revival Blessing.

Said like this it doesn't mean much, you'd need to specify the rest of the conditions. Including your Iron Tread exact stats.
We already verified that the "current" highest stat is taken in consideration for Quark Drive. In a vacuum that doesn't really say much.
If es: you used Rapid Spin before the first Elec.Terrain went up, you'd have got a Speed Boost from Quark Drive, and then a Defense boost once revived.

 

[Fragmented]

So during a raid when there was Electric Terrain up, my Iron Treads got a speed boost initially, got KO'd, then when it came back in it got a defense boost from Quark Drive. Don't know what was going on there, but if it hasn't been mentioned it could possibly be worth looking into since it's technically possible for paradox mons to revive via Revival Blessing.

Said like this it doesn't mean much, you'd need to specify the rest of the conditions. Including your Iron Tread exact stats.
We already verified that the "current" highest stat is taken in consideration for Quark Drive. In a vacuum that doesn't really say much.
If es: you used Rapid Spin before the first Elec.Terrain went up, you'd have got a Speed Boost from Quark Drive, and then a Defense boost once revived.

So I've done several raids with Flutter Mane, and the stat increases are really weird.

Flutter Mane stats

I forgot to record it happening, but several times when the raid mon sets up Sunny Day, the Protosynthesis message appears saying that SpDef has been boosted, when SpDef is no where near the stat levels of SpAtk and Speed. Also, this only happened to me in raids. I tried setting manual sun outside of raids in wild battles, and Speed is boosted as usual, or SpAtk is boosted after a CM boost. This might just be the bugginess of the raids in the game as a whole.

edit: some pics of the weird thing happening

Hide

Before the Arboliva used Sunny Day, I set up a Calm Mind with Flutter Mane.

Protosynthesis activates under harsh sunlight. Text reads that Sp. Def was heightened.

edit 2: how it should normally work

 

[Count Bleck]

So I've done several raids with Flutter Mane, and the stat increases are really weird.

Flutter Mane stats

View attachment 468341

I forgot to record it happening, but several times when the raid mon sets up Sunny Day, the Protosynthesis message appears saying that SpDef has been boosted, when SpDef is no where near the stat levels of SpAtk and Speed. Also, this only happened to me in raids. I tried setting manual sun outside of raids in wild battles, and Speed is boosted as usual, or SpAtk is boosted after a CM boost. This might just be the bugginess of the raids in the game as a whole.

edit: some pics of the weird thing happening

Hide

View attachment 468355

Before the Arboliva used Sunny Day, I set up a Calm Mind with Flutter Mane.

View attachment 468353

Protosynthesis activates under harsh sunlight. Text reads that Sp. Def was heightened.

edit 2: how it should normally work

Did you happen to notice if a Defensive Cheer was cast at the time? afaik the cheers boost your stats directly rather than increasing the stages.

 

[DragonMasterX34]

Said like this it doesn't mean much, you'd need to specify the rest of the conditions. Including your Iron Tread exact stats.
We already verified that the "current" highest stat is taken in consideration for Quark Drive. In a vacuum that doesn't really say much.
If es: you used Rapid Spin before the first Elec.Terrain went up, you'd have got a Speed Boost from Quark Drive, and then a Defense boost once revived.

Speed is the highest stat on my Iron Treads followed by attack, then defense.

-Miraidon and Iron Treads are sent out at the start of the raid, this is the turn Electric terrain goes up. Iron Treads's speed is increased by Quark Drive.

-Iron Treads gets KO'd, Electric Terrain is still up.

-Iron Treads gets sent out again and Quark Drive procs a defense boost.

Now if KO'd mons retain defense boosts from cheers then that may explain things, although I don't remember if a cheer was used in this chain of events.

 

[doipy hooves]

Fling: Are TMs still flingable for their base power like TRs and if so, what is the new strongest TM?

Unfortunately TMs cannot be thrown with Fling. I tried with TM163 Hyper Beam and it failed (video).

 

[UltiMario]

If an Arceus is hacked in as a Normal type with Multitype and a Plate what type will an Imposter of that Arceus be, Normal or the plates typing?

Arceus appears normal type, but it and Judgment both retain the typing from the Plate.

Has anyone tested how Orbs work on the Origin formes of Sinnoh Legends? It currently looks like Adamant Orb/Lustrous Orb doesn't work on Dialga-Origin/Palkia-Origin but Griseous Orb work on Giratina-Origin. I'm not sure if this is just because PS forgets to change the code. (Usually they won't have these Orbs as item but that can happen in BH lol.)

Wanted to mess around with this a bit.
Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous Orb no longer form change them. It's now Adamant Crystal, Lustrous Globe, and Griseous Core that do.

The Origins can be hacked to hold other items. They retain the full effects of those items. They can trick items, even their "new Orbs." They don't transform mid-battle if they lose their Orbs. You can Knock Off them as well. Fling fails, though.

Not relevant for Smogon, but changing to a different item in the overworld in Origin will revert them to altered, even if they weren't holding their transformation item. Giving them their proper item while in Origin form and holding a hacked item keeps them in Origin form, no transformation animations required.

Empoleon isn't in the game so idk how possible it is to test with hacking or whatever but, does salt cure do extra damage to a water/steel type or does it cap at 25%?

Salt Cure deals 25% to Empoleon.

 

[Area51Fruitflies]

Do we have a deeper understanding of Good as Gold? For example, would it prevent the user from being effected from the following:
- Whirlwind
- Haze
- Block or Mean Look
- Destiny Bond
- Having an opponent copy stat boosts with Heart Swap
- Being redirected by Follow Me
- Memento (not effected by Magic Bounce, so would Good as Gold block it?)
- An ally's use of After You, Ally Switch, Coaching/Decorate, Helping Hand, or, Aromatherapy

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. Two more results that may prove useful.

In light of Showdown implementing Gen 9, I'd like some of these accelerated:

• This is huge for Gen 9 Pure Hackmons: Does Ability Shield block Neutralizing Gas?

I can happily report that the Ability Shield does block Neutralizing Gas for its holder! The alert comes up saying "(Pokemon)'s Ability is protected by the effects of its Ability Shield!" and when tested Gale Wings continued to grant priority to Brave Bird on Ability Shield Talonflame at full HP as expected. Also tested without the Ability Shield to ensure that Neutralizing Gas was functioning normally, and it properly prevented the priority boost of full HP Gale Wings when no Ability Shield was held by Talonflame.

Is Flying-type Tera Blast boosted by Gale Wings?

Flying-type Tera Blast appears to not be priority boosted by full HP Gale Wings. Tested against several wild Pokemon both on the initial turn of Terastallizing Talonflame and on subsequent turns. Other Flying-type moves such as Brave Bird are still priority boosted at full HP as expected while Terastallized.

 

[R_N]

So I guess this is just worth asking again: are all abilities, even ones not currently in the game or limited to mega pokemon, functional?

 

[captainchandler]

Wall of text in the hide tag. TL;DR of Rage Fist interaction testing:

• Taunt does not proc BP increase
• Stat-lowering moves does not proc BP increase
• Toxic damage, Life Orb damage, Sticky Barb damage, Black Sludge damage does not proc BP increase
• Getting status'd by opponents and hitting self in confusion does not proc BP increase

some tests

Level 35 81 Atk Primeape vs Level 32 71 Def Dachsbun (Stat Dropped)

Turn 1: Dachsbun uses Baby-Doll Eyes, Primeape uses Stealth Rocks
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, does 14 damage to Dachsbun

-1 Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (50 BP) vs. Lvl 32 0 HP / 0- Def Dachsbun: 11-14 (12.5 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO
Possible damage amounts: (11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14)
-1 Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (100 BP) vs. Lvl 32 0 HP / 0- Def Dachsbun: 22-26 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (22, 22, 22, 22, 23, 23, 23, 23, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 26)

Rage Fist seems to be 50 BP even after having stat dropped.

Level 35 81 Atk Primeape vs Level 32 39 Def Murkrow (Taunt'd)

Turn 1: Primeape uses Stealth Rocks, Murkrow uses Taunt
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, does 14 damage to Murkrow

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (50 BP) vs. Lvl 32 0 HP / 0 Def Murkrow: 14-17 (15.5 - 18.8%) -- possible 6HKO
Possible damage amounts: (14, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17)
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (100 BP) vs. Lvl 32 0 HP / 0 Def Murkrow: 28-34 (31.1 - 37.7%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (28, 29, 29, 29, 30, 30, 30, 31, 31, 31, 32, 32, 32, 33, 33, 34)

Taunt did not cause Rage Fist's BP to increase.

Level 36 83 Atk Primeape vs Level 34 68 Def Tropius (Toxic Orb Test)

Turn 1: Primeape uses Subsitute, Tropius uses Stomp. Substitute does not break. Toxic Orb procs.
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, Tropius uses ???. First tick of Toxic damage
Turn 3: Primeape uses Rage Fist, Tropius uses Stomp.

Total Damage dealt: 37

Lvl 36 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (50 BP) vs. Lvl 34 0 HP / 0 Def Tropius: 17-21 (14 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
Possible damage amounts: (17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 20, 20, 20, 20, 21)
Lvl 36 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (100 BP) vs. Lvl 34 0 HP / 0 Def Tropius: 34-41 (28 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (34, 35, 35, 36, 36, 36, 37, 37, 38, 38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 41)

Seeing as how total damage dealt is less than 100 BP Rage Fist damage, damage to Substitute and damage from status does not proc Rage Fist BP increase.

Level 36 83 Atk Primeape vs Level 33 63 Def Tropius (Life Orb Test)

Turn 1: Primeape uses Substitute, Tropius uses Stomp
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, gets damaged by Life Orb, Tropius uses Whirlwind, fails (cringe)
Turn 3: Primeape uses Rage Fist

Total Damage dealt: 53

Lvl 36 0 Atk Life Orb Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 33 0 HP / 0 Def Tropius: 25-30 (21.1 - 25.4%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (25, 25, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 27, 29, 29, 29, 29, 30)
Lvl 36 0 Atk Life Orb Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 33 0 HP / 0 Def Tropius: 48-57 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (48, 48, 49, 49, 51, 51, 52, 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 55, 56, 56, 57)

Same observation as previous test, Life Orb damage does not proc Rage Fist BP increase.

Level 37 86 Atk Primeape vs Level 35 75 Def Spidops (Sticky Barb)

Turn 1: Primeape uses Substitute, Spidops uses Headbutt and breaks Sub. Sticky Barb damages Primeape
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, Spidops uses Counter, Sticky Barb latches onto Spidops

Damage dealt: 30

Lvl 37 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 35 0 HP / 0 Def Spidops: 17-20 (17.5 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
Possible damage amounts: (17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 20)
Lvl 37 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 35 0 HP / 0 Def Spidops: 32-38 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (32, 32, 33, 33, 33, 34, 34, 34, 35, 35, 36, 36, 36, 37, 37, 38)

Spidops potentially takes 19 damage from Rage Fist and 11 damage from Sticky Barb. Sticky Barb damage did not proc Rage Fist BP increase.

Level 37 86 Atk Primeape vs Level 34 62 Def Tropius

Turn 1: Tropius uses Wide Guard, Primeape uses Substitute. Black Sludge damages Primeape
Turn 2: Primeape uses Rage Fist, Tropius uses Whirlwind and fails (cringe)

Damage dealt: 23

Lvl 37 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 34 0 HP / 0- Def Tropius: 20-24 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
Possible damage amounts: (20, 20, 20, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22, 22, 22, 22, 23, 23, 23, 23, 24)
Lvl 37 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist vs. Lvl 34 0 HP / 0- Def Tropius: 39-46 (32.2 - 38%) -- 94% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 42, 42, 43, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45, 46)

Black Sludge does not proc Rage Fist BP increase.

Level 35 88 Atk Primeape vs Level 91 176 Def Tinkaton (Status Condition applied)

Tinkaton Thunder Wave'd Primeape. Primeape hit itself in confusion. Rage Fist did 9 damage.

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (50 BP) vs. Lvl 91 0 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 8-10 (2.8 - 3.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Rage Fist (100 BP) vs. Lvl 91 0 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 15-18 (5.3 - 6.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Possible damage amounts: (15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 18)

Neither Statusing it nor it hitting itself in confusion proc'd the Rage Fist BP increase.
Sidenote: Primeape used Thrash on Tinkaton. Switch'd out into Flutter Mane, Primeape used Thrash. Did not damage since Flutter Mane is Ghost-type, but Primeape also did not end up getting confused.

Don't have a Pokemon with Defog, so I can't test the Defog interaction yet, but from what I tested so far, only direct damage contributes from other Pokemon contributes to Rage Fist BP increase. razorsharp3000

Does recoil damage proc Rage Fist? I don't think I've seen that checked yet.

 

[kenniky]

Can multiple Tatsugiri activate Commander on the same Dondozo? (Say a Tatsugiri activates Commander and then faints while the Dondozo is not fainted)

 

[TheTraininator]

Wanted to mess around with this a bit.
Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous Orb no longer form change them. It's now Adamant Crystal, Lustrous Globe, and Griseous Core that do.

The Origins can be hacked to hold other items. They retain the full effects of those items. They can trick items, even their "new Orbs." They don't transform mid-battle if they lose their Orbs. You can Knock Off them as well. Fling fails, though.

Not relevant for Smogon, but changing to a different item in the overworld in Origin will revert them to altered, even if they weren't holding their transformation item. Giving them their proper item while in Origin form and holding a hacked item keeps them in Origin form, no transformation animations required.

So two questions: one, am I to understand that the Origins can’t hold any items other than their Cores without hacking ala how Giratina-O had to hold Griseous Orb in previous gens? Two, do the cores provide the same 20% damage boost to both STABs that the orbs provided? Because if the former is true and the latter is not, this is a direct nerf to Giratina-O.

 

[DarkFE]

Can multiple Tatsugiri activate Commander on the same Dondozo? (Say a Tatsugiri activates Commander and then faints while the Dondozo is not fainted)

Just tested this. You can't send in a Tatsugiri to activate Commander again if another Tatsugiri has already activated Commander with the same Dondozo prior to fainting while hidden in the Dondozo's mouth. Commander can trigger with the Dondozo once more if the Dondozo somehow exits the battle and re-enters despite its switching restriction, such as by means of Revival Blessing.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

Hello, just wondering if this is correct that protosynthesis boost doesnt get ignored by unaware

 

[Mathy]

(snip)

Looking at Test 3 here I'd like to propose a hypothesis that Cud Chew does not activate at all on berries that do nothing.

Try flinging a Pecha on a non-poisoned Farigiraf, then poisoning it the next turn. Does it eat the Pecha again via Cud Chew to cure poison? Does flinging an EV berry proc Cud Chew at all?

 

[Lectrys]

Hi. Two more results that may prove useful.

I can happily report that the Ability Shield does block Neutralizing Gas for its holder! The alert comes up saying "(Pokemon)'s Ability is protected by the effects of its Ability Shield!" and when tested Gale Wings continued to grant priority to Brave Bird on Ability Shield Talonflame at full HP as expected. Also tested without the Ability Shield to ensure that Neutralizing Gas was functioning normally, and it properly prevented the priority boost of full HP Gale Wings when no Ability Shield was held by Talonflame.


Flying-type Tera Blast appears to not be priority boosted by full HP Gale Wings. Tested against several wild Pokemon both on the initial turn of Terastallizing Talonflame and on subsequent turns. Other Flying-type moves such as Brave Bird are still priority boosted at full HP as expected while Terastallized.

Thanks a ton for this! I'd like two more questions from this earlier post of mine accelerated; one mainly for Gen 9 Pure Hackmons and the other for the post-Home OU meta:

• Does the Ability Shield item prevent your ability from being changed and/or suppressed/bypassed by any or all of these moves and abilities?
  • Gastro Acid
  • Worry Seed
  • Skill Swap
  • Neutralizing Gas
  • Core Enforcer
  • Mold Breaker
• I'd like confirmation about whether Good As Gold blocks the following opposing status moves, some of which Magic Bounce reflects, others which it (at least effectively) doesn't block:
  • Taunt
  • Encore
  • Trick
  • Defog
  • Pain Split
  • Stealth Rock
  • Corrosive Gas
  • Skill Swap
  • Gastro Acid
  • Parting Shot
  • Memento
  • Whirlwind
  • Heal Pulse
  • Strength Sap
  • Perish Song
  • Tidy Up
  • Court Change

• Does the Ability Shield prevent your ability from being bypassed by opposing Mold Breaker? What about Teravolt or Turboblaze?
• Does Good As Gold block Court Change?

 

[Count Bleck]

Thief/Covet: Earlier in the datamine thread, it was noted that Thief and Covet can steal items and put them directly in your bag. A good quality of life change to be sure, but it begs the question: Can items be "stolen" in a PVP setting if the user has an item of their own?

 

[Shurtugal]

Hello, just wondering if this is correct that protosynthesis boost doesnt get ignored by unaware

This should be correct. Protosynthesis do not work like a normal stat boost, they're sort of independent. (You can boost to +6 while under the benefits of Protosynthesis). I think it works sort of like the legendary quad's abilities, where your base stat is being boosted, but it's independent of a boosting that unaware blocks. Someone better than me could give a better answer, but that's my understanding of it

 

[Timey]

Thief/Covet: Earlier in the datamine thread, it was noted that Thief and Covet can steal items and put them directly in your bag. A good quality of life change to be sure, but it begs the question: Can items be "stolen" in a PVP setting if the user has an item of their own?

I checked afterward and Covet/Thief doesn't work if you have already have a held item, even against wild mons.

 

[Fragmented]

Not sure if this is known, but Gigaton Hammer cannot be used twice in a row, which is to say that if you used it before being put to sleep, you can't use it immediately upon waking up, nor can you select to use while you are asleep.

edit: Sleep Talk will ignore the "cannot be used twice in a row" condition, but Gigaton Hammer cannot be selected if it was the last move used.
So basically, Comatose Sleep Talk Gigaton Hammer is a valid strat in hackmons.