Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[Ema Skye]

Is Commander a replaceable ability (affected by Skill Swap, Trace, etc.)? Given its uniqueness, I feel like it probably isn't, but Showdown is implementing it as replaceable and so would like confirmation.

 

[DaWoblefet]

The message for Chilly Reception plays even if the user is fast asleep, or doesn't execute the move because of Taunt or something (see footage). Not pictured in the footage, but using Chilly Reception as the last Pokemon left, with nothing to switch to, still sets snow just fine.

Zaggyo finds that the Unnerve Desync glitch still exists in the game. Confirming myself with English footage.

 

[CakeyD]

Does the Commander ability activate in Tera Raids if an ally uses Tatsuguri while another has Dondozo?

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. Two more results to answer some questions here.

Is it known whether Electromorphosis activates from confusion damage? Confusion damage counts as a direct attack according to Magic Guard and Disguise, but not according to Sand Spit (I think). What does Electromorphosis treat it as?

Electromorphosis does not activate on confusion damage.

Is Commander a replaceable ability (affected by Skill Swap, Trace, etc.)? Given its uniqueness, I feel like it probably isn't, but Showdown is implementing it as replaceable and so would like confirmation.

Skill Swap and Role Play both fail when used on a Tatsugiri with the Commander Ability.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

also found out by accident , but is it known that quark drive isnt affected by gastro acid ? not sure about other ability changing moves etc

 

[razorsharp3000]

How do Quark Drive/Protosynthesis break ties if the 2 max stats are the same?

Anubis has dug into the internals of Loaded Dice and Population Bomb, so here is a writeup.

Population Bomb checks accuracy for each hit, like Triple Kick and Triple Axel. Loaded Dice causes it to only run the first accuracy check, and rolls the number of hits as 10 minus a random integer from 0 to 6 inclusive.

Just to confirm, if you give Maushold Skill Link, then does Population Bomb hit 10 times always after the initial 90% accuracy check?

 

[TheMantyke]

Perhaps this was a bit of a long shot but, regrettably, the super sitrus berries still care about your actual base nature and not the nature you minted into. Neutral natures minted to what you actually want are still objectively superior to the actual normal nature itself.

Edit: Tiny little interaction not worth it's own post, but apparently if you hit a Pokemon with Seed Sower with Ice Spinner, the terrain doesn't stick around.

discovery vid

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595044595783827457

 

[Shurtugal]

I can confirm Doodle doesn't work on Zero to Hero (I had Palafin & Grimm against Doodle mon + Slaking on cart). I'd need someone to double check but it kept failing, so I'm assuming they had no valid target (prankster Doodle failing vs Grimm, and failing vs Zero to Hero)

 

[Worldie]

How do Quark Drive/Protosynthesis break ties if the 2 max stats are the same?

Empyrical tests seem to show it works same as Beast Boost, aka goes in index order (atk > def > spatk > spdef > speed)

 

[Ruft]

Apologies if this has already been answered, since it has already been asked a few times, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this question: does the Substitute that is passed with the use of Shed Tail have 1/4 of the Shed Tail user's max HP (as it's implemented on PS right now) or does it have 1/2 of its max HP? With Cyclizar being on the OU council's radar this would be important information to have.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

A veeery minor (or maybe not, considering the reactions) discovery, but if Outrage is disrupted on the first turn due to a Fairy-type switch-in, the user immediately becomes Confused. In older gens, the move would just be disrupted and no confusion would be afflicted.

I did not test other disruption possibilities (missing, etc) but I believe they work the same.

 

[Fragmented]

Apologies if this has already been answered, since it has already been asked a few times, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this question: does the Substitute that is passed with the use of Shed Tail have 1/4 of the Shed Tail user's max HP (as it's implemented on PS right now) or does it have 1/2 of its max HP? With Cyclizar being on the OU council's radar this would be important information to have.

Not a rigorous test, but I tried.

Mons used:
85 HP Cyclizar
41 Def Komala
Wild 36 Atk Capsakid with Razor Leaf and Bullet Seed

Lvl 22 0 Atk Cacnea Razor Leaf vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0+ Def Komala: 13-16
Lvl 22 0 Atk Cacnea Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0+ Def Komala: 21-27 (7 to 9 damage per hit)

Test 1: Shed Tail into Komala, substitute tanked 2 Bullet Seed hits and a Razor Leaf before breaking, potential total damage taken: 27 - 34
Test 2: Shed Tail into Komala, substitute broke after Critical Hit from Razor Leaf, potential total damage taken: 19 - 24
Test 3: Shed Tail into Komala, substitute broke after 3 Bullet Seed hits, one of which was a crit, potential total damage taken: 24 - 31

I'm doing the total damage summation mentally, so might have some errors there. A 50% HP sub would have 42 HP, 25% HP sub would have 21 HP, so it seems like Shed Tail subs are still 25% HP.

edit:

A veeery minor discovery, but if Outrage is disrupted on the first turn (can it even be called a disruption tbh) due to a Fairy-type switch-in, the user immediately becomes Confused. In older gens, the move would just be disrupted and no confusion would be afflicted.

Also can confirm this, happened in a raid where Primeape evo got confused after using Outrage on my Flutter Mane

 

[DHR-107]

Apologies if this has already been answered, since it has already been asked a few times, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this question: does the Substitute that is passed with the use of Shed Tail have 1/4 of the Shed Tail user's max HP (as it's implemented on PS right now) or does it have 1/2 of its max HP? With Cyclizar being on the OU council's radar this would be important information to have.

From a very brief rest with Lucario it seems the sub takes 50% HP, but its only 25% HP in size.

Lv 65 Orthworm with 182hp lost 91hp for the sub

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595078473252769792

Then we had Lucario use a level 54 Iron Hands Seismic Toss which broke it in 1 hit (which would mean it is less than 54hp in size)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595078411579691011

Not perfect for 25%, but it would make sense for it to be that size - it also would not have broken if it was 1/3rd HP either (60hp)

EDIT -

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595083670809120768

Tested again with Level 42 Primeape with SToss - did not break the same sub.

 

[Mathy]

A veeery minor discovery, but if Outrage is disrupted on the first turn (can it even be called a disruption tbh) due to a Fairy-type switch-in, the user immediately becomes Confused. In older gens, the move would just be disrupted and no confusion would be afflicted.

does the same happen if it's blocked by Protect, misses on semi-invuln, etc?

 

[awesomelink234]

I did tests on Koraidon's Attack boost from Orchalcum Pulse!

My methodology was as follows: I saved in front of a level 53 Veluza (A Psychic / Water) that had a Defense stat of 86. My Koraidon (Fighting / Dragon) had an Attack stat of 209 at level 68. I would use Collision Course (a 100 BP Fighting move), then capture the Veluza and see how much HP it had lost. Here are the raw results below

Raw Damage Output

138
132
133
138
132
122
120
125
130
123
126
129
136
130
123
128

The range from these 15 tests was 120 HP at the lowest, to 138 HP at the most

This seems sorta close to a 1.3x Attack boost to me? At the very least, it certainly does NOT match 1.5x, its lower than that!

Yep, those rolls line up with a 1.3x Attack boost! Presumably actually 5325/4096, like GF likes to do since Gen 5. And yes, I checked, those rolls specifically would only occur with an Attack boost, not a base power or damage boost (i.e. Life Orb).

 

[razorsharp3000]

IIRC Last Respects has a BP cap of 250. Does Rage Fist have a similar BP cap?

 

[awesomelink234]

How much does snow boost the Defense of Ice-types? I'm assuming 50%, like sandstorm does for the SpDef of Rock-types?

 

[Fragmented]

Does rage fists power still get boosted if annihilape is behind a sub and the sub was the one that got hit but not annihilape itself?

IIRC Last Respects has a BP cap of 250. Does Rage Fist have a similar BP cap?

I have pictures now. Tested with 81 Atk Primeape and 52 Def Deino

Primeape Stats

Deino Stats

These are the calcs for Rage Fist on Deino:

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (50 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 11-13 (10.8 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (100 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 21-25 (20.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 64-75 (63.3 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These are the tests done:

control test: Attack with Rage Fist without getting damaged
test 1: Sub up first, get Sub broken, Attack with Rage Fist
test 2: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 1 time
test 3: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 2 times
test 4: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 6 times
test 5: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 10 times

Deino's HP after getting hit by Rage Fist:

control test: 90/101
test 1: 89/101
test 2: 78/101
test 3: 67/101
test 4: 26/101
test 5: 17/101

You can view the pictures for the same results.

Deino's Health or lack there of

No hit

Sub hit

1 hit

2 hits

6 hits

10 hits

Conclusion:

• Rage Fist BP increase scales similarly to Last Respects (+50 for each hit taken)
• Damage dealt to a Substitute does not increase Rage Fist's BP
• There is a BP cap to Rage Fist (probably 300 edit: looks to be 350)

 

[razorsharp3000]

I have pictures now. Tested with 81 Atk Primeape and 52 Def Deino

Primeape Stats

View attachment 467852

Deino Stats

View attachment 467853

These are the calcs for Rage Fist on Deino:

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (50 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 11-13 (10.8 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (100 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 21-25 (20.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 64-75 (63.3 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These are the tests done:

control test: Attack with Rage Fist without getting damaged
test 1: Sub up first, get Sub broken, Attack with Rage Fist
test 2: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 1 time
test 3: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 2 times
test 4: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 6 times
test 5: Attack with Rage Fist after getting damaged 10 times

Deino's HP after getting hit by Rage Fist:

control test: 90/101
test 1: 89/101
test 2: 78/101
test 3: 67/101
test 4: 26/101
test 5: 17/101

You can view the pictures for the same results.

Deino's Health or lack there of

View attachment 467855 No hit
View attachment 467856 Sub hit
View attachment 467857 1 hit
View attachment 467858 2 hits
View attachment 467859 6 hits
View attachment 467860 10 hits

Conclusion:

• Rage Fist BP increase scales similarly to Last Respects (+50 for each hit taken)
• Damage dealt to a Substitute does not increase Rage Fist's BP
• There is a BP cap to Rage Fist (probably 300)

Huh, so it does seem like it caps at 300 then, thanks! :) Idk where but I read somewhere that the move BP for Rage Fist/Last Respects would get capped when it reaches 255, so I thought would stop at 250 itself (or maybe 255) and not 300 BP. But maybe once the BP crosses 255 it can't increase any further.
So does this mean Last Respects also caps at 300 BP and not 250? It's probably confirmed in an earlier comment but I can't find it.

Edit: Also, while we are on the topic of Last Respects, just to confirm, if one of your Pokemon gets revived courtesy of Revival Blessings/a Revive in game, does Last Respects reduce in Power?

 

[Givrix]

Does Clear Amulet block Haze?

 

[Fragmented]

Huh, so it does seem like it caps at 300 then, thanks! :) Idk where but I read somewhere that the move BP for Rage Fist/Last Respects would get capped when it reaches 255, so I thought would stop at 250 itself (or maybe 255) and not 300 BP. But maybe once the BP crosses 255 it can't increase any further.
So does this mean Last Respects also caps at 300 BP and not 250? It's probably confirmed in an earlier comment but I can't find it.

Actually, looking at the damage dealt to Deino, the BP cap for Rage Fist is looking more like 350 BP than 300 BP. The final pic has Deino HP at 17, so it received 101 - 17 = 84 points of damage, which would fall within the second calc. Someone else should probably test this to confirm.

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 64-75 (60.3 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (350 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 74-88 (69.8 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edit: Also, while we are on the topic of Last Respects, just to confirm, if one of your Pokemon gets revived courtesy of Revival Blessings/a Revive in game, does Last Respects reduce in Power?

Tried testing the Houndstone thing while I was doing the Rage Fist test by sacrificing and reviving Wigletts repeatedly, and can confirm that revived team mates do not reduce Last Respects BP (Deino just straight up died).

 

[razorsharp3000]

Actually, looking at the damage dealt to Deino, the BP cap for Rage Fist is looking more like 350 BP than 300 BP. The final pic has Deino HP at 17, so it received 101 - 17 = 84 points of damage, which would fall within the second calc. Someone else should probably test this to confirm.

Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 64-75 (60.3 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 35 0 Atk Primeape Shadow Punch (350 BP) vs. Lvl 41 0 HP / 0 Def Deino: 74-88 (69.8 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hmm you're right, it can't be 300 based on that damage calc. 350 BP seems like a very arbitrary cap, but yes based on the damage calcs:
300 BP: 63.3 - 74.2% (64-75)
350 BP: 73.2 - 87.1% (74-88)
400 BP: 84.1 - 99% (85-100)
84 points of damage i.e. 83.17% seems to suggest that it can't be 300 or 400 BP.
Also, in your test 4, where Primeape was damaged 6 times, the damage is 75 points. That could be a high roll 300 or a low roll 350 BP. But it does support the possibility of a 350 BP cap as the BP of Rage Fist after 6 hits would be 50 + 50*6 = 350 BP.
Still, it would be nice for others to test it out as well and give us further confirmation.

Tried testing the Houndstone thing while I was doing the Rage Fist test by sacrificing and reviving Wigletts repeatedly, and can confirm that revived team mates do not reduce Last Respects BP (Deino just straight up died).

So regarding the Last respects test, does this mean if you keep Reviving mons and fainting them you can keep increasing the Last Respects BP unlimitedly? Or is there a cap for that as well? I guess since Deino died if there is a cap it would be more than 400 BP at the very least.

This is how PS implements the 2 moves at the moment:

Definitely worth some research to confirm what exactly happens.

 

[Mari]

A veeery minor (or maybe not, considering the reactions) discovery, but if Outrage is disrupted on the first turn due to a Fairy-type switch-in, the user immediately becomes Confused. In older gens, the move would just be disrupted and no confusion would be afflicted.

I did not test other disruption possibilities (missing, etc) but I believe they work the same.

Can someone confirm that for similar cases like Petal Dance and Sap Sipper?

 

[Fragmented]

Can someone confirm that for similar cases like Petal Dance and Sap Sipper?

Attacking a Sap Sipper mon with Petal Dance does not cause the Petal Dance user to become confused.

Hmm you're right, it can't be 300 based on that damage calc. 350 BP seems like a very arbitrary cap, but yes based on the damage calcs:
300 BP: 63.3 - 74.2% (64-75)
350 BP: 73.2 - 87.1% (74-88)
400 BP: 84.1 - 99% (85-100)
84 points of damage i.e. 83.17% seems to suggest that it can't be 300 or 400 BP.
Also, in your test 4, where Primeape was damaged 6 times, the damage is 75 points. That could be a high roll 300 or a low roll 350 BP. But it does support the possibility of a 350 BP cap as the BP of Rage Fist after 6 hits would be 50 + 50*6 = 350 BP.
Still, it would be nice for others to test it out as well and give us further confirmation.



So regarding the Last respects test, does this mean if you keep Reviving mons and fainting them you can keep increasing the Last Respects BP unlimitedly? Or is there a cap for that as well? I guess since Deino died if there is a cap it would be more than 400 BP at the very least.

This is how PS implements the 2 moves at the moment:

View attachment 467871

View attachment 467872
Definitely worth some research to confirm what exactly happens.

Last Respects Testing Results

Houndstone Stats

Tests 1 to 7 used a 115 Def Level 60 Zweilous, Test 8 used a 94 Def Level 58 Zweilous because I forgot to buy a Toxic Orb.

Test 1: No Wigletts Sacrificed (153/163) - 10 damage dealt
Test 2: 1 Wiglett Sacrificed (143/163) - 20 damage dealt
Test 3: 2 Wigletts Sacrificed (134/163) - 29 damage dealt
Test 4: 2 Houndstones and 2 Wigletts Sacrificed (120/163) - 43 damage dealt
Test 5: Memento Tatsugiri and Wiglett on a crit (woops) (121/163) - 42 damage dealt
Test 6: Memento Tatsugiri and Wiglett (134/163) - 29 damage dealt
Test 7: 9 Wigletts Sacrificed (70/163) - 93 damage dealt

Potential number of teammates that can faint in a 6v6 singles game is 9 (2 Revival Blessing users with Leppa Berry)

Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (50 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 9-11 (5.5 - 6.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (100 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 17-21 (10.4 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (150 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 26-31 (15.9 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 51-61 (31.2 - 37.4%) -- 87% chance to 3HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (450 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 78-92 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO (8 deaths)
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (500 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 86-102 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (9 deaths)

Test 8: Toxic Orb Primeape and Wiglett (125/158) - 33 damage dealt

Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (150 BP) vs. Lvl 58 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 32-38 (20.2 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Test Results

86 Atk Houndstone vs 115 Def Zweilous

0 Sacrifices (read as Wiglett)

1 Wiglett

2 Wiglett

1 Tatsugiri Memento + 1 Wiglett

1 Tatsugiri Memento + 1 Wiglett on a Critical Hit

2 Houndstones + 2 Wigletts

9 Wiglett


86 Atk Houndstone vs 94 Def Zweilous

Toxic Orb Primeape + Wiglett

Sorry for the clutter. Here's the conclusion I drew:

• Last Respects BP increases by 50 for each Pokemon that faints on your team (expected)
• Last Respects BP increases when your own Pokemon intentionally faints themselves
• Last Respects BP increases when your own Pokemon faints to status (Toxic, Burn)
• The user's own fainting count towards the Last Respects BP increase
• There is no potential hard cap to Last Respects maximum BP

The Pokemon Showdown code looks correct in this regard. The fact that Houndstone's own KO counts towards the BP increase is kind of funny.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Attacking a Sap Sipper mon with Petal Dance does not cause the Petal Dance user to become confused.



Last Respects Testing Results

Houndstone Stats

View attachment 467875

Tests 1 to 7 used a 115 Def Level 60 Zweilous, Test 8 used a 94 Def Level 58 Zweilous because I forgot to buy a Toxic Orb.

Test 1: No Wigletts Sacrificed (153/163) - 10 damage dealt
Test 2: 1 Wiglett Sacrificed (143/163) - 20 damage dealt
Test 3: 2 Wigletts Sacrificed (134/163) - 29 damage dealt
Test 4: 2 Houndstones and 2 Wigletts Sacrificed (120/163) - 43 damage dealt
Test 5: Memento Tatsugiri and Wiglett on a crit (woops) (121/163) - 42 damage dealt
Test 6: Memento Tatsugiri and Wiglett (134/163) - 29 damage dealt
Test 7: 9 Wigletts Sacrificed (70/163) - 93 damage dealt

Potential number of teammates that can faint in a 6v6 singles game is 9 (2 Revival Blessing users with Leppa Berry)

Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (50 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 9-11 (5.5 - 6.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (100 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 17-21 (10.4 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (150 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 26-31 (15.9 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (300 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 51-61 (31.2 - 37.4%) -- 87% chance to 3HKO
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (450 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 78-92 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO (8 deaths)
Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (500 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 86-102 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (9 deaths)

Test 8: Toxic Orb Primeape and Wiglett (125/158) - 33 damage dealt

Lvl 40 0 Atk Banette Shadow Punch (150 BP) vs. Lvl 58 0 HP / 0+ Def Zweilous: 32-38 (20.2 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Test Results

86 Atk Houndstone vs 115 Def Zweilous

View attachment 467876
0 Sacrifices (read as Wiglett)

View attachment 467877 1 Wiglett
View attachment 467878 2 Wiglett
View attachment 467879 1 Tatsugiri Memento + 1 Wiglett
View attachment 467880 1 Tatsugiri Memento + 1 Wiglett on a Critical Hit
View attachment 467882 2 Houndstones + 2 Wigletts
View attachment 467883 9 Wiglett


86 Atk Houndstone vs 94 Def Zweilous

View attachment 467884
Toxic Orb Primeape + Wiglett

Sorry for the clutter. Here's the conclusion I drew:

• Last Respects BP increases by 50 for each Pokemon that faints on your team (expected)
• Last Respects BP increases when your own Pokemon intentionally faints themselves
• Last Respects BP increases when your own Pokemon faints to status (Toxic, Burn)
• The user's own fainting count towards the Last Respects BP increase
• There is no potential hard cap to Last Respects maximum BP

The Pokemon Showdown code looks correct in this regard. The fact that Houndstone's own KO counts towards the BP increase is kind of funny.

Does this also work with Supreme Overlord in the same way?