Oh God, not another Wobbuffet discussion!

Bologo said:
Really, Wobbuffet can only really switch in once or twice in the match, because it really does take a lot of damage from attacks, especially when there's stuff like Spikes/Stealth Rock up. If Spikes and Stealth Rock are both up, Wobbuffet's going to be taking 37.5% each time he switches in, which severely neuters his ability to take hits and actually do that Encoring.

What does Wobbuffet do if he accidentally gets a sub in his face because he tried to Counter or Mirror Coat?
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That's assuming you go all out and attack. I just faced one and it was rather annoying to face if your Pokemon needs to stat-up to hit hard enough (aka not a Choice user).

tmt = Iggybot?

I just faced you. <_<

My Bulkydos only did 70% with Waterfall after 4 DDs. =/
 
Little Green Yoda said:
That's assuming you go all out and attack. I just faced one and it was rather annoying to face if your Pokemon needs to stat-up to hit hard enough (aka not a Choice user).

tmt = Iggybot?

I just faced you. <_<

My Bulkydos only did 70% with Waterfall after 4 DDs. =/
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Oh, that was you? You had the match won anyways, I was down 1-3 with Wobbuffet left. But yeah, I was surprised I survived that Waterfall as well. I'm using that account because I'm just testing how Wobbuffet does on it's own without support.
 
Yeah, but tell me, how many times was that Wobbuffet able to switch in? Be honest, I really don't know how many times it can truly switch in well. I know it's not many times with passive damage, but without passive damage, I'm not really sure.
 
Well, the first battle Wobbuffet came in on Raikou very easily. Though I lost the battle because I was trying to outlast Encore but his Smeargle Nasty Passed to a Yanmega that took out a good chunk of my team. How many turns is Encore supposed to last anyway?

The second battle, I sorta took advantage of the fact I already knew his team so I just took out everything but Wobbuffet until the end. Wobb still managed to revenge kill my CBGross though.
 
It all depends. I don't switch Wobbuffet into really heavy hitters, since I'm trying to set up. I normally switch Wobbuffet into something like Bronzong, Slowbro, ect. and Encore whatever attack they use, Safeguard if nesecary, and switch out to set up. Smeargle BP'ing to Deoxys-E is just......nasty. Then again, if I switch Wobbuffet into the wrong attack, it can end up getting 3HKO'd (I'm smart enough to at least avoid 2HKO's)
 
Little Green Yoda said:
Well, the first battle Wobbuffet came in on Raikou very easily. Though I lost the battle because I was trying to outlast Encore but his Smeargle Nasty Passed to a Yanmega that took out a good chunk of my team. How many turns is Encore supposed to last anyway?

The second battle, I sorta took advantage of the fact I already knew his team so I just took out everything but Wobbuffet until the end. Wobb still managed to revenge kill my CBGross though.
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Yeah, trying to outlast Encore is a terrible idea in D/P, since it got an upgrade and lasts 4-8 turns now.
 
Well that explains it lol. I keep thinking it's 2-5 turns. So an improved Encore doesn't help Wobby make its case for OU. I'll probably keep using my regular team to see just how much it affects the current metagame.
 
Bologo said:
Really, Wobbuffet can only really switch in once or twice in the match, because it really does take a lot of damage from attacks, especially when there's stuff like Spikes/Stealth Rock up. If Spikes and Stealth Rock are both up, Wobbuffet's going to be taking 37.5% each time he switches in, which severely neuters his ability to take hits and actually do that Encoring.

What does Wobbuffet do if he accidentally gets a sub in his face because he tried to Counter or Mirror Coat?
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We would either encore or switch out.
 
get a Crobat with Mean Look and Nasty Plot.
There it goes Wobbuffet...and a entire team basically(the ones without Blissey,of course):pirate:
Seriously,this thing isn't hard to counter...and it can serve as a set-up food for someone
I say it's OU(well,it's only me or any Uber doesn't gave me any problems?(except Giratina...damn,it's sturdy...))
 
I wonder if Swampert could get mean look and encore, and the Swampert had egg moves mirror coat and counter *Can actually get those two*, would Swampert be considered UBER? what do you think? - Also is there any pokemon with good defenses and hp that learns mean look, counter, mirror coat and encore? :s
 
Qyyu said:
I wonder if Swampert could get mean look and encore, and the Swampert had egg moves mirror coat and counter *Can actually get those two*, would Swampert be considered UBER? what do you think? - Also is there any pokemon with good defenses and hp that learns mean look, counter, mirror coat and encore? :s
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The difference between that and Wobbuffet, is that Wobbuffet doesn't need Mean Look to trap the pokemon, it automatically traps whatever it comes in on.
 
Heh, I just battled a Wobbuffet for the first time, and you know what? I actually thoroughly enjoyed the guessing game and the mini prediction-tiff that came with it. It added to the tension in the battle, and actually made things exciting for me for once. I'm usually just battling these annoying Sand Veil Garchomps who make the game really un-fun, it's not even a guessing game with Garchomp, it's just, will the 80% accuracy of my 100% accuracy move hit, or will the stupid 20% miss of my previously 0% miss kick in from Sand Veil? At least with Wobbuffet, if something goes wrong, the entire game isn't over, but against Garchomp, with one extremely stupid miss, it can sweep at a moment's notice, which is just not fun for the person on the receiving end. -.-

I dunno, I have a lot of experience using Encorers, so I guess can predict them a lot better than other types of pokemon, so that's why I don't hate Wobbuffet, but rather enjoy the spice it adds.

DX-S is a lot more of a bitch for me, because it requires me to be a lot more careful with my moves, but even that isn't as annoying as Sandstorm'd Garchomp, since it doesn't friggin swish my accuracy around and crush my team when my Ice Beam misses like 2 times, while it Swords Dances 2 times. -.-

Bleh, go Wobba.... :P
 
Didn't face a Wobbuffet team yet, but fought earlier a team with two or three Taunters; Crobat as a lead and fucking Spiritomb.

Thank God I had Yanmega for Spiritomb, I hate that bitch -_- But, if Wobbuffet is deemed as OU, I'm going to face a lot of them...
 
Here is the warstory Zerowing wrote about his matches in the first wifi tournament with wobbufet in it. A lot of the posts agree that wobbufet should be banned.
War Story
 
I just read that entire thread. There 30 something posts and only about 8 people seemed to say "it should stay uber". That doesn't really seem like a lot of posts. I also can't exactly imagine that enough people used Wobbuffet in that tourney anyway.

I just had one of those Smeargle-Wob combos used on me, and I countered it perfectly fine. All I really needed was a priority move user for Smeargle, and to outpredict Wobba, and then I was fine.

I'm thinking that Wobbuffet dominated in that tournament because very few people actually KNEW it was allowed. It wasn't called the "Wobbuffet testing tournament", it was actually a very subtle detail that Wobbuffet wasn't in the banned list from what I saw in that thread. Therefore, that isn't sufficient testing.
 
Of course, if it were announced, people would say that everybody took the precaution to pack an extra anti-Wobb Pokemon and that skewed the results. -_-

And while I'm not really in favor of Wobb being OU, I've been more frustrated with all the freakin' U-turn teams people are trotting out in fear of Wobb than Wobb teams themselves.
 
Bologo said:
I'm thinking that Wobbuffet dominated in that tournament because very few people actually KNEW it was allowed. It wasn't called the "Wobbuffet testing tournament", it was actually a very subtle detail that Wobbuffet wasn't in the banned list from what I saw in that thread. Therefore, that isn't sufficient testing.
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So? Even if most of the people didn't know they could use wobbufet that shows that the people with wobbufet did dominate the tourney. Both Bluekatani and Zerowing had it and reading his match stories not a lot of people seemed to have it.
 
sandman said:
So? Even if most of the people didn't know they could use wobbufet that shows that the people with wobbufet did dominate the tourney. Both Bluekatani and Zerowing had it and reading his match stories i don't think anyone else had it.
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Ok, I understand that, but think about this example:

If Garchomp was uber before the tourney, but then he was let in on a very subtle detail, and only 2 people bothered to use him, wouldn't they dominate the tournament too?

My point is, when the threat of a dangerous pokemon like Wobbuffet isn't at least informed by everyone, and as a result, they don't take it into account at all when they build their teams because they think it's banned, of course it's going to dominate. After all, it's important to take all allowed threats into consideration, but when people don't know, then of course they're going to get beaten by the sheer surprise.

Going back to my example, if Garchomp was uber before the tourney and people did not know that they had to prepare for it because of subtlety in the rules, then like I said with Wobbuffet, people would be dominated by the sheer surprise from it, since they did not take it into consideration at all when they had made their teams.

Just think about that, because that's how I feel about the Wobbuffet dominance in that tourney, because there was no preparation, and we all know, that preparation for major threats, both offensive and defensive can make or break a team.
 
How do you prepare a team for wobbuet though? You can't switch anything into it so there are no real counters except for switching something in after wobbufet does kill something?
 
Well, if people knew it was allowed at the time, I suspect they might have put either a sleeping move, U-Turn, Baton Pass, Shed Shell (item clause helps this case), Pursuit, Worry Seed, Taunt, or Toxic on at least one of their moveslots. More people would've used Spiritomb as well (immune to Mirror coat and Counter). Racking up more passive damage with Spikes/Stealth Rock would've done wonders as well. (Do remember that the mentality of D/P at that time was offense offense offense, so people didn't abuse passive damage as much)

Plus, another way to prepare for it, is to look for certain combos that may come about with Wobbuffet, such as the Smeargle-Wobbuffet combo. There's also that WobZard combo as well. People would've been able to study up on these combinations a lot more, and therefore would have a greater grasp for what to do if it executes its moves with success. For example, a priority move for Smeargle, or quick Encore to shut down whatever it's pulling.

That kind of stuff is the way to prepare for Wobbuffet, and the studying up of combinations of pokemon and such, is something that should be done for all main threats. Eg. SkarmBliss. but if people don't know it's allowed, they can't really be expected to do that stuff, which is why I just feel that people were kinda uninformed.
 
I'm pretty sure a lot of people will boycott shoddy for a while just for show.

Hell, I boycotted Shoddy when they ruined Choice Scarfers. This however, does not even need justification. I'm saying Wobbuffet is still fucking broken is deserved the ban hammer that he had 3 years ago. If the metagame is not broken, don't fix it; if it's more trouble than its worth then it is not worth it. Wake the fuck up and smell what you are shoveling in your ass.

Wobbuffet even have Wish, I remember it being a NYPC move. Whatever, I don't give three shits on what shoddy does anymore. Test all the things you want, but the result for Wobbuffet will be the same as I say it is, because there are people that are actually smart enough to know a thing is broken when you see it is. I rather sit on my ass and wait for competitor so I can wait for people with common sense run the show.

Now here comes a Smogon Joke: "Keep this shit up, and your server will be as empty as the area between your legs."
 
Clear, I think you're going to seriously have to show some proof of Wobbuffet getting Wish as an NYPC move, because I believe that's absolutely wrong.

Wynaut got Tickle as an NYPC move, but that was about it.

If you have some actual proof of Wobbuffet getting Wish as an NYPC move, then by all means, show us.
 
Bologo said:
Clear, I think you're going to seriously have to show some proof of Wobbuffet getting Wish as an NYPC move, because I believe that's absolutely wrong.

Wynaut got Tickle as an NYPC move, but that was about it.

If you have some actual proof of Wobbuffet getting Wish as an NYPC move, then by all means, show us.
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I think I saw it in smogon, and even on netbattle that Wynaut got Wish as a NYPC moves.

I want you to know that Wobbuffet is more trouble than its worth. Saying to even unban Wobb is like saying unbanning Double Team. Even without wish, yes it has counters, but most of them are too specific and have a lasting effect on the metagame. Look at Deoxys-E, great! Now all Choice Scarfers are useless, enjoy getting stuck with one move at a time and getting your ass kicked before you can because Deoxys is the fastest piece of shit ever to rip popular CSers like Azelf, Chomp, Starmie, just to name a few, like tissue paper. Best of all, it can CHOOSE his moves with Life Orb! Who wouldn't want that?

You want a reason why it deserves to stay banned? Simple, cause it is fucking Wobbuffet. It will switch in to whoever he wants to kill that he can. And he CAN do it. There is no ifs, there is no buts. Explain how would Spiritomb counter Wobb when I don't switch in against it. Does the entire metagame need to run fucking U-turns, Shed Shit, Baton Pass, Taunt so we can accomidate dildo head here? Fuck no, we don't need that. The game is balanced as it is until Shoddy's "Revolution" went and fuck it all up.

If it is not broken, don't fix it.

Having battled Wobby teams now, and discussing it on Shoddy, I have come to conclude that it should indeed be banned.
Shadow Tag+ Encore =setup

And Wobby makes your own setups impossible. It can basically neutralize everything, and it can always switch out of a Spiritomb for something else. Also, Colin showed no basis or reasonable argument for unbanning Wobby. It was funny, because as people battles with and against Wobby, we all said it was unbalancing, his response was "why?"

when we told him why, explained Wobby's advantages and unbalanced-ness, all he could say was "so should Trapinch be banned? It can trap." and "What is so damning about a poke being uncounterable?"

It was freakin hilarious. I may not use Shoddy anymore, because it is run by a dumbass who doesn't even play pokemon...Why does he run Shoddy again?

Anyhow, Wobby certainly unbalances a lot, makes setup impossible, and centralized the metagame...Uber again please!
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From last page, got cut off by me, QFT.
 
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