I think Typhlosion itself tarnished its reputation, being an meh copy of Charizard and all.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I think Typhlosion itself tarnished its reputation, being an meh copy of Charizard and all.
L take typhlosion is my scrimblo bimbo and i love them. ratio
A discussion about typhlosion obviously!What have I started?
Frankly, I do believe that, flames or not, the whole line looks pretty good. The progression of the line isn't rly all that drastic, but it's functional enough!
sry for getting sidetracked but I rly wanted to get this unpopular opinion off my chest
Still made they made Chiko green after the anime, when OG was yellowA discussion about typhlosion obviously!
Frankly, I do believe that, flames or not, the whole line looks pretty good. The progression of the line isn't rly all that drastic, but it's functional enough!
Still kinda inferior to the chikorita line tho just look at them.
sry for getting sidetracked but I rly wanted to get this unpopular opinion off my chest
Makes Bayleef suddenly the odd one out
I have an original and perhaps unpopular opinion. Lapras 
should be a Dragon - Ice type Pokémon, instead of Water - Ice.
If I were ignorant of Lapras' actual type, and asked to guess what type I think it is based only on its design, Psychic, Rock, and especially Dragon would be just as likely to come to my mind as Water or Ice.
In beta versions of Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue, Lapras was named Ness after the Loch Ness monster. Dragon type Pokémon are usually rarer (the Ness monster's existence is unconfirmed) and more powerful (Lapras' Base Stat Total is on par with the likes of Porygon-Z, Rhyperior, and Duraludon) than other Pokémon. In Generation I artwork, Lapras is shown bearing teeth that it loses in later games. Lapras may have been meant to be a more menacing creature, which would better suit a Dragon Pokémon. Lapras being Dragon type would have helped RBY's in-game balance, though not drastically. In RBY, only three Dragon type Pokémon existed, those being Dratini and its evolution family. Other Water - Ice type Pokémon already existed in the game, such as Cloyster and Dewgong.
As early as Gen II, Lapras was capable of learning Dragon type moves, such as Dragon Breath. Since then, it has gained options in Dragon Pulse and Dragon Dance, among others. Lapras also has a type diverse move pool, one which includes Hyper Beam, Charm, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Drill Run, and Megahorn.
A Lapras is used by the Unova Pokémon League Champion Iris, who specializes in Dragon type Pokémon. Even the non-Dragon Pokémon she uses, Lapras, Aggron, and Archeops if you squint, have slightly draconic designs. Red's Pokémon team would have no type overlap if Lapras was a Dragon - Ice type. This is nitpicky, but I personally prefer when Champions have type diverse teams, and moreso in Red's case because he is the original, ultimate Pokémon trainer.
Some players would say that Lapras should be a Water Pokémon instead, as Lapras nearly always appears in water in other Pokémon media and has Pokedex entries that detail how Lapras lives in water. Several other Pokémon make habitats in and have lore concerning water environments, and they are not Water type. Examples include Dragonite (Dragon - Flying), Lugia (Psychic - Flying), Dragalge (Poison - Dragon), Dhelmise (Ghost - Grass) and Grapploct (Fighting).
should be a Dragon - Ice type Pokémon, instead of Water - Ice.If I were ignorant of Lapras' actual type, and asked to guess what type I think it is based only on its design, Psychic, Rock, and especially Dragon would be just as likely to come to my mind as Water or Ice.
In beta versions of Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue, Lapras was named Ness after the Loch Ness monster. Dragon type Pokémon are usually rarer (the Ness monster's existence is unconfirmed) and more powerful (Lapras' Base Stat Total is on par with the likes of Porygon-Z, Rhyperior, and Duraludon) than other Pokémon. In Generation I artwork, Lapras is shown bearing teeth that it loses in later games. Lapras may have been meant to be a more menacing creature, which would better suit a Dragon Pokémon. Lapras being Dragon type would have helped RBY's in-game balance, though not drastically. In RBY, only three Dragon type Pokémon existed, those being Dratini and its evolution family. Other Water - Ice type Pokémon already existed in the game, such as Cloyster and Dewgong.
As early as Gen II, Lapras was capable of learning Dragon type moves, such as Dragon Breath. Since then, it has gained options in Dragon Pulse and Dragon Dance, among others. Lapras also has a type diverse move pool, one which includes Hyper Beam, Charm, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Drill Run, and Megahorn.
A Lapras is used by the Unova Pokémon League Champion Iris, who specializes in Dragon type Pokémon. Even the non-Dragon Pokémon she uses, Lapras, Aggron, and Archeops if you squint, have slightly draconic designs. Red's Pokémon team would have no type overlap if Lapras was a Dragon - Ice type. This is nitpicky, but I personally prefer when Champions have type diverse teams, and moreso in Red's case because he is the original, ultimate Pokémon trainer.
Some players would say that Lapras should be a Water Pokémon instead, as Lapras nearly always appears in water in other Pokémon media and has Pokedex entries that detail how Lapras lives in water. Several other Pokémon make habitats in and have lore concerning water environments, and they are not Water type. Examples include Dragonite (Dragon - Flying), Lugia (Psychic - Flying), Dragalge (Poison - Dragon), Dhelmise (Ghost - Grass) and Grapploct (Fighting).
Again, wholeheartedly disagreed with Grapploct regarding not having Water-type because of SwSh already introducing a lot of mono Fighting Pokémon, thus making Clobberpus and Grapploct standing out less than it would if it is Fighting / Water among the SwSh-introduced Fighting mons. Sure, there’s Rapid Strike Urshifu, but then that makes two lines of new Figthing / Water compared to three mono Fighting Pokémon lines.I have an original and perhaps unpopular opinion. Lapras
If I were ignorant of Lapras' actual type, and asked to guess what type I think it is based only on its design, Psychic, Rock, and especially Dragon would be just as likely to come to my mind as Water or Ice.
In beta versions of Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue, Lapras was named Ness after the Loch Ness monster. Dragon type Pokémon are usually rarer (the Ness monster's existence is unconfirmed) and more powerful (Lapras' Base Stat Total is on par with the likes of Porygon-Z, Rhyperior, and Duraludon) than other Pokémon. In Generation I artwork, Lapras is shown bearing teeth that it loses in later games. Lapras may have been meant to be a more menacing creature, which would better suit a Dragon Pokémon. Lapras being Dragon type would have helped RBY's in-game balance, though not drastically. In RBY, only three Dragon type Pokémon existed, those being Dratini and its evolution family. Other Water - Ice type Pokémon already existed in the game, such as Cloyster and Dewgong.
View attachment 472656
As early as Gen II, Lapras was capable of learning Dragon type moves, such as Dragon Breath. Since then, it has gained options in Dragon Pulse and Dragon Dance, among others. Lapras also has a type diverse move pool, one which includes Hyper Beam, Charm, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Drill Run, and Megahorn.
A Lapras is used by the Unova Pokémon League Champion Iris, who specializes in Dragon type Pokémon. Even the non-Dragon Pokémon she uses, Lapras, Aggron, and Archeops if you squint, have slightly draconic designs. Red's Pokémon team would have no type overlap if Lapras was a Dragon - Ice type. This is nitpicky, but I personally prefer when Champions have type diverse teams, and moreso in Red's case because he is the original, ultimate Pokémon trainer.
Some players would say that Lapras should be a Water Pokémon instead, as Lapras nearly always appears in water in other Pokémon media and has Pokedex entries that detail how Lapras lives in water. Several other Pokémon make habitats in and have lore concerning water environments, and they are not Water type. Examples include Dragonite (Dragon - Flying), Lugia (Psychic - Flying), Dragalge (Poison - Dragon), Dhelmise (Ghost - Grass) and Grapploct (Fighting).
I definitely won’t mind if Lapras were Ice / Dragon, though there’s always a middle ground by making a more monstrous Ice / Dragon Lapras.
Really like this opinion because Ice/Dragon has been so underutilised as a typing until ScVi but it would have been a colossal waste in Gen I since Dragon sucked back then. All other things being equal, though, Ice/Dragon Lapras would have been so good in Gen II.
For better or worse, Dragon was very specifically reserved for the Dratini line in gen I. Lapras could very well have originally been envisioned as a Water/Dragon (Ice/Dragon seems less likely), but changed later on as the game's development progressed.
The new regional bird must have been inspired by THUNDER ARMOR SWALLOW. You can't convince me otherwise.
Arceus, the god of all Pokemon; omnipotent deity able to transcend time and space. It is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It created knowledge, willpower, and emotion. It oversees all living things and is well-beyond the scope of 3D.
Let's talk about Arceus. Specifically, the way Arceus was showcased. Let's compare Arceus's established lore in canon with how it was handled in the Gen 4 games, anime, and manga!
Here's how Arceus was treated throughout all of Gen 4. Here we go!
The movie
Arceus
Is omnipotent.
Is responsible for the creation of the entire universe and all of its aspects.
Created the entire universe.
Xerneas can do the same without needing a plate...
GRASS-TYPE POKEMON CAN DO THE SAME WITHOUT NEEDING A PLATE.
The games
Arceus
Is God of all Pokemon
The manga
Arceus
Was responsible for humanity's creation and encourages people to bond with Pokemon.
In 2009, Pokemon changed Arceus's pronunciation from Ar-see-us to Ar-key-us. This was to avoid English speakers from seeing Arceus as the butt of jokes as the former pronunciation had the sound "arse" in it. While I believe they succeeded with the pronunciation, they failed to treat Arceus as anything BUT a complete arse. I made this post as memey as possible to emphasize that Arceus was treated as nothing more than a parody. I thoroughly believe Gen 4 Arceus had to have been most mistreated Pokemon throughout all of series history. Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, and the lake trio were close. They were all similarly mishandled in ways that make Zygarde feel lucky to have not been involved in any plot at all. I sincerely hope we never get another a case this badly mishandled ever again.
Let's talk about Arceus. Specifically, the way Arceus was showcased. Let's compare Arceus's established lore in canon with how it was handled in the Gen 4 games, anime, and manga!
Here's how Arceus was treated throughout all of Gen 4. Here we go!
The movie
Arceus
Is omnipotent.
- Sacrificed its life to create an orb.
- Nearly died to a meteor.
- Needed to be saved by a man and a 10 year old kid on separate occasions.
- Gets defeated by silver water.
- Gets fooled by humanity
- Went on an animalistic rampage in pursuit to destroy humanity.
- Initiated destruction by randomly firing beams towards buildings.
- Gets stalled out by 10 year old kids.
Created the entire universe.
- Needs to rely on five plates to make land flourished.
Xerneas can do the same without needing a plate...
GRASS-TYPE POKEMON CAN DO THE SAME WITHOUT NEEDING A PLATE.
The games
Arceus
Is God of all Pokemon
- Gets denied the release of its Azure Flute.
- Gets reduced to a Toys "R" Us giveaway.
- Gets distributed with an EV cap of 100 per stat.
- Gets dubbed as Farceus.
- Gets its event based on the movie.
The manga
Arceus
Was responsible for humanity's creation and encourages people to bond with Pokemon.
- Is the antagonist.
In 2009, Pokemon changed Arceus's pronunciation from Ar-see-us to Ar-key-us. This was to avoid English speakers from seeing Arceus as the butt of jokes as the former pronunciation had the sound "arse" in it. While I believe they succeeded with the pronunciation, they failed to treat Arceus as anything BUT a complete arse. I made this post as memey as possible to emphasize that Arceus was treated as nothing more than a parody. I thoroughly believe Gen 4 Arceus had to have been most mistreated Pokemon throughout all of series history. Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, and the lake trio were close. They were all similarly mishandled in ways that make Zygarde feel lucky to have not been involved in any plot at all. I sincerely hope we never get another a case this badly mishandled ever again.
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Thank you. I probably need to think harder about what might be seen as an unpopular opinion. It is strange to think about obtaining a Dragonite, and not being able to annihilate your foes with Dragon Dance and Outrage or Dragon Claw.
Do you have evidence of this, beyond the fact that Dratini's family are the only Dragon types in Generation I? Between all of the pseudo-dragons that players encounter in RBY, I would think at least some other Dragon type Pokémon were planned.
Gyarados
In Japanese media, even creation gods very rarely depicted as omnipotent or infallible. This is due to the lack of any extremely prominent monotheistic religion having a major impact on their history or culture. In fact quite often beings close to the western idea of creation deities are often depicted as being either apathetic to the happenings of the mortal world post-creation, or are major control freaks that want to stamp out anyone and anything wanting to work against their teachings.
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I had always taken Arceus to be less a confirmed Omnipotent being and more akin to a high tier Legendary that some texts allude to or revere as a God-level being. In particular my mind is there because we have other Pokemon whose power can go past Arceus, like the Primals and Mega Ray in Gen 6, but also another conceptually.
In Gen 5, Zekrom, Reshiram, and the Tao Legendary concept in general puts them on a level of reverence but also never suggests they're more than just "really powerful Dragons". Kyurem with a 660 BST vs the Dragons' 680, which becomes 700 after integrating one of them for Black/White Kyurem. Depending on which you look at as the base, theoretically bringing all 3 together into the original would be either a 720 to match or a 740 to surpass Arceus.
The Gen 4 Legendaries in general I always felt would be better contextualized as Beings with strong control over the concepts moreso than their embodiments. We already had Legendaries with Time Travel like Celebi as a precedent for Dialga at least, and the Lake Trio would be more extreme versions of certain regular Pokemon having power over Emotions or Minds.
In fairness to the Game performance, didn't Farceus, even with the EV Cap, eventually end up in the Gen 4 equivalent of AG even with that limitation?
Legends pretty much revealed that the fence llama we see is nothing but a small aspect of the entire being. Which would makes sense with stuff like the dex entries saying it created the world with its 1000 arms, when the design of its avatar for the mortal plane doesn't have any arms at all.
Also revealed that legendaries pretty much allow kids to let them catch them because it's only like a century-long(at most) side gig for an immortal being.
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Reminds me of Volgon from Temtem, which is one of that game's equivalent of legendaries. Its Tempedia entry is really interesting:
Like with a lot of legendary PokéDex entries, it uses wording that doesn't outright state the myths are true, and explains why these highly-powerful beings would let humans command them. Now that I think about it, legendaries weren't explicitly god-like until Gen 3...
Like with a lot of legendary PokéDex entries, it uses wording that doesn't outright state the myths are true, and explains why these highly-powerful beings would let humans command them. Now that I think about it, legendaries weren't explicitly god-like until Gen 3...
Personally I’ve never really considered Arceus and its cohorts to actually be omnipotent shapers of the universe, largely because I feel like once you have a detailed, iron-clad account of how everything was made and why it all exists, it all just seems rather boring. I think it’s a lot more intriguing and fun for the imagination if all the Sinnoh lore is just one culture’s way of looking at things, and is an incomplete picture even on its own terms.
Like, there’s no doubting that these are incredibly powerful beings that can control fundamental forces. But I think it’s a lot more interesting if, rather than just being objective gods of a pantheon, the reality of them is something more inscrutable to human understanding. (For example, there’s an event-only NPC in Platinum who theorizes that Arceus might be the “physical form” of the original spirit within people and Pokémon.) In fact, I was kind of surprised by how restrained Legends: Arceus was in this regard, as I was fully prepared to see like, a slideshow flashback to Arceus hatching from its egg and birthing the universe and such, but instead, Arceus just… asks us to complete the Pokédex, for reasons it never really elaborates on. The people who actually worshiped Arceus (rather than mistaking it for Dialga and Palkia) are long-gone, and their civilization is in ruins, thereby keeping any potential “truth” at a further remove. The Celestica tribe’s sole surviving members, Cogita and Volo, are allowed to remain cryptic and enigmatic instead of being exposition dispensers. It’s something I really liked that about the game overall.
Like, there’s no doubting that these are incredibly powerful beings that can control fundamental forces. But I think it’s a lot more interesting if, rather than just being objective gods of a pantheon, the reality of them is something more inscrutable to human understanding. (For example, there’s an event-only NPC in Platinum who theorizes that Arceus might be the “physical form” of the original spirit within people and Pokémon.) In fact, I was kind of surprised by how restrained Legends: Arceus was in this regard, as I was fully prepared to see like, a slideshow flashback to Arceus hatching from its egg and birthing the universe and such, but instead, Arceus just… asks us to complete the Pokédex, for reasons it never really elaborates on. The people who actually worshiped Arceus (rather than mistaking it for Dialga and Palkia) are long-gone, and their civilization is in ruins, thereby keeping any potential “truth” at a further remove. The Celestica tribe’s sole surviving members, Cogita and Volo, are allowed to remain cryptic and enigmatic instead of being exposition dispensers. It’s something I really liked that about the game overall.
The very fact that there are several Pokémon that could have been Dragon types but are not Dragon types is evidence for this. Beyond that, as others mentioned, resisting the "starter types" (usual starters + Electric) and being exclusively used by Lance among enemy trainers make it evident that Dragon is an intentionally "strong" type. Dragonite also has the highest BST of all gen I Pokémon outside of Mewtwo.
Gyarados was named specifically, and I'd like to emphasize on this one. In gen I Gyarados had a BST of 480 compared to Dragonite's 500. The legendary birds are 485-495. The next highest after that is 455 for Exeggutor and Arcanine. Gyarados used to be a lot stronger comparatively than it is now. And Dragon would have been a much more obvious choice for it than Flying. But, Dragon Rage was the only Dragon move in the game. Water/Dragon had no weaknesses in gen I. That could have been a reason for Gyarados being Water/Flying instead, instead of just being reserved specifically for the Dratini line. Hard to say which would have come first. But it's quite safe to say if any other gen I Pokémon was ever planned to be a Dragon besides Dratini, it would have been Gyarados.
(Begin humor) Obviously, the meteor was "It's super effective!". Do you think that Arceus is an exception just because it created the universe? Nonsense! Do you know anything about Pokémon? (End humor)
I did not know that Dragonair and Dragonite were used exclusively by Lance, thank you for pointing this out.
This is a topic change, but I've genuinely never understood why people make out like being a Pokemon master is something unknowable.
Quoting Bulbapedia's article on the matter:
Pokémon Master (Japanese: ポケモンマスター Pokémon Master) is a title in the Pokémon world. It is the goal of many Pokémon Trainers to become a Pokémon Master. However, exactly what this position is and how one attains it is vague and never fully explained.
In response to an email sent to its mailbag, Pokémon.com posted the following:
I get why the Pokemon Company would be reluctant to define it in such terms - it may be that the very fact that people were curious enough to ask made them decide "yeah, let's string this out." However, I’ve honestly never seen why it’s supposed to be such a mysterious and undefined goal.
The early anime does admittedly muddy the waters with Ash (and the narration) declaring that he will catch every Pokemon and thus become a Pokemon master. However, even back then it was always my interpretation that this is the metric by which Ash himself judges will make him a Pokemon master - it's not a concrete "obtain all 151 Pokemon and you're golden", otherwise any wealthy person could do it with relative ease, and Gary gets explicitly called out for catching over 100 Pokemon but not taking the time or effort to bond with them and raise them all.
To me it’s pretty clear that to be a Pokemon master is simply to be an elite. Analogous to someone who’s reached the peak of their profession in any other field. Someone whose mastery of Pokemon battling, raising, and/or knowledge is so extensive that they’re considered one of the best. They don’t necessarily *have* to be an Elite Four member or a champion, it's just that a lot of them are - but we've seen trainers in the games and anime who absolutely should count as master trainers who often have no particular position or rank. No, it’s just being incredibly good at what you do - akin to being an Olympic athlete or a chess prodigy.
This is why Ash thinks that forging a special relationship with every species of Pokemon there is (and to give him his due, he has shown that he's really good at drawing out the potential of pretty much any Pokemon he catches) is what will make him a master. That's his personal ultimate goal. He has also always wanted to be a fantastic battler and achieve recognition for his prowess in combat but that's ultimately concomitant with his primary goal of catching them all, despite the direction of the recent anime. But I haven't seen most of Journeys so I won't expound too much on something I still need to be more familiar with.
But to circle back. What a Pokemon master is may not ever have been fully or properly explained, but I don't think it's something that is difficult to deduce when you look at everything the series has told us so far.
Quoting Bulbapedia's article on the matter:
Pokémon Master (Japanese: ポケモンマスター Pokémon Master) is a title in the Pokémon world. It is the goal of many Pokémon Trainers to become a Pokémon Master. However, exactly what this position is and how one attains it is vague and never fully explained.
In response to an email sent to its mailbag, Pokémon.com posted the following:
I get why the Pokemon Company would be reluctant to define it in such terms - it may be that the very fact that people were curious enough to ask made them decide "yeah, let's string this out." However, I’ve honestly never seen why it’s supposed to be such a mysterious and undefined goal.
The early anime does admittedly muddy the waters with Ash (and the narration) declaring that he will catch every Pokemon and thus become a Pokemon master. However, even back then it was always my interpretation that this is the metric by which Ash himself judges will make him a Pokemon master - it's not a concrete "obtain all 151 Pokemon and you're golden", otherwise any wealthy person could do it with relative ease, and Gary gets explicitly called out for catching over 100 Pokemon but not taking the time or effort to bond with them and raise them all.
To me it’s pretty clear that to be a Pokemon master is simply to be an elite. Analogous to someone who’s reached the peak of their profession in any other field. Someone whose mastery of Pokemon battling, raising, and/or knowledge is so extensive that they’re considered one of the best. They don’t necessarily *have* to be an Elite Four member or a champion, it's just that a lot of them are - but we've seen trainers in the games and anime who absolutely should count as master trainers who often have no particular position or rank. No, it’s just being incredibly good at what you do - akin to being an Olympic athlete or a chess prodigy.
This is why Ash thinks that forging a special relationship with every species of Pokemon there is (and to give him his due, he has shown that he's really good at drawing out the potential of pretty much any Pokemon he catches) is what will make him a master. That's his personal ultimate goal. He has also always wanted to be a fantastic battler and achieve recognition for his prowess in combat but that's ultimately concomitant with his primary goal of catching them all, despite the direction of the recent anime. But I haven't seen most of Journeys so I won't expound too much on something I still need to be more familiar with.
But to circle back. What a Pokemon master is may not ever have been fully or properly explained, but I don't think it's something that is difficult to deduce when you look at everything the series has told us so far.
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