Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Goodbye & Thanks]

On the top of Shed Tail, I feel Cyclizar is more of the issue than the move itself. Cyclicar was pretty much tailor-made to abuse this move; Regenerator, high Speed, Taunt to block phazing, Rapid Spin to remove hazards for itself, even gets Knock Off and U-turn for more salt on the wound. Orthworm, although it's a pretty cool mon, doesn't feel nearly as powerful with the move and can only ever get one ST off a game at best. The EQ immunity is nice, though, but not enough.

I just wanted to say that I completely agree with this, but I was wondering if anyone has much experience with Shed Tail Orthworm? Shed Tail is obviously ridiculous, but Cyclizar feels tailor-made to abuse it, due to the reasons you outlined (primarily Regenerator). However, if Cyclizar wasn’t in the tier, would Orthworm on Screens HO still be able to enable some of the bigger threats? I personally feel like it wouldn’t be too much of an issue since on its own, Orthworm isn’t very good and its lack of recovery would greatly limit how often it could Shed Tail (unless it was some weird Rest-Talk set with it or something, and that would be exploitable by an opponent and would require luck to work anyway), but it’s difficult to say with certainty at this time with there not really being a reason to use Orthworm over Cyclizar.

Also, I agree with Finch’s view that the main problem with Screens/HO at the moment is mainly some of the abusers like Annihilape, Espathra, and Chi-Yu and I feel like the viability of HO will decrease if/when the tier settles and certain mons are banned. However, it does lead to the question about at what point is Screens/Shed Tail no longer a problem and instead, the abusers are? For example, if those three mons I mentioned get banned (I’m not necessarily saying that they should, either, but I personally would like to see them all go), is it possible that Shed Tail/Cyclizar isn’t much of a problem? I know that theorycrafting like this is pointless and I try to avoid it, but I’m just trying to say that I think that the order in which certain mons potentially get tested could matter a lot, specifically in regards to what enables sweepers/breakers and the sweepers/breakers themselves. I hope that thought was cogent.

 

[Bold School]

I just wanted to say that I completely agree with this, but I was wondering if anyone has much experience with Shed Tail Orthworm? Shed Tail is obviously ridiculous, but Cyclizar feels tailor-made to abuse it, due to the reasons you outlined (primarily Regenerator). However, if Cyclizar wasn’t in the tier, would Orthworm on Screens HO still be able to enable some of the bigger threats? I personally feel like it wouldn’t be too much of an issue since on its own, Orthworm isn’t very good and its lack of recovery would greatly limit how often it could Shed Tail (unless it was some weird Rest-Talk set with it or something, and that would be exploitable by an opponent and would require luck to work anyway), but it’s difficult to say with certainty at this time with there not really being a reason to use Orthworm over Cyclizar.

Also, I agree with Finch’s view that the main problem with Screens/HO at the moment is mainly some of the abusers like Annihilape, Espathra, and Chi-Yu and I feel like the viability of HO will decrease if/when the tier settles and certain mons are banned. However, it does lead to the question about at what point is Screens/Shed Tail no longer a problem and instead, the abusers are? For example, if those three mons I mentioned get banned (I’m not necessarily saying that they should, either, but I personally would like to see them all go), is it possible that Shed Tail/Cyclizar isn’t much of a problem? I know that theorycrafting like this is pointless and I try to avoid it, but I’m just trying to say that I think that the order in which certain mons potentially get tested could matter a lot, specifically in regards to what enables sweepers/breakers and the sweepers/breakers themselves. I hope that thought was cogent.

In my experience, Orthworm more heavily punishes slower or more passive playstyles. For instance, it can switch into Clodsire without fear and set up a free Shed Tail. The only thing then stopping a sweep would be the Unaware mons, but it's not so easy because a lot of the best set up sweepers still get tools to deal with them and get extra free hits with the half health sub. I also just mentioned how one of the main Unaware mons, Clodsire, is setup fodder for Orthworm. Alternatively, Othworm could simply Shed Tail into a powerful wallbreaker or even something like Chi-Yu which can brute force its way through most defensive cores.

The point is that when you aren't playing HO, it's much easier for Orthworm to get off multiple Shed Tails. I believe this is just another factor which helps contribute to this overly offensive Meta. Cyclizar is the worst abuser of the two. But Othworm's abuse potential is certainly underrated.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

The only thing then stopping a sweep would be the Unaware mons, but it's not so easy because a lot of the best set up sweepers still get tools to deal with them and get extra free hits with the half health sub.

What do you mean by “half health sub?” I thought that the sub created by Shed Tail was still a normal 1/4 HP sub. Also, as an aside, I guess that I may not fully understand the Shed Tail mechanic; the sub’s HP is 1/4 of the passer (Cyclizar or Orthworm, who happen to have the same base HP of 70), not the recipient, correct?

Also, how is it ever easier for Orthworm to get off multiple Shed Tails than it is for Cyclizar? At most, Orthworm should only get 2 passes off in a game, and that would be if it was holding a Sitrus Berry and somehow didn’t take over 25% chip besides the HP lost in passing. The vast majority of the time, Orthworm should only get one pass off. Sure, it’s possible that Orthworm could get off more than 2 passes if it’s a Rest-Talk or Resto-Chesto set, neither of which sound great, although Chesto might not be horrible, it switches into an Earthquake/Ground attack, but that shouldn’t really happen, or you pass a wish to it, which is difficult without many viable Wish passers. Seeing as Cyclizar just takes 17% from passing, thanks to Regenerator, it normally gets off at least 2 passes and often 3 if it’s Sitrus.

 

[Bold School]

What do you mean by “half health sub?” I thought that the sub created by Shed Tail was still a normal 1/4 HP sub. Also, as an aside, I guess that I don’t fully understand the Shed Tail mechanic; the sub’s HP is 1/4 of the passer (Cyclizar or Orthworm, who happen to have the same base HP of 70), not the recipient, correct?

You have to use half your total health to make the sub for Shed Tail. With regular Substitute, you only use 1/4th of your total health. The health used to make the Subs is put into it.

Also, how is it ever easier for Orthworm to get off multiple Shed Tails than it is for Cyclizar?

It's not. That isn't what I was saying. I literally said Cyclizar is the worse abuser. The point was that Orthworm can still abuse it and Shed Tail is the problem. To be blunt, I don't even think Cyclizar would be OU without Shed Tail.

At most, Orthworm should only get 2 passes off in a game, and that would be if it was holding a Sitrus Berry and somehow didn’t take over 25% chip besides the HP lost in passing. The vast majority of the time, Orthworm should only get one pass off. Sure, it’s possible that Orthworm could get off more than 2 passes if it’s a Rest-Talk or Resto-Chesto set, neither of which sound great, although Chesto might not be horrible, it switches into an Earthquake/Ground attack, but that shouldn’t really happen, or you pass a wish to it, which is difficult without many viable Wish passers. Seeing as Cyclizar just takes 17% from passing, thanks to Regenerator, it normally gets off at least 2 passes and often 3 if it’s Sitrus.

Reread my initial comment because I literally explained all of this. The Meta is flooded with HO, but more passive pokemon often get taken advantage of by Orthworm. One Shed Tail can win you the game with all the insanely powerful offensive threats running around. This contributes to slower playstyles being less competitive. It's not by any means the only reason. But I believe it is a factor.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You have to use half your total health to make the sub for Shed Tail. With regular Substitute, you only use 1/4th of your total health. The health used to make the Subs is put into it.

Shed Tail costs 50% HP to use, but the sub only has 25% the HP of the user.

 

[Bold School]

Shed Tail costs 50% HP to use, but the sub only has 25% the HP of the user.

Really? I wasn't aware of this. I've been under the assumption that the health put into the Sub was the same.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

You have to use half your total health to make the sub for Shed Tail. With regular Substitute, you only use 1/4th of your total health. The health used to make the Subs is put into it.



It's not. That isn't what I was saying. I literally said Cyclizar is the worse abuser. The point was that Orthworm can still abuse it and Shed Tail is the problem. To be blunt, I don't even think Cyclizar would be OU without Shed Tail.



Reread my initial comment because I literally explained all of this. The Meta is flooded with HO, but more passive pokemon often get taken advantage of by Orthworm. One Shed Tail can win you the game with all the insanely powerful offensive threats running around. This contributes to slower playstyles being less competitive. It's not by any means the only reason. But I believe it is a factor.

Yeah, like DrPumpkinz said, it’s still just a normal sub coming off of a base 70 HP stat; it just costs half of your health to make/pass it instead of 1/4.

Regarding your second and third responses, I think I was just initially confused by your syntax. I thought that you were saying that Orthworm has an easier time passing multiple times against bulky teams than Cyclizar does, but I get now that you meant that Orthworm has an easier time passing multiple times against bulky teams than it does against HO. I agree with you that while Cyclizar is better than Orthworm against essentially any team structure, Orthworm does better against bulky teams than it does against HO. I still don’t really see how Orthworm is going to ever get off more than one pass reliably unless it’s like Resto-Chesto or something and is facing a slower team, but I guess there would be more room to experiment with it if something is done with Cyclizar (which I’m also not sure if it will be). Even if Cyclizar goes and Orthworm can only get off one pass per game most of the time, I wonder if that would be enough to still facilitate that playstyle. It would likely depend on the other potential recipients left in the meta but it isn’t worth speculating about some theoretical future meta, so I’ll end this here.

 

[MeddlinKidz]

I was considering adding a Glaceon to my in game team, but this thread has killed any interest I had in that. Glaceon has been NU or lower every generation it has been in the game. That is not going to change regardless of how excited two posters are. A slow, specially attacking ice with poor coverage (sans Tera Blast) is not going to have much impact in any meta that has mons packing fire, fighting, or rock coverage...which is all of them.

To make this more relevant, how have people been running Garganacl? I have only tried two sets so far (Ghost Curse and Fighting Curse BP) which have both put in work. I never expected to have this much success with a bulky rock type that wasn't TTar. I have really been enjoying this mon.

 

[1LDK]

Ghost Curse

eyooo
am i reading this right? tera ghost curse? how? explain

 

[Vengeance417]

To make this more relevant, how have people been running Garganacl? I have only tried two sets so far (Ghost Curse and Fighting Curse BP) which have both put in work. I never expected to have this much success with a bulky rock type that wasn't TTar. I have really been enjoying this mon.

Are you using another attacking move that isn't Salt Cure? You might just be better off running Iron Defense over Curse. Plus, if you're running Tera Ghost Curse, you'll inflict damage on yourself when using it (unless the passive damage is what you're after, and even then, Salt Cure provides that for you without the drawback of losing 50% health).

 

[Dakem]

I feel like I have few problems with the existance of Annihilape (Rage Fist more than him TBH). If we put him in a vacuum I guess he's not as problematic, but if we add Screens + Tera + Momentum he become a huge problem.

His type could be countered, but with "Tera" he could easily Tera-Water since there is no phisical-electric (Exept for Iron Hands).

He's a 110-80-90 defensive-wise. The combo of that stat + Screens could be problematic, but it's even more problematic considering Rage Fist.

He could switch in in every momentum move, as U-Turn or Volt Switch, and boost his Rage Fist.

The whole idea of chipping down it goes out of the window when you are boosting it's stab move.
He's not an easy win button, because he still have his flaws, as to be bulky as he need to be he need to not be as invested in speed as a 90 Base Speed mons should be and once he's burn he's kinda done.

Honestly, I think some gen 9 mechanics are made for comeback or with a "good plan" in mind.
Last resort from the ghost doggo is clearly a comeback mechanic. Rage Fist is a comeback mechanic. Supreme Overlord is a comeback mechanic.

Supreme Overlord is the less offensive comeback mechanics in Gen9 and I'm probably missing something too.

Annihilape could definitely stike fear in the game decision, since every move that doesn't kill him or just every move that chip down become a huge Ape boost.

Is that good? Is that bad? Not my role to decide it, but that's my opinion on Rage Fist.

(Honestly Ape will be good without Rage Fist but with Poltergeist, since with Screens up, you have the opportunity to bulk up and hitting hard.)

 

[Bold School]

Second, I hate Eevee and I hate all the Eevee Evolution Pokémon.
I have never used any Eevee or Eevee Evolution Pokémon in a Pokémon battle.

I decided the only way to truly know if Glaceon is bad or good is to do an investigation for myself.
“Master Player” inspired me to do an independent Investigation & Evaluation of Glaceon.

If you never used any of them, how did you "investigate" Glaceon? Did you actually come to any of your conclusions without testing it? Or am I just being confused by your phrasing?

They were advertised as “Girly” Pokémon and I’m a guy.
I try to use Pokémon which look more ”Manly”.

You truly are the gift that keeps on giving. While I don't see why it matters so much that a guy would have pokemon that give off "girly" vibes or vice versa, you can do whatever you want. However, Eevee's gender ratio is literally 87.5% male and only 12.5% female. This is the second funniest thing you've said so far.

 

[BlackKnight_Gawain]

Second, I hate Eevee and I hate all the Eevee Evolution Pokémon.
I have never used any Eevee or Eevee Evolution Pokémon in a Pokémon battle.
They were advertised as “Girly” Pokémon and I’m a guy.
I try to use Pokémon which look more ”Manly”.

fellas, is it gay to use eeveelutions?

(also, I hope you never find out the Machamp line can be female, it might kill you)

 

[BlackKnight_Gawain]

To make this more relevant, how have people been running Garganacl? I have only tried two sets so far (Ghost Curse and Fighting Curse BP) which have both put in work. I never expected to have this much success with a bulky rock type that wasn't TTar. I have really been enjoying this mon.

Honestly, you don't go wrong with just Standard IDBP + Salt Curse, that alone just scares away so many things with the right tera typing. I know the Curse set's really taken off since Curse + Salt Cure is crazy passive damage, but I personally liked running Tera Water/Fairy for those resists. Roaring Moon in particular doesn't like Tera Fairy since the Steel Moon's dipped a bit in use.

 

[Vengeance417]

I'm fairly convinced the G***eon guy is trolling. Might be best to just stop responding to them tbh, it's derailing the conversations we're trying to have.

Vibe Check (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Draining Kiss
- Nuzzle
- Calm Mind

Another Pokemon that I think is doing really well this gen is Hatterene, especially when using Nuzzle. Scarf Gholdengo hates coming in only to be paralyzed, as well as other fast threats like Scarf Chi-Yu, Dragapult, Chien-Pao, etc. Tera Water is nice to withstand Make It Rain, Tera Steel Iron Heads, Fire-type moves from Chi-Yu, and the Rain matchup gets a lot better when the opponent's Water moves become resisted. Just need to watch for stuff like Salt Cure. Having Magic Bounce in this hazard-stacking meta is also super nice. Most of the time, you don't even have to bring Hatterene out against a hazard or status move user since the looming threat of it being bounced back is more than enough for the opponent to think twice about using them. Great mon. Speed is for Pex although I don't really see any around, so you might as well just go max Def.

 

[Local Dog]

Jesus christ can we add some filter or something for Glaceon for like a week or something, this is getting out of hand

 

[Critaquil]

I'm fairly convinced the G***eon guy is trolling. Might be best to just stop responding to them tbh, it's derailing the conversations we're trying to have.

Vibe Check (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Draining Kiss
- Nuzzle
- Calm Mind

Another Pokemon that I think is doing really well this gen is Hatterene, especially when using Nuzzle. Scarf Gholdengo hates coming in only to be paralyzed, as well as other fast threats like Scarf Chi-Yu, Dragapult, Chien-Pao, etc. Tera Water is nice to withstand Make It Rain, Tera Steel Iron Heads, Fire-type moves from Chi-Yu, and the Rain matchup gets a lot better when the opponent's Water moves become resisted. Just need to watch for stuff like Salt Cure. Having Magic Bounce in this hazard-stacking meta is also super nice. Most of the time, you don't even have to bring Hatterene out against a hazard or status move user since the looming threat of it being bounced back is more than enough for the opponent to think twice about using them. Great mon. Speed is for Pex although I don't really see any around, so you might as well just go max Def.

Tera water seems nice, have you considered tera flying? it allows it to become immune to ground which is the only type several spikers use offensively, for example, a standard ting-lu just straight-up cannot beat hat 1v1, chomp has to rely on the unreliable dragon tail, and tusk (not a spiker but a common rocker) is no longer able to threaten you with strong ground moves. tera flying allows it to handle these hazard setters significantly better over the course of the game.

 

[Vengeance417]

Tera water seems nice, have you considered tera flying? it allows it to become immune to ground which is the only type several spikers use offensively, for example, a standard ting-lu just straight-up cannot beat hat 1v1, chomp has to rely on the unreliable dragon tail, and tusk (not a spiker but a common rocker) is no longer able to threaten you with strong ground moves. tera flying allows it to handle these hazard setters significantly better over the course of the game.

Flying's an interesting idea and I like the reasoning behind it. I might give that a try. I personally just like Water for the better Gholdengo matchup as having an extra Make It Rain switchin is always nice to have .

 

[DaemonChop]

Slither Wing is underrated. Lokix gets to have its fun pretending its a big OU gangster for now (#20 in usage btw), but when the funny double priority sheen wears off, I think people will recognize who the true First Impression master of the new generation is. Banded is hilarious.

Speaking of Lokix, we agree that there's no way it's sticking around, right? I haven't seen one in weeks. If you still use Lokix and it works well for you, what set/archetype/teammates are you using?

 

[Bold School]

Slither Wing is underrated. Lokix gets to have its fun pretending its a big OU gangster for now (#20 in usage btw), but when the funny double priority sheen wears off, I think people will recognize who the true First Impression master of the new generation is. Banded is hilarious.

Speaking of Lokix, we agree that there's no way it's sticking around, right? I haven't seen one in weeks. If you still use Lokix and it works well for you, what set/archetype/teammates are you using?

Tinted Lense is the issue. Some of my teams have had difficulty in the past for dealing with First Impression purely because of Tinted Lense. Slither Wing doesn't have this threat. To deal with Lokix, you really need a double Bug resist or something like Protect. Protect isn't great right now because of all the setup sweepers and slower play styles not being as viable.

There are some common double Bug resists in the Meta such as Gholdengo, Corvinight, Annihilape, Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, and a few Fire/Ghost mons. But it can be pretty easy to overlook this when teambuilding or become vulnerable to it after a few holes are punched in your team. On the other hand, I've never felt like I needed any sort of gameplan for Slither Wing.

 

[alephgalactus]

To make this more relevant, how have people been running Garganacl? I have only tried two sets so far (Ghost Curse and Fighting Curse BP) which have both put in work. I never expected to have this much success with a bulky rock type that wasn't TTar. I have really been enjoying this mon.

I’m glad that the Ghost Curse set is picking up a bit of steam because I kind of credit myself with inventing it (I checked and it doesn’t seem like anyone posted about it anywhere on the forums before I mentioned it here), but I still think Iron Defense + Body Press + Salt Cure + Recover with Tera Water or Fairy (depending on whether you think Gholdengo or Annihilape is going to get banned first) is the best set Garganacl can run in singles.

 

[Aurabolt]

I've been having fun against Annihilape with the old school sub/disable Gengar set. Of course you have to hope they aren't running normal terra type, but I usually see water.

 

[Player J]

If you never used any of them, how did you "investigate" Glaceon? Did you actually come to any of your conclusions without testing it? Or am I just being confused by your phrasing?

I’m sorry, but it seems the forum thread has turned hostile.
This will be the last thing I write to you about Glaceon.

All I can say to you is my investigation uncovered Glaceon to be a Bulky Ice - Wall Breaker.
I tested my theory by simulating a Pokemon Battle situation.

The Pokémon I used in the simulation was Amoongus.
Amoongus is a popular Pokémon in OU.
Amoongus is a Wall Pokémon which could see play on Stall teams.
Amoongus is a Grass/Poison Type.

Glaceon Prey’s on the following:
- Wall Pokémon
- Dragon, Flying, Grass, or Ground Types.

The Pokémon Amoongus matches the Prey criteria.
The Pokémon Amoongus is Wall & a Grass Type.

The Simulation began!
- Amoongus on the Pokemon Battle Field
- Glaceon hard switches into Amoongus

What does Amoongus do to Glaceon?
All Damage Calculators indicate it would take 5 to 6 hits for Amoongus to kill Glaceon.

0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 67-81 (20 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

A lot of people said Ice Type is bad defensive type because it only resist Ice.
The truth is the Ice Typing is irrelevant because the Pokémon you switch Glaceon into do no damage.

The only thing Amoongus could do against Glaceon is cripple it with Status Condition.
- Toxic
- Paralyze
- Sleep

Status Condition’s will not work on Glaceon because she could run the Move Rest.
The Move Rest would cancel any status condition a Pokémon like Amoongus could do.

In addition to all the above, Glaceon could threat Amoongus with very devastating attacks.

0 SpA Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 222-264 (51.3 - 61.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 174-206 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

A lot of people said Glaceon Speed at only 65 made her to slow to handle other Pokémon.
People didn’t think about the Speed “Wall” Pokémon have.

Amoongus has 30 speed
Glaceon has enough speed to run circles around Amoongus.

Furthermore, Glaceon has the move Calm Mind.
Glaceon could use Amoongus as set up fodder to not only kill Amoongus, but other Pokémon as well.
Glaceon could be very dangerous if allowed to boost up.

Ladies & Gentlemen
- I did an investigation on Glaceon stats
- I did an evaluation on Glaceon move pool
- I did a summary on what Glaceon role as Pokémon was as well as what her nature Prey might be.
- I did a Battle Simulation showing people how Glaceon would behave vs. a Pokémon which is her Prey.
- I did Test in the Simulation showing Damage Calculations to further demonstrate how Glaceon abilities to counter these Pokémon are absolute.

If your still not convinced Glaceon is Good Pokémon, Than you never will be!
Nothing anyone tells you or shows you will ever change your mind because you have created a prejudice against Glaceon.

It’s sad that a person who doesn’t even like Glaceon had to be the one to defend Glaceon.
The prejudices and hostility toward Glaceon has made the subject uncomfortable to talk about.

It’s a shame because now people will never know why Glaceon is the “Key” Pokémon for Snow Teams.
A missed discussion opportunity.

My research on Glaceon was very extensive.
I uncovered how Glaceon interacts on regular team and how Glaceon would interact on snow team.
I didn’t even get a chance to share my findings about Glaceon on a snow team.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.

 

[Napoli Burns]

I’m glad that the Ghost Curse set is picking up a bit of steam because I kind of credit myself with inventing it (I checked and it doesn’t seem like anyone posted about it anywhere on the forums before I mentioned it here), but I still think Iron Defense + Body Press + Salt Cure + Recover with Tera Water or Fairy (depending on whether you think Gholdengo or Annihilape is going to get banned first) is the best set Garganacl can run in singles.

I have seeing that set several time before u posted it, maybe even in a youtube video. I have seen talking about tera to ghost/tera to another tipe and playing with curse ghost type from several youtubers too since day 2 of game release (20 november 2022). OU Room on PS! is active 24/7 doing metagame talk.

 

[alephgalactus]

I’m sorry, but it seems the forum thread has turned hostile.
This will be the last thing I write to you about Glaceon.

All I can say to you is my investigation uncovered Glaceon to be a Bulky Ice - Wall Breaker.
I tested my theory by simulating a Pokemon Battle situation.

The Pokémon I used in the simulation was Amoongus.
Amoongus is a popular Pokémon in OU.
Amoongus is a Wall Pokémon which could see play on Stall teams.
Amoongus is a Grass/Poison Type.

Glaceon Prey’s on the following:
- Wall Pokémon
- Dragon, Flying, Grass, or Ground Types.

The Pokémon Amoongus matches the Prey criteria.
The Pokémon Amoongus is Wall & a Grass Type.

The Simulation began!
- Amoongus on the Pokemon Battle Field
- Glaceon hard switches into Amoongus

What does Amoongus do to Glaceon?
All Damage Calculators indicate it would take 5 to 6 hits for Amoongus to kill Glaceon.

0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 67-81 (20 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

A lot of people said Ice Type is bad defensive type because it only resist Ice.
The truth is the Ice Typing is irrelevant because the Pokémon you switch Glaceon into do no damage.

The only thing Amoongus could do against Glaceon is cripple it with Status Condition.
- Toxic
- Paralyze
- Sleep

Status Condition’s will not work on Glaceon because she could run the Move Rest.
The Move Rest would cancel any status condition a Pokémon like Amoongus could do.

In addition to all the above, Glaceon could threat Amoongus with very devastating attacks.

0 SpA Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 222-264 (51.3 - 61.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 174-206 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

A lot of people said Glaceon Speed at only 65 made her to slow to handle other Pokémon.
People didn’t think about the Speed “Wall” Pokémon have.

Amoongus has 30 speed
Glaceon has enough speed to run circles around Amoongus.

Furthermore, Glaceon has the move Calm Mind.
Glaceon could use Amoongus as set up fodder to not only kill Amoongus, but other Pokémon as well.
Glaceon could be very dangerous if allowed to boost up.

Ladies & Gentlemen
- I did an investigation on Glaceon stats
- I did an evaluation on Glaceon move pool
- I did a summary on what Glaceon role as Pokémon was as well as what her nature Prey might be.
- I did a Battle Simulation showing people how Glaceon would behave vs. a Pokémon which is her Prey.
- I did Test in the Simulation showing Damage Calculations to further demonstrate how Glaceon abilities to counter these Pokémon are absolute.

If your still not convinced Glaceon is Good Pokémon, Than you never will be!
Nothing anyone tells you or shows you will ever change your mind because you have created a prejudice against Glaceon.

It’s sad that a person who doesn’t even like Glaceon had to be the one to defend Glaceon.
The prejudices and hostility toward Glaceon has made the subject uncomfortable to talk about.

It’s a shame because now people will never know why Glaceon is the “Key” Pokémon for Snow Teams.
A missed discussion opportunity.

My research on Glaceon was very extensive.
I uncovered how Glaceon interacts on regular team and how Glaceon would interact on snow team.
I didn’t even get a chance to share my findings about Glaceon on a snow team.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.

That’s not how you test whether something is good. You’re supposed to actually go on ladder and try it out, not dream up a scenario in your brain where it works. People have tried using Glaceon on ladder. It’s bad. It’s been bad since Gen 4 and will always be bad. Nothing that could ever happen to Glaceon or the meta this generation would make Glaceon good. Its analysis for ZU, the lowest possible tier, last gen was exactly three words: “Don’t use Glaceon.” The only tier I can see Glaceon succeeding in is LC and it’s not allowed there. Delibird—not Iron Bundle, but actual Delibird—is probably a more viable Ice-type in OU than Glaceon right now. Hell, Snom is probably more viable because at least it’s good for a laugh.

I have seeing that set several time before u posted it, maybe even in a youtube video. I have seen talking about tera to ghost/tera to another tipe and playing with curse ghost type from several youtubers too since day 2 of game release (20 november 2022). OU Room on PS! is active 24/7 doing metagame talk.

Which YouTubers? If someone’s using Ghost Curse Garganacl I wanna watch it, that’s content right there. (Still crediting myself for inventing the set tho)