No set amount, depends on sequencing and quality of opponents
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Srn, TPP, and viivian.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
i'd like to be clear that i'm not blaming smogon- you guys do great work and i'm not here to spew conspiracy theories about how smogon loves stall/wants to ban everything, etc, etc. i just think that a pretty sizeable portion of the playerbase is not getting a say because of voting requirements that underestimate just how good 80 GXE actually is. a baseline mechanics test is, in my opinion, all that's really necessary to weed out people who actually just have no idea what they're talking about, when used in combination with the other requirements i suggested.
Play.pokemonshowdown.com
follow the requirements for a username on the suspect thread, and have fun!
Me too, im a bit pesimistic about getting reqs (since im bad and i dont belive in myself), but im gonna try
considering the first game i tried to play i got double crit by my opponents anhilliape i feel like maybe i should start this up later if at all.
Anyways for the sake of not being a one liner, when it that shall not be named was being discussed someone mentioned how it would be unironically interesting to build a team (or at least a pokemon) around Magic Room, what with broken stuff like Chi-Yu and Gholdengo both having NP and being excellent scarfers. I did build a small little test team on it, and I might get it RMTed when I'm finished making it not ass (so never lol), but the set I stumbled upon first was this one:
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magic Room
- Steel Beam
The goal? Get up Magic Room, and then proceed to fucking die. Klefki and Gothitelle (lmao) are the only two which get the move, so this is probably the only way to use Magic Room. The item can be anything (since it won't matter lol), so I just went for Leftovers.
Thoughts? I know Magic Room is incredibly niche but I do genuinely think it has enough merit with all the scary boosters around to let a team around it do something.
I looked at the Ladder rankings.
Gen 9 OU Ladder shows the Top 500 players.
Players from Rank 150 to 500 had mostly GXE of 65% to 75%.
These players had Rankings of 1,800 to 1,700.
Than Finch made a post saying it is possible for 70% GXE or 1,500 to 1,600 ranked players to get reqs.
It seems the Council is asking for the impossible.
Gen 9 OU Ladder shows the Top 500 players.
Players from Rank 150 to 500 had mostly GXE of 65% to 75%.
These players had Rankings of 1,800 to 1,700.
Than Finch made a post saying it is possible for 70% GXE or 1,500 to 1,600 ranked players to get reqs.
It seems the Council is asking for the impossible.
the players who are at 1800 elo have played hundreds of games against high-level opponents. It's a lot easier to maintain a high gxe if you are only playing a few games against low-ladder opponents. Ever suspect test has seen a large turnout, so it's clear that the requirements are nowhere near impossible.
GXE doesn't work the same as ELO does- someone at a much lower ranking can have a higher GXE. i agree that 80% is far too high, but high rank players not having above 80% doesn't prove it to be impossible.
a better argument would be that if the best of the best cannot consistently maintain an 80% GXE i don't see how many other people are supposed to maintain an 80% GXE. this is why i suggested a higher minimum amount of games required and a lower GXE requirement.
this is also assuming the people in these ranks are always going super try hard and don’t goof around or experiment (which will damage your numbers when you inevitably lose as part of the process). Like I fall in this group you mention but I’ve spent 2 weeks spamming offensive bronzong (I’ll post more on this later because it’s actually been fairly fun and does ok despite some massive horrible problems).
Also what nish said. The more you play the more it drops simply as a result of playing a bunch it’s why people play 50 games reach the reqs then go back to normal
Edit: removed premature zong babble ignore me
I'd like some thoughts on what I believe to be the most underutilized item in the meta right now: Mirror Herb.
Annihilape @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
I've been running this set to surprisingly solid results for an item I never usually see discussed, because setup sweepers are all over the place in this meta, and very few are boosting only SPA. As such, Mirror herb can be fairly reliable used to punish setup sweepers trying to take advantage of a forced switch.
In OU alone, Ape, Bax, Breloom, Ceru, Chien-Pao, Corv, Dnite, Pult, Chomp, Moth, Valiant, Kingambit, Maushold, Quaquaval, Moon, Scizor & Tyranitar all often run some sort of boosting move that benefits Ape offensively, and the SPD given by quiver dance/Calm Mind allows annihlape to more reliably counter special sweepers such as volc & espathra.
With a bit of speed investment to taunt opposing Ape & the ability to hit base100 after snagging a speed boost from a dragon/quiver dance, I think mirror herb does have a place in discussion.
Annihilape @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
I've been running this set to surprisingly solid results for an item I never usually see discussed, because setup sweepers are all over the place in this meta, and very few are boosting only SPA. As such, Mirror herb can be fairly reliable used to punish setup sweepers trying to take advantage of a forced switch.
In OU alone, Ape, Bax, Breloom, Ceru, Chien-Pao, Corv, Dnite, Pult, Chomp, Moth, Valiant, Kingambit, Maushold, Quaquaval, Moon, Scizor & Tyranitar all often run some sort of boosting move that benefits Ape offensively, and the SPD given by quiver dance/Calm Mind allows annihlape to more reliably counter special sweepers such as volc & espathra.
With a bit of speed investment to taunt opposing Ape & the ability to hit base100 after snagging a speed boost from a dragon/quiver dance, I think mirror herb does have a place in discussion.
That’s kind of the exact reason we have requirements, though. Have you met the playerbase? We just had a multiple-page discussion about the competitive merits of a Pokémon that doesn’t see use in ZU.
I do not think you understand how GXE works or how inflated suspects can make matters, with all due respect.
the suspect just started and they have to make new accounts (you would know this if you read the suspect thread!)
let em cook
Yeah, I agree with Finch that approaching how you ladder to go about getting reqs is a very important part of it. I can’t act like I’m some expert, since I only went for and got reqs once before (the Urshifu suspect in SS OU), but it wasn’t as bad as it seems to get a GXE over 80 if you went about it the “right way.” GXE feels like some mystical formula to me that no one seems to really understand (I’m joking - I’m sure that the actual formula is known but most people don’t really know how it’s calculated) but getting off to a good start against the low ladder is really important. I think that using the more polarizing playstyles, like stall or HO, tends to be useful for getting reqs because teams on the lower ladder often fold to them. I used a stall team when I got reqs and most of the teams I came across never had much of a hope to break it; I don’t think I played particularly well or anything but I went 32-2 and had a GXE of 83.5. I won’t be trying to get reqs again since laddering is unreasonably stressful to me for some reason and I don’t have the time anymore (planning a wedding and fixing an old house is hard lol), but if you use the “right” strategy (again, usually something extreme like stall or HO, although stall may not be a great pick in SV at the moment, and resetting if you don’t get off to a good start), I feel like a lot more people can get reqs than they may initially think. I’ll probably go back to being mainly inactive for a while again, since I was primarily just interested in checking out the discussion surrounding the new generation, but good luck to everyone going for reqs!
Last edited:
as i said before, i agree with there being requirements. obviously there are players (the kind who think that slow, frail ice types will ever be viable) whose opinions on the meta are completely uninformed and irrelevant to any actual discussion. my issue is that there are players who do have informed opinions and do know, at least to a reasonable extent, what they're talking about, who do not have a say simply because they lack the in-game skill to reach the required 80% GXE.
to get into more specific numbers, i think aiming for something around a 70% GXE with a minimum game requirement of around 100-150 would be good, in my opinion. it would allow players who clearly understand the meta but are bad at actually playing the game to meet reqs while still keeping out people like mr. "trust me bro my waifumon from ZU is good, actually"
I really don’t think these exist. Anyone with a solid understanding of the meta should be able to maintain 80% GXE over 50+ games on a fresh account, especially in a meta where stuff as braindead as Cyclizar exists.
Very unlikely
Well damn, considering I don't fare much better myself (I *think* my peak was 1450 with some brainless Espathra Cyclizar team). I'll be watching from the sidelines as history is made, I guess.
Circling back to an unaddressed point I made earlier...
Magic room is funny. I doubt it'll be good, like, ever, but I do mention the couple of niches it might have and I do genuinely want to hear people's thoughts on it.
It becomes easier to hit new peaks during suspects like these with the amount of games going on, the degree of natural variance, and so many newer players trying. Definitely do not think you're too far off either -- most people are getting reqs in the 1600s rn
Fulfilling the 80 GXE requirement is possible, I once passed the Magearna Suspect test on Gen 8 National Dex, actually a smaller number of games (30-50) is easier to achieve than having to play hundreds of games even though the GXE requirement is less.
And don't forget that to fulfill the suspect test requirement, we must use a new account according to the specified name. Of course we will all start from elo 1000, it doesn't matter how many elo when we finish the reqs, as long as the GXE requirements are met.
And don't forget that to fulfill the suspect test requirement, we must use a new account according to the specified name. Of course we will all start from elo 1000, it doesn't matter how many elo when we finish the reqs, as long as the GXE requirements are met.
The second question -- which all voters will respond to regardless of their answer to the first -- will be "What are your (ranked) preferred actions?" with the possibilities being as follows:
- Posted by Finchinator, in the Suspect thread
I do only have one question: why is No Action not an option on this question? It, being the 2nd question itself, isn't affected by the 1st question or the answers to said question, so why can't one choice be 'keep as is?' It is a tiering action, though really I sorta just want clarification as to why it isn't an option for Q2.
- Outright ban (Terastallization will no longer be usable in SV OU)
- 1 Tera user per team (Only the first member of your party will be allowed to Terastallize during the course of the battle)
- Reveal Tera type at team preview (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but the type they would do so into is disclosed at team preview prior to a battle)
- Only STAB Tera types allowed (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but they may only do so to types that match their initial STAB typings)
- Posted by Finchinator, in the Suspect thread
I do only have one question: why is No Action not an option on this question? It, being the 2nd question itself, isn't affected by the 1st question or the answers to said question, so why can't one choice be 'keep as is?' It is a tiering action, though really I sorta just want clarification as to why it isn't an option for Q2.
- Status