Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

[OvertoneSeries]

C -> B-

While Roaring Moon does quite a few things better than Hydreigon as a dark/dragon, namely as a DD sweeper and choice item user, I think there's plenty that gives Hydreigon a solid niche too.

Like Roaring Moon, it can get switch in opportunities by taking advantage of Chi-Yu. It also gets a few more switch-in opportunities; it doesn't care too much about getting burned by Rotom-Wash or Skeledirge, and Levitate lets it come in on Iron Treads and Garchomp fairly easily and dodge Spikes chip. Between Nasty Plot and Draco Meteor, it can be very immediately threatening (where Roaring Moon needs either Booster Energy or Band to be especially scary up front), and it sits at a decent speed tier for the current meta that lets it outspeed threats like Annihilape, Great Tusk and non-scarf Gholdengo comfortably.

The main reason I like Hydreigon is because of its access to Thunder Wave in conjunction with its good speed tier. Its offensive presence makes it very difficult for status immunes to come in - Gholdengo gets owned hard, and while Garganacl and Hatterene can dodge a 2hko from full health, they still have to pray for no Dark Pulse flinch and no Tera, and they'll still get 2hkod after chip or hazards. Meanwhile, Iron Valiant, who would otherwise come in freely, does not like getting paralyzed, and other resists like Azumarill and Kingambit also won't love it. It can also potentially be used to put status on things like Annihilape (it lives an unboosted Drain Punch), Baxcalibur, and Dragonite, hurting their sweeping capability, giving you opportunities to luck out and opening up Hex users like Dragapult, should the need arise. You can also potentially use things like Flash Cannon or Surf to nuke certain checks.

It's far from perfect: it lets things like Unaware Clodsire, Grimmsnarl and Ting-Lu get in very easily (Ting loses the 1v1 but gets hazards up), and it can be quite hard to use against more offensive teams, but I think its niche as an effective status-spreading breaker is valuable enough to justify a B- rank.

Also agree with:
A+ → S-
A → A+
B → A-
C → B-
A+ → A

 

[Tysonslayer]

really? you think corviknight should remain as an A rank pokemon when gholdengo is one of the most dominant pokemon in the current metagame? i think corv is good but ghold seriously holds it back from being as high as it is. i agreed with all of the posts nominating it to A- instead of A but i'd like to hear why you don't believe that to be the case

I think the argument Gholdengo invalidates is a bit silly cause you know people are going to bring Gholdengo so you can U-turn into a Gholdengo answer as mentioned above keeping up the momentum, but in other words, Corviknight is also one of the few actual good pivots in the tier as well as one of the only real bulky Steel-types and Flying-type not including Dragonite since it teras most of the time anyway, so it still has useful bulk and ability to check some important threats like Roaring Moon, nonoffensive Great Tusk, Dragonite, and plenty of more and has a handful of Tera options to better check certain threats that could beat it. Also while Gholdengo is really good it's not everywhere and Corviknight is still an actual removal at the end of the day, so there are a lot of positives for it then just oh Gholdengo exists so Corviknight should drop which it itself is a bad argument.

Slowking is an amazing special wall in a tier full of OP special attackers, and can provide excellent support for its team through Future Sight and Chilly Reception. It is true that it relies on Tera to beat mons like Chi-Yu, Gholdengo and Pult, but it has such excellent matchups against so many top tier threats after Terastallizing that it definitely doesn't deserve to be rated any lower than it currently is. You're undervaluing Chilly Reception; it's a tool that is entirely unique to Slowking that grabs momentum for your team, synergises amazingly with FS + Regen, and provides Snow support, which not only gives a fair bit of physical bulk to Baxcalibur and Chien-Pao, but also gets rid of opposing weathers like the popular Sun. I think B+ is fair for Slowking giving its reliance on Tera, but it has so many strong and unique traits in this meta that it would be unreasonable to rank it any lower.

Slowking is alright tho calling B+ is a bit of a stretch when there's a plethora of strong physical attackers that overwhelm it even some of the special attackers have ways to beat it if it does tera where Gholdengo can trick Choice Scarf on it or just become set up fodder for Nasty Plot Recover sets, Dragapult can be banded and you take a good chunk from Specs Chi-Yu under soon, also the point show how it relies on tera to check notable threats since you have to commit to it when there's probably another mon you wanna save the tera for, but you are using it for Slowking, the pivoting is alright even tho you still lose to a handful of stuff and snow is mediocre rn, if I really wanted a bulky special defense option I would go for Clodsire and Ting-Lu all who don't have to immediate tera, both with great utility, and one has reliable recovery, but neither have pivoting moves and yet are great picks and much better then Slowking.

As for Pincurchin, I don't really see the point you're trying to make? Like yeah, you know it's going to set Terrain and try and get Spikes up, but what else does it need to do? It's certainly not Koko, but it gets its job done. Pincurchin is surprisingly bulky with max investment, which makes keeping Terrain up fairly easy so long as you're not fighting a bunch of Ice Spinner mons, and lets it fairly reliably get Spikes up and spread Paralysis and chip around with Terrain boosted Discharge. I think E Terrain itself as a playstyle is pretty underrated; being able to run around with +1 Speed Specs Valiant is no joke, and other abusers like Moth and Hands are fantastic too. You do hate Chien-Pao and Ice Spinner Tusk, but Iron Hands beats Chien-Pao very reliably, and Valiant is a massive threat to Tusk. Pincurchin is overall a pretty weak mon, but I think its niche in being the sole enabler of E Terrain as a playstyle combined with its good utility options earns it a C+ ranking.
EDIT: Pincurchin also gets Sucker which is actually surprisingly useful at catching people off guard and beating weakened Gholdengo, Pult etc. and Recover to keep itself healthy. It really wishes it got Volt Switch, but regardless it definitely has utility outside of just setting Terrain (not that you would want to use it outside of E Terrain teams mind)

Committing to an Electric Terrain team is whatever they ain't the best thing or one of the worst things which you would have to use Pincurchin when a majority of Quark Drive mons function well outside of it and still are threatening in their own way without having a team slot wasted with basically dead weight, you really want to set up one or two layers of spikes or not even since you want to enable your offensive threats by crippling with Thunder Wave or pivoting with Memento to make good use of terrain especially since a handful of mons can just begin taking advantage of Pincurchin and it itself is a pathetic mon and not that great. All the mons you mention would be doing even better without needing Pincurching and already doing it is just a waste of a team slot at that point, also the additional moves you mentioned are not even worth running since Pincurchin wants some other notable utility moves to make the most of it, this mon is just not good even if its niche is just so little cause Electric Terrain teams are whatever rn, and like I said it doesn't do a whole bunch or its just setups terrain and nothing else.

 

[TheRealBigC]

Committing to an Electric Terrain team is whatever they ain't the best thing or one of the worst things which you would have to use Pincurchin when a majority of Quark Drive mons function well outside of it and still are threatening in their own way without having a team slot wasted with basically dead weight, you really want to set up one or two layers of spikes or not even since you want to enable your offensive threats by crippling with Thunder Wave or pivoting with Memento to make good use of terrain especially since a handful of mons can just begin taking advantage of Pincurchin and it itself is a pathetic mon and not that great. All the mons you mention would be doing even better without needing Pincurching and already doing it is just a waste of a team slot at that point, also the additional moves you mentioned are not even worth running since Pincurchin wants some other notable utility moves to make the most of it, this mon is just not good even if its niche is just so little cause Electric Terrain teams are whatever rn, and like I said it doesn't do a whole bunch or its just setups terrain and nothing else.

Again, I think just dismissing Pincurchin as total dead weight on Terrain teams is a great exaggeration for reasons I listed above. As for E Terrain as a playstyle, while it is true the Quark Drive mons don't need E Terrain to be good, and overall E Terrain is a playstyle with a lot of issues, being able to get a free +1 Speed or a 30% buff to a different stat on mons like Valiant and Moth without needing to run Booster Energy is incredibly powerful and is something that can't be replicated on other playstyles. Pincurchin being the sole enabler of this earns it its C+ rank.

 

[Eeveeto]

Why is Espathra just A+ tier. It is definitely worth being an S tier Pokemon (maybe S- though, since Gholdengo is a legit god). With Hyper Offense (especially Screen Shed Tail) thriving in OU meta, I feel like Espathra is definitely broken. It is one of and probably the best sweeper in the entire OU metagame.

With access to the ability Speed Boost as well as Calm Mind and Stored Power combination, it's a complete monster. It counters so many meta Pokemon like Great Tusk, Glimmora, Dragapult, etc. It even has Dazzling Gleam, which can easily destroy Dragon or Dark types, like Roaring Moon (but requires a reasonable speed boost). Protect gives it a free speed boost as well. It's terribly broken. Even it's Lumina Crash set is viable (I don't like playing it though). It works super well with Grimmsnarl and Cyclizar (or Orthworm).

What's most disturbing is that it is UU. Like seriously, this broken mon which shatters the realms of OU into pieces it actually UnderUsed (though it ain't broken their, with no Shed Tailer and lack of good Screener, I feel Orthworm must have had been UU). Even it's previous evolution Flittle (F***King Little - Cup) is annihilating Little Cup.

Also why is their no good Psychic types except Espathra and Hatterene (not even Armarouge, I had great expectations on this thing). Also, surprisingly, no Psychic type is actually OU, or even Ubers. Psychic used to be best in Gen 1 and now (just my opinion, I am really obsessed with Psychic types).

I had already anticipated in the beginning, Espathra is going to be very strong (and fun to play). Freezai even made a video on this monster explaining it's brokenness.

Why Espathra is the Best Matchwinner in Competitive Singles?

S Tier is reserved for Mons that dominate the Metagame, have 472579 viable sets and fit in all Playstyles (Chi-Yu does not follow well this one but it's really good at what it does, which is breaking) without being too dependant on teammates.

Espathra:
-Has just one strat, which is CM + Stored Power. There are some variations of it, but the goal of each set is the same.
-Absolutely requires either Screens or Shed Tail support to work, preferably both. Can't fit in teams that has neither, you are better using another sweeper.
-Due to the amount of Darks and Steels in the meta, has to Terastalyze in almost every battle in order to sweep. Both Fight Tera + Tera Blast and Fairy + Dazzling Gleam have limitations in what they can or cannot break.
-Lacks immediate power, totally needs to use at least 2 CMs to be threatening. Shed Tail and Screens facilitate this, but this is still a limitation. DD Pult, NP Chi Yu and NP Gholdengo also use boosting moves, but are threatening at +0 too.
- Espathra is lucky in the sense that this meta doesn't have many Haze, Roar and Whirlwind users. However, they still exist: Hippo, Skeledirge (doesn't use Roar often but learns it and has Unaware), Ting-Lu and the rare Haze Clodsire make Espathra a liability.

To sum it up, Espathra doesn't dominate the Meta like the 4 S Rank (and Annihilape who should be the 5th ) do. It doesn't fit in many teams and consumes many resources in the ones it does, requiring a lot of support to work. For me it's even a A- Mon and C+ at best if Terastal is banned.

 

[Moyashi]

Like seriously, this broken mon which shatters the realms of OU into pieces it actually UnderUsed (though it ain't broken their, with no Shed Tailer and lack of good Screener,

Espathra is a hundred times more broken in UU than in OU.

Anyways got some noms after playing a fair bit this past week

A -> A+
There was a time I found this kinda overrated. Then I saw CurseDon. I hate it. Quite potent as a threat while maintaining its defensive qualities. Don is a strong defensive pokemon rn.
A- -> A
Hatt is seriously good. In a meta with so much emphasis on hazards (and hazard stacking being very common), it reliably helps keep its side less cluttered, and is a rather threatening wincon with Calm Mind too, while support like Nuzzle can be pretty disruptive.
B+ -> A-
I've seen more Maushold on ladder this past week than I have seen Iron Hands since Dec 1st and that's simply perplexing because... Hands is great and maushold is terrible. Very sturdy, offensively threatening, a great terastilize user itself. It can provide a nice check to several threats like Chien-Pao, Gholdengo and Kingambit, to mons like Quaquavel, and can even handle dark pulse locked Chi-Yu. There is a fair bit of room for experimenting due to its rather large movepool too. It's imo a good deal above things in B+ and simply too consistent.
B- - C+
I like the idea of this mon on paper but in practice it just isn't very good. Shed Tails sets are very "you commit to this" due to a lack of reliable recovery, and such sets exhibit no offensive pressure itself (plus it loses to the best ground type anyway). Hazard sets are just average and so are BP+ID sets. It is just very unremarkable.
B- -> C+
I've seen a few ways people try to make this work and in every instance it just isn't temarkable or consistent. The fact it loses to such consistent defensive mons in the tier like Skeledirge and Dondozo doesn't help it either.
C -> D
New toy syndrome wore off. Lokix is just not there anymore. Its average attack and less than ideal speed undermine the idea of dual priority and tinted lens, making it thud into any remotely bulky pokemon while any offensive mon who can take a hit (which many exist) will kill it right back. Hazards kill it mega fast on LO sets, while boots sets lack threat level.

 

[Eeveeto]

Espathra is a hundred times more broken in UU than in OU.

Anyways got some noms after playing a fair bit this past week

View attachment 477330A -> A+
There was a time I found this kinda overrated. Then I saw CurseDon. I hate it. Quite potent as a threat while maintaining its defensive qualities. Don is a strong defensive pokemon rn.
View attachment 477328A- -> A
Hatt is seriously good. In a meta with so much emphasis on hazards (and hazard stacking being very common), it reliably helps keep its side less cluttered, and is a rather threatening wincon with Calm Mind too, while support like Nuzzle can be pretty disruptive.
View attachment 477329B+ -> A-
I've seen more Maushold on ladder this past week than I have seen Iron Hands since Dec 1st and that's simply perplexing because... Hands is great and maushold is terrible. Very sturdy, offensively threatening, a great terastilize user itself. It can provide a nice check to several threats like Chien-Pao, Gholdengo and Kingambit, to mons like Quaquavel, and can even handle dark pulse locked Chi-Yu. There is a fair bit of room for experimenting due to its rather large movepool too. It's imo a good deal above things in B+ and simply too consistent.
View attachment 477325B- - C+
I like the idea of this mon on paper but in practice it just isn't very good. Shed Tails sets are very "you commit to this" due to a lack of reliable recovery, and such sets exhibit no offensive pressure itself (plus it loses to the best ground type anyway). Hazard sets are just average and so are BP+ID sets. It is just very unremarkable.
View attachment 477326B- -> C+
I've seen a few ways people try to make this work but especially ETerrain sets and Swagger+Mirror Herb sets. But in every instance Hawlucha was just not all that effective. It also losing to Skeledirge and Dondozo, while struggling with other mons like Iron Hands and even Hatterene (who can troll SwaggerHerb Lucha) hurts its consistency more.
View attachment 477327C -> D
New toy syndrome wore off. Lokix is just not there anymore. Its average attack and less than ideal speed undermine the idea of dual priority and tinted lens, making it thud into any remotely bulky pokemon while any offensive mon who can take a hit (which many exist) will kill it right back. Hazards kill it mega fast on LO sets, while boots sets lack threat level.

Won't be commenting the rest, but I have actually used Lokix and he fits well in C. Ok, he won't be breaking fat teams, but with the right teammates he does destroy offensive ones. Tinted Lens is a really good ability and LO First Impression does lots of damage to everything except quad resists (Iron Valiant and Annihilape for example). He does have shortcomings, namely wanting 5 or 6 moves ( First Impression, Leech Life, Sucker, U-Turn, second Dark move and Axe Kick) and absolutely mandating Hazard removal or Hatterene, but he is competent enough vs offense, which dominates the meta.

Yes, it's not a consistent Mon and pretty match-up reliant, but so are Mimikyu, Alomomola, Screaming Tail and Poltergeist, other C Rank Mons.
At the same time he clearly belongs above shit like Brute Bonnet or Maushold, both of which barely even get good match-ups, unlike Lokix, who does have them.

 

[ayevon]

if there's any updates before it's quickbanned, it should be S

Should go down to A+ with the proiliferation of Fairy Garganacl

Should go down A imo, Tera Flying Gholdengo is just too prevelant, struggles with Tusk spinning, struggles other special attackers like Volcarona and Iron Valiant, relies on Whirlwind to beat setup leaving you with issues when it's last mon Espathra or Volcarona, will have less utility after a seemingly looming Chi-Yu and Shed Tail ban

Should be A+, easily the best defensive Tera user, compresses an ability to check a huge number of threats into one slot, has one of the most broken abilities and moves. Only thing that keeps it from S is the opportunity cost of being pretty reliant on Tera.

Should go down to like B+, shit is just mid, just used for an attempt at role compression at a bunch of roles it doesn't even do very well. Extremely team specific imo.

Everyone knows this should be A+, don't gotta spell it out

Mid, should be B or B+ if you're feeling generous

Should probably be A in a Chi Yu meta, A- probably more realistic if Chi-Yu is gone. Can pivot into a plethora of special attackers, regen is probably even more valuable now with recovery nerf, can use black sludge to annoy the plethora of trick mons, can put Espathra on a timer with toxic while living an early stored power, or use Steel Tera with haze + toxic to even beat it. Toxic and Toxic Spikes annoy so many teams even with the Gholdengo's and Garganacl's of the world running around. Definitely on par with Amoongus, Clodsire, and Rotom as a defenisve threat.

 

[Venuesaur]

B -> B+/A-

Protean essentially giving you up to 4 stabs on choiced sets is really nice and is something that's gotten overloked with this mon. This also includes it getting stab play rough, which is fantastic in a tier dominated by darks, fightings and dragons, often hitting most of the team for at least neutral damage. Also one of the only viable knockers in the tier aside from the Donphans, allowing it to get rid of items on mons like Corviknight and Amoonguss, and similar access to sucker punch can really help it in stopping sweeps. It's signature move Flower Trick is also surprisingly really good, even hitting resists for a lot of damage. As well, it being perma-crit allows it to break through the plethora of screens and defense boosts going through the tier right now and makes it surprisingly spammable for a grass move. This is further helped by the many mons that like tera-ing into water types. It essentially gets extra stabs without having to use tera, and can use tera on top of that. It's best set is probably band because it really appreciates the increase in power, but scarf is also probably really nice as an offensive pivot as well. Similarly has decent attack and good speed, but probably not as much as it wants; still very fast and outspeeds a lot of threats. I haven't tried utility sets, but they possibly have something to offer; however, Corviknight being so prevalent means you'd probably need to run taunt with it.

 

[658Greninja]

Back with some more noms

Rises

A- > A: Flame Body is insanely good rn. Punishes the multitude of physically offensive threats in the metagame. I’ve been running a set with Tera Fairy and tons of defense investment, lets it act as a great wincon and check to the likes of Pao, Ape, Valiant, Gambit, Headlong Rush Tusks, and more. Has several options with its moveset like Tera Blast, Psychic, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, even Wisp. Tons of Tera potential with Tera Ground to 2HKO Dirge, Tera Grass for Azu and Dondozo, Tera Fire for insanely strong Fire-STAB, or the aforementioned Tera Fairy to resist Sucker Punches and to blow past Dnite, Pult, Moon, and non-Tera Ape. I think its more preferable over Dirge rn due to its unique qualities and potency as a setup sweeper.

B > B+/A-: Dark, Fighting, and Ground are the most common types in the meta rn, especially the former, and Azumarill can abuse them with its useful resistances. Priority Aqua Jet is a blessing for it in this highly offensive metagame. It even fits on those teams nicely due to its previously mentioned traits. Belly Drum is a great wincon, but with how common Dondozo and Tera Fairy/Water Dirge are, I’m betting on Band to be better for immediate damage. The two most common mons that resist its STABs, Amonguss and Water Absorb Clodsire are handled by Ice Spinner or in the latter’s case, raw Play Roughs. Pairs nicely with the most broken mon in the tier Chi-Yu.

B+ > A-: Sun has dethroned Rain and Sand as the best weather in the tier. It has gained several tools that makes it the defined weather, namely the paradox mons, Scovillain, and Chi-Yu. Tusks providing spin and raw damage, Moon acting as a breaker/wincon/speed control and FWG resist. Slither Wing provides priority, Tusks check, U-Turn, and breaker potential. Even on Torkoal’s own terms, it can set rocks, spin, spread burns, and tank hits from Moon, Dnite, Pao, and more in a pinch. Also Chi-Yu being unwallable under sun also helps. Even if this statement gets dated once it gets inevitably quickbanned, I will stand saying how good Sun is rn.

B > B+/A-: Gonna echo this nom cause even without Scald or Knock it still does Pex things. Pivots on 90% of the tier, even Chi-Yu. Not that passive due to having Toxic and Haze to shutdown the likes of Pao, Dnite, and Don. Absorbs Tspikes as well. Just being a defensive pivot in a tier devoid of defensive pivots is a godsend. With Tera its range of mons it can check expands. Tera Steel for Espathra. Tera Fairy for Moon. Tera Poison to make it a more effective Valiant check. Tera Water to remove the ground weakness and let it more reliably check Dnite. Tera Ghost makes it the fattest spinblocker in the tier. Tera Dark to be a Ghost resist and to set up T-Spikes in front of Grimm as it can’t do anything about it. Its past its days as the top defensive mon of OU, but its still pretty damn good at being Pex.

C > C+: I think Hydrei is a bit better than given credit for, namely cause of its Tera potential. On its own it has a resistance to both of Chi-Yu’s STABs, immune to spikes, resists Dark, Fire, and Ghost. With Tera it could become Tera Poison to become a decent check to Valiant, Tusks, and more while removing its two main weaknesses in Fighting/Fairy. Tera Ghost gives it utility as a spinblocker that doesn’t risk being OHKOd by Tusk Knock or EQ. Also it completely walls E-Speed/EQ Dnite. This is more valuable once you consider it gets rocks. Tera Steel makes its Flash Cannons into STAB, checks Tera Fairy Espathra, can 1v1 CM Hatt, checks Moon, and lets it break past Tera Fairy Garg. Even Tera Ground to emulate the Lando-T experience. Not amazing due to a lack of Roost, but its traits are valuable enough to warrant a rise.

D > C: A crime that this is next to Umbreon in the VR. What it lacks in a solid defensive typing it gains in unique strengths. On sun a fast Spike setter with decent 85/97/85 bulk, unresisted STABs in a tier where the only Grass-Type in the tier takes neutral damage from EP. I’ve been running a Scarf set on Sun on my alt. Being 1 point faster than Chi-Yu is huge, and under Sun, it still hits like a truck. Its also bulky enough to take most priority moves. Even living a Band boosted Adamant Pao at full health, with enough horsepower under Sun to wipe it out with chip, especially when Tera’d.

252+ Atk Choice Band Chien-Pao Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sandy Shocks: 252-296 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anything that can switch into it like Ting-Lu or Blissey are Spike fodder. With Hatt and Tusks, it ensures that you stack hazards while they aren’t able to do. Can Tera Ground for stronger Earth Power’s while removing the ground weakness, Tera Water for a better mu against Dondozo and removing its Ice weakness. Its viability is limited to sun, but what it offers on the archetype should not be understated.

Drops

B > B-: Not sure if I nommed this already or not but its a very lackluster special wall rn. Without Teleport or Toxic, it becomes bait for Ghold, Glimm, Tusks, Ape, Cyclizar, Ting, and more. The nerf to Soft-Boiled and other recovery moves also was a big hit for it, especially with how strong the tier’s special breakers are rn. Its better to use Garg, Clod, or other special walls over it atm as they have less passivity.

B > C+: I want to believe Ttar, but I don’t see it anymore. All it does is switch into Chi-Yu and then invites Tusk in. Without Ice Beam it completely stumps it and removes the hazards it brings in. The two main ghosts in Pult and Ghold can damage it easily. Invites in so much shit in the tier that it becomes a “Get Out of Jail Free Card” for mons you don’t want to invite in. Outclassed by Hands, Tusk, and Gambit as a slow bulky physical wallbreaker. Outclassed by Garg as a rocker and ghost resist. The latter being one of the top mons in the tier rn.

D > UR: Spore is not a niche, otherwise Parasect would’ve been in C- in Gen 6. It is cursed as a slow Grass/Dark type. There are way more slow offensive physical breakers and Spore isn’t enough to warrant it a niche cause its typing is terrible. Nor does it have enough horsepower to warrant its use. Gambit is just a much better option in that role despite not having Spore. The mons that it checks is limited thanks to this typing. Can’t check Pult if you are 4x weak to its U-Turn. At least Wo-Chien has more respectable bulk, and Knock.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Tyranitar is having an awful time in the meta right now, so I also agree with it dropping down the rank. This meta is dominated by fast physical attackers, and Tyranitar's horrible defensive typing does it no favour

Here are some of the pokemon that can beat TTar in current meta

Great Tusk (Close Combat, EQ, Headlong)
Gholdengo (Make It Rain, Trick)
Iron Valiant (Close Combat)
Chien-Pao (Sacred Sword)
Tera Normal Dragonite (EQ)
Ting-Lu (EQ)
Annihilape (Drain Punch)
Garganacl (Body Press)
Kingambit (Iron Head)
Dondozo (Body Press)
Garchomp (EQ)
Iron Treads (EQ, Iron Head)
Quaquaval (Aqua Step, Close Combat)
Meowscarada (Flower Trick)
Breeloom (Bullet Seed, Mach Punch)
Azumarill (Play Rough, Waterfall)
Iron Hands (CC, Drain Punch)

There are a lot more and I could go on forever...essentially 80-90% of the top offensive mons in current OU easily beat Tyranitar

Given that Chi-Yu might get quickbanned after Tera suspect is done, what rank is actually justifiable for Tyranitar?

 

[Ash Borer]

View attachment 477405B > C+: I want to believe Ttar, but I don’t see it anymore. All it does is switch into Chi-Yu and then invites Tusk in. Without Ice Beam it completely stumps it and removes the hazards it brings in. The two main ghosts in Pult and Ghold can damage it easily. Invites in so much shit in the tier that it becomes a “Get Out of Jail Free Card” for mons you don’t want to invite in. Outclassed by Hands, Tusk, and Gambit as a slow bulky physical wallbreaker. Outclassed by Garg as a rocker and ghost resist. The latter being one of the top mons in the tier rn.

It's true that Tyranitar is a bad stealth rock user! But it's a good Choice Band user right now! I have been using the following set with B-tier worthy success recently:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 24 SpD / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Low Kick / Earthquake

Because of how overpowered Chi-Yu is (certainly the Pokemon in the tier closest to Uber-worthy), Tyranitar has a solid place in being one of the few counters. There are others, but Specs Overheat can overwhelm many of them faster than Tyranitar, and many of them are mediocre at utilizing momentum. Roaring Moon is forced to Roost, Azumarill is 2HKO by Specs Overheat (or, using an Assault Vest, has little wallbreaking potential), Ting-Lu is 2HKO'd by Specs Overheat, etc. Tyranitar avoids this 2HKO and therefore can stop Chi-Yu from mauling your team more than once in a match, and can maul the opponent's team in return.

Some notes on the set. With this spread, defensive Great Tusk is outsped (and its spread is scouted for as it switches in to your attacks), and the rest of the tier's best walls are threatened. Tera-Flying is used to sidestep various Ground and Fighting attacks, but Tera-Rock is a good alternative - a superpowered Stone Edge is often valuable. Hydro Pump is chosen over Surf, Ice Beam or Ice Punch, because even with a Lonely Nature and those 24 SpD EVs invested into SpA Surf/Ice Beam will confer a lower chance to 2HKO defensive Great Tusk when compared with the odds of Hydro Pumps in a row - and Ice Punch has no chance of 2HKOing a defensive Great Tusk at all. There's little point in weakening Tyranitar's nice Defense stat to either pump SpA, or save those 12 EVs that are being used to bump Hydro Pump to a virtual guaranteed 2HKO.

12- SpA Tyranitar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 226-268 (52 - 61.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 264-312 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 192-226 (48 - 56.5%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 180-213 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 150-177 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 344-406 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

I think these are fairly impressive results. Note that the worst possible scenario has been modeled here, no stealth rock, all leftovers, no chip-damage, yet these Pokemon are threatened. With Stealth Rock, a bit of chip damage, or sheer luck, Tyranitar can actually wallbreak. And more importantly, even when it can't break through the opponent's team, they're forced to play defensively in response to it - thereby retaining the momentum gained from countering Chi-Yu.

The damage Dondozo takes looks somewhat unimpressive, but it is worth noting that even without Stealth Rock, Dondozo cannot use Curse and survive a fourth Stone Edge, therefore after switching in, it is forced to Rest, which confers a significant bit of momentum. In the case of Garganacl, the Tera-Fairy+Recover can be seen a mile away, which again retains momentum for the Tyranitar user - anything with a strong Steel or Poison move will keep your opponent on the back foot - and next time Garganacl switches in, it is wounded badly enough for Stone Edge to 2HKO.

Of course, Stone Edge's poor accuracy, and the reliance on prediction that any choice set brings holds this set back, but, the best defensive Pokemon and Fighting-types in the tier are legitimately threatened by this Tyranitar, and it finds ample opportunity to switch in, because it is the best counter to the most powerful Pokemon in the tier. It's therefore quite consistent at stopping a big threat. retaining momentum, and doing significant damage to the opponent's team, so I think it deserves to remain in B.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

It's true that Tyranitar is a bad stealth rock user! But it's a good Choice Band user right now! I have been using the following set with B-tier worthy success recently:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 24 SpD / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Low Kick / Earthquake

Because of how overpowered Chi-Yu is (certainly the Pokemon in the tier closest to Uber-worthy), Tyranitar has a solid place in being one of the few counters. There are others, but Specs Overheat can overwhelm many of them faster than Tyranitar, and many of them are mediocre at utilizing momentum. Roaring Moon is forced to Roost, Azumarill is 2HKO by Specs Overheat (or, using an Assault Vest, has little wallbreaking potential), Ting-Lu is 2HKO'd by Specs Overheat, etc. Tyranitar avoids this 2HKO and therefore can stop Chi-Yu from mauling your team more than once in a match, and can maul the opponent's team in return.

Some notes on the set. With this spread, defensive Great Tusk is outsped (and its spread is scouted for as it switches in to your attacks), and the rest of the tier's best walls are threatened. Tera-Flying is used to sidestep various Ground and Fighting attacks, but Tera-Rock is a good alternative - a superpowered Stone Edge is often valuable. Hydro Pump is chosen over Surf, Ice Beam or Ice Punch, because even with a Lonely Nature and those 24 SpD EVs invested into SpA Surf/Ice Beam will confer a lower chance to 2HKO defensive Great Tusk when compared with the odds of Hydro Pumps in a row - and Ice Punch has no chance of 2HKOing a defensive Great Tusk at all. There's little point in weakening Tyranitar's nice Defense stat to either pump SpA, or save those 12 EVs that are being used to bump Hydro Pump to a virtual guaranteed 2HKO.

12- SpA Tyranitar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 226-268 (52 - 61.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 264-312 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 192-226 (48 - 56.5%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 180-213 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 150-177 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 344-406 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

I think these are fairly impressive results. Note that the worst possible scenario has been modeled here, no stealth rock, all leftovers, no chip-damage, yet these Pokemon are threatened. With Stealth Rock, a bit of chip damage, or sheer luck, Tyranitar can actually wallbreak. And more importantly, even when it can't break through the opponent's team, they're forced to play defensively in response to it - thereby retaining the momentum gained from countering Chi-Yu.

The damage Dondozo takes looks somewhat unimpressive, but it is worth noting that even without Stealth Rock, Dondozo cannot use Curse and survive a fourth Stone Edge, therefore after switching in, it is forced to Rest, which confers a significant bit of momentum. In the case of Garganacl, the Tera-Fairy+Recover can be seen a mile away, which again retains momentum for the Tyranitar user - anything with a strong Steel or Poison move will keep your opponent on the back foot - and next time Garganacl switches in, it is wounded badly enough for Stone Edge to 2HKO.

Of course, Stone Edge's poor accuracy, and the reliance on prediction that any choice set brings holds this set back, but, the best defensive Pokemon and Fighting-types in the tier are legitimately threatened by this Tyranitar, and it finds ample opportunity to switch in, because it is the best counter to the most powerful Pokemon in the tier. It's therefore quite consistent at stopping a big threat. retaining momentum, and doing significant damage to the opponent's team, so I think it deserves to remain in B.

You are ignoring the fact that Tyranitar has a horrible speed tier, and one of the worst defensive typing in the whole game. This means that it's far more likely to get OHKO than do the damage it's supposed to do with a Choice Band (and Tyranitar isn't the only Mon who can hold choice items). If you refer to my post above, you can see how bad Tyranitar is doing in the present offensive meta. As for Chi-Yu, checking it is not very relevant as Chi-Yu is likely to get quickbanned within a month. Which means its defensive utility will be much less relevant.

 

[Vrin]

Just a quick comment.

As for Chi-Yu, checking it is not very relevant as Chi-Yu is likely to get quickbanned within a month. Which means its defensive utility will be much less relevant.

This isn't relevant for a VR thread. The viability rankings are meant to rank things based on how they currently exist in the metagame, not a hypothetical metagame that may come to pass a month down the line or whatever. Seismitoad wasn't moved down until after Dracovish got properly banned despite said ban looking pretty inevitable for a while.

———

Some other random notes:

Iron Moth is not good right now, it wants to run 50 different moves and items at once and without them it WILL struggle. It feels a lot like "bad Chi-Yu that can recover, threaten Agility, and switch in on Valiant", which like, is definitely a niche, but not an A- worthy niche; especially when the other moth Volcarona checks the "setup sweeper who checks Valiant" box with much more consistency. Obviously these two mons aren't in direct competition, they have pretty different matchups vs common team structures, but they do play similarly enough (and fit on similar enough team structures) that it's sensible to compare them — and Iron Moth requires a lot of structural sacrifices for something that really doesn't have a very high payoff, unlike other offensive threats in the A ranks. Definitely worse than Scizor and Azumarill IMO, I wouldn't put Iron Moth any higher than B.

Also yeah, please move Sandy Shocks up, mon is a threat — way more threatening than most of C. Obviously it has flaws: it's frail and prediction reliant, it's a wallbreaker that struggles with some common walls, and it's hard to fit on teams. But, man, it can be super scary when positioned well.

As a quick final comment, I am unconvinced that Gholdengo is so much better/more core to the metagame than Chi-Yu and Great Tusk are. While Gholdengo hazard stack is undeniably very strong and flexible (it's less an "archetype" and more a pattern that has emerged across many different teams and play styles), it's also a known quantity in the metagame, as is evidenced by the rise of anti-Gholdengo choices like Great Tusk, Hatterene, Sun offense (has a very good MU vs most hazard stack in general), or just spamming Boots... Gholdengo is clearly one of the defining Pokemon of the metagame but I think Great Tusk and Chi-Yu are equally prominent/dominant right now. So many teams are smacking Tusk on and not really getting punished for it, and people have increasingly realized how good Boots Chi-Yu matches up into the metagame at the moment... you get the idea. I would put them all in S, leaving Dragapult and potentially a couple other mons in S-. I think that's a more fair reflection of how they stand relative to each other in the metagame.

 

[Finchinator]

ayevon is now ou vr council btw

 

[Magcargo]

View attachment 477403B > B-: Not sure if I nommed this already or not but its a very lackluster special wall rn. Without Teleport or Toxic, it becomes bait for Ghold, Glimm, Tusks, Ape, Cyclizar, Ting, and more. The nerf to Soft-Boiled and other recovery moves also was a big hit for it, especially with how strong the tier’s special breakers are rn. Its better to use Garg, Clod, or other special walls over it atm as they have less passivity.

Nah, this mon is still ok due to its ability to pivot into some of the strongest Special Attacks in the tier like Chi-Yu's Specs Overheat and either recover off the damage or punish switch-ins with a crippling Thunder Wave. I've been running Shadow Ball on it as well, making its MU w/ Gholdengo not too too bad since it can chunk it for a decent amount of damage + fish for SpDef drops and the move is quite helpful vs Skeledirge too since Thunder Wave paras + Shadow Ball SpDef drops mean Blissey does quite solidly in the 1v1 MU most of the time unless Dirge Teras. The Ape MU is problematic for it, however.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Just a quick comment.



This isn't relevant for a VR thread. The viability rankings are meant to rank things based on how they currently exist in the metagame, not a hypothetical metagame that may come to pass a month down the line or whatever. Seismitoad wasn't moved down until after Dracovish got properly banned despite said ban looking pretty inevitable for a while.

———

I know. Just saying that checking Chi-Yu isn't very relevant when it folds to 80% of the tier. It doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside Meow and Azumarill

 

[Esca D. Sulphate]

ayevon is now ou vr council btw

tfw not MudkipNerd

To make this not a one-liner: agree with the suggestions for a Floatzel and Azumarill rise, especially Azu since that mon's typing and raw power allows it to softcheck a bunch of stuff for Offense squads even if it doesn't want to directly switch into a lot of them. Sandy Shocks could probably move up a bit but I find it kind of hard to justify using when Chi-Yu eclipses a lot of other special breakers, especially considering its poor matchup into SpD Ting-Lu which is ran so frequently. Sure the different typing and hazard/VSwitch access mean it doesn't perform the exact same but in the end, if you want a "click button" special breaker it cannot compete. It's good in a vacuum but in the larger context of the metagame it's rarely the best option for a squad. Might be worth visiting back in the event the fish gets booted but that's probably still a while away, if it happens at all.

View attachment 477411D > UR: Spore is not a niche, otherwise Parasect would’ve been in C- in Gen 6. It is cursed as a slow Grass/Dark type. There are way more slow offensive physical breakers and Spore isn’t enough to warrant it a niche cause its typing is terrible. Nor does it have enough horsepower to warrant its use. Gambit is just a much better option in that role despite not having Spore. The mons that it checks is limited thanks to this typing. Can’t check Pult if you are 4x weak to its U-Turn. At least Wo-Chien has more respectable bulk, and Knock.

I feel Bonnet's niche is moreso as a niche attacker on Sun squads, where its Atk is boosted by Protosynthesis and can be raised to outright ridiculous levels with Growth, at which point its Suckers oneshot most of the offensive metagame while its other move (usually a STAB move or Close Combat) gets rid of bulky stuff. Spore is fun but probably not even necessary on such a set beyond generating setup opportunities. Running it as a tank breaker with Spore on other archetypes isn't as good (like you said Kingambit is just generally better) and comparing it to Wo-Chien is weird because purely defensive sets are obviously bad, nobody was claiming they were good. This is D Rank we're talking about though--a small but tangible niche on specific archetypes probably warrants a rank here, and I don't believe you could seriously say this is worse than Umbreon, Maushold, Quag and Gengar.

 

[yeshahar]

I would like to nominate GRAFAIAI from (nothing???) to D tier.

Hear me out, this pokemon has a BUNCH going on for it. Okay, before I talk about it, let's see its movepool.

In attacking, it has a PHYSICAL ATTACK of 95, max. 317, and has coverage of: acrobatics, facade, knock off, low kick, poison jab, gunk shot, u-turn, foul play.

I have underlined several moves. Those moves are the ones that are very good moves; Grafaiai has acrobatics which doubles its power after losing its item. BUT WAIT. THAT TERM IS FAMILIAR. Unburden. Grafaiai gets unburden. We saw how great knock off was in Generation 8; removing opponents items is very great. Low kick could be used to hit heavy pokemons or steel/rock types, which normall resist Grafaiai's STABS. Gunk shot is a great move aswell because it is basically a Close Combat but poison-type. HOWEVER, its accuracy is only 80%, so its risky. But Grafaiai also gets poison jab.

In status, it has the ability prankster, which increases the priority of STATUS MOVES by +1. It has the moves; parting shot, switcheroo, taunt, toxic, swagger, and encore. These moves are great especially for p-shot and toxic as toxic NEVER misses (Grafaiai is poison-type.) and parting shot reduces your enemy's attacks by two stages each.

We have seen now how wide Grafaiai's movepool is. But what really struck me the most is one of its abilities; UNBURDEN. Unburden increases your SPEED stat by two stages when your mon loses its item. Sure, this may seem really awful as losing your item is, most of the time, a bad situation. However, there is a new item added in Generation 9, named; MIRROR HERB. It copies your opponents stat changes EXACTLY. No matter if low, no matter if high. It always copies. But what would it copy? You can use SWAGGER on an opponent to increase their attack by two stages, THEN Grafaiai uses Mirror Herb to copy that +2 attack, then gain a free +2 speed. But it is insanely bad to increase your own opponent's stats, you may say. But swagger actually CONFUSES your enemy. Mirror Herb only copies stat changes, not status conditions. Also, you can also use swagger on a special-attacking pokemon like CHI-YU, GLIMMORA, IRON VALIANT. As I said earlier, Grafaiai gets the moves; GunkShot/PoisonJab, KnockOff, LowKick, Acrobatics. You can use dark-fighting-flying combo and nothing will stop you except for DEDENNE and DONDO-

WTF!

252+ Atk Grafaiai Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dondozo: 154-183 (34.9 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

LMAOOOOOOO

252+ Atk Grafaiai Tera Dark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 282-332 (68.4 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Grafaiai Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 188-222 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- Guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Grafaiai Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 236-278 (45.9 - 54%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO

Yeah. Nothing stops this except for DEDENNE (and tank dnite....).

Garafii

Grafaiai @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swagger
- Knock Off
- Low Kick
- Acrobatics

REPLAYS

For now, I only have a few games with it. But I will keep updating it as I get more games.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1751526498-3fn44yflg86s1g2vmn0ytqjrzcy8uabpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1751521672-w28so8jshm97wz5n2pjazgkjbut5e4rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1751570758 (barely, but you saw HOW MUCH Grafaiai did to that stupid duck unboosted bro.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1751585772 (this guy was running MAX HP MAX DEF Great Tusk. Aint no way people actually use that set. Proof:)

CALC

+2 252+ Atk Grafaiai Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 252-298 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Grafaiai Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Great Tusk: 306-362 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1754348244

 

[Finchinator]

If you are nominating a Pokemon to be ranked (meaning it was previously unranked), then you need to provide replays of it being used in the metagame

A reminder pertaining to UR to ranked nominations.

 

[IamNotInPain]

I’m not sure how to nominate a mon, so let me know if I did something wrong

Also I’m on my phone, so I can’t check if other people have mentioned this. If They did, just tell me and I’ll find the response

C tier to C+ or B-

Why is gallade C tier? I feel like it’s around B- tier, at least C+. It puts in a lot of work on my screens team, it gets an agility off and starts going.

It’s deceptively strong with sharpness.
Adamant life orb does 39.7-47 to donDozo, 2hkos defensive tusk, chomp, and skeledirge. oh, it also OHKOs basically everything else.

Not to mention that it outspeeds basically everything except for base 109+ scarfers if it’s adamant. If it’s jolly, however, you need base 120 scarfers to outspeed it. Plus, none of those mons actually want to switch in on it.

It’s also a great terastilization user! Tera fighting, psychic, and dark all work, Tera psychic let’s you kill defensive tusk, Tera dark against skeledirge, and Tera fighting just adds some extra power to your strongest attack.

Tera fighting sacred sword let’s you 2HKO defensive tusk, and 252 hp, 252 def, impish dondozo. It also allows you to run jolly without missing out on crucial 2HKOs

It’s not like it’s difficult to set up with either. On screen teams, you can mostly just click agility and pick up some kills. It isn’t exactly paper-thin defensively as well, it’s specially bulk is actually quite nice

If it’s so strong, fast, and easy to set up, then why isn’t it B+ or even A tier? Well, there are a few issues holding it back. Scarf meowscarada does do a lot with flower trick, dondozo can force you out with yawn, skeledirge can survive a hit and burn, and grimsnarl can paralyze it. There’s also iron valiant, with a booster energy it does outspeed adamant gallade.

However, all of these issues can be worked around. Scarf meowscarada isn’t that common (I think?), dondozo doesn’t want to switch in on Tera fighting sacred sword, grimmsnarl functions as more of a suicide lead, and skeledirge can be beat if you predict it with night slash on the switch. With some of the paradox mons, you can pack a counter - once their booster energy is gone you can kill them.

The biggest issue for it i Tera mons like flying garg and fairy dirge

TY FOR READING!!

Edit: adding some calcs in a spoiler below

Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Tera Fighting Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 268-317 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 200-238 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Adding more later cause I gtg

 

[Magcargo]

I’m not sure how to nominate a mon, so let me know if I did something wrong

Also I’m on my phone, so I can’t check if other people have mentioned this. If They did, just tell me and I’ll find the response

View attachment 477654C tier to C+ or B-

Why is gallade C tier? I feel like it’s around B- tier, at least C+. It puts in a lot of work on my screens team, it gets an agility off and starts going.

It’s deceptively strong with sharpness.
Adamant life orb does 39.7-47 to donDozo, 2hkos defensive tusk, chomp, and skeledirge. oh, it also OHKOs basically everything else.

Not to mention that it outspeeds basically everything except for base 109+ scarfers if it’s adamant. If it’s jolly, however, you need base 120 scarfers to outspeed it. Plus, none of those mons actually want to switch in on it.

It’s also a great terastilization user! Tera fighting, psychic, and dark all work, Tera psychic let’s you kill defensive tusk, Tera dark against skeledirge, and Tera fighting just adds some extra power to your strongest attack.

Tera fighting sacred sword let’s you 2HKO defensive tusk, and 252 hp, 252 def, impish dondozo. It also allows you to run jolly without missing out on crucial 2HKOs

It’s not like it’s difficult to set up with either. On screen teams, you can mostly just click agility and pick up some kills. It isn’t exactly paper-thin defensively as well, it’s specially bulk is actually quite nice

If it’s so strong, fast, and easy to set up, then why isn’t it B+ or even A tier? Well, there are a few issues holding it back. Scarf meowscarada does do a lot with flower trick, dondozo can force you out with yawn, skeledirge can survive a hit and burn, and grimsnarl can paralyze it. There’s also iron valiant, with a booster energy it does outspeed adamant gallade.

However, all of these issues can be worked around. Scarf meowscarada isn’t that common (I think?), dondozo doesn’t want to switch in on Tera fighting sacred sword, grimmsnarl functions as more of a suicide lead, and skeledirge can be beat if you predict it with night slash on the switch. With some of the paradox mons, you can pack a counter - once their booster energy is gone you can kill them.

The biggest issue for it i Tera mons like flying garg and fairy dirge

TY FOR READING!!

Edit: adding some calcs in a spoiler below

Calcs

View attachment 477664
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Tera Fighting Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 268-317 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 200-238 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Adding more later cause I gtg

Well, being good on Screens teams isn't exactly saying much since a lot of Pokemon are very good under Screens, especially Pokemon like Dragonite and Anihilape. However, being a sweeper not easily stopped by unaware Pokemon is certainly a nice trait to have in this meta. It also has OK Mus vs some of the regenerator Pokemon like Pex and Amoongus too, while also not being stopped by Dark Types too well either like some of its competition. However, what probably puts it below other Pokemon is that it needs to be run on specialized team styles compared to its competitor, since while it's bulk on the special side is ok, its physical ibulk is lacking and it notably doesn't have many resistances it can leverage to pivot into stuff on its own. I've seen Scarf do some work on more "general" teamstyles but idk if that set is good on its own or Moreno due to its surprise factor.

 

[noiceVGC]

awesome

 

[IamNotInPain]

Well, being good on Screens teams isn't exactly saying much since a lot of Pokemon are very good under Screens, especially Pokemon like Dragonite and Anihilape. However, being a sweeper not easily stopped by unaware Pokemon is certainly a nice trait to have in this meta. It also has OK Mus vs some of the regenerator Pokemon like Pex and Amoongus too, while also not being stopped by Dark Types too well either like some of its competition. However, what probably puts it below other Pokemon is that it needs to be run on specialized team styles compared to its competitor, since while it's bulk on the special side is ok, its physical ibulk is lacking and it notably doesn't have many resistances it can leverage to pivot into stuff on its own. I've seen Scarf do some work on more "general" teamstyles but idk if that set is good on its own or Moreno due to its surprise factor.

I didn’t really say this in the post, but honestly it doesn’t need screens to function. You can still threaten many defensive mons with no boost, and if you’re full health, just click agility. As long as you survive with above 10% of your health, you’re basically guaranteed to get at lease one KO

Additionaly, another Pokémon, espathra, I read on this page, was only good on screens and cyclizar teams. I’m not saying that gallade is as good as espathra, nowhere close, I’m just saying that it should be in B-.

about the scarf set:I think that it’s quite good on its own, but agility is better because without life orb you do end up missing a few crucial kos

 

[JoarAddamNessosin]

Garchomp A- up to A

Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin is really solid with all of the spinners sans Ice Spinner dons. It can set up rocks on pretty much all of the other hazzard setters and Dragon Tail lets it phase all non-fairys. It out speeds non-scarf cheese stick while still having room to invest in bulk. While most of the set up dragons can win 1v1 the chip from helm/skin + the possibility of rocks puts all of them in range for revenge killing. Uninvested its atk still hits decently hard. IMO it's other sets are pretty mid but they do exist and can surprise people expecting helm/skin, it also runs a pile of various spreads depending on what you need it to check although you want the 240spe to beat base 100+cheese stick. I know half a letter isn't a huge jump but it's such a shame to see it with a minus while it rekts tf out of maushold using population bomb and it deserves the bump just for helping push the rat into uunranked.

Calcs

252+ Atk Maushold-Four Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 270-330 (64.7 - 79.1%) -- approx. 2HKO

0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 284-336 (90.1 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Gholdengo Dazzling Gleam vs. 240 HP / 28+ SpD Garchomp: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 240 HP / 28+ SpD Garchomp: 368-436 (88.2 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO

0+ Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 336-396 (80.5 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 408-480 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 290-342 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 216-254 (61.5 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Roaring Moon: 108-127 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- 51% chance to 3HKO

I recognize these calcs dont seem impressive when looked at individually but this is one set doing all of these. Chomp definitely isnt A+/S but i think it is just a step about the other A- mons with the exception of dirge but thats a separate post.

 

[Ehmcee]

I’m not sure how to nominate a mon, so let me know if I did something wrong

Also I’m on my phone, so I can’t check if other people have mentioned this. If They did, just tell me and I’ll find the response

View attachment 477654C tier to C+ or B-

Why is gallade C tier? I feel like it’s around B- tier, at least C+. It puts in a lot of work on my screens team, it gets an agility off and starts going.

It’s deceptively strong with sharpness.
Adamant life orb does 39.7-47 to donDozo, 2hkos defensive tusk, chomp, and skeledirge. oh, it also OHKOs basically everything else.

Not to mention that it outspeeds basically everything except for base 109+ scarfers if it’s adamant. If it’s jolly, however, you need base 120 scarfers to outspeed it. Plus, none of those mons actually want to switch in on it.

It’s also a great terastilization user! Tera fighting, psychic, and dark all work, Tera psychic let’s you kill defensive tusk, Tera dark against skeledirge, and Tera fighting just adds some extra power to your strongest attack.

Tera fighting sacred sword let’s you 2HKO defensive tusk, and 252 hp, 252 def, impish dondozo. It also allows you to run jolly without missing out on crucial 2HKOs

It’s not like it’s difficult to set up with either. On screen teams, you can mostly just click agility and pick up some kills. It isn’t exactly paper-thin defensively as well, it’s specially bulk is actually quite nice

If it’s so strong, fast, and easy to set up, then why isn’t it B+ or even A tier? Well, there are a few issues holding it back. Scarf meowscarada does do a lot with flower trick, dondozo can force you out with yawn, skeledirge can survive a hit and burn, and grimsnarl can paralyze it. There’s also iron valiant, with a booster energy it does outspeed adamant gallade.

However, all of these issues can be worked around. Scarf meowscarada isn’t that common (I think?), dondozo doesn’t want to switch in on Tera fighting sacred sword, grimmsnarl functions as more of a suicide lead, and skeledirge can be beat if you predict it with night slash on the switch. With some of the paradox mons, you can pack a counter - once their booster energy is gone you can kill them.

The biggest issue for it i Tera mons like flying garg and fairy dirge

TY FOR READING!!

Edit: adding some calcs in a spoiler below

Calcs

View attachment 477664
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Tera Fighting Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 268-317 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Dondozo: 200-238 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Adding more later cause I gtg

I think it's extremely hard to justify using Gallade while Iron Valiant exists.
Being so heavily outclassed in speed as well as Valiant being able to reliably run a mixed offensive set offsets the slight power decrease it has compared to sharpness Gallade, especially against most bulky mons that mainly spec into one defensive stat (like Dondozo or Clodsire) makes me feel like there isn't a huge reason to slot it currently.


Mixed Valiant:

Iron Valiant @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt
- Agility / Thunderbolt



Gallade's setup sets are also heavily outclassed by booster energy valiant with SD,

Setup Valiant (Speed Boost Booster)

Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast / Spirit Break
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut



Overall I'm just not convinced of it being above D rank while Iron Valiant exists