Something like dondozo or another bulky water
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Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]
- Thread starter Finchinator
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rotom-wash seems to synergize with dirge particularly well from my experience
If you don't use Golden Joe tho, Spore is really OP and hard to switch into. Sash Loom also has good MU'S vs important mons like Iron Treads and Great Tusk. I think it could go even higher since Bulldoze really owns Golden Joe. Most of the time when I run Golden Joe or Amongus, it's to specifically counter Loom since I have no good Spore switch-ins otherwise.
I'm afraid I'm a little confused about Great Tusk calcs, my calc gave me something different...
252+ Atk Great Tusk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Brambleghast: 204-242 (64.9 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also yeah as a strong Brambleghast advocate myself, you really do need Strength Sap if you hope to switch in vs Great Tusk. Here's my set:
Bram Bram! (Brambleghast) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 2 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Night Shade
- Strength Sap
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
The team I've built using this has gone 29-2 so far and I can say with confidence that it's not complete, utter garbage. Suggestions welcome!
You've forgotten to give Brambleghast an item in that calc, that's why it's so weak
ohhh my bad! thanks for catching that, I completely missed it! I suppose maybe you could run... itemless Brambleghast??? Not really sure, will continue to experiment.
Anyone think dondozo should be A+? If you can knock out special attackers, it will basically win you the game. And powerful physical attackers are dominant in the meta. I've won a few where it's my last mon left.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9ou-1746653979-ja29kfy6m0enzjw5hn4bh47kc4vmnfppw
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9ou-1746653979-ja29kfy6m0enzjw5hn4bh47kc4vmnfppw
I feel like Iron Hands stands on par with the rest of the A- mons. It's incredibly bulky for an offensive Pokemon (it's physical bulk is even better than Corv's), it has a really nice form of longevity thanks to Drain Punch, and it's able to check most defensive Pokemon in the tier thanks to its coverage. Basically, it's Melmetal but faster. Aside from the above reasons, it is able to run a good amount of sets, including the Choice Band and Swords Dance sets currently on the website, an Assault Vest set in order to improve its below average Special Defense, and possibly an Iron Defense + Body Press set that takes advantage of its fantastic physical bulk. Despite its rather poor Special Defense, its HP stat is able to compensate for this, and with Assault Vest, it becomes more difficult to handle for some special attackers. Aside from these, it can utilize Terastalization in order to fix matchups it struggles against, like Iron Valiant.
Now here is the damage Iron Hands does against most defensive Pokemon in the tier. I've used sets such as standard special defensive, as well as physical defensive investment:
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 524-618 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 434-512 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 546-644 (117.9 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Clodsire: 396-466 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 324-384 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 524-618 (129.7 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 396-468 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 366-432 (89 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 264-312 (64.2 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 272-320 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 576-680 (137.1 - 161.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 408-484 (97.1 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 594-698 (150.7 - 177.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 434-512 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 546-644 (117.9 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Clodsire: 396-466 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 324-384 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 524-618 (129.7 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 396-468 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 366-432 (89 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 264-312 (64.2 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 272-320 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 576-680 (137.1 - 161.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 408-484 (97.1 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 594-698 (150.7 - 177.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I also agree with the Gargnacl and Quaquaval rise noms.
grass/fighting is pretty solid against quite a few meta-relevant pokemon, namely chi-yu, great tusk, chien-pao, roaring moon, dondozo, etc. it's just that pokemon like skeledirge, corviknight and especially the aforementioned gholdengo that limit its potential. i think it's fairly rated in the VR if i'm being honest
i think gholdengo singlehandedly validates this nomination. the other pokemon you mentioned can very well give corviknight at least some trouble but gholdengo is a straight-up hard counter. i definitely think corv can rise back to A rank once ghold gets banned but as of now? i think it warrants a small drop.This is going to be a bit controversial but:
A -> A-
I’m really not at all excited about Corviknight in the current meta. We’re in an unprecedented point in the hazards metagame where Defog is…bad compared to Rapid Spin, and it’s all thanks to both Gholdengo and Annihilape . Yes, both can spinblock, as well, but Gholdengo is a straight up Defogblocker (Arceus help you if you’re up against Recover Gholdengo who just sits on Corviknight forever) and Annihilape takes advantage of Defog with Defiant. You’re in a better position to fail a Spin against Annihilape than using Defog on it. Even worse, Annihilape also takes advantage of Corviknight’s U-turn, boosting the power of Rage Fist. Tera’d Annihilape only makes Corviknight’s matchup against it even worse since it’s no longer Brave Bird-weak. Even without Tera, Annihilape only needs one Bulk Up for BB to do nothing against it.
The problems don’t end with the hazard game, though. The meta is simply way too offensive for this Pokémon to get much done, and so many premier threats take advantage of it. Within this screens HO meta, the fact the best Pokémon in the game can just say “no” to your Defog attempts to clear the screens away is a huge negative.
The Chien-Pao matchup seems like it’d be in Corv’s favor at first glance, but Banded sets can 2HKO it after rocks, and Tera Ice or Dark remove Pao’s 4x Body Press weakness and make Corv more susceptible to Pao’s boosted STABs. Roaring Moon can just U-turn out of it, but Tera Dark Banded Crunch, or Protosynthesis Atk boosted in Sun can 2HKO it. Iron Valiant likes to tech Thunderbolt for it. The Dragapult matchup is an 50/50 between the positive physical matchup vs the bad Specs matchup. Even Floatzel is a threat to this mon. Tera-Water Banded Wave Crash in Rain is an OHKO after Stealth Rock. Insanity.
Even the defensive Garganacl gives it trouble. Salt Cure vaporizes Corv for 25% health each turn, forcing it to burn through its limited Roosts more often than it would like to.
Not all is lost, though. The fact Corv can come in on the tier’s many good Ground-types is a great aspect, but there’s some caveats. Both Paradox Donphans have access to Knock Off, and a Corviknight without leftovers will find it harder to withstand the tier’s offensive juggernauts (like the aforementioned Chien-Pao). Worse still, Iron Treads in particular can just Volt Switch out of it as Corv comes in, gaining momentum.
Overall, I don’t feel Corv is thriving as well as the other A ranked Pokémon given how the metagame is treating it right now. I know this is a controversial take, so I’m down to hear your thoughts and I could be swayed. However, rn I’m not all that excited for this mon. It’ll get better with time if some of these broken threats get banned, though, but its time isn’t now.
EDIT; forgot to mention some of Corviknight’s other sets besides Defog; Bulk Up or Iron defense. They’re better than the Defog set, but they’re not that great either tbh. Both Skeledirge and Dondozo ignore the stat boosts and proceed to use IT as set up fodder, and Gholdengo can simply trick it a Scarf to cripple the set for good. Not great.
also i don't think corviknight loses that many matchups? i guess it depends on your EV spread since i'm pretty sure corv can tank attacks from the likes of CB chien-pao or DD roaring moon when fully invested into defense
Welp, Cinderace is coming back it seems so Gholdengo should be easier to deal with, so it seems we likely will not have to suspect it... Corv should be A- for now though, still think it is probably fine at A though since it even if it is 2hko'd by banded Chien Pao, Corviknight usually needs to not get flinched by icicle crash and it usually counters all variants of Chien Pao, so being a Chien Pao counter may be enough to keep it A.
Got more than a few noms of my own here, although some echo previous noms to some degree as well:
S- --> S
I don't think Great Tusk is necessarily a top 2 mon in every sense (I think Chi-Yu is more overtly strong than Tusk, for instance), but I think Great Tusk deserves to share the same subrank as Gholdengo due to its sheer importance in the teambuilding process. I don't think it's out of place in S-, of course, but I think that the sheer amount of role compression offered by Great Tusk both offensively and defensively puts it at the same level of importance as Gholdengo (or, at least, a more similar level than Tusk relative to the S- mons). Like Gholdengo, Great Tusk is just such a fundamentally strong mon that many teams (but not all) are just better for having it.
A+ --> S-
This was obviously a split vote from the Council, so I figured I'd echo other sentiments regarding bumping it up a subrank. Annihilape definitely has the threat level of an S-rank mon; no mon punishes aggressive, offensive options quite like Annihilape, and it's a mon that I believe has the most blatant effect on turn-to-turn gameplay and teambuilding alike just because of the threat of buffing a Rage Fist plus the monkey's extremely lopsided matchups against slower teams that depend more on status than direct damage.
A --> A+
This is arguably the best defensive mon in the tier due to its unparalleled ability to force progress against basically any team archetype with Salt Cure alone. I think it's a clear cut above A right now, and while it does make A+ a little crowded I think that accurately reflects the meta to some degree because there's just so many powerful threats running around. Garg is borderline-impossible to safely switch in against and it's arguably the best Tera abuser in the game right now, which makes even a mon with what amounts to one set in the grand scheme of things extremely difficult to muscle past offensively since it doesn't have much in the way of universal counterplay since just changing its defensive typing is enough to make it hugely problematic. I don't think the meta necessarily shifted in its favor; I just think its inherently amazing traits have opened up more opportunities to abuse some sort of obscure Tera-typing to beat something (i.e. Ghost to beat opposing non-Ghost Garganacl).
B+ --> A- or even A
It's criminally underrated on ladder for some reason, but I'd argue that Iron Hands is pretty much the new Melmetal in many respects; it can't sweep teams, but it has the combination of insane bulk and power to ensure that it forces trades unlike anything else. I think it's a cut above most of B+ right now, and I even think it's got a lot of room to improve thereafter. Its raw HP and passable SpDef lets it eat a strong special hit in a pinch, while its physical bulk renders it borderline impossible to OHKO on that end without using an extraordinarily strong super effective move like max-Attack Great Tusk's Headlong Rush with a Protosynthesis boost.
A- --> A
Hatt is incredible in this meta; it's arguably the best form of hazard control in OU right now (don't conflate it with "the best mon that also offers hazard control," though; that's Great Tusk) and it sets up on a bunch of top threats with relative ease. It's also an excellent Tera abuser to further enable setup on various threats that can exploit its Psychic typing. It's a clear cut above the majority of A- right now (minus Garchomp which I think also deserves a rise) and would be better-suited for A.
B --> Somewhere higher, but idk where.
Fuck Revival Blessing. That is all. Just being able to bring your own Chi-Yu (or anything super threatening) back from the grave (and, funny enough, offensively check an opposing Chi-Yu pre-Tera thanks to Iron Fist+Mach Punch) is fundamentally absurd and I don't think B reflects just how ridiculous having a move that absurd on a mon with base 105 Speed really is. As long as it just gets one Revival Blessing off, you aren't playing a 5v6 game with it; and in a best-case scenario, you're utilizing Pawmot's highly specific offensive options outside of Revival Blessing and playing a 6.5v6 game.
B- --> B or even B+
I just think Slither Wing is a little out of place here is all; it's an excellent breaker with a decent defensive typing, good bulk, setup options, good coverage, strong priority in First Impression, and reliable recovery in Morning Sun to top it all off. It has a good place on Torkoal teams, and it's still very strong outside of Sun just by virtue of its sheer strength and solid typing/coverage. I'm not too bent out of shape about it being in B-, though; I just think it's better than stuff like Hippo, Orthworm, or Jugulis.
C --> B- (C+ is fine too, though)
I know it's a bit more of a jump, but I think this mon is horribly misplaced where it currently is as well. Ghost/Fire is amazing offensively and it's complemented well by CC, and this thing has juuuuuust enough unpredictability to really punish a stray U-Turn if it's Weak Armor; it's also a pretty decent Tera abuser, since beefing up its STABs gives it a lot more firepower while Tera-Fairy with Flash Fire lets it bully Chi-Yu more than you'd expect while letting it live some stray Sucker Punches. STAB Shadow Sneak is pretty damn valuable in this meta, too, what with all the offensive Ghosts and hazard stacking to chip them down everywhere. Realistically, I could see this thing being a lot better than B- as well simply because it fulfills an almost entirely unique niche as both an offensive Fire-type and as an offensive Ghost-type. Of course, its physical attacking status does leave it completely bricked by Bozo, but that's pretty true of the vast majority of physical attackers.
C --> C+
I'd argue that Floatzel is mostly interchangeable with Barraskewda on Rain teams, and both fit exclusively on Rain teams. Clearly they aren't quite as individually good as Pelipper itself, so that warrants being placed a subrank below Pelipper, but I think Floatzel is just as viable as Barraskewda and should (for now) share a subrank with it. You probably won't run both on the same Rain squad, but you definitely will run one or the other depending on your preference between Barraskewda's Speed and coverage or Floatzel's ridiculously strong STAB.
D --> UR
Maybe a stretch? I just figured I'd bring this up, though, because I really don't think Tidy Up is quite good enough for this thing to be ranked. Otherwise, it's just a massive gimmick and not one that I can see fitting on teams except in the hands of some very, very experienced builders. It's just too specific for me to justify having it ranked here, but maybe someone might be able to convince me otherwise.
S- --> SI don't think Great Tusk is necessarily a top 2 mon in every sense (I think Chi-Yu is more overtly strong than Tusk, for instance), but I think Great Tusk deserves to share the same subrank as Gholdengo due to its sheer importance in the teambuilding process. I don't think it's out of place in S-, of course, but I think that the sheer amount of role compression offered by Great Tusk both offensively and defensively puts it at the same level of importance as Gholdengo (or, at least, a more similar level than Tusk relative to the S- mons). Like Gholdengo, Great Tusk is just such a fundamentally strong mon that many teams (but not all) are just better for having it.
A+ --> S-This was obviously a split vote from the Council, so I figured I'd echo other sentiments regarding bumping it up a subrank. Annihilape definitely has the threat level of an S-rank mon; no mon punishes aggressive, offensive options quite like Annihilape, and it's a mon that I believe has the most blatant effect on turn-to-turn gameplay and teambuilding alike just because of the threat of buffing a Rage Fist plus the monkey's extremely lopsided matchups against slower teams that depend more on status than direct damage.
A --> A+This is arguably the best defensive mon in the tier due to its unparalleled ability to force progress against basically any team archetype with Salt Cure alone. I think it's a clear cut above A right now, and while it does make A+ a little crowded I think that accurately reflects the meta to some degree because there's just so many powerful threats running around. Garg is borderline-impossible to safely switch in against and it's arguably the best Tera abuser in the game right now, which makes even a mon with what amounts to one set in the grand scheme of things extremely difficult to muscle past offensively since it doesn't have much in the way of universal counterplay since just changing its defensive typing is enough to make it hugely problematic. I don't think the meta necessarily shifted in its favor; I just think its inherently amazing traits have opened up more opportunities to abuse some sort of obscure Tera-typing to beat something (i.e. Ghost to beat opposing non-Ghost Garganacl).
B+ --> A- or even AIt's criminally underrated on ladder for some reason, but I'd argue that Iron Hands is pretty much the new Melmetal in many respects; it can't sweep teams, but it has the combination of insane bulk and power to ensure that it forces trades unlike anything else. I think it's a cut above most of B+ right now, and I even think it's got a lot of room to improve thereafter. Its raw HP and passable SpDef lets it eat a strong special hit in a pinch, while its physical bulk renders it borderline impossible to OHKO on that end without using an extraordinarily strong super effective move like max-Attack Great Tusk's Headlong Rush with a Protosynthesis boost.
A- --> AHatt is incredible in this meta; it's arguably the best form of hazard control in OU right now (don't conflate it with "the best mon that also offers hazard control," though; that's Great Tusk) and it sets up on a bunch of top threats with relative ease. It's also an excellent Tera abuser to further enable setup on various threats that can exploit its Psychic typing. It's a clear cut above the majority of A- right now (minus Garchomp which I think also deserves a rise) and would be better-suited for A.
B --> Somewhere higher, but idk where.Fuck Revival Blessing. That is all. Just being able to bring your own Chi-Yu (or anything super threatening) back from the grave (and, funny enough, offensively check an opposing Chi-Yu pre-Tera thanks to Iron Fist+Mach Punch) is fundamentally absurd and I don't think B reflects just how ridiculous having a move that absurd on a mon with base 105 Speed really is. As long as it just gets one Revival Blessing off, you aren't playing a 5v6 game with it; and in a best-case scenario, you're utilizing Pawmot's highly specific offensive options outside of Revival Blessing and playing a 6.5v6 game.
B- --> B or even B+I just think Slither Wing is a little out of place here is all; it's an excellent breaker with a decent defensive typing, good bulk, setup options, good coverage, strong priority in First Impression, and reliable recovery in Morning Sun to top it all off. It has a good place on Torkoal teams, and it's still very strong outside of Sun just by virtue of its sheer strength and solid typing/coverage. I'm not too bent out of shape about it being in B-, though; I just think it's better than stuff like Hippo, Orthworm, or Jugulis.
C --> B- (C+ is fine too, though)I know it's a bit more of a jump, but I think this mon is horribly misplaced where it currently is as well. Ghost/Fire is amazing offensively and it's complemented well by CC, and this thing has juuuuuust enough unpredictability to really punish a stray U-Turn if it's Weak Armor; it's also a pretty decent Tera abuser, since beefing up its STABs gives it a lot more firepower while Tera-Fairy with Flash Fire lets it bully Chi-Yu more than you'd expect while letting it live some stray Sucker Punches. STAB Shadow Sneak is pretty damn valuable in this meta, too, what with all the offensive Ghosts and hazard stacking to chip them down everywhere. Realistically, I could see this thing being a lot better than B- as well simply because it fulfills an almost entirely unique niche as both an offensive Fire-type and as an offensive Ghost-type. Of course, its physical attacking status does leave it completely bricked by Bozo, but that's pretty true of the vast majority of physical attackers.
C --> C+I'd argue that Floatzel is mostly interchangeable with Barraskewda on Rain teams, and both fit exclusively on Rain teams. Clearly they aren't quite as individually good as Pelipper itself, so that warrants being placed a subrank below Pelipper, but I think Floatzel is just as viable as Barraskewda and should (for now) share a subrank with it. You probably won't run both on the same Rain squad, but you definitely will run one or the other depending on your preference between Barraskewda's Speed and coverage or Floatzel's ridiculously strong STAB.
D --> URMaybe a stretch? I just figured I'd bring this up, though, because I really don't think Tidy Up is quite good enough for this thing to be ranked. Otherwise, it's just a massive gimmick and not one that I can see fitting on teams except in the hands of some very, very experienced builders. It's just too specific for me to justify having it ranked here, but maybe someone might be able to convince me otherwise.
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Talking about suspects in this thread is irrelevant to begin with but the addition of one extra check is usually not enough to make the difference between suspectable and non-suspectable. For all we know Cinderace won't even want to run Court Change on its moveset.
Concurring with this, honestly; Maushold is a one-trick pony. Sure, it can kill everything that doesn't resist Normal after a Tidy Up, but it's walled by the best 'mon in the tier and removing your own hazards makes closing the game harder unless you've been playing the long game to stack up damage. And at that point just run a more consistent fat team. Also, getting the hazard removal on Ghlodengo doesn't mean much when Great Tusk can do the same thing, is more consistently threatening outside of that, and can easily switch in multiple times in one match.
Maybe a stretch? I just figured I'd bring this up, though, because I really don't think Tidy Up is quite good enough for this thing to be ranked. Otherwise, it's just a massive gimmick and not one that I can see fitting on teams except in the hands of some very, very experienced builders. It's just too specific for me to justify having it ranked here, but maybe someone might be able to convince be otherwise.
If we were ranking things based on how good they would be for funny YouTube content, Maushold would be S. But this ain't it, so the family should get evicted.
I know this Pokemon was mentioned a few days ago, but I think Tinkaton actually deserves to be ranked. Tinkaton possesses a unique set of tools that allow it to function as an excellent anti-meta choice right now. I have tried a couple different sets on this little gal, but I have had the most success with a Focus Sash Anti-Lead set on hyper offense. Thanks to Mold Breaker and its excellent utility movepool, Tinkaton can successfully get up rocks against any team while also making offensive utility Pokemon like Glimmora, Gholdengo, and Grimmsnarl a liability. Tinkaton can turn defensive Pokemon like Garganacl or Corviknight into liabilities too. On top of that, Tinkaton boasts fantastic typing that can force out common offensive juggernauts like Chien-Pao, Iron Valiant, and Dragapult.
Tinkaton @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Ghost / Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Encore / Brick Break / Thunder Wave
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Ghost / Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Encore / Brick Break / Thunder Wave
Tinkaton does face some pretty stiff competition that makes it a more fringe choice as a lead. Iron Treads boasts higher speed and access to a number of useful utility options like Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and Volt Switch. Glimmora has access to more hazards and can get up hazards passively thanks to Toxic Debris while still being able to spin hazards away with Mortal Spin. Iron Tusk is a lot stronger and bulkier at the cost of some speed and utility options. The constant presence of the aforementioned Donphans and Chi-Yu in this metagame are also problems for Tinkaton, exacerbated by Tinkaton's low bulk and the need to run Gholdengo alongside it.
Here are a few replays showcasing some of what lead Tinkaton is capable of in this metagame.
In this replay, Tinkaton forces out his Chien-Pao lead, allowing me to get SR up for free. Corviknight comes in, and I Knock Off its Leftovers as it Defogs. I SR again while Corviknight uses Body Press. I Encore the Corviknight into Body Press and it KO's Tinkaton, giving me a free switch to Cyclizar to pass a Shed Tail to whatever came in next. This allows me to get damage off on Ting-Lu, which comes in handy later for my double dance Chi-Yu. Bonus: getting rocks up guaranteed the KO on fully SpDef Garganacl with NP + Tera Dark Chi-Yu.
In this one, Tinkaton lead forces my opponent to Tera early into Water Garganacl. I get up SR as it Salt Cures, then I Knock Off as the Garganacl clicks SR himself. I Encore Garganacl into SR, then faint after a couple turns. My opponent probably should have switched out after I Encored, but Gigaton Hammer would have done a nice chunk to anything and the damage on Garganacl was extremely helpful. He doesn't switch though, allowing me to pass a Shed Tail to Air Balloon NP Gholdengo, which he cannot beat.
Oh boy, this is the game that solidified Tinkaton deserving a ranking to me. I lead Tinkaton into my opponent's Loxix, which is forced out as I SR. My opponent goes to Gholdengo (expecting a Fairy move I think), revealing that he is not Air Balloon Gholdengo. My opponent then switches into Glimmora as I Knock Off, followed up by a GH for a KO, though I do give up two layers of Toxic Spikes. He goes Tusk, which I answer with my Air Balloon Gholdengo. Gholdengo gets enough damage on Tusk for Tinkaton to force it out after Gholdengo dies with Tinkaton's sash still intact thanks to its Steel typing. My opponent tanks a GH and SR damage with Dondozo, then pivots to Chi-Yu on the Knock Off. I remove its Choice Specs and ultimately fall to the Chi-Yu, but not before lowering it into range of SR damage. The game is essentially over with the work Tinkaton put in and Cyclizar + Chi-Yu in the back.
In hindsight, I spent way too long writing this post. Please rank Tinkaton so my work isn't all for nothing. (Also: ban Cyclizar)
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Interesting set. Another move that might be worth considering is Thunder Wave. Typically, against Grimmsnarl teams, I lead with NP Chi-Yu or Gholdengo, as these teams may find it difficult to deal w/ the immense pressure that a +2 or +4 Chi-Yu can exert even under screens and Thunder Wave is a great move to put these Pokemon out of commision, esp against Gholdengo which would be immune to status otherwise.
Outside of these mons I don't really have any nominations to make, but why is Rotom-Heat ranked?
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Rises
A- > A/A+: Hatterene is an incredible mon right now Magic Bounce where hazard stacking is common and it itself can act as a win con thanks to Calm Sind set and having good coverage to hit even Steel-types it has good typing defensively with a handful of resist while Tera can help patch certain weakness and make it better defensively has some useful support moves like Nuzzle and Healing Wish that are very much appreciated especially for more offensive teams, this mon is really good right now and helpful for things like Chi-yu or Choice Band Chien Pao to block off hazards, a really good addition for teams whether its Calm Mind or Healing Wish and should be ranked higher to reflect how much better it is.
B+ > A-/ A: Dreadfury made some good points to it already, but this mon is better than most of B+ fairly fat and not easy to break down outside of its mediocre special defense tho the occasional Assault Vest can patch that up and it still hits hards, Electric Fighting is a great offensive typing paired with some useful coverage like Ice Punch and Earthquake makes it difficult to switch into guessing the wrong set and it won't be easy to break depending on the set, overall this mon is a great pick for its defensive and offensive qualities it provides making it slightly better comapred to the other B+ mons.
B- > B: Slither Wings being in B-is weird when it's better than the rest of what it ranked with, great bulk and coverage options defensive wisp sets are bulky to check Scizor, Garchomp, Breloom, and great tusk, and having the form of recovery in Morning Sun while Choice Band is a powerhouse with powerful First Impression and being able to smack hard as well as functioning as a great offensive or defensive pivot with U-Turn, this mon offers a lot more for teams then that of the other mons it shares the same ranking as the other B- mons
Drops
A+ > A: Kingambit is a good mon but doesn't match up with the rest of the A+, while it is an incredible threat it struggles from the rest being A+ in a metagame where Fighting types like Great Tusk, Quaquaval, Iron Hands, and more are everywhere, and as an offensive Dark-type you compete with more immediate threats like Chien-Pao or Roaring Moon since you most likely wanna preserve Kingambit to make better use of Supreme Overlord, even then it's highly vulnerable to priority or some mons can take a hit and straight up beat it like Quaquaval, Dondonzo, and Iron Hands, sometimes you probably want to save a tera for it to make the most out of it, though some games you are most likely to tera a different mon that can help win a game better, other times you would be better of with something else instead of Kingambit prob in a different metagame it may strive even better for rn it should drop since it fails to compare as a A+ mon.
A > A-/ B+: This mon was always overrated, you already know from team structures if it is lead or not and even then Special attackers prevent toxic spikes up, while mons like Hatterene just bounce off hazards and can beat non sludge wave Glimmora's, and spinners like Cylclizar can taunt to prevent hazard being set up, while Iron Treads is immune to Toxic Spikes, even as a suicide lead something like Garchomp can setup hazards and still has it uses more throughout then use a suicide lead since Glimmora really wants to get a couple of hazards up try to get a toxic spike in an attempt weaken something, Offensive sets are probably better since you can catch some stuff by surprise and hit fairly hard tho once it is revealed it can be played around with common defensive cores, while this mon does pair incredibly with Gholdengo most of the time other hazard stackers feel a lot better in its place since they offer more then Glimmora.
B+ > B: Slowking being B+ is weird cause it doesn't match up with the other mons you have to go Tera immediately to check Chi-Yu and Gholdengo better and as a "Psychic"-type when there's a bunch of strong Fighting types running around as well a not a whole bunch of threats to check since you would have to tera to switch into stuff but there are better mons like Ting-Lu or Clodsire that don't have to immediate tera to check important threats, however, the ability to pivot with Chilly Reception despite hail being not having the proper tools to be meta defining and can occasionally check threats, tho calling it a B+ mon is a bit of stretch compared to the rest in that rank.
C+ > C/ UR: While the utility of Pincurchin is nice, this Mon feels a dead weight most of the time you already know what’s it gonna do and even if it’s to help in electric terrain teams to make good use of quark drive it really doesn’t do a whole bunch, you know what it will do and most of the time does nothing but set up terrain and try to get some hazards up, maybe the ability to activate Quark Drive can be useful but even then you have to use it for a team and doesn’t do a whole bunch or is just useless
D > UR: this Mon is practically nonexistent it prob does something here and there but when was the last time anyone has seen it do something, the ability to block priorities may be helpful but if you want a strong special attacker there are better picks.
D > UR: Klefki may have priority spikes or screens but when Grimmsnarl is a much better screen setter while better checking put, and almost every Mon now has access to spikes would you really consider this over the more consistent picks.
D > UR: Dondonzo and Clodsire whole existence just makes this pointless it got hazards but so does Clodsire and Dondonzo are much better as bulky water Unaware user despite it not having Recover, even if it has a slight niche acting as an elec immunity unaware user, but Clodsire is also that and checks important special attackers, there’s literally no reason to use Quagsire over the better unaware users in the tier.
Noms I agree with:
> s
>s-
> A
> C+/B-
Noms I disagree with:
> s-
> a-
In all honesty D rank should be nuked except for a few mons since most of the mons listed there have no reason to be ranked at all while some others have a significant niche that is better than most stuff in that ranking anyways, but that’s a topic for another time.
A- > A/A+: Hatterene is an incredible mon right now Magic Bounce where hazard stacking is common and it itself can act as a win con thanks to Calm Sind set and having good coverage to hit even Steel-types it has good typing defensively with a handful of resist while Tera can help patch certain weakness and make it better defensively has some useful support moves like Nuzzle and Healing Wish that are very much appreciated especially for more offensive teams, this mon is really good right now and helpful for things like Chi-yu or Choice Band Chien Pao to block off hazards, a really good addition for teams whether its Calm Mind or Healing Wish and should be ranked higher to reflect how much better it is. B+ > A-/ A: Dreadfury made some good points to it already, but this mon is better than most of B+ fairly fat and not easy to break down outside of its mediocre special defense tho the occasional Assault Vest can patch that up and it still hits hards, Electric Fighting is a great offensive typing paired with some useful coverage like Ice Punch and Earthquake makes it difficult to switch into guessing the wrong set and it won't be easy to break depending on the set, overall this mon is a great pick for its defensive and offensive qualities it provides making it slightly better comapred to the other B+ mons. B- > B: Slither Wings being in B-is weird when it's better than the rest of what it ranked with, great bulk and coverage options defensive wisp sets are bulky to check Scizor, Garchomp, Breloom, and great tusk, and having the form of recovery in Morning Sun while Choice Band is a powerhouse with powerful First Impression and being able to smack hard as well as functioning as a great offensive or defensive pivot with U-Turn, this mon offers a lot more for teams then that of the other mons it shares the same ranking as the other B- monsDrops
A+ > A: Kingambit is a good mon but doesn't match up with the rest of the A+, while it is an incredible threat it struggles from the rest being A+ in a metagame where Fighting types like Great Tusk, Quaquaval, Iron Hands, and more are everywhere, and as an offensive Dark-type you compete with more immediate threats like Chien-Pao or Roaring Moon since you most likely wanna preserve Kingambit to make better use of Supreme Overlord, even then it's highly vulnerable to priority or some mons can take a hit and straight up beat it like Quaquaval, Dondonzo, and Iron Hands, sometimes you probably want to save a tera for it to make the most out of it, though some games you are most likely to tera a different mon that can help win a game better, other times you would be better of with something else instead of Kingambit prob in a different metagame it may strive even better for rn it should drop since it fails to compare as a A+ mon. A > A-/ B+: This mon was always overrated, you already know from team structures if it is lead or not and even then Special attackers prevent toxic spikes up, while mons like Hatterene just bounce off hazards and can beat non sludge wave Glimmora's, and spinners like Cylclizar can taunt to prevent hazard being set up, while Iron Treads is immune to Toxic Spikes, even as a suicide lead something like Garchomp can setup hazards and still has it uses more throughout then use a suicide lead since Glimmora really wants to get a couple of hazards up try to get a toxic spike in an attempt weaken something, Offensive sets are probably better since you can catch some stuff by surprise and hit fairly hard tho once it is revealed it can be played around with common defensive cores, while this mon does pair incredibly with Gholdengo most of the time other hazard stackers feel a lot better in its place since they offer more then Glimmora. B+ > B: Slowking being B+ is weird cause it doesn't match up with the other mons you have to go Tera immediately to check Chi-Yu and Gholdengo better and as a "Psychic"-type when there's a bunch of strong Fighting types running around as well a not a whole bunch of threats to check since you would have to tera to switch into stuff but there are better mons like Ting-Lu or Clodsire that don't have to immediate tera to check important threats, however, the ability to pivot with Chilly Reception despite hail being not having the proper tools to be meta defining and can occasionally check threats, tho calling it a B+ mon is a bit of stretch compared to the rest in that rank. C+ > C/ UR: While the utility of Pincurchin is nice, this Mon feels a dead weight most of the time you already know what’s it gonna do and even if it’s to help in electric terrain teams to make good use of quark drive it really doesn’t do a whole bunch, you know what it will do and most of the time does nothing but set up terrain and try to get some hazards up, maybe the ability to activate Quark Drive can be useful but even then you have to use it for a team and doesn’t do a whole bunch or is just useless D > UR: this Mon is practically nonexistent it prob does something here and there but when was the last time anyone has seen it do something, the ability to block priorities may be helpful but if you want a strong special attacker there are better picks. D > UR: Klefki may have priority spikes or screens but when Grimmsnarl is a much better screen setter while better checking put, and almost every Mon now has access to spikes would you really consider this over the more consistent picks. D > UR: Dondonzo and Clodsire whole existence just makes this pointless it got hazards but so does Clodsire and Dondonzo are much better as bulky water Unaware user despite it not having Recover, even if it has a slight niche acting as an elec immunity unaware user, but Clodsire is also that and checks important special attackers, there’s literally no reason to use Quagsire over the better unaware users in the tier.Noms I agree with:
> s >s- > A > C+/B-Noms I disagree with:
> s- > a-In all honesty D rank should be nuked except for a few mons since most of the mons listed there have no reason to be ranked at all while some others have a significant niche that is better than most stuff in that ranking anyways, but that’s a topic for another time.
I feel like the only reason I haven’t seen this nom yet is because the mon that it focuses on is likely to get banned some time in the upcoming weeks, however, I think we should have the absurd power of it recorded here somewhere before that happens.
S- -> S
This is one of those mons where you either need to have it, or you need to be able to counter it, however its pool of counters is extremely limited, and the counters themselves make their name off of “beating” chi-yu.
Ting-lu and tyranitar are these counters, however chi-yu can very easily wear through the former with little effort, and ttar is just kinda meh. Against teams that don’t have these, you either need to choose something to kill off, or bring in your own chi-yu.
This dumbass goldfish is dominating the metagame and warping everything around it, and for that reason I think it is easily the best mon in the tier, especially considering that this warping has been unable to find a single solid check for it so far.
S- -> SThis is one of those mons where you either need to have it, or you need to be able to counter it, however its pool of counters is extremely limited, and the counters themselves make their name off of “beating” chi-yu.
Ting-lu and tyranitar are these counters, however chi-yu can very easily wear through the former with little effort, and ttar is just kinda meh. Against teams that don’t have these, you either need to choose something to kill off, or bring in your own chi-yu.
This dumbass goldfish is dominating the metagame and warping everything around it, and for that reason I think it is easily the best mon in the tier, especially considering that this warping has been unable to find a single solid check for it so far.
really? you think corviknight should remain as an A rank pokemon when gholdengo is one of the most dominant pokemon in the current metagame? i think corv is good but ghold seriously holds it back from being as high as it is. i agreed with all of the posts nominating it to A- instead of A but i'd like to hear why you don't believe that to be the caseNoms I disagree with:
In all honesty D rank should be nuked except for a few mons since most of the mons listed there have no reason to be ranked at all while some others have a significant niche that is better than most stuff in that ranking anyways, but that’s a topic for another time.
TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
I agree with your rises and most of your drops, but I definitely think you're underestimating Slowking and Pincurchin.Rises
Drops
Noms I agree with:
Noms I disagree with:
In all honesty D rank should be nuked except for a few mons since most of the mons listed there have no reason to be ranked at all while some others have a significant niche that is better than most stuff in that ranking anyways, but that’s a topic for another time.
Slowking is an amazing special wall in a tier full of OP special attackers, and can provide excellent support for its team through Future Sight and Chilly Reception. It is true that it relies on Tera to beat mons like Chi-Yu, Gholdengo and Pult, but it has such excellent matchups against so many top tier threats after Terastallizing that it definitely doesn't deserve to be rated any lower than it currently is. You're undervaluing Chilly Reception; it's a tool that is entirely unique to Slowking that grabs momentum for your team, synergises amazingly with FS + Regen, and provides Snow support, which not only gives a fair bit of physical bulk to Baxcalibur and Chien-Pao, but also gets rid of opposing weathers like the popular Sun. I think B+ is fair for Slowking giving its reliance on Tera, but it has so many strong and unique traits in this meta that it would be unreasonable to rank it any lower.
As for Pincurchin, I don't really see the point you're trying to make? Like yeah, you know it's going to set Terrain and try and get Spikes up, but what else does it need to do? It's certainly not Koko, but it gets its job done. Pincurchin is surprisingly bulky with max investment, which makes keeping Terrain up fairly easy so long as you're not fighting a bunch of Ice Spinner mons, and lets it fairly reliably get Spikes up and spread Paralysis and chip around with Terrain boosted Discharge. I think E Terrain itself as a playstyle is pretty underrated; being able to run around with +1 Speed Specs Valiant is no joke, and other abusers like Moth and Hands are fantastic too. You do hate Chien-Pao and Ice Spinner Tusk, but Iron Hands beats Chien-Pao very reliably, and Valiant is a massive threat to Tusk. Pincurchin is overall a pretty weak mon, but I think its niche in being the sole enabler of E Terrain as a playstyle combined with its good utility options earns it a C+ ranking.
EDIT: Pincurchin also gets Sucker which is actually surprisingly useful at catching people off guard and beating weakened Gholdengo, Pult etc. and Recover to keep itself healthy. It really wishes it got Volt Switch, but regardless it definitely has utility outside of just setting Terrain (not that you would want to use it outside of E Terrain teams mind)
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Chi-Yu shouldn't be S, it needs the banhammer. Let's just hope we can finish Tera suspect test first so the council can quickban it.I feel like the only reason I haven’t seen this nom yet is because the mon that it focuses on is likely to get banned some time in the upcoming weeks, however, I think we should have the absurd power of it recorded here somewhere before that happens.
This is one of those mons where you either need to have it, or you need to be able to counter it, however its pool of counters is extremely limited, and the counters themselves make their name off of “beating” chi-yu.
Ting-lu and tyranitar are these counters, however chi-yu can very easily wear through the former with little effort, and ttar is just kinda meh. Against teams that don’t have these, you either need to choose something to kill off, or bring in your own chi-yu.
This dumbass goldfish is dominating the metagame and warping everything around it, and for that reason I think it is easily the best mon in the tier, especially considering that this warping has been unable to find a single solid check for it so far.
Is definitely an S- rank mon. One of the best abusers of tera and booster energy along with its near unprecedented mixed attacking stats and fantastic speed make it one of the most difficult mons to lock down in the game. Two of the best spammable, if not simply the best, moves as STAB options in CC and Moonblast make sets like specs and band fantastic, and as a scarf/booster energy its able to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame along with common speed boosting mons like dragonite, gholdengo via scarf, and great tusk. It has an amazing defensive typing, that even in spite of its mediocre defenses, allow it plenty of opportunities to come in; ala something like gen a 4 lucario. Valiant also has good matchups versus most of the heavily used mons in the game such as tusk, ting lu, chomp, grimsnarl, kinggambit, breloom the list goes on. Booster energy sets may lack raw power, but with how easy it is to keep hazards up this gen, its cleaning potential cannot be understated. Not to mention its inherent synergy with hazard stack teams due to its rare access to knock off, removing the boots or leftovers off of a potential defensive check allowing you to wear it down. 4x resistant to sucker punch, the most common priority move in the tier, is just another positive to this fantastic mon. Its able to run things like tera electric to beat corv, ghost to for gholdengo, or just fairy to fire off nuke moon blasts. Additionally, it has access to psyshock, to beat something like clodsire (although a banded set is still 2hko'ing sp.def with CC).
Access to two of the best boosting moves in SD and CM is just icing on the cake, this mon truly can do it all.
This mon has fantastic versatility despite how overwhelmingly common the booster energy set is, but its other sets are incredibly good as well. The fact that it seems predictable is just another boon as well, as those other sets can catch people off guard, and unlike most alternative sets, these are just as good as its most used set. To me, a mon that can run 3+ sets with different types of counterplay at a relatively equal level of effectiveness in a vacuum is a telltale sign of a potentially broken mon.
it can feasibly plug into any team and do what you need it to; whether that be beat a certain defensive threat, be speed control, wall breaker, cleaner; there's no reliable switch in to this beast- and again its ridiculously amazing typing just makes it that much easier to use. And finally it has access to utility moves such as trick, destiny bond, encore, screens, taunt, thunderwave.
The only reasonable con this mon has is that it has four move slot syndrome.
Some rises, mostly reflecting balance/bulky offense finally starting to find its footing in this meta:
A → A+: Garganacl is such a good tool for bulkier teams that it's unreal. Its choice of Tera type allows it to immediately patch up a lot of matchup holes in a typical balance/bulky offense team — rain matchup looking dubious? Try Tera Water! Struggling with Pults? Give Tera Fairy a shot! People have figured out that Iron Defense + Body Press makes for a solid anti-offense tool that can even win some endgames, but recently (as in, on ladder and in recent rounds of No Johns) we've been seeing Protect and Stealth Rock being ran more. Despite kind of inviting in the best removal in the tier, Garganacl is actually a really good rocker — Salt Cure chip wears down Tusk over time and forces Corvi to Roost a lot more than it'd like to, giving you a lot of opportunities. More importantly, its so damn bulky that it doesn't need to spam Recovers, meaning it actually has a lot of free turns to click Stealth Rock and Salt Cure — a privilege that a lot of other setters don't share right now. This thing can even run Boots if you want. Just so so so good, partners very cleanly with a lot of other balance/bulky offense staples, and is a very good defensive Tera user that allows its team to patch up bad matchups effortlessly. Very few other mons share this luxury. It's also just a mon which never really has a bad matchup — something like Annihilape can struggle vs more offensive builds, often being relegated to a role of "take a single hit and try to hit decently hard back", but Garganacl is an incredible wall vs offense, a great progress-maker vs balance, and can even pressure and wear down stall to some extent (though it does need to be paired with a proper wall/stallbreaker, fortunately a lot of stall's switchins to Garganacl let threats like Chi-Yu in for free, so with Salt Cure and some smart doubles you can really wear down stall over time). It's also just really easy to fit on teams — it has a free item slot so it can run Boots if you lack removal, it can set Rocks if you need it, its Tera type lets it pick a few extra mons to beat, it's really hard to wear down thanks to its item + Recover + its sheer bulk + its status immunity... It's very frequent for me to be building a team and realize "wait, Tera Water Garganacl answers all my team's problems" or something along those lines.
A+ → S-: Okay, this is perhaps a controversial one — a lot of other Pokemon have been nominated to S- (and I don't agree with any of them) — but given the resurgence of balance in the last couple weeks of No Johns, I am very confident that this Pokemon stands out among the rest of A+. Ting-Lu is the balance backbone right now. Simply put, balance as a teamstyle would not exist without this thing. It's the best Chi-Yu check that can be put on teams without making significant teambuilding compromises (not that it's 100% reliable, but it's far better than anything else besides Roaring Moon and Ttar), it naturally pairs well with other strong balance Pokemon like Gholdengo and Garganacl, it also has some flexibility with its Tera type, and of course it avoids being setup fodder thanks to Whirlwind. It does have some exploitable flaws — it relies on Leftovers (often paired with Protect) as recovery, meaning that it struggles to justify running Boots, resulting in it being very weak to Spikes and Toxic Spikes — but the reality is that this Pokemon is the only thing holding balance together. Look at some No Johns replays from the past couple weeks. You'll notice a lot of balance teams, but most importantly, nearly all of them run Ting-Lu. This thing is the Cyclizar of balance, except whereas Cyclizar just offers utility for a specific style of HO, Ting-Lu pairs utility with fantastic walling capabilities and fits on plenty of team structures. It can also be surprisingly disruptive to a lot of screens HO teams thanks to its Dark typing and very annoying Whirlwinds. It does struggle with Hatterene, though (a mon that should definitely also rise but I don't really have anything new to add so I won't include in this post), but I think that Ting-Lu's flaws should not distract you to how core this thing is to almost every single fat team having a remote amount of success right now. Way better than the rest of A+, and probably more solidly S- than Dragapult honestly (though they both deserve it IMO) given its cornerstone position in the metagame. If not for Ting-Lu, balance would be near-extinct; but looking at ladder or No Johns, balance is doing fairly well for itself despite some early-generation doomsaying.
If you don't believe me, please just flip through some No Johns replays and look at how frequently this thing is used, the diversity of Pokemon it's paired with, and how often it puts in work in matches. Yeah, it gets worn down, but it basically always does multiple very useful and important things before that happens. And since a lot of games right now are defined by posturing until you can find a Tera threat that either breaks through your opponent or walls them, getting worn down isn't as much of a killer as it was in previous generations — by the time this thing is getting low, hopefully you've found an opening that you can squeeze your wincon through. This isn't the regen core pivot hell of previous Fairygens where anything that got worn down was super easy to outlast by just making safe pivots (though as it happens, Ting-Lu does partner up quite well with Regenerator Amoonguss).
B → B+/A-: People have been exploring Azumarill more thanks to its good defensive typing and the tier's Water resists not being particularly fast or bulky (and some of those that are still kind of struggle with Azu, e.g. Dragapult and Roaring Moon). Choiced Dragons are quite good right now and this dissuades a lot of their shenanigans, and of course its defensive typing resists Chi-Yu. Those are all good traits, but where Azu really shines is in packing a real punch alongside these perks. While its priority getting outsped by every other priority in the tier is unfortunate, Azu fortunately resists most of them. This thing is just a really nice glue right now that a lot of people are slotting in to fill holes on all sorts of teams; it doesn't do any one particular job amazingly (its dreams of being a BD sweeper are mostly stopped cold by Dondozo existing, for example, although hilariously Tera Water Liquidation nearly OHKOs Amoonguss at +6), but it does enough important jobs well enough that it's finding a lot of usage.
And some drops:
A- → B+: This thing is sooo exploitable. Besides melting to physical attackers, we've seen that even against a lot of special mons, Clodsire only really walls them by a hair's breadth. Now, this isn't much of a problem at first blush — it benefits both from Boots and Lefties, and can't be worn down by poison, so being "worn down over time" isn't much of an issue for Clodsire — but it means Clodsire really, really struggles to click any moves that actually make progress. Clodsire wants to use Spikes, it really does, but it's forced to Recover super frequently, and when it's not recovering, it's often wanting to click a Toxic or whatever as insurance against threats like Dragonite or Great Tusk (a lot of Pokemon that seek to exploit Clodsire are the types where giving them a single turn results in a massive loss of progress, whether due to spin/DD/recovery moves/strong STABs/whatever). It just really struggles to do its job of Spiking (or Rocking) consistently, and has no real way to overcome its passivity. Even something as simple as Tera Flying/Air Balloon Nasty Plot Gholdengo hard walls standard EQ/Toxic sets, forcing it to run a niche coverage option like Poison Jab or a Rock move in order to do anything. This thing is still a fine mon, but teams are relying on it less and less in favour of better walls and better hazard setters, and Valiants are running Psychic coverage more and more frequently. Not to mention how hard this thing is to fit on balance teams typing-wise; it stacks so many weaknesses with Ting-Lu, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Garganacl that a lot of the teams that want a defensive Poison/Valiant check are going to look towards Amoonguss or Iron Moth long before they consider this exploitable blob of do-nothing. A hazard setter that needs to fight tooth-and-nail for a single Spikes turn, and then invites in the best Spinner in the tier who can erase a dozen turns' worth of hard-fought progress just by clicking Spin, feels really really hard to justify. It's at the point where I kind of want to drop hazards entirely and run 2 attacks + Toxic, but then it becomes so painfully passive and competes for a slot with many better defensive Pokemon. Just super hard to find a non-stall team that actually wants this, and "stall staple + rarely used on off-beat balance builds" isn't good enough to justify an A- slot to me when Blissey sits all the way down in B.
A+ → A: Look, Kingambit is definitely good, and you're hard-pressed to find a Pokemon that preforms better in endgame situations between Supreme Overlord and Sucker Punch shenanigans. But it's also a Pokemon that we've seen more teams figuring out adaptations to — Tera types that resist Dark, Fighting coverage on Chien-Pao/Gholdengo/Espathra, the rise of Ting-Lu and Tera Water Garganacl, Substitute Espathra, you get the gist. Not to mention that DD Pult is losing usage relative to sets that give Kingambit a harder time, namely Choiced sets and especially Wisp. Combine all that with this thing needing to predict in order to actually win many of the endgames it's supposed to be so good at. Overall, while Kingambit's combination of defensive typing, bulk, and endgame wincon abilities are useful, it does not compare favourably to a lot of other high-ranked Pokemon that can do similar things but don't have the metagame positioned to handle them — Roaring Moon, for example, also acts as a wincon with a defensive typing that's very useful for handling difficult-to-beat threats (Chi-Yu), but people have found a much harder time adapting to Roaring Moon. Beyond Wisp/Plume Chi-Yu, which doesn't even get past Roaring Moon, counterplay to Moon hasn't really taken off in ladder (Tera Fighting/Fairy Chi-Yu is a thing but it's far from common). Meanwhile, it seems like almost every Dark-weak threat right now frequently runs a Tera that resists Sucker, or a move that gets around Sucker 50/50s like Trick or Substitute. This thing is splashable and scary and gets a lot of opportunities, but people realized that it's splashable and scary and therefore began to prep for it, and unlike other top threats, it's actually very easy to prep for if you know what you're doing (just smack on a Dark-resistant Tera type or whatever). Strong Pokemon for sure but hard to justify being up in A+ when the anti-Kingambit measures people are taking are so effective.
Also please don't move down; yeah it can't Defog easily, but who cares? It's still a key part of a lot of defensive structures, and there are a lot of strong mons to U-turn into right now that exploit the hell out of Gholdengo. Corviknight + Boots Chi-Yu matches up super well into Gholdengo hazard stack, for example; a lot of those teams lack reliable Chi-Yu switchins, and the ones that do exist mostly get worn down by Overheats and then immediately walled right back by Corviknight.
A → A+: Garganacl is such a good tool for bulkier teams that it's unreal. Its choice of Tera type allows it to immediately patch up a lot of matchup holes in a typical balance/bulky offense team — rain matchup looking dubious? Try Tera Water! Struggling with Pults? Give Tera Fairy a shot! People have figured out that Iron Defense + Body Press makes for a solid anti-offense tool that can even win some endgames, but recently (as in, on ladder and in recent rounds of No Johns) we've been seeing Protect and Stealth Rock being ran more. Despite kind of inviting in the best removal in the tier, Garganacl is actually a really good rocker — Salt Cure chip wears down Tusk over time and forces Corvi to Roost a lot more than it'd like to, giving you a lot of opportunities. More importantly, its so damn bulky that it doesn't need to spam Recovers, meaning it actually has a lot of free turns to click Stealth Rock and Salt Cure — a privilege that a lot of other setters don't share right now. This thing can even run Boots if you want. Just so so so good, partners very cleanly with a lot of other balance/bulky offense staples, and is a very good defensive Tera user that allows its team to patch up bad matchups effortlessly. Very few other mons share this luxury. It's also just a mon which never really has a bad matchup — something like Annihilape can struggle vs more offensive builds, often being relegated to a role of "take a single hit and try to hit decently hard back", but Garganacl is an incredible wall vs offense, a great progress-maker vs balance, and can even pressure and wear down stall to some extent (though it does need to be paired with a proper wall/stallbreaker, fortunately a lot of stall's switchins to Garganacl let threats like Chi-Yu in for free, so with Salt Cure and some smart doubles you can really wear down stall over time). It's also just really easy to fit on teams — it has a free item slot so it can run Boots if you lack removal, it can set Rocks if you need it, its Tera type lets it pick a few extra mons to beat, it's really hard to wear down thanks to its item + Recover + its sheer bulk + its status immunity... It's very frequent for me to be building a team and realize "wait, Tera Water Garganacl answers all my team's problems" or something along those lines. A+ → S-: Okay, this is perhaps a controversial one — a lot of other Pokemon have been nominated to S- (and I don't agree with any of them) — but given the resurgence of balance in the last couple weeks of No Johns, I am very confident that this Pokemon stands out among the rest of A+. Ting-Lu is the balance backbone right now. Simply put, balance as a teamstyle would not exist without this thing. It's the best Chi-Yu check that can be put on teams without making significant teambuilding compromises (not that it's 100% reliable, but it's far better than anything else besides Roaring Moon and Ttar), it naturally pairs well with other strong balance Pokemon like Gholdengo and Garganacl, it also has some flexibility with its Tera type, and of course it avoids being setup fodder thanks to Whirlwind. It does have some exploitable flaws — it relies on Leftovers (often paired with Protect) as recovery, meaning that it struggles to justify running Boots, resulting in it being very weak to Spikes and Toxic Spikes — but the reality is that this Pokemon is the only thing holding balance together. Look at some No Johns replays from the past couple weeks. You'll notice a lot of balance teams, but most importantly, nearly all of them run Ting-Lu. This thing is the Cyclizar of balance, except whereas Cyclizar just offers utility for a specific style of HO, Ting-Lu pairs utility with fantastic walling capabilities and fits on plenty of team structures. It can also be surprisingly disruptive to a lot of screens HO teams thanks to its Dark typing and very annoying Whirlwinds. It does struggle with Hatterene, though (a mon that should definitely also rise but I don't really have anything new to add so I won't include in this post), but I think that Ting-Lu's flaws should not distract you to how core this thing is to almost every single fat team having a remote amount of success right now. Way better than the rest of A+, and probably more solidly S- than Dragapult honestly (though they both deserve it IMO) given its cornerstone position in the metagame. If not for Ting-Lu, balance would be near-extinct; but looking at ladder or No Johns, balance is doing fairly well for itself despite some early-generation doomsaying.If you don't believe me, please just flip through some No Johns replays and look at how frequently this thing is used, the diversity of Pokemon it's paired with, and how often it puts in work in matches. Yeah, it gets worn down, but it basically always does multiple very useful and important things before that happens. And since a lot of games right now are defined by posturing until you can find a Tera threat that either breaks through your opponent or walls them, getting worn down isn't as much of a killer as it was in previous generations — by the time this thing is getting low, hopefully you've found an opening that you can squeeze your wincon through. This isn't the regen core pivot hell of previous Fairygens where anything that got worn down was super easy to outlast by just making safe pivots (though as it happens, Ting-Lu does partner up quite well with Regenerator Amoonguss).
B → B+/A-: People have been exploring Azumarill more thanks to its good defensive typing and the tier's Water resists not being particularly fast or bulky (and some of those that are still kind of struggle with Azu, e.g. Dragapult and Roaring Moon). Choiced Dragons are quite good right now and this dissuades a lot of their shenanigans, and of course its defensive typing resists Chi-Yu. Those are all good traits, but where Azu really shines is in packing a real punch alongside these perks. While its priority getting outsped by every other priority in the tier is unfortunate, Azu fortunately resists most of them. This thing is just a really nice glue right now that a lot of people are slotting in to fill holes on all sorts of teams; it doesn't do any one particular job amazingly (its dreams of being a BD sweeper are mostly stopped cold by Dondozo existing, for example, although hilariously Tera Water Liquidation nearly OHKOs Amoonguss at +6), but it does enough important jobs well enough that it's finding a lot of usage.And some drops:
A- → B+: This thing is sooo exploitable. Besides melting to physical attackers, we've seen that even against a lot of special mons, Clodsire only really walls them by a hair's breadth. Now, this isn't much of a problem at first blush — it benefits both from Boots and Lefties, and can't be worn down by poison, so being "worn down over time" isn't much of an issue for Clodsire — but it means Clodsire really, really struggles to click any moves that actually make progress. Clodsire wants to use Spikes, it really does, but it's forced to Recover super frequently, and when it's not recovering, it's often wanting to click a Toxic or whatever as insurance against threats like Dragonite or Great Tusk (a lot of Pokemon that seek to exploit Clodsire are the types where giving them a single turn results in a massive loss of progress, whether due to spin/DD/recovery moves/strong STABs/whatever). It just really struggles to do its job of Spiking (or Rocking) consistently, and has no real way to overcome its passivity. Even something as simple as Tera Flying/Air Balloon Nasty Plot Gholdengo hard walls standard EQ/Toxic sets, forcing it to run a niche coverage option like Poison Jab or a Rock move in order to do anything. This thing is still a fine mon, but teams are relying on it less and less in favour of better walls and better hazard setters, and Valiants are running Psychic coverage more and more frequently. Not to mention how hard this thing is to fit on balance teams typing-wise; it stacks so many weaknesses with Ting-Lu, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Garganacl that a lot of the teams that want a defensive Poison/Valiant check are going to look towards Amoonguss or Iron Moth long before they consider this exploitable blob of do-nothing. A hazard setter that needs to fight tooth-and-nail for a single Spikes turn, and then invites in the best Spinner in the tier who can erase a dozen turns' worth of hard-fought progress just by clicking Spin, feels really really hard to justify. It's at the point where I kind of want to drop hazards entirely and run 2 attacks + Toxic, but then it becomes so painfully passive and competes for a slot with many better defensive Pokemon. Just super hard to find a non-stall team that actually wants this, and "stall staple + rarely used on off-beat balance builds" isn't good enough to justify an A- slot to me when Blissey sits all the way down in B. A+ → A: Look, Kingambit is definitely good, and you're hard-pressed to find a Pokemon that preforms better in endgame situations between Supreme Overlord and Sucker Punch shenanigans. But it's also a Pokemon that we've seen more teams figuring out adaptations to — Tera types that resist Dark, Fighting coverage on Chien-Pao/Gholdengo/Espathra, the rise of Ting-Lu and Tera Water Garganacl, Substitute Espathra, you get the gist. Not to mention that DD Pult is losing usage relative to sets that give Kingambit a harder time, namely Choiced sets and especially Wisp. Combine all that with this thing needing to predict in order to actually win many of the endgames it's supposed to be so good at. Overall, while Kingambit's combination of defensive typing, bulk, and endgame wincon abilities are useful, it does not compare favourably to a lot of other high-ranked Pokemon that can do similar things but don't have the metagame positioned to handle them — Roaring Moon, for example, also acts as a wincon with a defensive typing that's very useful for handling difficult-to-beat threats (Chi-Yu), but people have found a much harder time adapting to Roaring Moon. Beyond Wisp/Plume Chi-Yu, which doesn't even get past Roaring Moon, counterplay to Moon hasn't really taken off in ladder (Tera Fighting/Fairy Chi-Yu is a thing but it's far from common). Meanwhile, it seems like almost every Dark-weak threat right now frequently runs a Tera that resists Sucker, or a move that gets around Sucker 50/50s like Trick or Substitute. This thing is splashable and scary and gets a lot of opportunities, but people realized that it's splashable and scary and therefore began to prep for it, and unlike other top threats, it's actually very easy to prep for if you know what you're doing (just smack on a Dark-resistant Tera type or whatever). Strong Pokemon for sure but hard to justify being up in A+ when the anti-Kingambit measures people are taking are so effective. Also please don't move
down; yeah it can't Defog easily, but who cares? It's still a key part of a lot of defensive structures, and there are a lot of strong mons to U-turn into right now that exploit the hell out of Gholdengo. Corviknight + Boots Chi-Yu matches up super well into Gholdengo hazard stack, for example; a lot of those teams lack reliable Chi-Yu switchins, and the ones that do exist mostly get worn down by Overheats and then immediately walled right back by Corviknight.
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