Project Metagame Workshop

[Pipotchi]

First: no need to ban Brute Bonnet if you implement Sleep Moves Clause ;) which we pretty much always recommend

Second: I feel like there's a really cool concept here. I also think the concept could be simplified, in several ways actually, and these ways might open up the metagame.

1. The typing mechanic. What does it add? As far as I can see it limits certain types immensely (Normal, Rock for example) while others get huge boosts (Fairy, Ground). This is rather unfair, and will tilt the metagame towards using the types that get better boosts. So why not just let any typed Pokemon use any booster? Is there a particular reason you chose this?
2. Why Paradox mons in particular? Besides being a convenient grouping of Pokemon, is there a reason to limit the Pokemon in this way? What would the meta be like if any Pokemon could donate (besides needing more restrictions of course lol Blissey).

This third one isn't so much a simplification as... I don't like the movepool donation. That's straight out of Inheritance, whereas this is sort of the reverse of Inheritance, albeit the original concept hides that pretty well with the typing mechanic and limiting it to Paradox mons.

I really like this and I would urge you to submit it. I did see people giving you feedback on the funtionality of the banlist, and we would definitely have to sort that out in submissions, but that's not a big issue.

Thanks for the feedback! Response to 1 and 2:
Limiting it to paradox mons of the same typing does what I like in OMs, which is that it allows underused mons to shine in strange ways. I think this meta would go in a crazy direction if all mons were able to be named any other mon- which is totally fine and some metas already work this way- but with these limitations you'll see more underused mons being the best options available. Its fun seeing things like Toxapex and Pelipper being the top tier Iron Bundle names, instead of any slow, already viable special attacker that wants the extra speed like Gholdengo.
The other reason is balance- I know this meta is a lot more balanced than the any-name meta which sounds kinda sloppy! If this metagame doesn't have 5000 concurrent players that are willing to do suspect tests every day, then that's probably for the best that it has a stable beginning and is instantly playable. Inheritance for instance has 10-15 mons banned and I don't doubt this would lead to the same. The Paradox mons have lined up nicely to only allow a couple of names to boost speed (and only Bundle boosts it to a super-high level), which feels like a positive for teambuilding and preparation. The fact that mons like Maushold, Cyclizar and Blissey dont have a normal type to name from honestly doesn't feel so bad, and as long as there's a lot of variation within the stuff that does have names to pick I think its alright- if you think that there'd be a giant gap in the metagame then thats different and Id like to hear that concern.

Also I think if you simply inherit the 2 highest stats without any moves, and from any pokemon, you're basically playing a variant of Godly Gift, which is fun enough to consider but I think the way its originally written offers something different. The addition of some key moves to pair with new stats makes a lot more mons valid choices. For instance, Sylveon is very happy to recieve Boomburst from Scream Tail. Through the sets that I skimmed so far, there's a fair few mons that really benefit here.

tldr: Sometimes limiters are fun, in my opinion. Because I think the smaller metagame will lead to more counterplay in the teambuilder, space for strategies outside of HO/Hyper-stall, lesser mons getting more spotlight, and should feel separated from other metagames that already exist.
Ill try and submit it soon, since Im busy with work and would like to find someone to host with incase I cant give it all my time!

 

[Xufactor]

Reisuke

I agree with a lot of what you said.

Even if this would be playable, I think many players, myself included, would be a little confused as to how to play optimally and would resort to one of 2 strategies: always give 1 option 100% chance or give all logical options an equal chance. Perhaps some players would learn about those theories you've posted and they would be more succesful.

However, I think it should be obvious that the players can't give 100% chance to one play (your opponent just picks a play that counters it), and you don't give equal probability to every viable play due to varying risk/reward. It's the same reason that players cover what's in front of them more often than covering a switch, because the opponent's Pokemon doing something back is usually more threatening than having them switch to a counter.

 

[KaenSoul]

Someone was asking about this in the om room (Sediaw was their name, apparently) and I think it could work, it may actually be a balanced Tera related format, so let's explore the concept:

Cheap Jewels
Premise: All Pokémon get their types replaced by their selected Tera Type.
The type change isn't terastallizing, they do not get the power boost, and they do not keep their old STABs.

Winners:

What would you expect from Tera abusers, strong moves from types that aren't your own can now have STAB, or if you are a wall with an awful type you can fix that, and unlike other tiers you don't have to compete for that Tera slot to get that.
Losers:

No Type combos may be a problem for some Pokémon that enjoyed their unique typing, and having to choose between one of your STABs when you don't have coverage to explore can be sad.


If people like the idea, we could see if anyone wants to borrow it as I can't submit it myself without giving up some power

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Kinda just seems like Camomons but everyone is single type.

 

[Turtlek]

Kinda just seems like Camomons but everyone is single type.

Yes, but here everyone gets moves. You couldn’t pass Ferrothorn with Roserade in camo if you weren’t running Specs Shadow Ball... gotta try this with Gleam

 

[KaenSoul]

Kinda just seems like Camomons but everyone is single type.

Yeah, but that should be enough to make the meta develop in a completely different way, and you aren't forced to run stab moves, so you aren't forced to run a Fairy move on Blissey or a Steel move on Avalugg to get those types.
We don't have any tiers with single types only, so it should be unique enough.

 

[PQRDG]

Someone was asking about this in the om room (Sediaw was their name, apparently) and I think it could work, it may actually be a balanced Tera related format, so let's explore the concept:

Cheap Jewels
Premise: All Pokémon get their types replaced by their selected Tera Type.
The type change isn't terastallizing, they do not get the power boost, and they do not keep their old STABs.

Winners:

What would you expect from Tera abusers, strong moves from types that aren't your own can now have STAB, or if you are a wall with an awful type you can fix that, and unlike other tiers you don't have to compete for that Tera slot to get that.
Losers:

No Type combos may be a problem for some Pokémon that enjoyed their unique typing, and having to choose between one of your STABs when you don't have coverage to explore can be sad.


If people like the idea, we could see if anyone wants to borrow it as I can't submit it myself without giving up some power

Would this require a restriction on how many Pokemon can have the same Tera type? There are certain types that enjoy being good defensively (Fairy, Steel, Water) that I imagine would get a lot of use. Types like Bug, Ice, and probably Rock are obviously going to get very little usage because of how poor they are defensively.

At a glance at a type chart, I suspect it would look something like this:

Types that will be good to use: Steel, Fairy, Water, Ghost, Poison?
Types that will be decent to use: Normal, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fire, Fighting, Flying, Ground
Types that will be bad to use: Grass, Ice, Bug, Rock, Psychic?

I admit I could be entirely wrong, and certain types could prove to be better thanks to the lack of certain other types being present.

Something that could be cool (though I don't know if it would be dumb or not) is to have reverse Terastylization. For this meta specifically, maybe a Pokemon can use the Terastylization to return to its default typing. Limited to once per game as per regular Tera, and let's some of those Pokemon with better base dual-typings go back to that. Plus, presuming that the Pokemon's tera-type is revealed (whether on switch in or during team preview), you would know what the opponent could de-Tera into, because it would be back to their usual types.

 

[PQRDG]

I like the above idea of a Monotype meta but with Tera. I have a thought with a similar concept but changed for something a bit different:

Share-a-Type (okay yeah this name sucks I just wanted to make a pun)

Premise: You bring a team of six Pokémon, the order in the team doesn't matter. Each Pokémon has a Tera-type selected. The first Pokémon you send out Terastylizes the moment Turn 1 starts. From that moment on, every Pokémon on your team now has this type as STAB. They only get this benefit offensively, not defensively.

Strategy: Each Pokémon on your team would have a different Tera-type, and you could choose which Tera type would be shared with your team by seeing the opponent's team during Team Preview. Setting up multiple members of your team with enough coverage for different shared types allows for interesting offenses, and having the Tera Pokémon reveal themselves right from the start means you already know what your opponent has defensively.

Bans/Restrictions: OU Banlist, Same Tera restrictions as above (Cannot Tera into a type you already have, maybe cannot Tera into a type of someone on your team?)

Now that I have had time to think about this idea, I have possibly a more fleshed-out idea of the concept, and a better name.

Tera Donation
​

Premise: The first Pokemon you send out to the field Terastylizes immediately. It becomes its new Tera type. Every other Pokemon in the party gets that type added onto theirs. For any Pokemon that already has this type, they get a STAB boost equivalent to existing Terastylizing concepts.

New Clauses: Tera Preview Clause (Both players can see their opponent's Tera-types during team preview), Turn-Zero Tera Clause (The lead Pokemon from either side Terastylize the moment they are sent out, before any other actions are taken)

Restrictions: No more than two Pokemon can have the same Tera type, [second restriction to be one of the choices mentioned at the bottom of this post]

Bans: Koraidon, Miraidon, Moody, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Baton Pass, Sleep Moves

Watchlist: Drought, Electric Surge, Flutter Mane, Palafin

Question for the audience: there are three Pokemon here that could prove to be problematic. I have some potential solutions that balance all three of them, but I do not know which of these options is more ideal.

But why are they broken?

Drought + Tera Fire seems really scary. Chlorophyl users would love to have STAB on Weather Ball, but Protosynthesis mons getting STAB on their sun-boosted moves is a scary combination.

Electric Surge + Tera Electric is less scary, but risks a similar outcome. Electric types with Quark Drive in Electric Terrain might not be as broken, but still a viable threat.

Tera-Water Palafin is very strong. I don't think that Palafin is the most dangerous threat in this potential meta, but with a boost to its already strong water moves it gets crazy.

So, what are the options?

1) Mono-typed Pokemon are not able to set their own type as their Tera type. The section above stating that a Pokemon's STAB boost is increased by being donated its own type is removed.

2) No Pokemon on a team is able to have their Tera type be the same as a Mono-typed Pokemon's base type. The STAB bonus continues to apply to any dual-typed Pokemon receiving one of their existing types.

3) Ban Drought and Palafin from the start, keep an eye on Pincurchin to see if Electric Spam is too strong.

Once I have a conclusive answer to this, I think I will have a solid proof of concept ready to deal with any other potentially broken thing. Thank you to those of you who replied to the original post to give me suggestions, I really think there might be something good here. I just want to make sure I have everything ready before I even think about submitting.

 

[Gliwick]

Someone was asking about this in the om room (Sediaw was their name, apparently) and I think it could work, it may actually be a balanced Tera related format, so let's explore the concept:

Cheap Jewels
Premise: All Pokémon get their types replaced by their selected Tera Type.
The type change isn't terastallizing, they do not get the power boost, and they do not keep their old STABs.

Winners:

What would you expect from Tera abusers, strong moves from types that aren't your own can now have STAB, or if you are a wall with an awful type you can fix that, and unlike other tiers you don't have to compete for that Tera slot to get that.
Losers:

No Type combos may be a problem for some Pokémon that enjoyed their unique typing, and having to choose between one of your STABs when you don't have coverage to explore can be sad.


If people like the idea, we could see if anyone wants to borrow it as I can't submit it myself without giving up some power

I think it would be better to make it a third type instead, like old Hidden Type meta. Hidden Power is gone, and now we have tera types instead, so this seems like a natural successor

 

[KaenSoul]

Would this require a restriction on how many Pokemon can have the same Tera type? There are certain types that enjoy being good defensively (Fairy, Steel, Water) that I imagine would get a lot of use. Types like Bug, Ice, and probably Rock are obviously going to get very little usage because of how poor they are defensively.

At a glance at a type chart, I suspect it would look something like this:

Types that will be good to use: Steel, Fairy, Water, Ghost, Poison?
Types that will be decent to use: Normal, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fire, Fighting, Flying, Ground
Types that will be bad to use: Grass, Ice, Bug, Rock, Psychic?

I admit I could be entirely wrong, and certain types could prove to be better thanks to the lack of certain other types being present.

Something that could be cool (though I don't know if it would be dumb or not) is to have reverse Terastylization. For this meta specifically, maybe a Pokemon can use the Terastylization to return to its default typing. Limited to once per game as per regular Tera, and let's some of those Pokemon with better base dual-typings go back to that. Plus, presuming that the Pokemon's tera-type is revealed (whether on switch in or during team preview), you would know what the opponent could de-Tera into, because it would be back to their usual types.

I doubt repeating types would become a problem, it may be useful, but you end limiting the coverage and resistance available for your team.
And I was considering the reverse Tera thing, it sounds neat, but I fear it may be too broken in the context of a tier made out of single type mons.

I think it would be better to make it a third type instead, like old Hidden Type meta. Hidden Power is gone, and now we have tera types instead, so this seems like a natural successor

Eh, you could do that, but it would be a different concept, it may be a good idea for anyone that wants to submit Hidden Type or Bonus Type this gen.

Now that I have had time to think about this idea, I have possibly a more fleshed-out idea of the concept, and a better name.

Tera Donation
​

Premise: The first Pokemon you send out to the field Terastylizes immediately. It becomes its new Tera type. Every other Pokemon in the party gets that type added onto theirs. For any Pokemon that already has this type, they get a STAB boost equivalent to existing Terastylizing concepts.

New Clauses: Tera Preview Clause (Both players can see their opponent's Tera-types during team preview), Turn-Zero Tera Clause (The lead Pokemon from either side Terastylize the moment they are sent out, before any other actions are taken)

Restrictions: No more than two Pokemon can have the same Tera type, [second restriction to be one of the choices mentioned at the bottom of this post]

Bans: Koraidon, Miraidon, Moody, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Baton Pass, Sleep Moves

Watchlist: Drought, Electric Surge, Flutter Mane, Palafin

Question for the audience: there are three Pokemon here that could prove to be problematic. I have some potential solutions that balance all three of them, but I do not know which of these options is more ideal.

But why are they broken?

Drought + Tera Fire seems really scary. Chlorophyl users would love to have STAB on Weather Ball, but Protosynthesis mons getting STAB on their sun-boosted moves is a scary combination.

Electric Surge + Tera Electric is less scary, but risks a similar outcome. Electric types with Quark Drive in Electric Terrain might not be as broken, but still a viable threat.

Tera-Water Palafin is very strong. I don't think that Palafin is the most dangerous threat in this potential meta, but with a boost to its already strong water moves it gets crazy.

So, what are the options?

1) Mono-typed Pokemon are not able to set their own type as their Tera type. The section above stating that a Pokemon's STAB boost is increased by being donated its own type is removed.

2) No Pokemon on a team is able to have their Tera type be the same as a Mono-typed Pokemon's base type. The STAB bonus continues to apply to any dual-typed Pokemon receiving one of their existing types.

3) Ban Drought and Palafin from the start, keep an eye on Pincurchin to see if Electric Spam is too strong.

Once I have a conclusive answer to this, I think I will have a solid proof of concept ready to deal with any other potentially broken thing. Thank you to those of you who replied to the original post to give me suggestions, I really think there might be something good here. I just want to make sure I have everything ready before I even think about submitting.

This can work, but I would remove this part: "For any Pokémon that already has this type, they get a STAB boost equivalent to existing Terastylizing concepts."
Mostly for balancing reason, it makes sense in concept but feels like you are risking breaking a lot of stuff that would be balanced otherwise, but I may be wrong, it should at least be a better option than having a clause for mono type mons just to not break Torkoal.
Honestly, I think Palafin could be a default ban for most non-Uber level tiers by now, is clearly too strong compared to other regular mons (Hero is pretty much a mega that can hold items).

 

[Low-Key]

I've played this meta a lot and I've wanted to share it with you guys in the OM Workshop thread. The Gen 8 version is even coded on ROM too, so here is...

Frantic Fusions (I'm pretty sure smellslikememe created this first, so credits to him!)
The premise of this OM is simple, but maybe a bit complex. By nicknaming a Pokemon, the Pokemon has access to the following:

- The base Pokemon and the Nickname Pokemon average out their stats, rounded down (?)
- They both gain each other's movepools
- Depending on whether your Pokemon is shiny or not, the base Pokemon gains access to the Nickname Pokemon's primary OR secondary typing, which replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing
- The base Pokemon gains the Nickname Pokemon's first ability as an innate, which means they have two abilities instead of one

For example: If I wanted to make a fusion of let's say and , I'll do the following:

- Average out their base stats - Lokix has 71/102/78/52/55/92 whilst Chien-Pao has 80/120/80/90/65/135. Using this calculator I am able to calculate the base stats of the fusion - 75/111/79/71/60/113. In ROM, you are able to use the command /dt (pokemon), fuse, (pokemon) to calculate these stats, but this command is limited to only Pokemon from Gen 8 for now.
- Go into the teambuilder and build: Remember that the base Pokemon you choose gains the Nickname Pokemon's ability and primary/secondary typing depending on whether you make it rain shiny or not. This replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing.
- Also remember that both Pokemon share their movepools.
- Voila, you have a fusionmon ready to use!

Now that you've created the fusion, let's take some info into account:
This fusion is Bug/Ice type, has Tinted Lens and Sword of Ruin as abilities, has 75/111/79/71/60/113 for stats and share their movepools. Swords Dance and U-Turn are learned by Lokix and Icicle Crash and Sacred Sword are learned by Chien-Pao, the nickname we gave Lokix.

Here are some restrictions when it comes to fusions:
- You are not allowed to use Ubers Pokemon as base or Nickname. These include:
- You cannot Terastalize a fusion.
- For Pokemon that change stats in battle, eg. Wishiwashi, we calculate stats from both base form and the form where stat changes are present.

I'm still a bit unsure if this breaks the OM Workshop rules or not, but for now I hope you like this idea. Remember, the Gen 8 version of this is already coded on ROM!

 

[PQRDG]

I've played this meta a lot and I've wanted to share it with you guys in the OM Workshop thread. The Gen 8 version is even coded on ROM too, so here is...

Frantic Fusions (I'm pretty sure smellslikememe created this first, so credits to him!)
The premise of this OM is simple, but maybe a bit complex. By nicknaming a Pokemon, the Pokemon has access to the following:

- The base Pokemon and the Nickname Pokemon average out their stats, rounded down (?)
- They both gain each other's movepools
- Depending on whether your Pokemon is shiny or not, the base Pokemon gains access to the Nickname Pokemon's primary OR secondary typing, which replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing
- The base Pokemon gains the Nickname Pokemon's first ability as an innate, which means they have two abilities instead of one

For example: If I wanted to make a fusion of let's say and , I'll do the following:

- Average out their base stats - Lokix has 71/102/78/52/55/92 whilst Chien-Pao has 80/120/80/90/65/135. Using this calculator I am able to calculate the base stats of the fusion - 75/111/79/71/60/113. In ROM, you are able to use the command /dt (pokemon), fuse, (pokemon) to calculate these stats, but this command is limited to only Pokemon from Gen 8 for now.
- Go into the teambuilder and build: Remember that the base Pokemon you choose gains the Nickname Pokemon's ability and primary/secondary typing depending on whether you make it rain shiny or not. This replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing.
- Also remember that both Pokemon share their movepools.
- Voila, you have a fusionmon ready to use!
View attachment 481280
Now that you've created the fusion, let's take some info into account:
This fusion is Bug/Ice type, has Tinted Lens and Sword of Ruin as abilities, has 75/111/79/71/60/113 for stats and share their movepools. Swords Dance and U-Turn are learned by Lokix and Icicle Crash and Sacred Sword are learned by Chien-Pao, the nickname we gave Lokix.

Here are some restrictions when it comes to fusions:
- You are not allowed to use Ubers Pokemon as base or Nickname. These include:
- You cannot Terastalize a fusion.
- For Pokemon that change stats in battle, eg. Wishiwashi, we calculate stats from both base form and the form where stat changes are present.

I'm still a bit unsure if this breaks the OM Workshop rules or not, but for now I hope you like this idea. Remember, the Gen 8 version of this is already coded on ROM!

First of all, I am trying to use that fuse command you are describing and not having success with it. Admittedly I am accessing Showdown through the website currently so if others are having success with it then the issue is on my end only.

My main issue is that the way this plays out feels too similar to both Inheritance and Cross Evolution. Cross Evolution especially, since it already runs on the premise that you gain stats, typing, and movepool by naming yourself after another Pokemon, though without the evolution-based restrictions.

Ignoring that, my biggest issue is giving the Pokemon two abilities. The fact that you have restricted it to the primary ability could prove to be not totally broken, as some of the best abilities are Hidden Abilities, such as Regenerator. You would definitely have to ban Medicham as a Nickname, however, because its primary ability is Pure Power. However, for a lot of other Pokemon, their primary ability is their least useful one. My biggest gripe though is that giving Pokemon better stats, a new typing, an expanded movepool, and a second ability is a LOT to happen at once. (Also it only occurred to me as I was typing this that there is already a meta that allows Pokemon to have more than one active ability).

In conclusion, while "fuse two Pokemon and use the result" is a premise that could show promise, I do not believe that the way that you describe it now could stand out if implemented as described. This compares pretty closely to Cross Evolution, which some people already have difficulty wrapping their heads around, and is even more complex when broken down. Someone could prove me wrong and show that this holds water, but for now at least this seems like way too much is happening in the fusion stage to make building a team accessible to new players.

(Also there would need to be WAY more restrictions in place, probably including the Bringers of Ruin, if you wanted to have balanced gameplay.)

 

[Low-Key]

First of all, I am trying to use that fuse command you are describing and not having success with it. Admittedly I am accessing Showdown through the website currently so if others are having success with it then the issue is on my end only.

My main issue is that the way this plays out feels too similar to both Inheritance and Cross Evolution. Cross Evolution especially, since it already runs on the premise that you gain stats, typing, and movepool by naming yourself after another Pokemon, though without the evolution-based restrictions.

Ignoring that, my biggest issue is giving the Pokemon two abilities. The fact that you have restricted it to the primary ability could prove to be not totally broken, as some of the best abilities are Hidden Abilities, such as Regenerator. You would definitely have to ban Medicham as a Nickname, however, because its primary ability is Pure Power. However, for a lot of other Pokemon, their primary ability is their least useful one. My biggest gripe though is that giving Pokemon better stats, a new typing, an expanded movepool, and a second ability is a LOT to happen at once. (Also it only occurred to me as I was typing this that there is already a meta that allows Pokemon to have more than one active ability).

In conclusion, while "fuse two Pokemon and use the result" is a premise that could show promise, I do not believe that the way that you describe it now could stand out if implemented as described. This compares pretty closely to Cross Evolution, which some people already have difficulty wrapping their heads around, and is even more complex when broken down. Someone could prove me wrong and show that this holds water, but for now at least this seems like way too much is happening in the fusion stage to make building a team accessible to new players.

(Also there would need to be WAY more restrictions in place, probably including the Bringers of Ruin, if you wanted to have balanced gameplay.)

Hey there! I'm actually fully aware about your issues - I do believe some people could have difficulty accessing the mod in its entirety, but I do plan on changing the rules so it's not as complicated. And yes, Meditite and Medicham are being banned. I'm still hoping the meta would become full of possibilities too. I'd like to point out something, though: This is what it was when it was first shared about! Take a look in the Gen 7 OM Workshop thread! Maybe ideas that were more hard to put together were favored, I don't know. In full, the rules of the OM will be more simpler than how it originally was, but I might have a bit of trouble deciding. Thank you for your comments!

 

[Blizihguh]

Someone was asking about this in the om room (Sediaw was their name, apparently) and I think it could work, it may actually be a balanced Tera related format, so let's explore the concept:

Cheap Jewels
Premise: All Pokémon get their types replaced by their selected Tera Type.
The type change isn't terastallizing, they do not get the power boost, and they do not keep their old STABs.

Winners:

What would you expect from Tera abusers, strong moves from types that aren't your own can now have STAB, or if you are a wall with an awful type you can fix that, and unlike other tiers you don't have to compete for that Tera slot to get that.
Losers:

No Type combos may be a problem for some Pokémon that enjoyed their unique typing, and having to choose between one of your STABs when you don't have coverage to explore can be sad.


If people like the idea, we could see if anyone wants to borrow it as I can't submit it myself without giving up some power

This is neat! I get the impression that this would push the meta in a more defensive direction -- losing dual STABs is pretty big for a lot of offensive mons, and the combination of total type flexibility, no 4x weaknesses, and less STAB coverage means that bulkier mons become a lot more flexible. Mons with immunity abilities also seem really good here. eg, Coalossal isn't quite as wimpy as a pure Steel type with Flash Fire and its great support movepool. In short, I definitely think the pure typings and more flexible movepools give this enough of its own identity compared to Camomons.

Repeat After Me

Okay I'm super late here, but I saw this and couldn't help myself from theorymonning a bunch lol


Poison Heal is super funny here: of course you wear a Toxic Orb to proc it, but then you have Fling to simultaneously inflict Toxic (which you're immune to, of course) and remove your opponent's item. It only works once, but it could be good in a format where Knock Off and Toxic are both big liabilities. And you can't deny the style points.


Immunity abilities, particularly ones that come with benefits, seem really nice. Clodsire gets a nice healing option in Water Absorb, letting you dish out damage while healing a quarter of your HP. You might still want Recover, but at the very least you don't have to worry about its low PP, and if you're really desperate for the moveslot, dropping it is still an option. Pawmot can do the same thing with Volt Absorb, potentially healing off chip damage while threatening the opponent with a STAB Double Shock. Meanwhile, Ceruledge is able to boost itself with a Flash Fire buff while also throwing out an Armor Cannon. Scary stuff!

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Metagame premise: A metagame where every Pokemon has a partner they can switch to without costing the turn.

So for example

on this team Jirachi and Manaphy would be paired. If Manaphy was out I could swap to Victini and use V-Create in the same turn. If anything else was out it would be the standard switch we all know.

The partner would be decided by the order of Pokemon and could either be set before team preview or at team preview depending on what works best.

Potential bans and threats:
Pokemon with classic absurdly good dual defensive cores will be able to sit on many pairs. Gholdengo is notably able to be part of many excellent defensive and offensive cores.

Depending on how mechanics shake out easy resets on Choice items could push a number of Pokémon over the edge, notably Lokix which had to hard switch before.

Questions for the community:
- Should this be bring 6 with 3 pairs or bring 12 with 6 pairs?
- Should partners be set from team preview? Should they be able to be edited at team preview but not after?
- What should happen with any type of set up, including Substitute? What about other stuff like Choice Lock, Toxic counter, etc.
- Does this metagame introduce too many 50/50s to be competitive?
- What should happen to the other partner when one is KO'd

There are some more technical questions but this probably isn't the place to ask them.

Gonna be honest I won't submit this. I'm not feeling running metas at the moment. So if you like this idea feel free to take it.

 

[KaenSoul]

I've played this meta a lot and I've wanted to share it with you guys in the OM Workshop thread. The Gen 8 version is even coded on ROM too, so here is...

Frantic Fusions (I'm pretty sure smellslikememe created this first, so credits to him!)
The premise of this OM is simple, but maybe a bit complex. By nicknaming a Pokemon, the Pokemon has access to the following:

- The base Pokemon and the Nickname Pokemon average out their stats, rounded down (?)
- They both gain each other's movepools
- Depending on whether your Pokemon is shiny or not, the base Pokemon gains access to the Nickname Pokemon's primary OR secondary typing, which replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing
- The base Pokemon gains the Nickname Pokemon's first ability as an innate, which means they have two abilities instead of one

For example: If I wanted to make a fusion of let's say and , I'll do the following:

- Average out their base stats - Lokix has 71/102/78/52/55/92 whilst Chien-Pao has 80/120/80/90/65/135. Using this calculator I am able to calculate the base stats of the fusion - 75/111/79/71/60/113. In ROM, you are able to use the command /dt (pokemon), fuse, (pokemon) to calculate these stats, but this command is limited to only Pokemon from Gen 8 for now.
- Go into the teambuilder and build: Remember that the base Pokemon you choose gains the Nickname Pokemon's ability and primary/secondary typing depending on whether you make it rain shiny or not. This replaces the base Pokemon's secondary typing.
- Also remember that both Pokemon share their movepools.
- Voila, you have a fusionmon ready to use!
View attachment 481280
Now that you've created the fusion, let's take some info into account:
This fusion is Bug/Ice type, has Tinted Lens and Sword of Ruin as abilities, has 75/111/79/71/60/113 for stats and share their movepools. Swords Dance and U-Turn are learned by Lokix and Icicle Crash and Sacred Sword are learned by Chien-Pao, the nickname we gave Lokix.

Here are some restrictions when it comes to fusions:
- You are not allowed to use Ubers Pokemon as base or Nickname. These include:
- You cannot Terastalize a fusion.
- For Pokemon that change stats in battle, eg. Wishiwashi, we calculate stats from both base form and the form where stat changes are present.

I'm still a bit unsure if this breaks the OM Workshop rules or not, but for now I hope you like this idea. Remember, the Gen 8 version of this is already coded on ROM!

This made me check the archives, as it was rejected before back in 2018, the team from back then said it was too similar to Inheritance, and that's about it, I think that could have been easily solved by removing the movepool part, too bad I wasn't part of the team back then, could have saved part of the concept, sorry smellslikememe.
But since then our guidelines have changed a bit, and that comes with a new problem:

Commonly Rejected Metagame Ideas:
Common Submissions

• My formula is not complex: OM concepts that use formulas to calculate Pokémon stats. We have a lot of these already.

You could try to submit it anyway, but I doubt it would get far if you can't prove this will have a niche over stuff like Cross Evolution, Re-Evolution, Mix & Mega, Flipped and Godly Gift (and may other previously approved formats that could come back like Tier Shift and Nature Swap), what makes it unique, why would people play it over the others, stuff like that.
It doesn't help that this may have the most complex formula out of any stat based OM.

 

[prunyy]

These guys came as a pair, so another two in one except this time drampa’s grandpa hopefully doesn’t rick roll me again

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?



Z-Buffs

Premise: If a status move is in a pokemon’s moveslot, it’s corresponding Z move buff will occur on switch-in.
Example: If Slither Wing has Bulk Up and Sunny Day in it’s moveslots, it will gain +1 Attack and +1 Speed on switch-in.

Potential Bans: Ubers, evasion boosting buffs.

Strategy:
You want to balance the attacking moves and status moves. Having lots of status moves could be tempting, but pokemon want coverage. You want to carefully balance your movesets.

Potent Threats:

As a lead screens user, it gains +1 in both defenses, letting it tank even more. It can even run Thunder Wave for more special defense.

Splash, out of all moves in all of Gen 7, gives +3 attack. Along with it’s Disguise, it can also run Swords Dance with Life Orb for maximum offensive power.

This can run a weird set of Metal Sound and Electric Terrain to boost it’s Special Attack and Speed respectively. It can also use these moves for it’s own use.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

What do we do to new status moves from Gen 8, Gen 9, and more to come?

How would moves that reset stat changes and restore health moves be treated?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

These guys came as a pair, so another two in one except this time drampa’s grandpa hopefully doesn’t rick roll me again

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?



Z-Buffs

Premise: If a status move is in a pokemon’s moveslot, it’s corresponding Z move buff will occur on switch-in.
Example: If Slither Wing has Bulk Up and Sunny Day in it’s moveslots, it will gain +1 Attack and +1 Speed on switch-in.

Potential Bans: Ubers, evasion boosting buffs.

Strategy:
You want to balance the attacking moves and status moves. Having lots of status moves could be tempting, but pokemon want coverage. You want to carefully balance your movesets.

Potent Threats:

As a lead screens user, it gains +1 in both defenses, letting it tank even more. It can even run Thunder Wave for more special defense.

Splash, out of all moves in all of Gen 7, gives +3 attack. Along with it’s Disguise, it can also run Swords Dance with Life Orb for maximum offensive power.

This can run a weird set of Metal Sound and Electric Terrain to boost it’s Special Attack and Speed respectively. It can also use these moves for it’s own use.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

What do we do to new status moves from Gen 8, Gen 9, and more to come?

How would moves that reset stat changes and restore health moves be treated?

Z-Buff would be weird since status moves introduced after Gen 7 don't have Z effects, but DynaBuff sounds like it'd be fun. I assume the effects activate in order of primary type -> secondary type, so something like Dedenne would set Electric Terrain and then immediately overwrite it with Misty Terrain. It sounds like it'd be useless, though it does have a niche in being able to extend an effect's duration without having to wait for it to end.



Coalossal shows this off very well. Its primary Rock typing means the sun will be up for the next 5/8 turns every time it switches in, and it greatly appreciates the sun to help it tank Water hits for Steam Engine.



Scovillain is another sun setter, this time also giving itself a speed boost with Chlorophyll and boosting its Grass STAB with Grassy Terrain.



The former poster child of Dynamax. It may not have spammable Flying STAB anymore, but a speed boost and rain-boosted Water STAB is still very powerful.

 

[prunyy]

Metagame premise: A metagame where every Pokemon has a partner they can switch to without costing the turn.

So for example
View attachment 482133
on this team Jirachi and Manaphy would be paired. If Manaphy was out I could swap to Victini and use V-Create in the same turn. If anything else was out it would be the standard switch we all know.

The partner would be decided by the order of Pokemon and could either be set before team preview or at team preview depending on what works best.

Potential bans and threats:
Pokemon with classic absurdly good dual defensive cores will be able to sit on many pairs. Gholdengo is notably able to be part of many excellent defensive and offensive cores.

Depending on how mechanics shake out easy resets on Choice items could push a number of Pokémon over the edge, notably Lokix which had to hard switch before.

Questions for the community:
- Should this be bring 6 with 3 pairs or bring 12 with 6 pairs?
- Should partners be set from team preview? Should they be able to be edited at team preview but not after?
- What should happen with any type of set up, including Substitute? What about other stuff like Choice Lock, Toxic counter, etc.
- Does this metagame introduce too many 50/50s to be competitive?
- What should happen to the other partner when one is KO'd

There are some more technical questions but this probably isn't the place to ask them.

Gonna be honest I won't submit this. I'm not feeling running metas at the moment. So if you like this idea feel free to take it.

I don’t know how to phrase it, but it feels like doubles but singles? It’s like doubles, but you only choose one attack on your pokemon into like an Ally Switch. But it’s also like singles because you have 3 pairs to hard switch into. Weird.

As a doubles and singles enjoyer, I would probably spend time into this OM.

As for your questions,
No, having 3 pairs is much nicer than 6. Building a gimmicky, pseudo-doubles/singles hybrid OM with 12 mons sounds like a nightmare.

Partners don’t need to be shown in team preview. Editing it right before could add an extra level of thought, which I do like a lot. Otherwise, you can just make slots 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 linked.

Choice Items should be treated as usual. Something cool would be if the linked pair also is influenced but that makes it all weird with exceptions and quite pet moddy.

I think it would not be completely 50/50. As I mentioned earlier, it’s like really weird doubles-singles. Ally Switch has some suspecting going on last gen iirc. It wasn’t banned however. Also you can hard switch, so I don’t think it will be uncompetitive in any way.

If the linked pokemon is KO’d nothing happens. The pokemon has to hard switch.

 

[Turtlek]

These guys came as a pair, so another two in one except this time drampa’s grandpa hopefully doesn’t rick roll me again

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?



Z-Buffs

Premise: If a status move is in a pokemon’s moveslot, it’s corresponding Z move buff will occur on switch-in.
Example: If Slither Wing has Bulk Up and Sunny Day in it’s moveslots, it will gain +1 Attack and +1 Speed on switch-in.

Potential Bans: Ubers, evasion boosting buffs.

Strategy:
You want to balance the attacking moves and status moves. Having lots of status moves could be tempting, but pokemon want coverage. You want to carefully balance your movesets.

Potent Threats:

As a lead screens user, it gains +1 in both defenses, letting it tank even more. It can even run Thunder Wave for more special defense.

Splash, out of all moves in all of Gen 7, gives +3 attack. Along with it’s Disguise, it can also run Swords Dance with Life Orb for maximum offensive power.

This can run a weird set of Metal Sound and Electric Terrain to boost it’s Special Attack and Speed respectively. It can also use these moves for it’s own use.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

What do we do to new status moves from Gen 8, Gen 9, and more to come?

How would moves that reset stat changes and restore health moves be treated?

Wouldn’t be the item/ability slot be more balanced? Would work like trademarked, multibility...

 

[KaenSoul]

These guys came as a pair, so another two in one except this time drampa’s grandpa hopefully doesn’t rick roll me again

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?



Z-Buffs

Premise: If a status move is in a pokemon’s moveslot, it’s corresponding Z move buff will occur on switch-in.
Example: If Slither Wing has Bulk Up and Sunny Day in it’s moveslots, it will gain +1 Attack and +1 Speed on switch-in.

Potential Bans: Ubers, evasion boosting buffs.

Strategy:
You want to balance the attacking moves and status moves. Having lots of status moves could be tempting, but pokemon want coverage. You want to carefully balance your movesets.

Potent Threats:

As a lead screens user, it gains +1 in both defenses, letting it tank even more. It can even run Thunder Wave for more special defense.

Splash, out of all moves in all of Gen 7, gives +3 attack. Along with it’s Disguise, it can also run Swords Dance with Life Orb for maximum offensive power.

This can run a weird set of Metal Sound and Electric Terrain to boost it’s Special Attack and Speed respectively. It can also use these moves for it’s own use.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

What do we do to new status moves from Gen 8, Gen 9, and more to come?

How would moves that reset stat changes and restore health moves be treated?

There is no way to choose the effects for the missing Z-moves without this becoming a pet mod, so I would pass on that one.
And as I was saying in the room last night, the Dyna one is just, unbalanced, even if you limit it to one time per switch it would be too much, as it would still favor HO the most, defensively you will want the buff multiple times to keep up with the power that multiple set up sweepers will get even one time each, after all there are more offensive effects than defensive ones.
Maybe try with what Turtlek suggest? You could assign this to the item slot to reduce the power level a whole lot (it would still be dangerously high, as the Fighting one for example is a choice band that doesn't lock you), to not have to create new items you could try something like this:

Max Plates: Depending on the type of the equipped Plate, upon entering the field an effect will occur depending on the Type boosted by the plate, and those effects correspond to gen 8 max moves.
I can't guarantee you this would be approved, but you may actually convince someone with some effort.

 

[Notagamer]

These guys came as a pair, so another two in one except this time drampa’s grandpa hopefully doesn’t rick roll me again

DynaBuff need a better name

Premise: Singles OU based metagame where the max move buff corresponding to the pokemon’s types will occur when a pokemon is switched in.
Example: Sending Lucario out would give it +1 Attack from Fighting type and +1 Defense from Steel type because they correspond to Max Knuckle and Max Steelspike and their buffs respectively.

*A More Balanced Premise: Same as previous one, but it is only going to happen for the first few switches depending on it’s Smogon Tiering or BST. An example would be like Uber tier is completely restricted, OU is first 2 switch-ins, UU is first 4 switches, etc.

Potent Threats:
Sets sun and lower’s Special Defense on top of Beads of Ruin. No words.

+1 Attack and -1 Defense to the opponent lets it set off very strong moves.

It highers it’s defense, while lowering opponent’s special attack, giving it a decent, little risk, lead option.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

*Should this be Ubers based with restrictions like I mentioned to keep it more balanced?

What do we do if a new type is made?



Z-Buffs

Premise: If a status move is in a pokemon’s moveslot, it’s corresponding Z move buff will occur on switch-in.
Example: If Slither Wing has Bulk Up and Sunny Day in it’s moveslots, it will gain +1 Attack and +1 Speed on switch-in.

Potential Bans: Ubers, evasion boosting buffs.

Strategy:
You want to balance the attacking moves and status moves. Having lots of status moves could be tempting, but pokemon want coverage. You want to carefully balance your movesets.

Potent Threats:

As a lead screens user, it gains +1 in both defenses, letting it tank even more. It can even run Thunder Wave for more special defense.

Splash, out of all moves in all of Gen 7, gives +3 attack. Along with it’s Disguise, it can also run Swords Dance with Life Orb for maximum offensive power.

This can run a weird set of Metal Sound and Electric Terrain to boost it’s Special Attack and Speed respectively. It can also use these moves for it’s own use.

Questions for the Community:

Are there any pokemon, abilities, moves, or items that come to mind that should be banned?

What do we do to new status moves from Gen 8, Gen 9, and more to come?

How would moves that reset stat changes and restore health moves be treated?

I honestly like this. Would tera effect what max effects are used?

 

[prunyy]

I honestly like this. Would tera effect what max effects are used?

You could use the original type, or maybe a held item like a plate, like KaenSoul mentioned. Tera type is also another option.

I also had another idea where you sacrifice the ability slot, so if you put “Max Steelspike” in the editor, it will basically be like Gen 8 Dauntless Shield; +1 Defense on switch-in.

 

[Hiusi guy]

Alphabet Soup (cause I think that's funny)
The premise: Simply it's alphabet cup but with abilities, meaning the first letter of a Pokemon's original name give them access to all abilities that start with the same letter (as well as their base abilities if nothing else is good)

For example: Charizard is able to get things like Cud Chew and Compound Eyes
And Gengar would be able to not only get abilities like Good as Gold but also Hadron Engine because of Haunter

Most of the obvious abilities would be banned like Moody, Huge/Pure Power, and traping abilities but otherwise I currently wouldn't know what could/should be banned. Though I do know that Zoroark and Zangoose get literally nothing from this cause of zen mode and zero to hero being their only options .

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

Alphabet Soup (cause I think that's funny)
The premise: Simply it's alphabet cup but with abilities, meaning the first letter of a Pokemon's original name give them access to all abilities that start with the same letter (as well as their base abilities if nothing else is good)

For example: Charizard is able to get things like Cud Chew and Compound Eyes
And Gengar would be able to not only get abilities like Good as Gold but also Hadron Engine because of Haunter

Most of the obvious abilities would be banned like Moody, Huge/Pure Power, and traping abilities but otherwise I currently wouldn't know what could/should be banned. Though I do know that Zoroark and Zangoose get literally nothing from this cause of zen mode and zero to hero being their only options .

I don't think it should carry over with evolution. Alphabet Cup lets you inherit from prevos because a Pokemon can learn a move and then keep it when evolving. But there's no precedent for that to happen with abilities.