Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Is great tusk fine now? I think people are so focused on how good he is at hazard control that they don't appreciate him as a breaker. He feels safe to switch in if you're running hazard control or some bulk up set, but absolutely nothing switches in on CB great tusk if you guess the wrong STAB. Not even a certain tiger has the luxury of these calcs without using Tera, great tusk has 2 120 BP STABS that compliment each other perfectly.
I swear I must be taking crazy pills when I say CB is his best set and that its absolutely unwallable if you guess wrong.

252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%)

252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 205-243 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 291-343 (67.3 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Physically defensive dondozo takes 40%, SPD also rolls over.
Great Tusk reminds me a slower, bulkier Terakion. Chien-Pao may have a similar damage out, but it is way faster, has priority and Swords Dsnce which takes it to a whole new level.
 
I wouldn't say choice band is it's best set: you sacrifice the utility of spin, knock, and rocks, and choice locking is a big hinderance. Sure, it can break through the walls of the tier, but it's easily checked offensively and in the end of the day you'll probably get more use out of utility tusk than banded tusk.
I think at the end of the day the greatest problem of running great tusk set A is that you don't get to run great tusk set B.
I agree Chien Pao has far more opportunities due to higher speed, tusk speed is also not ideal for SD. But if I'm running screens and get it in, Tusk has become my main choice to soften things up in post Chi-yu/Ape/Cyclizar meta.
I've also been messing around with Vgc and gargnacl is suffocating enough with two pokemon to attack it. Really gave me some perspective on how much of a monster it is in singles, which my boy great tusk also 2HKOs on switch with rocks on Tera Fairy/Water even if its running the rare max defense set.

252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I do think setup sweepers have been far less effective than plain old banded/scarfed breakers, the unaware trio always ends up showing its face.
 
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I think at the end of the day the greatest problem of running great tusk set A is that you don't get to run great tusk set B.
Which I think is pretty healthy. There's a lot of flexibility and role compression you can run, with the opportunity cost being you can't also run it as the other options. It's a strange situation where it does have 4MSS, but regardless of the moveset it still always feels effective. Biggest issue for me is wanting to run both STAB + Rapid Spin + Knock Off, but also wanting Stealth Rocks and never being able to fit it. Also more people should try mixed bulk AV Great Tusk, it checks so many threats and is a pain to get rid of if you don't expect the extra special bulk.

On a different note, I think over the past couple weeks I'm seeing what everyone is saying about Chien Pao, but I feel less strongly about it because I actually use mons like Tera Steel Iron Hands and Tauros-Fire. I get that people don't want to slot in specific "niche" mons to deal with it but its never felt like I lose at team preview when I see one. There is very little set variety for it compared to other top mons, and I find Iron Valiant much more difficult to plan for because Specs, Mixed, and Calm Mind all require different checks to comfortably deal with. With Chien Pao, it comes to is it Choiced or HDB SD, and which priority does it carry. I see its breaking power and understand its a bit too strong, but it feels mindless because its basically the same 3 moves + SD or Sacred Sword depending on your item, which feels frustrating when you lose to it. At least a similar mon like EKiller Dragonite could be running a completely different set like the bulky Fire Spin trapper or DTail Roost, but when you see or build Chien Pao, its the same Chien Pao almost every time. I think the suspect will be vastly in favor of ban, and I'll likely be in favor for banning, mostly because I think the meta is healthier without it. I don't think its as clearcut as people think though, and I definitely lose more games to Iron Valiant set variety than Chien Pao cookie-cutter-same-mon-every-game.

Then again I seem to have a slightly different read on the meta than most, hence my more niche mon recommendations like Vaporeon, Iron Hands, and Dragalge. Just my 2 cents I guess. (no seriously go make an Iron Hands team right now, its so good right now)
 
On a different note, I think over the past couple weeks I'm seeing what everyone is saying about Chien Pao, but I feel less strongly about it because I actually use mons like Tera Steel Iron Hands and Tauros-Fire. I get that people don't want to slot in specific "niche" mons to deal with it but its never felt like I lose at team preview when I see one. There is very little set variety for it compared to other top mons, and I find Iron Valiant much more difficult to plan for because Specs, Mixed, and Calm Mind all require different checks to comfortably deal with. With Chien Pao, it comes to is it Choiced or HDB SD, and which priority does it carry. I see its breaking power and understand its a bit too strong, but it feels mindless because its basically the same 3 moves + SD or Sacred Sword depending on your item, which feels frustrating when you lose to it. At least a similar mon like EKiller Dragonite could be running a completely different set like the bulky Fire Spin trapper or DTail Roost, but when you see or build Chien Pao, its the same Chien Pao almost every time. I think the suspect will be vastly in favor of ban, and I'll likely be in favor for banning, mostly because I think the meta is healthier without it. I don't think its as clearcut as people think though, and I definitely lose more games to Iron Valiant set variety than Chien Pao cookie-cutter-same-mon-every-game.
Chien Pao is pretty absurd on paper, but its a high cost to tera it just to edge out those 2hkos. And it can be completely nailed by correct tera usage unlike Chi-yu who would just KO anything. I think the current meta is just on the borderline of what's acceptable for Chien Pao, it can brute force thru everything with tera but it can also fall flat on its face due to the same mechanic.
Valiant is fine, its perfectly wallable unless its comitting hard to a bait set, its sort of like Pheromosa without U-turn pivoting and endless momentum. Fast and deadly but counterable.
 
Chien Pao is pretty absurd on paper, but its a high cost to tera it just to edge out those 2hkos. And it can be completely nailed by correct tera usage unlike Chi-yu who would just KO anything. I think the current meta is just on the borderline of what's acceptable for Chien Pao, it can brute force thru everything with tera but it can also fall flat on its face due to the same mechanic.
Valiant is fine, its perfectly wallable unless its comitting hard to a bait set, its sort of like Pheromosa without U-turn pivoting and endless momentum. Fast and deadly but counterable.
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not calling arms to ban Iron Valiant, by no means is it overwhelming. I think you're right in that Chien Pao can overpower most of the meta when positioned correctly, but more and more creative lures and Tera bait options are being played these days, as well as higher priority on mons that can outright win the 1v1. Honestly, it would be more difficult to handle if some of the Tera ban compromises like 1 Tera per team and such were implemented, because you almost certainly know what Tera Chien Pao will run. You don't know for certain if that Great Tusk staring at you is going to Tera and Body Press you.

Speaking of Iron Valiant, it is absolutely wild to me that more teams aren't playing around with Knock Off Iron Valiant. So many switch ins HATE getting Knock Offed, but Iron Valiant wants to run 10 different moves and its hard to fit in. I was fiddling around a bit with a mixed Expert Belt set and it honestly felt pretty solid:

Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Psyshock
- Close Combat

Expert Belt can help you feign a Choice set and catch the opponent off guard, and Knock Off into a lot of switch ins just cripple them for the rest of the game. Thunder Wave in place of Knock Off was attempted but Knock Off felt so much better.
 
Luxray
View attachment 485947
"Luxray is a proud and friendly Pokémon dedicated to helping its friends. Luxray has high inner strength, refusing to give up when committed to a goal. Luxray cares greatly for others and will jump straight into danger without a second thought to save someone" - Bulbapedia

"Being able to finally find a genuine niche for Luxray in OU after multiple generations makes me happier than I could properly articulate; Luxray is awesome" - Morkal

BASE STATSMIN-MAX STAT RANGE
HP:
80
270 - 364
Attack:
120
220 - 372
Defense:
79
146 - 282
Sp. Atk:
95
175 - 317
Sp. Def:
79
146 - 282
Speed:
70
130 - 262

Abilities:
Rivalry, Intimidate | HA: Guts

Notable Physical + Utility Moves:
Body Slam, Crunch, Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Trailblaze, Wild Charge

Luxray's infamy is known by most competitive Pokemon players thanks to its long and unfortunately... well, unfortunate, competitive history. Luxray has always been cursed with specific attributes that left it out to dry in almost every meta's landscape, to the point where it would always end up in the lowest tier or not being able to compete in a lower tier at all. However, despite this, what if I told you that Luxray actually has a solid OU niche in Generation 9? Luxray received some new tools that allow it to succeed in the current meta thanks to this new move access and (looking at older OU generations) a comparatively kinder environment. Luxray is a strong mono-electric type that finally had a much-deserved second wind (arguably first wind) through the addition of Terastallization and Trailblaze to bolster its offensive and defensive capabilities. So let's jump into yet another massive OU niche post and analyze why Luxray finally has room to breathe in OU - the truth may shock you! (Don't worry, I know how shockingly bad my pun was).

Disclaimer: Luxray is tough to properly slot into team builds; as such, I highly recommend looking into OU speed tiers here and memorizing relevant benchmarks along with specific core matchups before you use Luxray on one of your builds (I will explain the speed benchmarks and matchups in this post as well)! Figuring out common switch-ins is critical in this role as well. If you take the time to learn how to best prepare your team to work with Luxray, he can pull off unexpected wonders for your team.

Summarized Advantages of Luxray
This is a "too long, didn't read" bullet point list for people who don't want to read through the whole post and want a quick understanding of Luxray's OU benefits.
  • Luxray benefitted heavily from the addition of Tera, allowing it to act as a tanky Dragon, Dark, Fighting, and sometimes Ground-type lure that helps put its offensive capabilities to work and gives one of its most crucial coverage moves, Play Rough, some much-needed STAB.
  • Additionally, common switch-ins such as Iron Hands, Garchomp, Great Tusk, and Ting-Lu, along with priority users such as Chien-Pao, are usually taken care of by the one-two combo of Trailblaze and Play Rough (especially when Terastallized).
  • Luxray received Trailblaze, allowing it to patch its most significant flaw (base 70 speed), which eases the prediction burden that mono-electric attackers often go through in OU, along with providing it a way to thwart common switch-ins by putting them in a range to outspeed and consistently OHKO or 2HKO.
  • Luxray's strong base 120 Attack, combined with its small but potent coverage movepool, means that most of the meta gets hit super effectively by its attacks resulting in some unexpected holes being blown in the opposing team's cores.
  • Luxray's access to Intimidate + Assault Vest with workable 80/79/79 bulk means that Luxray can stomach strong attacks in a pinch while boosting its speed and finishing off an opposing threat.
  • Luxray's offensive and defensive capabilities allow a specific type of role compression that's very hard for a Pokemon to pull off while being tanky with both Defense and Special Defense simultaneously.
  • Mono-Electric (and when Terastallized, Mono-Fairy) is a solid defensive typing that works well against most of the meta and provides Luxray with a crucial paralysis immunity that Choice Scarf or other Speed-boosting mons wish they could have.
Assault Double Tank Luxray

Luxray @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 Def / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Trailblaze
- Crunch
- Wild Charge​

Luxray's primary function is to bait out key threats in OU and surprise them with its double-boosted bulk (both from Intimidate and Assault Vest) while boosting its speed and punching holes in the opponent's team cores. Luxray almost acts like a pseudo-Zeraora but in a more offensively inclined disruptor role with notable differences. What is your first competitive instinct when you sense a strong Electric attack coming your way? Generally (barring commonly known coverage), you'd want to switch to a Ground type or a Bulky Grass type, right? This critical reaction helps Luxray work quite well, as you won't be clicking Luxray's Wild Charge anywhere near as much as you'll be clicking Traiblaze, Play Rough, and Crunch. Let's look at Luxray's EVs, starting with 208 EVs in speed; with this EV allotment and a neutral nature, Luxray's base speed is 228. If you get the +1 from Trailblaze, its base speed becomes 342. Both 228 and 342 are significant benchmarks to hit because of the key threats they outspeed, so let's see what gets outspeed at these two speed tiers.

Speed Tier Comparison

Luxray 228 - Outspeeds (Excluding
Dream_Choice_Scarf_Sprite.png
):
Amoonguss, Azumarill, Ceruledge (Bulk Up Variant), Clodsire, Corviknight (Needs 236 Speed EVs with a Neutral nature or 156 Speed EVs with Jolly nature to outspeed Luxray; most Corviknights are defensive, so both are rare), Dondozo, Dragonite (Bulky D-Dance Variant), Garganacl, Gholdengo (Nasty Plot Defensive Variant), Great Tusk (Physically Defensive Variant), Grimmsnarl (needs Jolly and 212 Speed EVs to outspeed Luxray, it cannot outspeed Luxray without a Jolly nature), Hatterene, Iron Hands, Kingambit, Rotom-Wash (Defensive Variant), Scizor (Needs 252 EVs with a Neutral nature or 172 Speed with a Jolly nature to outspeed Luxray; generally 252 Speed EVs with Adamant are only used on the offensive Swords Dance variant, not the Banded or Boots variants), Skeledirge, Ting-Lu, Torkoal, Toxapex.

Luxray 342 (+1) - Outspeeds (Excluding
Dream_Choice_Scarf_Sprite.png
):
Amoonguss, Azumarill, Ceruledge, Clodsire, Corviknight, Dondozo, Dragonite, Garchomp, Garganacl, Gholdengo, Glimmora, Great Tusk, Hatterene, Iron Hands, Iron Moth (Agility Variant pre-boost), Iron Treads (Requires 252 EVs + Jolly nature to speed tie Luxray), Pawmot, Quaquaval, Roaring Moon (All non-Jolly variants), Rotom-Wash, Scizor, Skeledirge, Ting-Lu, Torkoal, Toxapex, Volcarona.

Luxray with 208 Speed EVs outpaces most of the slower metagame and, at +1 outspeeds anything with base 105 or less speed (and also outspeeds some notable sets of Pokemon with a higher speed tier that don't max out EVs). This is why you will almost always want to click Trailblaze first so that your opponent's switch-in has a high chance of becoming setup fodder, as Trailblaze simultaneously boosts Luxray's speed while breaking Focus Sash and Multiscale along with putting certain Pokemon into KO range. Additionally, you'll want to avoid Terastallizing until the specific threat you wish to lure has switched into your Luxray. Terastallizing on the predicted switch itself will often cause a double switch that can leave you at a strategic disadvantage.

I must double-stress this point, as it's vital for Luxray's playstyle success. 90% of the time, you will want to use Trailblaze first before any other move; this is especially true if you suspect your opponent will switch Pokemon due to a bad matchup.

Offensive Capabilities

So what can it do with this speed? Simple, Luxray can heavily chunk, or OHKO, some very potent OU threats. This wouldn't be possible with Luxray's base 120 Attack and powerful coverage options in Play Rough and Crunch. Let's start with Trailblaze damage chip calculations followed by Play Rough calculations before Luxray is terastallized to give a pre-tera baseline (usually early-mid game after a Trailblaze on the predicted switch).

Trailblaze Damage Calculations (For Chip)


252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Azumarill (Band): 136-162 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill (Assault Vest): 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 68-81 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- 36.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 102-120 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp (Hazard Phaze): 60-71 (14.2 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp (Swords Dance): 60-71 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk (Offensive): 90-108 (24.2 - 29.1%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk (Physically Defensive): 68-82 (15.6 - 18.8%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 200 HP / 180+ Def Quaquaval: 102-120 (28.2 - 33.2%) -- 89.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Quaquaval: 136-162 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash (Scarf Trick): 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash (Physically Defensive): 78-94 (25.6 - 30.9%) -- 3.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Luxray Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 94-112 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Play Rough Damage Calculations (Before Terastallization)
View attachment 485917

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 246-290 (81.7 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 260-306 (82 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Almost Always OHKO with Chip)

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite (Offensive Dragon Dance): 107-126 (33.1 - 39%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO (once Multiscale is broken, Play Rough will almost always knock out Dragonite from this damage range)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite (Bulky Dragon Dance): 107-126 (29.8 - 35%) -- 16% chance to 3HKO (once Multiscale is broken, Play Rough has a good chance to knock out Dragonite from this damage range)

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 214-252 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 214-252 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 162-192 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO (2HKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 122-144 (28.1 - 33.1%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (Slight chance for 2HKO and guaranteed 3HKO with Chip)

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Grimmsnarl: 288-340 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 56 HP / 252 Def Iron Hands (Choice Band): 154-182 (33.2 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands (Swords Dance): 192-226 (42.7 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Strong 2HKO chance with Chip)

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 222-262 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 272-322 (92.8 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pawmot (Utility): 272-322 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pawmot (Offensive): 272-320 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (OHKO with Chip)

252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 200 HP / 180+ Def Quaquaval: 182-216 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (2HKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Quaquaval: 244-288 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Strong chance to OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 540-636 (130.4 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Quite a few potent Pokemon don't like to take a Play Rough, especially with hazard or Trailblaze-damage chip. This is why Play Rough is far more valuable as a base move than Wild Charge is, along with the lack of Wild Charge recoil. While some pre-Tera options can be shaky without Chip, multiple post-Tera options (especially Pokemon you intend to lure) are no longer safe once Luxray has terastallized.

Play Rough Damage Calculations (Terastallized)
View attachment 485917

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 368-434 (140.9 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 368-434 (122.2 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 390-458 (123 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 160-189 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (OHKO with Multiscale broken Chip, Dragonite cannot switch in)
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 160-189 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO (Strong chance to OHKO with Multiscale broken Chip, Dragonite cannot switch in)

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 320-378 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Strong chance to OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 320-378 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 242-288 (65.2 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Strong chance to OHKO with Chip)
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 182-216 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (2HKO with Chip)

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Grimmsnarl: 432-510 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 56 HP / 252 Def Iron Hands: 230-272 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 288-338 (64.1 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 332-392 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 408-482 (139.2 - 164.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pawmot: 408-482 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 200 HP / 180+ Def Quaquaval: 272-324 (75.3 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Quaquaval: 366-432 (117.6 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 808-952 (195.1 - 229.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fairy Luxray Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 252-296 (49 - 57.5%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (2HKO with Chip)​

Tera Fairy Play Rough is downright dangerous, as not many teams in OU have an answer for strong Physical Fairy STAB attacks, especially when that attack is Play Rough. Next up, we have Crunch, which is extremely helpful for the Pokemon that commonly resist Fairy-type attacks and carries a potent chance to drop the opponent's Defense -1, meaning that sometimes specific threats like Defensive Nasty Plot Gholdengo have to risk getting KO'd or switch out.

Crunch Damage Calculations
View attachment 485918

252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ceruledge (Swords Dance): 218-258 (74.9 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ceruledge (Bulk Up): 218-258 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 230-272 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 190-224 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 136-160 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 204-240 (53.9 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 180-214 (43.7 - 52%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Luxray Crunch vs. -1 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 272-322 (66.1 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​

While Wild Charge will not be used as commonly as your coverage moves, it's still quite helpful for certain threats that it nails super effectively. So lastly, let's look at some STAB Wild Charge super effective calculations as there aren't many times it will be using Wild Charge compared to Play Rough or Crunch.

Wild Charge Damage Calculations
View attachment 485919

252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 368-434 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 368-434 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 212-252 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 270-320 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 200 HP / 180+ Def Quaquaval (Bulk Up): 272-324 (75.3 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Quaquaval (Swords Dance): 366-432 (117.6 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Defensive Capabilities

So we've now established that Luxray can severely dent most of the OU metagame, so what about its defensive profile? With a small investment of 48 Defense EVs combined with Luxray's useful Intimidate ability + the Assault Vest item, Luxray can stomach some unexpectedly powerful attacks both pre-Tera and post-Tera. Mono-Electric only has one weakness, Ground-type attacks, while Mono-Fairy only has weaknesses to Poison and Steel-type attacks. Additionally, Mono-Fairy has useful resistances to Bug, Dark, and Fighting, along with Mono-Electric's useful resistances to Electric, Flying, and Steel-type attacks. So let's take a look at Luxray's pre-Tera Electric typing first to see just what kinds of hits it can withstand on both the physical and special side.

Defensive Calculations (Electric, Before Terastallization)

Physical Moves (-1 Intimidate):


-1 252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 135-159 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 202-238 (67.1 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 44-52 (14.6 - 17.2%) -- possible 6HKO

-1 0 Atk Dondozo Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 70-84 (23.2 - 27.9%) -- 78.6% chance to 4HKO
4 Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 75-89 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 101-119 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 194-230 (64.4 - 76.4%) -- approx. 2HKO

4 Def Garganacl Body Press vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 83-98 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 33-40 (10.9 - 13.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Salt Cure
-1 116+ Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

-1 4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 124-147 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 95-112 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 141-167 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 62-73 (20.5 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 144-171 (47.8 - 56.8%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Luxray: 180-212 (59.8 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Special Moves:

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 133-157 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 109-129 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 81-96 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 121-143 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 162-192 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 160-190 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 189-223 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 238-282 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Hatterene Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 103-123 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 133-157 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Moth Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 118-141 (39.2 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 178-211 (59.1 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8 SpA Skeledirge Torch Song vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 76-91 (25.2 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Luxray: 91-108 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 34.9% chance to 3HKO
So what happens when Luxray switches to being a Fairy type with Terastallization? Not only does it become immune to Dragon-type moves, but it can now stomach hits that it previously could not handle reliably, especially with Intimidate.

Defensive Calculations (Fairy, Terastallized)

252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 123-146 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 83-98 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 94-111 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 126-148 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 113-133 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 75-89 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 135-159 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Tera Fairy Luxray: 90-106 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO

Team Support Options

Spore


Spore allows Luxray critical switch-in opportunities, especially in the early game, where you generally don't want to terastallize if you can help it. I highly recommend Amoonguss for this specific Spore role as Regenerator keeps it healthy throughout the match, allowing more opportunities to open the floor for Luxray.

Wish Passing


Wish passing allows Luxray to remain healthy throughout the match and is generally a great idea for quite a few team compositions to begin with. Scream Tail is arguably all around more useful than Alomomola, but Alomomola's physical bulk and mono-water typing have their uses as well (along with a much higher HP stat).

Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce


Luxray does not appreciate hazard damage or hazard status, so a Pokemon to either spin away or bounce back hazards is greatly appreciated. Great Tusk and Iron Treads are both phenomenal spinners, while Hatterene is the de-facto Magic Bounce user in the tier. What you choose depends on your individual team composition.

Conclusion


Luxray is a flawed Pokemon, but this is the first generation of OU where I can confidently recommend its niche as a role-compressing lure, thanks to the new tools that it got. Generation 9's meta has been very kind to many older Pokemon, thanks to the boon of terastallization. Luxray is another one of those Pokemon who have been given a new competitive edge in life. If you play to Luxray's strengths and support it properly, you'll find that our shockingly spiky boi is a worthy addition to your properly built team!

Edit #1: Fixed grammatical / formatting issues + added dividing images I forgot to add
Edit #2: Fixed broken image
Literally a few hours ago I was randomly thinking what if luxray ended up having a use in OU and then I open up smogon and see this WHAT

Anyways I love your posts. Meta is kinda same-ish so it’s cool to see this stuff. I don’t know how you think of these really, do you scroll through the ZU Pokémon list and see if they could be good? I dunno.

Assualt Double Tank sounds like a weapon
 
Literally a few hours ago I was randomly thinking what if luxray ended up having a use in OU and then I open up smogon and see this WHAT

Anyways I love your posts. Meta is kinda same-ish so it’s cool to see this stuff. I don’t know how you think of these really, do you scroll through the ZU Pokémon list and see if they could be good? I dunno.
Thank you so much! Honestly, it depends on the Pokemon! Sometimes I go through the lower tiers and try to see if a Pokemon looks cool, sometimes I look through movepools to see if anything feels like it would help on my team builds!

I honestly just love figuring out niches for Pokemon below OU in OU
 
so for tank garchomp is there anything important you outspeed by going max speed investment instead of say sitting at 301 speed?
 
so for tank garchomp is there anything important you outspeed by going max speed investment instead of say sitting at 301 speed?
Sandy Shocks and speed tie other Garchomps. I think 301 is totally fine as well, though I would just hit 304 myself and call it a day.
 
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not calling arms to ban Iron Valiant, by no means is it overwhelming. I think you're right in that Chien Pao can overpower most of the meta when positioned correctly, but more and more creative lures and Tera bait options are being played these days, as well as higher priority on mons that can outright win the 1v1. Honestly, it would be more difficult to handle if some of the Tera ban compromises like 1 Tera per team and such were implemented, because you almost certainly know what Tera Chien Pao will run. You don't know for certain if that Great Tusk staring at you is going to Tera and Body Press you.

Speaking of Iron Valiant, it is absolutely wild to me that more teams aren't playing around with Knock Off Iron Valiant. So many switch ins HATE getting Knock Offed, but Iron Valiant wants to run 10 different moves and its hard to fit in. I was fiddling around a bit with a mixed Expert Belt set and it honestly felt pretty solid:

Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Psyshock
- Close Combat

Expert Belt can help you feign a Choice set and catch the opponent off guard, and Knock Off into a lot of switch ins just cripple them for the rest of the game. Thunder Wave in place of Knock Off was attempted but Knock Off felt so much better.
I actually prefer a 4 special attacks e-belt set. This has great coverage and can clap lopsided special walls like clod with psyshock. It makes it a balance destroyer, as they can no longer exploit life orb recoil.

If I was running a mixed e-belt set, I would replace knock off for a special move. Sure, you lose out on utility but it makes it better against balance.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
so for tank garchomp is there anything important you outspeed by going max speed investment instead of say sitting at 301 speed?
i personally do 128 jolly/naive (if im going fire blast) for outspeeding glimmoras, 128 def and max hp
 
Which I think is pretty healthy. There's a lot of flexibility and role compression you can run, with the opportunity cost being you can't also run it as the other options. It's a strange situation where it does have 4MSS, but regardless of the moveset it still always feels effective. Biggest issue for me is wanting to run both STAB + Rapid Spin + Knock Off, but also wanting Stealth Rocks and never being able to fit it. Also more people should try mixed bulk AV Great Tusk, it checks so many threats and is a pain to get rid of if you don't expect the extra special bulk.

On a different note, I think over the past couple weeks I'm seeing what everyone is saying about Chien Pao, but I feel less strongly about it because I actually use mons like Tera Steel Iron Hands and Tauros-Fire. I get that people don't want to slot in specific "niche" mons to deal with it but its never felt like I lose at team preview when I see one. There is very little set variety for it compared to other top mons, and I find Iron Valiant much more difficult to plan for because Specs, Mixed, and Calm Mind all require different checks to comfortably deal with. With Chien Pao, it comes to is it Choiced or HDB SD, and which priority does it carry. I see its breaking power and understand its a bit too strong, but it feels mindless because its basically the same 3 moves + SD or Sacred Sword depending on your item, which feels frustrating when you lose to it. At least a similar mon like EKiller Dragonite could be running a completely different set like the bulky Fire Spin trapper or DTail Roost, but when you see or build Chien Pao, its the same Chien Pao almost every time. I think the suspect will be vastly in favor of ban, and I'll likely be in favor for banning, mostly because I think the meta is healthier without it. I don't think its as clearcut as people think though, and I definitely lose more games to Iron Valiant set variety than Chien Pao cookie-cutter-same-mon-every-game.

Then again I seem to have a slightly different read on the meta than most, hence my more niche mon recommendations like Vaporeon, Iron Hands, and Dragalge. Just my 2 cents I guess. (no seriously go make an Iron Hands team right now, its so good right now)
In past gens, "have to run a check to Dangerous Mon X" has generally led to a ban when those checks weren't very good otherwise, or were very few in number. If we were resorting to Avalugg in snow as a counter being one of our top options, then Chien-Pao would deserve the ban. But:


Iron Hands can take anything except a banded Icicle Crash and OHKO back with whatever Fighting move it's carrying, and can take two banded Icicle Crashes (just barely!) with an ice resist tera if there's no hazards/it has boots.

RestTalk Dondozo will almost always live two Tera-Dark Banded Crunches, and has a 62% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed with one layer of Spikes as well), though has to beware the flinch chance.

Physically defensive Paldean Tauros (either one) can switch in and OHKO with Body Press. Offensive sets need to come in safely, but can survive a hit and OHKO.

Great Tusk loses to Icicle Crash, but can switch into anything else and OHKO. Physically defensive sets aren't even 3HKO'd by Tera-Dark Banded Crunch, and can survive a single Icicle Crash (but cannot switch into it).

Grimmsnarl (!) is like Great Tusk, dying to Icicle Crash but can otherwise switch in and set screens, though Sacred Sword will limit it to only one.

Kingambit dies to Sacred Sword, but with three allies fainted and Stealth Rock, will kill Chien-Po with Iron Head after Stealth Rock. If the Chien-Po isn't terastalized, it's an OHKO without hazards or fainted allies.

Lokix and Slither Wing can't switch in on Icicle Crash, but First Impression from either is an OHKO.

Iron Valiant can't switch into Icicle Crash, but Moonblast is a OHKO.

Klefki can switch in on anything.

(I'm sure I'm missing some).


This is just stuff that can switch in on at least three of banded Tera-Dark Chien-Pao's moves without needing to terastalize themselves; if he can't terastalize, you have far more options. Chien-Pao is initially weak to Stealth Rock, so keeping hazards up (and isn't this the perfect metagame for that?) so he's pretty vulnerable to chip if he has to repeatedly switch into hazards, drastically reducing his opportunities to come in a second time.
 
In past gens, "have to run a check to Dangerous Mon X" has generally led to a ban when those checks weren't very good otherwise, or were very few in number. If we were resorting to Avalugg in snow as a counter being one of our top options, then Chien-Pao would deserve the ban. But:


Iron Hands can take anything except a banded Icicle Crash and OHKO back with whatever Fighting move it's carrying, and can take two banded Icicle Crashes (just barely!) with an ice resist tera if there's no hazards/it has boots.

RestTalk Dondozo will almost always live two Tera-Dark Banded Crunches, and has a 62% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed with one layer of Spikes as well), though has to beware the flinch chance.

Physically defensive Paldean Tauros (either one) can switch in and OHKO with Body Press. Offensive sets need to come in safely, but can survive a hit and OHKO.

Great Tusk loses to Icicle Crash, but can switch into anything else and OHKO. Physically defensive sets aren't even 3HKO'd by Tera-Dark Banded Crunch, and can survive a single Icicle Crash (but cannot switch into it).

Grimmsnarl (!) is like Great Tusk, dying to Icicle Crash but can otherwise switch in and set screens, though Sacred Sword will limit it to only one.

Kingambit dies to Sacred Sword, but with three allies fainted and Stealth Rock, will kill Chien-Po with Iron Head after Stealth Rock. If the Chien-Po isn't terastalized, it's an OHKO without hazards or fainted allies.

Lokix and Slither Wing can't switch in on Icicle Crash, but First Impression from either is an OHKO.

Iron Valiant can't switch into Icicle Crash, but Moonblast is a OHKO.

Klefki can switch in on anything.

(I'm sure I'm missing some).


This is just stuff that can switch in on at least three of banded Tera-Dark Chien-Pao's moves without needing to terastalize themselves; if he can't terastalize, you have far more options. Chien-Pao is initially weak to Stealth Rock, so keeping hazards up (and isn't this the perfect metagame for that?) so he's pretty vulnerable to chip if he has to repeatedly switch into hazards, drastically reducing his opportunities to come in a second time.
Iron Hands has no recover so can only switch in once, maybe twice if you’re running Drain Punch.
Resttalk Dozo does get 2HKOed if Pao is adamant, and is prone to getting caught asleep and chipped down.
The Tauros don’t have recovery, and neither of them check much outside of Pao and Kingambit anyway.
Klefki is terrible.
The rest are all screwed over by a misprediction, and most of them don’t have recovery either.
Pao does have counterplay, but it’s much more limited than your post implies. I’ve also found that running Futureception Slowking with Pao lets you bring it in safely and smash past most checks thanks to Future Sight nuking all the fighting types. It’s fun as hell to use, but I don’t think Pao is a healthy presence in the meta.
 
what’s a good core that handles or counters the hazard stacking duo of gholdengo and glimmora? i know great tusk can rapid spin on both because earthquake threatens both extremely, but what’s difficult is the lead matchup. it’s very easy for glimmora to win the lead matchup with tera grass + energy ball to act as an anti-lead, or it can simply mortal spin with a focus sash to heavily cripple great tusk.

i would just like to know how everyone is handling this duo. even switching into glimmora can be difficult to prevent it from setting up hazards, because it has a wide move pool. i don’t really care too much on knowing how to prevent gholdengo being an offensive threat, as i can play around that, i just want to know a good defensive core on how to remove hazards when an opponent is using gholdengo.

i realize i can spam boots on my team and have a knock off absorber and forget about hazards, but i like being able to run other items on pokémon, especially leftovers/covert cloak for the defensive ones. pivoting and defensive play has just felt so difficult with hazards everywhere.
 
Gonna join the others on this and applaud your ability to find these niche mons and to share them with us. Also wanted to ask if you got some teams with some of these niche mons on you would like to share? My teambuilding skills suck and I would appreciate it greatly :)
Thank you so much! Of course, I'd be happy to share!

https://pokepast.es/c0186d3ab1291cf8 - Luxray OU 1
https://pokepast.es/37910f0536bc5db7 - Luxray OU 2 (The better of the two teams IMO)

These are two teams that I've been enjoying some decent success with as of recently - not fully optimized, but I think they're a good starting point and you can tailor them as you wish!
 
Since it's the lead spot you're worried about, dig into UU and pull out Tinkaton. It doesn't require much investment to OHKO Glimmora with Gigaton Hammer, and in case of sashes, you can follow it up with Knock Off. It's bulky enough to survive an Earth Power despite the ground weakness, is immune to Mortal Spin, can paralyze Gholdengo if it tries to switch in thanks to Mold Breaker, and doesn't invite in a setup sweeper since nothing much likes taking a Thunder Wave or Gigaton Hammer.

Gigaton Hammer/Knock Off/Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock makes for a nice lead.
 
what’s a good core that handles or counters the hazard stacking duo of gholdengo and glimmora? i know great tusk can rapid spin on both because earthquake threatens both extremely, but what’s difficult is the lead matchup. it’s very easy for glimmora to win the lead matchup with tera grass + energy ball to act as an anti-lead, or it can simply mortal spin with a focus sash to heavily cripple great tusk.

i would just like to know how everyone is handling this duo. even switching into glimmora can be difficult to prevent it from setting up hazards, because it has a wide move pool. i don’t really care too much on knowing how to prevent gholdengo being an offensive threat, as i can play around that, i just want to know a good defensive core on how to remove hazards when an opponent is using gholdengo.

i realize i can spam boots on my team and have a knock off absorber and forget about hazards, but i like being able to run other items on pokémon, especially leftovers/covert cloak for the defensive ones. pivoting and defensive play has just felt so difficult with hazards everywhere.
I believe Utility Hydreigon with Taunt and Earth Power can force Glimmora out, and maybe set Hazards to break sash
 
Since it's the lead spot you're worried about, dig into UU and pull out Tinkaton. It doesn't require much investment to OHKO Glimmora with Gigaton Hammer, and in case of sashes, you can follow it up with Knock Off. It's bulky enough to survive an Earth Power despite the ground weakness, is immune to Mortal Spin, can paralyze Gholdengo if it tries to switch in thanks to Mold Breaker, and doesn't invite in a setup sweeper since nothing much likes taking a Thunder Wave or Gigaton Hammer.

Gigaton Hammer/Knock Off/Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock makes for a nice lead.
well i’m also looking for ways to remove the hazards glimmora sets, immediately removing glimmora is nice, but in this scenario glimmora still gets rocks up and i have to deal with gholdengo preventing that.

do you think iron treads would be able to achieve the same thing, but better since it has rapid spin?
 
well i’m also looking for ways to remove the hazards glimmora sets, immediately removing glimmora is nice, but in this scenario glimmora still gets rocks up and i have to deal with gholdengo preventing that.

do you think iron treads would be able to achieve the same thing, but better since it has rapid spin?
I believe Taunt is the only reliable way to beat Glimmora w/o hazards set.
Or you may run scarf Farigiraf.
 
Naclstack shouldn't have a stronger Body Press than Garganacl. Eviolite does not boost BP damage.

It's also worth noting that Naclstack suffers way more from being hit with Knock Off.
eviolite boosts defence and special defence, and body press is a move that uses the user's defence in the damage calculation.

any way,I believe that you people are right.
naclstack isn't that good.
 
well i’m also looking for ways to remove the hazards glimmora sets, immediately removing glimmora is nice, but in this scenario glimmora still gets rocks up and i have to deal with gholdengo preventing that.

do you think iron treads would be able to achieve the same thing, but better since it has rapid spin?
Pair it with literally anything that can force Gholdengo out and set hazards. Either Glimmora clicked Earth Power to chunk Tinkaton and does not have rocks up, or it sets rocks and Tink is at full health to face whatever comes in after Glimmora dies/switches out. In either case, you've claimed a big early lead.
 
eviolite boosts defence and special defence, and body press is a move that uses the user's defence in the damage calculation.

any way,I believe that you people are right.
naclstack isn't that good.
The only time Body Press (and Foul Play) is boosted how you'd expect it to be boosted is with "stage" boosts like Iron Defense. Everything else (items, abilities, status effects, etc.) all interact with it as if it were a regular physical attack.
 
The only time Body Press (and Foul Play) is boosted how you'd expect it to be boosted is with "stage" boosts like Iron Defense. Everything else (items, abilities, status effects, etc.) all interact with it as if it were a regular physical attack.
If I recall well, Foul Play is boosted by Powers, and I think Band for BP?
 
eviolite boosts defence and special defence, and body press is a move that uses the user's defence in the damage calculation.

any way,I believe that you people are right.
naclstack isn't that good.
I understand why you'd think that, but it just doesn't boost Body Press. Fur Coat is much the same.
 
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