very informative thank you I think I am going to give it a tryOkay so Im back after the investigation of
"Is Grass Knot worth it in this meta?"
In case somebody doesn't, know, Grass Knot is a move that deals damage based on weight
View attachment 487201
This here is the Bulbapedia stats, so what im going to do is list all the Pokémon who weight 200 kilograms or more and see how worth it is on the end, green is good damage, orange is meh damage, purple is bad damage
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
This is the set I'm using for testing (the order of the list is weight based) and im using mons that are on the viability rankings, also, I think it should be said that im not taking tera as a factor for these calcs, so every mon here has their original types
87.5% chance to OHKO (outdamages Hydro Pump)
8.6 - 10% against bulky sets, yikes
38 - 44.7% its a 3HKO, but Ice beam and Dark Pulse do more (both 2HKO)
139.6 - 164.6% (outdamages everything by a mile)
38.8 - 46% it gets outdamage by Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, but Clodsire could be water absorb so ill make it orange
57.8 - 68.2% this calcs are against AV defensive treads, it gets outdamaged by Hydro Pump (clean OHKO)
95.5 - 112.8% Max Hp max spedef carefull it outdamages everything
104.7 - 124.2% max hp max spedef carefull, outdamages everything
168.9 - 198.8% it outdamages Hydro Pump but both archieve OHKO
58.4 - 68.8% it gets outdamaged by hydro (clean KO) but its enough to force the Berry
80.6 - 95.3% against max hp max spedef carefull AV included, it outdamages Hydro pump
26.2 - 30.9% with a 248 HP / 252+ SpD, Hydro has a 75% of OHKO
35 - 41.3% it outdoes Hydro but not Ice Beam, who KOs clean
56.1 - 66.1% against a no hp max spedef hands, it outdamages everything and secures the 2HKO
60.7 - 71.5% max hp max spedef carefull, it outdamages hydro although both archieve 2HKO status
83.6 - 98.5% its the most damaging move, altough hydro and dark pulse have a 2HKO range, unless rocks are in play then its a Hydro/grass tie
So these are all the 200 kilogram mons that you wanna use Grass Knot on, now, to answer the question, is grass knot viable?
the answer is: figure it out yourself, im tired, give me likes
EDIT: forgot about garganacl lmaooooooooooooooooo, there, fixed it
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
So i just recently peaked to number one on the leaderboard with sun, and i think Brute Bonnet may have an underrated niche as a breaker, for me, its like a bulkier crawdaunt under sun.
Now one thing about sun is, sun teams does not NEED terastalization most of the time unlike other offensive teams. Most sun threats like cinderace, great tusk, roaring moon, sandy shocks, scovillain, slither wing, usually goes by well without a tera, and usually just uses the STAB tera type, which is why you can run something that relies on tera to be good relatively well like Charizard, Ceruledge and now, Brute Bonnet.
Unga Boonguss (Brute Bonnet) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Tera Blast
- Sucker Punch / Crunch
- Spore / Crunch
The above is the set i use, you can use a higher speed tier for mons like fast kingambit, but for me this is enough. This pokemon has a really nice attack stat of 127 and under sun, it has a (pretty much) infinite protosynthesis boost due to the scarcity of weather teams. The base power of bullet seed combined with loaded dice also makes it a very nice spammable move, and the combo of Dark/Grass/Fire coverage is very hard to wall in OU, spore and sucker punch also gives it a nice utility againts more offensive teams. Yes, you do need to tera-fire but the rewards you get for it are really nice, and in sun, as i've mentioned before, non of the big sun threats really need to terastalize to get the most out of it. If you want to use it outside of sun (which i dont suggest) you can use close combat over tera blast.
So what can Brute Bonnet do?
Like i said, it acts similar to that of crawdaunt in rain, a slow but strong physical breaker with a good priority move, and unlike crawdaunt, it has amazing bulk, better than its counterpart amoonguss which lets it live some strong hits like a valiant moonblast, great tusk body press, banded breloom mach punch and many more with just minimum bulk. Many of the good physical walls, great tusk, rotom-wash, corviknight, garganacl, dondozo can't switch into this pokemon safely, and the ones that can like dragonite, doesn't have anything too strong for it and can risk a spore and in the end gets 1v1d anyways.
It's strenght over the other sun abusers lies in its bulk, spore and coverage. While it won't 2hko everything like a banded outrage roaring moon, it's great coverage with lets it hit most things super effectively, and the ones that arent hit super effectively is usually not that bulky and will die to two strong stabs with some exceptions like dragonite or physdef toxapex. Sun struggles with stuff like dragapult, cinderace and fairy volcarona and brute bonnet helps a lot with beating those without having to use a defensive mon. Brute Bonnet also beats some common walls for sun like Garganacl, Ting-Lu or Skeledirge.
One thing that turns people off about brute bonnet is its terrible defensive typing, but when you use it this way, it actually benefits from its unique set of resistances. Rain teams, Dragapults shadown ball, Rotom-Wash's stabs, Azumarill, Kingambit's Sucker Punch, and when you add tera fire onto it you can bait and beat fire move, burns, fairy moves, make it rain and way more.
Heres some replays i collected showing off its strenght in conjunction with sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783586164-j2bwuxe42rmninogqlemilpmlsfg98jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783687843-idp2nxkuo4w7wkm38ybwqv278wfredapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783631656-628czzsyp65lgar4m5mug3sa7y51azapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783592014-6ugi9wamlamq8yo3nl35gqg39ys0py5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783660953-s7p7tg9uus181elv6ibapmqrnqhey39pw
So whats its weakness?
Its speed is quite low, even some skeledirge i've faced on ladder have investments to outspeed it.
It's sometimes not strong enough, Physdef Pex can beat you outside of sun, curse dondozo or iron defense gargnacl that teras can beat you.
Its typing lets it down sometimes vs common mons like great tusk or iron valiant.
competition with other sun threats (tho i can say this with all of them).
So in conclusion, i think sun definetly has a lot of room to improve on its picks, most ive seen are zard, scovillain, cinderace, roaring moon and great tusk as its offensive threat, but i do feel other pokemon like Brute Bonnet here, deserves attention as being a really good sun threat among the others. If you want a slow, bulky, fat killing sun threat with almost unwallable coverage, try out Brute Bonnet.
My Peak:
Team i used made by Vert
https://pokepast.es/9a21443a5e324e5a
Goobye Everyone
So heres why i think Brute Bonnet is an underrated Threat under sun.
Now one thing about sun is, sun teams does not NEED terastalization most of the time unlike other offensive teams. Most sun threats like cinderace, great tusk, roaring moon, sandy shocks, scovillain, slither wing, usually goes by well without a tera, and usually just uses the STAB tera type, which is why you can run something that relies on tera to be good relatively well like Charizard, Ceruledge and now, Brute Bonnet.
Unga Boonguss (Brute Bonnet) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Tera Blast
- Sucker Punch / Crunch
- Spore / Crunch
The above is the set i use, you can use a higher speed tier for mons like fast kingambit, but for me this is enough. This pokemon has a really nice attack stat of 127 and under sun, it has a (pretty much) infinite protosynthesis boost due to the scarcity of weather teams. The base power of bullet seed combined with loaded dice also makes it a very nice spammable move, and the combo of Dark/Grass/Fire coverage is very hard to wall in OU, spore and sucker punch also gives it a nice utility againts more offensive teams. Yes, you do need to tera-fire but the rewards you get for it are really nice, and in sun, as i've mentioned before, non of the big sun threats really need to terastalize to get the most out of it. If you want to use it outside of sun (which i dont suggest) you can use close combat over tera blast.
So what can Brute Bonnet do?
Like i said, it acts similar to that of crawdaunt in rain, a slow but strong physical breaker with a good priority move, and unlike crawdaunt, it has amazing bulk, better than its counterpart amoonguss which lets it live some strong hits like a valiant moonblast, great tusk body press, banded breloom mach punch and many more with just minimum bulk. Many of the good physical walls, great tusk, rotom-wash, corviknight, garganacl, dondozo can't switch into this pokemon safely, and the ones that can like dragonite, doesn't have anything too strong for it and can risk a spore and in the end gets 1v1d anyways.
It's strenght over the other sun abusers lies in its bulk, spore and coverage. While it won't 2hko everything like a banded outrage roaring moon, it's great coverage with lets it hit most things super effectively, and the ones that arent hit super effectively is usually not that bulky and will die to two strong stabs with some exceptions like dragonite or physdef toxapex. Sun struggles with stuff like dragapult, cinderace and fairy volcarona and brute bonnet helps a lot with beating those without having to use a defensive mon. Brute Bonnet also beats some common walls for sun like Garganacl, Ting-Lu or Skeledirge.
One thing that turns people off about brute bonnet is its terrible defensive typing, but when you use it this way, it actually benefits from its unique set of resistances. Rain teams, Dragapults shadown ball, Rotom-Wash's stabs, Azumarill, Kingambit's Sucker Punch, and when you add tera fire onto it you can bait and beat fire move, burns, fairy moves, make it rain and way more.
Heres some replays i collected showing off its strenght in conjunction with sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783586164-j2bwuxe42rmninogqlemilpmlsfg98jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783687843-idp2nxkuo4w7wkm38ybwqv278wfredapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783631656-628czzsyp65lgar4m5mug3sa7y51azapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783592014-6ugi9wamlamq8yo3nl35gqg39ys0py5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783660953-s7p7tg9uus181elv6ibapmqrnqhey39pw
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Brute Bonnet in Sun: 122-146 (30.4 - 36.4%) -- 57% chance to 3HKO
252+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 294-348 (73.3 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 296-350 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 326-386 (81.2 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Brute Bonnet: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 268-316 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 189-223 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona in Sun: 337-397 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 284-336 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scream Tail in Sun: 279-328 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 425-510 (91.7 - 110.1%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 294-348 (73.3 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 296-350 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 326-386 (81.2 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Brute Bonnet: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 268-316 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 189-223 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona in Sun: 337-397 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 284-336 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scream Tail in Sun: 279-328 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 425-510 (91.7 - 110.1%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
So whats its weakness?
Its speed is quite low, even some skeledirge i've faced on ladder have investments to outspeed it.
It's sometimes not strong enough, Physdef Pex can beat you outside of sun, curse dondozo or iron defense gargnacl that teras can beat you.
Its typing lets it down sometimes vs common mons like great tusk or iron valiant.
competition with other sun threats (tho i can say this with all of them).
So in conclusion, i think sun definetly has a lot of room to improve on its picks, most ive seen are zard, scovillain, cinderace, roaring moon and great tusk as its offensive threat, but i do feel other pokemon like Brute Bonnet here, deserves attention as being a really good sun threat among the others. If you want a slow, bulky, fat killing sun threat with almost unwallable coverage, try out Brute Bonnet.
My Peak:
Team i used made by Vert
https://pokepast.es/9a21443a5e324e5a
Goobye Everyone
Results of the second SV OU tiering survey are up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/#post-9487141
it's good to see that an overwhelming majority of the playerbase is enjoying the meta right now. between the swift action of the council on the more broken elements of the tier, tera creating opportunities for a lot of niche pokemon, and game freak dropping a new mon every couple weeks (sometimes even an ou-viable one), ou has managed to still feel fresh even after new toy syndrome has worn off and the early-meta chaos has died down. good job, everyone
i remember morkal mentioning it a while back so there should eventually be a detailed breakdown of what niche vespiquen can occupy in ou. seems kind of difficult for it to function properly with chien-pao using the tier as its litterbox, but that can be said for a lot of defensive mons. (actually, is vespiquen a "defensive mon" anymore? it gets spikes now, it'll probably see more use as utility)
According to Georgie the first in the Pokémon showdown chat for Chien pao, “we’re just beginning to find the counterplay and we’re already axing it.”
Better to suspect Chien pao and give it a chance. If counterplay is beginning to come around, then people should give the meta time to develop instead of asking for quickbans.
People seem unsure if banning either Chien pao or garganacl is the right thing to do since it has checks to mons that might be hard to check post wise. Idk we will see how the meta will play out in the next few weeks.
Better to suspect Chien pao and give it a chance. If counterplay is beginning to come around, then people should give the meta time to develop instead of asking for quickbans.
People seem unsure if banning either Chien pao or garganacl is the right thing to do since it has checks to mons that might be hard to check post wise. Idk we will see how the meta will play out in the next few weeks.
Nobody said anything about “axing” anything up-front. We have been very transparent about the next action being a full, public suspect test, not a quickban. I have said it on numerous occasions in this thread alone.
Also, what counterplay is he conveniently finding for Chien-Pao?
Pretty sure it was said multiple times that it would be suspected if there was support for it. And... What counterplay has been found?? I'm real lost on that. Haven't heard anything of the sort.
oh, well, call off the whole damn suspect test in that case. it can't possibly be a problem if georgie the first in the pokemon showdown chat said that there's counterplay for it
i think i know what it is
Last edited:
I don't think I'm proficient enough to be able to find a niche for Vespiquen, but taking a very surface level glance at it, it seems like its type and movepool combination is fairly unique?
If we look at Pokemon that have access to the same moves and share a type with it...
Toxic Spikes: Venomoth, Spidops, and Forretress share a type with it.(Bug)
Toxic: Venomoth shares a type with it.(Bug)
Destiny Bond: Drifblim shares a type with it.(Flying)
Spikes: Delibird shares a type with it.(Flying)
Not saying all of these moves are good/viable on it, these are just the moves that struck me as the most unique to it(other than defend/attack order). And it seems very distinct from the other users of those moves.
So it might have some extremely specific niche?
Then please tell Georgie to share with us all this Pao counterplay, because I sure as fuck ain't seeing it. And no, running Tusk+Garg/Tusk+Pex/Garg+Corvi or any other bs core that wastes 2 slots on your team just so you don't get 2HKOd into a 6-0 and prevents you from actually having a flexible teambuilding isn't a "counterplay".
I've been experimenting a bit on the ladder in the last few days and I have a couple of questions for you guys:
1. Who do you feel are the best Scarfers right now?
2. In the current meta, who do you think is the best and most consistent Paldean starter? And which one do you have the most fun with competitively?
3. Who do you think is the best Protean mon overall from what you've experienced? Do you feel like the nerf the ability received was fair?
1. Who do you feel are the best Scarfers right now?
2. In the current meta, who do you think is the best and most consistent Paldean starter? And which one do you have the most fun with competitively?
3. Who do you think is the best Protean mon overall from what you've experienced? Do you feel like the nerf the ability received was fair?
Obviously they mean slapping Tauros-Fire on every team or being forced to slot in 2-3 checks only to lose to SD Boots Pao.
Garchomp for me. Getting rid of annoying threats like Dragapult or Roaring Moon on turn one is really nice. The team has to be built around it but it's nothing really unreasonable. Other than that, maybe that cancer cheese stick and I guess Vailant
Starter? Definitely the fire crocodile, whatever its name is. That shit is just so obnoxious to deal with especially if you have a lot of physical attackers on your team. Worse yet, this thing teras into fairy and it becomes absolute cancer. Gamefreak should nerf this damn type but they're obssessed with these pixies. While the crocodile is very fun to use, that only applies if you're the one annoying the other guy. If I'm on the receiving end of this thing, god I hate it so much
A bit too early to tell imo since Greninja got released some time ago. I always found the grass cat to be really good and it's really only held back by the fact that it has one of the worst offensive typings in the game
As for the nerf, definitely. Greninja is the only thing to base this on but it was really obnoxious when it keeps switching its type. It has near non existent defenses but it can take resisted hits really well and fire back with something that actually hurts
grass dark isn't one of the worst offensive typings in the game though?
Alright you convinced me when you compared it to Crawdaunt. I want my lobster back.So i just recently peaked to number one on the leaderboard with sun, and i think Brute Bonnet may have an underrated niche as a breaker, for me, its like a bulkier crawdaunt under sun.
So heres why i think Brute Bonnet is an underrated Threat under sun.
Now one thing about sun is, sun teams does not NEED terastalization most of the time unlike other offensive teams. Most sun threats like cinderace, great tusk, roaring moon, sandy shocks, scovillain, slither wing, usually goes by well without a tera, and usually just uses the STAB tera type, which is why you can run something that relies on tera to be good relatively well like Charizard, Ceruledge and now, Brute Bonnet.
Unga Boonguss (Brute Bonnet) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Tera Blast
- Sucker Punch / Crunch
- Spore / Crunch
The above is the set i use, you can use a higher speed tier for mons like fast kingambit, but for me this is enough. This pokemon has a really nice attack stat of 127 and under sun, it has a (pretty much) infinite protosynthesis boost due to the scarcity of weather teams. The base power of bullet seed combined with loaded dice also makes it a very nice spammable move, and the combo of Dark/Grass/Fire coverage is very hard to wall in OU, spore and sucker punch also gives it a nice utility againts more offensive teams. Yes, you do need to tera-fire but the rewards you get for it are really nice, and in sun, as i've mentioned before, non of the big sun threats really need to terastalize to get the most out of it. If you want to use it outside of sun (which i dont suggest) you can use close combat over tera blast.
So what can Brute Bonnet do?
Like i said, it acts similar to that of crawdaunt in rain, a slow but strong physical breaker with a good priority move, and unlike crawdaunt, it has amazing bulk, better than its counterpart amoonguss which lets it live some strong hits like a valiant moonblast, great tusk body press, banded breloom mach punch and many more with just minimum bulk. Many of the good physical walls, great tusk, rotom-wash, corviknight, garganacl, dondozo can't switch into this pokemon safely, and the ones that can like dragonite, doesn't have anything too strong for it and can risk a spore and in the end gets 1v1d anyways.
It's strenght over the other sun abusers lies in its bulk, spore and coverage. While it won't 2hko everything like a banded outrage roaring moon, it's great coverage with lets it hit most things super effectively, and the ones that arent hit super effectively is usually not that bulky and will die to two strong stabs with some exceptions like dragonite or physdef toxapex. Sun struggles with stuff like dragapult, cinderace and fairy volcarona and brute bonnet helps a lot with beating those without having to use a defensive mon. Brute Bonnet also beats some common walls for sun like Garganacl, Ting-Lu or Skeledirge.
One thing that turns people off about brute bonnet is its terrible defensive typing, but when you use it this way, it actually benefits from its unique set of resistances. Rain teams, Dragapults shadown ball, Rotom-Wash's stabs, Azumarill, Kingambit's Sucker Punch, and when you add tera fire onto it you can bait and beat fire move, burns, fairy moves, make it rain and way more.
Heres some replays i collected showing off its strenght in conjunction with sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783586164-j2bwuxe42rmninogqlemilpmlsfg98jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783687843-idp2nxkuo4w7wkm38ybwqv278wfredapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783631656-628czzsyp65lgar4m5mug3sa7y51azapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783592014-6ugi9wamlamq8yo3nl35gqg39ys0py5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783660953-s7p7tg9uus181elv6ibapmqrnqhey39pw
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Brute Bonnet in Sun: 122-146 (30.4 - 36.4%) -- 57% chance to 3HKO
252+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 294-348 (73.3 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 296-350 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 326-386 (81.2 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Brute Bonnet: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 268-316 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 189-223 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona in Sun: 337-397 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 284-336 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scream Tail in Sun: 279-328 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 425-510 (91.7 - 110.1%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
So whats its weakness?
Its speed is quite low, even some skeledirge i've faced on ladder have investments to outspeed it.
It's sometimes not strong enough, Physdef Pex can beat you outside of sun, curse dondozo or iron defense gargnacl that teras can beat you.
Its typing lets it down sometimes vs common mons like great tusk or iron valiant.
competition with other sun threats (tho i can say this with all of them).
So in conclusion, i think sun definetly has a lot of room to improve on its picks, most ive seen are zard, scovillain, cinderace, roaring moon and great tusk as its offensive threat, but i do feel other pokemon like Brute Bonnet here, deserves attention as being a really good sun threat among the others. If you want a slow, bulky, fat killing sun threat with almost unwallable coverage, try out Brute Bonnet.
My Peak:
View attachment 487310
Team i used made by Vert
https://pokepast.es/9a21443a5e324e5a
I mean, not worse than mono fire
Honestly, the fact that the playerbase is constantly talking and theorizing and testing and showing all these mons who are lower tier but can shine with proper niche warms my heart, this is a fun meta honestly, if chien pao and or garga goes out, maybe we can have the best metagame in a whileSo i just recently peaked to number one on the leaderboard with sun, and i think Brute Bonnet may have an underrated niche as a breaker, for me, its like a bulkier crawdaunt under sun.
So heres why i think Brute Bonnet is an underrated Threat under sun.
Now one thing about sun is, sun teams does not NEED terastalization most of the time unlike other offensive teams. Most sun threats like cinderace, great tusk, roaring moon, sandy shocks, scovillain, slither wing, usually goes by well without a tera, and usually just uses the STAB tera type, which is why you can run something that relies on tera to be good relatively well like Charizard, Ceruledge and now, Brute Bonnet.
Unga Boonguss (Brute Bonnet) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Tera Blast
- Sucker Punch / Crunch
- Spore / Crunch
The above is the set i use, you can use a higher speed tier for mons like fast kingambit, but for me this is enough. This pokemon has a really nice attack stat of 127 and under sun, it has a (pretty much) infinite protosynthesis boost due to the scarcity of weather teams. The base power of bullet seed combined with loaded dice also makes it a very nice spammable move, and the combo of Dark/Grass/Fire coverage is very hard to wall in OU, spore and sucker punch also gives it a nice utility againts more offensive teams. Yes, you do need to tera-fire but the rewards you get for it are really nice, and in sun, as i've mentioned before, non of the big sun threats really need to terastalize to get the most out of it. If you want to use it outside of sun (which i dont suggest) you can use close combat over tera blast.
So what can Brute Bonnet do?
Like i said, it acts similar to that of crawdaunt in rain, a slow but strong physical breaker with a good priority move, and unlike crawdaunt, it has amazing bulk, better than its counterpart amoonguss which lets it live some strong hits like a valiant moonblast, great tusk body press, banded breloom mach punch and many more with just minimum bulk. Many of the good physical walls, great tusk, rotom-wash, corviknight, garganacl, dondozo can't switch into this pokemon safely, and the ones that can like dragonite, doesn't have anything too strong for it and can risk a spore and in the end gets 1v1d anyways.
It's strenght over the other sun abusers lies in its bulk, spore and coverage. While it won't 2hko everything like a banded outrage roaring moon, it's great coverage with lets it hit most things super effectively, and the ones that arent hit super effectively is usually not that bulky and will die to two strong stabs with some exceptions like dragonite or physdef toxapex. Sun struggles with stuff like dragapult, cinderace and fairy volcarona and brute bonnet helps a lot with beating those without having to use a defensive mon. Brute Bonnet also beats some common walls for sun like Garganacl, Ting-Lu or Skeledirge.
One thing that turns people off about brute bonnet is its terrible defensive typing, but when you use it this way, it actually benefits from its unique set of resistances. Rain teams, Dragapults shadown ball, Rotom-Wash's stabs, Azumarill, Kingambit's Sucker Punch, and when you add tera fire onto it you can bait and beat fire move, burns, fairy moves, make it rain and way more.
Heres some replays i collected showing off its strenght in conjunction with sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783586164-j2bwuxe42rmninogqlemilpmlsfg98jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783687843-idp2nxkuo4w7wkm38ybwqv278wfredapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783631656-628czzsyp65lgar4m5mug3sa7y51azapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783592014-6ugi9wamlamq8yo3nl35gqg39ys0py5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1783660953-s7p7tg9uus181elv6ibapmqrnqhey39pw
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Brute Bonnet in Sun: 122-146 (30.4 - 36.4%) -- 57% chance to 3HKO
252+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 294-348 (73.3 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 296-350 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 326-386 (81.2 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Brute Bonnet: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Brute Bonnet: 268-316 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 189-223 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona in Sun: 337-397 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 284-336 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scream Tail in Sun: 279-328 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Brute Bonnet Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 425-510 (91.7 - 110.1%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
So whats its weakness?
Its speed is quite low, even some skeledirge i've faced on ladder have investments to outspeed it.
It's sometimes not strong enough, Physdef Pex can beat you outside of sun, curse dondozo or iron defense gargnacl that teras can beat you.
Its typing lets it down sometimes vs common mons like great tusk or iron valiant.
competition with other sun threats (tho i can say this with all of them).
So in conclusion, i think sun definetly has a lot of room to improve on its picks, most ive seen are zard, scovillain, cinderace, roaring moon and great tusk as its offensive threat, but i do feel other pokemon like Brute Bonnet here, deserves attention as being a really good sun threat among the others. If you want a slow, bulky, fat killing sun threat with almost unwallable coverage, try out Brute Bonnet.
My Peak:
View attachment 487310
Team i used made by Vert
https://pokepast.es/9a21443a5e324e5a
Dark? Definitely not. Grass, a different story
Meowscarada's issue as a Protean Mon (or at least a comparative disadvantage) is moreso that its movepool isn't as high BP as Cinderace's and the coverage it gets in just a few moves isn't quite as oppressive as what Greninja could manage. Grass/Dark aren't bad offensive typings but they're more easily tanked than Fire or Fighting for example (plus Knock Off, while good utility, only hits that hard the first time).
I'd say Cinderace is holding up the best thanks to its speed and having the most immediate power of the Protean users. Not that the other two are bad (we haven't had much time with Gren yet), but Meowscarada feels almost like it was designed around the old version of Protean with its more reigned-in Base Power and Coverage options (were it to be "always-STAB" instead of just first STAB).
I'd say Cinderace is holding up the best thanks to its speed and having the most immediate power of the Protean users. Not that the other two are bad (we haven't had much time with Gren yet), but Meowscarada feels almost like it was designed around the old version of Protean with its more reigned-in Base Power and Coverage options (were it to be "always-STAB" instead of just first STAB).
1. Hard call, honestly. Dengo is a really good scarfer, but I've been loving the hell out of scarf Cinderace. Catches so many people off guard when they try to switch in opposing, slower scarfers or things like Chien-Pao just to eat a Pyro Ball.
2. Dirge to both. Unaware is just such a stupidly strong ability. Mix that in with a good Sub set and you just sit on things for days.
3. I'm still tinkering around with Gren and trying to build around it (right now I have it slotted into an older team that was built around Gallade). So far, I think Meowscarada is the best Protean clone, not only from a stat creep but from coverage and utility as well. Hits the hardest, has probably the most diverse move pool of the three, has Knock Off... Like this cat does it all.
Shadow Ball is not bad , but hex is more long term . Wow allows you to cripple physical attackers , and is also a nice way to get chip damage on toxapex or other poison types .
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1.Gholdengo
2.Skeledirge
3.Its would be too fast to answer this one considering gren came out recently
We're midway into week 2 of SPL now, and I wanted to comment on one trend that we've seen so far. Obviously, Great Tusk is an incredible mon with ridiculously high usage, but there's an option that, while not a completely new innovation, has been getting a ton of traction recently:
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water / Ground
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / Headlong Rush
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Above is a sample set, details like EV spread/moveset/Tera type may vary.
Calling Bulk Up a "set" is perhaps a stretch. It's more of a filler option that can be slotted onto any Leftovers variant that greatly increases how threatening Tusk is, and can even turn it into a bulky win condition when the stars align. This means that Bulk Up Tusk still does all of the usual Tusk things — it spins, it pivots into half the meta, it hits hard, you get the gist. Running Bulk Up basically just means giving up the slot that would normally be occupied by Stealth Rock, Fighting STAB, or Ice Spinner.
Nonetheless, Bulk Up is cool because it feels like it plays in such interesting ways. Unlike, say, Bulk Up Quaquaval or Corviknight, this set isn't hoping to boost up to +4/+4 and sweep from there. It's instead acting as a way to "forcibly" generate pressure; if your opponent tries to stall out Tusk with some passive wall, Tusk will just boost up and either force it out or threaten a sweep. The move compliments Rapid Spin particularly well, being able to pick its boosting move and thereby acting as a budget Double Dance Lando-T in many endgames; but unlike Lando-T, it can make progress against its walls via Knock Off, and provides utility for the team through its natural bulk and Spin access.
The set might seem pressed for moveslots on paper, but it's hard to overstate how well this thing plays in practice. Set up with Bulk Up, fire off a Knock Off, remove hazards with Spin, or just fire off a powerful STAB... the nice thing is that all of these are viable choices in many gamestates (e.g. when in vs Kingambit). Indeed, a large part of what makes this set threatening is that your opponent needs to play around your powerful offensive options, giving you a lot of free turns to just make incremental progress with Knocks and Spins while getting Lefties recovery. Hell, its Rapid Spins hit surprisingly hard after a Bulk Up, so if your opponent gives you a free turn or two to set up (more common than it sounds because of opponents trying to pivot around Knock Off), you can often just spam Spins, 2hko something, and clean from there with your Shift Gear'd Tusk.
Bulk Up Great Tusk LOVES the current popularity of Kingambit in particular, able to abuse them to... do whatever, really. As a result, it pairs well with teammates that tend to invite Kingambit in. This perhaps explains why it's been a somewhat common sight this SPL: it's a fantastic partner for Chien-Pao, especially CB sets or those lacking Sacred Sword, since Chien-Pao often invites in Kingambit and Great Tusk can exploit that for some free progress.
There are some liabilities with this set. Tusk despises status, as they neutralize or overpower its recovery and can weaken its attacks, to the point where I've considered Tera Fire on it. This choice might seem bizarre, but it gives a valuable Wisp immunity, which is very nice for bulky Volcaronas, and can sometimes catch Wisp Pult off guard as well. Still, the tried-and-true option is a defensive Tera like Water, or alternatively Ground to boost your STAB. Pairing BU Tusk with something like Toxapex or Garganacl as a status absorber is a good idea. Another thing to note is that giving Tusk a bulky wincon-type role makes it super reliant on Leftovers, which results in it being scared out by Knock Offs; against opposing Tusks, you often have to choose between switching out (and Tusk doesn't have that many things that really want to switch into it) or getting Knocked and vastly decreasing your chances of a late game Bulk Up win.
Still, Bulk Up has proven itself to be quite a potent option, and it plays very well. The name of the game is "pressure": having this tool in Great Tusk's moveset significantly constraints its counterplay as Bulk Up punishes wasted turns and "safe" pivots incredibly hard, and Tusk was a pretty hard mon to handle in the first place. It's a super fun set to play around with, if you haven't already. When you make some clever Bulk Up → Rapid Spin play and get a couple kills, you feel like a genius outwitting all those ladder scrubs with your excellent play. And really, why else would you play Pokemon?
Some SPL replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-670232
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669709
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669445
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-670047
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water / Ground
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / Headlong Rush
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Above is a sample set, details like EV spread/moveset/Tera type may vary.
Calling Bulk Up a "set" is perhaps a stretch. It's more of a filler option that can be slotted onto any Leftovers variant that greatly increases how threatening Tusk is, and can even turn it into a bulky win condition when the stars align. This means that Bulk Up Tusk still does all of the usual Tusk things — it spins, it pivots into half the meta, it hits hard, you get the gist. Running Bulk Up basically just means giving up the slot that would normally be occupied by Stealth Rock, Fighting STAB, or Ice Spinner.
Nonetheless, Bulk Up is cool because it feels like it plays in such interesting ways. Unlike, say, Bulk Up Quaquaval or Corviknight, this set isn't hoping to boost up to +4/+4 and sweep from there. It's instead acting as a way to "forcibly" generate pressure; if your opponent tries to stall out Tusk with some passive wall, Tusk will just boost up and either force it out or threaten a sweep. The move compliments Rapid Spin particularly well, being able to pick its boosting move and thereby acting as a budget Double Dance Lando-T in many endgames; but unlike Lando-T, it can make progress against its walls via Knock Off, and provides utility for the team through its natural bulk and Spin access.
The set might seem pressed for moveslots on paper, but it's hard to overstate how well this thing plays in practice. Set up with Bulk Up, fire off a Knock Off, remove hazards with Spin, or just fire off a powerful STAB... the nice thing is that all of these are viable choices in many gamestates (e.g. when in vs Kingambit). Indeed, a large part of what makes this set threatening is that your opponent needs to play around your powerful offensive options, giving you a lot of free turns to just make incremental progress with Knocks and Spins while getting Lefties recovery. Hell, its Rapid Spins hit surprisingly hard after a Bulk Up, so if your opponent gives you a free turn or two to set up (more common than it sounds because of opponents trying to pivot around Knock Off), you can often just spam Spins, 2hko something, and clean from there with your Shift Gear'd Tusk.
Bulk Up Great Tusk LOVES the current popularity of Kingambit in particular, able to abuse them to... do whatever, really. As a result, it pairs well with teammates that tend to invite Kingambit in. This perhaps explains why it's been a somewhat common sight this SPL: it's a fantastic partner for Chien-Pao, especially CB sets or those lacking Sacred Sword, since Chien-Pao often invites in Kingambit and Great Tusk can exploit that for some free progress.
There are some liabilities with this set. Tusk despises status, as they neutralize or overpower its recovery and can weaken its attacks, to the point where I've considered Tera Fire on it. This choice might seem bizarre, but it gives a valuable Wisp immunity, which is very nice for bulky Volcaronas, and can sometimes catch Wisp Pult off guard as well. Still, the tried-and-true option is a defensive Tera like Water, or alternatively Ground to boost your STAB. Pairing BU Tusk with something like Toxapex or Garganacl as a status absorber is a good idea. Another thing to note is that giving Tusk a bulky wincon-type role makes it super reliant on Leftovers, which results in it being scared out by Knock Offs; against opposing Tusks, you often have to choose between switching out (and Tusk doesn't have that many things that really want to switch into it) or getting Knocked and vastly decreasing your chances of a late game Bulk Up win.
Still, Bulk Up has proven itself to be quite a potent option, and it plays very well. The name of the game is "pressure": having this tool in Great Tusk's moveset significantly constraints its counterplay as Bulk Up punishes wasted turns and "safe" pivots incredibly hard, and Tusk was a pretty hard mon to handle in the first place. It's a super fun set to play around with, if you haven't already. When you make some clever Bulk Up → Rapid Spin play and get a couple kills, you feel like a genius outwitting all those ladder scrubs with your excellent play. And really, why else would you play Pokemon?
Some SPL replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-670232
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669709
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669445
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-670047
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