Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Soiramio3000]

I just noticed that zoroark (the regular one, not the hisuian) has a move named night daze that has a 40% chance of dropping the opponent's accuracy.
why is this move placed on the "usually useless"?

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I just noticed that zoroark (the regular one, not the hisuian) has a move named night daze that has a 40% chance of dropping the opponent's accuracy.
why is this move placed on the "usually useless"?

I guess because Dark Pulse is the preferred move

 

[Soiramio3000]

I guess because Dark Pulse is the preferred move

why would people preffer dark pulse?
it deals less damage.
is the 5% miss chance really that much of a turn off?

 

[Rarycaris]

why would people preffer dark pulse?
it deals less damage.
is the 5% miss chance really that much of a turn off?

The accuracy loss hurts on a mon like Zoroark, but losing the 20% flinch chance is a pretty big deal aswell (for comparison, Night Daze has a little under 10% chance of negating an opponent's turn via its secondary effect once your own accuracy is accounted for). Not to mention that Night Daze is a big massive "this is the Zoroark" telegraph in a way that Dark Pulse might not be against an inattentive opponent.

 

[YNM]

I'm currently laddering for the suspect test and I have a question for the people that are pro-ban, since I've yet to decide what I'll be voting: do you think that Wake is a problem overall or is it mainly overwhelming because of Sun teams?

 

[Soiramio3000]

walking wake absolutely needs to be banned as soon as posible.
it is extreemly centralizing.

all day I encounter one sun team after the other.
and half of them have the exact same pokemon.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I'm currently laddering for the suspect test and I have a question for the people that are pro-ban, since I've yet to decide what I'll be voting: do you think that Wake is a problem overall or is it mainly overwhelming because of Sun teams?

wake is entirely as good as it is because of sun, but that doesn't make it not banworthy. the current meta is suffering because of walking wake on sun teams. sun teams are manageable outside of walking wake, or at the very least no one's had serious complaints about them since the chi-yu ban. so clearly walking wake is the part of the equation that's making the meta unhealthy right now.

also, the mere fact that tiering action was called against it this quickly without a survey should indicate that something's up. the council only tends to act this quickly when something is seriously warping the meta.

 

[1LDK]

Maybe if all the weathers could get a very own Walking wake, one with swift swim, one with sand rush, and one with slush rush, we go back to gen 5, and now it's all balanced, bro imagine gen 5 with these proto mons, Hatterene AND dugtrio

 

[YNM]

wake is entirely as good as it is because of sun, but that doesn't make it not banworthy. the current meta is suffering because of walking wake on sun teams. sun teams are manageable outside of walking wake, or at the very least no one's had serious complaints about them since the chi-yu ban. so clearly walking wake is the part of the equation that's making the meta unhealthy right now.

also, the mere fact that tiering action was called against it this quickly without a survey should indicate that something's up. the council only tends to act this quickly when something is seriously warping the meta.

I honestly didn't wanna ban this mon this quickly, but the more games I played the more I realized just how centralising Wake actually is. Suspect tests really help you figure out the state of the meta, and I guess this mon is better off sent to the Shadow Realm after all.

Also just got my reqs so ggs.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I honestly didn't wanna ban this mon this quickly, but the more games I played the more I realized just how centralising Wake actually is. Suspect tests really help you figure out the state of the meta, and I guess this mon is better off sent to the Shadow Realm after all.

View attachment 497316

Also just got my reqs so ggs.

inb4 some walking wake apologist responds with a "perfectly balanced, as all things should be" gif

 

[awyp]

I'm currently laddering for the suspect test and I have a question for the people that are pro-ban, since I've yet to decide what I'll be voting: do you think that Wake is a problem overall or is it mainly overwhelming because of Sun teams?

how easy is to set Sun teams is the problem since Tyranitar usage is minimal. The only other way is Rain teams which is decently common but that doesn’t really stop Walking Wake since water moves are getting powered regardless

 

[SpritePony]

I don't get this though. It doesn't matter if YOU personally dislike a set, it's the standard set, and suggesting things that are deemed less effective overall just to check this thing is not it. You claiming that yeah I ran Scarf Valiant to check Chien Pao is not the boost to your argument you think it is.

This just in: Local person has opinions that others don't like. More at 6.

Unrelated note: Been screwing around with an Electric Terrain heavy team. Pincurchin sucks so bad that I'd rather use literally anything else in the game to set E Terrain. +2, Quark Drive, E Terrain, Life Orb Boosted Psyblade is absolutely terrifying to watch in action (tore through 4 Pokemon in a team before Virizion Wireless over here finally keeled over). aaand E Terrain teams are pretty bad overall. You die to opposing Valiants if they're Scarfed, or you lose the speed tie.

 

[G-Luke]

This just in: Local person has opinions that others don't like. More at 6.

Unrelated note: Been screwing around with an Electric Terrain heavy team. Pincurchin sucks so bad that I'd rather use literally anything else in the game to set E Terrain. +2, Quark Drive, E Terrain, Life Orb Boosted Psyblade is absolutely terrifying to watch in action (tore through 4 Pokemon in a team before Virizion Wireless over here finally keeled over). aaand E Terrain teams are pretty bad overall. You die to opposing Valiants if they're Scarfed, or you lose the speed tie.

It's not about liking opinions or not. It's about running suboptimal sets to try and check a Pokemon in response to people complaining said Pokemon lacks reliable counterplay. You can run anything you want, but don't pretend that it's suddenly a reasonable suggestion to make to others to run. Scarf Valiant in the current metagame isn't that great, it would much rather nuke or have the ability to switch around options.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

you know I gave it some thought. What exactly switches into Choice Band Roaring Moon in Sun (+Atk) well?

This occurs more commonly with Walking Wake around, just food for thought.

 

[SpritePony]

It's not about liking opinions or not. It's about running suboptimal sets to try and check a Pokemon in response to people complaining said Pokemon lacks reliable counterplay. You can run anything you want, but don't pretend that it's suddenly a reasonable suggestion to make to others to run. Scarf Valiant in the current metagame isn't that great, it would much rather nuke or have the ability to switch around options.

And I'd rather not have a waste of an item slot on a one-time use item that wears off after switching out/being forced out.
Oh look, I used my Booster Energy to up my speed! Now they swapped into something that hard checks me and I have to switch out, losing my speed boost! Now I'm just a normal ass, normal Iron Valiant that has no item anymore!

Seriously, even Focus Sash is a better item. The only Pokemon that can fully make use of is Roaring Moon, Iron Bundle (because it has no solid checks), and DEBATABLY Iron Moth.

Roaring Moon doesn't mind being forced out after a Booster proc because it'll both have Acrobatics boosted, and have Dragon Dance in its kit to get that speed back later. Valiant has neither of these things.

Iron Bundle makes great use of it (even if it is banned) because there was basically no solid checks to it. Gastro/Clod with Tera Steel was your best option, and even that wasn't great.

Iron Moth makes use of it because Moth doesn't get anything good for boosting. You get Agility, whoopee.

Band, Specs, Scarf, Sash, Life Orb, and Expert Belt are all leagues better than Energy Booster on Valiant. That's my opinion on it, that's where it will stay.

you know I gave it some thought. What exactly switches into Choice Band Roaring Moon in Sun (+Atk) well?

This occurs more commonly with Walking Wake around, just food for thought.

I mean Corviknight can, but it HATES coming in a banded Crunch.

 

[658Greninja]

you know I gave it some thought. What exactly switches into Choice Band Roaring Moon in Sun (+Atk) well?

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I mean Corviknight can, but it HATES coming in a banded Crunch.

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 204-241 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note however that this is the Adamant Calc, which I dislike as a set. Jolly does:

252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 186-220 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anything defensively weaker than fully invested 98 / 105 physical defenses getbasically 2HKO

Edit: Never mind, the Tusk is a good point.

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Hey, just got done getting reqs with a pretty unorthodox team but wanted to give a huge s/o to one Pokemon

Cinderace @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick​

Just a very good anti cheese Pokemon and revenger. Choice Scarf lets it check defensive Volcarona even easier, and KOs offensive after small chip. U-turn lets it chip Walking Wake to put it in range of several attacks including its own HJK (turn into hjk is 96 min). Outspeeds +1 Walking Wake, +2 Polteageist, Booster Iron Jugulis, Booster Iron Treads, Booster Iron Valiant, Golduck in Rain, and ties with +1 Jolly Roaring Moon. Tera Fighting powers up HJK, turns its Stealth Rock weakness into a resist, resists Kingambit's Sucker Punch, and can take an Earthquake from Great Tusk in an emergency. It did its job whenever it wasn't busy missing:)

Special s/o to Choice Specs Dragonite cause it also did wonders since no one is expecting it rn and easily baits in Great Tusk, Rotom-W, and Skeledirge for Cinderace to take advantage of.

 

[tr8orsrequiem]

View attachment 497340

The amount of people in this thread completely forgetting about Kid Named Great Tusk is hilarious to me. It's bizarre, given that it's probably one of the most impactful mons in the tier defensively/utility wise and is still very good offensively. I wonder how many people here actually play OU.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Oh look, I used my Booster Energy to up my speed! Now they swapped into something that hard checks me and I have to switch out, losing my speed boost! Now I'm just a normal ass, normal Iron Valiant that has no item anymore!

A speed boosted Iron Valiant doesn't have a lot of hard checks on offensive teams, especially not if it manages to snag a Calm Mind or Swords Dance boost. Forcing it out isn't going to be so easy as you make it sound if it is positioned well and you don't have one of its several defensive checks. I think you are trying to imagine Booster Energy Valiant in roles that it isn't mean to take (dependable speed control, actual wallbreaker), but if you want it to be a late game cleaner there is nothing better than Booster Energy.
I get that it has limitations and can be susceptible to be burned early, but if it wasn't a good item it wouldn't still be on the majority of Valiants in top ladder, I'm sorry.

 

[1LDK]

Just found a Proto SpA boosted Walking wake with Agility, lost first attempt at reqs
We truly need a "therapy group for ragequits" and or a "Memetagame disscussion" to post memes

honestly, I would ban it just to let gargnacl get free thanks to one less check.

In another set of news, for the people who are running sun, what's your way out of CM Hatterene?

 

[Return to Zero]

In another set of news, for the people who are running sun, what's your way out of CM Hatterene?

Roaring Moon's Iron Head helps, especially if you make them click Psyshock to get in or come in on a boosting turn. I like Tera Steel with Choice Band anyway.

 

[1LDK]

Any other option besides that one?

 

[Ehmcee]

Any other option besides that one?

Ceruledge should do decently well against it, the FS sash set ohkos at +2 with bitter blade.

 

[Return to Zero]

Gholdengo can OHKO with Make It Rain and live a sun-boosted Mystical Fire afterwards if it needs to for some reason. Kingambit does the same but with an Iron Head 2HKO. It's cheesy, but you can always use Grimmsnarl to force it out by bouncing your own Parting Shot back at it.