Project Metagame Workshop

[prunyy]

Just something I have been thinking about:

BatonMons
Metagame Premise:
Upon switching out, but not dying, a Pokemon automatically Baton Passes.
Bans:
Standard Smogon clauses, OU bans, maybe Unaware/Natural Cure, Trapping, Perish Song, Moody
Threats:
Increased Viability:
Condition placers , Guts , Setup Sweepers , Unaware , Natural Cure , Stuff with body press and high defense
Decreased Viability:
Anything that dies quickly, because it breaks setups.
Questions:
Should pokemon baton pass upon dying?

So I’ve been thinking of this, and trying to tell myself that this hopefully won’t turn into snowballing because you can also pass around defensive stat boosts and there are things like Haze which get rid of boosts. Stored Power and Power Trip are also quite scary.

However, things like Focus Energy which can pass through defense boosts and cannot be removed by opposing pokemon. Confusion, Leech Seed, Substitute, Curse are also all things that get passed around. With these, the meta will be kind of painful to play. Nothing you do will get rid of a Ghost type Curse, so now what? You can make entire stall teams based on giving the opponent Curse and letting them not break through you, with nothing you can do. Yes, you can ban these moves but at that point, it takes too much away from the actual mechanic.

Maybe this OM works but I am skeptical.

I also don’t see why Guts and Natural Cure would be good here.

Also you mention in the premise that “upon switching out, but not dying” so you answered your own question.

 

[PQRDG]

Just something I have been thinking about:

BatonMons
Metagame Premise:
Upon switching out, but not dying, a Pokemon automatically Baton Passes.
Bans:
Standard Smogon clauses, OU bans, maybe Unaware/Natural Cure, Trapping, Perish Song, Moody
Threats:
Increased Viability:
Condition placers , Guts , Setup Sweepers , Unaware , Natural Cure , Stuff with body press and high defense
Decreased Viability:
Anything that dies quickly, because it breaks setups.
Questions:
Should pokemon baton pass upon dying?

This seems problematic, mainly due to the fact that Baton Pass has been banned for a reason in pretty much every competitive meta. Baton Pass teams in the past proved to be a lot to deal with in general, and forcing teams to be that all the time is not fun. More than that, it would in theory be allowed that moves like Volt Switch/U-Turn, and items like the Eject Button could also maintain the baton passing effect, which seems like a lot to handle.

If Teleport ever gets its increased distribution like last generation, this may also prove to be an issue, as it would be the classic teleport plays but giving you even more freedom to bring in the most appropriate counter to the situation at hand... while also being baton pass. I genuinely think this meta will not be fun to play.

 

[Cuddly]

Just something I have been thinking about:

BatonMons
Metagame Premise:
Upon switching out, but not dying, a Pokemon automatically Baton Passes.
Bans:
Standard Smogon clauses, OU bans, maybe Unaware/Natural Cure, Trapping, Perish Song, Moody
Threats:
Increased Viability:
Condition placers , Guts , Setup Sweepers , Unaware , Natural Cure , Stuff with body press and high defense
Decreased Viability:
Anything that dies quickly, because it breaks setups.
Questions:
Should pokemon baton pass upon dying?

Big problem with this meta is that effectively every team and battle will be the same. You just make a standard Baton Pass team, but freeing up a moveslot, and who ever gets the ko first (probably through crits too) wins.
Also when you manage to get max stats, everything ends up being equalized and ultimately nothing, besides that first KO, really changes. Might as well have the Meta be who ever scores the first KO wins, which would actually have more of a dynamic to it.

 

[RNGWizard]

making minor updates on my metagame based on feedback

Sneak Peek​

Premise: When your pokemon is sent out, it gets a 5th move that is copied from your opponent’s 4th moveslot, which stays until your pokemon switches out. That 5th move will have the same amount of remaining pp as your opponent’s 4th move.
Potential bans: normal OU bans
Strategy:
- Since the opponent gets access to your last move, you will have to make sure that anything you put in the 4th move slot can’t be abused by your opponent.
- It’s probably a bad idea to put powerful set up moves like shell smash there as they allow opposing mons who don’t normally have access to those to use them.
- Baiting switches from the opponent is important in this format to potentially gain a certain move from a certain mon.
- Pokemon that can function well with only 3 moves could be good here as they could run a useless 4th move and won’t have to give the opponent a viable move.
- Pokemon with a situational 4th move like stored power on or icicle spear on will increase in viability as the opponent will very rarely get a use out of that
- You'll know ur opponent's 4th move, can help with scouting ig
Questions that got answered:
What should happen if your mon already has the move in your opponent’s 4th moveslot? the PP left on ur opponent's move gets added to ur own move until you switch out. The temporary PP gets used up first.
If a mon runs out of pp on their 4th move, what should happen when an opposing mon switches in? It will give you a move with no PP

 

[Cuddly]

making minor updates on my metagame based on feedback

Sneak Peek​

Premise: When your pokemon is sent out, it gets a 5th move that is copied from your opponent’s 4th moveslot, which stays until your pokemon switches out. That 5th move will have the same amount of remaining pp as your opponent’s 4th move.
Potential bans: normal OU bans
Strategy:
- Since the opponent gets access to your last move, you will have to make sure that anything you put in the 4th move slot can’t be abused by your opponent.
- It’s probably a bad idea to put powerful set up moves like shell smash there as they allow opposing mons who don’t normally have access to those to use them.
- Baiting switches from the opponent is important in this format to potentially gain a certain move from a certain mon.
- Pokemon that can function well with only 3 moves could be good here as they could run a useless 4th move and won’t have to give the opponent a viable move.
- Pokemon with a situational 4th move like stored power on or icicle spear on will increase in viability as the opponent will very rarely get a use out of that
- You'll know ur opponent's 4th move, can help with scouting ig
Questions that got answered:
What should happen if your mon already has the move in your opponent’s 4th moveslot? the PP left on ur opponent's move gets added to ur own move until you switch out. The temporary PP gets used up first.
If a mon runs out of pp on their 4th move, what should happen when an opposing mon switches in? It will give you a move with no PP

I said this last time, and I’ll say it again.
The problem with the Metagame here is that it’ll be basically vanilla OU but you are self concious of what moves you put into the 4th slot. It doesn’t provide any ways to be creative with sets. Best way I can describe it is how Special Attackers will use 0 IVs and a - nature in Attack to slightly optimize comfusion/foul play.

I think the best solution I can think of is your own 4th slot positively affecting your team, rather than other way around.

 

[aSiegel]

Doubilities​

Premise: Pokémon may have an ability in their item slot rather than an item. If this is the case, the Pokémon can have two abilities simultaneously. Another way of thinking this is that any Pokémon can have one of their regular abilities, coupled with a second ability of their choice.
Banned Abilities in the Item Slot: Wonder Guard, Regenerator, Good as Gold, Illusion, Gale Wings, Mold Breaker (Or any similar ability), Snow Cloak and Sand Veil, Moody, Arena Trap and Shadow Tag, Imposter, Ice Scales, Speed Boost, and Huge Power or Pure Power.
Banned Ability Combinations: Hustle + No Guard, Mycelium Might + Prankster, Tablets of Ruin + Vessel of Ruin, and Unaware + Magic Bounce.
Banned Pokémon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin, Iron Bundle, and Gholdengo.

Potential Strategies:
1. Reverse hazard setting with Toxic Spikes and Court Change could allow teams to run Pokémon with any combination of Poison Heal, Guts, and Quick Feet for Hyper Offense.
2. Sun Teams with any combination of Solar Power, Chlorophyll, and Protosynthesis would serve well in this OM.
3. Any Pokémon that naturally gets Regenerator can have a second ability like Unaware, Fluffy, or Magic Bounce for Stall purposes.
4. It might benefit more to run an item on a Pokémon rather than a second ability, like Heavy-Duty-Boots on a Flying or Fire type, or a Heat Rock on a sun setter for instance.

Potential Sets:

Maushold @ Skill Link
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Bullet Seed
- Tidy Up
- Shadow Claw

Magnezone @ Earth Eater
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 192 Def / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Body Press

Azumarill @ Queenly Majesty
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Play Rough

Garchomp @ Toxic Debris
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake

Dragonite @ Adaptability
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

Questions:
1. Are there any broken ability or Pokémon combinations I'm missing that should be banned?
2. Are any of the bans that I listed not as broken as I'm thinking?
3. Is this too similar to any other OMs?
4. The other premise I had for this OM is that nicknaming a Pokémon a certain ability gives it that ability, rather than a held item. I felt as though this would be too broken for strategies reliant on Toxic Orb or Flame Orb, and especially broken for Starf Berry + Harvest + Cheek Pouch. With certain bans, however, this might be even more fun as you could have a Pokémon with two abilities and a held item. Should this be the approach, or should I stick to the original idea of held abilities?

 

[Turtlek]

Is this too similar to any other OMs?

To Multibility, which is basically the same

 

[zuki_]

Premise: Pokemon in slots 1&2, 3&4, and 5&6 share there current movesets and Ability with each other.

So a Rotom-Wash in slot 1 iron moth in slot 2 both have the abilities levitate and Quark Drive active at the same time and both have 8 moves to click.

Some possible bans: magnet pull, Good as Gold, magic bounce, ice scales,Unburden,Booster Energy,Walking Wake

Bans: All standard OU tier clauses, Contrary, Comatose, shed tail, Last Respects, Koraidon, Miraidon

increased viability:

levitate users like rotom and Hydreigon to give levitate to a ground weak pokemon to help there matchups vs ground types/pokemon with ground coverage.

Regenerator users like Toxapex Slowking, Amoonguss, etc, can combo with bulky attackers with no recovery like garchomp or pokemon like ting lu, or pivots to get a pivot move and give Regenerator to those pivots.

Toxapex can improve its av set with volt switch/u-turn, and Volt Absorb/levitate can be given to it from a team mate to help vs great tusk/electrics.

Walking Wake giving a team mate both Protosynthesis and Hydro Steam would be crazy for sun teams.

Volcarona is crazy giving quiver dance to a team mate and being able to get covrage to deal with some of its checks without requiring tera.

Garganacl has a lot of good things to give like a status immunity, halved ghost damage, salt cure, and recovery.

Cinderace and Dragonite cinderace gives dragonite swords dance and libero letting it turn into a normal type then spam espeed same for cinderance.

Great Tusk likes being able to pair with a pokemon to gain regen in ether regenerator or a recovery move.

Iron Hands and Hawlucha is a quite powerful combo since Booster Energy would proc unburden and iron hands could out speed dragapult or can do belly drum unburden stuff.

Weather setters since they share there weather setting abilities with something else and there utility moves so you could have Iron Moth pair with torkal to set sun and have eruption and rapid spin or torkal with Walking Wake to have a massive turn 1 Threat and get eruption.

Glimmora giving toxic/mortal spin, spiky sheld, Toxic Debris/Corrosion gilmmora has a lot to offer.

Tinkaton the king of UU with great utility in knock off thunder wave, etc, mold breaker and gigation hammer it can pair with Corviknight since corv works well with all that tinkaton gives it or can pair more offencely with Kingambit to get Supreme Overlord and give kingambit stab knock off and gigation hammer.

Questions

1. Is this to close to partners in crime?
2. Has anyone got any ideas for a name for this because I am quite bad at naming things

 

[prunyy]

Premise: Pokemon in slots 1&2, 3&4, and 5&6 share there current movesets and Ability with each other.

So a Rotom-Wash in slot 1 iron moth in slot 2 both have the abilities levitate and Quark Drive active at the same time and both have 8 moves to click.

Some possible bans: magnet pull, Good as Gold, magic bounce, ice scales,Unburden,Booster Energy,Walking Wake

Bans: All standard OU tier clauses, Contrary, Comatose, shed tail, Last Respects, Koraidon, Miraidon

increased viability:

levitate users like rotom and Hydreigon to give levitate to a ground weak pokemon to help there matchups vs ground types/pokemon with ground coverage.

Regenerator users like Toxapex Slowking, Amoonguss, etc, can combo with bulky attackers with no recovery like garchomp or pokemon like ting lu, or pivots to get a pivot move and give Regenerator to those pivots.

Toxapex can improve its av set with volt switch/u-turn, and Volt Absorb/levitate can be given to it from a team mate to help vs great tusk/electrics.

Walking Wake giving a team mate both Protosynthesis and Hydro Steam would be crazy for sun teams.

Volcarona is crazy giving quiver dance to a team mate and being able to get covrage to deal with some of its checks without requiring tera.

Garganacl has a lot of good things to give like a status immunity, halved ghost damage, salt cure, and recovery.

Cinderace and Dragonite cinderace gives dragonite swords dance and libero letting it turn into a normal type then spam espeed same for cinderance.

Great Tusk likes being able to pair with a pokemon to gain regen in ether regenerator or a recovery move.

Iron Hands and Hawlucha is a quite powerful combo since Booster Energy would proc unburden and iron hands could out speed dragapult or can do belly drum unburden stuff.

Weather setters since they share there weather setting abilities with something else and there utility moves so you could have Iron Moth pair with torkal to set sun and have eruption and rapid spin or torkal with Walking Wake to have a massive turn 1 Threat and get eruption.

Glimmora giving toxic/mortal spin, spiky sheld, Toxic Debris/Corrosion gilmmora has a lot to offer.

Tinkaton the king of UU with great utility in knock off thunder wave, etc, mold breaker and gigation hammer it can pair with Corviknight since corv works well with all that tinkaton gives it or can pair more offencely with Kingambit to get Supreme Overlord and give kingambit stab knock off and gigation hammer.

Questions

1. Is this to close to partners in crime?
2. Has anyone got any ideas for a name for this because I am quite bad at naming things.

Yeah, too close to partners in crime I feel. This is just kind of a singles version of this.

PiC has more freedom as well, it isn’t just limited to the slots.

 

[Cuddly]

Premise: Pokemon in slots 1&2, 3&4, and 5&6 share there current movesets and Ability with each other.

So a Rotom-Wash in slot 1 iron moth in slot 2 both have the abilities levitate and Quark Drive active at the same time and both have 8 moves to click.

Some possible bans: magnet pull, Good as Gold, magic bounce, ice scales,Unburden,Booster Energy,Walking Wake

Bans: All standard OU tier clauses, Contrary, Comatose, shed tail, Last Respects, Koraidon, Miraidon

increased viability:

levitate users like rotom and Hydreigon to give levitate to a ground weak pokemon to help there matchups vs ground types/pokemon with ground coverage.

Regenerator users like Toxapex Slowking, Amoonguss, etc, can combo with bulky attackers with no recovery like garchomp or pokemon like ting lu, or pivots to get a pivot move and give Regenerator to those pivots.

Toxapex can improve its av set with volt switch/u-turn, and Volt Absorb/levitate can be given to it from a team mate to help vs great tusk/electrics.

Walking Wake giving a team mate both Protosynthesis and Hydro Steam would be crazy for sun teams.

Volcarona is crazy giving quiver dance to a team mate and being able to get covrage to deal with some of its checks without requiring tera.

Garganacl has a lot of good things to give like a status immunity, halved ghost damage, salt cure, and recovery.

Cinderace and Dragonite cinderace gives dragonite swords dance and libero letting it turn into a normal type then spam espeed same for cinderance.

Great Tusk likes being able to pair with a pokemon to gain regen in ether regenerator or a recovery move.

Iron Hands and Hawlucha is a quite powerful combo since Booster Energy would proc unburden and iron hands could out speed dragapult or can do belly drum unburden stuff.

Weather setters since they share there weather setting abilities with something else and there utility moves so you could have Iron Moth pair with torkal to set sun and have eruption and rapid spin or torkal with Walking Wake to have a massive turn 1 Threat and get eruption.

Glimmora giving toxic/mortal spin, spiky sheld, Toxic Debris/Corrosion gilmmora has a lot to offer.

Tinkaton the king of UU with great utility in knock off thunder wave, etc, mold breaker and gigation hammer it can pair with Corviknight since corv works well with all that tinkaton gives it or can pair more offencely with Kingambit to get Supreme Overlord and give kingambit stab knock off and gigation hammer.

Questions

1. Is this to close to partners in crime?
2. Has anyone got any ideas for a name for this because I am quite bad at naming things

Yeah, too close to partners in crime I feel. This is just kind of a singles version of this.

PiC has more freedom as well, it isn’t just limited to the slots.

Same, but there is also another issue, which is compromise and strategy.
In PiC, a lot of gameplay was centered around what was on the field. Some strategies like Simple+Kommo-o or something had a massive weakness of being ruined if your partner was KO’d. Or the other weakness is your 2 pokemon don’t synergize well with their movesets, such as having 2 protects. Other OMs that let you have multiple abilities at once typically had some compromise as well, like having the ability be a held item or require to send out everything on your team.

In this meta, it seems like you can simply have say Torkoal+Roaring Moon at all times. Where in PiC you’d have to be cautious to keep Roaring Moon and Torkoal alive. Once you lost either, you lose their ability and moves too.

 

[Cuddly]

btw sorry for double posting here. Been a while since anyone replied here.

Weakness Insurance​

Metagame Premise: Pokemon receive Def/SpD bonuses for how many weaknesses they have, and Atk/SpA for how many types resists/immunities their STABs have.

Example:
Work in Progress. See Questions for the community.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Tera
As someone who likes Tera, it’s not hard to see how Tera conflicts with this Meta. Pokemon such as Breloom with have massive base stat boosts due to how many weaknesses they inherently have, and then can simply Tera to a typing with far less weaknesses.


Speaking of which, Breloom is possible one of the strongest Pokemon for this Metagame. Being weak to 6 types, one of which is x4, Breloom would get a massive defensive boost. And potentially a high offensive boost depending how we’ll handle offensive base stat boosts. All on a Pokemon with Spore, Poison Heal, and Technician.


Dragonite to an extent finds itself in a similar scenario to Breloom, where its defenses will be sky high and potentially its offensive stats too as Dragon/Flying is poor offensively. Having Multiscale too is a huge factor as it makes Dragonite much harder to kill and stacks well with bunch of defense bonuses.

Questions for the community:
1. How much of a bonus should Pokemon receive for each weakness? Additionally, should double weaknesses give more of a stat boost to the defensive stats? I’d say +10 and +20 work fine.
2. On the offensive side, I’m a bit more puzzled on how this should be handled. Mono types, such as Clefable, are pretty straight forward. Fairy is resisted by Fire, Poison, and Steel, so naturally Clefable would get say +30 to Atk/SpA. Additionally, you can look at say Pikachu, which is resisted by Dragon/Electric/Grass and can’t hit Ground, so it should get +30 from resistances, and +10 or +20 from the immunity. However dual types become a little more complicated. Breloom (again) is a great example as Grass/Fight has 3 overlapping resistances, plenty resistances for Grass that Fighting is neutral or Super Effective against and vice versa, and while Fighting can’t hit Ghost, Grass can hit Ghost. There are several possibilities to tackle this issue and I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Right now, I think the best solution would be:
- treat overlapping resistances as +10 each (for Breloom, Bug, Flying, and Poison count as +10)
- resistances/immunities for one type that is covered super effectively by the other is +0 (for Breloom, since Grass is resisted by Steel but Fighting is Super Effective against Steel, it’d be +0. For something like Annihilape, it would also be +0 since Fighting covers for Ghost’s inability to hit Normal)
This solution is a bit messy, but it’s the closest to parity I could think of.

 

[chartung17]

btw sorry for double posting here. Been a while since anyone replied here.

Weakness Insurance​

Metagame Premise: Pokemon receive Def/SpD bonuses for how many weaknesses they have, and Atk/SpA for how many types resists/immunities their STABs have.

Example:
Work in Progress. See Questions for the community.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Tera
As someone who likes Tera, it’s not hard to see how Tera conflicts with this Meta. Pokemon such as Breloom with have massive base stat boosts due to how many weaknesses they inherently have, and then can simply Tera to a typing with far less weaknesses.


Speaking of which, Breloom is possible one of the strongest Pokemon for this Metagame. Being weak to 6 types, one of which is x4, Breloom would get a massive defensive boost. And potentially a high offensive boost depending how we’ll handle offensive base stat boosts. All on a Pokemon with Spore, Poison Heal, and Technician.


Dragonite to an extent finds itself in a similar scenario to Breloom, where its defenses will be sky high and potentially its offensive stats too as Dragon/Flying is poor offensively. Having Multiscale too is a huge factor as it makes Dragonite much harder to kill and stacks well with bunch of defense bonuses.

Questions for the community:
1. How much of a bonus should Pokemon receive for each weakness? Additionally, should double weaknesses give more of a stat boost to the defensive stats? I’d say +10 and +20 work fine.
2. On the offensive side, I’m a bit more puzzled on how this should be handled. Mono types, such as Clefable, are pretty straight forward. Fairy is resisted by Fire, Poison, and Steel, so naturally Clefable would get say +30 to Atk/SpA. Additionally, you can look at say Pikachu, which is resisted by Dragon/Electric/Grass and can’t hit Ground, so it should get +30 from resistances, and +10 or +20 from the immunity. However dual types become a little more complicated. Breloom (again) is a great example as Grass/Fight has 3 overlapping resistances, plenty resistances for Grass that Fighting is neutral or Super Effective against and vice versa, and while Fighting can’t hit Ghost, Grass can hit Ghost. There are several possibilities to tackle this issue and I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Right now, I think the best solution would be:
- treat overlapping resistances as +10 each (for Breloom, Bug, Flying, and Poison count as +10)
- resistances/immunities for one type that is covered super effectively by the other is +0 (for Breloom, since Grass is resisted by Steel but Fighting is Super Effective against Steel, it’d be +0. For something like Annihilape, it would also be +0 since Fighting covers for Ghost’s inability to hit Normal)
This solution is a bit messy, but it’s the closest to parity I could think of.

Assuming +10 Def/SpD for each weakness (+20 for each double weakness) and +10 Atk/SpA for each type that is resistant to at least one STAB and not weak to the other (+20 for an immunity that's not weak to the other STAB, the maximum possible bonuses appear to be +100 to offenses and +80 to defenses.

Some of the biggest winners:
ties with other Dark/Grass types for the largest total boost (+100 to offenses and +70 to defenses). It now has 210 Atk, along with 123 speed and Protean.
only gets +40 to defenses (which is still significant given its high HP), but it also gets +100 to offenses, giving it the highest Atk in the game at 240.

One way to handle tera (and Protean) would be to have the bonuses change when your type changes.

 

[DaDucIsDaKey]

btw sorry for double posting here. Been a while since anyone replied here.
Weakness Insurance

Metagame Premise: Pokemon receive Def/SpD bonuses for how many weaknesses they have, and Atk/SpA for how many types resists/immunities their STABs have.

Example:
Work in Progress. See Questions for the community.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Tera
As someone who likes Tera, it’s not hard to see how Tera conflicts with this Meta. Pokemon such as Breloom with have massive base stat boosts due to how many weaknesses they inherently have, and then can simply Tera to a typing with far less weaknesses.


Speaking of which, Breloom is possible one of the strongest Pokemon for this Metagame. Being weak to 6 types, one of which is x4, Breloom would get a massive defensive boost. And potentially a high offensive boost depending how we’ll handle offensive base stat boosts. All on a Pokemon with Spore, Poison Heal, and Technician.


Dragonite to an extent finds itself in a similar scenario to Breloom, where its defenses will be sky high and potentially its offensive stats too as Dragon/Flying is poor offensively. Having Multiscale too is a huge factor as it makes Dragonite much harder to kill and stacks well with bunch of defense bonuses.

Questions for the community:
1. How much of a bonus should Pokemon receive for each weakness? Additionally, should double weaknesses give more of a stat boost to the defensive stats? I’d say +10 and +20 work fine.
2. On the offensive side, I’m a bit more puzzled on how this should be handled. Mono types, such as Clefable, are pretty straight forward. Fairy is resisted by Fire, Poison, and Steel, so naturally Clefable would get say +30 to Atk/SpA. Additionally, you can look at say Pikachu, which is resisted by Dragon/Electric/Grass and can’t hit Ground, so it should get +30 from resistances, and +10 or +20 from the immunity. However dual types become a little more complicated. Breloom (again) is a great example as Grass/Fight has 3 overlapping resistances, plenty resistances for Grass that Fighting is neutral or Super Effective against and vice versa, and while Fighting can’t hit Ghost, Grass can hit Ghost. There are several possibilities to tackle this issue and I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Right now, I think the best solution would be:
- treat overlapping resistances as +10 each (for Breloom, Bug, Flying, and Poison count as +10)
- resistances/immunities for one type that is covered super effectively by the other is +0 (for Breloom, since Grass is resisted by Steel but Fighting is Super Effective against Steel, it’d be +0. For something like Annihilape, it would also be +0 since Fighting covers for Ghost’s inability to hit Normal)
This solution is a bit messy, but it’s the closest to parity I could think of.

Protean/Tera seem... interesting. It would be interesting to see them in play, especially if they change your stats. Switching into terrible types might be somewhat normal, because bonus defense is good. On the other hand, as the stab of something changes, offense is even harder to figure out. Tera offensively gives extra stab, so if I interpret this correctly, it might completely change some pokemon.

I think that the buff give should be small, like 5-10, so that mono-types aren't inherently disadvantaged as much.
For the second question, I think that it should be 1.5 or 2x for overlapping resists (1.5 normally, 2 if one or both is immune?), because there is no stab that counters that type, and 1x for when one is resisted and the other one is neutral, with no buff for when both are neutral or one is supereffective. (alternatively maybe 1.5 for imm, 1 for res, 0.5 for half-res, 0 for neutral+)

 

[DosDogs]

btw sorry for double posting here. Been a while since anyone replied here.

Weakness Insurance​

Metagame Premise: Pokemon receive Def/SpD bonuses for how many weaknesses they have, and Atk/SpA for how many types resists/immunities their STABs have.

Example:
Work in Progress. See Questions for the community.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Tera
As someone who likes Tera, it’s not hard to see how Tera conflicts with this Meta. Pokemon such as Breloom with have massive base stat boosts due to how many weaknesses they inherently have, and then can simply Tera to a typing with far less weaknesses.


Speaking of which, Breloom is possible one of the strongest Pokemon for this Metagame. Being weak to 6 types, one of which is x4, Breloom would get a massive defensive boost. And potentially a high offensive boost depending how we’ll handle offensive base stat boosts. All on a Pokemon with Spore, Poison Heal, and Technician.


Dragonite to an extent finds itself in a similar scenario to Breloom, where its defenses will be sky high and potentially its offensive stats too as Dragon/Flying is poor offensively. Having Multiscale too is a huge factor as it makes Dragonite much harder to kill and stacks well with bunch of defense bonuses.

Questions for the community:
1. How much of a bonus should Pokemon receive for each weakness? Additionally, should double weaknesses give more of a stat boost to the defensive stats? I’d say +10 and +20 work fine.
2. On the offensive side, I’m a bit more puzzled on how this should be handled. Mono types, such as Clefable, are pretty straight forward. Fairy is resisted by Fire, Poison, and Steel, so naturally Clefable would get say +30 to Atk/SpA. Additionally, you can look at say Pikachu, which is resisted by Dragon/Electric/Grass and can’t hit Ground, so it should get +30 from resistances, and +10 or +20 from the immunity. However dual types become a little more complicated. Breloom (again) is a great example as Grass/Fight has 3 overlapping resistances, plenty resistances for Grass that Fighting is neutral or Super Effective against and vice versa, and while Fighting can’t hit Ghost, Grass can hit Ghost. There are several possibilities to tackle this issue and I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Right now, I think the best solution would be:
- treat overlapping resistances as +10 each (for Breloom, Bug, Flying, and Poison count as +10)
- resistances/immunities for one type that is covered super effectively by the other is +0 (for Breloom, since Grass is resisted by Steel but Fighting is Super Effective against Steel, it’d be +0. For something like Annihilape, it would also be +0 since Fighting covers for Ghost’s inability to hit Normal)
This solution is a bit messy, but it’s the closest to parity I could think of.

Imo for duel STAB use the type that gives the lowest when calcing, like 1 STAB is neutral its +0, 1 STAB is resisted the other is 2x resisted then its +10. I think immunity should be treated as it is in inverse, as a normal resist. Lastly I agree with a +10 base, and +20 for double weakness.

 

[Lectrys]

btw sorry for double posting here. Been a while since anyone replied here.

Weakness Insurance​

Metagame Premise: Pokemon receive Def/SpD bonuses for how many weaknesses they have, and Atk/SpA for how many types resists/immunities their STABs have.

Example:
Work in Progress. See Questions for the community.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Tera
As someone who likes Tera, it’s not hard to see how Tera conflicts with this Meta. Pokemon such as Breloom with have massive base stat boosts due to how many weaknesses they inherently have, and then can simply Tera to a typing with far less weaknesses.


Speaking of which, Breloom is possible one of the strongest Pokemon for this Metagame. Being weak to 6 types, one of which is x4, Breloom would get a massive defensive boost. And potentially a high offensive boost depending how we’ll handle offensive base stat boosts. All on a Pokemon with Spore, Poison Heal, and Technician.


Dragonite to an extent finds itself in a similar scenario to Breloom, where its defenses will be sky high and potentially its offensive stats too as Dragon/Flying is poor offensively. Having Multiscale too is a huge factor as it makes Dragonite much harder to kill and stacks well with bunch of defense bonuses.

Questions for the community:
1. How much of a bonus should Pokemon receive for each weakness? Additionally, should double weaknesses give more of a stat boost to the defensive stats? I’d say +10 and +20 work fine.
2. On the offensive side, I’m a bit more puzzled on how this should be handled. Mono types, such as Clefable, are pretty straight forward. Fairy is resisted by Fire, Poison, and Steel, so naturally Clefable would get say +30 to Atk/SpA. Additionally, you can look at say Pikachu, which is resisted by Dragon/Electric/Grass and can’t hit Ground, so it should get +30 from resistances, and +10 or +20 from the immunity. However dual types become a little more complicated. Breloom (again) is a great example as Grass/Fight has 3 overlapping resistances, plenty resistances for Grass that Fighting is neutral or Super Effective against and vice versa, and while Fighting can’t hit Ghost, Grass can hit Ghost. There are several possibilities to tackle this issue and I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Right now, I think the best solution would be:
- treat overlapping resistances as +10 each (for Breloom, Bug, Flying, and Poison count as +10)
- resistances/immunities for one type that is covered super effectively by the other is +0 (for Breloom, since Grass is resisted by Steel but Fighting is Super Effective against Steel, it’d be +0. For something like Annihilape, it would also be +0 since Fighting covers for Ghost’s inability to hit Normal)
This solution is a bit messy, but it’s the closest to parity I could think of.

I was initially thinking that, offensively, only overlapping resistances and/or immunities should grant boosts, but then not only do legendary offensive type combos like Electric/Ice get completely shafted, so do somewhat bunk ones like Water/Poison. Intuitively, I would think that Water/Poison would get more offensive boosts than Electric/Ice.

I'm personally more comfortable with this offensive boost system - the +10 for 2x weakness and +20 for 4x weakness system looks fine (note that "All STABs" covers mono-STAB):

• All STABs resisted: +10
• All STABs immune: +20
• One STAB resisted, other neutral: +5
• One STAB immune, other neutral: +10
• One STAB immune, other resisted: +15
• One STAB resisted/immune, other weak: +0

If we go with chartung17's offensive boost system instead, these look like mons to offensively watch out for:


Wow, does Bug/Steel's coverage suck. Scizor gets +80 in both offences and a really meaty Bullet Punch and U-turn. To compensate, Scizor gets only +20 in both defences.


oh shoot we gave Kingambit more power
Kingambit gets +60 in both offences, as if Sucker Punch with Supreme Overlord boosts wasn't already doing enough. Kingambit's only getting +40 in both defences, at least.


I sense a pattern with offensive Steel-types: Steel being resisted by 4 types already makes it not too shabby at racking up offensive boosts, and then Gholdengo needs to make Normal be immune to its Ghost STAB on top of that. Gholdengo gets +70 in both offences (and +40 in both defences), so it might be a good time to use the Scarfer.


Bug is so good at racking up offensive boosts that Fire isn't enough to keep those boosts down, so Volcarona gets +90 in both offences (and +40 in both defences). Scary moth.


You'd think Fairy/Fighting would be good offensive coverage, but Iron Valiant actually gets +80 in both offences! ...And +50 in both defences.

 

[Cuddly]

Thank you guys.

So from what I'm seeing, here is a chart for how Offensive boosts would work.

Offensive Stat boost chart

Off V / Def >​

Normal​

Fire​

Water​

Electric​

Grass​

Ice​

Fighting​

Poison​

Ground​

Flying​

Psychic​

Bug​

Rock​

Ghost​

Dragon​

Dark​

Steel​

Fairy​

Normal​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

+10​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

Fire​

-​

+5​

+5​

-​

=0​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

+5​

-​

=0​

-​

Water​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

Electric​

-​

-​

=0​

+5​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

+10​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

Grass​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

+5​

=0​

+5​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

+5​

-​

Ice​

-​

+5​

+5​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

-​

=0​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

Fighting​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

+5​

+5​

+5​

=0​

+10​

-​

=0​

=0​

+5​

Poison​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

+5​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

+5​

-​

-​

+10​

=0​

Ground​

-​

=0​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+10​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

Flying​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

Psychic​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

=0​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

-​

+10​

+5​

-​

Bug​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

+5​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

=0​

+5​

+5​

Rock​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

+5​

=0​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

Ghost​

+10​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

Dragon​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

+10​

Dark​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

+5​

-​

+5​

Steel​

-​

+5​

+5​

+5​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

-​

-​

-​

+5​

=0​

Fairy​

-​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

+5​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

-​

=0​

=0​

+5​

-​

If you wanted to check how much Atk/SpA of a Pokemon, you'd take both its typings, first add the matching columns, then add the columns in total. If a column has =0, that column is always set to 0. Mono type Pokemon counting as double.

Fighting	=0	-	-	-	-	=0	-	+5	-	+5	+5	+5	=0	+10	-	=0	=0	+5
Ghost	+10	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	=0	-	-	=0	-	+5	-	-
Sum	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	+5	0	+5	0	+5	0	0	0	0	0	+5	+20

As a Fighting/Ghost type, Annihilape would get +20 Atk/SpA. Many of the things that resist or are immune to Ghost are weak to Fighting, so in the summation it would count as +0.

Electric	-	-	=0	+5	+5	-	-	-	+10	=0	-	-	-	-	+5	-	-	-
Electric	-	-	=0	+5	+5	-	-	-	+10	=0	-	-	-	-	+5	-	-	-
Sum	0	0	0	+10	+10	-	-	-	+20	0	0	0	0	0	+10	-	-	-	+50

As a mono Electric type, you just double the values, treating Pikachu like a Electric/Electric type if you will.

How does everyone feel about this?

Observations:

This thing becomes monstrous. In this Meta, Iron Leaves gets one of the highest BSTs in the game. Defensively it gets +80 in Def/SpD. Offensively it gets +50 Atk/SpA. With that, it receives a 90/180/168/120/188/104, having a BST of 850.

For comparison, has +60 Def/SpD and +45 Atk/SpA. Giving it 100/180/175/130/160/135 and a BST of 880, which is also pretty high considering gets +35 Atk/SpA and +40 Def/SpD


A lot of current Ubers surprisingly do not have that high of stats, relative to other Pokemon in the Metagame. Some of these Pokemon definitely could be unbanned, especially if Tera is banned. A lot more things can break past Annihilape when it can't Tera and not keeping up with other Pokemon. Espathra is very similar, having to rely on Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball to break past Dark or Steel types, as well as being left behind stat wise too.


Scyther gets +45 in Atk/SpA and +60 to Def/SpD, giving it 70/155/140/100/140/105 and a BST of 710. This makes Scyther not only stronger than its own evolutions (in terms of BST), but makes it one of the most buffed Pokemon in the Metagame. It's also one of the strongest NU Pokemon, being significantly stronger than Charizard.


Likewise in the PU tier, you have massive glow ups from Pokemon like Gogoat, Lilligant, and Leafeon receiving massive +70 offenses and +50 defenses. Grass in general gets massively buffed this Meta because it has several weaknesses (most in the game) and are resisted by lot of types (tied with bug and fighting in terms of bonuses for highest amount if you're mono type)


Because of Grass's massive boost and Arceus's vanilla stats, Arceus Grass will have the highest BST in this meta when released, having 120/190/170/190/170/120 and a BST of 960 (which is in fact still less than regular Eternamax Eternatus (in case you were wondering Eternamax's new BST is 1205)).


Oh btw, Ting-lu virtually has the same bulk as current Blissey with its ability.
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (145 SpD) Blissey: 70-83 (9.8 - 11.6%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin (140 SpD) Ting-Lu: 54-64 (10.5 - 12.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
It effectively has 155/185/203 thanks to Vessel of Ruin in this Meta. 145 Atk as well.

 

[Blizihguh]

I'm personally more comfortable with this offensive boost system - the +10 for 2x weakness and +20 for 4x weakness system looks fine (note that "All STABs" covers mono-STAB):

• All STABs resisted: +10
• All STABs immune: +20
• One STAB resisted, other neutral: +5
• One STAB immune, other neutral: +10
• One STAB immune, other resisted: +15
• One STAB resisted/immune, other weak: +0

imo this is a bit over-complicated. It could probably work, presumably there would be a command a la /mnm or /ce, and you can kind of eyeball it anyway (I don't need to do the math to figure out that scizor is getting buffed here). But I don't think it's ideal and I'm not sure what problem it's solving really.

Meta seems neat btw. I think this would encourage a pretty different approach to defensive synergy -- something like Wo-Chien + Coalossal would be hilariously goofy normally but could maybe work here. Normally defensive mons with lots of weaknesses suck, but if you're tanking neutral hits like a pro and you have a hard switch-in for the types you're weak to, it probably works out better.

Surprised nobody's brought up Lokix yet, Tinted Lens is really funny in this meta and if I did my math right it's getting +70 Atk. I guess 172 Atk isn't the strongest thing in the world in this meta but it's gotta be pretty good right? Tinted Lens U-Turn goes brrr and the format doesn't give anything a speed boost so 92 spe + scarf is solid

 

[Cuddly]

imo this is a bit over-complicated. It could probably work, presumably there would be a command a la /mnm or /ce, and you can kind of eyeball it anyway (I don't need to do the math to figure out that scizor is getting buffed here). But I don't think it's ideal and I'm not sure what problem it's solving really.

Meta seems neat btw. I think this would encourage a pretty different approach to defensive synergy -- something like Wo-Chien + Coalossal would be hilariously goofy normally but could maybe work here. Normally defensive mons with lots of weaknesses suck, but if you're tanking neutral hits like a pro and you have a hard switch-in for the types you're weak to, it probably works out better.

Surprised nobody's brought up Lokix yet, Tinted Lens is really funny in this meta and if I did my math right it's getting +70 Atk. I guess 172 Atk isn't the strongest thing in the world in this meta but it's gotta be pretty good right? Tinted Lens U-Turn goes brrr and the format doesn't give anything a speed boost so 92 spe + scarf is solid

Looking at Lokix, its offensive boosts should be +40.
How offense is handled is a bit tricky.
If you just do “/coverage [type], [type]” on Showdown, you’ll often see the total resists become equal to extremely low numbers. Like Dragonite would only get Steel as types that resist both STABs. This is simplier, but definitely is not an accurate representation/parity of STABs and would heavily favor defense over offense.
I also made a chart that can help players find out how much their Pokemon’s offenses increase, which hopefully helps.
If you have suggestions on how offensive bonus should be done, feel free to share it as it’ll help a ton. Thank you.

 

[DaDucIsDaKey]

This meta seems very interesting, because all of the good pokemon in this meta can't rely on STAB. This means that the offensive boosts are weaker than they seem, by virtue of STAB being less certain.

I really want this meta to have tera, but it seems very hard to balance offensively, as pokemon will sometimes be completely changed by tera.

 

[Lectrys]

This meta seems very interesting, because all of the good pokemon in this meta can't rely on STAB. This means that the offensive boosts are weaker than they seem, by virtue of STAB being less certain.

I really want this meta to have tera, but it seems very hard to balance offensively, as pokemon will sometimes be completely changed by tera.

Regarding Weakness Insurance still, I think the best offensive type in this meta is actually Fighting. It's still a great offensive type coverage-wise, even though 1 type is immune to it and 5 types resist it. It kinda compensates by only being weak to 3 types. Fighting getting Grass- and Bug-levels of offensive bonuses is part of why some OU rich get richer in Weakness Insurance, such as Iron Valiant and Breloom.

So the Fighting types can still rely on their Fighting STAB to get things done (except possibly for Special Only Iron Valiant).

On another note, I'm on board with Protean and Libero getting their bonuses completely changed out to match their typing, and Terastallization having its defensive bonuses completely changed out to match their new typing makes sense, but I'm actually thinking that Terastallization's offensive bonuses should be treated as if the Pokemon has 3 STABs (e.g. Tera Grass Volcarona is now treated as being a Grass-type defensive boost-wise and a Bug/Fire/Grass-type offensive boost-wise). Tera would lead to interesting benefit-cost decisions in the teambuilder (unless you're Tera Grass Volcarona or Tera Bug Ceruledge).

 

[Cuddly]

Honestly I think the abilities/moves that change your/opponent's types are fine and don't need to change your stats. Things like Reflect Type are too niche and Protean/Libero are exclusive to only a handful of Pokemon. Having a Dynamic stat changing system for regular type changing mechanics is unnecessary work for something that isn't massive. It would also be too complicated to play with/against. Try using or fighting Meowscarada when its stats are constantly changing with 5 variations of different stats.

As for Tera, I feel similarly to things like Protean and Reflect type, and even more so. You could Terastallize into a Grass type to get all those defensive bonuses. And if that Pokemon was Slither Wing or Heracross, it would get +85 in Atk/SpA. You also have the same issue of overcomplicating a mechanic for no real benefit. Needing to do some table readings and math involving if/else statements to know what Atk/SpA your Pokemon has is already pushing it. Needing to do them during battle would definitely get this meta rejected.
Even changing the stats defensively is also an issue. As Terastallizing is now far more linear if the bonuses match the Tera. If your Tera has less weaknesses than your current type, like Tera Electric Iron Leaves, there is basically no point in Terastallizing ever. You go from +80 Defenses down to just +10. On the flip side, Pokemon that have good types like Corviknight can Tera Grass giving it +50 Defenses and +50 Offenses (based on Grass/Flying/Steel STAB). You'd only want a select few Tera Types, have only a select few Pokemon to use them, and it's more "press button to get massive power boost". It also just circles back to point of the Meta. Pokemon with worse typings get the spotlight is the premise of this Meta. Tera entirely goes against the premise of the Metagame as a whole and any fix just makes things worse.

 

[prunyy]

Environment Locked

Premise: After turn 5, all weather, terrain, hazards, screens, rooms, gravity, (and anything I’m to dumb to miss) will be locked and unchangable.

Strategy:
Manual weather and terrain sound legit on leads. Abilities that set it will be nice, but slower pokemon that can set these stuff have an advantage. They can set it after the ability activates and have it locked in.

Sun and Electric Terrain are really good because of Protosynthesis and Quark Drive respectively. Having them locked in is greatly in your favor if you have these pokemon on your team.

Hazards will be an absolute nightmare, but it is your job to get rid of them ASAP. Having them locked in means that your opponent can kill you a lot easier.

Screens are a nice counter to the weather and terrain boosting specific move types. You don’t even need Light Clay and you can hold something else like Leftovers.

Trick Room teams are now crazy than ever. Step 1) Set Trick Room, Step 2) Stonks

Questions for the Community:

Is this even conceptually balanced?

Would this even be fun or endless pain and suffering? Arguments can be made that it would be fun and a pain in the ass.

 

[Cuddly]

Environment Locked

Premise: After turn 5, all weather, terrain, hazards, screens, rooms, gravity, (and anything I’m to dumb to miss) will be locked and unchangable.

Strategy:
Manual weather and terrain sound legit on leads. Abilities that set it will be nice, but slower pokemon that can set these stuff have an advantage. They can set it after the ability activates and have it locked in.

Sun and Electric Terrain are really good because of Protosynthesis and Quark Drive respectively. Having them locked in is greatly in your favor if you have these pokemon on your team.

Hazards will be an absolute nightmare, but it is your job to get rid of them ASAP. Having them locked in means that your opponent can kill you a lot easier.

Screens are a nice counter to the weather and terrain boosting specific move types. You don’t even need Light Clay and you can hold something else like Leftovers.

Trick Room teams are now crazy than ever. Step 1) Set Trick Room, Step 2) Stonks

Questions for the Community:

Is this even conceptually balanced?

Would this even be fun or endless pain and suffering? Arguments can be made that it would be fun and a pain in the ass.

I feel like this Metagame idea already exists, but I can't put my finger on what it was.

 

[prunyy]

I feel like this Metagame idea already exists, but I can't put my finger on what it was.

I was looking in the Thread Cryonics and found Lockdown, an old retired USUM OM. It was closed due to "lack of interest."

 

[April]

Environment Locked

Premise: After turn 5, all weather, terrain, hazards, screens, rooms, gravity, (and anything I’m to dumb to miss) will be locked and unchangable.

Strategy:
Manual weather and terrain sound legit on leads. Abilities that set it will be nice, but slower pokemon that can set these stuff have an advantage. They can set it after the ability activates and have it locked in.

Sun and Electric Terrain are really good because of Protosynthesis and Quark Drive respectively. Having them locked in is greatly in your favor if you have these pokemon on your team.

Hazards will be an absolute nightmare, but it is your job to get rid of them ASAP. Having them locked in means that your opponent can kill you a lot easier.

Screens are a nice counter to the weather and terrain boosting specific move types. You don’t even need Light Clay and you can hold something else like Leftovers.

Trick Room teams are now crazy than ever. Step 1) Set Trick Room, Step 2) Stonks

Questions for the Community:

Is this even conceptually balanced?

Would this even be fun or endless pain and suffering? Arguments can be made that it would be fun and a pain in the ass.

I think the only real problem with this is that it's really limiting on what teams you can use. Any team that doesn't directly and hugely benefit from permanent field conditions is borderline unviable, now. You aren't just forced into Electric Terrain or Weather like some would think, and I can definitely see unique playstyles like Gravity, but in general options seem pretty limited. This isn't even getting into the balance issues at hand.

Also, exactly what counts as a lockable condition is too vague for this to work in a modern scene, I think. Does Roost taking away your Flying type count? Does Taunt count, or Imprison? If a Pokemon were to use Dig, would it be invulnerable to any move except EQ, Magnitude and Fissure? How do these things change when you switch out? It's not cut and dry, and definitely up to interpretation, which I think would make it a chore to both code and play.