Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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:sv/Slowbro:
Perhaps one of the biggest victims of the generation shift (at least in an OU context): the loss of Scald and Teleport and recovery nerf has reduced Slowbro from a key defensive Pokemon in the tier to a niche pick at best, and Slowking is now considered the superior option specifically because it still has a pivot move. But a niche pick isn't the same as bad; while Slowbro's usefulness is recognized to an extent, I feel Bro is currently underexplored in its niche. After some testing on ladder, I would like to lay out a more in-depth look at Bro for those looking to still make the most of it.

What does Slowbro do?
Like last gen, a key part of what the Slowtwins do is Future Sight, which allows one to disrupt the enemy position, crucially forcing tier defining mons like Great Tusk and Valiant to play far more carefully. Slowking's access to Chilly Reception means its Future Sight is inherently more annoying to deal with, but Slowbro does have one tool that makes it not totally outclassed: Body Press. Dark types, usually able to switch into Future Sight with impunity, must risk taking heavy damage from Body Press whenever they switch into Slowbro, whereas Slowking can potentially be put in a bad position if the Dark type switches in as the FS is lined up. Slowbro's naturally good physical bulk means it can often live a Dark type hit easily with Colbur Berry, allowing it to reliably damage Dark types like Moon, Kingambit and Meowscarada; in a pinch, Slowbro is guaranteed to survive a Flower Trick from even Band Meowscarada at full before Tera*. Most importantly, that physical bulk allows it to consistently check the omnipresent Great Tusk. Slack Off complements this bulk nicely, allowing Bro to stay healthy. That stuff is already known and present in the sample set atm; here is where I think there are options to be explored.

*252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro on a critical hit: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Fourth Move
Looking at the sample set on SmogDex, STAB Surf is listed as the fourth move; now Surf is not bad, as it does allow you to hit Skeledirge and Volcarona, and most crucially lets you more immediately threaten Tusk and Glimmora without activating Toxic Debris. But I also don't think Surf is mandatory like the other three moves are. In practice, I've found that Slowbro rarely clicks its fourth move; in most scenarios, one of the three staples simply gets you more out of the turn. While Surf isn't a bad option, it's mainly useful for those four, otherwise suffering from the prominence of natural Water resists and the popularity of Tera Water. And save for Tusk, Slowbro is somewhat limited against those four.
  • :Skeledirge: : Naturally slams Bro with Ghost STAB, so you can't really stay in.
  • :Volcarona: : Auto-f*cks Bro if it isn't mono-attack, can easily boost in its face and heal up with Morning Sun. Slowbro is largely praying for a crit to do serious damage with Surf and doesn't even take Fiery Dance that well once Volc is boosted.
  • :Glimmora: : Role means it doesn't care about going down fast. Even if it can't use Toxic Debris, it can still get multiple hazards and Mortal Spin poison Bro so it can't check what it's supposed to.
  • :Ting-Lu: : Body Press literally does more.
Surf has its benefits, but definitely comes with some caveats. As such, here are some options I think can be equally valuable for Slowbro.
Iron Defense
  • The whole reason to use Slowbro over Slowking is Body Press, so why not try to squeeze as much damage out of Press as possible? But more practically: remember how I mentioned Slowbro could heavily damage Dark types with Body Press? Well, +2 allows it to actually OHKO Moon and Gambit, as well as incoming Meowscarada. ID obviously allows Slowbro to become a great stop gap for physical attackers, as at +2 it can even shrug off attacks from Baxcalibur and Tera Water Floatzel. In practice, I find its main benefit is actually in forcing these attackers out rather than directly bodying them. Giving up a third attack can have its downsides, most obviously versus Gholdengo and Unaware Clodsire, but we'll get more into that when I talk about Slowbro's team.
    • Good for- :Dragonite: :Baxcalibur: :Floatzel:
Flamethrower
  • Now, Future Sight + Body Press is generally good, but there are a few Pokemon that naturally resist both parts of the combo. Gholdengo is by far the most obvious stopgap, easily switching in and threatening Slowbro out with its STAB Shadow Ball; Balloon Gholdengo obviously needs to be more careful but non-Balloon isn't too concerned. This is where the next option comes in: Flamethrower. Flamethrower means that Gholdengo can no longer come in for free, 2HKOing non-defensive variants with one round of FS chip. Flame also allows it to hit the annoying Corviknight while ensuring Bro can still hit Protean Meow super-effectively. The popularity of Tera Water does impede it a bit, and you need to be more careful around Bax, but the ability to prevent free Gholdengo is important enough to make it a serious option.
    • Good for- :Gholdengo: :Corviknight: :Meowscarada:
Other Options
  • Ice Beam: If you're really worried about Dragonite and Tera Dragon Baxcalibur, and lets you more directly threaten Tusk; also knocks Dragapult into FS range. Doesn't help much with your other match-ups though.
  • Shadow Ball: My original idea for hitting Gholdengo since it also hits Dragapult and Skeledirge, but it proved largely redundant with my choice of partners. Prominence of Dark types also discourages you from using it.
  • Thunder Wave: More support capabilities for Bro, can be handy for punishing careless switches from Moon or Meow. Gives you an even worse match-up versus Gholdengo and Garganacl doesn't help.

Tera Type
Tera also feels like a bit of a placeholder at the moment, so here is the serious types I think are worth considering.
Tera Fairy
  • Okay, this one is legit. Flipping the Dark match-up is generally the most important aspect of Slowbro's Tera Type, and its ability to shut down Tera Dragon Glaive Rush and flip the U-turn weakness is greatly appreciated. But in terms of its role of countering Dark types, Fairy does have one big flaw: it doesn't actually improve your match-up versus Kingambit. Look, top players may be doing fancy things with Low Kick and Tera Blast in tourneys, but on ladder, at least up to 1500, every King is running Iron Head. You can't take Iron Head, Gambit user can easily play around you.
    • Good for- :Baxcalibur: :Roaring Moon:
Tera Fighting
  • You know how neutral Body Press doesn't OHKO the resident Dark types? Turns out STAB is the other way you can score those important KOs, demolishing Gambit and Meow while still scoring the OHKO on Moon 75% of the time. Fighting provides the same U-turn resist, but also makes you take less from Stealth Rock to help gain more from Regenerator.
    • Good for- :Kingambit: :Roaring Moon:
Tera Dark
  • Want your Slowbro also serve as an emergency answer to Gholdengo? Tera Dark drops the U-turn flip for a Ghost resistance, allowing you to potentially lure Gholdengo or Dragapult. As such, you want to be more selective with picking this type; I'd personally only recommend it on Flamethrower or Ice Beam variants.
    • Good for- :Gholdengo: :Dragapult:
Tera Steel
  • Not tested, but if you go for one Tera Type that doesn't resist Dark, I'd recommend Steel. Can't be poisoned by Clod or Glimmora (blocks Mortal Spin), walls Amoonguss post-Spore, blanks Flower Trick, keeps Iron Head resist for Gambit and helps check stuff like Dragonite, non-EQ Moon and Valiant (more likely to run Psyshock than Aura Sphere/Focus Blast); also Rocks resist for extra Regen shenanigans. The grab bag of benefits is helpful, but it does mean you can't check Tusk anymore. I would mainly recommend on Iron Defense variants.
    • Good for- :Meowscarada: :Dragonite:

Where to Use It
Slowbro's inability to pivot out ala SwSh means that Slowbro is generally best on bulky offense teams, with several teammates which can take hits on switch-in. Since Slowbro already gives you a physical tank, you want to pair it with at least one specially bulky mon like Clodsire or Roaring Moon, and the positioning caused by FS means a Slowbro team can benefit from other pivots causing further confusion. You should also pair it with a Ground type to catch Electric moves and a Fighting type, which most reap the benefits of Future Sight. To give more specifics:
  • :Clodsire: Clodsire is a great Pokemon for filling out the team's defensive backbone, providing that Electric immunity and SpD partner for Bro alongside being the team's hazard setter. Unaware helps it blank Volcarona and Skeledirge while threatening them out with Toxic and EQ, basically blanking those matchups that you'd run SurfBro for.
  • :Ting-Lu: Ting-Lu can also serve as special wall + Electric blocker, and provides phasing, more mixed bulk and a Dark resist. I just prefer my walls having non-Rest recovery, not to mention Lu does stack Grass and U-turn weaknesses.
  • :Great Tusk: Huh, Slowbro appreciates a Ground type companion and benefits Fighting types? Wonder who would benefit the most from that. Yes, on top of being one of Bro's best matchups, Great Tusk is a great partner, providing KnockSpin support and a Dark resist for the team. Tusk likes FS potentially removing Amoonguss or Valiant and popping Gholdengo's Balloon, with offensive sets probably benefitting the most.
  • :Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon is a weirdly perfect partner, a SpD tank that eats macaroni and gator bites for breakfast (no judgement), can provide U-turn support for the team or even keep itself healthy with Roost. It doesn't pair as directly with Bro, but two have proven surprisingly effective together, at least for me.
  • :Gholdengo: Gholdengo likes help from FS in breaking Clod and appreciates Body Press making Gambit not a switch-in anymore.

What's Holding Bro Back
:sv/Kingambit: :sv/Meowscarada: :sv/Roaring Moon:

Now, the loss of Teleport is obviously a major reason why Slowbro isn't as good as last gen, but in my experience, I think I see a- bigger problem that is holding Bro back; you've probably already picked up on it. Put simply, Dark types are basically running the tier. Kingambit, Meowscarada and Roaring Moon are all huge threats that you have to account for in builder; to those that complain about the omnipresence of Great Tusk, it wouldn't be as common as it is if Dark resists weren't so important atm. And the Dark resists that are OU- every one of them drops to at least one of those three without Tera. From my experience, quite a few teams on ladder like to stack the Dark types, sometimes with a Ghost like Gholdengo waiting in the wings. And this means that Psychic types are generally not good in OU.

The Dark dominance is the main reason why Slowbro has any serious niche over Slowking, as the ability to directly threaten Dark types with Body Press is a small but crucial advantage when Dark types are this vital to deal with, enough to overcome the "no pivoting move" hurdle. However, Slowbro is basically forced to run Colbur Berry in order to actually make use of Press, and therefore can't make use of Lefties or Boots. Even if Press means it isn't helpless versus Dark, the fact it needs Tera to handle Dark moves repeatedly means it is heavily flawed as a tank and needs to be played carefully; that it can be a momentum sink now and lacks the utility of Scald is just icing on the cake. As long as Dark as dominant as it is, Slowbro will only ever have a small role in OU.

:sv/Slowbro: Conclusion :sv/Slowbro:
Slowbro is undeniably a niche pick at best. It does one thing (FuturePress), it is a tank with a key weakness to Dark, and it really only fits on a certain style of team. But that niche and its generally positive traits can be used to great effect, and I think said niche has room to be further explored and optimized. I would argue Iron Defense and Flamethrower are just as valid as Surf, but there may yet another option that benefits Bro's role even further; for the options I posited for Tera, there may be another option. Either way, Slowbro does have its own limited merit in the tier.

Some Slowbro Showcases:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1863204466
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1863244591
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1863816917
 
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For

Me, the standard set is great just because it is so consistent, from the start of the gen to now it has worked very well for me. The rest set seems like is trying to punish popular stuff, while it may work rn, just like it is an adaptation to certain sets in other mons other mons are going to run sets to exploit it too soon, at least that is the impression I got.

Rocks/spikes/EQ/WW on Ting Lu means you're never getting hazards against a competent team with Hatterene. Hence the adaptation sets.
 
For

Me, the standard set is great just because it is so consistent, from the start of the gen to now it has worked very well for me. The rest set seems like is trying to punish popular stuff, while it may work rn, just like it is an adaptation to certain sets in other mons other mons are going to run sets to exploit it too soon, at least that is the impression I got.
I quite literally always run Ruination over either Rocks or Spikes because of this as well as the recovery nerf making it burn recovery PP faster. I find that I never manage to get up full layers of Spikes and Rocks anyway, so just picking one is usually better. It also threatens things that want to switch into it like Tusk, which is a whole lot easier to kill at 50%. Rest is also an option, but I feel that the two turns needed to wake up again usually outclasses the good aspects because that's two whole turns of momentum drain and often it just gets low again by the time it wakes up. The time would be better spent laying hazards or chipping away at the enemy team. It kinda helps with the stall matchup, but they are over there spamming their filthy double regen cores so it doesn't even really help.
 
3. What is your go-to Pokemon for handling hazards that aren't Hatterene, Defog Corviknight, or switching in Glimmora/Clodsire/Toxapex to get rid of Toxic Spikes?

(about ting-lu I still like it in the current meta, access to spikes and rocks + eq ((which imo every team should have one ground move spammer)) and ruin is good but yeah no recovery without lefties/rest is wayyy rough)

anyways on to the actual question, I mentioned this set in my project heat post (smaller one potentially on the way..) but hawlucha has got an awesome typing to go up against current hazard setters and it has an amazing suprise support move pool with u-turn defog and roost.

more ou standard but at the start of the gen I loved using av iron treads with rapid spin, haven’t tested it much as of late but it served me well when I originally used it, semi rough typing does leave you vulnerable from stray eqs from common hazard setters but volt + knock is very cool for role compression with hazard removal

(unrelated but also cool decidueye post, as one who enjoys heat always fun to see cool sets and unique mons)
 
Rocks/spikes/EQ/WW on Ting Lu means you're never getting hazards against a competent team with Hatterene. Hence the adaptation sets.
Tera Ting-Lu beats Hatt always, at least that has been the case in my games. Since I tera Ting-Lu 9/10 games so Hatt isn't an issue. But well, I also don't prioritize hazards as much so Ting-Lu isn't my lead most of the times since I prefer to wait for the right moment.
 
scarf chomp (the actual best set)

Hey, how did you know I was working on a post about this very thing? Because it's absolutely true: if you're using a Garchomp set that isn't Scarf, you're probably better off replacing it with something else (unless you need specific role compression). But Scarf Chomp? Scarf Chomp can Do Some Stuff. Let's take a second to look at why:

To start, let's note that right now, the tier basically fits into 4 levels, speed-wise:

1. Things that can outrun Booster Valiant
2. Things that can outrun un-boosted Dragapult
3. Things that can outrun non-Booster Valiant
4. Everything else (i.e. The Land of Creep)

In other words, there are a few super fast threats at the top of the hierarchy, but after them, the meta is actually pretty slow. Because of that, Scarf Garchomp gets to use its eternally trolly 102 base speed to shine in a new way: giving it space to run Adamant. Historically, Garchomp's speed has been great for creeping base 100s, but in our meta, the bigger advantage by far is being able to creep +Speed base 87s (i.e. Great Tusk and Bax) with a neutral nature. Here's entire list of viable `mons through the B ranks that Garchomp fails to outspeed by running Adamant instead of Jolly:

non-bulky Volcarona
Hydreigon
Sandy Shocks
Indeedee M
That's it.

That's...not a lot to give up to gain an extra 10% power coming off a 130 attack stat.

So, why Scarf and not Band? Three reasons:
First, Garchomp doesn't have the coverage options to compete with Great Tusk or the raw power to compete with Bax as a Band user. It really is a two trick pony with EQ and Outrage, both of which have relatively common immunities. You're not gonna ruin someones day with a surprise Megahorn, Head Smash, or Play Rough like CB Tusk. You're not gonna muscle through checks the way Bax can with CB Tera Dragon Glaive Rush.

Second, Garchomp's other main advantage over Tusk beyond speed is having a good matchup against most of the common `mons that look to out-speed Dragapult. It's got vastly improved typing and special bulk over Great Tusk for switching into the likes of Volc, Iron Moth, Walking Wake, Cinderace, Scarf Washtom and others, and it has the tools to make those `mons suffer with Outrage for Scarf Washtom and +1 DDNite and Bax, Stone Edge for Volc, and EQ for...everything else.

Which brings us to reason three. The role of a scarfer is to a) check/force out other fast threats for your team (which we just saw how it does) and b) close out a match by clicking the same move over and over once you've removed appropriate resists and achieved sufficient chip. Whelp, here's what Garchomp can do with Adamant Tera Ground EQ:

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 142-168 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 190-224 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 108-127 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 144-170 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 10.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 306-362 (76.5 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 408-484 (102 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 193-228 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 258-304 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 228-268 (71.9 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 304-358 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 230-272 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 308-364 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 195-231 (67.4 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 260-308 (89.9 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 237-280 (67.5 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 316-374 (90 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona: 220-259 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona: 294-346 (78.8 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (even if you get Wisped)

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Normal Dragonite: 186-220 (57.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Normal Dragonite: 248-294 (76.7 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 139-165 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 186-220 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (even after Draining Kiss recovery, courtesy of Rough Skin chip)

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 120-142 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 161-190 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 177-208 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 236-278 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 118-139 (23.4 - 27.5%) -- 73.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 158-186 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 73.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Scream Tail: 181-214 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Scream Tail: 242-286 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 180-213 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 240-284 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (40-49% against 252+ Def, so needs some chip)

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 195-229 (57 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 260-306 (76 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark-Hisui: 271-321 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 288-340 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 249-294 (87.3 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 332-392 (116.4 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 214-253 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 286-338 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 108-127 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 144-170 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 180-213 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 240-284 (70.5 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 178-211 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 200-236 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 289-342 (92.9 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 386-456 (124.1 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Indeedee: 289-342 (110.7 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 252 Def Iron Hands: 270-320 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 252 Def Iron Hands: 360-428 (77.7 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 452-532 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Polteageist: 255-301 (97.7 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (i.e. you beat it if sash is broken)

TL;DR Offensive Great Tusk is the only offensive `mon in the tier that takes <70% from Tera Ground EQ without a resist (and Meowscarada and Breloom are both 2HKOd through their resistance), and the only defensive `mons that take <50% are Defensive Tusk, post-tera Garg, Dondozo, and Alomomola.

Scarf Chomp absolutely cleans up late game once you take out flying immunities or dragon resists. It has the right toolset and just enough speed to offensively check dangerous boosting `mons before they can get out of control. It is, IMO, far and away the best Garchomp set in the current meta.

:Garchomp: @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Crunch/Liquidation/Poison Jab/Facade/you'll probably never click this
 
specifically for HO teams, agility on a speed boosting iron moth is actually kinda nice
Can you elaborate? I find that Agility isn't that great most of the time because of a few reasons
1: Iron Moth is already strapped for moveslots to hit everything. It wants Fire STAB, Sludge Wave, Energy Ball, Discharge, Agility, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Morning Sun, Toxic Spikes, and U-Turn. The only thing that outspeeds you without Agility and without setup is BE Valiant which can kill with Psyshock, but it never even wants to switch in so you never get free turns to Agility.
2: Iron Moth is weak to some common priority moves like Aqua Jet Azu and is so physically frail that even stuff like Gambit's Sucker Punch can revenge it anyways
3: The game plan against Moth goes like this:
I: Moth switches in
II: Opponent, expecting you to attack, switches in something that walls it or if they think their current mon can take a hit and KO back, attack it.
In both scenarios, you'd rather have coverage to catch something switching in or be able to KO the current Pokemon. Using Agility is almost never worth it unless you are up against a Pokemon that can't significantly damage you, the opponent's team has something that regular BE Moth wouldn't outspeed, AND they don't have something that can wall it.

All that being said, I'm still a bad 1100s player. Maybe Valiant is really that big of a threat for HO teams, I hate the team style so I don't play it often. It just seems you'd have better answers for it.
 
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Can you elaborate? I find that Agility isn't that great most of the time because of a few reasons
As a guy who has a team with it
Agility moth speeds booster valiant after 1 boost
It lets you mind game the gambit
agility + fiery dance fish means you can sweep
you only need 2 moves for coverage with some luck
and boots are more consistent than booster

the team is in my current signature, man I love free publicity
 
As a guy who has a team with it
Agility moth speeds booster valiant after 1 boost
It lets you mind game the gambit
agility + fiery dance fish means you can sweep
you only need 2 moves for coverage with some luck
and boots are more consistent than booster

the team is in my current signature, man I love free publicity
Oh yeah agility on non-BE moth becomes a much more legit option than just "beats this one valiant set" but the person I was replying to specified speed BE Iron Moth.
 
Tera Ting-Lu beats Hatt always, at least that has been the case in my games. Since I tera Ting-Lu 9/10 games so Hatt isn't an issue. But well, I also don't prioritize hazards as much so Ting-Lu isn't my lead most of the times since I prefer to wait for the right moment.

Tera what? Poison dies to psyshock, steel dies to mystic fire, anything that doesn't resist fairy will get beat by CM into draining kiss healing, which keeps pace with your earthquake damage after a boost or two, unless you run max attack investment (and why would you invest in attack on a defensive mon with only 1 attack).

Tera fire Ting Lu just to beat Hatterene seems like a poor use of tera. You're not going to be full HP after killing Hatterene; you're now weak to rocks; and it's easy to force out a specially defensive pure fire type (hello, Great Tusk who is on every team).

End result is you're not getting up both rocks and spikes against a competent team with Hatterene. You struggle to get up even one of the two.
 
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Tera what? Poison dies to psyshock, steel dies to mystic fire, anything that doesn't resist fairy will get beat by CM into draining kiss healing, which keeps pace with your earthquake damage after a boost or two, unless you run max attack investment (and why would you invest in attack on a defensive mon with only 1 attack).
Ghost/fairy that are the most common beats Hatt 1vs1, without SE damage the draining kiss healing isn't enough because Hatt can't boost itself enough before it needs ti start to healing. It is so counterintuitive that a lot of people doesn't realize that Hatt loses that match up until is late and they end sacking it. At least that is how it has been for me, no Hatt has beat Ting-Lu unless it already has lost like 40% of its heal.
 
Ghost/fairy that are the most common beats Hatt 1vs1, without SE damage the draining kiss healing isn't enough because Hatt can't boost itself enough before it needs ti start to healing. It is so counterintuitive that a lot of people doesn't realize that Hatt loses that match up until is late and they end sacking it. At least that is how it has been for me, no Hatt has beat Ting-Lu unless it already has lost like 40% of its heal.

So you're playing against people who don't know the calcs.

If someone knows the calcs, they know they need to boost before healing with drain kiss. That does put you in an okay position (you know they need to boost so you can switch) but now you no longer have tera and you don't have hazards up. Hatterene did its job.
 
Ghost/fairy that are the most common beats Hatt 1vs1, without SE damage the draining kiss healing isn't enough because Hatt can't boost itself enough before it needs ti start to healing. It is so counterintuitive that a lot of people doesn't realize that Hatt loses that match up until is late and they end sacking it. At least that is how it has been for me, no Hatt has beat Ting-Lu unless it already has lost like 40% of its heal.

Depends on the situation but I would have to agree with you, unless Hatt is 252 HP / 252 DEF and already at 75% health and +2 CM than it usually loses
 
Depends on the situation but I would have to agree with you, unless Hatt is 252 HP / 252 DEF and already at 75% health and +2 CM than it usually loses

Are people not running max HP / max def Hatterene? Maybe HO teams with red card on Hatterene, but those guys are usually running something else to shut down your Ting Lu after they switch in on the first EQ (taunt etc)
 
So you're playing against people who don't know the calcs.
Even if they know the calcs, they will bring Hatt into Ting-Lu because that is what you need to do with Hatt, bring it into the hazzard setter and even if they notice that they can lose Hatt in that match up switching Hatt gives the rival the opportunity to set up spikes/SR, unless you want to risk the 50-50 to switch in Hatt back predicting the Ting-Lu to click spikes/SR, but that is an unnecesary risk for the Hatt player and usually what they do against me is letting the Hatt die in exchange of putting my Ting-Lu in range of other attacker that can KO it or at least force it to switch out the next turn.
That is a mid game, of course I won't lead with Ting-Lu when my opponent has a Hatterene or I will bring it against an already boosted Hatt to beat it, like I mentioned before, I personally don't like to make my teams that dependant of hazards so I'm fine tradding my Ting-Lu for a huge threat like CM Hatt. I like Ting-Lu for stuff like this, it can beat 1v1 a lot of stuff that not a lot of people might expect even with just EQ, while Whirlwind messes a lot with the rival momentum, negates set up attemps at early-mid games or my favorite is wasting booster energy early, the hazards are just a nice extra and also frees its teamates from running them, that is why I keep using the same set since december, it is just too consistent for me.
 
Any speedy “sweeper” that doesn’t have priority or a type that resists dark is wasting its time in like 40% of games.

gambit is real

gambit is often left healthy till last

you need a good lure to delete it in a matchup. And lures tend to work the first time. It’s more difficult on subsequent attempts.

the higher up the ladder you go, the smaller the pool of players. They remember your sets, and adapt quickly. It’s hard to have repeatable success with sets like agility iron moth unless you have a very distinct MU advantage (or are Tera fairy). And often this is simply from hitting hard, less about the speed boost.

personally I’m a big fan of 4A with HDB, although can see some merit of a modest set with agility. At least it hits like a truck. Also watched a game where a modest specs Tera grass moth pulled down an entire team with each time it was safely brought in.
 
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For

Me, the standard set is great just because it is so consistent, from the start of the gen to now it has worked very well for me. The rest set seems like is trying to punish popular stuff, while it may work rn, just like it is an adaptation to certain sets in other mons other mons are going to run sets to exploit it too soon, at least that is the impression I got.
The problem with the standard is that you cannot afford to get statused or get your lefties removed. Then, you can get worn down even by Dragapult shadow balls
 
Mods are asleep, quick!
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Post your post-home meta spicy predictions!
 
Maybe not spicy opinion but the presence of Heatran will make the Mathup-Moth healthy in the metagame by severly limiting its variance in Tera choices, given that movepool distribution is restored (basically Ground and Water, maybe Fighting or Poison).
Personally I hope there will be a move tutor in the DLC that will teach Moth Earth Power. I want to see Moth be unrestrained and unlimited, even if they'll end up Ubers
 
In addition, Overqwil's physical bulk is comparable to Lando-T's, so Intimidate sets will probably stick around for a decent amount of time if used correctly. Lack of Spikes immunity does hurt but at least you absorb T-Spikes.
Might not be worth much, but technically Qwilfish-H with Eviolite is bulkier than Overqwil and has the same speed stats. Granted, Overqwil isn't hindered by Knock Off and has the passive recovery of Leftovers/Black Sludge, but I wanted to mention that lol.
 
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