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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Well now that's just cheating ain't it
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Ground Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 276-325 (70.2 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Can I get in on this bet?!
Counterargument
+6 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Ground Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tera Flying Toxapex: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
But yeah, Lando is ugly, I don't want it
If you guys voted to have Magearna stay but keep Lando-I banned, y'all a bunch of clowns js
Lando-I live betting odds: (Subject to change based on incoming information prior to official announcement)
-140 to start off in ubers after HOME
+130 to start off in OU after HOME
Taking bets in PM
Magearna is taking Genesect's place while it comes back from the Dexit, a way to preserve the traditions.
I mean I voted Uber on both, but Landorus-I is very clearly the more broken of the two
no it's not very clearly the more broken of the two they're about the same IMO, with a slight edge for lando i
lando I has the funny calcs but Magearna can just dismantle teams even without Tera, which is also why LoseToRU saying "without Tera it's not busted" is wild, because yes, it is
magearna is a fundamentally broken Pokemon. It basically stat checks every Pokemon offensively, and if they aren't also Obscenely Strong, it can go for a free win on the spot.
it's not even hard. it's not even set dependent. Pretty much every Magearna set can dismantle a good chunk of teams, with several setup options or "just nuke shit" sets
it also just serves to make offense one of the only good strategies in a tier because stuff like Specs literally just switches in every time and can at minimum Volt Switch.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 124-146 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
"just have a max HP max Special Defense Assault Vest Toxapex lol"
especially with the fact that AV Pex has only one hazard immunity, it is only getting regen healing and that is outpaced by the damage alone.
wanna run SpDef Pex to Haze setup variants?
we all saw what happened in SWSH lmfao.
clodsire is a decently solid check but that just means you are forced to run clod, which is lame for diversity in team structures
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 109-129 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
lmao. switching into this and it goes into any Pokemon which denies recovery, you basically just need to out offense it or run Clodsire yeah
lando I has the funny calcs but Magearna can just dismantle teams even without Tera, which is also why LoseToRU saying "without Tera it's not busted" is wild, because yes, it is
magearna is a fundamentally broken Pokemon. It basically stat checks every Pokemon offensively, and if they aren't also Obscenely Strong, it can go for a free win on the spot.
it's not even hard. it's not even set dependent. Pretty much every Magearna set can dismantle a good chunk of teams, with several setup options or "just nuke shit" sets
it also just serves to make offense one of the only good strategies in a tier because stuff like Specs literally just switches in every time and can at minimum Volt Switch.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 124-146 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
"just have a max HP max Special Defense Assault Vest Toxapex lol"
especially with the fact that AV Pex has only one hazard immunity, it is only getting regen healing and that is outpaced by the damage alone.
wanna run SpDef Pex to Haze setup variants?
we all saw what happened in SWSH lmfao.
clodsire is a decently solid check but that just means you are forced to run clod, which is lame for diversity in team structures
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 109-129 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
lmao. switching into this and it goes into any Pokemon which denies recovery, you basically just need to out offense it or run Clodsire yeah
See I actually have doubts on this statement; Magearna only gained more tools to secure its foothold, but Landorus-I gaining Nasty Plot in exchange for losing Rock Polish kinda seems like a net loss to me overall. Landorus-I never really needed this extra power since it already had Calm Mind and just hit insanely hard in general to begin with, but losing the ability to outrun pokemon that would otherwise revenge kill it seems like a understatedly huge impact.
this generation features a lot more good fire pokemon, like Volc, Moth, Ace, and Dirge, as well as good steel-types like Ghold that means that a regular team has enough checks to play around it sufficiently. It's typing isn't THAT good either, because every dragon that it wants to switch into carries Earthquake or Fire Blast to do big damage. Its Calm Mind sets struggle against the Unaware and Haze users, and its Specs variant loses the coverage it wants in TB ground or the sheer nuking power in Tera Fairy to bust through everything, making it more prediction-reliant and a hit-and-run attacker.
...is what i would have said had GameFreak not given this thing Spikes letting it 1v1 half the tier and make progress vs its bad matchups still.
Looking at it now, why was there a y in the second part.?
Also I didn’t realize Landorus lost Rock Polish. If Landorus-I gets banned (which likely still will), it very much throws out any arguments for keeping Enamorus-I. It being faster and having one of the best snowballing potential.
Bro this is the last crumb of attention I'm giving you.
If it hasn't been made clear by me constantly ignoring your DMs, tagging me in OU chat, posting on my Smog profile and laugh reacting to literally all my posts without me responding or reacting to your posts, or responding to you when we link up in room tours and I get the easiest 6-0's of my life, that I just don't think you're worth my time nor energy, then I guess I'll spell it out directly here.
Please do not take my words out of context, and I say this for the countless time, since your modus operandi is bad faith arguments, ad-hom, and shamelessly taking things out of context.
Literally my entire post was how Mage is broken and how I will be voting ban.
I said SP might be a nail in the coffin, because the other sets generally have answers.
SG+CM coupled w BoltBeam or Fairy/Fighting is might as well be Volcarona for all Clod, Dirge and CM Blissey care.
It's still an insane mon but w/o SP it's much better handled than without it.
That's literally all I said.
Ik u get mad triggered with anything critical of tera, and I don't have the desire nor the stomach to dissect why your ego is so tied up with this mechanic, but I mentioned Tera in passing.
I said that normally Dirge could hard wall most Mage and Volc sets, but thanks to Tera Ground Volc you can muscle past it.
So if you pair SP Mage + Ground Volc, no Spd core can stop you- that's what I said.
Specs Mage + Trick was always going to be wild and hard to deal with, but not enough to justify a day 1 QB whatsoever.
Fleur still puts you at -2 Spa and is just set up bait for Volc and others if not handled correctly.
I'm asking you to stop engaging with me. I don't want to be your enemy/friend/rival etc.
I don't find your opinions relevant due to various reasons and there is no common ground to be found via discussion.
No offense, but leave me out of any future hot takes and other ramblings.
This small drop of attention is your last so enjoy it. Smh.
Specs Magearna appears incredibly formidable by itself. There's hardly anything capable of switching into it without the concern of suffering a potential loss or unfavorable trade. Fleur Cannon is exceptionally powerful; any targets immune to Fleur Cannon will simply be hit with Volt Switch instead, and bulkier Pokémon will constantly dread Trick. Also keep in mind that Fleur Cannon with Tera Fairy may not need Choice Specs.
Furthermore, I'd like to emphasize that if Magearna were to gain access to Tera Blast, it would provide an opportunity for Magearna to overcome its typical counters rather than solely relying on Volt Switch. Things like Skeledirge, Heatran, Iron Moth, Toxapex and Clodsire are all completely overwhelmed by Ground Tera Blast.
For non-choice sets, I believe that there is still a viable defensive application for Tera. By equipping Magearna with Tera Water, it can suddenly sweep Sun and Rain teams effortlessly. Alternatively, by utilizing Tera Flying, Magearna can take advantage of Great Tusk (and even bait Scarf). In the case of Stored Power sets, opponents already had to play very carefully to avoid being overwhelmed, and now Tera only worsens that situation, making it significantly more challenging for them.
Furthermore, I'd like to emphasize that if Magearna were to gain access to Tera Blast, it would provide an opportunity for Magearna to overcome its typical counters rather than solely relying on Volt Switch. Things like Skeledirge, Heatran, Iron Moth, Toxapex and Clodsire are all completely overwhelmed by Ground Tera Blast.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 372-440 (90.5 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 612-720 (158.5 - 186.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 796-940 (264.4 - 312.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 312-368 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 212-252 (69.9 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 612-720 (158.5 - 186.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 796-940 (264.4 - 312.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 312-368 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ground Magearna Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 212-252 (69.9 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For non-choice sets, I believe that there is still a viable defensive application for Tera. By equipping Magearna with Tera Water, it can suddenly sweep Sun and Rain teams effortlessly. Alternatively, by utilizing Tera Flying, Magearna can take advantage of Great Tusk (and even bait Scarf). In the case of Stored Power sets, opponents already had to play very carefully to avoid being overwhelmed, and now Tera only worsens that situation, making it significantly more challenging for them.
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Thankfully Clod is a great hard counter, normally.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 126-148 (27.2 - 31.9%) -- 54.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And obviously can't be Volt switched on- but does have to fear Trick.
However, any chance Mage has of staying, like you illustrated here, is ruined by Tera without question.
Some of OU's best mons post/pre Home can handle Mage in most regards as this user put it:
In a no Tera meta I could see Mage barely staying in A+ or S tier once the meta settles, yet wouldn't be surprised if it was forced out, but can't say for sure either way. What I am sure of though, like I've been saying for months, that if a mon is great, then it's at risk for being broken w Tera.
You wrote this fanfiction when the truth is just that I think Magearna is broken in general, and I found your point about that to be wrong
I literally agree that Tera makes Magearna a lot more broken, I just think it's super silly to think it would be anything but busted without it in the meta
At the end of the day this is a forum and as I cannot control who replies to my arguments, neither can you. I didn't tag you or directly reply to you, I mentioned that you made that argument. It has been pretty clear to me for a while your thoughts.
Also, it's very weird to pretend I have some obsession with you. I DMed you once months ago to ask if you wanted to try out an alternative to a Tera metagame, as I asked other people, because I wanted to see if my idea would make people who hate it enjoy its presence.
I tagged you once on the OU chatroom like, months ago. Same with DM, where I'm pretty sure I said nothing but positive things about you. Something to the effect of "Despite not agreeing with you, I don't dislike you or anything to be clear." I've been very civil besides not agreeing with your opinions.
I'll never hold a grudge against people over silly Pokemon opinions, and that doesn't change today. But this post is actually pretty much lying about things I do lmao.
I believe its not irrational to run Balloon Magearna, that Clodsire cannot possibly touch lol. From there is just free clicking until Clodsire run out of Recover and then its no longer an answer.
Or Magearna can just do this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 234-276 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Or maybe even some of this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 430-506 (92.8 - 109.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 200-236 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 362-428 (120.2 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 234-276 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Or maybe even some of this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 430-506 (92.8 - 109.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 200-236 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 362-428 (120.2 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
don't worry just run tera steel volt absorb jolteon to wall specs mag
Magearna biggest issue is its movepool, specs fluer cannon is great yeah, but it has so many options that will be broken not matter what, running tera blast in kinda pointless when it gets at least one move to hit every check it has.
Focus blast says hi to it and Heatran.
Lmao p funny but far from practical due to the other 5 teammates being able to pop it, but if you save it for late game then yeah u could do some work even vs clod lol
There's a lot of mons that would love for Mage to be locked into Ice Beam or Psyshock.
Don't forget we're getting Tran, Volcan, H-Rott, etc and Psyshock I don't have to spell that out for you obv.
I'm sorta playing devil's advocate w Mage, due to mostly I want the AV set to be a thing.
The utility of that set would be sorely missed in a post-Home Tera meta..
All the offensive sets have answers, albeit shaky ones but on paper u can argue all day that it has dedicated checks, even w Tera via defensive Tera- on paper to be clear.
SP, however, is hard to argue- when u add in all the other factors such as its other sets and Tera.
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