Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Punchshroom said:
See I actually have doubts on this statement; Magearna only gained more tools to secure its foothold, but Landorus-I gaining Nasty Plot in exchange for losing Rock Polish kinda seems like a net loss to me overall. Landorus-I never really needed this extra power since it already had Calm Mind and just hit insanely hard in general to begin with, but losing the ability to outrun pokemon that would otherwise revenge kill it seems like a understatedly huge impact.
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This is a very fair point. The metagame is much faster than when Landorus was last usable in OU, and not having tools to boost its base 101 Spe will lock it down more as a pure wallbreaker rather than something that can clean. With that said, Lando-I can completely dismantle balance & BO by itself, especially since none of the Unaware Pokemon can switch into Lando safely.

Revenge killing Lando-I isn't too difficult, but it's impossible to switch into once it's in. With its typing, it gets a lot of opportunities to switch in.
 
I don,t think Tera makes Magearna more broken than it already is. Like yes, its an offensive Pokemon that can change type to overcome checks... but every offensive Pokemon can do that.
Magearna has the best defensive typing in the game. Any typing it changes to, its objectively worse on the defensive side outside of specific scenarios (which will be the ones in which it Teras, of course) and makes it easier to Revenge Kill Magearna.

Its already a Broken Mon without Tera, Tera just adds extra options to it. Without Tera it could still break Clodsire with Ice Beam, Skeledirge with Shadow Ball or Iron Moth with Psyshock, just not all 3 at the same time.
 
Eeveeto said:
I don,t think Tera makes Magearna more broken than it already is. Like yes, its an offensive Pokemon that can change type to overcome checks... but every offensive Pokemon can do that.
Magearna has the best defensive typing in the game. Any typing it changes to, its objectively worse on the defensive side outside of specific scenarios (which will be the ones in which it Teras, of course) and makes it easier to Revenge Kill Magearna.

Its already a Broken Mon without Tera, Tera just adds extra options to it. Without Tera it could still break Clodsire with Ice Beam, Skeledirge with Shadow Ball or Iron Moth with Psyshock, just not all 3 at the same time.
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The most disgusting thing about Tera Magearna imo is Stored Power variants. Stored Power Magearna is already a set that demands you tread lightly on eggshells (in the midst of guessing its set while you're at it) to prevent it from snowballing out of control, but Tera means it can potentially snatch away that narrow window of counterplay opportunity from you anyway. Who cares if it Teras into a "worse type" if it's just gonna sweep you all the same?
 
Punchshroom said:
The most disgusting thing about Tera Magearna imo is Stored Power variants. Stored Power Magearna is already a set that demands you tread lightly on eggshells (in the midst of guessing its set while you're at it) to prevent it from snowballing out of control, but Tera means it can potentially snatch away that narrow window of counterplay opportunity from you anyway. Who cares if it Teras into a "worse type" if it's just gonna sweep you all the same?
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Stored Power is not a set you can splash on every team and have a day. It needs a careful team around it and good plays to wear down checks. Its probably the set that needs more skillful play to make it work, even though that when it does work its quite infuriating to lose against.
Stored Power Magearna is healthy, if that was the only set it used, it would be a fine Mon.
The problem is that it has 4423232 other Sets, Specs being the most dangerous one.
 
Eeveeto said:
I don,t think Tera makes Magearna more broken than it already is. Like yes, its an offensive Pokemon that can change type to overcome checks... but every offensive Pokemon can do that.
Magearna has the best defensive typing in the game. Any typing it changes to, its objectively worse on the defensive side outside of specific scenarios (which will be the ones in which it Teras, of course) and makes it easier to Revenge Kill Magearna.

Its already a Broken Mon without Tera, Tera just adds extra options to it. Without Tera it could still break Clodsire with Ice Beam, Skeledirge with Shadow Ball or Iron Moth with Psyshock, just not all 3 at the same time.
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I mean you can think that but it's not very correct- you said yourself that it can't check those 3 mons at the same time, meaning that w/o Tera there's 2 checks right there if locked into the wrong move.

Shadowball and Psychock are p meme worthy when it comes to a specs set.
This will be the most viable set as it always has been
Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul-Heart
Tera Type: Who Cares
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Focus Blast

There are some slight variations of this but let's get the S-ball and Psyshock stuff out of serious discussion- you're almost never going to click them.
The free slot might be Trick/FB but that's subpar, but if you had to drop one ur not replacing it with S-ball or Shock..

Mage isn't some insanely broken mon, the question is if it's too strong for OU and some of us think it might be fine since we have a massive power creep and each set has an answer.

The only time its answers to it's multiple sets are checked are w Tera. The only time you can't revenge it with certain mons is Tera.

Eeveeto said:
Stored Power is not a set you can splash on every team and have a day. It needs a careful team around it and good plays to wear down checks. Its probably the set that needs more skillful play to make it work, even though that when it does work its quite infuriating to lose against.
Stored Power Magearna is healthy, if that was the only set it used, it would be a fine Mon.
The problem is that it has 4423232 other Sets, Specs being the most dangerous one.
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SP is easily its most unhealthy set.
Screens + Rilla (optional) + SG/CM/Draining Kiss is what pushed it into ubers last gen.

Specs is no joke, but then again neither is Specs Val, Specs Gold, Specs Wake, etc.
 
LoseToRU? said:
I'm sorta playing devil's advocate w Mage, due to mostly I want the AV set to be a thing.
The utility of that set would be sorely missed in a post-Home Tera meta..
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IMO in the end Mag will cause more issues with the offensive sets that the good it could with the AV set. Not having recovery outside leftovers and draining kiss (with not much investiment on special attack) won't be enough to consistently answer all the special attackers, especially with having to answer its offensive sets constantly, that added to the fact of how good and easy to set up spikes in this gen is just hard to think in AV Mag justifying the existence on the set up or specs sets. Also, we will get Galarian Slowking which even if it is not the same, renegerator gives it is a huge advantage over AV Mag.
 
Mega Breloom said:
IMO in the end Mag will cause more issues with the offensive sets that the good it could with the AV set. Not having recovery outside leftovers and draining kiss (with not much investiment on special attack) won't be enough to consistently answer all the special attackers, especially with having to answer its offensive sets constantly, that added to the fact of how good and easy to set up spikes in this gen is just hard to think in AV Mag justifying the existence on the set up or specs sets. Also, we will get Galarian Slowking which even if it is not the same, renegerator gives it is a huge advantage over AV Mag.
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Not really true, as historically Mag just used pain split, and there are tons of special threats that AV could blanket in the meta game.G-slowking while good couldn't possibly blanket strong special ghost & dark moves from mons in the meta like Hydrei and Pult, plus the massive influx of defoggers will lessen the burden of spikes stacking, and if anything, the same spikes weak argument applies to g-slowking.
 
Man I sure like Meowscarada in the current meta :Meowscarada:
It really is a nice pivot with U-turn and a nice speed tier
It can also be a spikes lead
And punishes the ever exasperating Garganacl :Garganacl: thanks to Flower Trick ignoring any Iron Defense/Curse boosts
Yeah bro the current meta sure is a nice thing to behold with stuff like Meowscarada and Great Tusks
And in this meta there is no such thing as a "Mag" or a "Hisuian Sneasler"
Let's go May 23 present moment meta
 
Mega Breloom said:
IMO in the end Mag will cause more issues with the offensive sets that the good it could with the AV set. Not having recovery outside leftovers and draining kiss (with not much investiment on special attack) won't be enough to consistently answer all the special attackers, especially with having to answer its offensive sets constantly, that added to the fact of how good and easy to set up spikes in this gen is just hard to think in AV Mag justifying the existence on the set up or specs sets. Also, we will get Galarian Slowking which even if it is not the same, renegerator gives it is a huge advantage over AV Mag.
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It handles NP Hydre, NP Gold, Specs Pult, Leki and Gmolt much better than both Slowkings, and unlike the Slowtwins it can pivot while holding an AV, which they can not unless they want to drop Chilly Reception- all w/o needing to Tera.

I'm not saying it's gonna hold the tier together it's just a solid set that will be missed in certain situations.

We just have a weird grab bag of mons this gen and I think it would be nice to have in general.
It's also a soft check to a surprising amount of Phys mons thanks to typing/bulk.
It won't be it's best set as this meta is about to somehow even get more offensive orientated, but at risk of ad nauseam, I'm just saying AV Mage will be sorely missed when looking for an answers to a lot of common sets.
But this is most likely my last Mage post.
SP + Tera (pick your poison) in my humble opinion will push it out of OU.
We could maybe manage one of those, but no way can both of these aspects lead to Mage staying in any capacity.
Anyway, RIP to the Artificial Pokemon. Enjoy it while you can <3
 
pika pal said:
Did Lando-I ever use Rock Polish since it was nuclear by default and the speed prevented revenge kills?
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Probably? Haven't used him since Gen 6. But I ran U-turn back then, which was infinitely funnier since you smacked an incoming Lati and proceeded to Pursuit trap it.
 
Lando-I did run Rock Pollish. With it, it swept offensive teams late game. However, it was less flexible than 4 Attacks Lando or Substitute + 3, which could come mid game, force a switch and do lots of damage to pretty much everything. RP could do it to, to some extent, but if it choosed to do it, it often failed at the end game sweep.
Either way, with or without RP, Lando-I has moves to 2HKO the whole meta and is more broken than Magearna (who is also broken, to not get my words misunderstood), posing an immediate threat 90% of the time it comes to the field. Only good (for me) thing it can provide is proving everyone at last that Sdef Corviknight is the best set.
 
arnimacarni said:
I'm such a noob that on release day I developed the following set:

Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
Tera Type: Water
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Close Combat
- Rage Fist

And I was like OMG BRO THIS IS BROKEN I CAN HEAL WITH REST AND NOT FALL ASLEEP

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
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If you get hit by Gastro Acid or have Annihilape's ability changed such as Skill Swap or Entrainment, it can really heal itself with Rest (Useless if it carries an Ability Shield of course)
 
A little late, but here to drop my thoughts on the robo rabbit.

Mage being allowed is crazy ngl, but it is going to be very interesting to see how it develops in this meta (assuming it gets time to do so lmao). In theory there's a lot of new stuff to handle it this time around: Clodsire, a good collective of bulky Fire-types (especially a more common Volcarona and the Dirge), Gholdengo to tank and Trick without too much hassle against many sets, and the return of some other solid checks like Glowking and Heatran with Magearna post-HOME. Interested to see as well how it interacts with and affects Pex: you need Haze to have any hope of checking CM, but AV is more effective against a lot of the other sets.

It's hard to really predict what will be best on Magearna this gen, as I think the current meta will change the dynamic of some of its longtime sets. Here's my opinion on where the best of Magearna's 20 million sets fit into the meta:

  • Specs will probably operate on a similar level to last gen (i.e. being damn near uncheckable) with Tera Fairy or Tera Ground to blow past pretty much anything it wants and Trick being as important as always.
  • Stored Power will probably be very VERY influential. I think it'll bring screens HO back into the spotlight, and defensive Tera gives it a new element against usual checks like Heatran.
  • I can't really see CalmSplit (my personal favorite Mage set, rip) finding a place in a meta with Skeledirge and Clodsire, at least not the way it operated in gens 7 and 8.
  • Assault Vest could go either way; hazards (especially Spikes) are so ubiquitous in this metagame that it might just get worn down too fast, but it does bring a quite solid Valiant check to the table and defensive pivots are in demand.
  • For classic Shift Gear sets, I see them becoming very Tera reliant, as without TB Ground they just get too easily blanked by Clod, Glowking, and the Fire-types running around.
  • One extremely interesting prospect for me is Shuca - a bit sparsely used last gen, but amazing against a lot of the new threats - Roaring Moon, Bax, Tusk, and opposing Tera Ground Magearna. This is one of the main sets where I see Spikes fitting in, as it has lead potential and tools to crack all of Tusk, Corv, and Hatt.

Honestly, if anything pushes Magearna over the edge this gen it's Tera - I'd expect it to be pretty manageable without it. As I mentioned before, common denominator for all the checks I listed, Tera Blast Ground smokes them all. Tera Fairy turns Fleur Cannon from a nuke into a bigger nuke, Tera Flying and Water shift the only weaknesses Magearna's already unbelievable typing has in a pinch, and the latter comes with some cool Tera Blast coverage of its own. Magearna's power, versatility, and matchup factor get amped up to 11 with Tera, but it also comes with the very real drawback of losing the best defensive typing in the game. I'm not really ready to form a definite opinion on that, or on Magearna in general, until we've observed what it has in store this gen and how effectively the meta can respond.
 
As if there was any doubt about Lando-I, that thing's a monster.
Annihilape is more interesting, there's a number of new additions that'd check it and if Magearna of all things is legal, Ape could go either way.
 
Feel like a lot of people are overconfident in dirge as a magearna answer when a volt into two fleurs is favoured for the magearna to kill. gonna be gone in a week mags main answers is sort of check it/pray they aren't a certain set (or overload on answers) then try and win first as far as I can tell. It has no answer to specs alone I doubt its struggling to come in with its typing and bulk either. This is completely ignoring cm stuff ofc.
 
Annihilape is stupid, but I don't think that having it in the tier for 2-3 weeks should it get unbanned will be as bad as having Magearna here. Will feel bad for the people who play stall and/or fat balance if it drops though
 
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