GARCHOMP Tier Discussion Thread

Should Garchomp be tested out of OU? (Please read thread before voting.)

  • Yes, it should be tested and maybe moved to Uber.

    Votes: 41 56.9%

  • No, it can Easily be countered.

    Votes: 31 43.1%
  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .
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Well I think it would just be easier to ban sandstream pokemon.

I mean Garchomp should be allowed IMO without Sand Veil... it is his only trait though so we either ban him completely, or we ban the pokemon that cause sandstorm.


ikke said:
why would that thing be anything other then OU?
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Edit: Ikke: Are you retarded... maybe he is other than OU for all the fucking reasons in this thread. He has above average defensive stats, great attack/hp/speed, a super movepool, an ability that makes him uncounterable because you an easily miss and then he kills you. He can singlehandedly sweep teams, he unbalances/centralizes the metagame.

You know what: Why should Deoxys S be anything but uber, what about wobbuffet?
 
Bentendo13 said:
Why? Ice Shard from CB Weavile is a definite OHKO on 16 HP Garchomp, and it would've been nice, but I don't have the stat requirements off the top of my head.

Why do they only beat it 80% of the time though? >.<
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Requiring an Ice Shard CB Weavile is the definition of overcentralization. Adding on top of that you can't safely switch Weavile in, plus, during Weavile's attack, you can simple switch to something like Metagross, forcing Weavile to switch out giving you a free turn to boost Agility on Metagross or a free turn to attack or Sub. On top of that, with Sand Veil in Sand Storm, all attacks, minus the ones with guarenteed accuracy such as Aerial Ace, will have 80% accuracy of the normal accuracy. So Ice Shard will have 80% accuracy, whereas Hypnosis only have 56%. How would you feel if you finally put that CB Weavile on your team just to kill this overcentralized thing and then end up missing?

And 1 missed move can get Garchomp either Sub, SD or a free attack, which that thing can kill your whole team.
 
Es5enc3 said:
Cresselia counters all Garchomps . Bronzong can come on everything except fire . Other than that you can always murder a garchomp that is locked on outrage quite easily.... I don't see any reason for it being Uber.
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Cresselia gets 2HKO by Crunch or STAB Outrage. You switch in on one, you get 50% of HP taken off, then dead on the next turn. It's not a guarenteed counter, but only certain circumstances only.

Obi said:
I believe Garchomp to be more deserving of being uber than Kyogre, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Wobbuffet, Dialga, Tyranitar, Togekiss, Celebi, Jirachi, and others. I believe I explained this in my "What is uber" thread. To me, it makes no sense to have any of those be uber and allow Garchomp. I am firmly convinced that Garchomp would be uber if it showed up on the overland screen and was a one-time-catch.
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And Obi, you forgot Darkrai. It's not as fearsome as it seems... Very overrated really...

NOTE: I've added a poll to this thread. Please read, THEN vote.
 
1059860 said:
Requiring an Ice Shard CB Weavile is the definition of overcentralization. Adding on top of that you can't safely switch Weavile in, plus, during Weavile's attack, you can simple switch to something like Metagross, forcing Weavile to switch out giving you a free turn to boost Agility on Metagross or a free turn to attack or Sub. On top of that, with Sand Veil in Sand Storm, all attacks, minus the ones with guarenteed accuracy such as Aerial Ace, will have 80% accuracy of the normal accuracy. So Ice Shard will have 80% accuracy, whereas Hypnosis only have 50%. How would you feel if you finally put that CB Weavile on your team just to kill this overcentralized thing and then end up missing?

And 1 missed move can get Garchomp either Sub, SD or a free attack, which that thing can kill your whole team.
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fixed
 
I think that Garchomp should be banned. Here are some reasons:

1# Dragon is awesome attacking type, only steel types resist it. Every steel type expect Skarmory and Bronzong is owned by Earthquake.

2# SR resist. Garchomp can switch in many times, because the SR resist. Spikes hurt it, yes, but something like Forretress is just easy setup to Garchomp.

3# Thunderwave resist. Garchomp doesn't need to be afraid of thunderwave. So he can easily absorb the thunderwave and then sweep.

4# No really counters. Like Jibaku said Cresselia and Hippowdon can't take outrages. After SD both get 2HKOed.

5# Sand Veil. Kill or get killed. Your best Garchomp counter uses Ice Beam. It miss. Game Over.
 
Bogmire said:
70-20=50
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It's stacking accuracy, so it's 70% accuracy on top of the 80% hit rate. It should be 70% * 80% = 56%.

Ferdie said:
I think that Garchomp should be banned. Here are some reasons:

1# Dragon is awesome attacking type, only steel types resist it. Every steel type expect Skarmory and Bronzong is owned by Earthquake.

2# SR resist. Garchomp can switch in many times, because the SR resist. Spikes hurt it, yes, but something like Forretress is just easy setup to Garchomp.

3# Thunderwave resist. Garchomp doesn't need to be afraid of thunderwave. So he can easily absorb the thunderwave and then sweep.

4# No really counters. Like Jibaku said Cresselia and Hippowdon can't take outrages. After SD both get 2HKOed.

5# Sand Veil. Kill or get killed. Your best Garchomp counter uses Ice Beam. It miss. Game Over.
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2# Forretress gets owned by 4x weakness of Fire Fang (after 1 SD) or Fire Blast.

4# What is a Jibaku?
 
I love how some people voted: It is easily countered... We are going over ALL forms of Garchomp. Not just CB/Scarf chomp. I doubt anything can counter a garchomp hiding behind Sand Veil + SUB + BrightPowder + 6 attack from SD...

and that can happen very often since you miss it all the damn time.

Plus I dont see the harm in testing it. I mean what is the problem?

I mean you could vote It can be Countered but you really shouldnt since there is nothing wrong with testing it. Also I would be willing to bet that the majority of people that vote "It is easily countered" use Garchomp, and they probably use him poorly if they think he is countered easily.
 
Kira said:
I love how some people voted: It is easily countered... We are going over ALL forms of Garchomp. Not just CB/Scarf chomp. I doubt anything can counter a garchomp hiding behind Sand Veil + SUB + BrightPowder + 6 attack from SD...

and that can happen very often since you miss it all the damn time.
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Well, the chances of missing Subchomp under Sandstorm so he can Swords Dance in that turn are 0.28 x 0.28 x 0.28 = 2.1952%. Not that much, specially considering you'll only get four Substitutes at most. But I see your point.
 
Actually I think it is higher than just a two percent chance of missing. Otherwise it wouldnt have this many complaints.

I have had numerous times where I manage to break it's sub right before dieing... switch to gengar and use HP ice, and then miss. It happens way too many times for it to just be a 2% chance.
 
Kira said:
Well I think it would just be easier to ban sandstream pokemon.

I mean Garchomp should be allowed IMO without Sand Veil... it is his only trait though so we either ban him completely, or we ban the pokemon that cause sandstorm.



Edit: Ikke: Are you retarded... maybe he is other than OU for all the fucking reasons in this thread. He has above average defensive stats, great attack/hp/speed, a super movepool, an ability that makes him uncounterable because you an easily miss and then he kills you. He can singlehandedly sweep teams, he unbalances/centralizes the metagame.

You know what: Why should Deoxys S be anything but uber, what about wobbuffet?
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ok, its still not that hard to counter....
 
ultimifier said:
WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE UBERS... you cannot compare garchomp to ubers saying that it isn't as good as the UBERS. we are stating whether or not garchomp is too good for OU, not if it is as good as the UBER pokemon.

read the first couple pages of this thread man
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That's not what I said. I said that the other ubers are ubers not because they can be supported very well, but because they alone are very powerful without the help of supporters.
 
Mario with Lasers said:
Well, the chances of missing Subchomp under Sandstorm so he can Swords Dance in that turn are 0.28 x 0.28 x 0.28 = 2.1952%. Not that much, specially considering you'll only get four Substitutes at most. But I see your point.
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Your math is wrong. All you need is one miss, but your calculation shows the % possibility of missing all 3 turns. There would be 1 - (.72 x .72 x .72) = 62.6752% that something will hit it all 3 turns. So there's a 37.3248% chance that at least 1 move will miss out of 3 turns of sub.

Taking advantage of replacing Brightpowder with Leftovers, allowing 4 substitutes with the slight heal, you will have 1 - (.8 x .8 x .8 x .8) = 59.04% of hitting all 3 turns, which is 40.96% chance of having the opponent missing at least 1 move. This is actually even better than the Brightpowder idea really, but of course, it leaves you with less HP after 4 Subs and the Leftover on an Item Claused game.

So yes, in general, it has a 37-41% chance of missing... Not 2%.
 
1059860 said:
Your math is wrong. All you need is one miss, but your calculation shows the % possibility of missing all 3 turns. There would be 1 - (.72 x .72 x .72) = 62.6752% that something will hit it all 3 turns. So there's a 37.3248% chance that at least 1 move will miss out of 3 turns of sub.

Taking advantage of replacing Brightpowder with Leftovers, allowing 4 substitutes with the slight heal, you will have 1 - (.8 x .8 x .8 x .8) = 59.04% of hitting all 3 turns, which is 40.96% chance of having the opponent missing at least 1 move. This is actually even better than the Brightpowder idea really, but of course, it leaves you with less HP after 4 Subs and the Leftover on an Item Claused game.

So yes, in general, it has a 37-41% chance of missing... Not 2%.
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Oh yeah, sorry about that error. I just did the calcs as if Garchomp was trying to get three SDs.
 
Brawlex said:
Well, it has no counters like many OU pokes, it just depends on the set, and I don't think it should be uber, but we can test it...
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Actually, he's been tested since D/P came out. Unless you mean "but we can ban it temporarily just to see how the metagame changes"...
 
Meh, I think people are getting a little crazy asking for the banning of all sandstorm pokes or pokes the use sand veil. You guys could make another thread going over why the trait Sandstream is broken or why Tyranitar is broken, but I don't find Sandstream to be the case here (its not the sole reason Garchomp's broken).

And in regards to Sand Veil, all those other pokemon really really suck with it (or just suck in general). The only argument I see is that Gliscor kind of benefits from it, but it doesn't have nearly the offensive prowess to start sweeping at a moment's notice, or scare away common phazers. So again, I don't think that Sand Veil in itself is a broken trait on THOSE pokemon.

Garchomp awesome defenses, offenses, speed, typing and Sand Veil make it broken. Its literally the best overall pokemon in OU.
 
What is a Jibaku?
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Jibaku is a 5 PP Move, 200 Base power, Halves the opponent's defense upon usage, and causes the user to faint. It can be maxed out at 8 PP, and is a normal type. Does not affect ghosts, but it does with Foresight or Odor Sleuth. Snorlax is the strongest user of this.

I think what confuses people is the poll question. Your current poll question says that "should it be tested out of OU?" Well anything should really be tested out of OU. However, it does not ask the audience if Chomp should be uber or not
 
Brawlex: He says that it is easily countered. I want to know how he does it. I mean if it is so damn easy to counter then I want to know the secret.
 
Jibaku said:
Jibaku is a 5 PP Move, 200 Base power, Halves the opponent's defense upon usage, and causes the user to faint. It can be maxed out at 8 PP, and is a normal type. Does not affect ghosts, but it does with Foresight or Odor Sleuth. Snorlax is the strongest user of this.
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SelfDestruct...
 
expert belt weavile. garchomp = owned. unless it misses, and that's up to the garchomp trainer to really decide if i wants to stay in or not.

how is ice shard weavile overcentralizing? uh, massive STAB priority move is overcentralizing?
 
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