Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[awyp]

Lately I’ve found that I’ve been using volcanion on like 90% of my teams and it’s just a really good glue pokemon. Good against rain, against half of the main sun core, and just a good bulky Pokémon in general. Has anyone else found success with it cause I don’t see it much on ladder atm

I've seen it I think it has a very valuable niche, provides a good bulk overall, glues in really nice for a Water Absorb mon with a 4x resist to Fire, Steel, and Ice. My biggest issue with it is what the preferred set currently is, Heavy Duty Boots, Specs, Scarf? My problem with Scarf is you probably have to run Timid based on how fast everything is 239 x 1.5 = 358 262 x 1.5 = 393, once Zama / Pao gets banned, the scarf set will sit very nicely in terms of speed control. I personally prefer the Choice Specs set.

 

[coral fan]

Lately I’ve found that I’ve been using volcanion on like 90% of my teams and it’s just a really good glue pokemon. Good against rain, against half of the main sun core, and just a good bulky Pokémon in general. Has anyone else found success with it cause I don’t see it much on ladder atm

yep im using it on my hazardstack bo team. i think its a great mon for the reasons you're saying.

I've seen it I think it has a very valuable niche, provides a good bulk overall, glues in really nice for a Water Absorb mon with a 4x resist to Fire, Steel, and Ice. My biggest issue with it is what the preferred set currently is, Heavy Duty Boots, Specs, Scarf? My problem with Scarf is you probably have to run Timid based on how fast everything is 239 x 1.5 = 358 262 x 1.5 = 393, once Zama / Pao gets banned, the scarf set will sit very nicely in terms of speed control. I personally prefer the Choice Specs set.

im using scarf, i did expect pao and zama-c to get banned today but regardless i still think it's pretty good esp. with spikes support, there's a lot of mons around the 220-328 speed range (tusk/tran/zap/ghold/lando/shifu) and just outspeeding those is great.

 

[Ctann]

Question: so it’s very clear that CP and maybe something else might be going as early as within a week. But those things are kinda broken with or without support, aren’t they?

however… from the new Pokémon’s including ursaluna and sneasler. It would be nice if they had a little more time to be played with in OU.

they really toe the line of OP or not OP, but the meta might simply need to adapt, like walking wake.

walking wake needed sun to truly shine. Most people agreed ursaluna needed trick room to really boom, and sneasler needs something to get rid of it’s item reliably.

magearna is just literally the most ridiculous combination of bulk, typing, ability, stats, movepool. You really don’t get that with these newer things that don’t have a similar precedent. They’re much easier to play around. We very clearly know that mag, CP are beyond broken.

anyone who’s been playing Luna and sneasler know their limitations, so it would be nice to see them played with more before any major decision.

Also, is fishing for dire claw cheese worth it when you can simply run coverage or gunk shot for those same situations? it really feels like the anti-sneasler sentiment isn’t considering the fact that the dire claw hax sounds much worse in theory than it’s playing out in reality.

just remember lads, every Pokémon poisoned by poison touch is one more Pokémon immune to sleep. For the unburden set, just remember that sleeping a Pokémon when you’re at +2, is effectively equivalent to flinching them, since most checks are going to be 2 or 3hkoed by a +2 sneasler anyway. This is a big part of why the reality isn’t as bad as it sounds when you first think of it.

Also, Ursaluna hasn’t even been experimented with outside of its flame orb set too much. It might need to adapt when gambit usage starts to rise again, since they speed tie.

 

[ant4456]

I think some people are missing the point. I don't think most people are criticizing the council, and certainly not people like Finch or ausma who are consistently active in discussion and reasoning - much the opposite, we appreciate those people *especially*. In fact, I think most people are mostly okay with most of the votes especially with further action and a survey on the horizon. I just think it would be nice for more people on the "making decisions team" to more actively make the reasons they make those decisions known, especially against fairly unanimous public opinion (ZamaC/Chien being broken have been like 80% held beliefs from what I've seen)

I think it'd be a good standard if every member of the council was to write something about why they made their decision. Doesn't need to be long, even just a sentence or two. Put it into a spreadsheet or something so it's more readable, and not necessarily in the main forum post itself (that'd be too much). I feel like if you can keep up with a Pokemon metagame enough to make decisions on them, you can write a sentence or two on why you made those decisions.

Not as a policy or anything, likely, but would that not be good practice for transparency?

 

[Garance]

I'm pretty pissed of the reaction of some players here. The only reason you are shitting on Finchinator is because he is on the front line here on the thread. A lot of people seems to forget they are 10 in the council and Finch is not deciding alone.
We had a lot of tiering surveys, more than ever, a lot of actions, radar posts, 2 mons banned in less than a week, and people still continue to be mad.

When they are quickbanning you are mad, when they are not, you are mad too.

Regieleki and Mag were overwhelming in the tier and they acted fast. About Chien-Pao it's really complicated but remember the suspect was pretty close. A lot of people were talking about the Zamas way before they decided to unban them, and a lot of us still have a lot of different opinions about these mons and the council votes are pretty clear about it.
I think time is our better ally and we should not precipitate things.

Just appreciate the fact these people are taking their time for you. And get mad at FlamingVictini for his disastrous opinions. Jk be nice

 

[Crimson Chris]

So to open some discussion.

Which HOME Pokemon do you see staying OU if;

1) Things stay as is and only Mag is banned.
2) Only Pao and Zama C get banned afterwards.
3) Everything on the radar gets banned.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

So to open some discussion.

Which HOME Pokemon do you see staying OU if;

1) Things stay as is and only Mag is banned.
2) Only Pao and Zama C get banned afterwards.
3) Everything on the radar gets banned.

Every other mon from HOME

Well, all except the non Samurott Hisuian starters, Hisuian Goodra and Electrode, the Galarian birds and maybe Hoopa (and the OG Kanto mons and their regional forms). The others I'm not sure

 

[Daytime_lunar]

My biggest issue with it is what the preferred set currently is, Heavy Duty Boots, Specs, Scarf? My problem with Scarf is you probably have to run Timid based on how fast everything is 239 x 1.5 = 358 262 x 1.5 = 393, once Zama / Pao gets banned, the scarf set will sit very nicely in terms of speed control. I personally prefer the Choice Specs set.

I use a AOA boots set myself. Usually serves me well with dual stabs, earth power, and then sludge bomb is sorta a filler move. It does help with surprising unsuspecting valiants though.

 

[coral fan]

imo this is where the home mons will end up

Probably Uber


OU, maybe Uber


OU


OU, maybe UU


Probably UU/UUBL
​

 

[Crimson Chris]

imo this is where the home mons will end up

Probably Uber


OU, maybe Uber


OU


OU, maybe UU


Probably UU/UUBL
​

What about Arcanine?

 

[TheTraininator]

Since we’ve established that future tiering surveys and quickbans are presumably going to be coming in the near future anyway, I’d rather not focus too much on what didn’t get banned and instead talk about how the tier is going to be now that Magearna got banned. Specifically this is a good chance to evaluate Ursaluna since one of its best Trick Room buddies just got the boot.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

imo this is where the home mons will end up

Probably Uber


OU, maybe Uber


OU


OU, maybe UU


Probably UU/UUBL
​

i like how avalugg and carbink aren't even on the list

 

[coral fan]

What about Arcanine?

yeah it's probably in that bottom tier. forgot about him. not a great mon but usable and a fan favourite so it'll get some usage.

i like how avalugg and carbink aren't even on the list

because they suck. i excluded a bunch of mons like overqwil, azelf, diancie, and zarude, too, just because i don't think it's realistic to expect them to make the usage cutoff. they might have niches just not OU material

 

[Crimson Chris]

Bruh, I forgot Carbink even came back lmao

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Here's my guess

UBER


POSSIBLE UBER


OU


POSSIBLE OU/UUBL


LOWER THAN UU
Everything else


I feel like many can agree with this stance

 

[Ctann]

Just gonna leave this gif of mag surviving and kissing away 3 strong close combats

mag ain’t even in the same conversation as the rest lol.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Bruh, I forgot Carbink even came back lmao

so did game freak

because they suck. i excluded a bunch of mons like overqwil, azelf, diancie, and zarude, too, just because i don't think it's realistic to expect them to make the usage cutoff. they might have niches just not OU material

don't you diss my boy overqwil like that, he's definitely ou material

 

[coral fan]

Here's my guess

UBER


POSSIBLE UBER


OU


POSSIBLE OU/UUBL


LOWER THAN UU
Everything else


I feel like many can agree with this stance

Enamorus should at least be in "Possible". ive seen a bunch of them on ladder recently - flying is great for switching to grounds, and EP is great coverage. i don't agree with claims that it's completely outclassed by valiant - even if its usage is lower it won't be far behind .

View attachment 522952

Just gonna leave this gif of mag surviving and kissing away 3 strong close combats

mag ain’t even in the same conversation as the rest lol.

at least she's gone now, i don't wanna have to see her ever again

don't you diss my boy overqwil like that, he's definitely ou material

i wish

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Enamorus should at least be in "Possible". ive seen a bunch of them on ladder recently - flying is great for switching to grounds, and EP is great coverage. i don't agree with claims that it's completely outclassed by valiant - even if its usage is lower it won't be far behind .

I didn't see any so I'm not sure. Honesty, Zapdos might not be OU due to power creep or something. A mon that is usually OU

 

[Ctann]

To all the fellow CP enjoyers, what’s your adaptations for the coming week’s meta? I’m curious if 4A HDB is a green light now

for the CP haters, how are you planning to deal with it now?

I’m relying on scarfs, positioning, reading plays, and surprise Tera’s

 

[TCTphantom]

imo this is where the home mons will end up

Probably Uber


OU, maybe Uber


OU


OU, maybe UU


Probably UU/UUBL
​

I’d move Sneasler, Hoopa U, Volcanion, and Torn T up. Id move Samurott H and Hero Zamazenta down.

 

[SwaggySammy44]

because they suck. i excluded a bunch of mons like overqwil, azelf, diancie, and zarude, too, just because i don't think it's realistic to expect them to make the usage cutoff. they might have niches just not OU material

What about Braviary-H? I think CM+Esper wing could be a solid win con.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

To all the fellow CP enjoyers,

please rephrase

 

[AM]

To all the fellow CP enjoyers, what’s your adaptations for the coming week’s meta? I’m curious if 4A HDB is a green light now

for the CP haters, how are you planning to deal with it now?

I’m relying on scarfs, positioning, reading plays, and surprise Tera’s

Scarf Shifu and a bunch of random priority, rocky helmet mons. Think Pao was/is more oppressive than Mag personally, cause covering everything else feels more realistic until you have to try and cover Pao too. Mag is also gone and was the better non meme check to it so yeah.

I gave it the benefit of the doubt, but unless all the other stuff goes it should be the first to leave of the batch.

What about Braviary-H? I think CM+Esper wing could be a solid win con.

Specs Tinted the only good set.

 

[kosecant]

To all the fellow CP enjoyers, what’s your adaptations for the coming week’s meta? I’m curious if 4A HDB is a green light now

for the CP haters, how are you planning to deal with it now?

I’m relying on scarfs, positioning, reading plays, and surprise Tera’s

This is where I’m gonna have to draw the line

please rephrase

I was gonna say lmao, we need a better abbreviation